Latest / Ask the Lawyer / 09/11/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton

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09/11/2025 Ask the Lawyer with Tom Peyton · Ask the Lawyer

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  Speaker 1: Unlock your dream property with Meeks Realty Group, where Rich
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  Speaker 1: residential or commercial. We've got Charleston to Huntington covered. Your
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  Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
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  Speaker 2: necessarily reflect the views and opinions of five eight wchs
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  Speaker 2: it's employees or WVRC media.
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  Speaker 3: Of courts, Oh Creator differ equal.
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  Speaker 2: Were nass come here in a cape ray can rocks
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  Speaker 2: cops alone.
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  Speaker 4: Well, you can put the law on your side. This morning.
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  Speaker 4: It's time to talk to the Payton Law Firm. Tom
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  Speaker 4: Payton is in studio with us this morning, and you
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  Speaker 4: can give us a call. Three zero four three four
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  Speaker 4: five fifty eight fifty eight is a number. Three zero
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  Speaker 4: four three four five fifty eight fifty eight. You can
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  Speaker 4: tach threes are A four nine three five five zers
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  Speaker 4: are eight Payton Law Firm dot Com. Tom, Good morning,
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  Speaker 4: How you doing this morning?
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  Speaker 5: I'm doing okay. How you doing? Dale Man?
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  Speaker 4: I have no complaints. I was just talking to Dave
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  Speaker 4: Weekly yesterday and looking back a week and looking forward
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  Speaker 4: a week as much as I can. As far as
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  Speaker 4: the weather goes, this is one of the best two
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  Speaker 4: week stretches of weather that I can remember, basically ever.
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  Speaker 4: I mean we're talking like right around like the seventy nine,
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  Speaker 4: eighty degree not a lot of rain, nice mild evenings.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, it's been a it's such, it's pretty nice.
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  Speaker 4: It's pretty nice.
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  Speaker 6: You don't have to worry about rain if you got
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  Speaker 6: an activity outside. I'm gonna probably do some mountain biking
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  Speaker 6: myself up on the Meeks Trails on the evening and
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  Speaker 6: no worries about thunderstorms and being rained out. And just
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  Speaker 6: when you do outdoor strenuous activities, you do notice just
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  Speaker 6: going down from eighty five degrees to seventy five and
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  Speaker 6: the lower humidity exercises a lot easier and a lot
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  Speaker 6: more fun.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: Great time of year. Yeah, except for football season isn't
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  Speaker 6: going the way I thought.
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  Speaker 5: I don't know.
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  Speaker 6: I would like to invert my prediction on the mounts
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  Speaker 6: if I could. I was a little too optimistic with
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  Speaker 6: my nine and three and maybe looking more like a
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  Speaker 6: three to nine.
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  Speaker 5: But I don't know, we'll see.
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  Speaker 6: I was at the Ohio game last week, and it
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  Speaker 6: was just one of those weird games you just I
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  Speaker 6: don't know for sure, but it had to be at
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  Speaker 6: least sixty percent Mountaineer fans there, probably, but it's a
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  Speaker 6: really small stadium. They only hold twenty four thousand, but
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  Speaker 6: they had some standing room only. I think they get
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  Speaker 6: up to twenty six plus. And that was the largest
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  Speaker 6: crowd ever to watch a game at Peedon Stadium. It
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  Speaker 6: overwhelmed the facilities a little bit, and they certainly could
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  Speaker 6: use an upgrade there. Yeah, sure at Peedon Stadium. But
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  Speaker 6: just one of those weird games where you know, just
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  Speaker 6: kind of waiting for the Mountaineers to get a break
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  Speaker 6: and they never did and the ball bounced the right way.
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  Speaker 6: But Ohio, give them credit because they mean they looked
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  Speaker 6: looked good. They were. We didn't look overwhelmingly stronger or
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  Speaker 6: faster than them, which you think the Mountaineers would be.
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  Speaker 6: And of course they caught us at a you know,
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  Speaker 6: a time when we got the coach turned over and
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  Speaker 6: all new players, so they got us at the right
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  Speaker 6: time to be playing down there. And you know, of
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  Speaker 6: course I went to think all but one of the
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  Speaker 6: games when Marshall and w actually played in football, and
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  Speaker 6: it was other than ninety seven when Randy Moss was
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  Speaker 6: there in Pittington and they traveled to Morgantown. That was
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  Speaker 6: a great game. Remember the Mountaineers were up twenty eight three,
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  Speaker 6: Marshall came back to the lead. That was a heck
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  Speaker 6: of a game. Then we had some good games in
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  Speaker 6: the series in the two thousands, but it just happened
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  Speaker 6: to hit. I mean any game that was good during
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  Speaker 6: that series. What just happened. Marshall got lucky because they
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  Speaker 6: that was some of their underperforming years and it just
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  Speaker 6: happened to hit on W's really good years, Genie Smith
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  Speaker 6: and those whole cast of characters. So it just didn't
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  Speaker 6: I wish they would play again, Chris. It makes you
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  Speaker 6: beg the question. If it's two and one and W's
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  Speaker 6: won to Ohio, why can't they come to Huntington and
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  Speaker 6: do it too, and the.
