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What a Dangerous Message · Walk Talk: Faith in Motion

• Pj: A new better covenant, the old one's obsolete. Once and for all, forgiveness for everybody? Hmm. That sounds a little bit different than a lot of things that I've been taught. But we'll get into my thoughts on that and a whole lot more today on this episode of Walk Talk. Randy Dupre: I brother, so the solo episode, I put that out. Man, I just felt so passionate about that sermon that I heard from Andrew Farley, and I just had to share my thoughts on it. And now I'm really curious, what were your thoughts? Pj: Well, man, I you know, I watched it and the very first thing that came to my mind was what a dangerous, dangerous message this is to the enemy. You know, what a dangerous Randy Dupre: Mm, mm, yeah. Wow. Pj: message this is to the enemy. And don't get me wrong, I'm sitting here watching it and there was a lot of old school indoctrination rising up in me. Like, wait a minute, wait a minute. And then I I I thought that it was very well laid out and explained the way Andrew Farley did it. I'd never heard I'll take that back. I've heard of Andrew Farley because I've heard you speak of him. Randy Dupre: Mm-hmm. Sure. But you've never actually listened to a sermon of his. Pj: I'm no no, this is this was the first time and and you know man, it it it's so crazy because I mean here here I was and and you know it's like all the all the objections to his message that that he addressed, you know, was brought up in me right before he addressed them because you know I I I've been in the services that teach the these other things and Randy Dupre: Mm. Pj: And one of the things, man, I I'll tell you, it is hard. I mean, you know, we've we kind of talked about this, you know, I mean, w it it's been less than a year ago, you know, even even before we started this podcast, you know, some of these ideas and and keeping things in context, man, e even though you you kind of know these things, until you kind of get to spend some time away from that other ideology and a other way of thinking, man, it it's hard not to fall back in. Randy Dupre: Right. Right. Pj: one of the one of the most notable moments for me, was r really whenever he was talking about, you know, like okay, well, you know, what laws written on our hearts. I'm like, you know, I'm like, you know, put no love God with everything you got, put nobody else above him and love your neighbor as you love yourself. And he was like, Yeah, that's the wrong answer. And I was like, What? This dude and see and so I'm like, Okay, well here he goes. He's he's he's Randy Dupre: Mm. Me too. Me too. Pj: Going off the rails, and then he's like, Well, oddly enough, and then I'm like, wait a minute. Right. Well, well, but it but again, the argument would have been, well, Jesus told us, but contextually, no, Jesus told Pharisees versus Jesus told us, and so it's like, man, again, context, context, context. It's so it's it's pivotal, man. It really is. It is, and and here's another thing that. Randy Dupre: Oddly enough, Jesus actually told us what what what those commandments are. Pj: This is the other thing that came to my mind. Well, matter of fact, let me put it like this. this is this is kinda how how I worked it out i i in in in my mind. So let's just say for the sake of argument, I want to move across the country, okay? And you tell me, brother, you say, you know what? I know somebody who can help you with that. Okay, cool with it. And you're like, Hey, look, this this guy, just you just tell him what kind of house you want. He he'll have it picked out, he'll negotiate it, he'll he'll work everything out. I'm like, Well Randy Dupre: Mm-hmm. Pj: What about what about money? Don't even worry about that man. He'll he'll pay for it. All it all you need to do is sell your house here, pack up everything, drive across the country and be ready to show up and and and live in in in your dream house. I'm like, wow. Okay. Now that's kind of how I I see this message in a way. You know, I feel like this message, although it seems easier, requires more faith, right? Because we we're not doing nothing. Now, don't get me wrong. If I if I pick out my own agent and I go pick out my own house and I drop down on deposit and I did I do X, Y, and Z, I know what to look forward to. I I had a part in this. You know what I mean? Randy Dupre: Mm. Right. Right. Pj: I I I so that just blindly trusting some that I'm gonna show up somewhere and this guy's gonna have everything worked out for me requires a lot more faith. So it like I whenever I'm sitting here looking at it, like, man, we could either trust that it Jesus the work is finished and and you know our belief in in what he did is gonna be sufficient, or is it easier to say, well Randy Dupre: Right. Pj: I know because you know what I cut out X, Y, and C. You know, I I I did the things, right? I ch I I know that it it it's not what saved me, but there are some boxes that I check, so I feel a lot, a lot better about just just trusting, right? I 'cause I've I've I've at least played some kind of part. I've I've had some kind of hand in. It's hard to get out of that way of thinking, man. It really is. You know what mean? So it's just it's just wild, man. Like I I just kinda Randy Dupre: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Pj: I was just like, man, I feel like this message of of, you know, all of our sins are forgiven and and you know, we that that has given us the the ability that is made that has made it possible for us to attain salvation through through our our belief and through, you know, God's gift of grace and salvation. Like here you go. Like, dang, okay. And and and I think that that's where where the struggle comes in. And it's like, okay, well now what? Randy Dupre: Mm-hmm. Pj: Well now, you know what? Honestly, if you if you've really been born again and made a new creation and you have a new heart, then maybe they're the you know, the the now one is is a lot easier because maybe you just now follow your new heart, you know, because it's not wicked above all things and deceitful and and and it really, you know, it's chasing after God. You know, th this I and and I know it it might sound a little contradictory to to kind of Randy Dupre: Right. Pj: Say, well, listen, you this is new covenant, new covenant, so let's focus on that. But I mean, you know, yeah, the Bible does say that that our hearts are wicked above all things and and and deceitful and and and all these things. But then you you got like one of the the biggest references to to any biblical figure in relationship to the heart, and it said David was a man after God's own heart. Okay, so what if that's us now? What if we are sons and daughters after God's own heart? It seems to me that. Randy Dupre: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm. I love that. Pj: that it would be logical to to be able to trust them a little bit more and follow them a little bit more. 'Cause it's not it's not a heart made of stone that that we were born into sin with via Adam. No, no, no. No, no, no. This heart is heart has been restored and made new. So man, it was just it yeah, it was some some good stuff, brother. Randy Dupre: Mm. I and I yeah, and I and I love to take and and I love that you brought up, you know, the fact that it does take more faith. And I love that you brought up David, because those are two things that didn't come to mind to me initially, but w as soon as you said it, I'm like, man, those are those are good things to think about because you know, f let's start with David. Look at what David did. I mean, this dude was a murderer and Throughout everything he did, all the sins that he committed. The Bible says that he was a man after God's heart. And not only that, but he was like the standard, like for all of Israel. Like, you know, no one ever questioned the faith of David, regardless of all his flaws being public, all his laundry being aired out in public. And even David, you know, despite his many sins, like he you could tell from the Psalms of David that, like, He still had a relationship with God. He's like, Yeah, I know I sinned, but he had faith enough to know that that sin wasn't gonna disqualify him from the promises of God. And that's where we need to be because, like you said, it does take more faith. I mean, if you, you know, for example, believe that you are, you know, in a right relationship with God because You say a certain number of prayers every