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Patriots Catch-22 9/29: Jaguars Recap, Big Picture, Good/Bad/Stuff that Gets You Beat · Patriots Catch-22

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch-22 podcast with Evan Lazar and
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Alex Barth.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: I'm Evan Lazar. I'm Evan Lazar. I'm Evan Lazar.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hello, everybody.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Nailed it. Joined, as always, by our star. That's a fit.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: That's a match. No risk it.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: No risk it.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: 42.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barth.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: The Jaguars play the second highest cover six rate in
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: the league since the start of 2025, 19.6% over the
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: last two years. The only team that plays more cover
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: six defensively is the Eagles who Vic Fangio is the
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: defensive coordinator.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: It's their thing.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: It's literally his coverage that he essentially coined against all
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: other coverages in the NFL. Cover one, cover two, cover
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: three quarters. He's number one in the league and EPA
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: per drop back since the start of 2025. So he's
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: literally the best quarterback in the league against every other coverage.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: And he's one of the worst quarterbacks in the league
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: against specifically against cover six. That was not the open
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I thought we were going to go with, so I
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: appreciate you not going with the other part of the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: show on Thursday. Just like me, the Patriots are going
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to flush that performance on Sunday, and we're going to
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: talk about it right now. No, not funny.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: The one you told me you were going to use
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: was better. That was before the game.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Fair enough. All right, we're going to talk about this
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: loss to the Jaguars. We're going to do the good,
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the bad, the stuff that gets you beat. And we're
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: going to vent about this game a little bit, I think,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: and where the Patriots are right now, offensively especially. But
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: it's Evan, it's Alex, it's Ace behind the glass. And
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I want to start big picture like we always do, Alex,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: and then we'll zoom in with the full recap here.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: But I just want to start off the top of
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: the show with– Two things. One, I feel like we
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: were talking about this off the air. No matter what
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: you say in your explanation of the Patriots' offensive struggles,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: you're going to get accused of being... an apologist or
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: an excuse maker for somebody, whether it's Josh McDaniels, Drake may, uh,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: the supporting cast, Mike Vrabel, whatever the case may be.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I'll just say off the top, I am not apologizing
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: for anybody.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Like they're all bad.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: They're all culpable.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: It's all bad. And let me just add to that too.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Explaining why something happened is not making an excuse.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Like say we, we were talking about this earlier with,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: you know, some of the issues up front, and oh,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: this and that, like, not making excuses, but like, guys
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: aren't going out there and just deciding, well, I'm not
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: going to get a block today or I'm not going
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: to throw this ball accurately. I'm not going to like,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: there's reasons these things are happening.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Giving the reasons is not an excuse.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So no one is apologizing for making excuses or
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: anything like that for anybody involved in that mess on
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Sunday in Jacksonville. I would say that the biggest thing too,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: that I also just put right at the top is that,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: you cannot win football games when your quarterback turns it
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: over three times and has five turnover worthy plays and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: throws another interception in the end zone on the goal line.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Like these are all things that until we, we're going
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: to talk all about all the other stuff that's going
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: on too, but just period full stop. They got to
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: stop turning the ball over and Drake may has got
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: to play better. It's that simple. He's got to play
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: smarter with the football. Now, with all that being said,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: this dawned on me when I was watching the Bills
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: last night, watching the Bills' offense against the Chargers. Josh
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Allen had a very similar game as Drake May. Josh
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Allen turned the ball over three times. He was sacked
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: four times. He struggled in that game against the Chargers.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: But the Bills had a run game. They were able
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: to run the ball.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: On Los Angeles.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: They forced a couple turnovers. on Justin Herbert. Justin Herbert
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: threw two interceptions going into the end zone in that game.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: So in a lot of ways, I looked at it
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: and was like, okay, well, maybe let's take a step
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: back for a second. And let's talk about something that's
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: kind of been a core tenant philosophy of this show,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: which is that playing quarterback in the NFL is really hard.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: And everything that the organization does from the top down
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: in my mind, should be geared towards making the quarterback's
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: job easier.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I understand people want the quarterback to elevate. And I agree.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: If you're going to be great at that position, you
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: need to be able to elevate, but you also shouldn't
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: be asked to elevate this much.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: And look like, I think we're Drake Mays out right now.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's, it's every, there's not one thing people
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: ask what's wrong with Drake May. It's not one thing. Yeah.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: It's most things. And, It's going to take time to
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: dig out of that. I don't think the issues he's
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: having right now, like I think some people are waiting
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: for the game where it comes out, there's like 283 touchdowns,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: no picks, and like, boom, he's fixed. I don't think
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: that's how this is going to happen.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's gradual.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: It's going to be incremental. And part of helping, and
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: there's things that he has to do and that Josh
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: McDaniels and Ashton Grant have to work with him on
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: independent of everything else that's happening for him to be better.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: But it's all interconnected. Part of what is going to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: help that process is making his life easier. Nothing makes
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the quarterback's life easier than having a good run game. Yeah.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: And they just do not have that right now.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So that's where it's this, you know, last night kind
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: of came to me a little bit because I spend
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: way too much time thinking about this stuff. When you
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: really boil it down. Drake may at this point has
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: no AJ Brown.
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: He has no running game, worst running game in the
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: NFL statistically right now by some metrics is the Patriots.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: He has a backup or really a third string player
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: playing at right guard. 20 snaps into this game. I
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Morgan Moses, maybe it's his foot, maybe it's age. Maybe
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: it's a combination of both. Didn't look himself in that
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: game on Sunday.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: So the right side, Henry doesn't look himself, right?
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: The right side of the offensive line right now is
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: not in good shape. The run game is not in
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: good shape. He has no number one receiver. Romeo Dobbs
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: is MIA in this offense right now. Hunter Henry looks
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: a little bit like he's showing his age at times
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: in some of these games as well. So, again, we're
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: not apologizing for Drake May. I'm not making excuses for him.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: But when we talk about quarterback environments and is this
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: a stable environment for a quarterback to have consistent success,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: not to have moments of success and good plays, like
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: those all exist. And Drake May, you know, certainly could
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: manage these games better and limit these turnovers more. But
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: do they have the ability to consistently move the ball
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: and score points with the infrastructure around him right now?
