Latest / Age Defiantly with Mark Young / [Bonus Episode] Could Your Sunscreen Be More Dangerous Than the Sun? | Guerry Grune

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[Bonus Episode] Could Your Sunscreen Be More Dangerous Than the Sun? | Guerry Grune · Age Defiantly with Mark Young

• 0:00
  Welcome to Performance Driven Living, the podcast where we question everything.
• 0:05
  We don't tip to around tough topics, we walk right into them, not to provoke, but to
• 0:11
  get closer to what's real.
• 0:13
  You might not agree with everything you hear, and that's okay.
• 0:17
  The show isn't about being right, it's about being real.
• 0:20
  These conversations are meant to stretch your thinking, challenge assumptions, and spark
• 0:25
  something deeper.
• 0:26
  The views shared are those of our guests and may not reflect those of the host or team.
• 0:32
  And while we dive deep into health, performance, and transformation, this is not medical advice.
• 0:38
  Talk to your doctor before making changes to your health or lifestyle.
• 0:42
  Take what lands, leave what doesn't, but whatever you do, don't stop questioning.
• 0:55
  We are here at Changing Life in Destiny in Plano, Texas with the Performance Driven Living
• 1:00
  Podcast.
• 1:01
  I'm your host, Mark Young, and I am here with my friend and guest, Gary Grun.
• 1:08
  And Gary is an interesting character here, and I'm going to be honest, like he's this cool
• 1:12
  guy, this cat's got it together, Duke University professor, all the crazy, I'm like correct
• 1:18
  on that, right?
• 1:19
  I'm an adjunct, there you go.
• 1:20
  He's an adjunct, exactly.
• 1:22
  I know, he used the official professor title and they probably would be like, they're an
• 1:26
  adjunct.
• 1:27
  That's right.
• 1:28
  That's right.
• 1:29
  I came from education, I did it.
• 1:30
  You know how that works.
• 1:31
  But Gary, the reason I'm interested in talking with Gary here, because here's the deal.
• 1:36
  I'm a Floridian, that's not secret, which means the Floridians were in the Sun a lot.
• 1:41
  And I also played beach volleyball, we've had this conversation before, which means I'm
• 1:46
  in the Sun a lot.
• 1:48
  I'm also a big fan of being in the Sun a lot.
• 1:51
  I believe that the power of sunlight on your body is just, you can't get that in an
• 1:56
  artificial way, so I absolutely want that.
• 2:00
  But I also don't want skin cancer, I also don't want too much sun exposure, and when
• 2:06
  you're playing four hours in the hot sun in the Florida summer in Miami, Fort Lauderdale
• 2:11
  area, sometimes a little bit, it's a little too much, but I understand your
• 2:16
  product to understand that you're doing sunblock different, because I'll start off by saying
• 2:23
  one of the things that a lot of people don't realize is they will eat things based on
• 2:28
  what they would, what they would think is palatable, but they also, you know, if I handed
• 2:33
  you something disgusting, and if I were like, here, here's my suntan lotion, drink some,
• 2:39
  right?
• 2:40
  People, people be like, what the fuck are you talking about?
• 2:43
  Why would I drink suntan lotion?
• 2:44
  And yet most people don't understand that if I drink it, my digestive system actually
• 2:51
  stands a chance at defending my body against something that's bad.
• 2:56
  If I'm rubbing it on my skin, I'm literally absorbing that stuff directly into my bloodstream.
• 3:02
  So literally smearing things on your skin causes more damage than if you were to swallow
• 3:08
  them, because your guts used to fighting off toxins, your guts used to dealing with
• 3:13
  that kind of stuff.
• 3:14
  Your skin doesn't.
• 3:15
  True.
• 3:16
  True.
• 3:17
  So true.
• 3:18
  So the reality, and I know I oversimplify people's products, and sometimes they're just
• 3:20
  like, well, I'm so much more complicated than I'm like, I'm a marketing guy, I'm going
• 3:25
  to explain things the way that normal people would perceive them, not the way scientists
• 3:29
  do.
• 3:30
  So here's, here's what I want to chat with you about here, because I know I've given
• 3:34
  you testimonials in the past, and I've straight up, when I'm at the beach, I use you.
• 3:40
  It is third rock, and I'm third rock or nothing, because I'm not taking banana boat and rubbing
• 3:50
  it all over me, because here's the bottom line, I wouldn't drink banana boat.
• 3:54
  I wouldn't do that, the skin care that I use, and I'm turning 50 in a couple months,
• 3:59
  I told you that.
• 4:00
  I'm very conscious of the way my skin looks.
• 4:03
  Because I want to look good, and so I'm very cautious about my skin, and there's garbage
• 4:10
  out there.
• 4:11
  Clots, yeah.
• 4:12
  What's the difference?
• 4:13
  Just jump and write in, okay, okay, so everything you said is absolutely correct.
