Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 398: Inside the World of Cooke Optics with Les Zellan

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BPS 398: Inside the World of Cooke Optics with Les Zellan · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three ninety eight.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not a businessman, I'm a business man, Jay.
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  Speaker 2: of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
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  Speaker 2: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 1: Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage.
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  Speaker 3: Now today on the.
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  Speaker 1: Show, we have Les zelln who is the CEO of
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Cook Lenses. Now, in this episode, we are going to
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  Speaker 1: go deep into lenses. That's right, we are going to
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  Speaker 1: go deep into the history of cook, How we got,
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  Speaker 1: how we Cook got gets its look, advice, tips on
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  Speaker 1: how to make your images look better, and all sorts
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  Speaker 1: of just we're gonna.
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  Speaker 3: Geek out a bit. I'm sorry, we're going to geek
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  Speaker 3: out a bit.
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  Speaker 1: So if you love lenses, I want to know more
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  Speaker 1: about creating a better image for your film. This is
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  Speaker 1: probably a good good interview to listen to. Less is
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  Speaker 1: awesome and I am a fan of cook Lenses. They
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  Speaker 1: are legendary because of the look that they are able
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  Speaker 1: to create. So, without any further ado, please enjoy my
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  Speaker 1: conversation with less Zellen. I'd like to welcome to the show.
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  Speaker 1: Chairman of Cook Optics, less Zellen, How.
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  Speaker 3: You doing man?
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  Speaker 4: Good? How are you Alex?
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  Speaker 1: I think very good. Thank you so much for taking
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  Speaker 1: the time out. I know you're a very busy man
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  Speaker 1: to talk to the tribe today about all things cook
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  Speaker 1: and glass and images and all sorts of cool stuff.
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  Speaker 5: Well, that's one of my favorite topics. So yeah, I'm happy.
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  Speaker 4: To be here.
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  Speaker 1: So first question, how did you get into this film
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  Speaker 1: business in the first place?
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  Speaker 5: Well, there is a good question. Back in I'm actually
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  Speaker 5: a lighting designer for the theater, and then back in
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  Speaker 5: nineteen and between nineteen seventy six and seventy nine, I
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  Speaker 5: was working for a company called Color Tram and doing
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  Speaker 5: insight engineering, laying out theaters and laying out studios. And
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  Speaker 5: then in seventy nine I went to work for company
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  Speaker 5: called Furca, which was film equipment rental company that was
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  Speaker 5: obviously a rental company in New York as their sales manager.
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  Speaker 5: And almost a day one I was approached by somebody
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  Speaker 5: saying can can I buy an at on camera from you?
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: And I said, well, sure, Well I didn't know the
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  Speaker 5: fix was in and that that at the time, Aton
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  Speaker 5: was really just struggling to get a foothold in the
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  Speaker 5: United States, and you know a area was the eight
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  Speaker 5: hundred pound Gorilla and the fix was in and you know,
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  Speaker 5: you could be a deal you were you could, you
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  Speaker 5: could be a dealer for Atton. But it got to
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  Speaker 5: help you if you sell any of them, you know.
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  Speaker 5: So I lasted a Furco until about September. And to
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  Speaker 5: this day, the guy that ran Furco at the time
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  Speaker 5: can't remember if I quit or he fired me. Our
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  Speaker 5: memories are pretty fuzzy because they sold a lot of
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  Speaker 5: Atton cameras and they really pissed them off. And then
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  Speaker 5: I start my own company in the fall of seventy
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  Speaker 5: nine to sell that to On cameras.
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  Speaker 4: Which led me, of course to lenses. Is you need
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  Speaker 4: a lens on a camera.
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  Speaker 5: At the time, the really hot lenses were beyondre Do
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  Speaker 5: nine to five efty seven and the twelve to one twenty.
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  Speaker 5: And then Cook approached me in nineteen eighty one. I
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  Speaker 5: think is the Aton at the time was the only
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  Speaker 5: super sixteen camera, and Cook had, believe it or not,
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  Speaker 5: the only super sixteen lens.
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  Speaker 4: Really well, they made two supercis. They made two sixteen
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  Speaker 4: millimeter lenses.
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  Speaker 5: One was called the CVK City very Kennibal and there
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  Speaker 5: were two versions of it, a nine to fifty for
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  Speaker 5: regular sixteen and at ten point four to fifty two
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  Speaker 5: for supers. So they approached me because they couldn't give
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  Speaker 5: this lens away anywhere, and I was selling an APT
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  Speaker 5: Super sixteen camera, and lo and behold, it went from
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  Speaker 5: a product they couldn't give away to a product they
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  Speaker 5: couldn't make fast enough. Thomas Siegel, I think, was the
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  Speaker 5: first guy that I convinced to take it, and he
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  Speaker 5: took I think Thomas and Is up in his pre
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  Speaker 5: asc days, was the documentary guy in New York and
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  Speaker 5: he had a mad Tom camera and he took a
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  Speaker 5: Cook wensday think down to when he was sung like
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  Speaker 5: Nick Rock when the sail Nistas and all that, and
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  Speaker 5: he came back in the footage that he had was
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  Speaker 5: just stunning everything else away. So the result of that
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  Speaker 5: is that then we had a line of people at
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  Speaker 5: the door looking to buy this lens. And that was
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  Speaker 5: my beginning of a relationship with Cook that has endured
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  Speaker 5: were you know, almost forty years. And I wanted to
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  Speaker 5: buy the company, you know, straight away, and they didn't
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  Speaker 5: want to sell it to me obviously. And then twenty
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  Speaker 5: years later in nineteen ninety eight, when Cook really had
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  Speaker 5: fallen on hard times.
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  Speaker 4: It was just about well, it was virtually bankrupt and
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  Speaker 4: pretty much out of business.
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  Speaker 5: I was able to buy it then. And you know,
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  Speaker 5: as they say, the rest is history. We've turned the
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  Speaker 5: company around.
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  Speaker 4: I really do.
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  Speaker 5: I don't think it's boasting to say that Cook is
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  Speaker 5: now once again an industry leader in developing optics for cameras,
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  Speaker 5: in the developing yeah lenses through the industry, and it's
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  Speaker 5: sortainly gotten crazy with you know, a new format every week.
