Latest / Startup Dad / The Founder Habit That Backfires At Home | Harry Roegiers (Dad of 3, Founder of Stuntpony)

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The Founder Habit That Backfires At Home | Harry Roegiers (Dad of 3, Founder of Stuntpony) · Startup Dad

• [00:00:00] Harry Roegiers: what I've, I've learned along the way, um, you come home and then you're gonna see that your, either your, your partner or your kid comes with a problem, and that I of stayed in this founder mode. Okay, let's, let's analyze the thing, let's fix it so we can move ahead. And that's not always the experience that family mem- members are looking for. Sometimes they just wanna have somebody who listens them out, hears them out, and they will solve it themselves. [00:00:29] Adam Fishman: Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. What if the moment you proposed to your partner was also the same moment you realized the universe decided your family plan for you? [00:00:49] Adam Fishman: Today, I'm joined by Harry Roegiers, founder of a stealth AI sales coaching startup and former growth architect. Harry is a Belgian-born entrepreneur, husband to Hannelore, and dad to three kids. His journey into fatherhood started with a surprise pregnancy just days after a Paris proposal, and that single unexpected twist set the tone for a parenting philosophy built around adaptability, emotional openness, and long-term thinking. [00:01:18] Adam Fishman: Today, we talked about the mind-body connection and what Harry has learned that taught him our minds have far more control over our bodies than we realize. The tension between founder mode Harry and dad mode Harry, and why the fix-it reflex that makes you a great leader can quietly damage your relationships at home. [00:01:36] Adam Fishman: The concept of being a good ancestor and what it means to make decisions today with your great-grandchildren in mind. The deliberate choice to break generational patterns around emotional communication and what Harry's doing differently with his own kids. And navigating the uncertainty of a child's neurodiversity and learning to sit with the unknown instead of rushing to resolve it. [00:01:57] Adam Fishman: If you like what you hear, please subscribe to Startup Dad on YouTube or Spotify so you never miss an episode. You'll find it everywhere you get your podcasts. I hope you enjoy today's conversation with Harry Roegiers. [00:02:10] Adam Fishman: Welcome Harry Roegiers to "Startup Dad." Uh, Harry, it's my absolute pleasure having you here today, so thank you for joining me [00:02:18] Harry Roegiers: Thank you for the invitation. Love being here, Adam [00:02:20] Adam Fishman: of course, because I am a dumb American, I completely butchered the pronunciation of your name. You told me how to pronounce it. There's literally no way that I can make those mouth noises in, in my life. So please, for my audience's sake, could you pronounce your name the appropriate way? [00:02:36] Harry Roegiers: Well, first of all, like, don't feel ashamed because even I as a little guy in class had trouble pronouncing my last name. So after many years of practice, it's Ruchirs. [00:02:48] Adam Fishman: Okay. Okay. So everyone can try to do that in front of the mirror like five times at home while they're listening to this, but I feel I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't allow you to pronounce your name. and of course, you are Belgian, and we are fresh off of a defeat of the US, uh, World Cup team at the hand of the Belgians, so congratulations on that. [00:03:09] Adam Fishman: Well, a well-deserved win. and, uh, I enjoyed watching that game despite how painful it was to be an American in that moment, so [00:03:17] Harry Roegiers: Yeah, f- [00:03:18] Adam Fishman: you... [00:03:18] Harry Roegiers: um, again, I am sorry. For us it was very good moments, uh, that, you know, after being butchered in, in many US sports where we're not good at, to, to at least have this still as one of the things that we're good at. [00:03:32] Adam Fishman: Yes. Well, c- congratulations on an exceptional run in the, in the, in the World Cup. So, all right. Well, hey, let's get into it. Um, so your wife's name is Hannelore, uh, and you, the two of you got together, you proposed to her, and like a week later, the two of you got some life-changing news that wasn't in the original plan. [00:03:56] Adam Fishman: So tell me that story. [00:03:58] Harry Roegiers: Yes. So there's actually a little bit more to that story. Uh, I think when I met my, my dear, partner Hannelore, we were partying a lot. We were, we were in our, in our 20s, [00:04:08] Adam Fishman: As one does, yes, yes [00:04:11] Harry Roegiers: right? And, you know, th- there was a point where we did feel like, okay, this, this partying is getting a little bit too much, and it's actually taking too much of our space in life. So I think we, we're ready. We're ready to, to, to leave the party scene and move over to something more, uh, I would say, yeah, adult-like, right? so we did that. Uh, we had to sort of reinvent our lives. And then, you know, the first couple of Saturdays you're hiking in the woods and wondering like, "Hey, all my friends are partying right now. [00:04:42] Harry Roegiers: What, what are we doing in these woods?" You get used to that. We got used to that. We loved it. And at that moment, we, we-- I felt like, hey, we're ready for the, the next step. So, I took her for a weekend to Paris as, as one does, to propose to her. And when I proposed, I literally said, "Okay, I'm ready for the next step. [00:05:04] Harry Roegiers: If that's now marriage or having kids first, I'm good with both options." And she said, "Okay, fantastic, great." She said yes, and it was around We were working quite hard at the time, so we said like, "Okay, let's discuss during our Christmas break how we're gonna do it," etc. But not a week later, she told me, "Hey Harry, I'm pregnant." [00:05:29] Adam Fishman: Oh no [00:05:30] Harry Roegiers: so we didn't have to have the discussion. It was just there, which was kind of a miracle because she, she was still taking contraceptive. she tends to be forgetful, but she had been forgetful for the last 10 years in her life and never got pregnant. So at-- did make me realize, like, there's still a certain power in our bodies, a, a sort of suggestive power that you know if there's a possibility, right? [00:05:54] Harry Roegiers: It-- Things can just biologically happen. [00:05:58] Adam Fishman: Yep, [00:05:58] Harry Roegiers: At [00:05:58] Adam Fishman: yep. [00:05:59] Harry Roegiers: that's my version of the story. [00:06:00] Adam Fishman: so what was that week like between she says yes and then comes back to you and is like, "Hey, we're gonna have a kid," and you're like, "W- wait, what? I'm in my 20s." like, going through your head in that moment? [00:06:17] Harry Roegiers: Honestly, it was-- The, the first feeling I had was a slight relief and slight excitement [00:06:24] Harry Roegiers: because I was 29 at the time, so end of my 20s. So I kinda did feel like I'm, I'm getting ready for it, [00:06:32] Harry Roegiers: but still yeah [00:06:34] Harry Roegiers: still pu- you know, pushing that button and saying, "Hey, this is the end of my absolute freedom," is still a hard thing to do, I think especially for a lot of dads out here. [00:06:43] Harry Roegiers: So [00:06:43] Harry Roegiers: the fact that the the, the, the decision was taken for me was like, "Ah, good." It, it was like, know, you, you, you wanna go off a big, big slide, and there's your big brother who gives you the little push you need Yeah. to, Yeah. [00:06:55] Harry Roegiers: water slide. So it was, it was all good, to be fair. [00:06:58] Adam Fishman: so you told me that this experience, and I'm gonna quote your words back to you here, "It made me believe how strongly our mind masters our body." That's like a pretty deep, big philosophical takeaway from a, from a biological, uh, event. Is that, has that sort of belief continued, in your, uh, life? [00:07:17] Harry Roegiers: 100%. A-actually, I think it, it originates from before that. Um, since I was a lot in nightlife, I, I used to organize a lot of parties. I used to, to DJ a lot. and at some point I started suffering from, uh, tinnitus, [00:07:30] Adam Fishman: Oh, yeah. Echoing. [00:07:32] Harry Roegiers: yeah, [00:07:33] Adam Fishman: Yeah [00:07:34] Harry Roegiers: that just never disappears. and then the first thing you do is you go to all sort of doctors to, to get rid of the cause and get rid of the problem, which is virtually impossible. [00:07:43] Harry Roegiers: But the real cure to that is to actually control your mind and give a,a good signification to that sound. "Hey, that sound is not annoying. Hey, that sound is actually a pretty sound. Hey, that sound is just part of my life." And just accepting it makes it disappear. like the first time said, "Ah, okay, our mind can actually control of our body." [00:08:06] Harry Roegiers: And still today, if I concentrate well, I can still hear it's there, but of the time it's just, it's just gone [00:08:12] Adam