• 4:19
  We do make food grade edible sunscreen, because we believe that you have to have a non-toxic
• 4:25
  product, and non-toxic for us means absence of cell death.
• 4:32
  So that is a real big issue, right, so we've proven that, and I'll go into a little bit
• 4:39
  more detail.
• 4:40
  Yeah, I want the science, because I mean, this whole idea that you are mineral-based non-nano,
• 4:46
  and normally people are hearing this word nano, and thinking that's a good thing, but in
• 4:51
  your world, nano is a bad thing, because that means it actually gets into the skin, but
• 4:56
  non-nano is a different size molecule.
• 4:58
  Right.
• 4:59
  You're the scientist, aren't you?
• 5:01
  All the things you're talking about are sort of the buzzwords for the marketing folks, and
• 5:04
  so from the science perspective, it's my job, I guess, to decipher that, and at least
• 5:10
  from a scientific standpoint, because what I like to say is what we do is science not
• 5:15
  hype, right, and so how did this whole thing start is I had two young guys that I surfed
• 5:21
  with, because I like to surf, you like to play volleyball, I like that too, but surfing's
• 5:26
  how it started, and I had two young guys in their early 20s, different doctors, different
• 5:30
  times, both got diagnosed with melanoma, and what happened was they went to dermatologists,
• 5:37
  two different ones, dermatologists told them the exact same thing, you know, keep surfing,
• 5:41
  you get it again, so at age 20, 20 something, they quit surfing, because they were scared,
• 5:46
  right, they're scared of getting skin cancer again.
• 5:49
  Now, skin cancer is a whole different ball game, I'm not a dermatologist, I have a great
• 5:54
  dermatologist on our board, but what I decided to do is try to make, try to develop a non-toxic
• 6:01
  cytoprotect of immuno-enhancing, non-endocrine disrupting sunscreen, so that's a lot of
• 6:07
  information.
• 6:08
  There's a lot of buzzwords that we're going to have to unpack, those wanted to test, yes,
• 6:11
  and then the non-anal part is also interesting, so, cytoprotect of means it keeps the cells
• 6:17
  from becoming precancerous or cancerous, there's a lot of discussion about that in the science
• 6:23
  of the community about the fact that probably all of us have cancerous cells, and it's
• 6:27
  your immune system that's trying to keep you strong.
• 6:29
  Exactly, and so my goal was to make a proactive sunscreen, which would actually boost your
• 6:35
  immune system in the presence of the sun, so let's talk about endocrine disruptors,
• 6:40
  also known as female mimicking hormones, well, when I found out about that in 2001,
• 6:45
  from Margaret Schlump, who's a toxicologist at the University of Zurich in Switzerland,
• 6:49
  being an ACS, American Chemical Society member for now, almost 50 years, I get the front
• 6:54
  page article every week, something about something, hers was, are the sunscreen safe.
• 7:00
  And what she determined by lathering the back of female rats with sunscreens that were
• 7:05
  available in SOAR at this time, with the organic active, so the organic active are things
• 7:12
  like methoxycinimate, avobenzone, oxybenzone, phenoxyethanol, those are what they call active
• 7:20
  sunscreens, they really filter out mostly UVB, avobenzone being the exception, we'll talk
• 7:25
  about that.
• 7:27
  And when those female rats, uterus grew abnormally large, she determined that that was meaning
• 7:33
  that they were endocrine disruptors, female mimicking hormones.
• 7:37
  Fast forward a few years, the Danes, I call them the crazy Danes, they take all the sunscreens
• 7:41
  off the shelf, Denmark, as we know is part of the EU, the EU commissioner said, you crazy
• 7:47
  Danes, what are you doing, you can't do that, so they put the sunscreens back on the
• 7:51
  shelf, this is 2004, but they did a study, and so this is one of the things you brought
• 7:56
  up, they did a study, and the study concluded that all of these organic active sunscreens
• 8:02
  were getting into the bloodstream, and how they were measuring it in the blood plasma,
• 8:09
  and in the urine, okay, but then at the end of the article, they said, well, you know,
• 8:14
  the concentration of what gets into the blood is probably only really bad for infants and
• 8:20
  small children, okay, so we can spare them, right, right, and so, and you may remember this,
• 8:28
  but there was the first real blast of this kind of thing that ever happened was Ralph
• 8:33
  Nader, so Ralph Nader talked about cyclamates back in the early 60s, there was a product
• 8:38
  called Tab, and what happened was it was discovered that if people met people, if my strength
• 8:43
  enough Tab, okay, they would develop some cancer, right, and probably that's true, cyclamates
• 8:50
  were then banned, right, and then we got with Sakarin, and God only knows all the other
• 8:55
  man-made sweeteners, but I won't get off the tangent, I'm just saying, you know, what
• 8:59
  happens is the food industry and the personal care industry are guilty of one thing, and
• 9:03
  that is they mass produce, you can't argue with that, now, are they mass producing good
• 9:08
  stuff, bad stuff, or something in between, mass producing whatever they can market, whatever
• 9:12
  they can market, and whatever is cheap enough to sell, right, so, you know, they say the
• 9:16
  same old crap in a different bottle or a different label, well, it turns out the sunscreen
• 9:20
  market is about about a billion and a half dollar market, it's not been a great market
• 9:26
  honestly, and it's not all we make in our product line, but, you know, talking about
• 9:30
  the sunscreen, you're exactly right about that, about all the things you said, the non-nanol
• 9:36
  part is become a bigger issue over time, really, the whole thing about nanosized particles
• 9:42
  is that the mineral sunscreens didn't even exist until about the late 80s, early 90s,
• 9:48
  I found out about it when I was in Australia, got to go over there on business, got to surf,
• 9:52
  got to surf as paradise, found out the Australians were using titanium dioxide and zinc oxide,
• 9:59
  and I'm like, oh, that's interesting, I come back to the States, and then that article
• 10:02
  appears in 2001 with Margaret Slum, and I said, you know, I don't want female mimicking
• 10:06
  hormones on my body, I'm a man, number one, and it turns out female mimicking hormones
• 10:12
  are endocrine disruptors, what does that mean?