day and you do a certain number of tasks every day and you give a certain amount every day and you don't do this and you don't do that and you don't do the other thing. And I say, you know what? I believe that I'm in a right relationship with God, even though sometimes I do though do those things that you mention, and I probably shouldn't. And and I'm not able to always do the good things that you mention. But I I believe even still that, you know, Jesus has already. Done enough and he's done it all. Who has more faith? It's the person that that believes that they don't have to necessarily do any of those things. If you look at me and you say, man, I don't understand how you could believe you're a Christian. You you swear, you drink, you blah, blah, blah. And then my response would be, then I might just have more faith than you do, because I do believe that I'm in a right relationship with God, because I don't believe there's anything that I did to put myself in that right relationship. Therefore, I don't believe there's anything I could do to take myself out of it. Pj: Right. So a a couple of things I I I wanna say real quick, to to what you said. So so going back to David, you know, I and and I might be completely off basis, but this is just kind of my take on and I was just having this conversation with one of my sons the other day. I said, you know why I think that that David was probably, you know, the way he was described was as a man after God's own heart. Because like you you you just mentioned, like Man, there's there's plenty documented evidence of David sinning just like we sin. So does that set him apart? What why would we not all be men after God's own heart if, you know, it was something along those lines? But what I think I see in scripture is if you remember correctly, you know, David and and his his closest are on the run because Saul wants to kill him for no reason. And guess what? David finds King Saul in a cave and has a a chance to kill him, but does not. Because he loves him too much. Randy Dupre: doesn't do it. And because he's anointed by God. Pj: He he believed he's anointed by God and he says, you know what? Even though you know I'd I'd I have every right to kill you. I'm I'm not. You know what I mean? And and whenever whenever Saul died, he lamented. So, you know, he was same thing with his own son, right? Who who was trying to overthrow him. You know what I mean? He had every right to go against his son, but but he didn't. I I think that the that part of him Being a man after God's own heart is is seeing people who who did not deserve his grace, did not deserve his mercy, deserve to be killed and said, Nope, that's what you get for going against, you know, me. And and and what you see there is grace and forgiveness and love and and and sorrow for these people, even whenever they die, even though they ultimately wronged him. I'm like, that's what I see as far as a characteristic as of of, you know. being like God in in that in that way, just having that gracious love no matter what, whether they deserve it or not. Randy Dupre: Yeah. I I think I think those are great points, man, because you're right. He did, he displayed a lot of the characteristics of God that we generally associate with the new, the New Testament God, the New Covenant God, right? Like people because a lot of people will make that, you know, criticism. They'll Well, how come the old God was all about judgment and wrath? And the new God was no, no, no, no. God was the same throughout, but the covenants were different, and there was a different point in time in history where different things were happening. Pj: Right, hundred percent. Mm the same, yeah. Randy Dupre: But the fact that you just, you know, rightly pointed out, David was literally displaying God's heart to us, to to the to those around him, without, you know, maybe people even really recognizing it. Like you said, the grace, the mercy, the faith. Yeah. Pj: And and even even the the humility in in in certain ways because you think about it Paul came in and anointed wait yeah no no no Samuel's Samuel excuse me Samuel Sam yeah Samuel came and anoint David and said you're gonna be the next king and David is sitting here knowing that he's picked by God still in service to to Saul like you know what listen Randy Dupre: Saul. yeah, Samuel. Samuel anointed Saul and then he anointed David. Mm. Pj: I'm not trying to overthrow, like I I will, I will play my role until God raises me up. You know, so you see that humility there, you see a lot of the characteristics of God's heart. but but yeah, man, so and and then going back to you know what you were saying about it it it it taking more faith, man. I you know require more faith. I'm I believe that a lot of people do and do not do things. based off of the spirit of religion because it's either a good look or it ain't. You know what I mean? And I'm like, man, listen, yeah if if your heart is really in alignment and seeking after God and not the things of this world, then you don't care what the people around you think, whether it be the world or or the the the church body, you're not worried about how they view you. You're Randy Dupre: Right, right. Pj: you your only worry, your only concern should be hearing well done, my good and faithful servant at the end. That's it. So guess what? If if if you stop doing stuff because you're like, hey, well, you know what? This seems like it's probably bad and you know, other Christians probably wouldn't look it's like, man, okay, well, yeah, you got you gotta you gotta check check your own temperature, you know, check the posture of your heart because guess what? You know You and an atheist could not be doing the same things and and outwardly it looks like, what? Well they're those they're you know, hey, look at those two outstanding citizens, you know, what what good examples of of human beings they are. But guess what? They're they're ultimately not headed in the right direction, or they are, but it's it's the wrong direction, you know what I mean? So you just gotta be careful, man. Randy Dupre: Absolutely. Yeah, and and I think, you know, the fact that it does take more faith to really accept the work as being finished is something that goes contrary to our sin nature that you know that we started off with when we were born and the flesh that we still continue to struggle with after we're born again. And so and so, you know, my my thinking is, you know. We know that the disciples, they didn't really understand what Jesus was doing while he was doing it. They didn't understand. I mean, he kept telling them he was gonna die. And they were like, No, you're not, you're not gonna die. What are you talking about? They're they're talking about their position in the kingdom, like the kingdom's happening next week, and they want to know who's gonna be like, you know, the top official or the governor of whatever territory. Like they didn't know what was going on, and that's why they scattered. That's why they were scared when he was arrested and and and Pj: Right. Randy Dupre: It wasn't until after he was resurrected that things finally, you know, started to click and they finally started to put the pieces together. And I believe it took years after Jesus ascended for the Holy Spirit to come into them and start to reveal not only the things that Jesus had taught them, but then how that made sense in light of the scriptures and how he fulfilled the scriptures. And that's why Paul played such a crucial role because you know, I think God, you know, scared. He saved, he called Saul to help out in that area because I think that there it was a struggle for you know the Jews who, you know, were used to following all these rules and all these commandments and having this very, very structured way of life, go into the synagogue. You know, I know that at dusk on on Friday, that's the beginning of the Sabbath, and I and I can't walk too many steps because that's considered work and I can't do this and I can't do that. And And all these different things that they had the all this structure and all these parameters around their life to go from that to I'm free, I'm totally free in Christ Jesus. And yeah, I'm free to sin, but I don't even want to sin anymore. And when I sin, it's not even me who's doing it anyway. Like that's a big shift. And I think it took really years and probably decades for even those those who like, you know, learn directly from Jesus to fully grasp and understand it. And so, in my