Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.509 : The Queen Of Cosmetic Chemistry , Dr Vega Chats All Things VGAM & Skincare Formulas

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E.509 : The Queen Of Cosmetic Chemistry , Dr Vega Chats All Things VGAM & Skincare Formulas · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll force a wrong.
• 0:05
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• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Journey across the expensive open world is sanctuary.
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• 0:30
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• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: I am such a fan of interviewing um truly extraordinary chemists and especially those that have so much experience under their belts and can really teach us about the true meaning of uh chemistry, especially cosmetic chemistry.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, I would love to introduce you guys to our guest of honor today, Miri Vega, Dr.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Miri Vega, who is not only um you know a seasoned chemist and a scientist, but she is also the founder of VGAM Skin Care.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to the show, uh Dr.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Vega.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm truly honored to host you.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a pleasure to be here.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's a it's a pleasure to host you.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't wait to dive in.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: I I would love to learn about you and your your journey in in chemistry and and the world of science and really what led to the creation of uh you know the brand and just everything.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: If you could walk us down memory lane.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, it is uh a walk through memory lane, actually.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the the my journey and vegans, uh vegan biomes journey is really, really interconnected.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: I've uh I've always always been passionate about chemistry.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Since I was a child, really, I I tried to understand the world around me.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: And uh as I became a teenager, I tried to understand my skin and what the you know was going on with it.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: And in the days uh I spent a lot of afternoons at uh the drugstore trying to, you know, read the labels and understand which ingredients could do what, and uh talking to dermatologists and trying on stuff, whether over the contour or or not, right?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think this is why I became a chemist.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't think I know this is why I became a chemist.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went on to do grad studies and a PhD, where I actually used microbes uh and microbial fermentations to obtain natural enzymatic extracts.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an enzymologist, uh subspecialty.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And at the time I really wanted to develop a line that made sense to me, that was natural, uh, but that was also effective.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um, while I don't think the market was ready and the ingredients certainly were not available.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I went on uh to get some experience in uh pharma and biotech, in nutraceuticals, cosmeceuticals, uh really did a 360.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned, I've always been passionate about understanding the world around us, and my world uh also include oncology, because I had many family members unfortunately affected by different types of cancer.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I tried to really understand again what was going on and being so passionate about the skin and its chemistry, I um ended up working on many different projects uh, you know, and on skin cancer, melanoma and carcinomas, and uh and um evolved into even immunology, which is not related uh uh to uh to oncology necessarily, but uh to psoriasis, for instance, and really got a 360, you know, like uh understanding on the skin and how it works and the entire systemic, you know, like uh working uh around and the biochemistry of it.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: And at the time uh where I landed in immunology, the discoveries on the microbiome were uh being made.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: And being uh such passionate about the chemistry of the skin, I was, oh, I think this is what was missing.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I start digging, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: I start digging on the skin microbiome, and very few are looking into that specifically.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: So rapidly became, you know, like connected with uh the leaders, the experts in the field, and uh started doing research on it.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: And and really like this is when I started developing uh vegan biome because I knew I had elements now that made sense, that worked together, and that could uh that could deliver.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's uh the whole journey.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the really key, I guess, uh element uh that uh triggered the development of vegan biome really was uh was when my daughter actually uh started struggling with her her skin as a teenager.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um and I was like trying to tell her, okay, well, maybe we'll do this, we'll do that.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, 30 years after my own struggles, I uh I was repeating what I had tried that had worked, right?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh this is really the catalyst of of vegan biome because I I I I connected at that in that moment everything I knew and the experience I had to you know start developing the brand that that I thought would make sense for our family, our lifestyle, not only for her skin uh dysbiosis, so so so the the disbalances, but also for my own skin as you know, like a mature or maturing person where you know like everybody wants to look their best, right?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to feel uh good also in their own skin.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the story of vegan biome.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: I absolutely love that.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I there's a lot of things that I, you know, that you touched upon that I would love to um learn more about because you know, one of the most fascinating things you said was this concept of oncology tied with immunology.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I know you had mentioned that what it wasn't very much at the time linked up, but now that we're really coming into this field, I mean, I myself am very involved, very much involved in oncology research and you know, especially immunocology.