Latest / Foul Territory / Eno Sarris: Juan Soto's declining bat speed, Pitchers with HYPE

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Eno Sarris: Juan Soto's declining bat speed, Pitchers with HYPE · Foul Territory

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: But I don't think we're gonna see the forty homer
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: long so doo again unless you know this, Batspeed's kind
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: of returns all right.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: You know Sorrus from the Athletic joining us right now.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Also can hear him almost daily on rates and barrels,
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: which I'm a big fan of. You know, great to
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: have you on here. I wanted to start with your
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: young pitching article, and obviously you know that's the freshest one,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: so let's start there.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: What stands out?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: What are a couple of names that we should be
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: keeping an eye on from the national perspective here?
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think Jack Lighter is one of
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: my favorites, just because I always fall in love with
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: these guys that have a ton of stuff and not
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: great command. But the reason that I see hope for
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Jack Lighter is it's kind of a revamped arsenal, Like
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: he's throwing a sinker now and he's starting to really
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: throw the slider like thirty percent of the time, and
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: those are pitches I think he can command. So I
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: kind of think that that's the way for for him,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: is just not scessarily, just like bride a command before Seane,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe he can't. Maybe it's fine pitches you can command
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and throw those more often, and so I think that
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: there's a way forward for him that will kind of
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: capitalize on that draft status and all that upside that
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: he has. You know, there's another guy in Will Warren
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: right now that's kind of putting it together in the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: way that I'd hoped these pieces about young pitchers that
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: have stuff and need to figure out how to put
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: it together. Warren's stuff doesn't play as well against lefties,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: but what we've seen recently is he's throwing a ton
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: of curves and he's not throwing as many fastballs against lefties,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: and so he's basically basically just going with a full
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: junk approach against lefties, and I think it's working. You know,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: all his pitches bend a lot, and as long as
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: he doesn't give the lefties a nice straight one to hit,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I think he can get through the lineup a bunch
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: of times. He has a big arsenal and apparently new
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: story on the Athletic garret hole is in his ear
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: telling him how to kind of put it all together.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And Clark Schmid is a similar pitcher, So there are
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: ways for him to kind of learn from the guys
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: around him.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: So you wrote a lot. I read this earlier and
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I actually like kind of went back because there was
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: a lot to unfold here, which is pretty interesting to me.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: It's the era the guys this is just incredible. They
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: have such they're doing, They have good stuff, but the
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: era is so much higher than what it should be
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: and what it should show. You talk about the zone here,
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: the waist zone. You know, tell us a little about
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: what you got on the waist zone and you know
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: the minus strikeouts minus walk rate. Go over a little
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: bit of you know, looking at Jack Leder as the
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: guy you talk about his waist zone and the strike
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: minus zone. Give a little bit about that a little
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: bit so people can understand where you're talking from.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think as a hitter, you probably remember,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: you know, non competitive pitches, you know, pitches that didn't
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: change anything for you as they hear you were just like,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: you know, that doesn't you know, I never thought I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: was going to swing at that, you know, and it
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: doesn't change anything, like, oh, it doesn't set anything up
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: because that was just a non competitive pitch and that's
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: the wasist zone. Those are pitches that are not in
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: the shadow. The shadow is this zone that's around the
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: strike zone that's sort of like you know, two or
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: three inches in and out of the strike zone. Those
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: are competitive pitches. That's where you want to be. Jack
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Lider's fastball is too often in the wasist zone. He's
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: in the bottom fifth of the league when he throws
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: this fastball. You know, in terms of wasting fastballs. Other
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: guys that do it as often to him, Luis Artiz
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: with the Guardians, Dylan Ceese who doesn't have great forcing
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: fastball command if he does have success. So you know,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: it is about you know, stuff over command with Jack Lder.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: But that's how it kind of plays out, is that
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: you just basically waste pitches that that don't do anything,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: don't further what you're trying to do with the batter.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: The batter never thinks that they're going to swing at
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: it and uh and so I think I think that's
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a that's a sign that like he needs to look
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: elsewhere for ways to to kind of improve. And I
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: think that's why the sinker and the uh, the slide
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: are so important. You know, another thing that we use
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: to kind of predict if pictures are going to be
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: good or not. One of the most predictive stats is
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: strikeout minus walk rate, and that just works because they're
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: controlling the zone. You know, they're they're striking guys out there,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: not walking guys. That's just really predictive. His is not
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: great there because of the walk rates too high. But
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I think he's uncovered the way to attack the walk
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: rate in the new Arsenal.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: Okay, so I I was trying to text al lighter
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: all this stuff. You're gonna have to after the show.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: We'll talk a little bit more. Ok.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got people in the deer and and there's
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: doen a lot of work, and you know, I think
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: that you know, he's he's really simplified his delivery. I
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: think the next X part is identifying the pitches he
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: can command best and using those the most.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you about one more picture. Then
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: we'll get to the Batspeed conversation. Shane boz Ere not pretty.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Stuff plus results look really good, So what's happening here?
