Latest / The Undercut Podcast / Are Mercedes Giving Up - 2023 Saudi Arabia F1 Grand Prix Preview

Transcript

Are Mercedes Giving Up - 2023 Saudi Arabia F1 Grand Prix Preview · The Undercut Podcast

0:00
You've got a problem, change your fucking car.
0:03
And I think that Russell and Wolf are correct when they say they need to start from scratch.
0:11
Hello and welcome to the Undercut Podcast, I'm your host Jesse Billington. We're back to preview,
0:17
preview, preview, we've got our sanity's already gone, preview this weekend's Saudi Arabian Grand
0:23
Prix. Joining me as ever are the cheese and pickle to my ploughman's Ellie May Taylor and
0:28
Thiemo Albers-Daly. How are you both? I'm good and oh my days if this is how
0:33
we start the podcast with you then we're in for a fun preview.
0:36
It's been a busy Monday. And I'm good thank you. How are you?
0:41
Yeah, not shabby, not shabby at all really. A bit tired but yeah I think I'm ready to talk
0:47
Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. I think I'm eager to get on with it and discuss what the hell Haas happened.
0:53
Are we going into my big thought of the year? Yeah I figured we should sort of probably go
0:58
with the big thought of the year and then see what happens. At least the editing for this is
1:02
going to be easy because there'll be these massive gaps between everything. Yeah well see and Ellie
1:07
May hit us with your big thought of the year. Is this the one thought we're getting from you
1:10
this year or are there going to be others later down the line? There may be others but this is
1:16
the first of big ones that I've been thinking about for possibly the last week and a bit now.
1:26
And it's that say Aston Martin are on the rise they end up beating Mercedes. At what point do
1:35
Mercedes turn around and say we're no longer going to provide you with an engine, find a new one?
1:42
I suppose they've got to see out their contract haven't they? Well because contracts mean so much
1:47
in Formula One Jesse. Yeah you can buy people out of contract but there's going to be there's
1:51
going to be to a certain extent there's going to be a contract to which it has to happen. But when
1:58
when's that contract up? Is it year by year? Yeah no because usually like you sign a few years with
2:05
the engine supplier. Let's have a quick google. Why can you not tell him this stuff beforehand
2:11
so he doesn't google mid podcast. You can then get the tippy-tappy noise of the keyboard.
2:16
Aston Martin. This isn't an ASMR podcast. It should be. It shouldn't be not with you involved. Ellie
2:23
maybe I'm rolling myself out for that one straight away but let's get you out of that straight off
2:27
Jesse. Because it whilst Jesse's looking it up it's kind of like the situation Red Bull is in
2:33
in that they sort of no one wants to provide them with an engine because they're fighting against
2:40
them. So if Aston Martin then becomes sort of on a similar level level as them no one's going to
2:47
want to provide an engine for them. I kind of hope it does happen at some point though because it would
2:52
actually make the engine manufacturers more exciting when that comes into play in 26 because
2:56
at the moment we get all these names saying they're joining and we're like eh not too bothered about
3:01
it. It's not like it's an actual team whereas this it could be spicy then because if they
3:05
really need an engine and that's where a bulk of their performance is coming from then it'll be
3:09
it could be a fun spanner in the works but I don't think they'd do anything this year.
3:13
There would nothing that would come in place this year because you can't really do it maybe next year
3:16
the earliest would be when it could actually be implemented but even then by that point it could
3:21
also be a bit too late you might as well see what you can do if you're Mercedes in terms of
3:28
turnaround and maybe that's the challenge an extra challenge you want because you're like yeah okay
3:31
they beat us with their own things and now let's try and for 24 take it back from them and show
3:36
them yeah that doesn't happen two years in a row or some kind of you know what they're like
3:44
I could see it happening at the same time. Well Mercedes have said that they're potentially
3:50
looking at withdrawing their sales of power units because they're not making substantial amounts of
3:55
money from it essentially because they've got to provide for Aston Martin, Williams and McLaren at
3:59
the moment there's not a huge revenue from it and it's taking up a huge amount of time
4:02
so they might have to look at who they're allocating engines to which will be interesting
4:09
and Aston Martin and Williams have both spoken to other people about getting engines. I know Aston
4:16
Martin at one point were in conversation with Audi when Audi were looking at joining which they are
4:20
now doing obviously so there's a possibility that a few years down the line maybe 2026 Aston Martin
4:27
will swap to using Audi power units. I'll put a question to both of you then if you could
4:34
if you were obviously somehow the one with the power at Aston Martin if you were Lawrence Stroll
4:39
who if you take Audi out of it which company would you want to supply your engines for you?