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  Speaker 5: Three and one like we did before.
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  Speaker 4: There's I don't understand. There's a lot of stuffeople try
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  Speaker 4: to explain it to me before. I don't real understand everything.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, it may break down into money or something, but uh,
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  Speaker 6: but we'll see what happens this weekend. I'm I'm heading
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  Speaker 6: the Baton Rouge to watch the l s U Tagers
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  Speaker 6: take on, uh, the Florida Gators, and we'll see.
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  Speaker 4: Florida might be right for a for a knockoff week.
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  Speaker 5: So to South Florida, I got upset. Unfortunately.
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  Speaker 6: I was hoping they would still be undefeated coming in.
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  Speaker 6: But but I'll be watching the Mountaineers from Baton Rouge
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  Speaker 6: and rotting them on. And you know, I don't you
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  Speaker 6: never know.
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  Speaker 5: It's pit game.
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  Speaker 6: You just kind of throw everything out the window here.
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  Speaker 6: I'm not I don't even know what the spread is.
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  Speaker 6: I didn't check. I'm sure the Mountaineers I think, yeah,
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  Speaker 6: But you know it's gonna be a Rockus crowd. I
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  Speaker 6: mean I was able to unload my tickets and blue
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  Speaker 6: lot pass pretty easily. And uh, I'm sure it's it's
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  Speaker 6: label to sell out. I'm sure it will be packed.
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  Speaker 6: So I don't know. I might still hang in there
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  Speaker 6: and predict a Mountaineer win for that when anything, anything
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  Speaker 6: can happen in that game. I think going the rest
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  Speaker 6: of the seas and I think we're going to have
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  Speaker 6: we get into the Big twelve, We're gonna have some real.
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  Speaker 4: The question is going to be you you would assume
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  Speaker 4: that a team with with the new coach, new coaching staff,
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  Speaker 4: and so many new players, they'll get progressively better as
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  Speaker 4: the season. The end product should be much better than
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  Speaker 4: the than the start products. So the question is going
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  Speaker 4: to be as it starts to cross over, how many
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  Speaker 4: games can they win before they before they get efficient.
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  Speaker 4: Because you start off the season with Kansas, Utah, b
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  Speaker 4: y U, and U c F and then TCU. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: I'm not sure where B y U and U c
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  Speaker 4: F is going to be, but Utah is pretty good.
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  Speaker 4: Kansas has some players that's that's trouble, and TCUs look
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  Speaker 4: pretty good. Yeah, they're not real easy start to the season.
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  Speaker 4: None of them are walkovers.
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  Speaker 6: And in the Big Twelve, though, I'll be looking for
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  Speaker 6: a win because it's going to be a I think
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  Speaker 6: every is fairly comparable in the league.
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  Speaker 5: So we'll see how it progresses.
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  Speaker 6: You know, Rich Rogg's gonna be there for the long haul,
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  Speaker 6: I think, and hopefully he can he can turn it
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  Speaker 6: around and give him a year or two to get
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  Speaker 6: his style players in there, and we'll we'll see how
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  Speaker 6: it goes. But lots of things going on in the
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  Speaker 6: national level today, and of course we have, but it's
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  Speaker 6: just a murder assassination. Yesterday. If Charlie Kirk I didn't
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  Speaker 6: know who he was, I think I've seen him around
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  Speaker 6: somewhere on the news or something, and it's just obviously
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  Speaker 6: extremely sad when somebody just gets I an innocent person
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  Speaker 6: getting killed like that.
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  Speaker 5: I really hope.
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  Speaker 6: I guess I had two different suspects in custody yesterday,
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  Speaker 6: neither of which I mean, I guess they obviously.
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  Speaker 4: Were not involved, because they were really first, I was
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  Speaker 4: like a local homeless guy, based.
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  Speaker 5: Fairly short interrogations and cut him loose. And you know, a.
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  Speaker 6: Lot of the politicians jump right on it, and which
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  Speaker 6: I think is kind of important to, you know, spend
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  Speaker 6: it in a way to politicize that we don't know
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  Speaker 6: anything about the motive of the shooter.
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  Speaker 4: I don't.
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  Speaker 6: Know enough about firearms and marksmanship to determine whether that distance,
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  Speaker 6: that type of one shot lethal shot from that distance
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  Speaker 6: if you have to be particularly skilled, or if it
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  Speaker 6: wasn't that far away and just kind of your average
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  Speaker 6: skilled hunter could make that shot. So it'll be really
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  Speaker 6: you know, I really hope they of course find the
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  Speaker 6: person and punish them. But I also really hope they
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  Speaker 6: find them and can capture them alive so we can
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  Speaker 6: maybe get true information about the motive, because this is
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  Speaker 6: just speculation at this point. I mean we're assuming it's
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  Speaker 6: political because he was a kind of a political pundits.