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: You know? I think one of the things that I've
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: tried to put into the model, the stuff plus model,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: to make it more predictive. It hasn't worked yet, but
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I think I use it in my analysis, which is
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: how many pitches do you have? You know? And and
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Shane is largely a two pitch pitcher in the fastball
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: and curve. When he throws the slider, he throws it
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: middle middle, and so you know, I think as a hitter,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you can kind of pigeonhole a guy. You can keyhole
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: a guy if he's just four seams high and curveballs low,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: then you kind of have this if it's high, let
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: it fly philosophy, and you don't really have to cover
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: the whole plate. And so Shane Boz the fast looks
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: good in a vacuum, the curveball looks good in a vacuum.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: He needs something else, like he the slider goes middle
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: middle and it gets it's getting beat up right now.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: It's got like an ops over thirteen hundred against his slider.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: It's not really the solution. I think a sinker could help,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe a cutter, something that he can throw that isn't
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: just the forceingm and the curveball. There's something you could
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: maybe do on the fly. I'm sure he's thrown a
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: sinker before, and he's thrown a cutter before, and as
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: possible for him to kind of break that out. But
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: just being forcing curveball, what you see is when you
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: have just two pitches like that, they put so much
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: pressure on them being elite. Think about Spencer Strider. He
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: had to be so good at the force, singment and
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: slider when he only had two pitches that you know
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: that worked for him. But there are other guys where
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: if you're just not as good at one of those pitches,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: then batters are like, that's the one I want. I'm
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: gonna wait till I get that one, and fifty percent
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of the time I'm gonna get that one. So I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: think he needs to diversify his arsenal and spread it
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: out a little bit ft.
• 7:06
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• 8:06
  Speaker 4: You wrote an article about Wan Soto and it's bat
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: speed diminishing a little bit, and you wrote, is it
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: a big deal? Is it not? It looks like like
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: two point six miles per hour on the average down
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: for him. Is it that big of a deal? Are
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: we looking too much into this?
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, when a lot of these new batspeed
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: numbers that have come out, we've just got you know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: stuff about attack angle and tilt and all these new
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: numbers are out of Savant And one of the things
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: that that is not obvious right away is that these
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: are timing stats, so they measure bat speed at the
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: point of contact. Now, let's say you have a really
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: long swing like gian Carlos Stanton or Hovey Baias, then
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have more bat speed because you've had longer
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of a swing to get to that point. So if
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: you get the ball out in front and you have
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: a long swing, your bat speed's automatically going to be higher.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: What we're seeing from Soto is I think last year
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: with the Yankee Stadium, he saw that left field, he
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: went and got the ball, His point of contact was
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: out in front of his body more than it ever
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: had been. His swing was longer, and so his bat
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: speed was higher just because he was getting the ball
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: out in front and it was being measured at a
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: different point. On the other hand, even if you account
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: for those things, his swing is a little bit slower
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: this year, and it really started out like terribly and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: has gotten a little bit better since. But he still
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: hasn't gotten back to where he was last year. So
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: the way I look at it is he's still elite
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: with the eye. He's still amazing with the eye, and
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: that's going to make him age really well. Think about
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: how well Joey Vado aged and how his eye kept
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: him productive even as he was getting older. So having
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: a great eye is a really good thing to bet
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: on long term. But I don't think we're going to
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: see the forty homer Juan Soto again unless you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: this bat speeds kind of returns because the upper end power,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the home run swings, they come on faster swings. It's
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: like you get twice as many homers on seventy three
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and seventy four mile hour swings, then you get on
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you know, seventy mile hour swings, and so you know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: it does mean something that he's lost bat speed. It
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: probably means he's lost that sort of elite upper end power.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: But can he hit you know, thirty two thirty four
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: homers this year have a OBP of like four to
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: twenty and you know, be one of the best hitters
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: in the game. Yeah, I think he still can be.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I want to try and take what Eno
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: said and then bring it to you, right, because part
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: of what he said is, hey, I mean, the longer
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: swing does give you more leverage to bring your bat
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: down and have more bad speed. So if you're Soto
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: and you're listening to this stuff. Or let's say it's
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: you right, you were soda. You last year hit forty
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: this year on pace for like twenty two. A lot
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: of the other numbers, at least, you know, the front