• 10:14
  Your immune system is going to be affected if you've got endocrine disruptors, because
• 10:18
  the endocrine system is what really allows you to flush toxins out of your body, right?
• 10:24
  It includes all the glands, includes your kidneys, and your bladder, and you name it, right?
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  So endocrine disruptor, I'm thinking, well, if it's disrupting the endocrine system,
• 10:36
  that doesn't sound good, because now all the toxins that are supposed to be coming out
• 10:40
  of me are being accumulated inside, because it's disrupting that system, forget about the
• 10:45
  fact that it's female hormone, that's a bad enough, and your uterus to grow too large.
• 10:50
  That's right, exactly, exactly.
• 10:53
  So I said, well, wait a minute, so then I decided, well, if I'm going to make this product,
• 10:59
  I've got to come up with something that is zinc only, and because zinc oxide happens
• 11:05
  to be the best UVA, UVB absorber of all the ones that are allowed by the FDA.
• 11:09
  The FDA considers sunscreen a drug, because it's being applied to your largest organ, which
• 11:15
  is your skin, and of course, you know, you can really tell a lot about the health of people
• 11:19
  by looking at their skin, the skin's your largest organ.
• 11:22
  If you keep your skin healthy, probably your insides are probably pretty doing pretty
• 11:26
  well.
• 11:27
  I always use the phrase that when people are having an issue like my sister's got this
• 11:29
  terrible thing going on with her face right now, that sounds like a brother thing to
• 11:33
  say, but I keep telling her, she's wanting to get every kind of dermatological thing done
• 11:39
  and I'm like, right?
• 11:40
  You've got an inside problem.
• 11:41
  Right.
• 11:42
  Something else is going on.
• 11:43
  The skin is doing is projecting what's going on in the inside.
• 11:46
  I would agree 100%.
• 11:47
  I think your skin reflects what your inside health is.
• 11:50
  Absolutely.
• 11:51
  As well as the fact that you want to keep your skin healthy for your to protect your
• 11:54
  inside as well.
• 11:55
  Sure, sure.
• 11:56
  Goes both ways, right?
• 11:57
  Because you're worse systems, you know, I'm a chemical engineer, PhD, chemical engineer,
• 12:00
  I'm not a physiologist, I'm not a dermatologist, I'm not a medical doctor, but I do know one
• 12:04
  thing.
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  Garbage in is garbage out.
• 12:06
  100%.
• 12:07
  And we're, if you want to consider the human body of black box, which is how
• 12:11
  what's chemical engineers think, you know, black box garbage in garbage out, then
• 12:15
  I said, well, I want really good stuff in because I want to make sure that in the presence
• 12:19
  of the sun, which is the biggest free radical generator on the planet or off the planet,
• 12:23
  right?
• 12:24
  I want to make sure that what I'm doing is protecting my skin health, right?
• 12:28
  And so to do that, I want to build an immune system.
• 12:31
  And I'm thinking these other sunscreens, these additives that are endocrine disruptors,
• 12:35
  and they're, by the way, not just the actives, the inactives that they put into the sunscreens
• 12:39
  are just as bad or worse as well, including parabens and all kinds of other emulsifiers
• 12:44
  that are mostly toxic.
• 12:46
  And I'm thinking to myself, holy cow, I'm putting this stuff on my skin and my endocrine
• 12:49
  system is being disrupted, which means I'm not getting rid of the toxin.
• 12:52
  So immune system is being depressed.
• 12:55
  And you're putting additional toxins in.
• 12:57
  Yeah.
• 12:58
  So it's like, it's not just that you're a negative because you're not eliminating the
• 13:01
  right.
• 13:02
  And pouring the toxins in and stopping the toxins from being removed.
• 13:07
  Exactly.
• 13:08
  You're creating a one-way prison system.