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  Speaker 6: I mean they've been comparing him to Rush Limball or
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  Speaker 6: something like that, which Russia Limball is an entertainer. But
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  Speaker 6: I really hope they find the murderer alive and so
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  Speaker 6: we can get some information and figure out what really
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  Speaker 6: happened here, because there's a lot of dynamics in this
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  Speaker 6: day and age, and really it's just rank speculation to
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  Speaker 6: say what the motive was. But sort of awful situation.
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  Speaker 6: We had another I think a school shooting in Colorado
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  Speaker 6: today and it's just not good Somber day and is
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  Speaker 6: not eleven as well.
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  Speaker 5: Just oh hum.
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  Speaker 6: But we've had some interesting I guess here locally. Uh,
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  Speaker 6: not to keep bringing everybody down, but we had the
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  Speaker 6: uh it was actually we had the Cayden Martin was
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  Speaker 6: his name, the young man that was killed at the
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  Speaker 6: vape shop innocent clerk was maybe last year, and it
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  Speaker 6: was two teenagers that were involved, and it appeared mister
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  Speaker 6: Martin was complicit in their request. It was a robbery
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  Speaker 6: attempt to get vapes or some kind of marijuana paraphernalia
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  Speaker 6: or something. And and even though he complied, one of
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  Speaker 6: the boys shot him, killed him. Uh, the one who
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  Speaker 6: pulled the trigger entered it was found guilty. I think
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  Speaker 6: he ended up play agreement and he ended up. But
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  Speaker 6: the other person, the other boy that was involved, I
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  Speaker 6: don't think he went into the vape shop, but he
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  Speaker 6: was standing out front, and I think they had a
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  Speaker 6: surveillance video of him maybe pulling open the door and
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  Speaker 6: peeking in with some kind of communication. He did not interruptlate.
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  Speaker 6: So they had to trial last week and the jury
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  Speaker 6: came back this week. And even though he didn't there
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  Speaker 6: wasn't evidence he had a gun, there wasn't evidence that
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  Speaker 6: he actually did the shooting. He was still found guilty
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  Speaker 6: of first degree murder. So how can that happen when
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  Speaker 6: he didn't actually he did not kill anyone. So there's
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  Speaker 6: a couple kind of legal principles there that apply which
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  Speaker 6: gave this defendant some defense. Obviously it didn't didn't work
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  Speaker 6: or resonate with the jurors, but first principles fell any murder,
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  Speaker 6: so and I think it's probably the law in all states.
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  Speaker 6: It's a state law. It could be different in other states,
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  Speaker 6: but certainly in West Virginia. If a a felony is
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  Speaker 6: being committed and during the commission of that crime, someone dies,
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  Speaker 6: the perpetrators of that crime can be charged with first
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  Speaker 6: degree murder. And the kind of weird example or outside
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  Speaker 6: the box example is a person goes to commit a
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  Speaker 6: robber let's and a robbery versus a burglary or larcenae,
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  Speaker 6: which is stealing. Robbery involves a threat of violence or
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  Speaker 6: physical harm to steal something from another person. So go
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  Speaker 6: in and say, somebody has a knife and goes into
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  Speaker 6: a local convenience store or give me all your lottery
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  Speaker 6: tickets and cigarettes or something. And I've seen that, just
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  Speaker 6: ridiculous stuff. And the clerk goes down to get the
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  Speaker 6: cigarettes and they hey, they pull out a gun and
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  Speaker 6: the guy with a knife threatens him again, and so
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  Speaker 6: they shoot at the robber with the knife.
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  Speaker 5: Well they don't that person.
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  Speaker 6: Let's say it was even supposed to be a warning
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  Speaker 6: shot to run them off. Well, there's a customer in
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  Speaker 6: the back of the home. Customer gets shot, hit in
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  Speaker 6: the head, killed. That person with a knife can then
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  Speaker 6: be charged with first degree murder because during the commission
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  Speaker 6: of the crime, someone was killed as a result, even
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  Speaker 6: though that person never even attempted to kill another person.
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  Speaker 6: And so you have that principle at play here, and
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  Speaker 6: you say, well, he wasn't even in the store. But
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  Speaker 6: then in West Virginia, you can also be convicted as
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  Speaker 6: if you were the actual perpetrator if you're what's called
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: a principle in the second degree, meaning if you have
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  Speaker 6: active involvement in the execution of the crime a lookout
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  Speaker 6: for example, and there's some evidence that you had intent
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  Speaker 6: along with the primary perpetrator to commit this felony, then
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  Speaker 6: you can be convicted of the felony and then felony murders.
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  Speaker 6: So the prosecutor was able to successfully kind of connect
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  Speaker 6: those dots. It's a little complicated law, but the jury
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: would have been instructed on all of that. And then
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  Speaker 6: they ended up finding this young man guilty. And there
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  Speaker 6: was evidence that it just callous and did steal some very.