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  Speaker 3: Very much so. But I'll have to ask you the
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  Speaker 3: question though.
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  Speaker 1: So you obviously you've been in love with this company
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  Speaker 1: since eighty one, basically right before then when you first
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  Speaker 1: went introduced to them, and you basically like you just
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: held on waiting for this, this this young lady to say, fine,
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  Speaker 1: I'll marry you.
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  Speaker 3: Fine, it took forever.
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  Speaker 4: What did you dook?
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  Speaker 3: But what did yeah?
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  Speaker 1: What did you see in a barely barely you know, functioning,
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  Speaker 1: if not completely bankrupt company that nobody else saw?
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  Speaker 5: That's a really great question. And you know, you know,
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  Speaker 5: like there's an expression in real estate that buyers are liars,
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  Speaker 5: and what that means is they say, I want this
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  Speaker 5: kind of house that, I want that kind of neighborhood,
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  Speaker 5: I want this, that and the other thing, and then
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  Speaker 5: they walk into a house that has none of those
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  Speaker 5: things and they fall in love and they say this
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  Speaker 5: is what this is it. And that's almost what it
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  Speaker 5: was with me and Cook. The first time I went
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  Speaker 5: to Cook, actually the second trip, I want to Cook
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  Speaker 5: and was have my wife with me, and I said
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  Speaker 5: to I said to Barber, I said, you know, I
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  Speaker 5: want to buy this company, and I want to And
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  Speaker 5: that was based on I don't know anything about manufacturing.
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  Speaker 5: I knew nothing about glass. I mean that was it
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  Speaker 5: was just a emotional, instant, emotional response to see how
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  Speaker 5: this company was set up at the time. It was
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  Speaker 5: part of the Rank organization, part of Rank Taylor Hobson,
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  Speaker 5: which was a big at the time, a very big
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  Speaker 5: company and with lots of interest, of which Cook was insignificant.
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  Speaker 5: And it was obvious from just walking through the end
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  Speaker 5: of the factory that Cook was in and I mean
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  Speaker 5: we were just had a little shoe box inside of
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  Speaker 5: a big factory, but it didn't belong there. It was
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  Speaker 5: obviously a cottage industry stuck inside this big company and didn't.
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  Speaker 4: Get the attention to need it. Why I hadn't a.
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  Speaker 5: Fity for it. It's one of those great what ifs.
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  Speaker 5: You know, I just don't know, but.
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  Speaker 3: You saw something.
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  Speaker 1: But on a business standpoint, you must have looked at
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  Speaker 1: it and said, I think I can turn this around.
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  Speaker 1: I think I can make because I mean, I love,
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  Speaker 1: love is love, but business way too much credit.
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  Speaker 3: So literally it was just lovely. I just want to
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  Speaker 3: buy this.
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  Speaker 5: I have to tell you, I'm not a numbers guy.
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  Speaker 5: I just had a gut feeling that I could do it.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, fair enough, and.
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  Speaker 4: And you know, it.
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  Speaker 5: Took twenty years to get control. And but once we've
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  Speaker 5: got control, we've never looked back. And as they said,
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  Speaker 5: we've we've gone on from barely being barely alive to
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  Speaker 5: now I believe we make more lens series and lenses
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  Speaker 5: for the industry than anybody.
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  Speaker 3: Else now in this company.
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  Speaker 1: If you could tell a little bit about the history
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  Speaker 1: of this company, this company's been around for ever.
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  Speaker 5: The whole story of cook would make a great movie.
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  Speaker 5: And if you've got anybody out listening that wants to
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  Speaker 5: write a script, so the company. The founder of the
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  Speaker 5: company was a guy named William Taylor in eighteen eighty six.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
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  Speaker 3: And now back to the show.
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  Speaker 4: And the company was called Tailer Hobson.
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  Speaker 5: And he and his brother Smith, he's made lenses and
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: then and just.
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  Speaker 4: To give you an idea of how it involved and
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  Speaker 4: how small the industry was back then.
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  Speaker 5: Kodak started in eighteen eighty nine. And before George Easton
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  Speaker 5: started Kodak, he took the boat over in England and
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: he spent some time with William Taylor to find out
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: about lens making. So I mean this, it's all in
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: the whole history of the.
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  Speaker 4: Movie business is interwoven well between all these companies. But
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  Speaker 4: it's a fascinating story.
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  Speaker 5: Anyway, Cook the Cook brand, it came out in eighteen
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  Speaker 5: ninety two, ninety three. There was a guy that worked
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: for a company up in York. My company is based
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: in Leicester by the way Lester, And there was a
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: guy in New York I named Denis him and he's
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: no relation to my tailors.
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  Speaker 4: And.
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  Speaker 5: He worked for a company called Tea Cooking Sons and
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: they made telescopes. But Denis Tailor came up with this
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  Speaker 5: arrangement of glass that allowed you to get detail all
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: the way to the edge of a photograph without shooting
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: through a tunnel. With shooting through a wide aperture she
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: is in the eighteen eighties eighteen nineties, to get detailed
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: to the edge, you really had to shoot at F
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: sixty four, you know, even basically you had to shoot
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  Speaker 5: through a pinhole camera. So this was revolutionary, and in
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  Speaker 5: fact most optical historians consider this invention to be one
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  Speaker 5: of the most important in modern lensmaking and photography. But
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: fortunately for me, it has no real.
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  Speaker 4: Application in telescopes.
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  Speaker 5: So the guys at Tea Cooking Sons went to their
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: friends down on Lester and said, you want to use
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: this patented invention we have and of course not being stilled,
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: but they said, you bet, and the deal was made.
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  Speaker 5: Other than the money that changed hands, the deal was
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  Speaker 5: made that anyone is using this invention would be called
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  Speaker 5: a Cook lens. And hence, from the early eighteen nineties
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  Speaker 5: to now, Cook has been in one way or another,
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: been in continuous production. We made all the Charlie Chaplin movies,
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: the Mary Pickford movies, the Famous Players Manski movies. We
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: made wings, the first Academy award winning film in fact,
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: with the speed Pan Crows that came out. Because the
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: sound film in the early twenties, you'd be hard pressed
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: from the early twenties to probably the mid fifties or
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  Speaker 5: sixties to find a film that we were not on.