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: They have consistently moved the ball. That's what's so frustrating.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I think 47% of their drives have entered opposing territory
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: this year.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: It's one of the highest rates in the league. They're
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: 12th in yards per drive. So it's better than where
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: they are in terms of scoring. But they're stalling right
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: around the 30, 35 yard line.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Well, there's this other issue. And this is where you
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: get into the coaching of it. I think it's coaching
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: and players. Last week, we came on here. We did
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the good, the bad, and stuff that gets you beat.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: The biggest stuff that gets you beat thing for me
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: was they had six explosive plays last week. One of
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: them just straight up went for a touchdown. The other five,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: they instantly, like the next play, had a negative. I'm
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: not saying you have to follow an explosive play with
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: an explosive play, but you pick up 25 yards. Get
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: four or five on the next snap. Defense is on
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: their heels. They did that again this week, and I
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: can pull up the list, but right from the jump,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: you have that 21-yard catch and run by Mack Hollins.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Nice play. Nice play by May to find him. Hollins
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: does a good job creating after the catch. Drake May
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: misses a receiver. They end up punting, right? They get,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I think it was off, yeah, the Marcus Jones interception. Like,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: great momentum play. You have the Jags reeling. It's early
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: in the game. You're at the 21-yard line. This should
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: be where the momentum turns. Back-to-back offensive penalties, now you're
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: in first and 30. You can't have that. That is
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: not winning. That is losing football. And that is on May.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: That is on the players around him. That is on
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the coaching. There's not one thing that keeps happening. Some
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: of them are Drake May interceptions. Some of them are penalties.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Some of them are bad play calls. Like, there's no
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: rhyme or reason to it. It's just that when they
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: have an explosive play right now, you can set your
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: watch to it. They're going backwards the next snap.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think we're just bordering on an environment
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: for a quarterback that makes it really difficult to succeed. And,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I think the second, third down play that
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: stalled out their first drive to me is like a
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: microcosm of all of it. And so same with the
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: end of the half. And I think that third down play...
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Morgan Moses loses his block on the right side. There's
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: immediate pressure on Drake May. He actually steps up in
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: the pocket and shrugs off the pressure. Like 2025 Drake
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: May would have. Steps through the pocket, resets, and he's
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: going to throw to Hunter Henry over the middle of
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: the field. Well, there's a problem. Hunter Henry and Pop
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Douglas are right next to each other for some reason.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: So now we have right tackle losing his block. We
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: have route spacing down the field with the tight end
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: and the slot receiver. And we have Drake May throwing
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: off-platform from a muddied pocket to a crowd in the
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: middle of the field. And it goes high-heat fastball right
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: through Hunter Henry's hands. And they're punting on that possession.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: The end of the half sequence was obviously a disaster.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, just an absolute disaster. First down... zone read
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: that Drake may keeps when he should have probably given
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: it to Ramondre Stevenson. Stuffed. Second run under center run
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: stuffed third down interception on a ill-advised decision.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: So they only get in that scenario because may again,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: they hit the big plate of pop Douglas.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: May then overthrows them for what, if not a touchdown
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: gets you inside the five, right? They could have avoided
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: all of that. If may just hits pop Douglas in stride,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: he walks into the end zone.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're just, you know, we're looking at this.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I just want to make the last plan that we
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: can move on. I, I just want to make it
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: clear that I really feel like it's probably too unfair
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: to just blame this all on Drake.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Well, it's compounding issues.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: I think that all of it is a problem. I
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: think that he's culpable. He's the tip of the iceberg
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: when it comes to anything with the offense, along with McDaniels.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: But I think all of these things are contributing to
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: them not having offensive success.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Here's how I put it last night was even if
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Drake May was playing great right now, There are still
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: issues around him independent of him that are going to
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: put a lower ceiling on this offense that they need
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to get cleaned up. But if everything else was going great,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Drake May is not in a position right now where
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: he can capitalize when everything else does work. It's both.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: And they're both going to have to get better in conjunction.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think May can truly bounce back while some
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of these issues are happening around him. And at the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: same time, even if he does, well, these issues are
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: still going to happen, and that's going to limit him,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and it's going to limit the offense. So it's everything.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: It's everything. It's, you know, May's play is a problem,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: but there's more to it. Aaron Judge, not on the
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Yankees wildcard roster.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Yeah, we'll see about that.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the— What do you mean, like,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: he's not on the roster?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I know, I understand.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I just— See about that series?
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's fair.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Let's get to the good, the bad, and the stuff
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: that gets you beat. So I don't have a ton
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: to say on the good side from this game. I
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: don't think that anything, any unit, any phase, any aspect
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: of this game was good enough for me to put
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: it on the goods. So what I did do is
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: kind of a little quick three up.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got two players.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Three guys that I thought just played pretty well in
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: the game and were outliers in that sense. Again, I
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: don't think schematically, I don't think unit-wise, I don't think
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: phase of the game-wise, they did anything good enough for
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: me to put it on this list.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Would you agree with that?
• 12:31
  Speaker 7: Uh, yes.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Okay. So, uh, I have three players that I thought
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: played well in the game. Uh, four, I kind of combined.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: You found four.
• 12:38
  Speaker 6: Wow.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I have two, maybe three.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: I kind of combined, you know, one, two guys.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Uh, the first one is, I just think that he
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: consistently keeps playing well and that's Will Campbell.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not, he's still not doing a ton
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: of one-on-one pass blocking on an island. So I want
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: to put that caveat into it. He had 16 true
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: pass sets. Those take away screens, play actions, things like that.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: It's not a terribly high volume, I would say, when
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: it comes to true pass blocking. But still, he only
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: allowed one hurry in this game. He had one short
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: corner where he missed his two-hand punch, and Hines Allen
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: beat him with the cross chop around the high side.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Other than that, he was absolutely clean. I think the
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: thing that stands out the most to me with Campbell
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: is how sturdy he looks. Like, guys just aren't going
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: through him anymore like they were in the playoffs last year.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: You see the muscle he put on, the work he
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: put in in the offseason. It's kind of funny, just
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: a side note. Like, the three questions you had going
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: into the season, if you told me in week three,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Will Campbell looks great.
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Christian Gonzalez, there's no issues with the contract. in the
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: time he missed and all that and gave Accus looks representative,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, Oh hell yeah. They're three. Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: And those three, those three boxes seem checked. I would
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: have Will Campbell as an up to.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: So I would just say, and I think Will Campbell
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: is the biggest one, but the whole left side of
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the line, I saw pretty much him absolving them of
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: any wrongdoing in this game. I think both of those
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: guys were fine.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, you need better run blocking across.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: The board, but I guess that's fair. I, that, that part.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: They're not the bigger issues in that.