4:44
I'd go Porsche because they were so close to getting a deal with Red Bull that they must...
4:49
Williams Porsche is a much sexier idea no? Williams Porsche is because of course you have
4:54
Porsche road cars with Williams engines in them. I don't know I think if I was Aston Martin I'd be
5:04
looking at probably buying in I think I'd definitely go down the Audi route it might seem boring because
5:10
it's the one that... I said you can't have Audi that's why I was avoiding this. I can't have Audi I'm gonna go to
5:17
I think I'm gonna try and get Renault then Renault Alpine engines. Interesting. Or Aston Martin start
5:28
making their own. We don't know what's going on inside Lawrence's big shed there could be room for
5:34
developing an engine. As long as it's not by him then. Does Lawrence Stroll just sort of sat at a
5:41
big table with a piece of paper and a pencil going right an engine. I don't know if you can
5:46
see it. The reason he's got all these really short board meetings is so he can get back into the shed
5:51
and start like I've got to figure out how to make this bloody engine. He sat there with sort of a
5:55
stripped down lego sort of the v6 from the lego mclaren and is sort of going well can we just make
6:00
that bigger? Does that work? Yeah that was kind of my food for thought this past week because I was
6:08
sort of looking at the Red Bull Ford situation and how over the years Red Bull have sort of struggled
6:14
keeping an engine manufacturer and how no one really wants to supply them that are already in
6:20
F1 and I thought are Aston Martin then going to have those sorts of problems if they get big?
6:26
Is that Martin Honda? Just because Honda are trying to come back in another different way.
6:34
The key thing to remember though is Mercedes as a road car company, Mercedes Holdings overall
6:40
owns an extortionate amount of Aston Martin the road car company so it's going to take a huge
6:47
business shift for those two to separate and then obviously the F1 tires go with it.
6:53
Like the new Aston Martin Vantage is little more than a gussied up SL Mercedes
6:58
so there's this huge engineering tie on the road that you're going to have to unpick and untwine.
7:04
Speaking of one of the greatest Formula 1 teams of the modern era they seem to be the split team
7:11
as well at the moment and with Hamilton saying that the team didn't listen to him enough and
7:16
Russell and Wolf saying that they need to start from scratch and then they posted some absolutely
7:20
bitch-made apology to fans on social media apologizing for the fact they didn't do well
7:25
enough. I've got to say the social media for them this year has been a bit off. They've changed a
7:30
few things around. I'm not a big fan of it to be perfectly honest about it. It looks a bit,
7:35
it just looks a bit an F. Something about their media presentation doesn't seem...
7:39
It was a lot better last year and the year before but this year just I don't know
7:43
something just seems off. It is all slightly weird and to write off a whole season just after one
7:49
race where you didn't do that badly and it's also that case of without going too deep it's life.
7:59
We all go through ups and downs. She went there straight away.
8:04
So Mercedes were never always going to be at the top. You're always going to have sort of
8:15
not necessarily a fall but you are at some point going to have a bit of a trip in this instance.
8:22
It feels like more of a trip and to give up like you say on it it does seem a bit...
8:26
You can see why especially pre-Ziv Aston Martin and a few of the other teams not making quite as
8:32
much progress obviously because they're not as much further up but you can see progress being made but
8:37
to write it off seems a bit silly as well but then Hamilton's saying if they'd listen to it a bit more
8:42
maybe we'd be further ahead and it just seems to go a bit... I don't know.