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  Speaker 5: Low value items.
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  Speaker 6: There was some evidence that they even got like some
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: kind of ice cream bars or something. And then of
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: course after and it was some other evidence entered about
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: other bad acts that happened. You know, they apparently these two,
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  Speaker 6: according to the evidence, had participated in some other I
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  Speaker 6: think it was attempted carjacking or something using the gun
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: and something else. So they'd been on a little crime spree.
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  Speaker 6: But so that's you know, that person is off the
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  Speaker 6: streets at least. I think when they're a juvenile moved
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: to adult status, they will have an opportunity for per
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: sometime in the long time, in the future, quite a
• 13:02
  Speaker 6: number of years. But that was the local news this week.
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  Speaker 5: And then.
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  Speaker 6: Some interesting US Supreme Court rulings, and I find this
• 13:14
  Speaker 6: one be interesting to see what the listeners think about it.
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  Speaker 6: But you know, in these ice raids or stops, and
• 13:23
  Speaker 6: this one arose out of California and the Los Angeles area,
• 13:26
  Speaker 6: a trial court federal judge had ruled that you can't
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: detain people in America for the purpose of investigating their
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: immigration status if that stop is based solely on various
• 13:51
  Speaker 6: factors race, maybe language, where they work. And so the
• 14:02
  Speaker 6: judge ordered, you know, you're prohibited going forward from using
• 14:07
  Speaker 6: these what would without data and background information would be
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: just innocuous things like well, you work at a at
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  Speaker 6: a farm, or you work at a particular type of
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  Speaker 6: factory or car wash was an examples.
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  Speaker 5: And you.
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  Speaker 6: Are Hispanic and you don't speak English, so therefore we
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  Speaker 6: can stop you and basically interrogate you or detain you
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  Speaker 6: for a period of time to determine whether you are
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: here legally or not. And the trial court said no, preliminarily,
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  Speaker 6: until we decide this case, you can't stop folks based
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: on those factors alone. And then that one shot up
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: to the US Supreme Court and then was ruled on
• 14:55
  Speaker 6: I think late last week, and Justice Kavanaugh wrote, wrote
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: the onion, it's fairly short. It's four or five pages.
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  Speaker 6: I didn't there's a dissenting opinion. That's rather lengthy. But
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: Justice Kavanaugh rule overturned dipluminary injunction and said no, no,
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: a couple of reasons you can't. First, he found that, well,
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  Speaker 6: I'm not sure this person even has standing to bring
• 15:25
  Speaker 6: this case because this has already happened in the past,
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: and there's no real prospect that this is going to
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: happen again to this person in the future, and so
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: there's not any current controversy going on, which I don't
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: know that I agree with that that reasoning.
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  Speaker 4: But then he went on.
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: And so the standard is under the immigration Statute is
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: if you have if the government has reasonable suspicion to
• 15:49
  Speaker 6: believe that a person is not here legally in the country,
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: then they can make a stop to investigate whether that
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: person is here legally or not. And essentially what Justice
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: Kavanaugh did was re cited statistics. His his data indicated
• 16:13
  Speaker 6: that in the Los Angeles area there might be as
• 16:15
  Speaker 6: much as ten percent of the population that's very illegally
• 16:19
  Speaker 6: and then he went on to say, well, you know
• 16:23
  Speaker 6: a lot of these folks work in industries that don't
• 16:26
  Speaker 6: necessarily require the proper paperwork, like if you go, I
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: don't know if we see it. I think it's mandated
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: and we don't see it. Maybe with every employer mustream,
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: but you fell on an I nine as an prospect
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: of employee, and that's your citizenship declaration when you get
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: a job. And he was saying these particular industries, they're
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: significant data indicating that folks that are here unlawfully in
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: the country get these jobs because they don't generally require paperwork.
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: They're liberal in their paperwork, and so we see a
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  Speaker 6: lot of folks that are here legally in those particular industries.
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  Speaker 6: Many of them are from South America, south of the border,
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: so you know, statistically it's more likely that somebody who
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  Speaker 6: doesn't speak English well or is a particular color of
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  Speaker 6: their skin, it makes it more likely that they could
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: be legal immigrants. And what he said was that you
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: have to use the totality of the circumstances. He ruled
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: that you can't use race alone, but you can use
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: all of the factors that the district court said you
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: couldn't use, as long as that those factors are part
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: of the totality of the circumstances, which I found interesting
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: that he relied on statistics and other information, but at
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: the same time, we have a case that says you
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: can't really rely upon that when you're doing analysis of
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: whether somebody qualifies to be admitted to a college or university.
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  Speaker 5: That was the ruling there.
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  Speaker 6: Kind of interesting, it's interesting, yeah, I mean, it's it's
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: kind of a it's not apples to apples necessarily, but
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: you know, we'll we'll see how that plays out.