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: facing stats, batting average, on base whatever look pretty similar,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: but your power is not the same. Would you take
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: any of this and say, hey, let me work on
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: lengthening because sometimes this guy swings too long.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: So how do we solve this.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: Well, I wouldn't say lengthening. I would say shorten up.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I would say there's an opportunity. Maybe don't go too
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: far down on the bat, maybe choke up a little bit,
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: practicing on keeping your hands inside the ball a little more.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: I always did a drill where I have a tee
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: close to the home plate. If I got long before
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: I hit the ball, I'm going to hit that tee.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: So you bring the tea pretty much a bat's length
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: away of your bat, and you try and stay short,
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: short and sweet to the ball, and hopefully that translates
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: to the game. There's a lot of drills you can do,
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: but it's a matter of getting rest, eating right, you know,
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: getting the weight room as much as you can, and
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: being a professional, you know, at this point it's hard
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: to do and then the pressures that sometimes it's up
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: here too as well.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there were other guys you know on your
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: list too, So anybody else stand out? I mean I
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: saw the only guy who's had a bigger drop off
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Josh Naylor, and I'm like, I think Josh Naylor's having
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: a decent season, and I look him up. I'm like, yeah,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: he's having a pretty good year results wise, So is
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: there anything to that story?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there is a correlation between bad speed
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and swinging mess and so you know what, while you
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: know it can be you know, not great for your
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: upper end power numbers to lose to lose bad speed,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: it can mean more contact. Lindor's having a fine beginning
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: of the season. Shae Langliers has cut his strikeout rate
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: from above like worse than average to like a really
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: good number. I think he's at like sixteen percent strikeout.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: It's like almost a breakout for Shae Langlers. But one
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: thing you'll notice that the Shane Langlers was an elite
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: territory and now he's in above average territory. So it's
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: not dropping off in a way that so it's a
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: little bit more worrisome for like Andrew McCutcheon who went
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: from pretty good bad speed to now below average bat speed.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: And for Naylor, you know, I think if he's he's
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: always had like this good contact for power, maybe it's
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: fine for him. So the thing that's so hard about
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: these numbers is that there is no like one number
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: that's like that is good and this is bad. You know,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I will just say that the when you talk about
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: like hitting a ball one hundred and twenty miles an hour,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: like John Carlos Stanton does, what do you have to
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: do to hit the ball one hundred and twenty miles
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: an hour? You have to swing the bat seventy five
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: miles an hour, you know. And so there is a
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: relationship between the top end power. Now, you know, Colton
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Cowser last year actually started swinging a heavier bat and
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: it slowed his bat down a little bit and that
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: left him in the zone longer, and it cut down
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: some of his swing and miss and that was good
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: for him because he was swinging missing too much. So
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: there's like this relationship between how much contact you make
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: and how much power you make that you can play
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: around with and you know those drills are are a
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: great way. Like by the way, like choking up with
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the bat increases bat speed for sure. And you know
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: why do those people have those hockey pucks on the bottom.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: It's about changing the relationship of the of the weight
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: on your on your on your bat to speed your
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: bat up. Now, putting a hockey puck on the bottom
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: will speed your bat up, but it'll put less mass
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: at the point of contact. Like the torpedo bats are
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: all about putting more mass at the point of contact.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: So we're sciencing this stuff up and we're learning about
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: it in the public. I think we're three or four
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: years behind what teams know. But you know it is
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: first of all, it's not easy to just say this
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: number good, this number bad. And then lastly, a lot
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: of this stuff is about timing. If you think about
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: the swing, it's flat through the zone and then it
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: comes up because that everybody finishes up. That's why it's
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: good to get the ball out in front for power,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: because you're flat through the zone and then you kind
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: of come up on the ball out in front. Homers,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: you know, ninety percent of homers are hit out in
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: front of the plate. And so you know that's a
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: timing issue too. So there you have more bat speed
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: when you're out there because you're you've had more time
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to get there. So I mean, it's it's I know
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: it's it sounds confusing, but batspeed is good for power,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: bad for contact. And you know, some guys can cut
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: down on bat speed and get it's good for them,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: but generally it cuts down in your upside for hitting
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: the ball super super hard.