8:47
It's very odd.
8:48
I don't understand why you'd have this waiver of confidence.
8:50
On Mercedes.
8:51
It's very on Mercedes. I can understand why you'd have this waiver of confidence
8:54
but they've tried essentially this car last year. They have an entire season with the data
9:02
for essentially this style of car aerodynamically. It doesn't work. They know this now after a season.
9:08
They know that under testing and under a race weekend conditions that the changes they've made
9:14
to said car do not work. Certainly not to the extent they want it to. They know that essentially
9:19
what they've done is narrowed down the things they can change on this car till they've been left with
9:23
what's clearly the side pods. It's the only thing that's so radically different from everything else
9:28
and that seems to be the only thing that they've now got left to change which is such a key structural
9:33
and aerodynamically integral part of the car that when they say start from scratch doesn't mean
9:38
they're going back to putting a giant straight-A engine in the front and a driver in the back with
9:42
a prop shaft running between his legs. They're not going back to a 1950s racing car but they are going
9:47
to have to go back to the drawing boards and think of a different way to aerodynamically engine it
9:51
and cool the car because that's a key part of what happens with the side pods is not only do they
9:56
start at the top end of the skirts that create the downforce you've obviously got all the internals,
10:02
the cooling systems running through there. It's a key element to try and get right for both cooling
10:06
for reliability purposes but also because of where you're funneling the aerodynamics out the back of
10:10
those. What you're doing with the different pressures of hot and cold air running through them
10:14
and how they exit the rear of the car and what either wake or downforce they'll provide running
10:18
through a diffuser. It's such an integral and central piece of the car that you can't just
10:24
simply swap it because you need to get that air funneled into it with the right front wing with
10:28
the right suspension blades then you also need to get that taken out the correct way with the
10:31
correct rear diffuser with the correct rear brake drums and the kowsing and with the correct rear
10:35
wing. There's so many things that if you change that middle element it totals your entire design
10:40
and that's why they're going to have to go for this clean sheet design. Hamilton seems to believe
10:45
that there is a possibility to extract something more from this car and potentially through all of
10:48
the different iterations he tried last year he was their test bunny last year. He tried so many
10:53
different front wing and setup changes and different elements across the season. He's
10:58
clearly found a small inkling of something in it that works but potentially it's in those smaller
11:03
elements as opposed to the side pod based design. They might be able to transpose those weird things
11:07
they tried with to try and make the side pods work to a new car with a more conventional side
11:13
pod design. They might work there but the key thing is that the current overall design of that
11:18
Mercedes does not work and I think that Russell and Wolf are correct when they say they need to
11:22
start from scratch but to go back to the media thing and the presentation thing Mercedes it feels
11:28
like it's sort of stumbled and it's struggling to try and find its feet again because everything
11:34
about it seems to be sort of last minute a bit jostled a bit sort of thrown together and when
11:39
you look at the way that they presented things and even down to things like the really simple
11:43
things like their media graphics last year they were really clean they were really functional and
11:47
did a really good job of portraying exactly what you need to know whether it was on Instagram,
11:51
Facebook, Twitter, so on and so forth. It was clean functional really nice exactly what you'd
11:56
expect of the team. This year it just seems to be a little off and I think it's all perfectly
12:00
encapsulated in that weird Jesus T pose George Russell does in the opening credits because that
12:05
is almost certainly not something that the drivers would have chosen themselves. That is something
12:09
that would have been given some level of artistic direction by the intro director and a certain
12:14
extent by the team because the team wants the drivers to portray not only themselves but also
12:20
the team and their confidence about the sport which is weird that Charles Leclerc already looks
12:25
dead inside in his little... Is that weird though? Is that weird? Not Charles Leclerc looking dead
12:30
inside but George Russell's weird Jesus T pose which almost feels more of a Hamlet thing.