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  Speaker 5: And his other reasoning was, well, this is a short stop.
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  Speaker 6: It's just it's a very it's not an arrest, it's
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: a it's a it's a reasonable suspicion stop. So it's brief,
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  Speaker 6: it's just long enough to determine, you know, if that
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: person can.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what.
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: I don't know how you prove on the spot that
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: you're a here lawfully. I guess if you have your
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: papers on you all the time then that would be
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: one way to do it. And and of course, uh,
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: we've seen a lot of arrests that are ultimately of
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: folks who are here legally or allowed to be in the
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: country after the after the stop, So we'll see how
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: that plays out. It's just, you know, it's an interesting dynamic.
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: I mean, what he said kind of makes sense. At
• 19:05
  Speaker 6: the same time, as a general matter, under the law,
• 19:10
  Speaker 6: you can't racially profile and use other otherwise lawful activities
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: as a reason for the government to detain somebody. And
• 19:24
  Speaker 6: you know, if I was Hispanic and a citizen, and
• 19:27
  Speaker 6: I lived in Los Angeles and it's happened to work
• 19:31
  Speaker 6: in one of these jobs, I would disagree with the ruling.
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: I mean, knowing that every day I go to work,
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: I could be detained. And if I get an ICE
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: agent who doesn't believe me when I tell him I'm
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: a citizen, I could then be detained even further and
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: go through some bogged down process where we don't have
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: enough judges and government officials to make a neutral determination
• 19:55
  Speaker 6: whether you're here legally or not. I mean that's concerning,
• 19:58
  Speaker 6: that would be concerning to me. It's not gonna affect
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: me personally here, but we'll see. But he Coavin Hall
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: pretty well said, you know, that's the merits of the case,
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: and I would rule that way when it gets Actually
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: this was only about a preliminary injunction, but ultimately the
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: the final conclusion will end up most likely at the u. S.
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: Supreme Court, and he pretty much as long as these
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: same justices are there, that's going to be the ruling.
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: So that.
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: Vice officers can now use race language where a person
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: works as factors to detain somebody. That's a little bit
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: different than what we've seen in the past. There's totality
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: of the circumstances type standard. That's language that's used in
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: a lot of cases and reasonable suspicion is in the
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: Statute on that applies to immigration and status citizenship status.
• 20:59
  Speaker 6: But it's all so language. It's used a lot in
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: the law. And for example, if you are getting if
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: an officer wants to pull over your vehicle, they have
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: to have some reasonable, articulable suspicion that they've seen driving
• 21:15
  Speaker 6: left of center or a license plate that has a
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: bad registration. I can't just pull you over, you know,
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: and you take what just as Kavanaugh said, well, okay, so.
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: If you.
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: If you have a person who's African American driving and
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: a part of town that aren't a lot of African
• 21:34
  Speaker 6: Americans in and to beat up car and see some
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: kind of weird sticker on it, maybe asparage as the
• 21:43
  Speaker 6: police or something, is that Well, there's a lot of
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: I mean, an officer reasonable that compared with everything I
• 21:51
  Speaker 6: know about people that commit crimes. I'm going to stop
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: that vehicle now, and I think that's generally prohibited because
• 21:58
  Speaker 6: it's just not objective evidence of any crime. So we'll
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: see how Justice Kavanaugh is ruling and the ultimate ruling
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: gets parlayed into other aspects of our lives.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: Does that allow for We've talked before on this program
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: about how sometimes using vague language allows for an exercise
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: of bad faith arguments? Is that a little bit of
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: a concern, like the delusion of reasonable? You know what
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: means reasonable and how you interpret that into pulling someone
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: over and every reason. I'm not sure of the initial
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: circumstances behind it, but I have one anecdotal situation of
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: something not super close to me, but somebody I know
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: relatively well. When I lived in Michigan, she worked as
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: a border for me. A lady who was originally from
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Chile who immigrated the United States, became a citizen, and
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: her life goal basically was bringing over her family and
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: also making them into citizens. Completely above board. She really
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: dislikes illegal immigrants, you know. She's a very patriotic American,
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: came over here and very strong end to that. However,
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: when all this first started happying, she somehow got caught
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: up in something. She got pulled over. The local news
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: did like a little story on it. She wasn't guilty
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: of anything. She never even got She was detained on
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: this side of the street for a little while, but
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: the news caught window early on. It got on the news,
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: her face got all over everything. She worked three jobs.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: One is a porter for the company I used to
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: work for, One is a school lady lunch lady, and
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: one is a house cleaner where she had her own
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: business where she went around cleaning houses. She lost almost
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: all of her business from house cleaning because people thought
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: that they were employing an illegal immigrant at that point.
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: So yeah, a lot of it's the politicalization of it,
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: because when you have high ranking government officials holding guns
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: with photo shoots in front of everybody that's been detained,
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: and then your pictures in the news, and it's problematic.