• 13:09
  Yeah.
• 13:10
  Yeah.
• 13:11
  So the black box is filling up with toxins.
• 13:12
  Right.
• 13:13
  So I'm like, OK, I got to, I got to reverse the trend here.
• 13:15
  I got to take that and make it and make it a non-toxic non-endocrine disrupting system
• 13:21
  that is also proactive.
• 13:24
  So how did I do that?
• 13:25
  Well, it turns out I was, I was working with a kinesaeologist chiropractor who does
• 13:30
  muscle testing.
• 13:31
  So he said, well, Gary, I'm very interested in this.
• 13:34
  He says, let's muscle test everybody on everything.
• 13:36
  So we took every ingredient that was off the shelf that everybody was making sunscreen
• 13:40
  with.
• 13:41
  And we tested it, muscle test.
• 13:43
  And then I said, well, muscle testing's a little, you know, wonky maybe.
• 13:47
  I said, let's do something more.
• 13:49
  His first patient was a guy named Dr. George Clark.
• 13:52
  And he came up with an assay, a bio assay.
• 13:54
  And bio assay is using what fireflies use, which is an enzymatic, a luciferase enzyme.
• 14:01
  And he put it in a bio assay.
• 14:04
  And what happens in the bio assay is they determine cell death that way.
• 14:08
  And when cells die, the light dims.
• 14:10
  So it's a photo bio, a photo biological assay, right?
• 14:15
  And so they can measure down to 10 to the minus 16th power if something is killing cells
• 14:20
  or not.
• 14:21
  So they can measure down to essentially zero whether something's toxic or not toxic.
• 14:27
  Well, his, his protegeys and his colleagues decided we were going to publish the results
• 14:33
  in the Journal of Taxicology in 2005.
• 14:36
  Well, I couldn't go to that conference because it was my daughter's fifth birthday that
• 14:40
  week.
• 14:41
  So I couldn't go to San Diego and present, but they did.
• 14:44
  And then Lori all came up to them and said, we're glad you didn't put our product in
• 14:48
  there.
• 14:49
  So they took all the products they could from Walmart at the time off the shelf and tested
• 14:53
  them for endocrine disruption, as well as all the individual components.
• 14:57
  There was a one-to-one correlation between muscle testing, something that we can strengthen
• 15:02
  or has no effect and the toxicity of those, all of those items that we, including the
• 15:07
  sunscreens, one-to-one correlation, including a corning oil product that was made specifically
• 15:13
  to be non-toxic.
• 15:15
  And when I was exposed to it for muscle testing, it didn't strengthen me.
• 15:18
  It didn't really weaken me.
• 15:19
  It sort of had no effect.
• 15:21
  Things out when we ran it in this test, the Luciferase Enzyme photobiological test, what
• 15:30
  happened was we measured that it was actually toxic at 10 to the minus 12th power, meaning
• 15:36
  that there was still a slight amount of toxicity, right?
• 15:39
  Nothing that you noticed.
• 15:40
  Exactly.
• 15:41
  So we don't use silicon oil.
• 15:42
  And I then was hired by birthspeeds to make their product for them because we patented
• 15:45
  our formulation.
• 15:46
  Well, birthspeeds sold out to Chloroxin 2007 for $987 million, and they decided not to
• 15:53
  make sunscreen anymore and canceled my contract.
• 15:56
  But you know, things happen that's a business issue, different than the science.
• 15:59
  So getting back to the science, what you and your folks should know is about the fact
• 16:05
  that the FDA really regulates SPF, the sun protection factor, right?
• 16:11
  So when you or I are out in the sun, for let's say, say 20 minutes to make things simple,
• 16:16
  and you buy an SPF 30 product, why you buy an SPF 30?
• 16:19
  Well, you don't want to burn it.
• 16:21
  Well, SPF 30 is sun protection factor 30.
• 16:24
  So 30 times 20 is 600 minutes of protection.
• 16:27
  600 minutes is 10 hours, right?
• 16:30
  Okay.
• 16:31
  10 hours of protection.
• 16:32
  10 hours of protection from what?
• 16:33
  From burning.
• 16:35
  Why?
• 16:36
  What are you protecting?
• 16:37
  You're protecting UVB only.
• 16:39
  So SPF only measures in the UVB range, and very few people, partly, any know that.
• 16:45
  Okay.
• 16:46
  So I want to unpack that because here's a little known fact.
• 16:49
  Yes.
• 16:50
  I actually used to own a tanning salon, many years ago, and yet one of the things that I would
• 16:54
  deal with all the time, and I was a silent partner for a long time, but I would spend a
• 16:58
  lot of time there and anything that I got involved in, I wanted to understand better
• 17:01
  than anybody.
• 17:02
  Yes.
• 17:03
  It's a concept of UVB versus UVA light versus infrared light, UVC, and so forth.