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: So the second one you just mentioned, Gabe Ackes, and
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I would also put Ponder. Again, I thought both those guys,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: like we were worried about Draymond Jones being hurt and
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: not having him available. I did not feel like that's
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: why they lost this game or was like really the problem.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: The edge group has been good through three weeks. The
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: edge group has been good. Now, the problem is Ponder
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: and Ackes played like 80% of the snaps. That's not sustainable.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And Tremont Jones will come back and hopefully eventually Harold
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Landry will come back. But like, you can't ask them
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: to do that every week. But the edge group has
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: been late. That's not the reason they're losing, which is
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: what we thought the reason would be.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: No, it's certainly not. Now the four-man rushes need to improve,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: and we'll get to that. And I think that's really
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: the last step. And maybe that's more of a long-term
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: thing for Ackes. I don't think it's totally realistic to
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: expect him to add a true one-on-one pass rush arsenal
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: in season. But I'm really excited about Ackes, man. I
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: think they have a guy here. I really do. Run defense...
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: That stuff that he made where he avoids the puller,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Cleveland pulls from the backside, he avoids the puller, goes inside,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: and just puts the running back in the ground instantly.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: It's not just the play strength. It's block recognition. It's
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: suddenness to get around the block. Just a really impressive play.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: And then when it comes to pass rushing on early downs,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: he does a nice job of transitioning. Like when he
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: reads play action, he can transition. He can kind of
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: knife into gaps. find space on the offensive line to
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: get into the backfield. Trevor Lawrence had one throw where
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: he checked it down to two in on a 15-yard play,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: but Akis was pulling him down as he threw the ball.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: You know, things like that I think are really impressive
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: from Gabe Akis. So, I think that in the off season,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: like he needs to get, you know, in his bag
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: in terms of pass rush moves and figuring that part
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: of his game out, uh, to take that next step.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: But right now, uh, certainly like starter level play from
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: gay back.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: The player we thought he would be back in April. Yep.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Uh, last one. I got one more. Uh, I
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: just think Christian Ellis continues to be awesome. and I
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: think it should be talked about more. I don't have
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: much more else to add than that. As a blitzer,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: there was one play in particular, though. He's great as
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: a blitzer. They threw a screen where he was the
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: only guy on that side of the field, and he
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: ended up avoiding the block and making the tackle for
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: just a two-yard gain. That play had a long way
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: to go if he doesn't make that tackle. And he
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: somehow got off the block and made the play as
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: really the only guy within like 20 yards of the screen.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: He's just been really good. I think he's been really
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: good all three games this season, and it's exciting to
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: see that.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: He's been good. I'll give you one more. I thought
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Christian is also another really good game.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I, I, I thought he was good. Uh,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: you know, slipping on the one throw on third down it,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: you know, it happens, but that was like the one
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: thing that kind of kept him off the list for me.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: He gave up a third down, uh, completion of Jacoby Myers,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: but other than that, he was good.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I, he's still playing well to me.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Uh, all right.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: That's enough on the goods.
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, let's get to the bads and let's get to
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: the stuff that gets you beat. So, uh, I think
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: that I want to put all of the offensive things
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: into separate buckets, you know? Let's start with the run game.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to rant about the run game, I'm sure,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: because it just gets me fired up. There's nothing more just.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Frustrating than watching a team consistently just run into piles
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: in the run game. And to me, I will keep harping.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: And I know I sound like a broken record. I
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: think this is schematic mostly than it is blocking and execution.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I'm sick and tired of hearing, just move the guys.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I'm sick of it. These guys are 320 pounds on
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: the defensive line. The defensive lines are stunting. They're blitzing
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: on first down. They're doing different things to get hats
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: into the box. You can't just expect to run duo
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: on every single play up the gut and have all
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the offensive linemen and all the blockers just create movement
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: on every single play. And it's honestly not that they're
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: not creating a ton of movement. It's just for two
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: or three yards at a time. And it's like, to me,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: their scheme is just nowhere near dynamic enough when you're
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: running the football. So if you look at the teams
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: that lead the league, and we're going to see one
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: on Sunday with the Bills, the three teams that lead
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: the league right now in success rate, in rushing success rate,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: are all top 10 in motion rate. They all use
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: a ton of motion. They use a ton of window dressing.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: They have different compliments and different pitches that they can
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: throw off their base runs. The Patriots just run duo
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: right up the middle every single time. They're 29th in
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: the league in motion rate. They don't use any sort
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: of disguise or misdirection pre-snap. I just don't understand what...
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: like what they expect to accomplish by just, we're going
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: to get guys on double teams and we're going to
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: push the line for four yards at a time at best.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: And then there's also, I would say issues in terms
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: of how the backs are reading it out. I think
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the backs are too stringent and too kind of like, uh,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: narrow focused on like, I'm just going to follow the
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: block and the point of the play. When you run
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: plays like duo, you know, and you see, I think, uh,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: not to keep bringing up the bills, but I think
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: James Cook is one of the best in the league
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: at this. I think Kenneth Walker is also one of
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: the best in the league. A lot of the times
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: when you run those interior double teams on the inside,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: the defense will just naturally pinch in. Like it's just, natural.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Like they see the double teams, they see the point
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: of attack and the force defenders and the edges and
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: they all start to kind of converge on it and
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: kind of like a like a kickoff or a punt return. Right.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: You have to have lanes.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: And so what happens is these outside guys will lose
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: contain and that creates a bounce outs or just, you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: abilities for the back to just bounce out runs off
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: tackle and outside the numbers. And when I watch Ramond
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Ray Stevenson and Travion Henderson run duo, they are just
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: right up the middle all the time. And I don't
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: know if that's just how they're being coached or what,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: but I'm sorry. I just, you watch, I, you know,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I just watched the bills. I just watched the Chargers,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: who now Mike McDaniel is coordinating the Chargers offense. You
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: watch the Bears last night on Monday Night Football. Their
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: run game is just so much more exotic than what
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: the Patriots are putting on film. There's so many more
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: things to think about for defenses. They're creating angles. They're
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: adding blockers. They're doing different things to help the offensive
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: line play. create movement and create rushing lanes and the
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Patriots just go forward like they just get on double
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: teams and they just run it right up the gut
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: at you and I would maybe like excuse it if
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: they had play action working off of it like if
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: those duo blocks were getting the linebackers to come down
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: and that was creating play action opportunities behind the linebackers
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: but the They're bottom five in the league in play
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: action rate. So they're not even using it in terms
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: of the sense of creating play action plays or explosives
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: through the play action passing game. I could probably rant
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: about this for another 10 minutes. It's infuriating. And I'm
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: kind of sick and tired of like hearing, well, the
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: run game, you just got to block this guy and
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: block the force and do this. No, like you got
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: to do more than that now.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: But but there is an element of that. And, yeah,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: you watch the Bills. You watch the Bears. They blow
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: defensive lines off the ball.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: They blow defensive lines off the ball.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: And the Patriots are not doing that.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Because they're creating angles and numbers in the running game. So, like,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: you have ability, like, to in order to.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: But even when they're not using motion, they're pushing guys back.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: They're using motion, like, 80% of the time.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: They're still. You hear guys who play talk about this
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: all the time. So much of the running game. is
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: just want to. The Patriots are just not getting that push.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I'll add to that, too, and this is where the
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: compounding issues come in. You've talked about this. Part of
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: the issues with motion is some quarterbacks don't like it
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: because it changes the picture. Do you want them using
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: a ton of motion right now? Like, I don't know
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: if Drake may can handle.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: That right now. I'd need them to do something that
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: leverages something against the defense. I'll say it again. In
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: this day and age in football, these defenses have really
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: gotten smart with how they play the run. They slant
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: the line. They stunt. They run blitzes. They use penetrations,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: gap penetrations, to basically... take down your double teams and
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: eliminate your combination blocks. And what that's doing is it's
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: kind of muddying up the picture. That's why they're running
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: into piles all the time. So all these different things
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: that I'm talking about, all you're trying to do is
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: create more space. You're trying to just widen defenses out, right?
