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Andy Stanley - REVERB Mastering Communication · Andy Stanley Sermons

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Hey, everybody, Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, the podcast designed
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to help leaders go further faster. And today we are launching a new format
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for the Indy Stanley Leadership Podcast. We're calling it Reverb. And these are
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going to be conversations that show up the week after our interviews with special guests,
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where Susie and I and I'll introduce you to Susie in just a moment,
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are going to sort of rehash the conversation and talk go a little bit
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deeper. And the reason is this, after we do a podcast with a
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guest, we sit around in the studio and we talk about it and there
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are so many takeaways and we've both thought we should have included that, we
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should have included that. So Susie came up with the idea of, hey,
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let's just create a week after podcast where we do exactly that. And
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for those of you who don't know Susie is our producer. You've heard me
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mention her name from time to time. She sits behind the glass and says,
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talk slower, start over. I don't think you meant to say it
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that way. She makes me much better than I actually am. And this
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was her idea. She's a longtime friend, she's actually my agent, and
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she's one of the smartest people I know. So when she's introduced the idea
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of reverb, we decided, well, since it's your idea, you have
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to participate. So welcome to this side of the glass. It's great to
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be on this side of the sound booth for once. I'm really looking forward
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to digging deeper into our topic every month. Well, good, so,
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tell us a little bit about what is reverb and what makes it different than
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our normal monthly leadership podcast. Sure so, as Andy said, this is
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the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast Reverb episode. It will drop the week after each
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month's new podcast offering and provide further insights and reflection on the topic that month.
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They'll be shorter, digestible episodes designed for the leader on the go in
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mind. Another way of saying it is, once the guest is no longer
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in the studio, we can talk about the guests rather than to the guest.
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We can say whatever we want, whatever we want. So that's what
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we're going to do today. And what better way to start this new format
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then with the conversation we had with John Maxwell last week on the topic of
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communication. Yeah, absolutely agreed. John's book, The Sixteen Undeniable Laws of
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Communication is really packed with great lessons on how to communicate effectively, and I
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loved your conversation with John about just three of them. So to get us
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started, one of the principles you discussed with John that stood out to me
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was a law of simplicity, which is communicators take something complicated and make it
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simple. And Andy, I think John and I both agree this is one
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of your superpowers. Well, can you walk our audience through how you create
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such memorable takeaways? Well, yes, and I'll tell you where it started.
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And for those most of our listeners know that, I'm a pastor and
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so many many years ago, when I was in graduate school, I was
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asked to speak at a chapel for a Christian school and I had this cool
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talk from an Old Testament story that was a lot of action, and thought
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this would be fascinating for these students. And so afternoon but four I was
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supposed to go the next morning to do this chapel. I'm looking at my
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notes and I'm thinking, they don't care about this. They have chapel every
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Friday. Somebody, they don't know comes in and talks about something they're not
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interested in, and I mean, I'll do my best to use my charisma,
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you know, to make this interesting. But I thought, I want
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them to take something away from this. So I sat there until I came
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up with and I never even heard anybody do this before. I thought,
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I got it. Again, these are high school students. I want to
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come up with one statement that I can just make stick and stick it in
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their mind. And so the story was about that, from time to time,
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we're asked to do things we don't understand, and sometimes you just have
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to do something whether you understand it or not, and then over time you're
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like, oh, now I understand, especially in environments where we're new,
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where it could be a new job, a new company, a new industry,
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or just growing up in a family where you know there's not frontal lobe
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development. You just need to obey your mother right and you'll this will make
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sense later. So this story was about that. So I came up with
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this phrase to understand why submit and apply? To understand why I submit and
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apply? So after I told this fascinating story from the Old Testament, I
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made that statement. I had every all the students repeat it three times and
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dismissed. So that's the end of that. But I thought, wow,
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that was fascinating. So I began thinking in terms of maybe there's a way
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to do that anytime I get it to speak. Well, two years later,
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I'm still in graduate school and I'm standing welcoming some college students into this
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environment where I was teaching college students. You know, they're just walking in.