12:37
It feels so badly coordinated. Maybe that's George building up the courage to say look guys
12:40
I'm going nasty Martin. Yeah just sort of going right I've got something to say fellas crikey
12:46
this is big news. To go back on a couple of the bits you're saying though like yeah especially
12:51
the media stuff things I don't know what's going on there I don't know if they hired a new person
12:54
and they're trying new stuff out or if it's just another big misstep there but it doesn't attract
13:00
kind of I don't know if that's working on new fans because I'm not a new fan for them but it's
13:04
as someone who's been a fan of this for a while it's not I'm just looking at it. No thank you. As
13:10
for the car surely you would maybe if you're still a little bit undecided as you clearly are
13:17
in the team at least with the three main people involved being Lois, George and Toto and what to
13:22
do about it would you not develop this car as it is until say the summer not just say until the
13:29
summer break just to try out and just make sure that okay we definitely definitely have got it wrong
13:35
and then at least you just then you kind of do what Alpha and Hassan whatever else did last year
13:39
we just don't bother developing it all over the summer we just go straight onto the next thing
13:43
and then by that point you've also seen what all the other teams have done in terms of development
13:47
and what you can probably predict what they're going to do because you just do what Aston Martin
13:51
did last year like okay we like this this and this stick that on a new car jobs are good and try
13:56
again next year. I'll let Ellie May say her piece. My worry is if they say we need to scrap
14:06
so well it's mainly their aerodynamics how much of that are they going to scrap and is it going to
14:12
be a case of this is not the worst of Mercedes yet because if you look at what McLaren did in the
14:19
winter they realized they've gone down the wrong route and have restarted and now they're at the
14:23
bottom of the grid does that mean if Mercedes stop developing what they've got are they going to fall
14:30
back whilst they're trying to develop a new concept? Okay so and you do it halfway in between and then
14:36
you kind of get the least worst of both. Mercedes knows what works and what doesn't work on this car
14:42
and what doesn't work is the side pods they've they've exhausted every other route so basically
14:47
what they've said is clearly what we need to do just sit out this season and wait with McLaren
14:51
there at the back of the field because they had an electrical issue and a software issue with
14:55
Piastri's car which is not something necessarily to do with their redesign. The other problem they
15:00
had with Lando was simply a hydraulic leak and that's again nothing to do with the overall design
15:04
of their vehicle that's just a fault that's fluking the worst possible time to happen.
15:10
They're not necessarily going to be at the bottom of the field when they get the car reliably running
15:14
and again I think that's going to give them hope as to what they've been able to produce over winter.
15:19
Then we find out they've got a driver issue.
15:22
Then we find out they've got a driver issue one of them doesn't come with the car there'll be a
15:25
different problem because McLaren and Zac Brown's going to say oh we've got a different problem
15:29
but the fact of the matter is Bahrain is nowhere near representative of McLaren's ability on track
15:34
in a race weekend. Through testing they looked a lot better. And the same was the same with Mercedes
15:37
last year it was not representative of what Mercedes could do and they were winning a race
15:40
by the end of the year and arguably could have had a couple other ones under their belt.
15:43
They could have but the problem is that while Mercedes have tried to work on a full-ord concept
15:47
everyone else oh yeah no I'm agreeing with you there I'm just saying from McLaren that should
15:50
be something reassuring for them because it's like yeah you can work at this absolute pig of a car
15:54
and get it up there. And McLaren have got the right path aerodynamically with their side pod
15:59
design their structure it's not too far afield from the things that we've seen working with
16:03
the Alpines, the Aston Martins, the Williams, the Ferraris, the Red Bulls. It's relatively
16:09
down the correct lines of what you need to do to produce a viable chassis and it just needs
16:14
appropriate fine tuning and whether or not McLaren have the ability to funds the skill set back at
16:20
McLaren HQ and working to do that is a different question. With Mercedes it comes down to this
16:26
the key element of the fact that that car will not become a good race car no matter what you do with
16:31
it throughout the season you're never going to find anything that truly works or is overall
16:36
beneficial to that car's performance because it is working around a flawed central item. That's
16:41
why they've said that their best strategy for 2024 is to start working on 2024 now.
