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100. Stay Curious, Not Critical: How Curiosity Transforms Conflict into Connection · The Leader in You

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Experience work interactions in a different and refreshing light.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams that you care about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: We bring the signs of attachment and emotional connection with insight from the last 20 years to share how you can overcome conflict issues at work and build strong team relationships as well as the connected culture.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here with the amazing Dr.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Lola Gershfeld.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Dr.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Paulina.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's so nice to be here with you.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is episode 100, and I'm coming to you live from Hawaii.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I am traveling in Hawaii this week.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so what island are you on?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: A magical island of Maui.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, how's the weather?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it's a that's been not so great.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit and a bit rainy and um windy.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very windy, but this is typical for this time of year, uh leading into like August, the first two weeks of August.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: So Yeah, do you you you used to live in Hawaii?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do you miss it?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't miss living here.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I miss the fruit.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I did a video this morning about the fruit I found at the farmer's market, and so I definitely miss the fruit, and it's so beautiful here, you know, it's so green.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I step off the plane, I forget all my responsibilities.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Is it the weather or is it just the environment?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: What makes that to forget your responsibility?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's definitely the energy here on the islands, not the weather.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I don't feel that way when I go to Florida, you know.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love the weather in Florida, it's amazing too.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like I definitely feel like it's an it's an energy thing.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're on an island, you know, you can't leave.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: You are want to drive, but you can only drive on one road around the whole island if you want to go anywhere, you know.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: What is your best memory of living in Hawaii?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's lovely.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Does that have to do with the EMC process?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, since you are there, I I thought I would ask you a few questions.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure our listeners would really be intrigued by your experience in living in Hawaii.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: How long you lived there?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: For like seven or eight years or something?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, seven memories.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, Hawaii is the place where I really focused a lot on understanding the EMC process, you know, and doing a lot of EMC work with you in our relationship, EMC work with my kids, a lot of EMC work in my business.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do feel like a lot of healing happens here on this island, you know.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you live here, people say like Maui will test you to see if you're strong enough to survive.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And anytime you would like want to hurry, you uh Maui stops you from doing that.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're like in a hurry to do anything, it's like you're constantly reminded by all these different signs to slow down, you know, slow down and and enjoy the moment, which coincides so beautifully with the EMC process because that's our first tool we teach everybody to slow down, right?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we live in a world, most of the world where it is, you know, urgent with urgency, and you have to get somewhere and go somewhere, and you gotta hurry home, and you gotta hurry to work, and you gotta hurry to fulfill the expectations people have of you and the expectations you have of yourself.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So living in an island like this is very different lifestyle.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is in slow motion, not our emotions, though, you know, emotions still move very fast, even when you're on an island.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um, because people are they might not just not be as concerned, you know, with their emotions.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: They say, let's go surfing instead, you know.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we can just sleep on the beach and yeah, sleep on the beach and not to worry about anything.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Drink our worries away, you know.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that it's uh very, very, very interesting place to live.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: There there's a lot of parts of this experience that force you to be outside, which I love.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I love being outside, I love adventures, I love I love hiking and you know, being in the outdoors, doing something exciting and adventuring somehow, somewhere.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so Maui is that way.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's the lifestyle here.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I missed that along with like the fruit and you know, kind of life is not as serious when you live here.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: So very interesting.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for sharing.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is uh was not expecting this conversation to start off our hundredth episode of the Leader in You podcast, but it does coincide with the topic that we have today.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting, Dr.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Lil.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Last week we were talking about um the form, you know, and the importance of the form and how to use the form to effectively communicate and really regulate your emotions.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that one of the things that I noticed that I was kind of thinking about this last week after the podcast we recorded, was the struggle that people have to be on the receiving end of the way people express themselves.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean is if people, and this is something that I really thought would be such a great topic for you to kind of dive into for our listeners today, if people do use the form and they are helping themselves, yes, I know that you mentioned it is like a way to work together with someone on resolving conflict, but let's say, you know, you do use the form to help understand and clarify your own emotions.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: What happens when you get to a point where maybe the other person in the workplace is not willing and not open to either listen and receive the information or to be comfortable enough to share their experience in a situation?