Fishman: okay, so part of your job is to build forecasting models for a living, right? Like, you, you think about forecasting and, company growth and projections and things like that. Your family, on the other hand, started with kind of a forecasting miss. [00:08:31] Harry Roegiers: We might find a parallel with some of my [00:08:33] Adam Fishman: Yeah. So, so what did that teach you about plan- like, how did that change your, your thoughts on like, uh, the ability to forecast, before you'd even, like, changed a single diaper? And maybe this is a weird question, but I- I'm just kind of curious if that had a- an effect on your professional life. [00:08:52] Harry Roegiers: I, I like this question. I haven't really given this much, much thought, to be honest. But, I think in life we need to plan, right? But we-- I think we also learn that things rarely go to plan even when you plan. [00:09:05] Adam Fishman: Yep [00:09:06] Harry Roegiers: so it, it takes a little bit of a, a, um, a mindfulness skill to plan ahead, but the moment that you see these changes happening, okay, just, just, just adapt the plan along the way. I think, I think that's a, a good way to go through life to keep oneself sane, I would say [00:09:21] Adam Fishman: in our prep for this show, you told me this thing we're gonna come back to later about joy being an obligation of parenting or of life. so I wanna hold on to that, listeners. We're gonna come back to that in a, in a little bit. But before that, so you told me that there was this sort of distinction that you had to learn, which was there's founder Harry who fixes things and gets things moving and, you know, high, drive, right? [00:09:50] Adam Fishman: And then there's dad Harry. And dad Harry sometimes needs to just listen, not resolve everything right then and there. So can you kind of like define those two personas, uh, for me? [00:10:02] Harry Roegiers: Absolutely. Yeah, I think as a, as a startup founder and, and I think a lot of people who have, you know, who are leading a team, you're constantly in this sort of battle of, hey, I need to push things forward, need to solve things, solve the things. You need to be very effective with your time at, at solving things and pushing things forward, right? and you're doing that, you know, 8 10 hours a day, and then you suddenly come home. and what I've, I've learned along the way, um, you come home and then you're gonna see that your, either your, your partner or your kid comes with a problem, and that I of stayed in this founder mode. Okay, let's, let's analyze the thing, let's fix it so we can move ahead. And that's not always the experience that family mem- members are looking for. Sometimes they just wanna have somebody who listens them out, hears them out, and they will solve it themselves. and that's a very different way to, to behave. So having a realization like, hey, I'm home now, stop being manager Harry or entrepreneur Harry, just be be there, give these people the best experience that they need at this particular moment, uh, was definitely for me a learning along the way. [00:11:16] Adam Fishman: [00:11:16] Harry Roegiers: I think things have been going much, much smoother with my partner since I learned [00:11:20] Adam Fishman: That's, that's, that's good. I mean, honestly, it's a lesson I'm still learning, right? Like, and I-- my kids are older and I've been married longer than you have. So, is there a specific moment that you can recall where this, like, fix-it reflex that you had in, in work Harry or manager Harry kind of blew up in your face at home? [00:11:38] Harry Roegiers: about two years ago, my partner and I, we, we went a little bit through a rough relationship patch. like every, every big relationship has at some point, right? You, you need to reinvent yourself as a [00:11:48] Adam Fishman: Sure [00:11:50] Harry Roegiers: And I think this is when a lot of the things that come under pressure. And it had gone probably unnoticed all the years I was doing that mistake before as something, hey, this is just Har- something that Harry does and it's okay. But then suddenly when everything's under pressure, really where you're starting to feel those things that aren't working really anymore. [00:12:12] Harry Roegiers: Um, that was, that was I think the moment I felt like, okay, this is-- There were plenty of things we needed to change, but that was, that was definitely one of them. Giving the people around me the time to vent, to share, to, [00:12:27] Adam Fishman: And I assume that comes with both your partner and your kids too, right? Yeah. when you think about like Manager Harry kind of walks through the door at home and needs to switch modes into Dad Harry, is there a trigger or a ritual that helps you kind of change, persona? Uh, do you have to consciously do that or is there something that you have set up that kind of just switches, switches that for you? [00:12:54] Adam Fishman: Or do you still get it wrong, I guess too? [00:12:56] Harry Roegiers: I think it is the last one, and, and you just actually asking the question made me realize, like I need a, I need a ritual. Even if it's a three-minute ritual, I don't know, go downstairs and, and, and wash your hands and take five minutes for yourself before go and say hello to the family. I mean, these... I think I need a little thing to, to really help me transition. [00:13:17] Adam Fishman: which Harry does your wife say shows up too, too often? Does she ever ask you to switch modes still? Like, "Hey, you're, y- y- your work Harry, y- you need to just be dad Harry." [00:13:29] Harry Roegiers: she's not gonna literally say it, but I'm gonna see, I'm gonna notice that, that the way, the way she reacts to [00:13:35] Adam Fishman: The, the look. [00:13:37] Harry Roegiers: exactly. And that's a signal, ah, no, Harry, you're doing it wrong. [00:13:41] Adam Fishman: Yeah. So that's your ritual. That's your trigger is like, "Uh-oh, I'm getting the death stare from my wife." Okay. I'm gonna come back to this also later in, in the show. On your LinkedIn profile it says stealth startup, and so I have many questions about that, but I'm gonna save those for the end after we go deep into parenting. [00:13:59] Adam Fishman: I wanna talk about generational shift, the gap between how we're brought up and how we bring up our kids. what would you say is the single biggest difference between your childhood and the one that your three kids... And your three kids are Gustav, Lou, and Eddie. what's the biggest difference between your, your childhood and the one that they're getting? [00:14:19] Harry Roegiers: Uh, I think, I think there's a big generational shift happening right now. Um, at least to the way I experience it, uh, I think it's the our ability to communicate emotionally father and child or, or mom and child. Um, I think the way I, I, I was brought up in a very warm nest. I had everything I needed, fantastic parents, people didn't really talk about their emotions openly, Um, used to be a bit ta- taboo. What I see with my generation and a lot of friends is that they really had to analyze that and, and really ask themselves the question, "Why was I brought up like this?" And it's not necessarily the same way I wanna bring up my kids. Um, this is not a story for me, but I had one of my best friends, they, they had like a very, uh, traumatic experience in their family. [00:15:11] Harry Roegiers: One of their, uh, uncles, uh, committed suicide. He was also the business partner of the father. There was a lot of financial backlash from that. when that happens, it was a big family shock, but there was like no emotional conversation between parents and child about this. So the child has to like kind of make up their own story about that. and that's, it- it's a thing I've been seeing with a lot of families of our parents' generation. [00:15:38] Adam Fishman: If you were to flip this around, is there something that your parents in particular, like deliberately got right that you decided, "I, I want to do this as a dad. I'm going to keep this"? [00:15:51] Harry Roegiers: Freedom to let your kids make mistakes. That is, that is definitely a big one. Like, don't, don't be overprotective. promote your kids making mistakes. Uh, my father was excellent at that. he supported me a lot in my, I think, entrepreneursh- entrepreneurial I would say adventures. one of the, the things I'm still grateful to him, uh, till today is lived on the, on the countryside, so we had a, a, an, a barn, where when I was 18, I asked him like, "Hey, hey, Dad, can, can I organize a, an 18th birthday party?" And he was like, "Yeah, of course. Like, have some friends. Happy to pay for it." and then one year we had a fantastic party. [00:16:33] Harry Roegiers: We had, like, 100 people over. [00:16:35] Adam Fishman: Wow [00:16:36] Harry Roegiers: the year after, I asked him again, "Hey, it's my 19th birthday coming up. Can I organize a party again?" He said, "I paid that for you for your 18, but I'm not gonna pay this for every year. So why don't you organize it, but you find a way for the party to pay itself?" And okay, so I