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: Now back to your question about using broad terms like
• 23:45
  Speaker 6: a reasonable suspicion, I don't have any problem with that.
• 23:48
  Speaker 6: You have to do that because you can't. I mean,
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: you have to have broad terms because there's so many
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: different factual scenarios that it has to be applied to,
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: and you can certainly have differing opinions even by different
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: I mean, different judges could rule different ways on the
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: same set of facts, and that's why you have appeals.
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: It's interesting because you still have the Fourth Amendment protection
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: for all persons who are in the United States, and
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: we've talked about.
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: The exclusionary rule before.
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: So if I am detained and arrested and it turns
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: out that I committed a crime, but the only reason
• 24:28
  Speaker 6: they were able to got enough evidence that I committed
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: the crime was because of what they got from that
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: stop of me. They stopped me and then they did
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: a search and I had some contraband in my shoes,
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: sold my shoe or something, or then I confessed to
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: something for regular, real criminal activity. Then the remedy is, well,
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: Tom was stopped illegally, so you shouldn't even have had
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: him stopped, or once he explained the situation, that should
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: have dispelled your suspicions objectively, so he was. Then it
• 25:08
  Speaker 6: was an unreasonable seizure of mister Peyton. So what happens
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: then on regular crimes is you evidence. It's called the
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine, meaning everything gathered as
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: a result of that illegal stop, the contraband found and
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: that I had hidden in the sole of my shoe,
• 25:28
  Speaker 6: or the statements I made, is all thrown out of court.
• 25:32
  Speaker 6: And so oftentimes when that happens, it'll result in insufficient
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: evidence to convict, and whatever crime I committed was done
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: so case could be dismissed against me. And even though
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: I committed a crime, I'm free person. That's the law
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: of that case, and I can't be recharged by that
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: same government entity because there's not enough evidence. Now, when
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: you take that same scenario and say, well, how does
• 25:59
  Speaker 6: this exclusionary rule apply to somebody who is in the
• 26:03
  Speaker 6: country illegally. I mean, that's kind of like they're still
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: here illegally. Even if you say, all right, well they
• 26:11
  Speaker 6: were they were detained unlawfully against the United States Code
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: or the US Constitution, so we've got to let them go.
• 26:19
  Speaker 6: But they're still committing that continue. I mean, they're still
• 26:23
  Speaker 6: here in violation of the law. So it makes you
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: kind of wonder even if I think that's why the
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: district court judge made a very broad ruling saying you
• 26:32
  Speaker 6: can't use these factors in the future because there isn't
• 26:35
  Speaker 6: really I didn't see another remedy that would fix the
• 26:39
  Speaker 6: situation because once that person, let's say they used race
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: illegally as the only factor to stop somebody, and and
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: the and the person that's here illegally can prove that, okay,
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: well that that detention is dismissed, but you're still here illegally.
• 26:57
  Speaker 6: So I assume they could just be picked up again
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: based upon what information is now known.
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: And so it's not like a.
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: Criminal act in the example I gave, that's kind of
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: one and done. I mean, you you're still still committed
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: a crime, but you're not continuing to commit illegal activity.
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: It's in the past. So you di exclusionary rule works.
• 27:22
  Speaker 6: Doesn't really work for folks that are here illegally, and
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: so you know how that I've never seen it play
• 27:30
  Speaker 6: out in West Virginia and I've never been involved in
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: that as a lawyer, so I don't know how that
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: works for sure. But you know, to say, all right,
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: well you got to let this person go because you
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: use these illegal factors to.
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: Pick them up.
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: Well, then another ICE agent could just pick them up
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: the next day because they know.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: They're here, because then they have the actual information.
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah, then we have I'm not using race now now
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: we know that they're here illegally because we ran their
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: information and confirmed that they don't have legal status in
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: the US.
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: And so that's that's kind.
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: Of a I think that's why, because you don't get
• 28:01
  Speaker 6: rulings on an unlawful certain Caesar just says, you know,
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: very broadly, you can't stop based on these particular factors
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: in the future like that that covers the entire country.
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: I mean, you have to kind of analyze every case individually.
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: But there isn't really a remedy for it for somebody
• 28:22
  Speaker 6: who's here illegally because they're still here illegally even after
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: it happens. And so that's I think that was the reasoning.