opinion, I think that as the church started to, you know, get structure around it and formulate into an organization, they struggled with that as well. And that's why we have some of the teachings that we have today, like you gotta, you know, confess your sins to a priest, or you have to give, you know, certain amounts to receive grace and forgiveness, or actually, you know, God Jesus' sacrifice only forgave your, your, your, what did what do they call it? Your the sin you're born with. what is the term for that? Your original sin. His sacrifice only forgave your original sin, but you're gonna have to go to purgatory to, you know, pay off the rest of the sin that you commit throughout your life. They came up with all these crazy things because I believe the flesh just struggles so much with just giving up control and saying, God, I'm just gonna place my faith in you and trust in you that it really is finished and there's nothing I have to do. I think it's just been a struggle throughout the centuries. Pj: Yeah. Yeah. Well, i and I mean I I think you look at how we struggle, right? So we we struggle being taught their culture, you know, and from the Bible. these pe I mean they they grew up in this. So I of course, you know, I I I say I'd I I still struggle with trying to be unindoctrinated, you know what I mean, and and unlearn some of the things that I've been taught over the years. I mean, these these guys literally grew up in this culture and and this was their everything and so trying to unlearn that I'm sure was was a lot more difficult. And yeah, man, I I I do a hundred per percent think that, you know, it is our our sin nature that that tries to tries to just confuse us and and and and tell us like, man, you gotta do something. You gotta do something. I mean w you know, I you could probably go ask a first grader, you know, and they could they can just instinctually quote, you know, ain't nothing in this world free. Like, well actually, you know, grace salvation is is free because it's already well, it's already been paid at least. You know, like so I mean there there's these these little nuances and these things in in the culture that in in it make us so inherently distrusting and and and especially in something like this. But what what I would just say to that is is yeah, not only does it does it seem like man, you know, it it it takes it it it takes Randy Dupre: Mm. Pj: like a more of a leap of faith now to say, you know what, I'm legitimately, fully, completely not only surrendering, but trusting, right, that that that my salvation is secure based off of nothing. And like I I think we do a a relatively okay job with with with saying there's nothing that I could do. But then we struggle with like, well what should what should I do? Right. And and and I think that Randy Dupre: Right. Pj: the way Andrew Farley put it, it is like, man, I again like I said, I think that, you know, that's a that's a very eye opening ex you know, a statement to say, you know, you don't truly know what you want until you're completely free. So so I mean, I would yeah. So so I would say for for the believer or non believer out there who who may have seen this and and is sitting there wrestling and struggling back and forth with Randy Dupre: Right. that was good. That was good. Pj: With how to take this and what to believe, what not to believe. I mean, I would say spend some time, some quiet time, whether that be in prayer if you're a believer, or just just you know, intro you know, reflecting on your on your own just spend some quiet time and think. Like really, if if there was legitimately no consequence to your behavior, whether you You know, call it sinning or do just doing whatever you want. If you were able to legitimately do whatever your heart desired without co consequence, what would those things be? What would that look like? And and and guess what? As a believer, if if th those things may seem to align more with the world, then hey, listen, I I would say, you know, that that might be that by might be a a a deeper conversation that you need to have with God and spend some time in prayer. Randy Dupre: Yeah. Pj: and and I I will tell you that that that's kind of what hit me. It made me think like, okay, well, like what are what are my my my heart's desires? Because don't get me wrong, like most people, you know, since I started walking with the Lord, there yeah, I have a checklist of things that I don't do anymore. You know what I mean? And and and what I you know, my my behavior has changed a lot and and the way that I look at things has changed a lot. But what I had to do there was go back and start Randy Dupre: Uh-huh. Pj: reevaluating these things and and thinking like okay well why did i stop these things or why did i start these things like where what what's the motivation right was it what was it because hey that's what they say you're supposed to do or or did did my what did i really have a change of heart in certain areas because i will tell you this you know full transparency i i don't ever try to appear to be better than i am or holier than now like man i i'll wear my my crap on my sleeve and the people Randy Dupre: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Pj: Who know me personally and that I'm close to, like, man, I have no problem telling them, you know, the the times whenever I mess up. Because I the what I don't want is to appear to be hypocritical or for somebody to feel like I'm trying to, you know, present myself in a better light than than I'm really am in. Because, you know, to me, that that's one of my biggest struggles. Like I've mentioned before, growing up in in in in a place like the the church that we went to whenever we were younger. Because I'd previously been Catholic and in in in in that arena, all you have to do is show up to and your your box is checked. You don't have to be engaged. You don't have to be striving to, you know, g get plugged in. So I've spent time in a church where people are like, look, what a what a good young man. Look, he goes to church all the time. And and and you know, it was it was all it was just all Randy Dupre: Right, right. Ha ha ha. Pj: like a spirit of religion. I'm like, man, I don't gotta do nothing here. I I've checked the box. I showed up. And and people people apparently think that I'm doing right, ps good enough for me. And I I I I don't ever want that again. You know what I mean? Randy Dupre: Well and and I think, you know, and I'm not trying to criticize any, you know, denominations or anything like that, but I think like that comes from, you know, the Catholic tradition and then ultimately from the Jewish tradition, because you know, there seems to be this this tradition in Judaism that if you are children of Abraham, if you're just part of the Abrahamic community, if you are a Jewish person by blood, if you just do the bare minimum, you're like in, you're in with the promises of God. Pj: Yeah. Randy Dupre: And I've talked to Catholics personally who have basically voiced something s very similar, but they replace, you know, Judaism and Abraham with Catholicism, you know, and and they say things to the effect of, you know, well, you know, I like because I remember having a conversation with a deacon long time ago. And this was a guy that I worked with who was a deacon. And I asked him, I said, dude, like tell me why do you believe you have to confess to a priest? Because look, first of all, like I believe my sins are forgiven. I don't need to confess them. Second of all, like I don't really have a problem with confessing. Like, you know, I think it's cool to get things off your chest and talk to somebody. And I and I'm kind of envious in a little little way that you have a guy that's just chilling there waiting for you to go and talk to him in the confessional. But like, why do you think it's necessary and and don't you believe in the forgiveness? And this was his perspective. This I'm not saying this is the perspective of the whole Catholic church, but his perspective was, no, I do believe that my sins are forgiven, but I believe that when I sin, I am Out of my relationship, my relationship with the church is broken, and I therefore need the church to forgive me so I could be brought back into that community because the salvation is through the church. And I was like, okay, I never heard that before, but his explanation made sense to me. Not that I agreed with it or believed it, but it made sense to me at that point as to why he did it. I don't know if