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's a budding field that is so relevant to skin health now that you know it it really shocks me sometimes when I look at the data and I see how you know we have missed the mark so much, you know, when it comes to analyzing what really contributes to the formation of malignant versus and also non-malignant skin cancers, you know.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, with that being said, when you had mentioned the microbiome, and immediately I connected the docs there because these days, as I'm sure you know, you know, a lot of people are focusing on sequencing the microbiome, and which I find to be uh truly futile if I'm honest, because I I don't think people are understanding that there is, you know, your microbiome is like a thumbprint, you know, it's different for everybody.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, the what exists on your skin will not be the same as what exists on somebody else's skin.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so to understand the mechanism of dysbiosis itself is a very, very difficult topic, but there are certain things that can, I think, be utilized from a chemical perspective that can help in the aid of natural fluor growing properly or like, you know, being regulated properly.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, I I really see a lot of companies that do too much.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's really the point I'm trying to make.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like they go too far with it.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I find your I find what you said to be very interesting in the sense that you know that you really started looking to this.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: Now, one of my biggest questions for you is um, what about the micro, you know, the microbiome, sorry, as a chemist and from the chemistry perspective, really kind of, I think, you know, you could call was your first aha moment or your moment of just, oh my gosh, you know, I had no idea that this is how it was.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what was that?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: Can you share that with us?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like an experience you may have had in the lab or wherever, you know.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, this is such a great question.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many things to say.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um right, so I I I appreciate everything you mentioned.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: I agree, absolutely.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many details and and and complications into uh the study of the microbiome itself.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really complex.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: But what I try to do as a scientist and as an entrepreneur, really, and uh in my daily life, really, is is to go to the commonalities.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: There are, you know, thumbprints, but there are a lot of commonalities.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So so this is the first aspect.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think these are the aspects as well uh where you would find ha-ha moments.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: You never find aha, you know, like information in in the details that don't apply to anybody, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or just to one person.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: You really find the ha-has in those that apply to many.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and this is what I try to do, like, you know, look at okay, what's common, uh, what's uh um what's helpful.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh in terms of the microbiome, one simple, simple element, you know, to start with is the use of soap and its effect on on the microbiome and how detrimental it is to the skin.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And overwashing is is actually worse than not washing, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: So these are big, big elements, so especially for a family that's prone to acne, you know, as you know, like with teens, uh you you would assume, and it's in true kind of also became, you know, sort of you know, common knowledge, and and you know, everybody knows you should clean up as much as you can, you know, like your acne, which is actually not the case, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so so this was a big moment.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I come uh again from you know a background where I tried to figure out the world, and even as a kid, you know, like outside in in a country where I had uh you know parents that would tell me I don't understand, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like we we we lived on a farm and everything was great, right?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't connect uh, you know, until much later that, well, actually, you know, like washing and uh destroyed part of our microbiome.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So this was one of the the big aha moment for me and how we use and how we approach the microbes and and this protective barrier because I I really see the skin as a one skin type.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh what the human skin, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I focus on the commonalities, how the skin works, and I really think we went too far into the different skin types.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's like for me and our approach uh to formulation and the products that we provide is meant for the one skin type approach.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, of course, our products are adaptable, you can adjust proportions to your specific skin needs because that those needs change almost daily, you know, depending on our metabolism, our system, the way we react to the environment, but also our uh metabolisms, our hormonal system, and uh, you know, the microbes on our skin also react to that metabolism.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So taking that into account, you know, like you have to have products that are adaptable, that you can dose in a way, you know, like to those specific changes uh that occur daily.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so so as a as a chemist, you mentioned uh, you know, like I also had the privilege, the privilege to work with microbes when I did my PhD.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I I knew how to make them grow healthily and to make that them thrive and how to feed them to actually, you know, like grow them and then to obtain enzymes and extracts that were uh healthy in a way.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: So um so this is what we also combined into uh you know, into our thought process and our approach and philosophy to to formulation.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, I actually want to uh focus on that topic that you brought up, which is this idea of creating a you know a more universal approach to the microbiome.