• 17:11
  It's UVA and UVB that really affect the skin more than anything, and I'm going to oversimplify
• 17:16
  things because that's what I do, and that is UVB light, what most people don't understand
• 17:22
  is that UVB is actually the rays, and those are short wave ultraviolet lights that are
• 17:27
  actually, they trigger the production of melanin in the skin, and melanin is actually like
• 17:33
  a pink secretion, and that pink secretion starts to move to the surface of the skin with
• 17:37
  the intention of catching any light that starts to penetrate the skin to stop it from
• 17:43
  going any deeper.
• 17:45
  Perfectly described.
• 17:46
  Yes.
• 17:47
  UVA light, which people don't entirely understand, is long wave ultraviolet light, and long
• 17:52
  wave ultraviolet light, UVA actually, as it penetrates, is caught by this pink secretion
• 17:58
  called melanin.
• 18:00
  The oxygenation process of melanin is what turns it around.
• 18:04
  Yes.
• 18:05
  Yes.
• 18:06
  Net the fact, what we're looking for out of sun tanning is all of this melanin production.
• 18:14
  That's with a lot of people in the tanning business call that the base tan.
• 18:17
  Yes.
• 18:18
  I'm going to get short term doses of UVB, which starts priming that pump for UVB, that melanin
• 18:24
  production, then exposure to UVA triggers the oxygenation process, oxygenation process turns
• 18:30
  us brown.
• 18:31
  Yes.
• 18:32
  None of that is wrong.
• 18:33
  I 100% agree.
• 18:34
  But scientifically, yes.
• 18:35
  But I mean, even the use of UVA and UVB to trigger a melanin response in the body doesn't
• 18:41
  hurt the body.
• 18:42
  Agreed.
• 18:43
  There's no damage being done to you by triggering melanin in tanning, and that is one of the things
• 18:49
  that absolutely drives me crazy is people with this tanning is bad, you're going to end
• 18:55
  up with damage.
• 18:56
  Right.
• 18:57
  No, no, no, tanning is how I've described it to people as the ultimate biohack, because
• 19:02
  where's what I'm going to say?
• 19:03
  From a biohack perspective, we use systems in the body to trigger a wanted result, sometimes
• 19:10
  that's greater health, sometimes that's greater brain optimization, sometimes it's an aesthetic.
• 19:15
  Yes.
• 19:16
  I am hacking my body's defense mechanism to create an aesthetic that I find attract
• 19:21
  off.
• 19:22
  100% all everything you said is correct.
• 19:24
  So in hacking my body's defense mechanism, I simulate it with UVB light, I trigger this
• 19:31
  pink secretion, which starts to move to the surface of the skin, I expose it to UVA
• 19:35
  light.
• 19:36
  All of this is good.
• 19:37
  Yes.
• 19:38
  I get the aesthetic I want.
• 19:39
  Right.
• 19:40
  I've not overdone it.
• 19:41
  Right.
• 19:42
  Here's my problem with the tanning industry in large, okay, now, and I'm not even getting
• 19:47
  into like DHA and dehydroxyacetone, and the ways that we can actually artificially trigger
• 19:52
  these types of physical issues, because that's not related to the sun specifically.
• 19:55
  Right.
• 19:56
  And it's not a tanning bed issue.
• 19:57
  It's not a tanning bed issue.
• 19:58
  Right.
• 19:59
  It's more of a spray tan issue.
• 20:00
  Yes.
• 20:01
  Yes.
• 20:02
  When we get into this type of exposure and the browning, right, okay, I get the aesthetic
• 20:06
  that I want.
• 20:07
  Right.
• 20:08
  The sunblock industry has stopped all of that from happening.
• 20:13
  And in fact, I would say when sunblock is created to stop the, stop the, the, what do
• 20:19
  I want to call the absorption of UVB light?
• 20:21
  Yes.
• 20:22
  UVB light.
• 20:23
  Now, all I'm getting is all the other types of light.
• 20:25
  That's right.
• 20:26
  And I haven't triggered my production of methane.
• 20:28
  And because I haven't triggered my production of melanin, my body's defense stopped.
• 20:32
  Well, at least is diminished, let's just say.
• 20:36
  Sure, sure, sure.
• 20:38
  Not stop because we all have melanin that exists on a regular basis, but my body's defense
• 20:43
  system.
• 20:44
  I'm almost turning it off.
• 20:45
  That's definitely, and then it's, there's definitely a problem there.
• 20:49
  And I can.
• 20:50
  Down regulating.
• 20:51
  Down regulating.
• 20:52
  Down regulating.
• 20:53
  Down regulating.
• 20:54
  Down regulating.
• 20:55
  Down regulating.
• 20:56
  My body's defense.
• 20:57
  Yeah.
• 20:58
  Because my body's defense is triggered by UVB.
• 20:59
  100% agreed.
• 21:00
  So I blocked the UVB.
• 21:01
  Yes.
• 21:02
  And when I blocked the UVB.
• 21:03
  Yes.
• 21:04
  Now I've turned off.