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I don't know any of these students, and this kid stops and he
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looks at me. He just pointed at me, paused, and said,
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to understand, why submit and apply? Wow? So what I said?
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I said, Wow? I said, he said, he said, you
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came to my chat. He didn't remember my name. I guarantee you he
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did not remember the story. But that's stuck. And I remember thinking,
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that's what I want to do the rest of my life. Wow. So
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the point is memorable as portable, and as John talked about, if we
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want people to act on what we say, we have to make things actionable,
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which means we have to make them portable and memorable. So this is
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hard work. And you know, it's like watching a golfer, a professional
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golfer. You think it looks so easy. A professional tennis player looks so
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easy, right, There's nothing easy about it. They've spent hard work.
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It's hard. Yeah, we're seeing the result, not the process. So
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this is hard work, but it is worth it. And so I would
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just say to those of you who are whether you're doing a quarterly report,
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whether you're leading a board meeting, whether you're pitching an idea, anytime you
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can boil it down, as John and I talked about, especially if this
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is there's a takeaway, or you're trying to get your students, or you're
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trying to get people in your company or employees to do something. Make it
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simple grammatically, make it simple in terms of a statement. People do not
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remember paragraphs. They don't even remember long sentences. And we've talked about this
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on the podcast before. When you walk into a company and there's a mission
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statement painted on the wall and you have to stop and read and read and
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repair a paragraph, you're like, nobody, this isn't actionable. And maybe
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it's complete, it's thorough, it's true, but nobody's walking. This isn't
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front of mine to portable. It's not very portable unless it's in a card
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in your pocket. So all that to say, to answer your question,
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committing to it is probably ninety percent of it, and then finding it is
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the other ten percent. And it's never easy. I make it look easy
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because I've been doing it for years, but I know that I'm not finished
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preparing until there's something that I feel like I can make sticks. So John's
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good at that. Great communicators are good at that. But it's a discipline,
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but it's it's worth it. Yeah, I think I did not understand
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how much you put into it, But after almost two decades of working with
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you, I realize the amount of preparation and that you put in to the
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things that you make look so effortless. And I think that's really what you're
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driving at here is just the work up front is what makes it look effortless.
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And I do wonder if you're talking about my high school, because you
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know, you could have been at my high school when that story, but
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you never know. I was in Dallas. You're in Dath Dallas. In
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graduate school. Well, a recent example in this, I think teases out
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how this could work. I meet with a team of people to come up
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with titles, and I'm meet with the team of people to think through content,
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both for things I'm doing for corporate leaders or for our church congregation.
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And oftentimes it's in those discussions that some of those keywords or phrases pop out.
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If somebody's saying something, I'm like wait, wait, wait, wait,
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say that again, it's like, that's it, so again, this
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is this can be a team sport in terms of trying to narrow it down.
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Narrow it down, you know what is the thing. So don't feel
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like you got to just sit with a you know, a blinking cursor trying
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to figure this out. You know, get some people in the room and
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say, hey, we're going to present this. Here's what I feel like.
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The bottom line is give them your long sentence or paragraph and then say,
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hey, what strikes you. What's the emotional element. If there's an
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emotional word, that makes it even better. You know, you don't have
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to do this alone. But it's so important. So good. Well.
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Also, in the conversation that you had with John, you guys talked about
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the law of results, yep, and he said that it's not the principles
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that make us better, it's the practice of the principles that make us better.
