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423 | What If a Child Tells You to Stop Talking? · Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,
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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
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Hi,
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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
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The Kid Counselor.
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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
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a master class in child-centered play therapy
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and practical support and application for your
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work with children and their families.
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In today's episode,
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I'm answering a question from Juliet in Appalachia.
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And
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really excited to talk about this because it's essentially going into
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a child telling us that we're not allowed to talk,
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which
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that's always an interesting session when you're trying
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to do your job and the kid's like,
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stop doing that.
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So,
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I'm really excited to dive in.
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I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.
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I want to let you all know that I am
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doing the Colorado,
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the Denver meetup on
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the 4th,
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and I'm doing the Seattle meetup on the 6th.
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So if you all have RSVP'd,
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I'm really excited to meet you and I'm looking forward to
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heading out that way.
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So,
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Florida's about as south and as east as it gets in the states.
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So it's nice to go northwest for a little bit.
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So,
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I'm looking forward to that.
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For those of you that have not yet RSVP,
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you got to do it real fast.
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And then
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also,
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if you
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are interested in coming to the Jersey or the Indiana conference,
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please go to iamccpt.live
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to check that out.
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So,
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let me read parts of this email and then we will dive in together.
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I've been working with a young client for about 32 sessions.
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Once or twice before,
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session 6 and session 27.
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They expressed that they think my narration is quote annoying,
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and recently they became very frustrated when I reflected content
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about having to retry,
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retry something because they weren't happy with the first outcome.
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They've come really far,
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but this issue keeps popping up.
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I reflected their feeling they don't always like when I talk
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and informed them that part of my job is talking.
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They communicated that it's also my job to make them feel better and not worse,
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and to not make them feel even bigger emotions than they're already feeling.
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I know that kids can bounce between stages,
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and I'm not sure if it's natural as they encounter
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new difficult issues or if it's my lack of skill
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and I'm potentially causing harm.
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Any insight you have would be immensely appreciated.
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OK,
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so,
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let's start with
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anything that happens in a playroom,
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it's therapeutically necessary,
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valuable and significant.
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There's nothing happenstance.
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There's nothing
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coincidental,
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no matter what it is in the playroom.
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There's a reason behind it.
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And in this scenario,
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early on,
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session 6,
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that sounds like resistance
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emerging to me.
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Session 27,
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that sounds like resistance to the work that they needed to do.
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And so we,
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we have to be mindful of a couple of things with this.
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The first is that resistance is a phase,
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but resistance happens within every phase.
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So,
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sometimes we have resistance to initiation,
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sometimes we have resistance to work,
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sometimes we have resistance to termination,
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and then sometimes we just have resistance period because it's the phase.
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So,
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when it bounces all over,
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when you're 32 sessions in Juliet and session 6,
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session 27,
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this came up,
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they're likely rooted in different
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phases and or issues,
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but we know that that's their junk
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emerging.
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When a child
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is
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disregulated in session.
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And yes,
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telling you they're not allowed,
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that you're not allowed to talk
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and
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stop telling me how I feel and stop telling
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me what I'm doing and you're so irritating.
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That's dysregulation.
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So,
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when we know that there's a root cause behind every single thing,
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it's easier for us to trust it.
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Now,
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the second part of this is
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they,
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the,
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the child became very frustrated and you reflected content.
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So,
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obviously,
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the kid must have said something like,
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well,
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I don't like.
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That
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this worked out this way,
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so I'm going to do it again or something,
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which I suspect you probably said,
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oh,
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you're going to do it again because you were unhappy with it.
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OK,
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so that's a reflection of content and a reflection of feeling there.
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And
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here's what often happens.
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Kids don't like the truth being said out loud
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because we have to remember,
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kids aren't logical,
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they're not cognitive,
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they're not verbal,
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they're not rational.
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So,
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what is going on for this child is subconsciously.
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They feel like they need to start over.
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So when you say it out loud,
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oh,
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you were dissatisfied with that,
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you want to try again.
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OK.
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Well,
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now you've spoken it and it becomes real.
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And it becomes very known.
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And it's hard for a child to hide.
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It essentially
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forces them into a position of vulnerability.
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Because when we reflect a negative emotion,
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when we reflect
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that the child is dissatisfied,
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when we reflect that the child has to do it
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again because they didn't like how it turned out.
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That is an implied to the child anyway,
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implied acknowledgement
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that
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they are experiencing something negative
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and negative emotions require vulnerability.
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So therefore,
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the only way a child knows how to combat
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the vulnerability that they don't want to feel and experience
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is to grasp at power and control.
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Stop telling me
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what I said.
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Stop saying how I feel.
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Stop whatever.
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Power and control grab,
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because when you are angry,
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makes you feel like you're less vulnerable.
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So I suspect that is a component of what's going on here.
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And when you said,
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you said that part of your job is talking,
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that's true.
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But I think sometimes one of the more helpful approaches
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is
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you didn't like that I said.
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That you were going to try over,
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start over again,
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but that's what you said you were going to do,
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and I heard you.
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Or,
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oh,
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you don't think that you were disappointed,
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but you seemed disappointed and I wanted you to know that I realized
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that's what you felt.
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OK,
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sometimes they need a why because it's my job to talk
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is
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true.
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We can't do our job if we're quiet.
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However,
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that really doesn't help a child feel seen.
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It doesn't help them feel understood.
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It doesn't help them feel known.
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So when we say,
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oh,
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well,
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I wanted you to know that I was paying attention
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or I wanted you to know that I noticed how you felt.