• 21:05
  Yes.
• 21:06
  Yes.
• 21:07
  Why in the world is this okay?
• 21:08
  Okay.
• 21:09
  So exactly.
• 21:10
  So exactly what I was going to just get into, but I'll talk about it in a little bit different
• 21:14
  way than you did.
• 21:15
  I'm also going to say you're sitting there like, why the hell do you know this much about
• 21:18
  sun tans?
• 21:19
  Right.
• 21:20
  Exactly.
• 21:21
  Right.
• 21:22
  Well, you were in the sun booth business.
• 21:23
  I was.
• 21:24
  You were in the sun tanning business.
• 21:25
  Yes.
• 21:26
  Whatever you want to call it.
• 21:27
  We used to call it.
• 21:28
  I was a photobiology conference.
• 21:29
  And I was there with Dr. Bernstein, Dr. Bernstein is de facto probably the number one dermatologist
• 21:34
  on these goes now retired, but still on our board.
• 21:38
  And he called it.
• 21:39
  They hope there was a presentation there called tanning your hide, right?
• 21:43
  And so the thing about what you're talking about in the tanning booth industry, as long
• 21:46
  as done properly, you're controlling that process, right?
• 21:50
  If you're outside playing beach volleyball, you're not controlling that process.
• 21:54
  So if you have a bright day and you're getting reflection from the beach water, from the
• 21:57
  ocean, from the sand, all that, you're getting double triple quadruple doses.
• 22:02
  And you're getting in a lot and it's not controlled.
• 22:04
  You're not usually at areas that you don't normally get tan then 100% because you are getting
• 22:09
  like you've got more susceptible areas and not talking about adult resorts.
• 22:13
  Yeah.
• 22:14
  Yeah.
• 22:15
  I'm talking about when you're out there and you don't have a shirt on and you're hitting
• 22:18
  it in areas like under your arm.
• 22:19
  Right.
• 22:20
  And you place your neck in as thin in any place you don't usually get rid of the radiation.
• 22:24
  Correct.
• 22:25
  So let's talk about UVB for a second because you brought that up.
• 22:27
  Yeah.
• 22:28
  Okay.
• 22:30
  So if you're not starting to burn, your body's not telling you get the hell out of the
• 22:52
  sun, you got all the vitamin D you need for the day, you're starting to turn pink, you got
• 22:56
  everything you need from the sun.
• 22:58
  Now it's time to either get out of the sun, but of course in 20 minutes, we're just warming
• 23:02
  up on the beach.
• 23:03
  I'm getting in the water.
• 23:04
  You're going to play volleyball.
• 23:05
  Yeah.
• 23:06
  We just show warm up.
• 23:07
  Yeah.
• 23:08
  We just showed up, right?
• 23:09
  And so by definition, after those 20 minutes that we start to turn pink or start to
• 23:12
  burn, we're quote unquote overexposed to UVB.
• 23:16
  Now the question is what about UVA?
• 23:19
  Well, it turns out that the sunscreen industry, which you can't call it sunblock anymore as
• 23:23
  of the 2011 FDA monograph, but that's a whole different story.
• 23:27
  You can do it right.
• 23:28
  You can still have to call it sunscreen.
• 23:31
  All the sunscreen components I talked about, the organic sunscreens, they're transparent.
• 23:35
  The only ones that aren't completely transparent is zinc and titanium dioxide.
• 23:39
  And the reason that they're not transparent is because they're pigments, they're metal
• 23:42
  oxides.
• 23:43
  And what happens is when you nanosize them, they become much more transparent.
• 23:48
  And that's how that whole thing came about.
• 23:50
  In fact, the guy who wrote the patents on that or got the patents on that sold his IP
• 23:55
  to BASF and became a billionaire.
• 23:58
  Just by figuring out how to make zinc oxide and titanium dioxide nanosized, right?
• 24:03
  Anyway, so the sunscreen industry adopted that because now all of a sudden, you didn't
• 24:08
  have to look like bozo the clown, you didn't have to look like the lifeguards who put the
• 24:11
  white stuff on their nose, because which is pure zinc oxide.
• 24:14
  But it works.
• 24:15
  Why do they put it on their nose?
• 24:16
  Because it absorbs UVA and UVB and why on their nose?
• 24:19
  Because the nose has very, very thin skin and a lot of people get skin cancer problems
• 24:23
  right there.
• 24:24
  Because that's an area that's very sensitive.
• 24:27
  And you know, anyplace else on your face, really.
• 24:30
  So now what you're doing is you're filtering out the UVB, but what about the UVA?
• 24:36
  So the UVA, as you said, long penetrating rays, those are the ones that when you're overexposed
• 24:43
  cause DNA damage, aging, wrinkling, and if you're like my buddies who works 20 year old
• 24:47
  surfers who probably ate a McDonald's a lot, the immune system was depressed skin cancer,
• 24:53
  right?
• 24:54
  So the onset of melanoma, that type of thing.