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  Speaker 5: It was really, it was just in a magical time.
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  Speaker 5: And then after World War Two, the Rank organization took
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  Speaker 5: over Taylor Hobson, of which Cook was a division. We
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: actually did very well under them for a while. Because
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: you seeing those old movies with the Gong Man at
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: the beginning and on he gets there.
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  Speaker 4: Well.
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  Speaker 5: Rank Taylor Hobson, Jay after Rank was a baker, and
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: when he loved the movies, he built the whole. He
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: built Pine, when he built Rank laboratories, he built uh.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Shepard And.
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  Speaker 5: I don't know if you bought Taylor Hobson because of
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  Speaker 5: the lenses or not, but they in any case, uh
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  Speaker 5: they He loved the film industry well. As the time
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  Speaker 5: was on, Rank, mister Rank dies and the whole focus
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  Speaker 5: of the Rank organization turns around and instead of manufacturing,
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: they decided they want to be in leisure businesses. So
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: not only was it Cook suffered, but things like Ranks,
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  Speaker 5: Intel Century strand all their manufacturing.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: Companies, many of which you've never heard of, because there
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: in the motion picture business fell on hard times.
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  Speaker 5: And this was probably starting in about the late eighties.
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  Speaker 5: So the product, you know, our product got at the
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: time we had stopped making prime ones is the Steed
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: Pancers in nineteen sixty five, and then we started making zooms.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: And our zooms were you know, not only the.
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: Two cvks that I talked about earlier, but I'm sure
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: most of your if if you guys are old enough,
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: there was a twenty five to two fifty and the
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: twenty to one hundred zooms that really bought I know
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: ingree was out there, but we really bought zooms to
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: the motion picture industry. But as they lost interest in manufacturing,
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: they didn't make investments, so ingrew. For instance, in Zoom,
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: they came out with some products that weren't that good,
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: but then they came out with you know, the the
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: HR series and then the Optimal series, and they just
• 14:57
  Speaker 5: sort of left us behind.
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  Speaker 4: And Cook was sort of withering on the vine for years.
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  Speaker 5: And then I said, in nineteen ninety eight, I was
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: finally able to.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: For the fourth trial, I was able to buy the company.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: It's fascinating that you were literally able to you know,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I'm sure pennies on the dollar.
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: I wish, I wish that were true. I wish that
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: were true. I overpaid, but you know, at the end,
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: it was good to me. Yeah, I mean, it's been
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: a great relationship. It's allowed me to go all over
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: the world, allowed me to talk to you about Cook.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't regret a penny that I put into it.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: But it was not pennies on the.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, But you were still able to You were still
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: able to acquire a legacy company without question, because I've
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: known about Cook from the days of my film school days.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, Cook was Cook, and I think.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: It was even even I went to I went to
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: film school in a ninety six, so it's a couple
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: of years before you purchased again. So even then there
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: was still you know, from the old by old cinematography teachers.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: We were talking about like the old Cooks and and.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: All that stuff.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask you about the infamous and
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: yet very famous Cook look, the Cook look, which is
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: not trademarks, of course, so.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: What is to be fair?
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: You know, we did not invent that slogan. The industry
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: invented that slogan and then we sort of grabbed it.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, fair enough. So what is the cook look?
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: Well, that's a great question. On our website, on the
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: cook website, we do have vast cinematographers to write it down,
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: and they all say more or less the same thing,
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: but in different words.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: It's a warm look.
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: It's a very what I think Ed Lockman used the
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: word round look because it's it has a really nice
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: gentle fall off of focus. Uh so it gives you
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: a very dimensional look. And frankly, the warmness of the
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: lens is you makes people look at I mean, and
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: who generally who doesn't want.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: To look good and they're getting photographed.
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  Speaker 5: And in fact, in the old days, like in the
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: in the old studio days, there were stars that put
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: in their contract that they had to be photographed with
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: cook wins.
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  Speaker 3: Because they need that much.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, they know what they know what makes them
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  Speaker 4: look good. And the cookbook.
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: Continues today. I mean that ever since the Speed pan
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: Crows came out in the twenties, the cookbook has been consistent.
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: So you know, you can if you look at an
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: old speed pantcrow relative to a New S seven or
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: an S four or whatever. The coloration and the fall
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: off of it's all going to be very, very similar.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because I remember watching a YouTube video of
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: like a tour of your of your facility or the
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: making of a lens, which I mean for for lens geeks,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and oh my god, it's just like it was like
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: it was like porn. I mean, it was beautiful. It
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: was such a beautiful experience. Why are you just sitting
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: there going because it takes so much.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: People, you know, I do a lecture.
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: Which I've done all over the world basically using you know,
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: power points how you build lenses, and interwoven with that
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: is cook history and movie history.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: But it's I do it all over the world.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: I just came back from doing I think five lectures
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: all over China a few weeks ago, and people find
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: it fascinating and I love doing it because it's it's
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: it's an awakening to show people here's the tool that
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: is basically there, it's their I own the world is
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: the lens, and they have no idea for the most
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: part other than it's got glass in the front and
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: glass in the back and some metal that goes into
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: making a lens, and so I love doing it. As
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: usually people are, well, usually the response is great.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: Now the one thing, and please correct me if I'm wrong.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: But each lens manufacturer has their basic kind of like
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Coca cola recipe for.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: The coding it does for the coating.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for the coating. So I mean there is a
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: specific kind of formula that you guys have.
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: But let's go back one step, because whereas the cook
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: philosophy in lens design to get the coatings for the ones,
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: but our philosophy has been the same from the Steed
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: pan crows to today. Other manufacturers, if you look at
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: their lenses, it will be all over the map. Now
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: most of them, and I can't take most of them
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: have come.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: Around to doing what we do. Now they come up
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: with the philosophy.
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: And whatever that is, and it's not right or wrong,
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: it's just their philosophy, and then all their lenses from
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: that point forward have as similar.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Look, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: But if you look back at like the old zeisstagons
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: or the super speeds, the thirty.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: Five was one collar the.
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: You know, they were all different depending on who designed
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: them is they didn't have a corporate philosophy of what
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: they're what they were amy, so it came.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: Down to the designer where Cook.