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: And you're trying to eliminate the conflict that they can
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: put into your run game. So if you just are
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: a stagnant run team and you just turn around and
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: hand the ball off and run it up the gut,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: In 2026, that is not going to be effective. It's
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: just not like I don't care. Maybe if you had
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: like the 1990s Dallas Cowboys offensive line, you could do
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: it that way. Or if you had like, you know, whatever.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: So name some prime offensive line that had multiple pro
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: bowlers and stuff like that. They don't have the personnel
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: for that. And I think, you know, you saw it
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: last week against Pittsburgh. The one really good run they had,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: it was out of the gun. They spread them out
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: and they ran.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: So I'm all for spraying out, forcing a lighter box
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and maybe running that way. And Reggie Gilliam has not
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: been the player we expected.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I wonder how much of.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: That is on the right side.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: He's hurt. There's something going on with him. They've been
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: managing him since the spring.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: So like, I'm all for that. I'm just saying that
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I think at a certain point saying, well, they need
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to do all the schematic stuff with the run. None
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: of that matters. You have whoever's at right guard getting
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: pushed back. You have Morgan Moses getting pushed back. You
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: have Jared Wilson getting pushed back. Unless you want it,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: they could do a bunch of creative outside stuff, like
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: way outside stuff. You want to start tossing the ball
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: a ton. You want to start using unbalanced lines. Like
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that would be how you counter that. And maybe they
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: do some of that. At the end of the day,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what you call. And this is, again,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: to go back to your point off the top, this
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: is not to excuse the play calling. There's multiple layers
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: to it. if the guys that they, they, they built
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: this kind of more athletic, smaller offensive line. Yeah.
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: We talked about that. Michael and when it was kind
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: of the last piece of the old build and he's
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: now out Walter Rouse, smaller, more athletic player, Ben Brown,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Greg Van Roten. Like this is the unit they have now.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: If those guys can't just get a push and, I
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: don't care how many, whoo, motion, left, right, look at
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: all the... If the right guard's getting blown back.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I just don't, like... I don't understand what you kind
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: of expect, like, these guys to do.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Like, when you watch these other teams, do you see
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: stagnant run games? Do you see them just turning around
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: and handing the ball off?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: So, again, they can mix in more. The Patriots can
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: mix in more. But I also... Some of those teams
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: just have... Really good offensive lines that whatever the scenario is,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: they get a push. The Patriots not getting that push.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I guess like my... Don't you see how the scheme
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: helps the offensive line and helps them create angles and
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: helps them create numbers and helps them create that movement?
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: To an extent.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think that does everything.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I've been hearing for two years, we just got to
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: block them. That's too simplistic.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: But you're acting like, all right, if they run Pop
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Douglas from right to left before the play, they're going
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to run for five yards a pop.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: that you have to have motions that you're using them
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: for a reason. They have to have a purpose. I
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: guess I don't understand. I know you don't like the
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: fancy dipsy-dos and all that.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: It's not that I don't like it.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I'm just confused as to if you look at, I
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: just named all three of the top three run teams
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: in the league are all top 10 in motion rate.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: They also just have some of the best offensive lines.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: It's a chicken or the egg thing, Alex. Like, is
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: it that they have great offensive linemen, or is it
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: that the offensive line and the scheme work in concert
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: to run the football effectively?
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Again, so it's both. They need to vary their run
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: game more. Especially, it is surprising they're running so much
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: power with this smaller offensive line. But if you have
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: guys getting beat off the snap, what is it like–
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: The motion is going to stop that. The motion makes
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: the linemen stronger.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I know. I don't think you're giving enough credence to
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: like how you can create scheme conflict so that guys
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: are not just firing off the ball into the line
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: of scrimmage, expecting double teams and expecting combination blocks.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Yes. They need to vary their run.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what we're all talking. That's what we're talking about. Like,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: that's what all of this is. It's not just motion.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: It's misdirection. It's having different sort of compliments or pitches
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: to your run game. It's having Drake May, who I
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: think right now, given the state that he is in,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I think he needs to be more involved in the
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: run game too. But not just on design quarterback runs,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: but keepers, like bootlegs.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Isn't it tough to do that when you can't execute
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: the basics?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: To me, it's a chicken or the egg thing. Are
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: they not able to execute the basics or are they
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: not being put in positions to succeed? I think that
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: there's a little bit of column A and a little
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: bit of column B going on there. I really do.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: I don't think that this is as simple as like
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: the offensive line just stinks and they're all just getting
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: blown off the ball. Nor do I think that that's
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: like an answer. So like, what are we going to do?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's as simple as they're calling.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: The wrong play. In week four of the season, we're
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: just going to sit here and say, well, the offensive
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: line can't run blocks, so let's just not run the ball.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: No, but I don't think it's as simple as just
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: call different plays either. Like if the guys aren't going
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: to execute, you mentioned the running backs aren't finding the holes.