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He was talking about not being able to separate success from action. And
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one of the hallmarks of this podcast is giving practical takeaways that leaders can put
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into action the same day to improve their leadership skills. Why is that so
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important and what have you found to be the best ways to inspire people to
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take action? Well, the best way is to give them something specific to
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do that they can do, even if it's just a first step towards something
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that's broader and more all encompassing. This is one of the reasons that we
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kind of drifted away, are stepped away from emphasizing staff or organizational values and
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began to highlight and emphasize staff behaviors. I remember that because a value is
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a bit static here, we value this, we value that. Yeah,
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but what are you doing and doing is what makes the difference, right,
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I mean, thinking and believing makes no real difference. Is what we do.
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So anytime we can give somebody something specific to do, and this is
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so important, especially when we're organizationally trying to make a big change and shift
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people's habits, and as we talked about before on the podcast, organizations do
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what they're organized to do. So if we don't give people something specific to
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do that's different. Everybody just does what they've always done, and breaking habits
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is very difficult. We all know that in developing new habits is difficult.
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So the more specific the better, even if it's just a first step toward
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a new habit. And I love on the staff behaviors. It's not just
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a behavior, but there's a question behind the behavior that is action centric.
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Yes, yeah, yeah, Like one of our behaviors is make it better,
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make it better, and we tease out make it better, don't just
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make what you do better? Help us make the whole organization better. And
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the question is what are you doing to make it better? What are you
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actually doing? Or when you know, when's the last time you've suggested something?
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And so for the person who's only been here three or four months and
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they're like, well, I don't know that they really care what I think?
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Well, no, no, you fresh eyes, fresh perspective, help
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us make it better, all of it. So, even as it relates
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to our staff behaviors, these are doing things. And the whole idea of
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staff behaviors is if everybody on our staff did these six things, we will
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accomplish what we've set out to accomplish A recent example, like day before yesterda
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example, I had just finished a talk that I want to give on relationships.
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I got to the end and I felt like I was finished. In
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fact, I sent the outline to Darcy, who works with us that helps
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me create slides, and I went back and looked at it the next day
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and I realized I haven't given people anything to do. I've just given them
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something to think about information. I mean, I felt I like it,
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But where's the due part? And it was very difficult because of this specific
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principle to come up with something to do. So here's what I came up
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with. So I'll just read this to you, and with no context.
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This sounds terrible, but here's what I'm going to end the talk with.
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During your next conflict, whether it's with family or somebody at work in the
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neighborhood, during your next conflict, I want you to ask yourself this question,
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what would it look like to lose? What would it look like to
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lose a family? Yeah? Well, I was going to say, when
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you choose to lose in order to allow another person to win, you've actually
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won. When you choose to lose, you're not losing, you're choosing right
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because you're you're winning, because you're getting you choes there you go. You're
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still somewhat in control of what happens. So, but I'm also going to
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say, I'm not asking you to act on it. But here's what I'm
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asking you to do. I'm asking you to do is I want you to
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ask yourself the question what would it look like to lose? So again,
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it's action center. It's action centric even though it's a thought process. And
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again it paves the way for where we're going to go in this very interesting
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series of discussions we're going to have. So, yeah, something for that
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that's going to be great. Yeah, So give people something specific to do,
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illustrate it with what you've already done or what somebody else has already done
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that led to the result that you feel like this particular action will lead to
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either personally or organizationally, and don't feel like you're finished until you have that
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sense of application. That's so great. So, speaking of relationships, the
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last question of this episode really is around the idea of connection. And one
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of the things I noticed in your conversation with John on communication was everything was
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about connection. Caring enough about your audience. To close the gap between the
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stage and the audience, I mean, caring enough to connect with your audience
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and then taking them on a journey really is the hallmark of a great communicator.
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And I remember you talking about a way to think about starting this journey
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and your book Communicating for a Change. Can you share a little bit about
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how you think about getting people on the journey where you want to take them.
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Yeah, I love to a little background. For years, other pastors
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would say, Hey, Andy, how do you put together a sermon?