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: One of our big advantages, as we've been consistent, and
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: you know, one of the reasons I think the Panavision
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: did the.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: Primo lenses back in the late eighties was up until
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: then their glass was.
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: Cooked and entre now and ice and and Tolkeina and
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: you know, you fill in the blank. They bought lenses,
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: they panavized them, and they put it up.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: But that they that puts them all over the map.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: And one of the.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: Things that they did when I came out with the
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: primas and say we are now color matched, well, you
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: know Cook's been color matched for already. Then we were
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: color matched for almost seventy years. But now I would
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: agree with you that most manufacturers have a certain look
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: to there in the design. And to your direct question,
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: do we all sort of guard our coating recipe? The
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: answer is absolutely yes. But I will tell you the
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: coating recipe that everybody thinks in parts, the magic to
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: the lens is a few percent of the magic the
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: real Cook look or the Brand X look doesn't come
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: so much from the coatings. It comes mainly from the
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: choices of glasses that you used to build your lens with.
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: And each glass not only has a different index of refraction,
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: but also has a different color transmission characteristics. So by
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: my choosing those classes carefully, you give it the personnel.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: The coatings add just a scoch but not a lot.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Right, And it's all And it's also about the way,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the way the sand how you get this, like, I mean,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: all the all the raw materials to build everything, and
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: then the process of building it.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: It's right, it's artistic, yeah, but to be fair, we
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: all use the same raw materials now in the old days,
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: you know, we used to smelt glass right now, but
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: right now, the reality.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: Is there are two or three or four optical glass
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: manufacturers in the world and we all use their material.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: So whether it's this ice lens or cook lens or
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: an ongre new lens, the material comes from the same
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: half a dozen manufacturers around the world.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So it's more about the processing and actually the.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: Ship and the choices.
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: I mean, if you look at a glass map, it
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: has maybe one hundred different types of glass on it
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: that each have different characteristics. So our designers, knowing that
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: they want to get the cookbook coming in, you know,
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: at the end, they picked the lens the glass types
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: that will not only obviously focus the lens where we
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: need it, but also the right color transmission and the
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: right contrast and everything else that we're looking for that
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: goes into the cook lens so that we get the
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: cook look out the back.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Which is the one thing that's funny that I'm listening
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: to and something that I hope everyone listening understands, is
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: that you as a company have decided that this is
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the kind of product that we're going to put out.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: So every time you buy a cook lens, you expect
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: a certain level of quality, a certain look, and you're
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: not playing around with it. You're not like, oh well,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: let's let's do a little darker look here, let's make
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: a little sharper edge to here. Like, no, we're cook
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: and this is what people want from us, and we're
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: going to deliver it.
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: And the reason we do that is is it's obviously
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: what people want. I mean, they wouldn't have come back
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: to us and said this is the cookbook and we
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: want it. I'm such a thick star I can dictate
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: what lenses I want to be photographed with. If they
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: didn't like the look, I mean, we would get out
• 24:01
  Speaker 5: of business years ago.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Now, the lens that kind of put you guys back
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: on the map was yes, fours right absolutely, So what
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: was it like with that, because when you guys released,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I took you a few years to release it after
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: you took over the company.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: But when we actually released, to be fair that yeah,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: the previous management before I came along started the let
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: me be backtrack just a bit. So the Primo has come.
• 24:29
  Speaker 5: Out and the late eighties, the late eighties, early nineties,
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: the non Panavision world goes into a.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: Panic, literal panic.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: Is up until then, the non Panavision world thought Panavision
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: was on the ropes, that they were going to be
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: dead and you know, or or sold off for parts.
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: In a few years. Primos absolutely changed that whole calculation,
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: and all the customers that were floating away from Panavision
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: is realized that why should I run a Panavision twenty
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: five to two fifteen when I can just get the
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: real thing, a cook thing from Autawordenny or whoever at
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: a better price. So the premium has come out that
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: whole flow away from Panavision obviously.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: Starts to flow back. They have the hot new product.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: So the non Tanavision world goes to everybody. Everybody. They
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: went to cook.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: They were a decisi. They get airy, They go to Taquina,
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: they go to Angela, but nikon Canon you can you
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: can fill in any glassnu lens manufacturer in the world.
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: They went to all of them. And for whatever reason,
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: this is about ninety two ninety three, for whatever reason,
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: Cook is the only woe that said yes, and so
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: we started to cook. The previous management started the project. Yeah,
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: he did it as a Skunkwarks product. You didn't have
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: permission to do it from the marine courts. They would
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: have never given him the money to do this.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: But he did it because he told me.
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: I met him right after he decided to do it,
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: and he said, well, I'm going to do this, and
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: I can do it in a year, so they'll never
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: find it. By the time they find out about it,
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: I'll be a hero, right, Yes, I wasn't. It's better
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: to ask forgiveness than yes. Yes, yes, of course if
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: if you're asking for forgiveness in your order book just
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: went from almost nothing to this, for goodness is pretty
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: easy to get well. Even though I didn't know anything
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: about manufacturing and optical design at the time, I know
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: he was dreaming. This was a major project, and.
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: It dragged on and on and on and on and on.
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: And in fact, when I took over the company in
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: ninety eight, it was close to being done, but it
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: wasn't finished. I won't go into all the gory details
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: of what happened on how he hid the money from US,
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: spending from the book, but it was it was, it wasn't.
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: It was not a pleasant then, but that's either here
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: to there. So when I got there, the several of
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: the es wars were prototype, so we very quickly turned
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: that into production and we got out four lenses. I
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: think I can't remember the first one. It's probably the
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: eighteen twenty five fifty, I don't I don't remember the
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: first one. But this is a magical time in the
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: industry room, and this is when you say you're not
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: going to what usure at the right place at the
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: right time. So all the people that had tasked and
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: the only ones that I care about passing Resise and
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: Airy and Entrere, So they passed on this so, and
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: I mean I understand they had in the prime world,
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: there were the statistic gods of the super speeds, which
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: were even then, we're thirty year old designs.
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: Areas making it.
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: I mean, Arias Ice were making a ton of money
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: on those, right, they're thirty years old designs for tooling.