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's actually more relevant than a lot of the things I see where, you know, I'm don't get me wrong, I'm all about customization in every aspect, right?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like as a scientist, of course, you know, we nerd out about customization and all different things.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, when it comes to the microbiome, again, you know, I really stand behind this idea of really what you were saying, which is there are certain things that we have to be mindful of, you know, and those certain things are really, if you keep in mind, what is it that makes your normal flora grow and thrive and make sure that it does not allow for bad bacteria to overpopulate and take over, those are things such as nutrients, those are things such as skin prep, you know, the right pH balance, the right, you know, the environment, the right amount of hydration, the right amount of, you know, uh prevention of transeptomeral water loss, those kind of things.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that if we can really nail that down first and foremost, the idea of this microbiome being at the center of, you know, the skin, brain, gut, liver, whatever axis, you know what I mean, it's gonna, it's gonna make more sense.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because right now, where I'm standing, you know, from a science perspective, what I'm noticing is that we have a lot of data, okay, but we're not able to tie it together.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I really believe the reason we're not able to tie that together is because we're taking samples from specific areas of the body instead of looking at it from this holistic standpoint, which is kind of like I think what you were saying, you know, when you said the one-screen approach and really seeing it for what it is, which is just that it's a dance of the right nutrients and the right chemicals, you know, on your skin, especially when it comes to topical skincare.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: I love that your approach is centered around that, you know.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's it's meaningful to have that approach.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and and honestly, you know, like it's not, I don't think the skin microbiome will ever be the central uh, you know, like aspect of the axis.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I really still think, you know, the whole body as a uh, you know, like itself is the center, especially the gut one, uh, it does provide, you know, like lots of the systemic uh uh immunology and um and but but at the same time, you know, like the skin being an organ and the largest organ on the body, it's it's a very important component, of course.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it and being exposed to external environments, right, as well.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I see the skin as being this double armor where you have the microbiome that's actually protecting in a way the organ itself, you know, the chemistry of it, and I'm I'm talking about the biochemistry of of the skin.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's these elements, there's the the watery elements or those components that are more um that need more water, and then there's this oily component, those elements that really make up the structure and and and the um uh the the suppleness of the skin.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's the microbes, right, that need specific food that they take either on the skin or that we can provide, you know, to help it grow, you know, but as as you mentioned, holistically, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's really commonalities as to the needs of uh different microbes.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we do know, right, that it's not in the details that we will um necessarily win, uh, you know, like have the biggest wins.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's really in the the in the generalities.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: So by feeding uh the microbes and helping them grow maximally and as you know, as plentiful as possible, we know that this provides a better protection and that the composition of those microbes is not as important.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is, but you know, the first focus should be really, as you mentioned, to provide the environment for those microbes in general to grow, you know, and at a right pH, you really encourage some microbes more than others.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And fortunately, it's also a great pH for the skin, chemistry, it's on, you know, biochemistry chemical functions.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really made to work together, uh, all of it.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And uh for me, this is, you know, it really became a second passion uh when when we start digging into that aspect.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's incredible uh uh the information that can be provided, but it is tricky.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: You are right, uh, because there's so much information that we can get out of uh you know what's uh uh what's composing one person versus another.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we know the influences of our genes, but also of our environment on on those microbes.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, yes, 100% agree with you.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, my my next question really is to dive into the formulations of um your products because um, you know, as we had mentioned, there are these like fundamental, you know, hallmarks that we want to maintain in terms of you know optimal skin environment for that my normal microflora to thrive in.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so I would love for you to walk us through some things that you found from a chemistry and a molecular perspective that were allowing that to be uh you know an environment that we could create on our skin topically.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: So if you could walk us through maybe uh a few of the ingredients on your inky list for, you know, uh, for example, like a clean your cleanser, uh, you know, your treatment, and whatever you want to mention.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um first I started with uh uh what I called the the go-to duo.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a D solution uh that I think uh uh is bringing the most innovation to the space.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um we really focused on um making sure the three elements that I mentioned before were present uh and that worked well together.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: So the first aspect you you mentioned it uh was pH, because pH is our both from the skin's perspective and from the microbial uh populations perspective.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we really uh optimized the pH and made sure that uh the products worked well at that pH, but also the cleanser was developed later on to uh to complement uh that pH.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we really worked with the pHs of the two, which are different, to make sure that we protect those essential elements from the skin, but that we can also you know cleanse properly without uh too uh too much disturbance.