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And I'm like, I don't know. I just do it. Yeah,
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right, I mean I do it, but I don't know how I do
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it. And so I brought a group of people into the room to figure
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this out. And this is a great exercise for some of you out there
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who have skills that you know you need to pass along, but you don't
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know how to pass them along because you really don't know how you do what
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you do, but you just do it. Yeah, if you do something
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well, there is a template. You just don't know what it is,
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and you need to discover it. And one of the advantages of discovering our
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internal template is that when we get stuck. It gives us something to go
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back to. It means we're working outside the boundaries of our normal work.
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Rhythm mode or rhythm yeah is a good word. So anyway, I sat
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down the group of people and they kind of interviewed out of me. Okay,
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how do you think in terms of the communication journey? And we boiled
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it down to something memorable because that's what we all, that's what we do.
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And it came down to this, and this is within the context of
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a sermon, but I'm going to give it to you within the context of
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a business presentation or really any presentation. I came up with this. It's
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me we, God you we. It's me we, God, you we.
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And here's what this means that I start off with, me, here's
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something I really struggle with. We. This is something we all struggle with.
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God. Here's the solution. You, this is what you need to
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do. We what if we all did that? So me, here's something
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I struggle with with. Oh, we this is something we all wrestle with
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at some level. The God part. Here is a solution. You,
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here's what you need to do. We what if everybody did this? This
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is the vision cast? What could that be on. So after we published
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the book, Communicating for a Change, I started getting email from business people
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who said, love the template, use it all the time. I just
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leave out the God part and put in the company part, or put in
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the values part, or put in the vision whatever they're trying to communicate.
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You know, here's something I struggle with, here's something we as a company
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struggle with. Here's the solution. Here's what I want you to do.
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Imagine if we all did this. Imagine if all of us in the company
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did that, that's the vision cast. So it's me, we God,
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you wee. But that that was something I did intuitively that I didn't know
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I was doing. But now when I get stuck in message preparation or presentation,
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you know preparation, I just step back and say, okay me,
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yeah, what am I missing? Something's out of order? I've left something
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out. And then sometimes Darcy, who have mentioned earlier, who you know,
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helps me with slides and stuff, she'll point this out. She'll say,
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here's what's missing, or hey, you know, you don't have one
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point or you don't have something. You know, she's so accustomed to this
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template. So again, this isn't necessarily a solo thing. There's ways to
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get people involved. And the great thing about the the me we part of
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it, it's we talk about this all the time. It creates warm water
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where people go, oh, he struggles too, Oh, he struggles with
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what I struggle with and allows people to lean in even if they aren't ready
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for what's going to come after that. Right, It creates that that moment
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connection, yeah, connection, Like John and I talked about it, right,
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Wie, What is going to convince the audience you're worth listening to that
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you have something to offer that is what makes you relatable? And the warm
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water phrase for our audience is a phrase that Susie interjected into my preparation because
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you know, I would get up and deliver something and she would say,
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you need a little more warm water. I'm like, what are you talking
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about. She's like, you just went in super hot or super cold,
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blast him with cold water, cold water and too hot and too cold,
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and everybody's leaving, right, So I did. I began thinking in terms
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of how do I present the tension, present the question, present the mystery
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that needs to be solved in such a way that everybody's nodding as opposed to
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going home. My gosh, what just happened. And you know, John
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talked about that last week. How early on in his career he was so
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and I've heard some of his early presentations because I've listened to him for so
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long. So he was so dogmatic and so intense that even though he was
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right, you felt like you were pushing back in your seat. And he
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was intuitive enough and self aware enough to recognize that and started sitting down on
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a stool and he is he sits down, he's just you feel like he's
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pulled up to the table to have a chat. Sit at the fireplace with
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him. Yeah. So good. Well, any that is all the time
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we have today for this inaugural episode of Reverb. Thanks so much for digging
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in deeper on the topic of communication, and to all of our listeners,
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we want to thank you for joining us. Sure to visit Andy Stanley dot
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com slash podcast, where you can find more resources to help you go further faster.