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: Everything's been paid off years ago, and we're still selling them.
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: And so, yeah, the primos are a bit of a problem,
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: but our stuff is still selling. Nobody's got anything to compete. Well,
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: we come out with the S fours. They were the
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: first modern non panavision lens, and the world.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: Lines up at my door.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: So I went from no business to three or four
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: years worth of business almost overnight. And then the then
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: Seiss and Airy went into a bit of a panic
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: and they put up you know, you know the story
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: about putting an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: number type of regers in our own sooner or later
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: outcomes in all the great works. They did pretty much
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: the same thing with lens designers, and they put them
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: in a room and they don't come out until what
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: became the They did not the master crimes.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: The oh y, the z was it yeah, I know
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: what you're talking about.
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: Ones for the It'll come to me anyway. But that
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: gave us, really, when you think about that, that took
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: them about three years to do. That gave us a
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: window from ninety eight to two thousand and one that we.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: Were all alone. We had the only new primes.
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: In the industry, and they were just incredibly in the demand.
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: As I said, went off the show, off the off
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: the shop, off the charts. Sorry, and so right place,
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: right time, knock on wood. YEAHS fours are still one
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: of our best selling products. And this year or they're twenty.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: One years old, this year, Wow, they're still selling. I
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: think S wors are more or less the standard of
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: the industry.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show. Now, can we discuss
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: a little bit about vintage glass, because there is something
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: that we talked about about vintage cook lenses and what
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: happens to because a lot of people don't understand. They're like, oh,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I need a brand new lens. I'm like, well, not
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: necessarily you might.
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: Oh you know what we actually we're actually dealing with that,
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: So tell me. Yeah, as you know, a lot of
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: people love shooting the old speed pantcross.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, again, to.
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: Step back a little bit, let's thank digital for being
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: a boring and.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Sterrible for it.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: Right, So when digital comes in, I mean, pre digital,
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: people were throwing away or are getting pant crows. We're
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: never going to use this again. Let's get rid of it,
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: sell it for fifty bucks.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: I know, I remember I heard stories. It hurts. It hurts.
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: So digital comes in, I mean, and I think Jim
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: Jernard every morning. Evolution he started is simply amazing. I'm
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: not crazy about digital from a personal My personal past
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: does tend back towards film, but I loved it. As
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: a manufacturer. Digital has been an amazing, amazing for me.
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: It's taken a small market and made it astronomically big,
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: and it's caused people to think, wow, it's really a
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: little boring and sterile. How can I put character, the
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: character and personality I used to get in film? How
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: do I reinject that into digital? And of course one
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: of the easy ways is to use old glass.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: The problem with old glass is that it's all glass.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: So like with with.
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: Our old steet pancrows, keeping on the last stepancre we
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: made was in nineteen sixty five, So if you found
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: one today, it's almost fifty to fifty four years old
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: right at the at the at best, and it was
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: probably one made in the late forties, early fifties, so
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: it's a lot older. You know, we're talking seventy year
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: old glass. Sixty seventy year old glass.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: Anyway, so.
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: That glass still makes beautiful movies, but it is pain
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: in the ass. Is every lens is a different color.
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: The well discolored over time. I know when they were
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: shooting the first two seasons of the Crown, the d T,
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: the shot on speed Pan Crows, thed T had a
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: separate lookup table for each lens.
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so so we loooked at.
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: That and we said, well, you know, speed pan craw Okay,
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: I'm going to understand.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: I get it. I know why people want to use
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: the glass, and it.
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: Does have a If you remember the old speed pancrows,
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: they were very small.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: Lenses, right, and the swars are significantly bigger.
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: Well, the s wars are significantly bigger, so we could
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: give you a better field performance than the pant crows.
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: The pant row.
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: The main difference between a pant row and an s
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: flour is that the fall off of focus and an
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: S four starts of what we call the picture height area.
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: You can imagine a frame and you put a vertical
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: line through the frame at the axis and make a circle.
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: Of that that area.
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: That round circle is where we try to keep it
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: pretty clean, and then we let the fall off come in.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: And that's well, I've told you too much now, because
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: that's part of the book.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: I may have to kill you. Sorry, So I didn't
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: mean that.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Guys, I know he's joking. He's joking.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: I can't say. You can't say anything anyway.
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: So the difference with the difference the reason the S
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: war has got bigger. We're not only to solve mechanical
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: problems that people wanted, better scaling and better footage scales
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: and all those other things, but it was also to
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: increase the glass.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: Diameter and get more get better performance in the field grows.
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: So the basic difference is a pant row, the focus
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: falls off as soon as you come off the axis.
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: So the fall of starts from really you move two
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: fixedels over and you're already losing focus. It's very gradual
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: and very flattering. But that's the main difference between a
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: speed pant grow and any of the modern cook lenses.
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: Except we noticed this, and there are only a finite
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: number of old speed pant crows or hold anything out there.
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: They're all discolored. They're all in probably desperate need of
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: mechanical and optical parts that don't exist anymore now. And
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: there are some companies that are trying to fix that,
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: but we're not one of them. So we took a
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: look at the old speed pancrews designs and said, let's
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: just remake these. I mean we can remake them. We
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: can do two things. You can remake them in a
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: new housing with new glass, but keep true to the
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: old look and feel of the fall off. And we
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: can increase the coverage. Is like the eighteen and the
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: twenty five. I think the thirty two didn't really cover
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: Super thirty five. They covered the original silent thirty five.
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: So we fixed all those issues. We added the metadata
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: our eye system, which is evolving into an industry standard,
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: and we put them out as the Pancro Classics, and
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: they are doing.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: Phenomenally well, and we know we've really got it right.
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: We've had some very big name dps that almost shot
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: exclusively on pant Rows or the old Speed pant Crows,
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: and the last two features that this one particular guy
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: did when he tested them against his lens, his old
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: Speed pant Crows and the new classics.
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: He ended up using the classics. I mean, it takes
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: a headache out of it.
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: You get the look, you get the feel, but you
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: don't need a different lookup table.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: For every lens.
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: You can get parts you can get at their much
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: easier for an assistant to use. You know, they're they're
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: more S fours in mechanical but Panco Classic pant Row,
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: super Steed pant Row in look.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: That's amazing.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: So so you actually get you guys actually took the
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: old concepts of the vintage and what made it so
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: beautiful and then just redid them.