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: This is uh such a timely also uh question that you're asking me because I'm in the process of writing another book.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: And this book is called Emotionally Connected Leadership.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I talk about what leaders can do to become more emotionally balanced and emotionally accessible, responsive, and engaged and be present uh with their team members and with their colleagues.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the um, you know, as you ask questions, what if one person shares and the other person doesn't want to share?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: What happens next?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we know by science that when people work together, they depend on each other, and that dependency automatically creates a need for attachment.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: So they they do have the longing for connection with the people around them because they're dependent on each other.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's how we we're wired.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: We are biologically are you know built that this way.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, what happens when people don't want to share is because number one, they don't feel safe to share, number two, they are afraid of their own vulnerability.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, sometimes people, uh, as John Balby puts it so nicely, that underneath every um, you know, fear is this unacceptable alien emotion that they never experienced, they never um maybe felt.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: And what happens sometimes if you don't have the opportunity to actually experience that emotion and tune and to touch that emotion, so to speak, you get so scared of it as if you're gonna die.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like so overwhelming for you.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's like if you're ever going to touch it, if you're going to share it, if you're going to speak it, you're suddenly going to, it overwhelms you, it's like consumes you.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: So it's very important for the other person is to understand how difficult it can be for the person who doesn't want to share, and how scary it can be for them to even experience to share.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: So we have to find a lot of empathy for that person and to recognize how difficult it is for them.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: And we have to accept, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Accept their experience where they are.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: The most important thing is we have to have another person who we can go to and share our own experience and do the EMCD connection form so we don't feel alone in our experience or feeling not being able to connect with that person.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, yeah, and that that makes sense.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that maybe the struggle I hear sometimes is like communicating in this way is a different language, you know.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if we don't have someone on the receiving end that understands how to respond, that's why I like the form so much, because even in the sections where you do specify like your triggers and your raw spots, underneath those boxes, there's like that little line that gives the person listening you know, direction on how to respond to the other person expressing.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have like the one who's speaking and then the one who's responding.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then they have that option of switch turns.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess it's like I think that people get stuck in feeling like it's not that they still don't have that availability with the other person that they may be experiencing the conflict with.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I I do feel like even if they do share or are even able to like organize their emotions in their own way, they probably have a lot more confidence and clarity to express what's going on with them with the person that they're in conflict with.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right, exactly.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because the whole point, what we are trying to do is we're trying to be coherent with our own experience, right?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: We we're trying to make sense uh internally for us.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: How do we communicate that without attacking the other person, without judging, without criticizing the other person?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: And often when we um, you know, when if people don't have the the training of how to do that and the skills and the tools, like the EMC reconnection form, what happens is when you ask them, what what happened?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: What what do they do?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: They always describe what the other person has done.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they like this, they don't do this, and this is this is the person of this problem.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: So what's going on is that they they don't know how to express their own experience, so they are trying to describe the other person's behavior and actions, and that comes across as criticizing and judging and blaming, and and then they defend themselves or withdraw and shut down.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: So this is what we're trying to avoid.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: We are teaching people how to understand their own experience so they can be coherent in the in sharing that experience.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what about a situation where like someone, you know, could have a conflict with someone else in their team, and but the pattern, you know, and the trigger that they've had was from a previous relationship, from like past job?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say they were in a job previously and they felt very conflicted with their boss, for example, or a coworker with kind of the same pattern, right?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And now the pattern is showing up again, but they didn't actually they weren't actually able to deal with that pattern with a person they had conflict with in their previous work.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So do you feel like it's like even acceptable for someone to be sharing, you know, and working through a conflict that they had within themselves with a someone else completely in a different job with a person that you know they're experiencing now at work?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like that's very common too, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: People bring their past trauma in their workplace and their experiences with their boss.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times they leave a job because they don't want to be in that environment, and then they find themselves in a very similar environment, and those patterns kind of repeat themselves over and over again, and it's almost like unfortunate that the person that they're experiencing that issue with again is having to, I don't know, maybe respond to their cycle and the patterns that they've experienced from the previous trip.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: What's your what's your take on that?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, uh again, I mean, it is absolutely, I think, normal for people to experience the same pattern in different relationships because that's how it is.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like you experience you experience that if you don't change your pattern, the pattern will continue to be with you.