16:48
Through what little development they've already done for 2023 at the cars the season progresses
16:52
if they find something that does work a little bit and go okay we can tweak that as we go along
16:57
but basically set everything for 2024 because equally 2024 is going to be the first year of
17:02
chassis that are impacted by the cost cap breaches for Aston Martin and Red Bull. All of a sudden
17:07
you're likely to see those two teams brought backwards if Mercedes can spend as much of this
17:11
year as possible moving forwards we're hopefully going to see a big clash as those two come back
17:17
together because this year Red Bull would have had their design fully submitted basically and gone
17:22
yep that works halfway through last year that was before they even got hit with the cost cap
17:26
regulations the same with Aston Martin they would have had their 2023 car designed basically two
17:31
weeks after the summer break last year 2024 is when we're going to see those cost cap regulations
17:36
hit teams that broke them and equally that's when Mercedes are essentially going to have to give
17:41
themselves an entire year to develop that car. I know that's a separate point that could be made
17:47
for another time but I do think there needs to be some way of having any cost cap penalties
17:52
implemented sooner than not even the year after because it does seem weird to have that delay.
17:56
I mean I know that's probably trickier to do in practice than it is in theory but and I don't
18:01
have the solution but it's just frustrating that you've got to wait essentially a whole season
18:04
before you can see some kind of because we probably even know if that was harsh enough of a penalty.
18:10
I mean again go into debate about what deserves what in any way in the beginning but that's a
18:15
whole other thing. Yeah we'll find out whether it was strict enough in 2024 but the fact of the
18:19
matter is that's when it's being impacted if you're sat at Mercedes with a blank piece of paper and
18:25
someone sent you a text going start working on 2024 now you're immediately going to be targeting
18:30
straight back at Red Bull at Aston Martin at Ferrari because two of those teams are going to
18:35
be hit by wind tunnel testing time and cost restrictions and they're going to be hampered
18:40
by it. Red Bull have got a winning formula but they're going to need to find a way of advancing
18:44
that on one season and they're cut back by a huge amount of wind tunnel time and equally if you're
18:50
Mercedes... Watch how all of this still doesn't help Ferrari the next year. It might not help
18:54
Ferrari but if you're Mercedes and you have a bad year this year what you're doing is you're earning
18:58
yourself more wind tunnel time for developing that 2024 car as that year develops. If you're Mercedes
19:04
and you come into 2024 roughly third fastest in the field in Bahrain but you've got to trick up
19:09
your sleeve because you finished fifth the season before you've got a huge amount of wind tunnel
19:13
time you've got one of the best development teams on the planet you've got a proven unit of people
19:20
of designers of engineers that can create year after year after year world record setting
19:26
championship winning cars and you've now got more wind tunnel time than you've ever had before.
19:32
The bounds of what Mercedes can possibly do as 2024 not necessarily starts but as it develops
19:37
from race three four onwards in 2024 we're going to see a new beast unleashed from Mercedes. It
19:44
just sucks we're gonna have to sit through and watch what should be a very good team with two
19:48
absolutely world-class drivers struggle for a season but the end game of that if you just
19:54
you just gotta be patient is the key point. I feel like Ellie may can probably make peace
19:58
with sitting through that for a season though. Well no. I agree with what you're saying Jessie
20:07
in the sense that if they are going to scrap what they've got they need to do it very early
20:15
on this season because as well when you go into as it next season the cost cap gets lowered again
20:23
so that is less money to try and experiment on different designs and trying to get the right one
20:30
to then become a championship winning car again so yeah if they are going to do it they are going
20:34
to have to do it now so that they give themselves enough time enough money enough wind tunnel
20:39
opportunity to end up sort of getting back up again but yeah I think if they're going to do that
20:46
they're just they're going to have to suck it up that they are going to get worse this season and
20:51
this is not the lowest point. Yeah to the average viewer they're going to get worse because other
20:57
teams are going to develop around them and Mercedes will have perhaps two development packages lined
21:01