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: And redid them. And what I like to tell people
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: is the Pancrow Classics probably look like the Speed pant
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: Row did when they took it out of.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: The box sixty years ago, when it.
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: Was a clean glass and operational, you know so, and
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: they've been extremely popular. And again everything I make, including
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: S fours, we've never had for twenty twenty years, we've
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: never had stock. We've always we build the order and
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: we're on backwater in varying degrees on everything we make.
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: And we've extended the built, we built a new factory,
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: we've built the second factory. We've gone from thirty six
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: to one hundred and thirty some people, and we still
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: can't make stuff.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: Ask A THEOM.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Wow, that's well, that's a good problem to have. That's
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: a good problem to have. That's a good problem.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Now what is cook doing to adapt to this new
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: generation of mega resolution cameras out there? The eight K,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: ten K, twenty five K, fifty K Eventually I'm sure
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: I know you.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: Say that exactly the way I do. I get up
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: to a gazillion.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, like, at what point do we just our
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: eyes just can't comprehend, Kate.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: We could talk about k's in a minute.
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: But we've already I think we've pretty much passed that
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: at H once we go past HD. Depending on the
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: size of the screen. Sure, if you're sitting in your
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: living room watching a movie and you know you got
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: a I don't know, six a sixty five inch set
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: unless you're sitting like a foot away, you don't get
• 37:49
  Speaker 5: the benefit of that, UHD. I mean, so all these resolutions.
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: Would I like to tell people, now, can your old
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: steed Pancrose handled all these new resolutions? Well, people are
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: making movies with them every day, and I like what
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: they see.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: So a lot of this is just marketing hype, of course.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: But are we dealing with it? Sure? I mean we
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: every time there's a new format, it causes us to say, oh, ship,
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: there's a new format. On the other hand, we put
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: the big smile on my face is that ship people
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: are gonna have to buy new more lenses. Isn't this
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: frame so right? When? When?
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: The industry when? And you know, red is I think
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: Red is the big culprit here as far as changing formats.
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: But then then I think the whole manufacture, the whole
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: camera manufacturing industry is the culprit here. The thing that
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: annoys me about full frame isn't that I.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: Don't love it. I love making lenses work.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: Our S seven's and our new full frame anamorphics are
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: extremely popular, and you know, we'll talk about that in
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: a minute. But full frame came about in my mind.
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: It was nothing anybody was asking for. Nobody was saying
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: gas Super thirty five just isn't good enough. We really
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: need we really need, we really need center format so
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: I can I can watch I can watch a movie
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: on my phone.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: This makes no sense to me as just me personal me,
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: as a lens manufacturer, I say, oh boy, a new
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: set of lenses. So with red and now the rest
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: of the industry pushing, the rest of the manufacturers pushing
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: full frame. Of course, we developed the seven eye lenses
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: and actually had them on the market. I think before
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: the cameras. I think that's never happened before. People think
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: that the camera manufacturers and the lensed guys are talking
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: to each other all the time, and but for the
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: old days when arian s ice were together in the works,
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: they're not anymore.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: That's not true.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a while from our sponsor
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: We find out about it, just like everybody else does,
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: listen to rumors in the industry and trying to get
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: and make the right guess.
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: Well, we made the right guess on the full frame.
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: We came out with the S seven I think two
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: three years ago now, just just as the cameras were
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: starting to come out. They've been extremely successful. Is basically
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: they're taking the s wore and scaling it up. It's
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: not just scaling up an s word, it's a whole
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: brand new design, but a look and feel of it
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: when we were done looks like a cook let, a
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: modern Cooklin. So we did that well. And then last
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: year we announced the full frame Anamorphics, which we will
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: start delivering and about well, we'll have last year at
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: any at IBC.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: We announced on the IBC last year we said we'll
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: have them by NAB and we will have the first
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: four lenses at ANAB this year and start delivering thereafter.
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: And there we've taken a bit of a flyer. Well
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: I shouldn't say that. We've got tons of orders for them,
• 41:15
  Speaker 5: so I know we nailed it. But one of the
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: things we did is we instead of doing a two
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: X squeeze like we do in traditional thirty five, we
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: did a one point eight squeeze and there was a
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: lot of thought and care that went into that equation,
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: and it looks like we really nailed it.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: And the one point eight book.
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: Is almost indistinguishable from two from except the most trained device.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: And it's great. It looks good. The reason we went
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: to if we had done two.
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: And you wanted to do a two point four traditional
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: two point four release, you'd lose about twenty five percent
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: of the pixels in full frame. If you go if
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: you want a full use the full three by two
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: full frame, it's a.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: One point six squeens. Well, the problem with the one.
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: Point six squeeze is it's not really anamorphic looking. It's
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: sort of maybe yeah, it could be different, maybe maybe not.
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: It's really uninteresting and in my mind, ecuse me, the
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: only reason to shoot anamorphic is that you wanted to
• 42:26
  Speaker 5: look anamorphic. And I know there's some companies making very
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: clean animals that looks errical and I just have to
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: scratch my head when I see these and think, what
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: the hell were they thinking? You know, why would I
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: want to go to all the trouble of shooting anamorphic
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: right when I can just you know, I can just
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: you know, crop my frame and get a widescreen and
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: nobody's calling out for resolution. There's plenty of resolution. So anyway,
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: so we so one point if you do a two squeeze,
• 43:01
  Speaker 5: you lose too many pixels. If you want to go
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: the whole frame, it's one point six and that's not interesting.
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: One point eight yeah, right in the middle. You lose
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: about ten percent of the pixels, but it looks like two.
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: I've shown it to dp's they can't most of them
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: can't tell whether it's the two or the one point eight.
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: And as an added benefit, if you were doing a
• 43:23
  Speaker 5: two X squeeze and you wanted to go to full frame,
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: you'd be at about a three point one ratio, which
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: is just not a very pleasing ratio.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: It's five.