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: No matter what relationship you have, whether in this job or the other job, it's uh uh that's why we always look at the dance, right?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: The dance is the pattern, and how you experience your emotions really tells you what kind of pattern you're going to be.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: And everything we're teaching you about emotions and the the triggers, raw spots in emotions is is understanding your pattern and the way you respond.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: So without that particular realization, self-awareness and work, you will continue to fall into that same pattern.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, absolutely.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, is it fair to the to the new team, for example, if you're joining the new team, is it fair to them that you're gonna bring the pattern?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, everybody brings their own pattern.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say you have a team that has gone through the EMC training and they understand the pattern, they understand the pursuit withdrawal behavior, and suddenly a new person joins that team, and they are exhibiting withdrawal pattern, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like they are shutting down, they don't talk.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: When people have the training, what happens is they can call out the cycle, they they can call out the steps, and they can also call out the impact it has on them and the attachment significance, because that is what it's all about, is when people are responding with their protection, that means in that moment their attachment needs go unmet, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: So they have lost the attachment significance in that particular relationship.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: For example, if the person, the new team member is shutting down, the the current team members can call out the cycle right away, early on, and say, look, you are very important to us.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: You're very important to us, you're important to this relationship.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: When you're shutting down, that means something is happening for you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: That is something is going on for you.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: And we have this process, we have the EMCD connection format that is part of our relationship uh building um uh process that we use.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: And we would like to understand what is happening for you, what what because you are important to us, and we want to make sure that um you are not alone in that experience.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: We care about you, you you're important to us.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we have to create an alliance and safety for the person to actually even share their experience.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: And we don't want to be in that cycle because we see that we're getting into a negative cycle.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's now nobody's a bad guy, you didn't do anything wrong, but it's very important for us that we understand something triggered you, something happening for you, and we want to help you to uncover and restore the connection and safety for you, and for us too, right?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's impacting everybody on the team.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that and that makes sense.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that you know, this is really important to understand when using the reconnection form and this process, because sometimes even you could be dealing with a client, right, or a customer who isn't understanding and may possibly be triggered by something going on in the company, and you know, maybe the way that they communicate their fears comes out in a way that could be aggressive or could, you know, cause discomfort for the person on that team or that's working at that job.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then if the person that has the process and understands the process can be communicating in that way, that's you know, helping to re-regulate and de-escalate the situation, it's very difficult for them to then like okay, ask the person for what they need when it's a customer, right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't think you would want to do that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: You would go to your manager or your team members, and then you ask them for what they need.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: But I think um as we continue, as people continue to use this process within the team, what happens is they start to recognize the attachment needs that people have underneath, and they start to communicate to that attachment need.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: So people, like you said, co-regulating their emotions, but they also recognizing what is going on for them so they don't get any more triggered by their response or their some some some like the words or the facial or inaction because they have a team member that they can turn to and get that reassurance for them to feel in balance so they can be there for the customer and for the client.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think also that's kind of similar, and maybe we word it like this for people who are listening that aren't necessarily familiar with this process yet.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of times when we do have a situation with a team member or a boss or a customer or a client and the response that they give us or the reaction they have can land on us.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we take it very personal, you know, when we take it personal, that's when we feel like we can get like thrown.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: I sometimes think of like getting thrown off balance like a scale, right?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can let's say you're walking a line, you can be kind of pushed aside and then get right back onto the line, or you can be like, you know, thrown off and now you're fallen onto the floor, and now someone has to help you back up and bring you back to the line.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that difference in the way that it affects us, I think that's what I see has been so helpful for me using the process.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I prior to learning the process, it would really impact me in a personal way, as though like I somehow felt responsible, you know, at fault, guilty, ashamed, and then kind of left guessing, okay.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I didn't really know what I did, but this is how I feel.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're kind of in that deep hole on your own, then you feel alone, and then you don't that's like being pushed to the side and you've fallen over, and you really need to take a lot of time.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: That becomes the distance that you're disconnected, right?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of time that you're disconnected to get back up.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think also that's where the phrase it you just need time or give it time came from, because people think, right, you think you've gotten fallen off, and then you can finally take the time to get back on or to think that you've moved past it or moved on, or you haven't really healed from the fall, the initial fall, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like learning the EMC process because you have an understanding and empathy for other people struggling, it is like you're like, ooh, like that hurt and impacted me in a negative way.