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: You're going to have more going on that they have
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: to read through.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: What do they have more going on? They have to
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: read through like it's.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: It's like motions changing the picture.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: It's pretty simple. Like you just run where they're not
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: like the whole thing about duo is that the bigs
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: are getting blocked by the offensive line. The backs need
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: to make the linebacker Ron. If the back is the
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: linebackers in the B gap, you run through the a gap.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: If he's in the a gap, you run through the
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: B gap. If they converge and they pinch inside defensively,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: you bounce. Like these are all things that that's NFL
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: running back. Like that's reading out runs. as an NFL
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: running back so it's just like I I just how
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: much more are we gonna just say all right just
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: turn around stagnant offense nobody's moving pre-snap nothing's happening there's
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: no misdirection there's no false pullers there's nothing we're just
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: gonna run it at you and you're we're just gonna
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: move you because we're tough and we're physical and we're
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: gonna win the line of scrimmage like how much longer
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: are we gonna do that for and expect different results.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Look, they should be doing more, especially, I think, to
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: capitalize on the athleticism of the offensive line. I think
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that's a part of it. I think suddenly cranking up
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: the complexity of the offense when guys can't execute what
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: they're being given right now, like you're, it could, I
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: don't know, change something because obviously what they're doing right
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: now isn't working. That fit, like putting.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: I can agree on that.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Putting more on Drake Mays plate, putting more on the
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: running backs plates right now feels like a tough task.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Fair enough. All right, let's move on. the offensive line.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: just put it in the same bucket as what we're
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: just talking about right now. I mentioned it off the top, uh,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: nine total pressures, uh, Morgan Moses, tough call. Like when
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the quarterback is running by you and it's your whole,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: you're blocking a guy and you're engaged with a guy
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: you have to let go. But that, that's a tough
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: thing to do. Uh, that his hold wipes out a touchdown. Uh, I,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: whether he's hurt, whether he's 35, whether he's both, uh,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: with Morgan Moses, uh, that was not his best game, uh,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: and then right guard obviously they're down to their third
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: string right guard with walter rouse i'll give walter rouse
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: this i don't think it really truly got bad for
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: walter rouse until the second half which i wonder was
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: it was a conditioning thing like you could not have
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: expected to play that much in that.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Game i also wonder if some of that was the
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: jaguars going into the locker room and hey they got
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: a backup right guard here's your third string right guard
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: third string right we're gonna key.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: In on yeah so i i would just say moving
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: forward uh you know If they have a Morgan Moses problem,
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they do because they put Caleb
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Lomu in, and granted, it's mop-up duty, but it didn't
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: look much better. I don't know if he's ready. So
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think that that's the answer, and obviously that's
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: a big step to bench a guy like Moses who's
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: a captain and all that kind of stuff. But him aside,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: at right guard, how long do we go with this? Obviously,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: you don't know if Van Roten's healthy or not, so
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: that's a big factor. But obviously, Ben Brown's an option,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Rouse is an option, and of course, Van Roten's an
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: option if he's healthy. And then there's also, like we
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: talked about last week, the break glass of emergency of
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Caleb Lomu finding his way into the starting lineup somewhere.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Again, the fact that Lomu hasn't looked good at right tackle...
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: makes me so hesitant to put him at guard. Cause
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: that's where you can even develop. And on top of that, like,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: and David Andrews brought up this point on our show yesterday,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: the way Morgan Moses playing. And we, we talked about it.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: He's dealing with something. You start having him work at
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: right guard now. And then in a week or two
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: weeks or three weeks, suddenly it's, Oh, we need you
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: to go play tackle. Like that's such a tough ask
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: for rookie. That's putting the kid in position to fail.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: So I don't think you can really do that at
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: this point. unless you only have five healthy linemen left
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: or something like that. You know, I wonder, and this
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: is maybe playing a little bit of a game of
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Jenga here. You had talked about, I think you had
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: talked about this last week. Elijah Tucker's playing pretty good.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: He was okay in the opener. He's been better since.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: He was rough in the opener better since.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Do you move him to right guard to kind of
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: spread out the guys who are playing well, and then
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I'd probably go Ben Brown or Van Roten at left guard.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: So I wouldn't move... Vera Tucker, unless you're putting in Loma.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I think if you're getting to stay with basically just
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: right guard one in one out, I'd leave a Vera
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Tucker where he is. I, I think that there's an
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: argument to be made and I don't know if he's ready.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: And based off of the mop up duty, like I
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: just mentioned, I don't think he is, but there's just
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: an argument to be made that it's the most talented
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: five guys you can get on the field with Caleb
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Loma playing somewhere on the offensive line. And you know,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: another thing that we, then we have to take a
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: quick break. It is driving me nuts that their first
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: round pick as they're kind of teetering here is sitting
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: on the bench like that is kind of driving me
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: a little bit nuts. So maybe that's their probably their
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: best five on paper is something involving Lomo. He's definitely
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: a more talented player than Walter.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: It's just it's so tough. knowing what the big picture
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: is to put him at right guard and take him
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: off the tackle track right now.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I'm putting him at left guard.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Either way. And as Morgan Moses is maybe teetering a
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Again, so you're going to, he's been working at right tackle. Yeah.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: You're now going to move him. Inside to left guard.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: We saw him do some left guard in practice, though. Very,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: very briefly.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: But we did see it.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Very briefly.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: But those were the practices that we were able to see.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: That's fair.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: He might have been doing it more in other days.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: That was back in the spring.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: It was. And then.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: At a moment's notice.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not asking him to do it like Sunday.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: No, no. I'm saying, so you're going to take him
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: from the position he's been working at where he's not
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: probably developed to the point where he needs to be.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: To have him go play in another position he's never
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: really played before. Knowing that, well, he's there at a
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: moment's notice. because your 35-year-old right tackle has a foot
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: injury and isn't playing well, he might need to go back.
• 34:05
  Speaker 7: No, no.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: If they're going to put him in at left guard,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: he's playing left guard. If Morgan Moses gets hurt, then
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: you have Rouse, you have Crown.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: You have whoever. Well, now it's a mess. At that point,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I would say it's a mess.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: If they have two starters both go down with serious
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: injuries like Moses and Onwenu, that's tough. They're going to
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: be kind of messy.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I think you have to keep Lomu working at right
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: tackle unless it's an absolute emergency.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: We're getting there. I mean, it's not been good.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: No, I mean like just pure not number of bodies emergency.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Fair enough.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Because you have to continue to look at the– like
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: you start, okay, you're going to play left guard and
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: you're going to right tackle. Like now you're talking about
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the Caden Wallace development plan.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'm just not as panicky about doing
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: all that.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I'd feel better if Lomu looked better at right tackle,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: I guess. Some of it is how he's looked at right.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: If he looked fine at right tackle, I'd be like,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: all right, he's got that down. Yeah, move him to guard.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: And if he needs to move back, he can do that.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: It's about how he's looked at right tackle as part
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: of this take.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Fair enough. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: be right back.