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: But if you go from a one point eight squeeze
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: and use the whole frame, you're in a two point
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: seven Well, two point seven is just under two point
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: seven six, which is ultrapanava sure, and that's a really
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: you know, that's a pleasing range and ultrapana vision. That
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: was shot with the one point two five squeeze. So
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: it's a little a little different. But the bottom line
• 43:58
  Speaker 5: here is when I look at when I look at
• 44:01
  Speaker 5: test film, and if you want to see some test shots,
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: you can go up to the Cook Vimeo site and
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: there's a bunch of tests up there. I think this
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: is in the I can't remember. You go to the
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: Vimeo site, it's the first test on the right and
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: it has all our lens issuing the same thing over
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: and over again, but showing you, you.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: Know, and it's pretty impressive.
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: It's everybody that sees it, and I think it's going
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: to happen. Looking at the we've done most of our
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: testing obviously on the Sony Venice, a great, great camera
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: by the way, I'm looking forward to seeing the new
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: LF Mini that the Venice is a great camera and
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: you look at it with the two point four lines
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: and then you look at two point seven you think,
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: why wouldn't I release in two point seven? It's just
• 44:54
  Speaker 5: really pretty So I think in the long run, at
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: full frame two point seven.
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: It's going to become the ratio of choice to release them,
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: but very time with help.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Now, one other question I want to ask you, and
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: we kind of touched on it before, is the whole
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: resolution in this kind of arms race with the resolution,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you, in your opinion, are we
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: going to get to a point because I think we're
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: getting there for not there already that it just truly
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: does not like you can't like you know the Red
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: twenty K why like, so what's the next general? So
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: what's what are these camera manufacturers in your opinion, going
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: to do to get us to buy new cameras if
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: it's not resolution in your opinion.
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but and this is the problem. I mean again, look,
• 45:45
  Speaker 5: when digital came in, what did people rush for. They
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: rush for old speed tros. Frankly, the reason we decided
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: to do anamorphics. I've been asked to do anamorphics for
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: twenty years from the day I bought the company. Can
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: jump into anamorphics until digital is again for the same
• 46:03
  Speaker 5: reason people are looking to make digital interesting.
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: An anamalgic is a great way to do that.
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: I think we've already passed the point of no return
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: and what you were asked what people have lost sight of?
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: And this really annoys me with a large part of
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: the industry is that they're letting the technology wag the dog.
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: You know, it used to be the story would make
• 46:29
  Speaker 5: the decisions. And frankly, the ultimate resolution does not make
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: a picture that anybody wants to watch you And in fact,
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: usually the more resolution you have, the worse it gets.
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: So that's why. But that's why people are using the
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: old lenses. They're using them their animals. They're trying to
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: do put character into what is becoming a more more.
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: And more sterile image.
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: So I think you know, as they said, I think
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: this whole arms race that is a marketing bullshit. No
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: two for eight sixteen a million K. I know they're
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: engineers out there that will argue with me, but we're
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: not engineers at least I'm not an engineer. And my customers,
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: my ultimate customers, the filmmakers, they're not engineers. They're storytellers
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: and they have to pick the right tool that will
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: tell their story. And I'm sorry, it's hard for me
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: to imagine that I want to tell any kind of
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: drama or romantic comedy, or any kind of story in
• 47:36
  Speaker 5: twenty K resolution or even an eight kid, it's going
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: to look like shit.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: So yeah, the actors aren't aren't super happy about it,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: because I was looking at some of these images that
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: the DP did not know what they were doing. Some
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: of these movies are shot in these high high resolutions,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: and you start seeing every little thing on some aging
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: actors or actresses they just don't look at.
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: Mean, you're probably you're old enough to remember when HD took.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Over, right, Well, of course, of course I was. I
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: was there.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I was there when when Sony showed up, were on
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: the customer I saw, I saw, I was at a
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: workshop and I saw Sony show up with the first
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: HD cameras, like and they went out and we shot like, uh,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: you know, like you know, flowers and bumblebees and stuff.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: But can you imagine from the SD world to the
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: eighth just straight up nineteen twenty by ten eighty do.
• 48:25
  Speaker 5: You remember everybody panicked them because they had to you know,
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: the flats.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: You could see the scene in the flats, you can
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: you could.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: See everything, the makeup and all the cake you.
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: Had to change.
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: Okay, so we got to HD. And HD is still
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: within sort of the human vision per pre perview.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: For the most part.
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: But any anything beyond that, unless you're putting it on
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: a you know, a nine hundred foot screen is a waste,
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: is a waste of time. And as I said, you know,
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: we get all this resolution so I can watch the funnel,
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: watch the watch the movie be on my phone.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: So it's brutal. It's brutal, and nobody.
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: Was complaining that. You know, the Alexa was the most popular. No,
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: it's probably still as the most popular camera, which is
• 49:12
  Speaker 5: basically an HD camera on steroids. Right, it's not it's
• 49:15
  Speaker 5: not four K. And I've seen Alexa images projected on
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: you know, big, big, big like Leicester Square in England,
• 49:25
  Speaker 5: you know, big downtown theater screens, and you're not sitting
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: there saying, gee, I can see the space between the pixels.
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: I wonder. I wish they had had four K resolution
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: for this.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: So I shot.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: I shot my last film on the Black Magic Pocket
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: ten eighty P camera. The whole feature I shot on
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: that with some nice vintage glass and some nice new glass,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: and I projected on a theater. I was like, this
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: looks beautiful.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: It was fine.
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, you get the right images, the right
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: story exactly.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: And it works, right?
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Can you give me two hundred million dollars? I'm not
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: shooting it on the ten ADP camera.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: You know you give me two undred million dollars.
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you you know you say that. But again,
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: the story should drive the story. Then it should drive
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: your choices, not not the text. The last thing you
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: should choose. To me, it would be okay, this is
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: my story, blah blah blah. The camera and the lens
• 50:31
  Speaker 5: combination that will give me the look I'm looking for?
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: Is this right?
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: Now people say, oh, there's a new Mini LF, I
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: have to shoot my next movie on the Mini LF.
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: I must have it.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: I must have the next Red, I must have the
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: next Alexa.
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: Must that's I really think.