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: It's an opposite field swing. When I say opposite field,
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: I don't mean to pitch away. They have to hit
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: it away. Is an opposite field swing generally across the board,
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: a slower swing than a swing that is pulled feet.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, in the way it's measured, right, But I don't Yeah,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: but I don't think. I don't think it is like
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: we we need to come up with some sort of
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: acceleration number, some sort of number that gives us bat
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: speed where that's not true. But the way it is now, yes,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: an opposite field swing will register less because the point
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: of contact is deeper, and so your bat hasn't had
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: as much time to get up to full speed.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Ah Okay, So I want to spend this to you know,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: a global perspective, right, I think we got pretty granular
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: on bat speed, Like what should I don't want to
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: say just like a little league or just play ball,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: but what should an aspiring pro be doing with data
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: like this? You know, and really just observing how major
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: league hitters are treating data like this, right, whether you're
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: a college player or a super competitive prospect in high school,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: minor leaguer, do you think there's pros and cons here
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: even to the injury component?
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I mean we're in a world for the past what
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: ten to fifteen years now where velocity gets rolled over
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: almost anything and has certainly led to more injuries. Could
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: we see something like that occur if guys are doing
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: too much to try and increase bat speed.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I do think that's a risk. You
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: have somebody like Tristan Casss, you know, turning so fast
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: that he has like a cartilage injury that they said
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: was like a car crash inside his in his ribs.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: You know, Like, I'm not I'm not singling him out.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying he turns really super fast and it
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: led to an injury. Obliques, obliques are you know? I
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: think there's a year of a year, just more and
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: more oblique injuries among hitters and pitchers as they turn
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: super fast to throw the ball hard and to hit
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the ball hard. It is a risk. It is the
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: turning sport where we're pushing our pitch, our hid pitchers
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: and hitters to turn as fast as possible, as fast
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: as the human body can, and we're gonna we're gonna
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: get injuries. But I would tell that a young hitter
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that it is similar to pitching in that if you
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: want to play in the big leagues, you gotta hit,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you gotta be able to swing the bad at least
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: seventy miles an hour. You know. It's like if you
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: want to pitch in the big leagues, you got to
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you gotta be able to throw the ball at least
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: ninety three miles an hour ninety I mean, if you
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: want to get drafted in the first round you get,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you gotta throw at ninety six ninety seven, you know.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: And so I would say that bad speed matters. But
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's also like pitch speed where it's like
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: build the engine and then be able to get good
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: bat speed without cheating to get it, Like don't you
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: don't have to like fly open and just pull that
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: bat through just to make the number go big. You know,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: do it within your mechanics. Do it if you're a pitcher,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: do it with good mechanics. Do it so that you
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: can throw easy cheese. Like do the same thing when
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: you're hitting, be able to swing the bat really fast
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: in a controlled way that still allows you to make contact.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: But realize, the guys in the pros swing the bat
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: faster than the guys in college, swing the bat faster
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: than the guys in high school. And if you want
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: to advance, you got to have the bat.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Speed one more real quick. Because I'm fascinated by this stuff.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's a conversation like this right now
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: with max exit velocity right, like how hard can this
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: guy hit the boll?
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: I mean EB, but also max EB right? Have you
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: seen that really track that they do?
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Like what's my ceiling? Because well, but why do they
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: track that?
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Is it because front offices on something like that?