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the first element.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Then obviously there's the microbes.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So microbe, there's different strategies.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: There's the pre the postbiotics, so there's a few ingredients that are key in in that uh formulations.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned, I grew microbes in the lab.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously, you know, like I made sure that the microbes had you know like a good nutrient base, but you know, fuss and gust, like the the polysaccharides are super important for for those uh uh microbes and uh as well yellinuric acid.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: We know that this is uh super ingredient, and I'll talk uh a bit more about it in a few minutes, but but um but for the microbes it's it's a really uh essential one as well.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we did that for the microbes.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: We listed all the key ingredients, those that we could not uh that you know, like were a must, and those that were well perhaps depending on the others.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then we went on to do the same for uh the skin.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Itself and the skin has, as I mentioned, the oily component and the water component, and that they it interact.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we need to make sure that the water, the hydration level, stays optimal for those biochemical functions to operate, but also that the oil component that we're supplementing to the skin for those that don't necessarily produce enough sebum or oils on the skin, that um it would uh recreate an you know an optimal environment for also the other two elements.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we, in terms of water, of course, we had hyalineric acid.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: In our case, we put more than one type.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: So to make sure that the uh water content would really be optimized in the skin.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um for the oil components, well, we used different types of oils that would reproduce the fatty acid profiles of the sibum as closely as we could.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we also added ceramides and uh and the like so that the um the skin was really uh supplemented properly in terms of uh oils and lipids.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: So this was uh really our approach to make sure that not only my my daughter's balance again was great and optimized, but my own, where uh you know I tend to produce a little a little bit less uh you know oils, but also that I want to prevent the signs of aging, which is uh uh really uh in terms of uniformity and the texture of the skin.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: This is you know the level that we can we can really act on.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what we did, and uh we're really proud of what it you know like got us to because we see real benefits.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: We ski we see the skin, and we've had lots of uh uh well, we did a small clinical trial, but we also have like lots of uh of uh testimonies to that effect that people really feel their skin healthy and they feel you know like their skin healthier, which is uh at the end of the day, what uh what is most important for uh uh for the skin.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: No, I love that.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's that's so so wonderful that you were able to outline that for us.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, for everyone listening, I'm gonna make sure that we um outline those points that Dr.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Rega has mentioned here, you know, for quick reference in the uh concept art for this episode.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: But Dr.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Rega, I want to ask you, you know, um, now that you you told us about that, I I really want to know what your opinion is about, for example, you know, in dermatology, there's so many patients with acne, but then we talk about, you know, there are these subcategories of acne, you know, obviously I'm sure you've heard of like cystic acne, fungal acne, you know, um bacterial acne.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's so many different types.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: So what has your experience been or any feedback you might have gotten from any consumers or whatever, you know, the the data pointed at when it comes to the treatment of these different types of acne?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: And does that, you know, is there a commonality in how we approach the microbiome to be able to, you know, really treat all these different types?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: Or is there something that we need to like reconsider when it comes to different types of acne?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, likely, yes, absolutely.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the first thing I absolutely need to mention, obviously, you know, I'm not a dermatologist, uh, so I would never uh aim at treating uh acne.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to balance the skin and uh uh hopefully, you know, like to uh lessen its its impact.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it works really well for mild cases of acne.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: If uh if you're having uh really uh um more aggressive forms, uh consultation is a must.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there are efficient medications, as you would know uh really well uh for those that are more aggressive.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: So so the uh there's a limit to what we can do.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: We are a skincare uh that that's a line that's made made to be used daily, right?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like it's a go-to formulation so that you're maintaining the health of your skin and optimizing the balance.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but it unfortunately has its limit.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a pharmaceutical uh formulation.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: We really wanted to work on the prevention side, uh, in the sense that I do believe that some small disbalances can be um you know counteracted uh upon quickly.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: However, you know, for those that are really uh more severe would need uh specific pharma treatment.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and and we go back to uh you know the world that I lived in for many years in oncology, uh, where uh we looked at developing treatment in for many of those uh uh diseases uh that were caused originally by environmental factors, which were uh yes, environment directly, but the environment in their uh bigger in the bigger sense where uh maybe the way what we eat, what uh you know, where we live, uh our uh work may affect uh you know our general health and cause these uh mutations uh to accumulate over time, right?