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: They said the tails wagging the dog, and I find
• 50:51
  Speaker 5: that really, I find that really sort of abdication of
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: responsibility of the dps.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I remember I was talking to a few
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: of my friends are in the AC and they were
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: telling me back in the days, like producers are telling
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: me what to shoot on now, Like they're like, we
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: need to shoot on red, we need to shoot on
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: this camera. And they're like, but I'm the DP. I'm
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: that's my job to choose.
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: That, right. Well, Yeah, digital is unfortunately.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: Changed all of it.
• 51:21
  Speaker 5: Yes, it's changed the roles. It's really changed the roles
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: of a lot of people in the set.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, without question.
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: Luckily for me, they still need one.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, you're still you're still
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: coming up, still coming up aces every time I do try.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna ask you a few questions, ask all
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: of my guests, what advice would you give a filmmaker
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: wanting to break into the business today?
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: Wow, not being a filmmaker myself. That's hard.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: But you've known a couple in the in your day.
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: I've known a few, you know.
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: Again, and I go back to the old days when
• 51:56
  Speaker 5: I started in the business, and I working with people
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: like Tom Siegel and Sandy Cecil and and most of
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: the people I used to work with an aton have
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: gone on to become a sc members.
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: So I mean, but they.
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: All worked, they all started. They all either went to
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: film school or they just went to a rental house
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: and they started by cleaning cases. And they would, you know,
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: they would have they would literally apprentice, you know, they'd
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: clean cases, they'd start working on the prep floor. Somebody
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: would notice them and say, yeah, you can be the
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: nine hundredth assistant on my this weekend when I'm doing something.
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: And they'd worked their way up, they'd become a first
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: and they'd become an operator. Then they'd start making films
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: and along that way, which could be you know, depending
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: on their talent, could be you know, at least years,
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: has not many years they would learn the craft. I
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: think a lot of people get out of a film
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: school day and say, I'm a.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: Defeat because I can afford a red. I'm a DP
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, Yeah, so.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: I would say, and what I've seen is the most
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: So if you're a DP, you obviously need to know
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: how to frame a shot. And I think, frankly, I
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: think a lot of people like the full frame cameras
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: because it does it does allow you to be a
• 53:18
  Speaker 5: little bit lazier, and in digital obviously allows you to
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: be much lazier. But full frame, you know, you didn't
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: quite get it right, but I can pan and scan
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: and maybe that's the shot I should have had it
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: there because I'm still going to release it in thirty five,
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: so that's the shot I should have had. So, you know,
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: so I think it'd become people become a little bit
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: less prepared, and I think digital did that in by itself.
• 53:45
  Speaker 5: Certainly in film you couldn't do that. You had to
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: really know what you would do. So but the real key,
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: you know, when the real key, besides having a good
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: eye for framing, is learning how to light. What's the
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: DFS His two tools or his tools are his camera,
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: his lens and his lighting and hopefully his talent to frame.
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: And people that know how to light could shoot super
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: right and make it really look good. And people that
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: don't know how to light if it looks good, it's
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: completely by accident. So but you learn that, you don't
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: necessarily learn that in a couple of years. In films,
• 54:23
  Speaker 5: you learn that by watching you know the masters, by
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: working on sets and watching the masters do this every day.
• 54:32
  Speaker 5: So I would what I would recommend to people is
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: just find uh, find some real get yourself in good
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: with some really good dps and work for them for
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: a while and learn everything you can.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Now, what is the lesson that took you the longest
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: to learn, Whether in the film business or in life.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: What is the lesson that put the longest to learn?
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: Just do everything. I'm a slow learner. But yeah, that's
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: a great question. I'm not sure I have an answer
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: for it.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: All right, No worries, no worries.
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: I'm not gonna worry. That's one of the things I learned.
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: Don't worry about what you can't when you can't answer.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Fair enough, fair enough? And now, what are three of
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: your favorite films of all time?
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: Oh that's unfair.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: I know, But for currently, at this moment in time,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: right now, three of your favorite films.
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: Well, I've got to say, gee, it should be let's
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: see all the films shot on Cook obviously.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got to be politically correct, you can't.
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: I was one of those guys that actually helped pull
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: the upset off of the Academy this year.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: I vote it for The Green Book. I thought that
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: was I thought it was a great book.
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: I thought it was I thought it was well done.
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: I hate films that we really hate films that lectured
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: to me and want to show me the way it
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: should be. I thought, I think The Green Book was
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: just a nicely put together great story. Yes, and there
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: was a message and all that, but I just thought.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: The performances, the writing and the performances were brilliant.
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, my wife preferred Bohemian Rhapsody. I didn't.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't do much for me if you take that,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: if you take the music out of that movie.
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: See Pancres by the way, and then of course I
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: should really want.
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: You know, Lady.
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: Gaga, Oh, Stars Born.
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: Stars Born, because that was shot by Maddie with Cook anamorphicsful,
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: that should be my favorite film, but I of all time, though,
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: you know, one of my favorite films. This is really corny,
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: but I'm an old guy. One of my favorite films
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: is oh, I'm also old.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: My mind is going Jimmy Cagney and Yankee Doodle Dandy. Okay,
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: I'm light fluffy.
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: I could watch that film probably twenty times and still
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: enjoy it.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: Very cool.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Now, where where can people find more about Cook and
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: uh and more about you?
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: Well, they don't need to know much about me, but
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: they can find more about Cook on cookoptics dot com. Also,
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: we just as of today, the US distributor for.
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: Cook used to be a company called ZGC, which is
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: a company you see the Cook Americas as of today.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: So but you can go to cookoptics dot com and
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: find out all you need to know.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: Very cool.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Least, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you and
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: geeking out on Cook, all things cook and lenses and stuff.
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: So today, So I appreciate your time. I know you're busy, man,
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: Say thank you so much.
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: Asie said, I can only talk about cook endlessly. If
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: you want to do this again for their six or
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: seven hours, give me a call, all right, shit it
• 58:01
  Speaker 5: thanks Allas.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: I want to Thankles so much for being on this show.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you for dropping knowledge bombs on knowledge bombs about
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: lenses and all things glass.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: So Thank you again Les.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: If you want to get information on anything we talked
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: about links to cook Glass and cook TV, head over
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: to Bulletproof Screenwriting dot TV Forward Slash three ninety eight.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. Guys, As always, keep
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Screenwriting dot tv.