said, "Okay, if I start asking 10 euros for everybody who comes." [00:16:58] Harry Roegiers: And, and then year two we had 200 people, and then year three we had 400, and then, you know, by year seven we had 2,000 people in [00:17:07] Adam Fishman: thing you know you're a club promoter. [00:17:10] Harry Roegiers: the... Exactly. Exactly. [00:17:11] Harry Roegiers: it's not a given thing for parents to let kids organize parties for 2,000 people in, in, in the, the fields and the barn next to their house. [00:17:19] Harry Roegiers: Um, but they were very, very open to that. Y- And, and that's something I'm, I'm super grateful of [00:17:25] Adam Fishman: That's great. What do you think, this is a little bit of a spicier question for you, but what do you think that your parents' generation got right that our generation of parents is maybe getting wrong or needs to kind of revisit, uh, the past a bit? [00:17:43] Harry Roegiers: I think we've, we've got an extra challenge that our parents had less. Um, I think with the, the coming of social media, we, we have become as human beings very short-term minded, much more than when you and I were brought up pre-internet age. And, and I was sort of brought mid, mid-internet age. The moment internet came up, gratification became so, such a big part of our lives, and I think that's something that we will have to be extra careful to foster this mentality of, hey, know instant gratification is a thing, but let's, let's look over the next 50 years. Let's look, look over the next 100 years. [00:18:29] Harry Roegiers: Like almost, I'm not gonna promote, I would say the, the Chinese government too much, but that is one thing that I think they do right. They really plan 100 years ahead, which I think is, is still a fantastic thing to do. I think that's something that, uh, our generation's gonna need more. [00:18:43] Adam Fishman: taking a longer view on things. We're so very short, you know, quick, quick feedback cycle motivated. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna come back to this later, uh, because your, your son Gustav has done some pretty cool things at the age of eight, things that he's built and stuff like that with technology. But in order to draw that parallel, I wanna ask you, when you were his age, what was the most impressive thing that you built at age eight? [00:19:11] Harry Roegiers: Wow. Oh, now you're taking me back. we lived on the countryside, right? So that would probably be the self-made bunker that we made out of straw [00:19:23] Adam Fishman: Okay [00:19:24] Harry Roegiers: chase away the German soldiers who were about to invade our country. I [00:19:30] Adam Fishman: Oh boy [00:19:30] Harry Roegiers: was, that, that was the game at that time. [00:19:33] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:19:33] Harry Roegiers: lot of camps. [00:19:34] Harry Roegiers: Yeah. [00:19:34] Adam Fishman: Okay. All right. So just keep that in mind 'cause we're gonna do a compare and contrast later. Um, I want to talk about this book that you mentioned to me. Um, there's a book called "The Good Ancestor," which talks about, trying to develop a reflex for seeing the impact of our actions over a longer period ti- of time. [00:19:53] Adam Fishman: So this sort of gets to what you were just saying about things we can learn. and reflexes are trained. How do you-- This is a little tongue-in-cheek question here, but how do you train a 30-year time horizon into yourself when you're in the middle of a kid having a meltdown over not wanting to eat some broccoli or something like that? [00:20:14] Harry Roegiers: Yeah. [00:20:15] Adam Fishman: How do you take the long view in that moment? [00:20:18] Harry Roegiers: I think it's still something that I struggle with, with every day, right? But I think it starts with, with some of the, would say, more stuff and, and rituals such as, investing, right? [00:20:30] Harry Roegiers: you know, it's, in Belgium it's a tradition that from your parents and your grandfather or your godfather, every year around Christmas you're gonna receive a little envelope of money. [00:20:40] Harry Roegiers: And what did people used to do? Okay, let's put it on a bank account. Very typical Belgium, right? [00:20:44] Harry Roegiers: and then it just sits there getting eaten by inflation year over year. while it's, it's common knowledge that, hey, if you invest early enough and you let this compound over years, you can actually, you know, grow a really nice sum of money, right? So I think that that is one of the, you know, the more practical things that we s- we try to do. I would say an- another more symbolical thing is, unfortunately my, my mom passed away a couple of, couple of years before, before COVID. and in, you know, the, her house on the countryside, there was this big oak, uh, oak tree that she loved so much. [00:21:23] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:21:24] Harry Roegiers: "Okay, let's, let's take, you know, a couple of these acorns and let's plant those so that in 50 years we have a couple of other really beautiful oak trees," right? [00:21:36] Harry Roegiers: these little things like that, it, it just helps symbolically. I think the really hard part is the little practical things in, in your everyday life. Like, okay, kids wa- wants candy, but now is not the time for candy. you going for the instant gratification, or are you going, are you biting through the tough moment of saying no, seeing tears, and, you know, ultimately them a better health and eating habits, [00:22:04] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Yeah, 'cause you know where the eventual outcome is going. But there's gonna be a lot of pain to get to that outcome. So yeah. The can- that candy example is a, is a perfect one. I mean, my son loves candy, so he wants it a way, he can't have ice cream all the time. So, there's another topic in that book, um, "The Good Ancestor," uh, which is cathedral thinking. [00:22:29] Adam Fishman: I guess two things for you on that. If you recall, can you, can you tell us what cathedral thinking is? And then do you think parenting is kind of a form of that in, in some way? [00:22:39] Harry Roegiers: Okay. Let's, let's, let's freshen up my memory first. So when I think about cathedral thinking, and I'm not sure that's, that's how they meant it in the book, is when you think about a cathedral, start something and it's never gonna be built in your lifetime, right? It's something that the second or third generation is gonna, is [00:22:56] Adam Fishman: Yeah [00:22:57] Harry Roegiers: finish. I don't think we've got anything like that in our family, to be fair [00:23:01] Adam Fishman: Well, I, I guess my question around parenting being a form of that is one of the things that comes up a lot in this show and in my conversations is that it's really hard to know if you did a good job as a parent because the time horizon on the success of your kids may be way after you're gone from the planet, right? [00:23:24] Adam Fishman: Because it's generational. Did they do a good job raising their family? Did they do a good job as a good steward of, of, you know, the world or whatever? and so it-- When you told me about cathedral thinking, and I haven't read "The Good Ancestor," but now I'm very curious. I was kind of wondering, like, is it one of those things that you'll never really see the end outcome of your kids and whether or not they're successful? [00:23:49] Adam Fishman: And so you never really know if you did a good job as the architect of that cathedral that is your, your children. [00:23:55] Harry Roegiers: Ooh, [00:23:56] Adam Fishman: That's a deep, that's a deep cut maybe. Yeah [00:23:59] Harry Roegiers: like where this is going. I've never really thought of it like that, but you're 100% right. You're 100% right. There's quite a bit that you are not gonna, [00:24:06] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:24:06] Harry Roegiers: not gonna see in your lifetime. [00:24:08] Adam Fishman: Yeah. I mean, if you, even if you take the example that your, you know, your mom passed away, uh, before COVID a few years before. So that was what? Six, eight years ago maybe. that was before Gustav, right around the time that Gustav was born. So she didn't get to see you really as a dad, right? [00:24:26] Harry Roegiers: No. little bit. [00:24:28] Adam Fishman: yeah [00:24:29] Harry Roegiers: she literally, she, she passed away like two, two, literally like two months before [00:24:33] Adam Fishman: Oh, so she saw a little bit. Yeah [00:24:36] Harry Roegiers: she saw, she saw Gustav and, um, but we were pregnant with our second, with Lou. [00:24:42] Harry Roegiers: and that is I think still today one of the hardest thing about losing a, a parent. [00:24:48] Adam Fishman: うーん。 [00:24:49] Harry Roegiers: My mom lived a happy life. [00:24:51] Harry Roegiers: She ended up being 63, which I think is too young to pass, but she lived a full and rich life. And even be- be- right before she got cancer, she admitted like, "My life is already successful. Everything I get now is bonus." [00:25:05] Adam Fishman: Wow [00:25:06] Harry Roegiers: So when she passed, you go through went through a year or two of grievance and then it's like, okay, done, [00:25:16] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:25:17] Harry Roegiers: on. [00:25:17] Adam Fishman: Yeah [00:25:18] Harry Roegiers: But the one moment that I still have a hard time today is the fact that she's not around to see the grandkids grow up. that still is a, a big miss, I would say. [00:25:29] Adam Fishman: Uh, well, thanks for sharing that. I'm sure that's a hard thing to share. So, I am curious about when we think about this sort of long-term thinking, is there a parenting decision or a challenge that changed for you because you zoomed out and took a longer-term view of things? Because you did the opposite of short-term Harry, you sort of did long-term Harry [00:25:55] Harry Roegiers: Yeah. I would say definitely the, the choice of the house that we b- we live in. [00:26:00] Adam Fishman: Okay [00:26:01] Harry Roegiers: the biggest thing. you know, now, now as a startup founder, I, know, t- things are financially a little bit more, more difficult. But, but for 10 years I was a, I was a freelance consultant, so there was plenty of room to buy a bigger house with a bigger garden, et cetera. But I think there was also always this conscious decision of, hey, let's save now, invest that money somewhere that, [00:26:21] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:26:22] Harry Roegiers: you know, it starts to compound over the years and, and, and we can enjoy a little bit more towards the end of our life or, make sure we have it large enough when, you know, you need to start paying, um, for college. [00:26:33] Harry Roegiers: Well, in Europe, college doesn't, isn't expensive, the housing is, right? [00:26:38] Adam Fishman: Yep, yep [00:26:39] Harry Roegiers: so, so yeah. So no, definitely the your feet on the brake on the short term. [00:26:44] Adam Fishman: So maybe living below your means a little bit, not taking on too much because the future you knew, "I might not be in this financial situation in the future, so let's pump the brakes on that a little bit." Okay. you know, you s- have spent years inside an industry that runs on quarters, right? [00:27:03] Adam Fishman: Like finance and growth, at least quarters. How are we doing this quarter? How are we doing next quarter? Like, and you build models as part of your job that's supposed to predict the next 12, months of time. which thing sort of came first for you? Do you think that work taught you to think a little bit more long term or was it really becoming a dad that helped you see that, take the long term view on, on things or was it something else, some other event in your life? [00:27:31] Harry Roegiers: I would say it's definitely number two, becoming a dad, right? I think it's a, feeling that, that many of us can share. Like the moment your first one is born, you see the world through completely different eyes, right? Um, suddenly that one quarter who's, you know, who used to be your life and death before the, the, the birth of a child, suddenly you see like, okay, well this is just a thing, right? got a, I've got a little baby here that I wanna give all my love and all my attention to have a fantastic life. You know, that, that's the thing that ultimately really matters and, and, and does help you to, to, to get sort of that long, more long-term view rather than the, the quarter-to-quarter, uh, view I would say [00:28:15] Adam Fishman: so your wife, Hannelore, she spends her professional days with kids who just sort of landed in a new country. She teaches immigrants, as part of her job. what has her work taught you about your own family and what actually matters when you're building and developing that family? [00:28:37] Harry Roegiers: I think the, the thing I'm seeing is ultimately we all wanna make an impact, right? Uh, that's how most professionals live their life. And there's, there's two types of impact. Rational There's impact and there's emotional impact. And seeing, like, both kind of teachers but in a, in a very different way. [00:29:02] Harry Roegiers: I'm gonna be more in, you know, SaaS companies and helping sales teams achieve better. Very rational, right? Although, I mean, there's, 'cause there's an emotional component there, but ultimately it's the numbers that need to go up, right? And because you live in that, work in that space, you know, there's the, I would say the, the, the pay is good, the, the, the numbers are big, there's room for investments, et cetera. [00:29:27] Harry Roegiers: And then suddenly you see this whole other world that, where my wife works, there's not a lot of means, right? [00:29:35] Adam Fishman: Yeah [00:29:36] Harry Roegiers: gets funded by the state, but it's very limited. Um, they don't have money to invest in iPads and all that stuff. But emotional impact you see there, like don't wanna even say 10x, it's 100x of the stuff that I'm doing. It-- You have to imagine there's these people that often from the Middle East all the way to Europe, sometimes with a baby, [00:30:02] Adam Fishman: Wow [00:30:03] Harry Roegiers: parts by boats. It's, like they've gone through hell to escape an earlier hell that they wanted to escape, and then they arrive there and, you see people like my wife giving them so much love and help and attention just to make them feel welcome, help them to, you know, get to a point where they feel, I would say, socially defendable in our country and, and, and are actually able to get their first job and everything. I mean, that, is really something to be, to be proud of, I think. [00:30:38] Adam Fishman: All right. Well, let's hold on to that one. I wanna talk about some of the contrarian house rules that you have. So you told me about three of them, and then we're gonna go through them one at a time. Rule number one, and this one is, uh, I can't wait. teaching your kids how to swear is okay, and I quote, "To some extent." [00:30:57] Adam Fishman: So what is the extent? [00:31:00] Harry Roegiers: I think it's knowing when you can swear, when you [00:31:04] Adam Fishman: Okay. Like what situation is okay to be in or like who you're around or something like that? [00:31:09] Harry Roegiers: exactly. I think there's, there's, there's, um, there's a part of, of context and there's a part of frequency, right? If you do it all the time, at some point it's, you know, it loses a bit of class, let's put it that way. [00:31:20] Adam Fishman: Uh-huh [00:31:21] Harry Roegiers: But, when we were educating our kids, we used to always say like, "Don't swear, don't swear." [00:31:27] Harry Roegiers: Or when we say, we used to say ships instead of shits, for example, you know, stuff, stuff like that. [00:31:32] Harry Roegiers: and we would tell you, "You can't say, you can't say that word, you can't say the F word," etc. But we cau- we caught ourselves doing it half of the time. We were like, [00:31:41] Adam Fishman: Hmm [00:31:43] Harry Roegiers: I don't think there's anything wrong if you wanna express something with passion to drop a swear word." [00:31:50] Adam Fishman: Okay [00:31:50] Harry Roegiers: but, but I would say don't overdo it, otherwise it's- [00:31:55] Adam Fishman: Right. So you're married to a teacher for, current purposes. Uh, has your school ever called home about the swearing, and how does Hannelore feel about the swearing curriculum in your household? [00:32:09] Harry Roegiers: Ah, okay. Question number one. No, we have not gotten any complaints from school [00:32:15] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:32:16] Harry Roegiers: I do hope-- [00:32:17] Adam Fishman: For now. [00:32:18] Harry Roegiers: For now. hope we've, we've educated them well enough to know that th-this is not something you do in front of your teacher, right? [00:32:25] Adam Fishman: Sure, sure, sure. There's a... Yes, yes [00:32:28] Harry Roegiers: but, uh, no, n-n-not for now. And the second question was? [00:32:33] Adam Fishman: How does Hannelore feel about this? Is she, is she on, on the same team with the, the co-signing of the swearing curriculum? [00:32:40] Harry Roegiers: I, I'm not sure. I'm not sure to be honest. [00:32:43] Adam Fishman: Okay. I'll go [00:32:44] Harry Roegiers: in my defense, like she's gonna, she's gonna occasionally sh- swear as well. [00:32:50] Adam Fishman: sure. Yeah [00:32:51] Harry Roegiers: think if you occasionally swear, you got, you, you got to allow your kids to do that, but [00:32:54] Adam Fishman: Okay. Uh, all right, rule number two, and I quote, this is a direct quote from you: "Running around naked is totally fine." explain yourself. Is this also setting dependent? Like, uh, do we care where they're running around naked? [00:33:09] Harry Roegiers: Very much. [00:33:10] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:33:11] Harry Roegiers: so. there's two reasons for that. I think, of course, one's we're, we're Europeans, which, which typically are more comfortable with that than, than I would say people in the US. That's one thing. But, but also the, I think the second big part, um, because I have most of our f- for- our friends find that weird or uncomfortable. But I grew up with only brothers. We were four brothers. So there was not a notion of naked shame. [00:33:36] Harry Roegiers: That just didn't exist how I grew up. So, like, when we're at home, like we, like I don't care if my-- If you wanna run around naked, you just, you just go. Right. [00:33:49] Adam Fishman: Boys and girls. 