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: But the empathy and understanding that you have for that other person helps you come back into balance a lot quicker, a lot faster than if you didn't have that or understand, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, like remember, we had that conversation on the podcast about I was working for the company for a very short period of time, and we had a customer That came in and was um you know under the influence like alcoholic or or he was had been drinking.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was a situation that impacted me, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't like I at that moment I could regulate and de-escalate the situation that was happening with the customer, but the manager really struggled to do that, you know?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: So so I I think you're making a very important point because um in our research of attachment, attachment has grown so much.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like we are looking at attachment lens now, not just for children and for parents or for even uh personal relationships.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: We're looking at attachment and it impacts all of our different relationships.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: And in the same way, it impacts our teams.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: So when teams become more securely attached, securely connected, they can deal with any difficulties because they are so much more stronger together when they have to address like an aggressive client or a customer or deal with changes in the in their structure of the company or in the economy.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you are no longer threatened to feel like you're dealing with these difficulties alone.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the beauty of attachment.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: As teams create more and more connection with each other and understanding on that vulnerable level, on a deeper level, um, on their sensitivity and allow each other to be there for each other, like you know, sharing your vulnerability in the moment when it's start it's hard and asking for what you need, the other person responds.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: That bond gives you the strength to deal with difficult situations.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you were not triggered by that customer because you have not you had a much more secure uh relationship in the beginning with your team, right?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: The manager struggled because of the fears came up because that manager did not have a secure attachment with his boss, yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right, so there were there were a lot of fears coming up in that moment, you know, what I'm going to do.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: And he did not know how to respond, how to react to the customer, how to attend to the customer.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: He did not know how to uh deal with the customer in a very collaborative or or friendly way.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: He just shut down and you know, he walked away basically from the scene.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I guess it also brings me back to people who don't have securely attached relationships with anyone in their life.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you have someone in the workplace that doesn't have anyone to talk with and doesn't have any ability to or even understanding of what that securely attached relationship looks like, then it's so foreign from what's normal for them.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's why I feel like it's so important for us to talk about how simple the process is.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: In one aspect, it's very simple.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: You just go through the steps.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Follow the steps one through eight, you know, and you can just duplicate that same steps over and over again with any issue that you're dealing with.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So in a way, it's very, very simple to learn how to use the process.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: The challenge comes from every situation that we've dealt with in our life leading up to the moment that we learn the EMC process has been completely different than using the EMC process, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's like okay, yes, it's just very simple, and yes, we know that it works 100% of the time.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's like bridging the you know, understanding of someone's belief system and experience in their entire life to believe that a process like this works.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I mean it it's definitely a new way of communicating, new way of being with people, and it's always it it takes practice, it's like dancing.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Where we've learned how to dance tango, right?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: We are now great tango dancers, we are now have become tango instructors, and now we have to teach the whole world how to dance tango.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: So definitely it's going to be uh interesting.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: What I find most interesting is that people still not connecting.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to help you so much if you do the form with a difficult situation.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'll give you an example.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: I worked with a team that they had a situation where one of the team members, now she wants to be a manager, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: And she was giving an opportunity to do a project.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: She did not want to do the project, but she did not know how to share why she didn't want to do the project.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: So the manager who gave her the opportunity to do this project got really upset, right?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Got really triggered.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: And um, he's talking to his colleagues, and they both kind of like getting more and more escalated against her.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how is it possible?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: She wants to be a manager.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: We gave her a project.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Can you believe it?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, you know, feel the negative cycle is kind of like blaming and judging and criticizing her.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: They've learned the EMC process, but they're not recognizing that they are getting more and more disconnected from this person by by not doing the form.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: So they come to my meet and they say, like, well, we we want you to do the EMC process with her.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, before we do it with her, what's happening with you?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: And at the beginning, it was interesting.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: In the beginning, before they actually like went to the emotions, they they they said, like, oh, I have these five triggers that really triggered me.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then they identified the rosbots, and you could tell, you could see how much more relaxed they are becoming as they go through the steps.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: And once they did the emotions, the image, the the bodily sensation, and their worst fears, boom, suddenly they start to recognize oh my gosh, maybe she didn't want to do the project because she was afraid to fail.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe she didn't want to do the project because she had a lot of on her plate.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe she didn't want to do the project because she has a lot of family situation, that she has a difficulty, or she has children, or whatever it is, personal issues.