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  Speaker 2: All right. A couple more things. One more thing on
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: the offense. And then I want to talk about some
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: of the things defensively. How concerned what's our temperature check
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: on the wide receiver room and just the pass catchers
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: in general? Because I would say that it's to me
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: like it just doesn't feel detailed enough. No, like it's
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: not that they don't ever pop an explosive or get
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: some separation or every once in a while. It's not
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: that like there are, when you watch the tape, you
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: do see open receivers at times, but it just doesn't
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: feel buttoned up. Like it feels like everybody's not exactly
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: where the quarterback is expecting him to be. And there's
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: a lack of trust there and all those different types
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: of things. Like I continue and I don't have the playbook.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know for a fact if he's running wrong routes,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: but I continue to wonder with pop Douglas, like how
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: precise he's being sometimes with his landmarks. It's just all
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: of the above.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it starts with Romeo Dobbs. he still
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: looks like he's fighting the offense. Yeah. And that's not,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: he needs to be the number one receiver right now.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: And that's not great. Pop Douglas has been inconsistent. I,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: whatever the Efton Chisholm experiment is, was he's failed to
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: look at. I think some of it too, you know,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I talked about this last year, Efton Chisholm and Kyle
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Williams have not played a lot of football with Drake May. Yeah.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: So their timing is going to be off. Those are
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: not guys that work with the ones a lot and
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: you're kind of seeing it. So, And Kyle Williams, like,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: there's some detail issues there, not just on offense, and
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: we'll get to it and stuff that gets you beat.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: But he needs to learn where the sideline is and
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: what the penalties are for that. But, yeah, I think
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you're seeing some guys that didn't play a lot with
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: the ones, and it looks like they didn't play a
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: lot with the ones. Mike Vrabel preaches a lot, preparing
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: like you're a star. starter. They're down to some backups
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: now at receiver, admittedly, and it looks like it. And
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: you're not seeing that level of detail that comes with
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the starter, and you'd like to lean on your starters more.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: I think Matt Collins' stupid penalty aside has actually been solid.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I have no problem with Matt Collins. Romeo Dobbs looks lost.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: He looks like he did early in training camp. And
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: I mentioned this at the time. This was my worry.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: They had him running a lot of stuff early in
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: camp that wasn't his traditional route tree. It felt like
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: they were trying to plug him into the digs role.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: When he got better in the second half of camp,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: they took him off that stuff and had him running
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the route tree. He ran more in Green Bay, which great.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: But I remember saying at the time, like, so is
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: this just, are they going to have two vertical receivers
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: now or? Was this just to get his confidence up
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: and now they're going to put him back into the
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: other stuff and we'll see how it goes. It feels
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: like they've put him back into some of the dig
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: stuff and it's not working again. So he's, he's fighting
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: it right now.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: It seems like, yeah, I, I, I wonder with Dobbs
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: how much of this is they had a plan that
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: they built up in training camp to have him be
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: sort of the Z where A.J. Brown was playing the X.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Now they don't have A.J. Brown. So now they need
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: him to be like a vertical X. And I do
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: think that he operates more naturally on a vertical plane,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: but I still don't think it's a pure vertical threat
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: that he's very good at, like breaking down at the
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: top of the route, out routes, digs, comebackers, back shoulders,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: like that sort of stuff. And I know Nate Tice
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: had the numbers about like how many out routes he's
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: running and the lack of out routes he's running compared
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: to what he was doing in Green Bay. Like those
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: are the types of things that he's best at, but
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: they don't really have anybody to play consistently on the
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: outside without A.J. Brown.
• 41:14
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: So like now I feel like they had to move
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: him kind of out of position in a lot of ways,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: not to mention where he is in the hierarchy of
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: the offense, too, is now out of whack. So all
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: of this, like with the receivers, you know, I think
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of people right now are lamenting, you know,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: digs booty, like moving on from those guys, which I
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: think is fair in terms of where they're at right now.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: But how much would we be feeling that if AJ
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Brown never gets hurt? I, some, I don't know.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I still think with the Drake may issues go beyond
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: AJ Brown. It wouldn't be, it probably wouldn't feel as bad.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Like they, he's a big part of the picture and
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: you need to acknowledge that. But you know, Drake may
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: throw in a very, not even contested coverage, throwing two
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: defenders on the goal line.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Does it matter if AJ Brown's on the field or not?
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Like maybe it gives them another option, but that just
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: seems like a processing thing.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: But I think there's always like a domino effect, right?
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: There's definitely a domino effect.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Having the number one guy, having a guy that has,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: that garners number one attention that can make number one
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: receiver plays like just elevates the whole thing. Like we've
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: done this before where they don't truly have a number
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: one receiver. To me, it doesn't really work.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: But it's never looked this bad.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: No.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that like, I don't know. I
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: know Diggs was the volume guy last year, but the
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: guy that was playing the A.J. Brown role was Keyshawn Booty.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Keyshawn Booty missed, I think, five or six games last year.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: That might be overshooting a little bit. I think he
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: played 13.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: He missed a few. It never got this bad without him.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not going to get this bad without him.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: No offense to Keyshawn Booty.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: No, but I'm saying if that's the role that Drake
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Mays is missing... Like, he's played without a guy in
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: that role before.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Hollins has kind of filled that void
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: last year, I would say.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Well, he had Diggs, and he does it now.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Right, with, like, a sprinkle of Kyle Williams being that, like,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: vertical outside guy. So, you know, maybe... I don't know.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I just think that it's convenient now to say... they
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: should have kept Diggs when you don't have A.J.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Brown.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Like, if A.J. Brown was healthy, I'm not saying that
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: they'd be the number one scoring offense in the league,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: but that's really not apples to apples.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: No, I think that is the comparison. I think, look,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: lament the Keishon Booty trade all you want. I'm not
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: saying it was a home run of a trade, but
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: they still have Matt Collins in that role. Keishon Booty
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: was the swap for Romeo Dobbs, which is a little
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: bit of a square peg in a round hole. That's
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: the guy they're missing. I don't think they miss A.J.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Brown as much right now because, like I said, Matt
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Collins is playing fine. Like, they'd be bad with A.J. Brown.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong.