'Cause you've got two daughters. Two, two of your kids, two of the three. Okay. Oh, right [00:33:55] Harry Roegiers: The, the, of course, like once you get at a certain age that I think that, that, that would become weird. but now our youngest is three and a half. [00:34:04] Adam Fishman: Oh, that's... [00:34:05] Harry Roegiers: swimming pool, she's [00:34:06] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:34:07] Harry Roegiers: naked. And occasionally, like very occasionally, you get like a little bit of a weird look from your friends. [00:34:13] Harry Roegiers: Like, "Hey, your daughter's... on, she's three. Let her, [00:34:16] Adam Fishman: Right. [00:34:16] Harry Roegiers: her, let her run naked." [00:34:17] Harry Roegiers: my brothers and I, we also, we, we've cultivated this tradition where every few years when we get together and we're on a trip somewhere, will always take a moment for a naked picture of us four. And it's either top of a, top of a mountain with our ski gear, or it's gonna be under an Asian waterfall somewhere. I don't know. Th- th- those are the good memories that we're always, we're always gonna laugh about. [00:34:45] Adam Fishman: All right. I have to ask you about the top of the mountain. So is this like we're wearing our, our ski boots and our skis and then nothing else? Oh, I love, I love this. I love this. That-- This is now gonna be the, um, the, uh, the episode artwork for this show has to be that photo, of course, so. [00:35:03] Harry Roegiers: We haven't, we, we haven't publicized it, [00:35:05] Adam Fishman: Okay. It's probably good. [00:35:07] Harry Roegiers: maybe why not? [00:35:08] Adam Fishman: It's probably good. okay. Rule... Thank you for that story. I, I am now-- My curiosity is piqued. you have a third rule, which is that kids don't have to stay at the table when they're done until a certain age. So, you know, you live in Belgium. The long Sunday lunch with the grandparents is kind of a sacrament, uh, as I understand it. [00:35:30] Adam Fishman: This is a thing. are you raising kids who can survive a two-hour, multi-hour Flemish family meal, or is that not a priority right now? Okay. [00:35:40] Harry Roegiers: Um, and, and, and to be fair, it, uh, to some extent it, it, it hurts my heart because I love to cook. I love to cook extensive dinners. But I, I do remember, being a kid myself, I remember having to stay at the dinner table felt like torture. And then at some point you grow up and there's this thing where you start to realize how awesome dinner table is, [00:36:03] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:36:03] Harry Roegiers: just wanna stay there, right? [00:36:05] Adam Fishman: You want to be part of the adult table, you know? Yeah. [00:36:08] Harry Roegiers: right. [00:36:09] Adam Fishman: Yeah [00:36:10] Harry Roegiers: I, I think we've always made this conscious decision. Let, let's not force them, right? Let, you know, they're done. Go ahead, go play. And, and there's gonna be moments where, where that, that rule is gonna change. [00:36:20] Adam Fishman: all right. there is a topic that you put on your list, and I, we're only gonna take this as far as you want to take it because it's maybe a sensitive topic. [00:36:30] Adam Fishman: But, um, and that was managing challenges and you said even possible mental conditions with, with kids. I'm curious why you put that on there and what, what your experience here has been. [00:36:41] Harry Roegiers: this is still very new to us. So I think we're still finding our, our, our way, but I think we've started to notice that our second one is a little bit wired differently. [00:36:52] Harry Roegiers: So nothing, nothing extreme, but these little things like she, she just, um, had her last year of kindergarten. [00:36:59] Harry Roegiers: She-- The last year, every, every day she complained that she was bored to death. hasn't even entered the first grade. She can practically read. Um, she at some point-- Saying hello to people, has always been a challenge. And, and I think the last thing is like no margin of negotiation with her, [00:37:20] Harry Roegiers: right? [00:37:21] Adam Fishman: Interesting. [00:37:21] Harry Roegiers: no, it's definitely no. [00:37:22] Harry Roegiers: so that for us, you know, those were a couple of signals to start thinking like, "Hey, it might there be something else. Could she be perhaps a little bit on the spectrum or be, have a high IQ or whatever? Something, something must be going on." So that's we're looking into, and I think I'm still struggling with, Are you doing the right thing to go look in there and maybe mislabel or label you shouldn't be labeling? [00:37:48] Harry Roegiers: Or are you doing the right thing to give her the extra care that she might need because she's wired differently, right? So it's still a little bit of a, a search there. [00:37:56] Adam Fishman: So I know how this works in the United States, and I hear what you're saying. You know, five is-- It's tough to say, right? What's happening in a five-year-old brain. What is the, what is this experience like in Belgium? Like, what, what sort of care or support structure or, like, medical system exists for kind of exploring this? [00:38:19] Harry Roegiers: it's a good question. I, I, I think there's, there's plenty of avenues that you can take, right? [00:38:23] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:38:24] Harry Roegiers: it's, it's via the school or via doctors or... I think we, we took the deliberate choice to take on a coach [00:38:32] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:38:32] Harry Roegiers: with that, [00:38:33] Harry Roegiers: which [00:38:33] Adam Fishman: is this a coach for you and Hannelore or is this a coach for your daughter? For, for you as parents. Okay [00:38:39] Harry Roegiers: And I think the route that we're taking for now is like, let's not, um, put her in 5,000 sorts of tests because it is still early, right? But do try to find, um, um, a parenting manual that gives her the love, the, the, the, the right mechanics that she needs as a child. Um, so that's, that's been our pathway for now. [00:39:04] Adam Fishman: is that challenging for you and Hannelore to kind of navigate the not knowing space or this like is she, isn't she kind of thing? Or has the coach been helpful with that? [00:39:17] Harry Roegiers: Yeah. So the, the, the coach has been super helpful with that. I struggle a little bit more than Hannelore with, with, with the not knowing what the label is. I think it's, it's, you know, the, the part of manager Harry who [00:39:27] Adam Fishman: Yeah, I was gonna a- ask. This is the ultimate test of... [00:39:31] Harry Roegiers: right? [00:39:31] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Yeah [00:39:33] Harry Roegiers: graphs around this." No, so, so I, I, I know I struggled a little bit in the beginning like, "Hey, we're not gonna find the label." Um, but then I quickly realized that, it's exactly what you said. She's still young and, and at that age it's, it's, it's hard to really that, especially when it's not super, super clear signals like [00:39:54] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:39:55] Harry Roegiers: while Hannelore, um, she's totally fine with not labeling or [00:40:00] Adam Fishman: うん。 [00:40:00] Harry Roegiers: out what it is. She... I'm, I would put my hand in the fire to know that she's got ADHD. never diagnosed it. She was like, "I don't, I, I, I don't care." [00:40:11] Adam Fishman: if you're talking to another dad who might be going through something like this themselves in this sort of not knowing, not knowing, like in between situation, what would you say to another dad who's kind of like sitting in this fog of, uh, understanding at the moment? [00:40:27] Harry Roegiers: for me, I think it's, it would be very, very simple. Like, you can either continue to bang your head on, on, on the labeling thing, or you can just look at it through a very different lens and look at, "Hey, I've got this little human in front of me, and that human is wired this way, we're gonna try to find a way to be better parents for her," without all the labeling involved. And I think that that could still solve a, a lot of the challenges that you see, um, just from a point of, just from a perspective of, love, care, attention, curiosity, I would say. [00:41:08] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Makes sense. Thank you. Uh, I'm sure that's gonna help at least one person listening to this show, so. Um, all right, I wanna talk about different love languages. This was something that you mentioned in your household. so you've got five people in the house, you and your wife, and then three kids. [00:41:26] Adam Fishman: What are the love languages that the different people in the, in the house speak? [00:41:30] Harry Roegiers: Yeah. And, and could be related to our previous topic, by the [00:41:34] Adam Fishman: Okay [00:41:34] Harry Roegiers: I definitely see big, big difference in the love languages be, within my three kids. So for the people who don't know lo- love language, there's five ways that people can experience love. Um, I don't know them by heart. It's by touch, gifting, doing activities together, and I think there's two more. [00:41:51] Harry Roegiers: Don't know them by heart. So the, the one thing they all have in common is gifting is like the biggest way to, to make them happy. but the big, big difference is number one and number three. So Lou and Eddie, they are very touchy. They're cuddly, they're-- You- I'm gonna cuddle with them a lot. Lou is, is not like that. Um, and I had to learn-- It, it was only the moment that I learned this sort of theory that people only have two, generally two or three of the five lo- love languages. Like, that's, that's not how she wants to experience love. [00:42:24] Adam Fishman: Mm-hmm. [00:42:25] Harry Roegiers: But when I play a game with her, she's all over me. I'm hero dad for the, for the next day when I actually spend time to, I don't know, play Monopoly or, or whatever she needs to play. [00:42:38] Harry Roegiers: Um, that for her is like the biggest gift. And, and trying to understand that for your different kids, uh, really helped me a lot, um, to be there as a, as the dad I want to be. [00:42:48] Adam Fishman: of the five love languages, which one's the one that comes least naturally to you? [00:42:53] Harry Roegiers: Gifting, [00:42:54] Adam Fishman: Gifting. So you're not a gifting guy? [00:42:56] Harry Roegiers: No, [00:42:57] Adam Fishman: Okay [00:42:58] Harry Roegiers: we, we, we, we're both not, which is, which is actually fantastic if you're a couple. But we are terrible with gifts. Like [00:43:06] Adam Fishman: What is your primary love language? [00:43:09] Harry Roegiers: Oh, that's a good one. I think touch definitely. Touch is a big one. I'm a big cuddler also when I see my friends. Like, I'm, I'm always gonna give my [00:43:17] Adam Fishman: You're a hugger [00:43:18] Harry Roegiers: a big warm hug. Absolutely. [00:43:20] Adam Fishman: okay. [00:43:20] Harry Roegiers: which is gonna be one of my main things. And, I think one of the five is also, sharing words of appreciation in public. [00:43:28] Adam Fishman: うーん。 [00:43:29] Harry Roegiers: I think that that would be one that, that I'd be very sensible to. That's why I became a DJ. why I became a, a sales trainer because, you know, you're in a situation where you get a lot of compliments for y- from your clients or your dancers. Um, [00:43:41] Harry Roegiers: that's the, the little, uh, peacocky part of, uh, Harry that, [00:43:45] Adam Fishman: Okay. Okay. When you think, when you think about you and Hannelore, um, has having kids changed the love languages between the two of you? Like, uh, do each of you need something differently now than you did before your, your kids arrived? [00:44:02] Harry Roegiers: I'm not convinced it's, it's necessarily a love language, but naturally as, when you become a parent, the, the, one of the biggest gifts you can give to each other is [00:44:11] Harry Roegiers: me [00:44:11] Harry Roegiers: time, space, [00:44:13] Harry Roegiers: that used, used to be not so much of a problem. Um, but yeah, when you got three kids, you've got a, you've got a challenging job or career, right? [00:44:21] Harry Roegiers: The, the biggest gift to each other is, "Hey, Harry, like, I'm gonna take the kids and I'll go do something. You stay home alone this afternoon," [00:44:30] Adam Fishman: Okay. What do you typically do with your own me time when that happens? [00:44:34] Harry Roegiers: In winter? Definitely, um, we-- I'll, I'll go to the sauna. [00:44:39] Harry Roegiers: cold plunge, those are, those are [00:44:41] Adam Fishman: Very nice [00:44:42] Harry Roegiers: completely refresh my mind. [00:44:44] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:44:45] Harry Roegiers: Walking a lot. Love me, uh, walk, love walking during my me time. and I think music. Music has always been a thing that I, I come back to. [00:44:53] Adam Fishman: the very top of this conversation, I said I would come back to this topic of joy and it being an obligation. the exact words that you used when we were talking about this was, "We have an obligation to share joy." obligation is kind of a heavy word for, for joy, which is somewhat of a light thing. [00:45:09] Adam Fishman: So why did you phrase it that way? [00:45:12] Harry Roegiers: Yeah, no, I, I think I was, I was very much inspired with, um, the famous influencer, I don't know if you know him, uh, Stadtguy [00:45:21] Harry Roegiers: you know, obviously he's this very famous influ- influencers who, a little bit with, I would say the, the European elite. [00:45:28] Harry Roegiers: but as a human, he was also, um, invited to speak in front of Oxford students and, and there one of his, um, one of the students asked him, "Hey, like, what is the number one skill you think people need to develop over the next, let's say, 10 years?" And his answer to that was, "Being pleasant. The skill of being pleasant is..." Which I think is, is very close to the skill of, of spreading joy. like a lot of the hard skills that we have are just gonna get eaten away by AI little by little, right? So what's gonna be left is, or one of the things that are gonna be left, is our ability to be something, someone that brings joy in the family, at the office, with clients, with your colleagues. if you can consistently do your best to, to think about the experience of the person in front of you, that's to, to me personally, something really, really important, um, that, uh, that stuck with me. [00:46:27] Adam Fishman: What does proactively spreading joy look like in, in your household? [00:46:32] Harry Roegiers: It's definitely gonna be our, dances [00:46:36] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:46:37] Harry Roegiers: Yeah. [00:46:38] Adam Fishman: Okay [00:46:39] Harry Roegiers: so of course, as a, as a former DJ, I've got speakers in the house everywhere [00:46:43] Adam Fishman: Oh yeah, totally [00:46:44] Harry Roegiers: a button, we can crank up the music and, you know, get, get some funny dances. [00:46:48] Adam Fishman: Yeah [00:46:49] Harry Roegiers: I'm also terrified that my kids are gonna grow up with a bad taste of music, so I try to, to influence it as much as possible. [00:46:58] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:46:59] Harry Roegiers: work. [00:47:00] Adam Fishman: Okay [00:47:00] Harry Roegiers: but yeah, no, definitely. Spreading joy is these little moments where you feel like, hey, the atmosphere's at home. Crank up the music, and then with the kids and, and, and, and yourself, you're gonna be dancing around the break- breakfast table, uh, in our underwear. That's, that's definitely one of our proactively sharing [00:47:17] Adam Fishman: That, it sounds like a great family ritual too. Is that one that you hope your kids are still doing when they're like 40 with their own kids? [00:47:25] Harry Roegiers: 100%. [00:47:26] Adam Fishman: Yeah. I want to talk about the other side of this. Where does the joy obligation get hard? Like, you're building a company, some days are bad, some days are good, but you know, it's hard. [00:47:39] Adam Fishman: What happens to that joy obligation on those days when you're, you've got nothing left in the tank or you're running on empty? [00:47:46] Harry Roegiers: there's actually gonna be those, those days where you come home, your tank is absolutely empty, but just doing that little spread of joy refills your tank. So it can actually be the thing that refills your, your, your tank. But I'm not gonna lie, this doesn't always succeed. Sometimes you just wanna take a bath or get into bed and, like, leave me the F alone time. [00:48:08] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:48:09] Harry Roegiers: those days are there as well. [00:48:10] Adam Fishman: all right, I'm gonna come back to the compare and contrast between you and, and your son Gustav. So for those who've been sticking around since the beginning, you told me that the most impressive thing you built when you were eight was like a, a straw fort to fend off the German army as part of play. [00:48:28] Adam Fishman: tell me about what your eight-year-old built this year [00:48:31] Harry Roegiers: I think I've heard a lot of dads doing, doing something similar and so much fun, but we, we started goofing around with lovable. and [00:48:39] Adam Fishman: My friend Elena will be very happy to hear that. She works there. Yeah. Yep. [00:48:44] Harry Roegiers: she your friend? [00:48:45] Adam Fishman: She is my friend. She is, she is my friend. Yeah. Yeah [00:48:49] Harry Roegiers: That's, that's a good friend to have. She's fantastic. so basically we started goofing around with Lovable. [00:48:54] Harry Roegiers: Um, and one of the, the, the