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so we know we know that uh close to 80 percent you know like of those uh uh different types of cancers can somehow be prevented.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: They could if we lived in a pure environment, but we don't.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: So right, so we try to maximize, and we've all heard of those stories of people that live super healthy lives and and um still develop some side, you know, so some some sort of of uh of mutation or or tumors or you know, so so it's really difficult to control uh with our lifestyle.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, it is what it is.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have to you know deal uh deal with it and cope.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and I I see big parallel with uh what skincare can offer uh and and uh severe uh disease, I would say, right?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there are some diseases uh of the skin, uh like psoriases that are systemic, you know, like you may do something on your skin, but still the the the cause of it, the root cause is not at the level of the skin.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: So so you will need to work on on these other aspects.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's no way for just a simple formulation to be able to support that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: It is it is holistic as well.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: You will have to, you know, sleep well, uh, lower stress, but also, you know, like in terms of you know syndromes that are really due to internal cascades uh or immunological gascade that may relate more to the gut than than the skin, even if the symptoms uh are are at the level of the skin.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's a that's a that's a great way to to word it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I appreciate your response.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I completely agree with you.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think that it's definitely something that um, yeah, you're right.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's a case-by-case thing.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I think with the microbiome, again, you know, it's it's something that we do have to approach with this understanding of, you know, um, although we can balance the most commonly found bacteria on skin surface, I mean, when it comes to really, you know, severe uh conditions and and things that are more, I guess, personalized, you know, in terms of how they're affecting you.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not something that's uh known to the common consumer.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, for example, you know, I'd mentioned fungal acne, not a huge subset of uh people get fungal acne, you know.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: So when you do have something like that, it's better to go to your dermatologist and you know really figure out what's going on and and rather than just assume that it's like everybody else's acne.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I I hear what you're saying and I I agree with you.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: I just think that it's it's important for people to have a realistic understanding of like what we can do with skincare products versus not, you know, in terms of like, um, you know, I think that when it comes to microbiome-based lines like such as yours, I think the real um uh selling point here is that you want a formulation or a set of formulations that are gonna bring your natural state and physiology back to homeostasis.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that act on its own by bringing your skin to homeostasis from a topical perspective is going to, you know, eventually lead to different cascades being activated, different molecular pathways being activated, and then your skin will self-regulate.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, that that component of self-regulation is really, I think, what um when I look at the microbiome and I and I see it being applied to cosmoceuticals, I think that what it really is doing is you're giving it a jump start, you know, you're giving it that right environment to like kick off and do what it needs to do.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then the rest of the processes are gonna be taken over by the skin, you know, and it's gonna do what it needs to do to regulate itself.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what a lot of consumers kind of miss the mark on because unfortunately, with this plethora, you know, I find this to be so annoying in our industry where you know one concept comes out and then everyone's got a line around it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's like we we're now dealing with epigenetics, and it's like every single person now is saying, Oh, yeah, I got a brand for epigenetics.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I can make something for epigenetics.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like we don't need that, you know, we need a few good people who have the training and the science and the scientific training to do what it needs to be done.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's why I gravitate so much towards your line and I gravitate so much towards what you've created here because you have the science and you have the education to back up what you've done, you know, instead of just somebody XYZ saying, Hey, I read a paper about the microbiome.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let me make a formula, you know what I mean?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like absolutely.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: I agree, I agree so much, you know, like that there's uh uh there's a lot of ingredients that are microbiome friendly.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's true, they are microbiome friendly, but it's the whole that needs to be microbiome friendly.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you know, like that one ingredient will not do the trick.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: It needs to be, you know, uh from a very uh understanding and and scientific approach where, you know, like you really think of the different ingredients in your formulation so that the whole makes sense and works together.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because really the microbes on on your skin are there, you know, and to live in symbiosis and to provide benefits.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: They do when they when they are, we know that they protect against premature aging and they they do protect against disbalances.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: But to do that, they have, you know, the formulations have to be um coherent and and and symbiotic themselves to uh to work well together.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Now, one thing I want to ask you, Dr.