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: But.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: It's who's the guy that can run a return route
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: or quick out and just get open at six yards,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: fall forward for four and get the first down and
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: keep the chains moving and do it every time. And
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Drake may just knows no matter what's happening, I'm going
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: to have this guy at the sticks. Just the guy
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: that's going to help him in the offense, get in
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: a rhythm, stay ahead of the chains, all that. They
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: don't have that guy right now. That's what digs was.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: That's what they miss. They miss the guy that's keeping
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: them on schedule.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: I don't, I guess maybe I think A.J. Brown is
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: more of that guy too. I think A.J. Brown's all
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: of it. And I think that A.J. Brown, healthy, it
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: just changes a lot. And so I understand talking about
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: the personnel stuff and missing digs and all that kind
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: of stuff. I just don't think that it's an apples-to-apples
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: comparison because the guy that you brought in to replace
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: the volume that digs left behind is on injured reserve.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I think Dobbs was a bigger part of that picture
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: than you're giving credit for. I think you're talking, like, role? No,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I think Dobbs was going to have more volume, too.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I know role, but I think with that role comes
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: a certain amount of volume.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Right, because A.J. Brown is the one drawing the attention
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: of the defense.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I guess. Diggs was drawing the attention last year. He still,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: until the playoffs, made plays.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then when they got to the playoffs and
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: played better defense, what happened?
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: I still think they missed Diggs.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: Moving over to the defense... A couple of things defensively.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Number one, this was not a chunk player, explosive play
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: run offense for Jacksonville this week, but they were just methodical.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Like they were just five, six, seven yards.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Off the ball.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. No, no other things, elements there. They had
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: 14 successful runs in this game, zero tackles for loss.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: So it was all just moving forward. Their rushing success
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: rate was 52%. That's just, it was just like a
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: slow methodical burn. And it wasn't, he only had two
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: and only had one run over 10 yards in the game.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't like they were hitting these 40, 50-yard
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: runs a pop. They were just going four, five, six
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: yards at a time. The one position specifically I wanted
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: to zoom in on, you talk about missing digs. Low-key,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: really missing Kyrus Tonga, or at least a player.
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Yes. A real nose tackle.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No disrespect to Corey Durden. In two out of
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: three games, it hasn't looked good with him playing as
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: a true nose. I don't know what they do to
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: mitigate that. They don't really have a guy that I
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: don't think they have a guy on the roster that's
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: good enough to play in that spot over Durden. Maybe
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Daquan Jones.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Kind of hope it would be him.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: He's not even him though. He's like three 20.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Like, and I know that's big, but it's not, and
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: he's an older guy.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's not like he's like that wide body run
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: stuffing nose. I just watching the Jaguars run wide zone
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: and just combo the nose tackle with the center and
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: the guard just consistently and get consistent cutbacks and have to,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: and just riding the cutback over and over again. The
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: middle of the defensive lines got to be stouter against
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: the run. There's no doubt about it.
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: And just, just on the Jags, like, when we talk
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: about the Patriots having a better run game, that's what
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: we're talking about. I think people measure it. Like they
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: look at the run trade on Henderson had against the Steelers, right?
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: That's nice. That's not what makes it makes a successful
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: run game. It's the four to five yards of pop.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: That's what they can't do right now.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Yep. Uh, last thing on the defense, just the zone coverages, uh,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: the zone coverages got, got picked apart by Trevor Lawrence
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: in this game.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Why, why did they play so much zone?
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: So my guess is to why they played so much
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: zone is, Condensed formations. So the Jaguars run a lot
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: of condensed formations. They're a West Coast team. They're a
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Shanahan type of team. When you run those condensed formations,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: it creates a lot of traffic. So you can just
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: really pick off guys easily in man-to-man coverage. And then
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: they also run a lot of motion. So if you're
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: going to face a team that plays with that much motion,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: then are you matching the motion in man? Are you
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: passing it? Are you bumping it? How are you responding
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: to the motion? And then you've got guys just going
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: across the field this way and that way, and you're
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: just running all over the place. The last thing I
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: would say, if you're going to play a ton of
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: man coverage, it's five guys that need to be able
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: to cover, not just three. So who's covering the tight end?
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Who's covering the back? And without Craig Woodson, did they
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: feel great about Brenton Strange kicking out of the backfield?
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: So that's something that I think that doesn't get enough
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: credence when you talk about man coverage. You look at
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: the receivers and you look at the corners. But how
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: do you cover the fourth and the fifth guy is
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: important as well.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: So you think they're going to play a lot of
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: zone against Buffalo because it's kind of a similar problem.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I hope Craig Woodson's healthy because I don't think that
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: zone's going to work against Buffalo either, although the Chargers,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: they did a little bit better in their zones, but
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: they're a zone team. That's sort of what they do,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: and that's how they coach it. All right, let's get
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: to the stuff that gets you beat. I think these
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: are all pretty obvious. One of them I did want
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: to talk about a little bit longer. I don't know
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: how much talking about Drake Mays turnovers we really need
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: to do. They just can't happen. The blood fumble is
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: what I'm calling it.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: The blood fumble.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: Footballs get stuff on them.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You just can't slip it out of your hands.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: It's not even, again, I got accused of making excuses
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: for him because I went and I found the picture.
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I was just curious how much blood was on the ball,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: and it's not that much.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: It's not. You can't have that as an excuse. I
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: would also say I wonder a little bit if there
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: was some hesitation and he almost was trying to pull
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: it down.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: The safety starts down and then he drops out. Now
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: the safety wasn't going to be a factor. The safety
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: was poaching, looking to the other side of the formation.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: So it was still a go ball look, I would say,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: but I don't think that he got the exact look
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: he was expecting. I don't think Kyle Williams went off
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: the line as cleanly as he was expecting. And then
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: I think the safety dropped into the deep part of
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: the field. And I think it was a little bit
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: muddier just looking at it. Once he popped up and
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: looked down the field, then he thought it was going
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: to be. And I wonder if there was just like
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: a moment's, for Drake May to throw that ball. I
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: still would have liked to have seen him just throw it.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Obviously better than fumbling it, but just in general, I
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: would have liked to have seen him throw it. The
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: pick on the goal line is just....