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Rob, So if you know, I just talked to
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Jordan Lawler and I was like, you hit a ball
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: hard and he's like one hundred and eleven. I know,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: it was like, and he's like knew exactly what ball
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I was talking about, and it was the best ball
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: he'd hit, And that changes his upside from if he's
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: hitting one hundred and nine miles an hour at his best,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: then he's probably like you judge him as like a
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: fifteen to eighteen homer hitter. But if he hits the
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: ball one hundred and eleven, maybe twenty two, maybe twenty three,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: you know, so it describes your raw power, and it's
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: really linked to that. Now, there are guys like Cabrian
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Hayes who have you know, hit the ball really hard,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: but not ever written able to lift it. And that's
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: why that's why I make the descincsion into raw power
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and game power. There are guys who don't hit the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: ball as hard as John Carlis Stanton, but hit a
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: lot of homers because they get to that, you know,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: they get to well, they hit the ball hard in
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the right angles. But you know, you hit a ball
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: one hundred and fifteen on the backfield, everybody notices. Everybody notices,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: everybody writes that down, every scout notices.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: And then then there's Chandler Simpson and Jacob Pulls and
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: some of these outliers right basically, you know, because I'm
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: sure you like these guys too. I'm just trying to
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: make sure that we don't lose those guys. I'm not
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: trying to be like, oh, almost so old school, but
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: it is fun to have some of these contact kings
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: within our sport to give a variety.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I love them, and you know, you know it's crazy that,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like Freddie Freeman is one of them, Luisa Rise.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: They have really short swings and slow swings by the stats,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: but I would point out they still swing at sixty eight,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: so you know, the bar for entry is still you know,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: around seventy miles an hour for the pros, even the
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: guys who swing it slow. But you know what they
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: do is they prioritize getting to the ball very quickly
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and making contact as opposed to maybe you know, having
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: a bit of a longer swing, having faster at contact
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: and you know, hitting the ball further. And I love that.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the many more, the more ways
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: there are to be a good baseball player, the better
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I think the sport is.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, better product coming from someone on the outside he
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: just wants to watch fun and be entertained.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, better product if we have a lot of variety.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: You know, this was great. Thank you check out you
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: know his article. Obviously we only got to a couple
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: of pictures. Go read the article in the Athletic for
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: the rest. You know, appreciate the time. Man, Good to
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: see you, Thanks guys.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: Crats. Any thoughts on some of the bat speed stuff.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's hard. That's something that's super hard for
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: me to compare to when I played, because they had
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: the uh blast motion, yeah, in sixteen when I got
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: to the Astros, and then I saw it some team
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: started implementing it or using it in like eighteen nineteen,
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: and that information was kind of demoralizing to me. It
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: was like, I get it, I'm a two hundred hitter
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: in the big leagues, but like, I feel like I'm
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: a pretty good player. I feel like I can play.
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: But then you put that stuff on and I'm like, oh,
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: maybe I shouldn't give them any more information. So I
• 22:14
  Speaker 5: was always I was always just just interested in knowing
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: they're just getting the information, they're gathering it. But how
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: are teams implementing it, How are players implementing it? How
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: I want to ask eno, Like a guy like Mookie
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: lost at fifteen twenty pounds, and he's talked about he
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: wants to get his bat speed back up. Then he
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: always talks about, you know, they are all these charts.
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: They always talk about dudes are aging, and that's what happens.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Your bat speed goes down.
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: So then how do guys continue to play, continue to
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: have power. I had the same amount of power as
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: I had when I was twenty two in the game,
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: So I don't know. I don't know how how to
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: implement the bat speed. And that's why I had so
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: many questions.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Is it fair to say that some you know, maybe
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: you're like a top prospect, just like one of those naturals,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: and then you can actually look at that and make tweaks,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: Now, Maybe I just I just don't want to see
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: a kid get on there and have a sixty four
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: mile hour batspeed and be like, well, you have no
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: chance of making the big leagues, like you know, you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: kind of said it there, and you're like maybe maybe,
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: Like it's not like I don't I don't know, I
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: don't know. I mean, he says it's a direct correlation,
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: but it's not like everybody has a chance to be
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: able to improve at things, and I just don't want
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: it to be just a definite no, you can't do it.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: And I want more Chandler Simpsons and he doesn't. He
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: doesn't hit those those metrics.