most Catholics see it the same way. I tend to think that. Most Catholics believe what's on face value, which is no, I'm in a broken relationship with God. I need this priest to forgive my sins. He's going to give me the roadmap to do that by telling me to say, you know, a certain number of prayers or do certain acts of charity, what have you. And that's gonna, you know, get me forgiveness with God. I don't think most people see it the way he saw it, as it's mending the relationship with the church. But even still, I think that's where that comes from. That that feeling of like all I gotta do is show up and be part of a community. And look. Being part of a community is great. I think that's one of the the benefits of being saved is you get to be part of the best community, the community of of God and a community of people who worship and love God and want to, you know, express that love to each other. But, you know, you're right to say that like there is like this spirit of like religion that people think that's just that's enough. Like they don't really need to have a personal relationship. They don't need to truly believe and receive. They just need to be surrounded by people who do. Pj: Well, a hundred percent. And and I think that, you know, the the the priest is is almost clear cut evidence of that, right? It's like, you know, a and look again, I'm not bashing Catholics by by any shape of the imagination and and I mean if if any I know there's a lot of people a lot of Catholic people I've seen who, you know, like to argue the the point of of of why they they believe the way they do and and and things like that and and that's that's fine. I I'm just telling you from my experience in the Catholic Church. But I I mean the even the idea of confessing to a priest, all that does is is cause this separation, makes you feel like you need a middleman between you and God. So how is that how is that a relationship? You know what I mean? It's like it so the Bible tells us that, you know, that the veil was torn and I have direct access to God with Jesus as my my mediator, the great mediator. And you're telling me like, no, don't go to God. You you're not good enough to go to God. Come to me, I'll bring it to God for you. Like, okay. Randy Dupre: Right. Right. And and to me, when I read verses that says to like confess your sins to one another, to me that's not saying you need a mediator like a priest. You it to me that's saying like that's just like brethren like praying for each other. That you that yeah, exactly. That's exactly what that Pj: That's f that's yeah, that's fellowship, iron sharpening iron, holding each other accountable. You know what I mean? That's what that is. That's that's me saying, Hey, look, bro, you know what? If I know that I gotta tell you when I mess up, it might be a little bit harder for me to mess up. So can you hold me accountable in this area? You know what I mean? Randy Dupre: Yeah, I mean, and even beyond that, I mean, because you know, my my standpoint is I I think we focus, I agree with Andrew Farley, I think we focus too much on sin for me to even honestly to for me to even go that far, I just would say I feel the the therapeutic benefit of confessing my sin and having someone pray for me. You know what I mean? Like, hey, here's where I'm struggling. Can you just pray for me? Can we just pray about this together or at least remember me when you are in prayer? Because I do think that prayer is, you know, powerful and changes things. Pj: yeah, absolutely. Or or from the perspective of saying, like, listen, man, like I just I just want to tell you what I'm what I'm struggling with and you be like, Hey listen, man, I've been there. So I'm like, wait a minute, okay. I thought I was you know, because we know that the enemy definitely likes to make us feel isolated and and alone and and like it's it's just us and you know that that just feeds in into, you know, giving him a foothold. So yeah, I I mean I I think that there's there's some benefits there too. But yeah, man, yeah, th this was I mean Randy Dupre: Mm-hmm. Pj: I it it's wild. I man so I I mean I guess this is this is my introduction to Andrew Farley and now i is he is he like does he have a big church or what what's that look like? I mean Randy Dupre: You know, to be honest with you, I'm not sure of the size of his church, just gathering because I do t typically tune in live or at least I'll catch the broadcasts after the fact on Sundays. I I think he's got one or two campuses that tune in. So I think he's got two or three campuses in total. He's got one where he's live, and then he's got it sounds like he's got at least one other campus that, you know, streams his sermon. And then he always mentions, you know, people streaming all over the world. Like People like me, who I would say, you know, I consider myself to be a long distance, you know, member. but I don't think he's anywhere near like the mega church like category. I think he's I think he's well below that. Let me look it up. Pj: Yeah. Well, I mean, I I could just tell I I can tell from from the the quality of the recording and not to say that it was bad, but I'm just saying usually, you know, they they love to pan out to show you how big of an arena he is. And you know, while he was standing there on the pulpit, I did see heads, so it doesn't you know, it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of separation, like he's on a on on a on a very big platform or anything like that. And that's not to take anything away from him. I it's just Randy Dupre: Sure. Pj: It's just simply to note that like, man, you know, I I believe that that was a pretty solid message. you know, I I believe it's it's a message that does give both the believer and non believer a lot of hope. And, you know, it does make the the gospel absolutely sound like good news. And you know, I so I was just kind of curious. And and and where where is he from? Randy Dupre: Mm. So it says here, he has two campuses. So I was close. it's called the Grace Church. One campus is is in Lubbock and one is in the Dallas Irving area. I'm pretty sure he's in the Dallas Irving one because I'm pretty sure I've heard him say like he's had visitors from the Lubbock campus attend and he usually like highlights that. Now, AI doesn't give us a number of people. It says there's nothing published in terms of like weekly attendance or anything like that. However, it does say that he gets over 120,000 weekly viewers and listeners through the various different like channels that he publishes his you know broadcasts and whatnot to through. one of the reasons why I tend to think that he probably does have a relatively small church and it's not mega mega church status. Is because I've emailed the guy several times and he actually responds back. So and and he doesn't know me from Adam. I just emailed him out of the blue with questions and he actually responds. And I I I doubt that anyone with tens of thousands of members would have the time or even ever see that email. so you know, so I don't know. I mean, if I had to guess, I'm gonna say he's probably under that 2000, which you know, is considered mega church, but who knows? Pj: Wow. Yeah. Randy Dupre: the main thing is they're reaching a lot of people. He's got, you know, Bibleanswors dot org, I think is the website where you can literally go in and type at any question. I think there's even an app and they got their own version of AI that that filters your questions through the grace message and through the lens of the new covenant to give you solid answers. And I've used it myself and it's it's awesome. Pj: yeah, we we need to l link that, man, really. I I think that that would be such an important tool for for anybody who would stumble upon this episode and and and have those kind of questions, man. And and you know what what kind of came to mind i i is is because I'm I'm gonna tell you like once once I I kind of I don't know if it would be called Quiet in My Flesh, but like once all the things that he said that I felt like contradicted all the doctrine that I've been taught my whole life, stopped being being like, wait, and I just kind of like started just listening. I'm like, man, this is, you know, that this, this just it really does just it it it it allows you, it's a message that allows you to breathe like a sigh of relief and just be like, who man, that's that that sounds like s so much better. And you know, just not sounds like a a a l a lot more restful and and peaceful and