• 24:57
  Now with UVA, it turns out Aval Benzone is the number one UVA absorber that's put into
• 25:02
  sunscreens.
• 25:04
  It turns out it doesn't do as good a job as a zinc oxide.
• 25:08
  And it's an organic substance substance, which when UV light hits it, it splits Aval Benzone
• 25:13
  into little fragments.
• 25:17
  And you may have heard two years ago, it was a big deal.
• 25:20
  Benzone found in sunscreen.
• 25:22
  Where did the benzene come from?
• 25:23
  It came from things like Aval Benzone, Benzofanone that literally are long chained versions
• 25:31
  of benzene.
• 25:32
  Okay.
• 25:33
  So benzene's just a monomer, right, which is just a little fennel group.
• 25:37
  These are multiple fennel groups with carbon and hydrogen making them organic with oxygen,
• 25:43
  correct?
• 25:44
  Carbon hydrogen oxygen is the definition, right?
• 25:46
  And so the Aval Benzone, when it becomes, when it hits, when UV light hits it, it's
• 25:52
  a great UVA absorber until you split the molecule.
• 25:55
  And what happens is you're left with residual benzene, okay?
• 25:59
  Right.
• 26:00
  So you and I grew up in a time when we said, you know, maybe, maybe, at least our parents
• 26:04
  were already saying it because your parents, my parents, were, were, were, were, were,
• 26:07
  were using sun tan lotion.
• 26:09
  That's what they used to co-op.
• 26:10
  Yeah.
• 26:11
  It was either mineral oil or coconut oil or a combination of, and it smelled good.
• 26:16
  Yeah.
• 26:17
  And you loved Hawaiian tropic.
• 26:18
  It smelled good.
• 26:19
  But, but it wasn't really very useful.
• 26:21
  And yes, it would help you tan a little bit because if you didn't overexpose yourself,
• 26:27
  the, the oils would get into the skin and they would help like the, like the booth business
• 26:32
  that you were in, the sun booth business, you were in a sun tanning booth, they would
• 26:35
  help produce the melanin, which, you know, made you look tan and healthy and everything.
• 26:40
  So getting back to the UVA.
• 26:42
  So the only thing that really absorbs UVA of all the sunscreen additives that are
• 26:46
  allowed by the FDA is really zinc oxide, even titanium dioxide in the UVA spectrum, which
• 26:53
  is about 280 or 290 nanometers to about 400 nanometers.
• 26:58
  That's the wavelength of UVA during, in that wavelength, really the only thing that really
• 27:02
  works is zinc oxide.
• 27:04
  But here's the big problem.
• 27:05
  And here's where we're different.
• 27:06
  So zinc oxide is a metal oxide.
• 27:09
  When you take zinc oxide and you put it into a water, it becomes zinc hydroxide, which
• 27:15
  is a salt.
• 27:17
  Well, that doesn't sound so bad except for one thing.
• 27:20
  Zinc hydroxide does not absorb in the UVA range like pure zinc oxide does.
• 27:25
  So when the lifeguards put their stuff on their nose, what my goal was is to make what
• 27:29
  that is and make it into a lotion because nobody's going to put pure zinc oxide paste
• 27:34
  on their skin, right, except lifeguards.
• 27:37
  So that's what we've done.
• 27:38
  Now how do we accomplish that as a whole different ballgame?
• 27:41
  I think it's important for people to see because there's such a suspicion right now in
• 27:45
  the marketplace of everything that we're putting on ourselves.
• 27:48
  And I'll go back to our, to our earlier conversation.
• 27:51
  And the friend of mine always refers to the skin as the second mouse that, you know, whatever
• 27:56
  you're putting on your skin, you're literally digesting, right?
• 27:59
  You know, except you lose the defense of the gut, you're putting it right into the blood
• 28:04
  stream.
• 28:05
  Right.
• 28:06
  And it's, it's why, like I said, when I'm out playing, I will put third rock.
• 28:09
  Now I don't put it all over the place because I've, I've got a good defense.
• 28:13
  I'm a naturally darker person anyways.
• 28:15
  So I have more natural melanin production in your skin.
• 28:17
  I put it in the places where it's sensitive and which are going to be, I'll put it on my
• 28:21
  ears, I'll put it on my nose, I'll put it a lot of times, like under my eyes, I'll put
• 28:27
  it in those areas.
• 28:28
  And sometimes I'll go put it on a little bit after I've been playing for a while, right?
• 28:31
  Yeah, because you get a little bit of vitamin D. You get your all of all your vitamin
• 28:34
  D.
• 28:35
  Absolutely.
• 28:36
  Yeah.
• 28:37
  Now I'm willing to go ahead and block a little bit more than that.
• 28:38
  I'll put it on my shoulders actually because that's an area that I burn easily.
• 28:42
  Sure.
• 28:43
  Most of them.
• 28:44
  But I'll put that stuff on it.