frustrations I have as a dad is when food in the fridge gets bad. This is like my, the little thing that, that puts me off and, and my son knows that. And so basically he had the idea, okay, we're gonna create an app that you can take a, a picture of what's left in the fridge, and then it's just automatically gonna propose you some recipes. Um, that's the thing he, he built by himself and I was, I was super-- I couldn't be more proud when, when he came up with that. [00:49:21] Adam Fishman: Awesome. So Gustav basically vibe-coded an app that takes pictures of the leftovers in your fridge, generates recipes. Walk me through a vibe coding session with an eight-year-old. Like, who's driving it? Who's prompting? Who's debugging? How's it work? [00:49:37] Harry Roegiers: So, so I think the, the, you want to let the creative part as much as possible to the, to the kids, right? That, that's, that's what they're good at. And then I would say actually with Lovable it's, it's, it's, it has become so easy that even the technical debugging part is where I used to jump in, but even now today you, you just basically tell the thing, "Hey, it bugs there," and it just solves itself. [00:50:01] Harry Roegiers: So even that part is actually being taken care of him right now [00:50:04] Adam Fishman: has the family cooked one of the app's recipes? And if so, how was it [00:50:09] Harry Roegiers: Yeah, actually, we cooked, uh, I think a, a delicious omelet, um, [00:50:14] Adam Fishman: very nice [00:50:15] Harry Roegiers: it was a combination that I wouldn't otherwise have thought of. Uh, we had some, like, leftover blue cheese in the, in the fridge was, which was actually super yummy in an omelet. [00:50:25] Adam Fishman: all right. So you've spent an entire career in, in and around technology. is this the relationship that you want your kids to have with AI, basically builders versus consumers? And then one of the big things that comes up is the idea of [00:50:40] Adam Fishman: am I using my own ideas and my own creativity and then leveraging AI as a tool to bring that to life? So am I-- It's the builder, it's doing the, the grunt work. Or am I just like A boring person and I'm asking AI to give me all the creativity. [00:50:58] Adam Fishman: So I'm basically losing, losing the creative muscle [00:51:02] Harry Roegiers: definitely the build- builder mentality is something that we wanna, promote as much as possible. Um, I think in a world where everything gets decided for us, um, I think critical thinking is one of the most important things that we can have. And I think creativity and critical thinking are, are I think closely related to each other. [00:51:22] Harry Roegiers: I think also just as a family, we've always come from, you know, sort of creative backgrounds. the moment I really knew I was gonna stay forever with, with my partner, um, I just w- I went to the United States to, to go to this big new music festival. I came back, we were dating maybe for like two or three weeks at that time, right? [00:51:42] Harry Roegiers: And, she welcomed me at the airport with like two, um, beach chairs, like really col- colorful beach chairs that she completely decorated. And I was like, "Okay, that's, that's the kind of girl I wanna spend my day with." [00:52:00] Adam Fishman: That's awesome [00:52:01] Harry Roegiers: super creative, uh, also with the kids. Um, so I think it's both a, I would say core family value, but also something I think we-- One of the few things that we will have left when AI takes over, so, so super important to, promote. [00:52:19] Adam Fishman: Eddie's probably too young for this, but Lou maybe, maybe not. And you mentioned that she's fairly, like academically kind of cere- she's very cerebral. Is she getting anything out of these sessions or is this mostly just a Gustav and dad thing right now? [00:52:34] Harry Roegiers: Yeah, that's-- It's mostly Gustav and that. [00:52:37] Harry Roegiers: I mean, [00:52:37] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:52:38] Harry Roegiers: the level where Lou is, it's, she can read, but it's gonna be scarily slow and with mistakes. So let alone let her type something in Lovable, uh, that's, that's gonna [00:52:50] Adam Fishman: Sure. [00:52:50] Harry Roegiers: for now. [00:52:51] Adam Fishman: got it. [00:52:52] Harry Roegiers: I'm just realizing that you can probably just talk to Lovable. [00:52:55] Adam Fishman: Oh, I was, yes. Maybe. You learned something new today, so. all right. Let's wind this up, uh, before lightning round. Um, your LinkedIn profile says stealth startup on it. Said we would cover this at the beginning. What can you tell me about your current stealth startup? So, and obviously I realize, like as much or as little as you want to talk about it [00:53:16] Harry Roegiers: No, no, no. Of course. I mean, it's, it's not a, it's not a state secret. Um, I just, the, the reason I'm saying stealth startup is because I did two startup attempts before, and I made a lot of noise, but we never saw an MVP see the light of day. So I'm like, "Hey, I wanna see the MVP see the light of day in the hands of users I'm just gonna overly shout from the roof like, 'Hey, I've got a new startup going on.'" [00:53:40] Harry Roegiers: Um, so the, the, and that process is moving forward, so, so I'm, I'm, uh, I'm very bullish about that. But, what we're building basically is a live call coach, uh, for [00:53:51] Adam Fishman: Okay. Oh [00:53:53] Harry Roegiers: I've been in the sales performance space for the last 10 years. and at some point you could see like all the tools like a Gong, Chorus, et cetera, uh, the call recorders offering this big promise of, hey, there's a lot of coaching in there afterwards. The harsh reality that we've seen over the last years is that even with those capabilities, like there's, you can learn so much from going into the analytics of your call and become a better salesperson, but it's still a dashboard there somewhere where the majority of, where a big portion of the salespeople don't, just don't invest their time in there. So our hope is to flip the actual script and instead of fixing things when it's too late, try to fix it in the call itself while it's not [00:54:37] Adam Fishman: Cool [00:54:38] Harry Roegiers: get the feedback loop to milliseconds basically. [00:54:41] Adam Fishman: as a burgeoning podcaster, I would love a live interview coach that could be like, "Hey, Adam, you're doing this too much. Like maybe steer it back the other way or something." That, that would be fun. May- you know, maybe as a, as a second, value proposition you can, you can work on that. [00:54:57] Adam Fishman: Nail this first one and then okay, cool. Um [00:55:00] Harry Roegiers: although I only have compliments for the, the way you're running this interview right now. [00:55:04] Adam Fishman: Oh, thank you. [00:55:05] Harry Roegiers: really need a coach, to be [00:55:06] Adam Fishman: Thank you. Well, well, that really, uh, addresses my, one of my love languages, so, uh, so I, I appreciate that. Um, all right, last thing. I ask every founder this. what's one piece of advice that you would give someone who's about to step into your shoes? So either they're a founder currently and they're about to become a dad, or they're a dad about to found a company [00:55:31] Harry Roegiers: Okay. Those are two very different situations, I [00:55:35] Harry Roegiers: think. [00:55:36] Adam Fishman: Yeah [00:55:37] Harry Roegiers: Yeah. So, um, I think a dad becoming a founder, for me, would definitely be on the financial side, is buckle up. Buckle up where you can. And because there's so many ways for us that if we really want to save money, we can. Like, let's be honest, uh, [00:55:54] Adam Fishman: Yeah [00:55:55] Harry Roegiers: if you're doing well in a country like USA or Belgium, like you're spending your, a lot of money on that are fun but not needed, right? Um, so for me, it, that, that process from a consultant to a founder, it took about a year, right? To really think what everything you're spending, like, okay, well, let's buckle up. You don't need this. You don't need this. Um, and, and so that's, that's I think an important lesson for dads who suddenly wanna become a startup founder because you're gonna need your, your money. [00:56:29] Harry Roegiers: Even though if your startup is doing well, it's still gonna take you a year or two before you start earning normally, right? [00:56:34] Adam Fishman: how can people follow along or be helpful to you while you're on this journey right now? [00:56:38] Harry Roegiers: Well, I think, I think from a family side, if people have experiences with, you know, young kids with light forms of autism or high IQ or something else, um, definitely reach out and love to learn about your experiences. then I think from a business side, if you're a B2B seller, uh, and you know, you are looking to, get to your quota faster, have a higher win rates, I mean, I could definitely help. [00:57:08] Harry Roegiers: And we, we're looking for, for, uh, for some users who could, uh, us and shape, uh, shape the first [00:57:15] Adam Fishman: Okay. Well, we'll send them to you on LinkedIn, so awesome. All right. Do you have a few minutes for lightning round? [00:57:21] Harry Roegiers: Certainly. [00:57:22] Adam Fishman: All right, here we go. what is the most indispensable parenting product that you've ever purchased? [00:57:28] Harry Roegiers: -you know these little, um, I would say, I don't know how to call it, but like a little compartment that you can put on the back of your, of the, the driver's chair in the car [00:57:40] Adam Fishman: Yes. [00:57:41] Harry Roegiers: put all their stuff? [00:57:42] Adam Fishman: Yes [00:57:43] Harry Roegiers: there's two wins. Like, first of all, like, there's always gonna be stuff lying around in your car, and that's a very easy way to, like, not always having to put it back in the playing room, but just, just put it there. [00:57:54] Adam Fishman: Yep. [00:57:55] Harry Roegiers: but the real win is if you don't do it, look at the back of your front seat after a year. It's gonna be full with and it's gonna be very hard to sell your car after that. [00:58:09] Adam Fishman: Okay [00:58:10] Harry Roegiers: little things definitely, uh, is a big, uh, big win [00:58:13] Adam Fishman: All right. What is the most useless parenting product that you've ever purchased? [00:58:17] Harry Roegiers: uh, the little side, uh, wheels for kids' bikes. [00:58:22] Adam Fishman: Ah, the training wheels. Yeah [00:58:24] Harry Roegiers: So I, I think in, in our times, this used to be a thing. Now what you do is you actually give them a little bit, I don't know how to call them in English. In Dutch, you call them like a running bike. So [00:58:34] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:58:34] Harry Roegiers: pedals, but [00:58:35] Adam Fishman: Yes [00:58:36] Harry Roegiers: their... That teaches them the balance. And when they're big enough, you just transition them to a, a, a real little bike without the [00:58:43] Adam Fishman: Cool. I think they actually call those balance bikes, uh, or p- or pedal-less balance bikes. Yeah, that's great. Those are-- I cosign the training wheels as a thing that is no longer useful, so good. All right. True or false, there's only one correct way to load a dishwasher [00:59:00] Harry Roegiers: Yes, 100%. And everybody who claims it differently is a complete, I don't know. I'm, I'm gonna keep my swear words to myself. [00:59:10] Adam Fishman: I'll ask Gustav. I'll ask Gustav to give me a good swear word. [00:59:13] Harry Roegiers: So, so, so two things are important here, right? So, so you have two types of dishwashers where you put the cutlery in th- this basket or in a tray. if it's in a basket, it's always eating side up, not down. And everybody who does it otherwise, I don't know, I just don't get it. Like you put the dirtiest part up so it just washes better and it's not contained by this little basket. That is one thing. If you have a tray, I'm, I'm the type who likes to put forks next to each other then so when I have to empty the dishwasher, I just take all the forks at once. Done [00:59:51] Adam Fishman: what is your signature dad superpower? [00:59:53] Harry Roegiers: Making people laugh [00:59:55] Adam Fishman: All right. Proactive joy spreading. There you go. the ideal day with your kids involves what activity? [01:00:03] Harry Roegiers: the perfect day activity for me is gonna be in the, in outdoors, in nature. That could be either at the beach or in woods. Like, get out of the house. That's gonna be an important one. And yeah, finish it off with a, with, with a delicious meal [01:00:18] Adam Fishman: Okay. If your kids had to describe you in one word, what would it be? [01:00:22] Harry Roegiers: Goofy [01:00:23] Adam Fishman: What is your go-to dad wardrobe? [01:00:27] Harry Roegiers: That's probably gonna be underwear and T-shirts during winter [01:00:33] Adam Fishman: Okay. Awesome. Uh, I don't know if in Europe they have the concept of a dad joke, but how many dad jokes do you tell on average in a given day? [01:00:43] Harry Roegiers: Uh, according to my wife, way too many [01:00:49] Adam Fishman: Okay. [01:00:50] Harry Roegiers: that, that, well, that was for me one of the big motivations to become a dad, is I was giving dad jokes before I became a dad, and [01:00:57] Adam Fishman: Yeah [01:00:57] Harry Roegiers: "Hey, man, Harry." Now I'm a dad. I have, I have an excuse to be doing dad jokes. [01:01:02] Adam Fishman: Yes [01:01:03] Harry Roegiers: so, so the, the lamer the better. [01:01:05] Adam Fishman: what is the most absurd thing that one of your kids has ever asked you to buy for them? [01:01:09] Harry Roegiers: I think the classics. so, so definitely a pony. Um, the, the, the, the pony has been a, has been a big thing. you, our, our garden, uh, we live in the city, so our garden is l- literally three meters, three yards on three yards basically. So nine square yards. That's, that's our garden. Um, so, so my little girl is convinced that we can keep a pony there [01:01:32] Adam Fishman: I, I think you could keep a pony there. That sounds about right. what is your favorite kids movie? [01:01:36] Harry Roegiers: Oh, yeah. Th- th- that's definitely by far number one is up [01:01:41] Adam Fishman: Hmm. That is a great film. [01:01:43] Harry Roegiers: I do not cry often in films, but, but Up, Up made me cry [01:01:46] Adam Fishman: Oh, the beginning too? I mean, just devastating. Oh, God, why does every Disney Pixar movie have to start like that? I don't know, but it is so good. what is the worst experience you've ever had assembling a kid's toy or a piece of furniture? [01:02:01] Harry Roegiers: Oh, don't, don't get me started. So this is, uh, this is gonna sound very, very, um, recognizable I think for a lot of parents is the moment you bring an IKEA kit at home What happens there? They see this, they're like, "Yay, this is gonna be fun." [01:02:19] Adam Fishman: Right [01:02:19] Harry Roegiers: unpacking all the screws and the bolts and the, and, [01:02:22] Adam Fishman: Right. [01:02:23] Harry Roegiers: other stuff. And before you know it, they start playing with screws and the bolts, and then halfway through building this, it's like [01:02:30] Harry Roegiers: they're gone. Where is it? [01:02:31] Harry Roegiers: And then you spend-- You lose 15, 20 minutes to, to find the right bolt. You start-- You, you feel the agitation coming up. You feel yourself becoming mad almost. So yeah, no, definitely IKEA [01:02:44] Adam Fishman: Oh, God. Okay. How long can a piece of food sit on the floor and you will still eat it? [01:02:51] Harry Roegiers: Uh, um, q-quite some time. Um, I've got a, a funny anecdote actually on, on one of my best friends. he just broke up with, with his partner. They luckily, they didn't have any kids. I mean, good, good breakup, whatever. So, she g- she was out of the house for, uh, let's say, say one, two weeks. And so he decided to start cleaning, uh, her hobby room. And as he was cleaning the hobby room, he sees a piece of chocolate [01:03:18] Adam Fishman: Okay [01:03:18] Harry Roegiers: the floor. And he was like, in a whim, he was like, "Ah, well, f**k it. Let's just eat it." And he found out two hours later that, um, this wasn't regular chocolate, uh, but this was hallucinating chocolate. So he was basically cleaning up his house, um, completely stoned. [01:03:40] Adam Fishman: Okay, that's epic. how often do you tell your kids back in my day stories? [01:03:45] Harry Roegiers: I do, and I think it's necessary. Especially I think if you, if you compare the pre-internet versus the post-internet. I don't want to get all nostalgic, but I think there's definitely some truths and values that, that we were, we were brought up with that if we don't guard them, well, they're gonna get lost. Um, so that occasional back in my day story, I think it's important we cultivate that for, you know, for the right reasons, uh, obviously [01:04:12] Adam Fishman: Well, last question. What is your take on minivans? [01:04:17] Harry Roegiers: my take on minivans is I'm jealous of the people who have them. you know, I bought, um, a Tesla 3, Model 3 when I had two kids, and I was planning on only having two kids. Then it turned out my wife wanted to have 27 kids, so we settled on three. And now that I have three, I'm like, "Ah, should-- I should have bought a bigger car. [01:04:37] Harry Roegiers: I should have bought a minivan." [01:04:38] Adam Fishman: All right. Well, on that note, Harry, it has been my absolute pleasure hosting you today on "Startup Dad." This was a great conversation. Thank you so much, uh, for everything you shared, and I wish you and your family all the best. And best of luck on your new company [01:04:56] Harry Roegiers: Well, thank you, Adam. Thank you for the invitation, and I wish you all the same, uh, back, of course [01:05:02] Adam Fishman: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Harry Roegiers. You can subscribe and watch the show on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. [01:05:10] Adam Fishman: Visit www.startupdadpod.com to learn more and browse past episodes. Thanks for listening and see you next week.