graceful message. And and and so it it it made me think like similar to how, you know, Kirk Cameron hosted the Hellgate deal and and and had people on both sides, like I would I would love to see, you know, just him like with in in a room answering questions from another pastor who teaches the other theology, you know, who who who doesn't, you know, necessarily see the the distinct contrast between the old and the new covenant. And because man, realistically, I mean there's I I've seen pastors, you know, both in person and online that I that I respect and and and I I I know that they're passionate and I know you can see that they love the Lord. And and I I've seen them make great points and and I've seen them Randy Dupre: Right. Pj: also do this same thing where it's like they start out making a point based in the new covenant and they start they try to use the old covenant to to anchor it home and I'm like okay and and it's don't get me wrong yeah it's easy to I mean you could follow the correlations they're talking about a lot of the same things. Well of course they are you know what I mean it's like there's nothing new under the neat the sun you know but it it is important Randy Dupre: Right. Right. Pj: to to remember the context. Yeah, well y I we can sit here and say, well look, they they dealt with this in the new covenant. Well they dealt with it in the old covenant. That's a hundred percent correct. But I mean it's it's like it's like the idea of of like my my wife if if she was upset with me because she's like I heard that you said that you're gonna love whoever, you know, somebody maybe before her forever. Randy Dupre: Yeah. Pj: And I'll and I if I were to say, well well yeah, I I I did say that whenever I was with her twenty years ago. But to d since I've met you, I've never said those words. You know what I mean? So you can't be mad that I said it back whenever it was relevant to her, but I've never said it since I've been in this covenant with you. You know what I mean? So it's like it it's a you know, that's a maybe a bad analogy, but I mean it it's like Randy Dupre: Mm-hmm. Right. Right, right. Pj: If we're if we're looking backwards to to you know, well this was said. Well, yeah, it was said. And at the time it was it was factual and and in that context being said there, no problems. Now, yeah, if I said, I love whoever today forever, and my wife definitely has cause to be like, you know what, that's not right. You're I'm your wife, blah, blah, blah. But I mean, it's just me, you but but it it's it's easy to do. You know what I mean? It's easy to just connect the dots and saying, we're talking about this topic. Well Randy Dupre: Right. yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Pj: You know, it's it's back and forth. So Randy Dupre: Yep. So small correction. So I just found the app on my phone. It's biblequestions.com. And if you could see it, it looks like that. It's the white with the blue around it. And so not.org, it's biblequestions.com. And and you know, to your point, I was thinking about this earlier when you're when you were talking, you know, the the way In this sermon, Andrew Farley describes the old covenant versus the new covenant and the need for the new covenant and how the new covenant is superior was just refreshing and new to me, even though it didn't really. I didn't, I wouldn't say I learned anything I didn't already know or anything that I hadn't heard before. But I mean, look, we're so used to hearing people say, you know, Jesus died for our sins, he lived the perfect life that we could never live, he fulfilled the law that we could never fulfill. What we've heard those kind of statements before. I never heard it before, though, quite in the context of the old covenant, which said the old covenant was inferior, not because anything was wrong with the old covenant, but because it relied on God and it relied on us. And the us part was failing. Therefore, it was inferior. And therefore, we needed a new covenant where it didn't rely on us because the us part was actually failed by God too, and the pr in the person of Jesus. And Pj: Yeah. Right. Randy Dupre: Like, I don't know, man. Just like, even though I had heard it said in slightly different ways throughout my whole life, just hearing it put into that context really just solidified to me in my mind and helped it to go from here to here because it's really solidified in my mind the fact that no, there is no no blending of the covenants. There is no a little bit of Moses sprinkled on over my Jesus, no little bit of law sprinkled on my grace. No, it is a done deal. The old covenant was inferior for this. Pj: Are you there you you've you froze up on me. Randy Dupre: Reason and and we could try to come up with all these different theological viewpoints and add all these big clever words and invent things that aren't in the Bible to try to find workarounds to somehow say, No, there's still something that I need to do. I still need to do XYZ. And and it just there's no place for it. There's just no place for it because if it was possible, Jesus showed up and said, Look, guys, look, if it's possible, here's what you need to do. Now go do it. All you got to do is just, you know, if you're if you're if you're you know, if you if you think evil thoughts, realize that that's committing murder. So don't think evil, hateful thoughts. And if you think lustful thoughts, realize that's committing adultery. So don't even think those thoughts. Like that's all you gotta do. That's all you gotta do is go love God perfectly. Just go do it. And then you won't need me to, you know, to to to to do it for you. And no one could do it. And and Jesus came and and and basically told everybody with Pj: Yeah. Randy Dupre: With his teachings, that even if you thought you were doing it, even if you thought for a second that you were holding up your end of the covenant, realize that you are so far, it's like you trying to jump to the moon. So even if you thought you were doing good, you're not. So therefore, that covenant is inferior, not because the covenant was bad, but because there's no way you could do it. We're bad. Yeah. Pj: Yeah. We're bad. Yeah, we're bad essentially. And and and and that's the thing, you know, what we do in this new covenant is still try insert the us into it at every chance we get. You know what mean? So and yeah, I mean there there was some some of that stuff that I'd heard you know, before, but I I do like the way Andrew Farley put it it and stuff like that. And like I said, I mean there are still some some questions on some other things that I would I would be interested in hearing his view. Randy Dupre: Exactly. Pj: his viewpoint on and you know, it it's like some of some of the the other bigger scriptures, you know, some of your stuff in in Revelation and and things like that. And and just to kinda get his take and and and how does that align with with with this message, you know what mean? Randy Dupre: Like what in particular? I maybe I could look it up and see if there's already an answer. Pj: So well no, so okay, so like, you know, or or like even in I'm trying to think where it's at, you know, just certain verses like make sh making sure that we you know, that our our basically our lamps don't run out of oil or you know what I mean, that we endure to the end. you know, that we are not lukewarm. Or n you know, just those those kind of verses. the lukewarm one I believe is Randy Dupre: Let's start with the endure to the end, because I was able to start typing that one. Let's see if what it says here. I typed in what does it mean to endure to the end? Let's just see what the app has to say. It says endure to the end doesn't mean stay tough enough to keep your salvation. It means keep trusting Jesus through whatever comes. Don't give up on the truth of the gospel. In the new covenant, believers are already forgiven once for all, eternally accepted, and unified with Christ by his finished work. Jesus didn't make your salvation something you maintain. Pj: Okay. Randy Dupre: He secured it. Hebrews ten, ten and fourteen. So enduring is about continuing to lean on Christ, not performing to stay in God's favor. Pj: Mm. See, yeah, because you know, the thing about it is is and this might just be from my perspective, but what I've seen happen, right, is ev even, you know, whenever with the the beginnings of me hearing a grace message and being like, wow, that really makes sense. That takes a lot of the the this load that I've been