up after that it's going to look like their car is going backwards through the field but it's the
21:06
whole idea of when you're skydiving if you pull your sheet you don't rush upwards everything else
21:10
just rushes away from you downwards far at a greater speed than you're moving it's the whole
21:15
idea of even you're confusing yourself there Jessie the whole idea is it's from which point
21:19
you view things whether you're stood on the station watching a train go past whether you're
21:22
on the train watching the station go past it's that it's simply a case of where you're looking
21:26
at something from but essentially it's going to look terrible for Mercedes but they yeah like I
21:31
may said they need to pull the trigger sooner rather than later to give themselves the most time and
21:35
crucially the most money it is a cost gap era the cost gap is getting tighter if you've got a year
21:40
where you've got more money than you will next year you want to spend all that money making sure
21:44
that you're shored up for the year coming then obviously next year they'll have prize money
21:48
coming into that which will help them pull you back through if they've got a good enough car which
21:52
hugely relies on doing things correctly this year we'll move on from talking about Mercedes
21:58
quite so intensely to Red Bull and Horner confirms that talks between Red Bull and McLaren for
22:03
supplying engines in 2026 and that's a long way off we should probably wait until 2026 to talk
22:10
about that but no it's important because Red Bull and McLaren for supplying engines in 2026 so does
22:16
that mean McLaren are going to have Ford engines are they going to they're going to have Red Bull
22:22
Ford derived engines going in the back of it is this a key thing that Mercedes really is going
22:27
to be shutting down selling out as many engines as possible to dedicate that much time and money
22:32
or no Mercedes is going to stop producing that many engines to try and look inwards and focus
22:36
on itself a bit more so McLaren have had to start looking elsewhere and they've thought best people
22:41
to go to are going to be someone who's clearly proven they can build championship winning engines
22:46
and is bringing in the entire engineering might of the United States to do so it's a smart move I
22:51
think we'll have to see if it pays off I don't know if anyone has any thoughts on McLaren going
22:57
back to Ford engines I think that it's it's a weird one the Claren at the moment because obviously
23:03
it's a little way away so they're trying to be prepared but then they're in such a mess at the
23:09
moment that I'm not sure if they're just trying to do too much in one go instead of they're just
23:14
spreading themselves a bit too thin over everything whereas they're just forgetting to actually do
23:18
anything about their current situation but that's just that's just a feeling I get it just seems
23:23
like they're juggling a lot of balls and forgetting that they don't need to be doing quite that much
23:29
I don't think this ball that with regards to their power trains for 2026 onwards
23:33
isn't quite the same sort of realm or being juggled by the same people that are trying to
23:38
make the brakes work and make sure there's enough hydraulic fluid in Lando's car it's
23:43
that you've got to have a certain aspect of your team looking forward at what's coming next
23:47
otherwise it's always going to come as a surprise and that's where you see F1 teams
23:51
falter and disappear from the roster oh yeah I mean it makes sense I just think from an optics
23:55
point of view it looks like they're just so all over the place with so many things not just in
23:59
Formula One alone but with with everything else that it just kind of seems like the one thing
24:03
that they're not fully focused on is actually current Formula One and getting that car up to
24:08
up to scratch which might be totally wrong about but that's just how it comes across a lot of the
24:12
time at the moment I wouldn't say it's a lack of focus I'd say it's it could the best way it could
24:16
put the worst way it could more realistically be viewed is a lack of care about what they're doing
24:21
for this season and possibly seasons to come until they essentially shore themselves up again
24:25
bear in mind how much of a flux and a slump McLaren's been in since about 2012 they've not
24:31
really had a decent time of things since then they've had the odd podium hither and thither
24:36
but they've been a see every time they build up to where it looks like they're going to make that
24:41
jump up and then falter again because they've sort of had this plan of getting better but they've
24:46
not figured out what to do next and then they just fall off the cliff again and then have to start
24:50
looking forwards again so it's this this weird idea of you've got to keep looking forwards and
24:54