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: But we'll see how that one plays out. That was
• 28:31
  Speaker 6: an interesting ruling by Judge of Kavanaugh. Justice Kavanaugh, and
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: he bade, but he pretty much said I or we
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: the majority will rule this way if it ever gets
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: to us. So I don't know if it'll just be
• 28:43
  Speaker 6: resolved now once it gets back down because the district
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: court judge's got to abide by the US Supreme Court's ruling,
• 28:51
  Speaker 6: or if it'll get up to the US Supreme Court
• 28:52
  Speaker 6: again and then we'll have a longer opinion with probably
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: the same reasoning.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: Very interesting. If you have any questions about the law
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: anything that we're talking about today, or you want to
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: put the power paytent on your side, you and give
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: us a call this morning. Three es are A four
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: three four five fifty to fifty eight is our number.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: Three zero four three four five fifty to fifteen. You
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: can text over questions if you'd like. Three zero four
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: nine three five five zero zero eight. We'll take a
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: break and be back right after this. You're listening to
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: ask the lawyer with the Payton Law Firm. Tom Payton
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: is here. More information online Paton Law Firm dot com
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: and Nitro West Virginia will take a break and be
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: Backwright after this. You're listening to a five adwc H's
• 29:22
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• 29:23
  Speaker 7: According to Feeding America, over seven million seniors nationwide where
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: food insecure in twenty twenty two. West Virginia is no different. Hi,
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: I'm Jason, President and CEO of Union Mission Ministries. For
• 29:35
  Speaker 7: one hundred and thirteen years, Union Mission has focused on
• 29:37
  Speaker 7: helping people in need. Right now, our senior citizens need
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: our help. That is why Union Mission is partnering with
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  Speaker 7: local senior living facilities to get food delivered directly to
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  Speaker 7: those in need. Will you help us reach more seniors?
• 29:50
  Speaker 7: Visit Union Mission dot com to learn more.
• 29:53
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• 30:01
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• 30:35
  Speaker 4: It's about eight minutes until the top of the hour.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: You're more than welcome to give us a call this morning.
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: Tom Payton is here from the Payton Law Firm or
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: information Online, Payton Lawfirm dot com, Payton Lawfirm dot com,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: p E Y t O N, Payton Lawfirroom dot com
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: and Nitro West Virginia. Give us all this morning. Three
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: zero four three four five fifty fifty eight three four
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: five fifty to fifty. That version of Country Roads always
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: makes me makes me want to talk a little slower
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: and bring things in a little nicer. It's Tomsing's my
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: brother in law.
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's how he's excellent guitar player.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: That's good stuff.
• 31:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah, we love that when that's our hold music at
• 31:02
  Speaker 6: the office. And yeah, I've been kind of a somber
• 31:06
  Speaker 6: morning here. But if you want to see a nice
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: office with well maintained building, with a nice lawn and
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: uh good furniture, nice artwork by our office Tornado one
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: First Avenue, night, Trev. And of course we talk about
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: what's on the news here this morning.
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: But if you have a question you can. Oh, we
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: have a call.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: I think so. I think we have a phone call
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: that came in before we go off the air. You
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: got into auto que here a caller. What's your first name?
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: It's Mike, Hey, Michael. What's your watch for Tom this morning?
• 31:43
  Speaker 9: Hey Coop, Hey Tom. I just wanted to thank Tom.
• 31:45
  Speaker 9: I had a question a couple of weeks ago about
• 31:47
  Speaker 9: a deed that had a incorrect name on it in
• 31:51
  Speaker 9: Kenall County Court, and I emailed Peyton Law firm and
• 31:56
  Speaker 9: probably within two hours, Tom had responded and helped me
• 32:00
  Speaker 9: out with that situation. And I just wanted to thank
• 32:02
  Speaker 9: you for your promp response.
• 32:03
  Speaker 8: Tom.
• 32:04
  Speaker 9: I appreciate it.
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks for the call too, Thanks
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: for listening much. Yeah, if you have a question, like
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: Mike ken, I think I remember that when you know
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: now that Canaw County is online at the record room.
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: A lot of times when I get a message from
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: the staff, I can just spend a minute and look
• 32:26
  Speaker 6: at what he was referencing. You know, used to be
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: at way you go, bring your deed in, let me
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: see you because it's really hard to comment on deeds
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: and legal documents without reading them myself, and so now
• 32:35
  Speaker 6: we can see them and answer a lot of those
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: basic questions. So it's really great they've got got it online.
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: It helps helps us help people, and that's what we
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: like to do. And of course, as Mike reference, we
• 32:46
  Speaker 6: do basic real estate, a state planning, uh, social care, disability,
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: but are kind of.
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: Bread and butter.
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: And what we really like to do is civil litigation,
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: so like trying cases going before jury's and we've had
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: a lot of success at it over the years. So
• 33:01
  Speaker 6: if you've been in a autobill accident or you have
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: a dispute with your insurance company, again we're we've got
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: multiple cases pending now about problems with folks heal damage
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: claims from the April hailstorms. And got another call.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we have another call. I slide that
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: in there. What's your name? Caller? You're on with Tom?
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: Just a couple of minutes left.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Okay, I'm sorry I waited. I was outside working. I
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: have a real quick question. Sure, all these commercials about
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: deeds stealing our house, stealing pay us, and we'll make
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: sure no one steals your house because all this information,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: as you just said, is online. I'll take your answer
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: off the air. Thank you.
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: Make sure. Yeah.
• 33:44
  Speaker 6: And I've had people ask me that I haven't seen
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: that in West Virginia. I mean I've seen fraudulent deeds before.