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: Vega is um one problem I've seen with a lot of other um microbiome products is you know, this idea of like there's this filmy texture to the formulations, you know, in terms of like, you know, when you apply something and it like peels off or it pills very easily?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: I find that to be very common in so many um brands that are saying we're microbiome-based, you know, we're uh et cetera, et cetera.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I I'm trying to ask, you know, from the chemistry perspective, you know, how is that in terms of formulating a you know, a product that is made for the microbiome?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, is that a problem that you see in the lab like very frequently or it or could that be avoided?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how and if so, how do you avoid it?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: So um for us, well, there's three you you probably know this, but uh, you know, there's three approaches big picture to feeding or supporting your uh microbiota.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: The first one is the prebiotics, very similar to the gut microbiota.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: You you really feed uh good nutrients to uh your uh your microbes, inulin, the polysaccharides, uh, oligo uh polysaccharides like fossil guts are really great at doing that, right?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um then you have the probiotics approach, very similar again to the gut.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: You uh feed uh more active bacteria.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then this is where the tricky part comes in.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's the postbiotic approach.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: The postbiotic, you mentioned it, it's recreating the environment so that the microbes can thrive thrive really.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: The pH is you know a component, but uh even cell debris, inactivated uh uh cell structures of bacteria, lactic acid, you know, these are elements that really support the post, you know, the environment of uh the microbes that are on your skin and help them grow and reproduce.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: So um so these for us now, the the formula uh formulas we have that are really the day-to-day use is uh focusing on the pre- and the postbiotic.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: And these don't really cause you know any issue.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in terms of formulation, you know, what causes an issue is the other ingredients that may interact with your microbes themselves.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what you have to watch for.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: However, in terms of the probiotic approach to skin, you have to make sure that these microbes stay active.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where you know the chemistry of it takes uh um uh takes over.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's really important.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's encapsulation strategies, uh, and there's oil-based strategies, basically uh glycerol or you know, that are not uh, you know, including water uh so that you're not gonna activate your uh the microbes that you're adding, uh adding to to the formulation, and then uh you will be able to uh uh to keep that activity uh when uh you deliver the product.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: The issue with that is that um while you don't get the water, you know, and these elements that need to be dissolved uh in in water, so um so you're missing some elements that are essential to the skin, and uh and then that's why you get also get uh a weird consistence uh and uh texture of your products.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: If that answered the yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, no, that definitely did.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I I completely understand that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it makes sense also because you know, when you're dealing with like I I think of it like, you know, you you're more of the chemistry side, I'm more of the biology or side, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I think of it like uh, you know, when you're putting uh, for example, like there's different, you know, things you can use.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: You can use either like the medium in which you grow something, or you can have, you know, the actual growth, uh, the colonies themselves, you know, in a petri dish, or you can have uh the media on which or the you know the petri dish uh uh gel that they're sitting on, you know what I mean?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like three different things and they're all gonna feel different, they're all gonna behave different, you know.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and it's something that I think we all should understand as we're approaching microbiome products, because I know that a lot of people say, you know, well, I can't layer this with lists, or I can't, you know, put this on this.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it's I think it's more of an understanding of chemistry at that point.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: And um I see I I find that consumers are are still very lost with really trying to, you know, decode that those chemical names and you know, the organic chemistry names and what they mean and what you know, what is it gonna do if I use this serum with this moisturizer?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is it gonna have an effect?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: Is it gonna cancel out?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's something I I would love for you to address as well, is like, you know, when it comes to formulas that are um like, for example, yours, you know, with the VGAM, like, is there anything that we can do that would cancel out any of the components or ingredients, or is it pretty much good to go, you know, in terms of layering and all that?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a very excellent question, especially for me, because that's what we focus on.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: We focus on simplicity and peace of mind.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is really what I wanted for myself, my family, my friends, uh, because we were in this spiral of trying different products that worked for a while or didn't work because we didn't uh use them properly, or you know, like we had to layer, or you know, we're we're really, really all busy, but we all want the best uh you know possible care for our skin.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: So my my uh goal was really to have all and all of the ingredients that the skin would, you know, benefit from in one formulation.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said at the beginning, I I wasn't able to do that in just one, but I was able to do it in two products that I used at the same time, but simultaneously.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason why I uh split the ingredients into two is so that you could combine them in different proportions depending on the changing skin uh skin's needs.