carrying on my own shoulders that made it hard for me to want to sh Randy Dupre: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you saying the the your your burden is getting light? Sorry. Pj: Right, right. Well that that that's exactly what it was. No, that's exactly what it was, man. Like I spent so much time worrying about my own salvation and whether or not I had attained it yet or if if I was doing this right that I was like, man, I I don't know that I want to share this message with anybody yet because it feels it's Right, right, exactly. And that's 'cause I'm like this this feels heavy. It's like, you know, this is this is a lot. Like I spent a lot of man, like you you don't know how many songs that I would hear Randy Dupre: It's it's almost like his yoke is easy and burden is light, huh? Pj: that would just like that's what I was I was grasping at these songs. Like there's a crowder song that says he's working on me still. And and and Randy Dupre: Well, let me just say this like because I attend virtually, I have noticed that they are very intentional in the selection of songs that they play for worship at Andrew Farley's church. Now, guaranteed, if you do listen, if you do scream, you'll probably know every single one of the ones that they play. But there's probably certain ones that you will never hear. And it's probably songs like that where you're mentioning anything that says that we're not close enough to God or there's anything we still need to do. Or we're still being worked on, like those kind of things. Like I I haven't heard any songs that mention anything like that. Pj: Well, but it was songs like that, like where where I it I was able to relate 'cause I'm like, man, I still I I s I keep thinking I'm letting you down. You know what I mean? Still. And and and and so, you know, there's another guy, I can't it's the same guy that sings Don't Stop Praying. I can't think of his name right now. But he he sings this other song. I and I've talked about it with you before, but like I I like there's this one part he says I used to think that Grace was a ladder. Randy Dupre: Right, right. Pj: that you know that we were supposed to climb or whatever. And and then so, you know, and I'm like, these things were all relatable because it's like, you know, you come into this walk and then you get these instructions and you don't understand them. And then you try hard and you fail and you fail and you fail and and you legitimately are feeling and also that this this feeling that you have is is is being confirmed like yep, God's probably not too happy with you. And it's like, well golly Randy Dupre: Yeah. Pj: I I w what was better whenever I I felt like I didn't know him, he didn't know me, or knowing that we know each other and he's mad at me now. Like this feels terrible, you know. Randy Dupre: Right. I mean mean dude, one of the songs that's still in my worship playlist is Tree Sixty Three. You know, what can I do for you? Look what you've done for me. What can I do for you, my Lord? And it's like nothing. You can't do anything. Like, believe and have faith. That's really literally it. Like, you know, I mean, so anyway, but hey, I do I did I did put in the other question about the lampstand. So you're gonna want to hear this. You ready? Pj: Yeah. Okay. Randy Dupre: Okay, so this is this is good AI, I will say on this app. So I just got just to show everybody right here, I got the got the question in there, got the answer. All I said was, What about keeping oil in the lampstands? Great question, because in Revelations, keeping the lampstand is about keeping the testimony alive, not maintaining salvation. Jesus says to the churches, remember, repent. If not, I will remove your lampstand. Revelations 2 5. That isn't lose your sins again. Believers don't get re forgiven or reaccepted in the new covenant. You're already perfectly forgiven in Christ, Hebrews 10, 10, and 14 again. So the lampstand issue isn't about impact to witness. It is it is about impact and about witness, not about forgiveness. So he's basically saying, look, keep an oil in your lampstand is all about how you're going to make an impact on the world and witness for Christ. And then it says what lampstand means. All right, sorry, go ahead. Pj: No, no, I I was just gonna say the the oil in the lamp that I was referring to was whenever Jesus Jesus was given the parable of the ten virgins and w they were waiting on the bridegroom and remember so Randy Dupre: Yeah, yeah. So let's let me keep reading. Let's see if it talks about that. So it says, what lampstand means? The lampstand represents the churches, they're their living witness in the world. Revelations 120. Removing the lance lampstand means your public effectiveness and testimony get shut down. Not that Jesus stopped loving loving you. what it looks like to keep oil in the lampstand, not work up spirituality or squeeze more forgiveness out of God, but stay lit by grace. Stay lit by grace. That's in that's interesting. Pj: so he you know, here's a here's a crazy thing. another thing that I was kinda talking to to one of my boys about, man, was, you know, the this this verse of, you know, ge the people saying, Hey look, Jesus, we did all these things in your name and he says, Depart from me, I never knew you, right? Well, like what we were having a conversation was was people who are seeking after the the love and relationship of Jesus and people are who searching or seeking after the power and authority in his name, right? And and so like I think that that for for people who who are doing all these things in his name, like that's that's their re they're getting their reward. That's what they want. They want to be known like, man, that that dude will lay hands on you and you will be healed. You know, but they're they Randy Dupre: Mm. Right. Right. Pj: They spent all their time chasing after the power and authority in Jesus' name that they never took the time to get to know Jesus himself. You know what I mean? And so that was kind of the conversation that we were having. And and I was kind of like, I I said to me, that's that's what I think that is. I said, I d now don't don't get me wrong. Do I believe that there are people who are in in relationship with with Jesus that that will do those things? Absolutely. But you know, again, you have to make sure it's like it is is the power. and and authority in Jesus' name a a a perk of your relationship with them or is it the focal point? You know what mean? So Randy Dupre: Yeah. Well, I mean, and and or is it either? I mean, i i is the power and authority, you know, to me it's just it's just to spread the good news. That's all it's it's given for. I mean, just like the spiritual gifts. Like, you know, when I see, you know, someone doing mass healings of believers on a stage and all kinds of crazy speaking in tongues and things like that, I I gotta ask, like, how are we reaching people with that? If we're not fulfilling the Great commission with with this power, with this authority, with these gifts. Is it real? Are are those things really happening? or is it someone just, you know, making stuff up to try to like, you know, gain followers or get donations or or what have you? I I I'm not saying it's just to sound skeptical or or like, you know, critical, but like I I, you know, the way I understand, you know, the spirit being poured out on on on Pentecost and and you know, the reason why we receive power in the first place is fulfill the great commission. That's that's how I understand it. so you know like to me that's what it's all about. It's you know and if I'm not out there in the mission fields, I wouldn't expect to really see, you know, have have these very powerful gifts or show, you know, see see those kind of miracles performed if I'm not out there doing that kind of work. I don't know. And that's a whole nother topic though. That's that's a that's a that's a big topic that Pj: Yeah, yeah, I yeah, yeah. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. I I I kinda got I kinda got us off on on on something, but but getting back to Andrew Farley, man, I I really enjoyed the solo episode, man. I I I enjoyed watching his sermon and and and hearing hearing the word broke down in the way that he did. And you know, I I feel like personally I will check out some more of his his stuff, man, just to just to kind of see and maybe he does touch on some of these other other topics, you know what I mean? and and and maybe that'll answer some of these questions. But I mean ultimately it's just it it's it's crazy, man, because you know I I feel like it it would be it would be so beneficial to us as as a church body to to get back to to you know hearing and knowing and understanding it these things and and and and and having that that fresh fire Randy Dupre: Yeah. Pj: ignited in us to to want to get out there and share the gospel because it's worth hearing and and and and it makes it really so attainable. And and I think that it would be important for for the non believer also, like if they walk into this guy's church and and and heard like, hey listen, you're already forgiven. So why don't you just you know put your faith in Jesus and accept the free gift of of his grace and salvation. Randy Dupre: that's sorry, sorry to interrupt, but that's one thing I I was curious on your thoughts because I think it is pretty controversial to say that, you know, Jesus died for to forgive everyone. most people, most Christians would say no, he just died to forgive believers. Pj: Yeah, no. No, he that that's no. I mean, then then the work would not be finished. You know what I mean? It he he died for the sins of the whole world. and I think I I'm we we talked about that in a in a very earlier episode. And and yeah, and I do believe he I mean I I mean it's just yeah, I I believe it, but I I mean I I think scripture's pretty clear that he died for the sins of the world and and Randy Dupre: I yeah. And and and that's how I take it. I mean, that's not something Andrew Farley said in that episode. That's something that I said when I was kind of commenting on it. Cause when I read John 316, you know, that's how I read it. That God so loved the world, He gave his only son, and whoever believes in him won't perish but have everlasting life. And I also, in in my understanding of the gospel, it makes perfect sense that, you know, he had to just take care of sin, period, for anyone to to for anyone to have salvation. And therefore it's not Pj: Completely, yeah. Randy Dupre: you know, forgiveness of sins, which I'll be honest, man, for most of my time as a Christian, I would say at least half of the time that I've been a Christian, I would have been in that camp that said the only difference between me and a non b you know and a and a and a an unsaved person is I'm forgiven. And now I don't see it that way at all. Now I see no their their sins are forgiven too, but they will they will never reap the benefit of being forgiven if they don't believe. Pj: Yeah. Well and and I and I think it's kind of implied in what Andrew Farley said by saying once for all 'cause I mean, you know, it's like a and you see it in the characteristic through s through scripture of of of God. Like, you know, he he doesn't want anybody to perish. And and so the this message is basically look, everybody's already forgiven. Your sins are gone. God doesn't look down and see sin anymore. Thank thank you, Jesus. Literally. but but I mean we still Randy Dupre: Right. Pj: All all he ha all we have left separating us is is that free will. That's it. It it's are you going are you going to accept the gift or not? You know, your your sins are already forgiven, but like like you you said, and and that's I agree with that a hundred percent, you know, forgiveness is not what saves us. It's not, you know. Randy Dupre: That's it. And and it's like and it's like and I can't remember if we talked about this or not, but it's like I heard Wes Huff being interviewed recently, and basically, I forgot who even was interviewing him, but Wes Huff they asked him, they said, So you're telling me that a really good person who saves people's lives and is donating their time to save children in Africa is going to hell if they don't believe in Jesus, and a criminal who committed sins their whole life is going to heaven just because they believe in Jesus. And I don't, you know, and Wes Wes Huff's answer was basically like, Look, these these if they don't choose, Jesus, God is not gonna force himself. He's a gentleman, he's not gonna force himself on anyone. And and and my response to that, I would I would say to those people who don't choose God, then going to heaven would be like hell for them. So why would God force them to go there? And so so that just tells you, and you just said it, it's all about free will. It's not about whether or not you're forgiven or not, or you do the right things, or you don't, or you have the right process and ritual. It's about your free will, man. And did you choose with your free will to to seek after God and to accept him? Or did you choose to reject him? And God's not going to force himself on you and he's not going to force you to go and be with him. Pj: man, you know, another really good thing that he said that just really resonated with me whenever he was talking about the early church and he was like, you know, he's like, Man, they you know, they didn't have a a a Bible that they were going off of, you know what I mean? Everything was internal. They weren't worried about attendance like, well, I go every er they legitimately the early church legitimately had relationships with God. Like and and I think that we deviated from that and and Randy Dupre: Mm. Yes. Pj: In a way that it's again, it's like, well, we're we're checking these boxes. And and and I've seen I've seen the evidence in in people a even as close as my wife, like, you know, beings she came to know the Lord so so late in her life and and had no other really influence from the church in any way, shape or form, that I've watched her relationship with the Lord be very organic and and very untainted. Like so whenever I'm sitting here struggling with certain things cause I've been indoctrinated and I'm trying to reverse that she's just looking at me like what are you talking about? She's like, I I just love the Lord. You know what I mean? And you could see it in her. Like it's like it's and I'm like, well it my my relationship has unf unfortunately been very convoluted with a bunch of different things and and you know, requirements and just stuff, you know. Randy Dupre: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I'm glad you brought that point up because I like how Andrew Farley says, like, you know, he he calls it quiet time theology, right? And it's like those are I'm glad you brought that up because man, because I it's so easy for us to forget in 2026 that yeah, for the first few hundred years when the when the power of God was moving, I would say, you know, probably the the most, the strongest as the church was growing. Pj: Yeah, right. Strong. Yeah. Randy Dupre: They didn't they they didn't always have a church to attend, they didn't have scriptures in most cases. Like you said, if they were lucky if they had a letter or two, they didn't have this leather-bound, you know, Bible. They didn't have all the things that we take for granted today, and all the things that a lot of Christians base their closeness with God on. How do you know you're close with God? Well, because I read my Bible every day and I pray every day and I go to church every week and blah blah blah. And it's like, no, closeness with God is none of those things. Pj: Right, right. Lean on. Yeah. Randy Dupre: Closeness with God is God living in you and you being in him. And the early church didn't have none of those things, and they were probably way closer if you want to measure closeness in those terms. They, you know, in in in worldly or fleshly terms, they were probably way closer. It's kind of like when Paul said, like, if anyone has a reason to boast it's me. I born on the, you know, circumcised on the eighth day, Pharisee of Pharisees, blah, blah, blah. It's like if anyone wants to measure closeness, those guys, and they didn't do none of those things that you're bragging about. Pj: Right, right, right. Yeah, man. It it it was like I said, overall there there were some really good things that I was like, Ooh man, that's a good point. You know what I mean? That's that that's really what it's about. And and and I think like so I've had, you know, things that I've looked into and and and and stuff like that before any of this, like I feel like this this has kind of, you know, helped solidify some of it. And and you know, it it it's those things. Like I I felt like my walk with God grew exponentially whenever like I started looking at my relationship with him like like a relationship, like a legit relationship. Like, you know, almost in almost in the way that that we're referred to as