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: So suddenly they were so much more empathic to her because they had they had time to process what was happening for them.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, people need to recognize when you have a situation difficulty, just do the form, just trust the process, right?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then you can you can you can deal with uh the other situations and easily.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think also it becomes easier for the person to express what's happening with them, right?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: We just it's we have to get to the point where we're curious about why we do what we do and why we get triggered the way that we get triggered.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: But we can't be curious unless we understand we're in a cycle, right?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or that we're triggered.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I cannot tell you how many how many things they were planning to talk to her about.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: They wanted to give her feedback, they wanted to give her guidance, they wanted to tell her how terrible it was that she didn't want to do the project and why does she want to be a manager?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they were creating a big, big cycle.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's really, really amazing.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing that you know, the I was just thinking too, like, I can get triggered now and just recognize, like, okay, I don't know exactly what's going on with me, but I understand there's something happening, and I need to just be curious about really trying to dive into doing my side of the form so I can understand well, what exactly it is that I'm getting triggered by before I express it.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I had an incident this morning with someone, and they asked me, like, well, what's going on?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, like, I'm actually I said those exact same thing.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm not actually sure.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I would like to just be curious and understanding like what is happening with me because I don't know yet, but I know that there's something feeling off, like you know, I'm feeling some sort of way about it because I feel it physically.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: I and then I notice all those automatic thoughts and protective behaviors start to come up automatically.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then it's like, well, and then they said like, well, share with me.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, like, I actually don't want to because I don't want it to land in a missed message.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then if I don't share, right, but then then they're like, Well, I I don't want to feel like you can't tell me what's going on with you, right?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I can say, I do feel I can tell you.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanna make sure that I can process how I'm feeling, what my raw spots are, like what my trigger is, so that when it comes out, it comes out like in a way where the response could be like, Oh, just a positive cycle, instead of now there's like I'm sharing it from a blaming, shaming, criticizing, judging, whatever perspective, and they're like now responding and getting triggered from that, you know what I mean?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I said like I don't know what's going on, but I know something is going on.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, this is a great, even just to say I don't know what's going on is so important because it gives that person saying, Look, I don't know, I want to tell you, but I don't know what's happening with me.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: It gives you a lot more clarity than saying nothing, right?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: Just like the the the team that I was working, when finally when they finished the form, they said the biggest uh issue for us is that that manager didn't tell us what was happening for her, why didn't she want to take the project?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: That it creates a lot of um ambiguity for us, and that creates a lot of stress.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I'm glad you just said I don't know what's happening.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to tell you, I'm gonna figure it out.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna come back and tell you.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which is fantastic, which is great.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Well, I really um want you to know and feel reassured that I'm here when you're ready to share what's going on with you, that I'm here and I want to be there to help support, you know, whatever it is that you need emotionally.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, ideally we want to get to that point where we can be just can be triggered and still stay accessible, responsive, and engaged, and be able to stay curious about what's happening with us.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so important.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: I love this.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what a great episode for episode 100.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is such a huge accomplishment, Dr.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations on sticking to a hundred episodes.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's what nearly two or two and a half years, right?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: No, four years actually took us.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, four years!
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: We started our first podcast talking about the book, Emotional Connection.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's that was with Rameen Sarehi, my my co-author, and I think we should invite him back because uh we just finished our second edition of Emotional Connection, and it's going to come out on August 18th.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's a new published copy, and I'm very excited about it.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: That is amazing.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited, and thank you to all of our listeners for being so determined to learn how to work in a thriving environment and learn how to create connected relationships in the workplace with your coworkers, with your team, with your boss, and even at home.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paulina, and I co-host this podcast with amazing Dr.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Leader in You, brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: A reminder that you can go to our website, emcleaders.com, for more information on our training program that will change your life.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are an L and D trainer, if you're an HR, you're listening from a company and you need our support, you can find us at Lola at emcleaders.com or Polina at emcleaders.com.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, thank you so much.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: We love you and thank you.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: We hope to see you soon.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and we will see you guys next week, and thanks for watching.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's a joy to share these podcasts with you.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to check out our previous podcast and subscribe to join us at our next podcast of The Leader in You, brought to you by EMC Leaders taking care of the teams you care about.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Until then, be well and be focused on your relationships.