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I wanted you to know that I was listening.
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That's a very true lie,
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and it makes more sense to a child.
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Now,
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what's interesting,
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my favorite part of this whole thing actually
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is,
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it is also your job to make me feel better and not worse.
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No,
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it is not.
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You got that all wrong,
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sweet pea.
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I don't know if your client's a girl or a boy,
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but
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you have that all wrong,
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sweet pea.
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It is not
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my job to make you feel better.
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It is not my job to not make you feel worse.
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That this is a totally skewed perception of what's going on here.
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And so when you get that kind of accusation.
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That's trying to
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make you feel a certain thing,
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so you will comply.
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It's power and control.
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And the second component
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to not make me feel even bigger emotions that I'm already feeling,
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like somehow you're responsible for how the child feels.
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Again,
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that's not the scenario.
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Those are power and control stretches all day long.
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And so
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we're going to recognize it for what it is again.
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Ad nauseam,
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this is the child's junk.
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So if we filter everything through,
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if this is coming up,
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this is exactly what we would want to have happen.
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If this is coming up,
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this is exactly where the child needs to be.
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If this is coming up,
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that means work's taking place.
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If this is coming up,
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we're making progress.
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We have to view everything
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in light of
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this is therapeutically necessary
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because it is,
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and it's their junk
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on display.
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I mean in full form.
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It's,
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this is
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the kid's junk coming up.
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So,
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to answer your final question,
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is it
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normal
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as they encounter new difficult issues for them to go through this
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for power and control grabs and refusal to feel vulnerable and to avoid doing work?
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Absolutely.
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And then,
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are you potentially causing harm?
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No,
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there's the simple answer.
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However,
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we do need to be very mindful our execution of skills
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is going to make a difference of how the child receives it.
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This is why a lot of kids push back when parents start doing CPRT.
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Because
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the parent is actually learning the skills
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and they're saying the words.
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So the parent is,
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for example,
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reflecting a child's feeling or reflecting content or
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tracking behavior or using esteem building or encouragement.
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So the parent has been,
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has been learning these CCPT skills,
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and they're implementing them with their own children.
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But sometimes the delivery is off.
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Sometimes the congruence isn't there.
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The genuineness.
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Kids have a radar for that.
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Kids know when something is true or when it isn't.
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Are you just saying this because you were told to say it,
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or do you mean it?
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Do you understand the philosophical underpinnings
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of why you're reflecting a child's feelings?
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So,
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while I know 100% you're not causing harm
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by adhering to the model,
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it is worth
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maybe reviewing some of your own sessions,
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watching your videos,
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or having someone else watch it
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and have some feedback on,
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does it feel
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honest,
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genuine,
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congruent.
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Is it being delivered
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in the be with attitudes?
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Is it being delivered with unconditional acceptance?
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Is it being delivered with calm confidence?
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Because
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if there's something coming up in you.
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As you're
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reflecting feelings,
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reflecting content,
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doing all those things,
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if it's coming up from within,
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a child's going to sniff it out
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a mile away,
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and sometimes that's why they fight back.
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So I don't know that that's the case,
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Juliet.
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I'm just saying this is why self-review is so important for us,
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because we need to watch things back and catch stuff
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that we don't know is happening in the moment.
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But barring that,
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I mean,
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if,
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if you say
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genuinely and openly,
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no,
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I really don't think that there's any delivery issues,
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I think this is just the kid fighting it,
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then we know that that's the work the child needs to do
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and we honor that process and we're excited because
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that means that they are tackling the things that
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they know they need to work on.
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So
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I hope that that was helpful.
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I love talking about kids that tell us to shut up.
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So
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it's one of my favorite things actually,
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when a kid tells me I can't talk,
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and it just,
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it tickles me.
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I will say I had a kid a while back that
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would not let me speak.
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And even when I would try,
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I would get a word in and she would shush me
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and then I would go,
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Oh,
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you want me to be quiet?
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And it's so,
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and I mean,
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I,
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and then she whispered the whole session so I couldn't
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hear anything she said so that I couldn't reflect content.
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And then anytime I would try to say something,
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she would go,
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I told you to stop talking.
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And I mean,
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she did not
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relent.
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It was the entire 50 minutes she wouldn't let me talk.
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And so I whispered here and there,
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but I mean she didn't give me any leeway.
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And I got a text like 30 minutes after they left from her mom.
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The mom said
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she told me that she wouldn't let you talk the entire session.
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And then I said,
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that's true.
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And then she said,
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and she told me you're really bad at not talking.
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I was like,
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hm,
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I'm sure she thinks so,
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yes.
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So,
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we can't not talk,
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y'all.
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We don't do our job if we're silent.
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So,
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of course,
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we're going to talk.
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But we have to make sure that we honor
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a child saying they don't want us to.
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We can slow down our responses.
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We can whisper our responses,
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we can pace them out.
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We can say less.
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We're we're trying to be respectful of a child not wanting us to say anything.
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But Juliet,
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what you're describing here
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is different.
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Don't make me feel worse than I already do,
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and it's your job to make me feel better.
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That's totally different.
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You're on target.
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It's not that they don't want you to talk,
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they can't handle
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what you're acknowledging out loud.
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So we continue to do our job and we continue to remain adherent to the model,
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and then we know CCPT is going to have positive outcomes.
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So,
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I love y'all.
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Thanks so much for hanging out with me.
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I hope y'all have a great week.
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We'll talk again soon.
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Bye.
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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
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For more episodes and resources,
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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.