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: So evidently when I formulate, I mean it took uh quite a few uh trials uh for this, and uh we there's uh ingredients we decided, okay, we're we're gonna exclude this one, but we're gonna replace with that one, because there were elements that we uh we would not compromise on.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: And there were others that, you know, like if it's one antioxidant or the others, it was super important to have antioxidants, more than one source, but uh we didn't need absolutely the vitamin C.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: What we wanted was the antioxidant role and function.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why vitamin C we excluded, because it did create some issues in terms of formulations.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Not that it's not a great ingredient, it's a great ingredient, but it's not one that is irreplaceable, contrary to you know, some uh some others.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, if your uh your um formulation is based on vitamin C, for you the formulation is you know like essentially composed of vitamin C, it's really, really important.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, my uh our our brand was you know like designed so that you wouldn't have to think oh, I have to add this or I have to add that, and you know, because it was uh certainly very confusing for uh for many of our groups and uh when we did focus groups uh as well, right?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um so we really, really included everything that the skin would need and made sure that it was possible to only use that solution, so the go-to duo, the two products uh together and have the complete absolute care.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really simple to use, but you have all of the ingredients.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we had to do, you know, uh uh a few switches around to make sure that the functions on the skin were were all being uh satisfied.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: And we discovered uh that we really needed to educate as well.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: So not only do we have the formulations that are made and we have the products design, but we also have to explain and educate on why these ingredients should not be in here or why these ingredients should really be, and which ones, you know, like you can you can uh maybe uh subsidize or you know, like uh switch around.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: So so um so the a key element for us anyway is not only to provide uh the the products themselves, but a solution, and that solution includes uh education, because I do think that's a real issue nowadays to to be understanding why you're doing something for your skin and what makes sense and what maybe doesn't uh uh make sense as much.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: So um so we've created uh even Cheat Sheet where you have the no-no list of ingredients to avoid.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and these are quite you know like common now, right?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: We we know most of them, but uh in terms of irritants and allergens, there may not be as common, uh common knowledge.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: And these actually are causes of some types of dermatitis and uh and eczema.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: So so interesting to know that there are classes of ingredients that uh that can actually uh if um if avoided make your uh skin healthier.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh there are some, and we call them the O Yes uh ingredients.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a list of ingredients like to absolutely include, and then what we do, we do list the names of those uh ingredients and what how you would find them in a formulation, because sometimes you would, you know, for most people anyway, you read a uh formulation, uh the inky uh in the back of uh of a product, and you think all of that is synthetic, where you know it's actually natural formulation.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: But but you know, like it's really hard to understand.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's harder than ingredients uh for food, but it shouldn't be.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's the skin, right?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: So how can you you understand your labels basically?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what we tried to uh to do as well.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: I really love that.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Dr.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: Riga, I've really enjoyed chatting with you, and I'm I'm a huge fan of your work.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're really you know making some strides here in the industry and and bringing us products that we really don't get to see very often, you know.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I'm a huge fan of you know trailblazers and change makers.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I really applaud you for your work and also, of course, for you know coming on the show and and educating us because you know knowledge is power, and uh, you know, I I truly believe in that.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for your time and and your knowledge.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh well, thank you.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: That means a lot because I think the same of you and your show.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's absolutely excellent, uh, right?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so Dr.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Ikta, absolutely.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: And my pleasure and uh uh very happy to have uh spoken to you today.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: Likewise, and for everyone listening, please, I really urge all of you to chime in, keep this conversation going.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, leave us your thoughts, your questions, comments um for Dr.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: Vega's team.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: We'll definitely pass them along if you uh send them our way.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: But for now, we will leave you with this.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope you guys love the episode.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: And if you did, make sure to leave us that uh rating, uh, the five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Podcast, wherever it is that you tune in to the show.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: It means the world to us and it really helps us grow as a podcast and get out there.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: So we would really, really appreciate that.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I will be back next time.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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