as the bridegroom of Christ. You know, we like like we we're in this covenant of marriage. Like I I look at it in the same way like I look at a relationship with my wife and and I try to treat that relationship in that same way. I I'm not just thinking of about God as as some, you know Randy Dupre: Amen. Pj: big big man in the sky that that may or may not hear my prayers. I talk to him like I would talk to you, my brother. Like, hey, listen, God, you know, it's it's it's me. And I try to treat that relationship in a very, very real and visceral way of of saying like this is this is not just a a a make believe thing that makes me feel better here or here. You know, this is a real thing. This is a real relationship. And I'm sorry, go ahead. Randy Dupre: Yeah. I I no, I mean, I think that's great, man. I think that's a hundred percent the right way to look at it. And it humanizes it and it makes it so much more real when you look at it that way. You know, like when Andrew Farley was talking about how we could grieve the Holy Spirit, like to me, I when I think about it, I think about it in relationship to you know, my wife and being married, and I also think about it in relationship to my kids and being a parent. And and I think about that and I think like, what is how can that be true? God Pj: yeah. Randy Dupre: Hates sin. He hates it so much that he killed his own son. And then I think about it as a parent and I think, well, man, like if if me and my son were planning his future and we sat down and we planned, you know what? He's going to graduate high school. As soon as he graduates high school, he's going to go directly to college for four years. He's going to get this certain degree. And then he gets out and he's going to go and we set this plan and we have this great future. And then he decides, you know what? I want to take a year and just do nothing. And then he says, after doing nothing, I'm I'm good with just working at a convenience store. And and like, yeah, I'm not gonna I'm I'm I'm just like God. I might be grieved. I might be like grieved, like man, we had this great plan and this great, but I'm not gonna be mad at him, I'm not gonna be angry about it. It's your life, but it's your future. Like you, it's that's how I'm gonna feel as a parent. I'm not yeah, that's how I'm gonna feel as a parent. Is that's what if that's what you chose now, even though I thought we had a good plan, even though we had this target and you just missed the mark, which is what sin means, I'm not gonna be. Pj: Your free will. It's your free will. Yeah. Randy Dupre: Angry and wrathful to you because ultimately it's your life, bud. But I'm gonna be grieved because I thought you had a really good plan and future ahead of you, and now you chose something different. And it and you could apply that to choosing a spouse, a career, you know, where you're gonna live, a lot of different things. Like as a parent, you might be grieved if your child makes a choice that you disagree with, but that doesn't make you angry with them. That doesn't mean you're gonna break their relationship unless maybe you got some issues, you know what I mean? Because maybe they married the wrong. Pj: Yeah. You don't love any less? Randy Dupre: Yeah, you're not gonna love them any less. It doesn't make you no longer their parents, right? Like Pj: You don't love any less? Yeah, you know. Right. Randy Dupre: once I got that in my head that, like, look, I am a child of God now and and he is my father, and there's nothing I could do that's gonna make him no longer be my father. And I thought about it in the same terms as my own kids that yeah, there's nothing they could ever do. I will be their father for the rest of our existence, and there's nothing that could change that. That things really started to change in my heart when I started thinking about it that way. Pj: Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, and and that was like you said, it was a burden that was lifted and and it it it did make it it made the gospel, you know, true and felt like good news. And and and like I said, there are some some questions that I still have because, you know, unfortunately it it feels like this is a message that's not very not out there very much and it's not very far reaching, unfortunately, and and I wish it was. And and so what happens is is, you know, you you get these little these little drops of of hearing this and it's and then it just it really it just lifts your spirits and then, you know, you hear things that that do align with it somewhat, but then slowly but surely you get pulled back into this old doctrine w where you're getting taught messages that are directly tied to the old covenant and then there you are feeling like, you know, you're you're beat down and bound again. And so, you know, it's just it's it's wild, man. But but yeah, I I mean I It like I said, really look really like the episode. Really, you know, I I will check this guy out, man. And and yeah, man, I I encourage anybody listening to do the same. You know, and if you've never heard this, like spend some time with it. It it's it's sometimes it it it is it it's a a culture shock, I guess if you wanna say as a Christian, you're just like, wait a minute, this this sounds like almost you know, this is so different. Randy Dupre: Yeah. Well, here's what I would recommend for you, my brother, and anyone else who may be interested is download the TGM app. It looks like that. It's also blue and white, just like the other app. and it stands for the grace message. You can search the grace message on your app store and basically I would s recommend to that anyone who has any interest who thinks anything that we have to say is interesting, download it and listen to the the whole series on Hebrews. So he's on Hebrews chapter eight. That's what we just listened to this Sunday. But if you go on the app, so I scream, you know, I scream the whole sermon, the whole service on Sundays, but they put just the messages on the app. So you could literally go through the app and listen to the 35-40 minute message in, you know, in the series and and listen as he covers all eight chapters. And there's some This one was this one was the best one so far, which is why I I felt like I had to talk about it. But there are some other really, really good ones, especially when you start to bring up verses like, you know, those who have tasted and have rejected. And you're like, wait a second, is it talking about Christians? Like these people who have have been saved and now they're rejecting the gospel. You gotta hear the new covenant view on that. It's it's really good stuff. Pj: Yeah. And and and I would just wanna add this, just like anything else or anybody else, you know, we would encourage you not only to check it out, but you know, get in your Bible behind it, you know, which you know, I from from this one sermon I I did see that he shared the Bible verses there, which I I do like. but yeah, get in your Bible behind pray about it. but I mean ultimately, man, it's I I mean I I've I've done so myself with a lot of the this thing. th these kind of messages and and you know I that's how I landed here. That that's kind of been what what got me on this this journey that I'm walking right now. and it's been better. You know what I mean? And don't get me wrong, there are still some questions out there there that I I would like cleared up. But I mean ultimately, man, my my my w walk my burden does feel you know, lighter. The the you know, it it's you know it it's It's been it it really has been a blessing to my walk hearing these things because it was a lot of stuff that I was searching for and and struggling with and and to be honest, I've had multiple conversations with other people who were struggling with the same things of of just feeling like, man, like I want I just want to do the right things and I just don't feel it like I'm getting it right and and they just feel so bogged down and I'm like you're you're missing the love and peace that Jesus wants you to experience, you know what I mean? You're and that's that it's sad. So but but yeah. Randy Dupre: Awesome. Yep. Yep. Pj: Good stuff, brother. Randy Dupre: All right, man. Well, hey, I think that does it for this episode of The Walk Talk. What you think? All right. Well, hey, I just want to remind everybody out there, like, subscribe, follow the show. And before you go, make sure to let us know what you think in the comments down below. God bless. Pj: Yes, sir. God bless.