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: What makes that so tough is he's now a mistake repeater.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: That's essentially the same mistake he made in Seattle. The
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: stakes were not quite as high, but clock running down,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: you have points in your back pocket. Just don't risk
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: the football and It's not even really a risk. I
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: don't know what he thought that throw was going to do.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Afton Chisholm is not out of his break. He's not
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: looking at him. Travis Hunter is basically square to the football.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: My thought, honestly, at first was he tried to throw
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: it away and didn't get enough on it. Like, I
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: don't really know what the end goal was. I don't
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: know how that throw works out positively.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: So I think that he I guess the only thing
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: that I could think of as an explanation is he
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: thought that if he threw it back shoulder to Chisholm,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: that Hunter would just drive by. Maybe, but Hunter.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Has eyes on him and Chisholm doesn't.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: It was not a.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: No, it's a non-competitive throw.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then... We can talk about the play call.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: They're running that fast to the flat boot, which every
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: team runs now, short yardage and goal line, where instead
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: of really executing the handoff, the back just releases right
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: out of the backfield into the flat. And the Jaguars
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: just sorted it out well. They switched it instead of
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: trying to match the running back.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: With the linebacker. They did what the Patriots couldn't do
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: on the fourth and one against Seattle, right? That was
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: basically the same play.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Well, yeah, kind of. Obviously, they
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: threw the curl behind it. You're talking about.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: It's the same idea.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Same concept, I should say.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Not the same play, but the same concept.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: And so the second read there, it's to Stephenson to Chisholm,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: and he just threw it.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: As Alex Van Pelt said, that ball's got to hit
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the tuba player.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Then the Kyle Williams interception. I put still
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: some of it on Drake May. Like, you can't just
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: throw it.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a little late, right, would you say?
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: It's late. It's inside.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, inaccurate.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I would also say Kyle Williams, you got to run
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: the corner off. Like, it's a bad route.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Just call it what it is. Like, I'd say 75%
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: of it is that he's throwing it kind of anticipating
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: that Kyle Williams is going to separate at the top
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: of that route on the comeback. or the stop route.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: And Kyle Williams just never runs the corner off. And
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: it just is not, it's telegraphed. It doesn't do anything
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: to the corner. So that, that was just not a
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: good route. I would put that mostly on Kyle Williams,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: although I don't, I never absolve a quarterback.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: It's not a great throw from Drake May either.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The second thing on my list, Just situational football.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: End of the first half, the red zone and third
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: down discrepancy. The Jaguars were five for five in the
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: red zone and eight for 12 on third down offensively.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Eight for 12 on third down. The Patriots are four
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: of 12 and over three in the red zone. And,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: of course, they have the bone opportunity at the end
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: of the half. You're just not going to win a
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: lot of football games with that kind of discrepancy.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: No, and there's other stuff to it as well. I mean,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: bad penalties. The penalties are about equal between the two teams.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: But the timing of the– I mean, how many– this
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: is multiple games now they've had back-to-back penalties. And I
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: talked about it earlier, the inability to capitalize after a
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: big play and some of the situational stuff. Kyle– and
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I know the game's out of reach, but guys let
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: go of the rope at the end of that game.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Which is a little worrying to me. It's never too early.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: He'd be down 50. It's never too early to start
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: cleaning things up. You shouldn't have the mentality, oh, this
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: game's over. It doesn't matter. Like, Kyle Williams fielding the
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: kickoff that's going to go out of bounds. That costs
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: you 31 yards of field position.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Stepping out of bounds, losing track of the sideline when
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: he should have had a touchdown.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: That Mack Hollins penalty at the end of the game. Look,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: play with emotion. I'm all for that. You didn't even
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: get the first down.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Finish the game.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: And a fourth and one that they probably go for,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: and at least maybe get in the end zone and
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: salvage a little bit, becomes a fourth and 16. Like,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: why are you taunting down 25? So there were just,
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: you know, mental mistakes like that. They had some bad
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: offsides penalties on defense. Like, not bad in terms of
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: it was.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Could you hear on the TV broadcast, and I probably
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: should have pulled it up, was Lawrence playing with the cadence?
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Because they jumped offsides back-to-back plays.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Vrabel said he was. Yeah, I don't know.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: You can usually hear that. Like, you know, like... Either
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: going on, you know, like that thing.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're doing the cadence.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: We're getting somebody to jump.
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'd assume a little bit, but still,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: it's like, look at the ball, right?
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: You know, you're, yeah, it's a tough one. The untimely,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: second week in a row, can't capitalize on the big plays.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Untimely penalties. Just when they need, they're at their, they're
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: the sloppy. This is, I made this comparison last night.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: And it mainly applies to the offense, but some of
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: the defense. People think bad Patriots offense and they go
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: back to the end of Mac Jones in the first
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: year of Drake May in three and out punt, three
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: and out punt, three and out punt.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: This isn't that. This is not. This is one step forward,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: two steps back. That was just no steps. And that's
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: not to say that that's better or worse, but like
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: they are making plays here and there. It's the way
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: they shoot themselves in the foot immediately after doing so
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: that's so frustrating because you see the potential. You see
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: the flashes of what could be there. It's just so intermittent,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: and it's usually followed by them crashing back down to Earth.
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Last thing. What's your concern level right now with the kicker?
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Because missing 38 yards is not great.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Not great.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: I'm probably one miss away from bringing in guys for workouts.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not totally there yet. He had a slow start
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: last year, too. Maybe some of that is just it
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel as.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: The other one that he banged through, too, did not
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: come off his foot right.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Maybe it just doesn't feel as bad because of everything
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: else that's going on. And it's like, you wish Andy
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Borgals was... If Andy Borgals was their biggest problem right now,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: they'd be in much better shape. But... No, like, yeah,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: we're getting there. We're getting to that conversation. I'm not
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: fully there yet, but it's on the radar.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: All right. Thursday's show is one of my favorite shows
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: of the year. We get to do this twice, and
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: it's the best part of Catch-22, in my opinion. It's
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: the Bills week.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: We're going to get Alex fired up about the Buffalo Bills.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I just wish we got to break down Bruins Avalanche.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: We already did it.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: In our fake pre-production meeting before the show, we are
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: already arguing about the Bills and Josh Allen. So I
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: just can't wait for Thursday. It's going to be great.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: This is going to be must-watch podcasting because it is
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Bills week. So Alex and I will be back on
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Thursday on Catch-22, same time, 10 a.m. on Thursday morning,
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: to preview a trip to the new Orchard Park to
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: take on the Buffalo Bills. PU will be on in
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: about four minutes at 11 at the top of the hour.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: So I'll see you guys then. And Alex and I
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: will see you on Thursday. Thanks for watching.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: If you really want to help us, make sure you
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: like us wherever you get your podcasts, like Apple Podcasts
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: or Spotify. Also, make sure you follow us on the
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: New England Patriots YouTube channel to see this show and.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Everything else that we do here at the Patriots.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Thanks a lot.