having that plan for okay that's great what next and I think this is positive in the fact that
25:00
McLaren are looking at going elsewhere they've had Mercedes power units for a few seasons now
25:05
they had Renault right where just as London-Norris joins they've had them for at least three seasons
25:09
I think that's what my head said they've got to start looking elsewhere and again if Mercedes
25:13
are looking at changing how they're doing business you don't want that to come as a surprise to you
25:18
you don't want to be in the Red Bull Renault situation where all of a sudden Renault goes
25:24
ha screw you we're not going to give you engines anymore and all of a sudden Renault's going
25:27
shit um we've got phone number four Honda that's not a situation you want to be in especially if
25:35
you're on McLaren trying to build up something big when you've got Mando Norris on a contract
25:39
till the end of 2025 you've just maybe how many millions of pounds buying Oscar Piastri you want
25:45
to at least prove that's gone somewhere so you've at least got to an equally to the drivers you've
25:50
got to say look we've got a plan otherwise those drivers are not going to stick around it's pretty
25:54
much a god-given fact at this point in time Mando Norris is not sticking around at McLaren but
26:00
you've got Oscar Piastri there you're going to want to try and at least get some of your
26:02
money back out of the poor guy so you're going to have to give him a plan that's going to convince
26:06
him and also Mark Webber that he should be sticking around it's you've got it there has
26:11
to be this long-term plan and I think McLaren needs to make it the optics of them making it
26:18
when they're floundering at the back of the field with a car that's got two iPads glued to the wings
26:22
and a steering wheel that doesn't work isn't great but there's no better time in the present
26:28
to start sorting out your future yeah I think engines is almost the least of their worries
26:34
but a Ford McLaren relationship we've had that before it won the 1966 Le Mans so
26:45
yep if that's what they're basing it on they're really getting desperate with their reasons though
26:49
this worked in 1966 but yeah we'll take that against Ferrari yeah but look at Ferrari these
26:58
days that's not much of a competition is it not particularly huge competition when it's
27:05
when McLaren last run Ford engines in F1 that's the real question
27:15
bandwidth while I google it I should think it would have last been when they ran something
27:18
like the Cosworth DFV into the 80s yeah 1983 when you had Lauda and Watson running the three liter
27:28
Cosworth DFV and again that was a pretty successful car with podiums and points all the way through
27:34
only saw the team come thick because I think 1983 if they can get them on the podiums and points
27:39
though again if it's they were getting wins and podiums with it and by that point the DFV was a
27:45
hugely outclassed engine it was nowhere in relation to I think that year was PK that won
27:50
the championship and he was in a BMW engine Brabham that produced the best part of a thousand horsepower
27:58
the DFV was struggling to push 750 so you've got a car with a further 33 percent horsepower that's
28:04
winning the championship but you're still taking wins and podiums against it
28:08
McLaren Ford is a pretty decent pairing by that history sort of aspect I agree don't get me started
28:14
on the very fun intricacies of how BMW was able to cram a thousand horsepower through that tiny BMW
28:20
don't worry we won't it was it's really cool I might make your brain on that in a out of this
28:26
podcast I'll be doing a lecture after this anyway our third point from the news is um also based on
28:32
engine suppliers and funnily enough also to do with Mercedes supplying engines this is James
28:36
Vowles saying Williams will decide on power unit suppliers this year for 2026 and onwards so it's
28:42
the same situation McLaren's in but you feel a lot more confident about Williams doing it although
28:46
it seems every time Williams choose a power unit supplier it never goes particularly well or always
28:52
seems to have problems or never perfectly worked for them for the first few years that they're
28:56
choosing it for 26 now instead of waiting a couple of years or so should be a good sign because it
29:03
depending on who you're choosing say for argument's sake it's Porsche you can start
29:07
up doing all the kind of donkey work now and trying to figure out a bunch of stuff that
29:12
definitely shouldn't work so you can not make those mistakes later it seems again it's weird
29:17
that Williams is more reassuring than McLaren on this one given where they are but you kind of have
29:22
more trust in them and I don't know it's just it's that feeling you get from them that you don't get
29:26