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: We had one at a state trooper come to my
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: office probably ten years ago and show us a deed.
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: I thought, well, let me look in a file. Well,
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: somebody had taken a deed from the courthouse and scanned
• 34:08
  Speaker 6: it somehow and superimposed a notary that worked at our
• 34:12
  Speaker 6: office the notary stamp. And then they won't record copies
• 34:16
  Speaker 6: at the record room of deeds. It has to be
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: an original signature. But they were able to you know,
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: your notary stamp these days is not in West Virginia,
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: is just ink. There's no raised seal on it. And
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: so they were able to superimpose that and basically record
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: a fraudulent deed transferring property to them. I haven't seen
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: that happened in West Virginia. I'll tell you there's a
• 34:37
  Speaker 6: new law and any lawyers out there doing real estate
• 34:40
  Speaker 6: may already know, but keep in mind if they've so.
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: Normally only the grand tour signs the deed. The person
• 34:46
  Speaker 6: who is conveying the property, like whoever's receiving it, doesn't
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: have to sign it. Similar to a car title. I
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: don't think the purchaser signs the back of a car title,
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: only the seller, but they've The legislature passed a law,
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: and I didn't realize so after it was passed. I'm
• 35:01
  Speaker 6: not one hundred percent sure on the reasoning. But now
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: if there's a deed that involves no consideration and it's
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: not a grandparent to parents or grandparent of grandchild parent
• 35:13
  Speaker 6: a child, then all parties have to sign off on
• 35:16
  Speaker 6: the deed, not just one side of the equation.
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: And I think it was.
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: To try and help with some unscrupulous activity of transferring
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: property to this person. Then maybe another person without you
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: wouldn't even know it came in your name and then
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: goes out of your name. But I haven't seen that
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: in West Virginia. I don't know about these companies that
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: market that product to monitor. I believe in Canall County
• 35:43
  Speaker 6: and most of the counties. If you really have concern
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: about that. I haven't seen it, so I don't have
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: concern about it myself. I haven't seen it here in
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: West Virginia. There is a way to track like you,
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: I could enter Tom Payton and say, you know, alert
• 36:01
  Speaker 6: me if anything happens under my name, and it will
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: track that subject matter and I can get an email
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: alert because I have an account if something's recorded that
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: matches my name in the record room, and of course,
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: anytime a deed's recorded, the clerk looks at the deed
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: and all parties to the deed, whether they're the sellers,
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: the buyers, if they're named in that deed, you get
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: a life of state. It's all indexed by the clerk.
• 36:30
  Speaker 6: So that's how you are able to look deeds up.
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: You got to type the name, and that's why you
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: have mistakes sometimes because everybody's human. You get a name
• 36:37
  Speaker 6: that's misspelled. You might not find the document if you
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: go and look for it. But I haven't seen that.
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: I've had clients ask about that. I haven't seen that
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: as a problem in West Virginia. I think it's maybe
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: some other states have different methods of recording. You can
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: you can do electronic recording in West Virginia. But you
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: have to use authorized third parties that have validation requirements,
• 37:01
  Speaker 6: meaning you don't have to bring the original to the
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: clerk to record. I could send it to this third
• 37:08
  Speaker 6: party who will then electronically file it through the record room.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: But they have.
• 37:15
  Speaker 6: Lots of safeguards to make sure that that's not done fraudulently.
• 37:20
  Speaker 6: And of course it can all be it can all
• 37:22
  Speaker 6: be straightened out if it was a fraudulent transfer, and
• 37:26
  Speaker 6: and and but I haven't seen scammers doing that on
• 37:31
  Speaker 6: the on the regular I haven't had any call other
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: than the call we like we just got on the
• 37:36
  Speaker 6: radio where it's actually happened to someone where there's some
• 37:40
  Speaker 6: somebody has gone in and somehow gotten titled to their property.
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: And then you have other issues I know, a lot
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: out of time. None you have some time, and you
• 37:52
  Speaker 6: have some issues in other states where you have like
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: squatters' rights and and really difficult to get trespassers out
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: of property once they're in there. It's not the same
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: in West Virginia. So I think that's it's a concern,
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: but I haven't seen it yet, So I don't think
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: listeners really need to take any action out of out
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: of listening to those ads on the radio or television
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: about hi RS to protect you from having your property stolen.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's probably other ways that you can monitor that
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: or check it yourself. You don't have to like pay
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: somebody to do it. On a constant pasis.
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: That's right, and it's just not something I do so
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: much of that work. I haven't seen one instance of
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: it happening, and so if I do, I'll be certainly
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: do a PSA here on the radio.
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: And seven one.
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: Seven five five fifty five eighty six seven five five
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: fifty five fifty six. Payton Law Firm dot com. Payton
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: Lawfirm dot com. Tom see you next week.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Beat Pitt w c hs A W two four three
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: d r f M Charles stand W two eight three
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: HU Coross Lanes a WVRC media station.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: We're proud to live here too,