• 28:45
  Here's what I appreciate about it though.
• 28:46
  It's like, does it have a bit of a coat to it?
• 28:48
  Yeah.
• 28:49
  Sure.
• 28:50
  You see it?
• 28:51
  Yeah.
• 28:52
  It's not invisible.
• 28:53
  Right.
• 28:54
  And that's okay.
• 28:55
  Because that actually gives me some reassurance that it's there.
• 28:56
  Mm hmm.
• 28:57
  Pardon me.
• 28:58
  I'm also not wondering if I hit all of the places because I can actually see where it
• 29:01
  is, which I actually find beneficial.
• 29:04
  But at the same time, I'm not worried about it absorbing into my bloodstream.
• 29:08
  Aha.
• 29:09
  Interesting.
• 29:10
  So, yeah, go ahead.
• 29:11
  I was going to say, and that to me is probably the one of the biggest benefits of your
• 29:14
  product is this non-nanol, like the product itself is a large enough molecule.
• 29:20
  Right.
• 29:21
  That it's not transdermal.
• 29:22
  Right.
• 29:23
  So the question is, how do we do that?
• 29:25
  I'm sure.
• 29:26
  Right.
• 29:27
  Go ahead, Nancy.
• 29:28
  So what happens with zinc oxide, as I mentioned, is becomes zinc hydroxide in water.
• 29:32
  So there's a way to stop that from happening.
• 29:34
  Turns out, zinc oxide cannot become zinc hydroxide at a pH of 9.5 to 10.5.
• 29:40
  So we control the pH so that we keep it between 9.5 and 10.5, not an easy feat.
• 29:45
  We do that by keylating with L-arginine.
• 29:48
  Interesting.
• 29:49
  So the zinc oxide, really, is bonded with L-arginine.
• 29:53
  And L-arginine, as you probably know, is an amino acid, right?
• 29:57
  So I knew that was helpful, and it would get my pH where I want to.
• 30:00
  It's one.
• 30:01
  L-arginine is also a precursor for nitric oxide.
• 30:03
  It is.
• 30:04
  It is.
• 30:05
  So, you know, again, trying to make a proactive sunscreen, right?
• 30:08
  Yeah.
• 30:09
  So the thing about that, when you put it on, is you won't not only want to feel good,
• 30:12
  but your body actually is absorbing some L-arginine, which is not a bad thing in the presence of
• 30:18
  the sun.
• 30:19
  Again, our whole idea was build the immune system in the presence of the sun, don't
• 30:22
  complete it.
• 30:23
  That's amazing.
• 30:24
  So the zinc oxide molecule is now growing.
• 30:28
  So we don't use non-nanol zinc oxide, which is about 200 microns.
• 30:33
  And then we keylate with L-arginine to make this zinc oxide paste, which, of course,
• 30:37
  we patented because I do patent work for living, as you know.
• 30:40
  So that is the composition that you're putting on your skin.
• 30:44
  Now, the FDA only allows up to 25% by way of any one of these components, zinc oxide
• 30:51
  or titanium dioxide.
• 30:52
  So we use 23.5% to get SPF 35, and of course, SPF, again, is only about UVB.
• 31:00
  What our formulation does is it absorbs across the spectrum equally, UVB and UVA, to the
• 31:07
  point where it's identical with the zinc oxide, and it's never becomes zinc hydroxide.
• 31:14
  Which is a problem with UVA absorption.
• 31:18
  Only UVA, not UVB, only UVA absorption, which are the long penetrating rays, which if
• 31:24
  you're overexposed, not in the suntan business, but because you're going to be controlled.
• 31:28
  But if you're overexposed like us in the beach, wherever we are, biking, whatever we're
• 31:33
  doing, you're going to be overexposed after, let's say, 20, 30, 40 minutes, whatever.
• 31:37
  Then all of a sudden, you know, you've got DNA damage that's starting to occur.
• 31:41
  And if the DNA damage is occurs and you mutate enough cells, then you've got problems.
• 31:46
  Absolutely.
• 31:47
  Gary, I love this stuff.
• 31:48
  Obviously, I could talk about this stuff all day.
• 31:50
  I love the opportunity to talk with you, obviously, but I encourage people who are listening.
• 31:55
  If you've never heard of third rock, they've got a lot of different products.
• 31:59
  We do.
• 32:00
  Just on sunscreen.
• 32:01
  Yeah.
• 32:02
  But the reality is, is that's the one that I love the most.
• 32:03
  I'm sure there's others that are even better, but it's the one I use most often.
• 32:07
  I encourage you to check out the show notes.
• 32:09
  You'll actually see links to third rock.
• 32:11
  Check out Gary Groen's information online.
• 32:14
  Learn more about this educator by nature, college professors, scientists.
• 32:19
  That's true.
• 32:20
  So, yeah, guys, check it out and I encourage it, especially for my Floridian friends.
• 32:25
  Make sure that we're staying safe.
• 32:26
  See you.