from McLaren I can't really describe it I think a key thing Williams have learned is when they
29:32
started taking the Mercedes hybrid v6s what Mercedes do is they split the turbocharger down
29:37
the length of the engine you have your impeller at one end and your exhaust propeller at the other
29:44
Williams didn't know that's how the engine was laid out so had to completely reorganize the
29:50
turbocharger and the exhaust and the inlet house manifolds when they went to fit it in their car
29:55
because they didn't build a car but had that space in it so hopefully if Williams start picking
30:01
someone now that gives them essentially three years to sit down with their engine creator and
30:10
go right where are you putting this where are you putting that how are we going to have to package
30:13
this what aerodynamic packages are we going to look at creating as opposed to when Mercedes
30:18
literally drove a lorry up to their sort of workshop dumped a load of stuff went there you go
30:23
there's your engines they go well that doesn't fit they're going to go well make it fit then
30:27
you're Williams you should be able to engineer this you make fridges technically and then left
30:33
and Mercedes and Williams were just left with having to alter what was a very good power unit
30:37
but hamper the way it was it ran because they didn't know how it was going to be delivered
30:42
and if they can sort that out ahead of time it's promising and the fact that they've taken that
30:48
mistake they've made previously and learned from it is what you want to see from Formula One teams
30:53
if i went into the history books with ford mclaren then i'm giving Williams a Renault engine
31:01
i'm on board with that as well to be honest tag v6 is for a point which wasn't that bad either
31:08
so that's true yeah perhaps get my watch back on a different manufacturer of Formula One cars
31:14
anyway that's all we've got for the news this week that is what the hell has happened in the
31:19
past week or so nearly as long as our whole review episode of the Bahrain Grand Prix
31:25
that really there's been a lot to talk about um we'll move on to looking ahead at the Saudi
31:30
Arabian Grand Prix and the first question we always ask is what weather can we expect and
31:35
i've simply written in the notes this warm and dry is Saudi Arabia it's going to be little else
31:40
yeah i haven't actually looked at any numbers or data yet we are still about five days out
31:45
five days out because it is monday but is there a sprinkling chance of a missile strike or is that
31:49
not on the cards this year i don't want to hedge my bets um it seems kind of quiet over there but
31:56
every time we say that when you're working in a pub all of a sudden it gets busy so as soon as
31:59
i suppose you're standing in saudi arabia and goes huh it's quiet there's no missile strikes
32:04
another reason we shouldn't go to that grand prix will tempt fate too much yeah probably
32:08
shouldn't be allowed to that one anyway um which on track battles should we look out for this is
32:12
one of my favorite questions to try and decipher last season when we did our predictions and this
32:17
year or this early on at least it's it's tricky to call with accuracy but i'd expect the red balls
32:22
to look strong again and optimistically from a fan's perspective we'll have a good battle between
32:27
the ferraris the aston martins and the mercedes ideally alpine will be a lot more in it this
32:32
weekend providing a tackling block possibly for the alfa romeos as well has could be in for a
32:37
decent performance if they can both nail qualifying and don't go too bold on the strategy we've seen
32:43
that the car has decent one lap pace if it can get its drivers able to extract that from the car
32:48
and qualify it's a tricky circuit to overtake at saudi arabia if they can do that without fluffing
32:54
a strategy without going something strange too early on they might get away with a few points
32:59
williams again i reckon could be off of points it's that same principle of just qualify well and
33:04
run the race to your own pace that seems to work for williams not have to worry about fighting too
33:08
much else just focus on getting that car through its 300 miles as fast as possible don't worry
33:14
about what those around you are doing so i capitalize on the fact that saudi arabia being
33:17
saudi arabia and dnf's left right and center very possible as long as they can just avoid all that
33:23
carnage as well like you say just run your own race and avoid all the trouble then should be okay
33:27
it does pay off nicely and it could work for williams alfatower and mclaren still have a lot to
33:31
prove though and i think we've yet to see the full potential of either of their chassis chassis
33:37
this season just on their durability and some of the corners here depending on how that goes
33:41
again yeah you're going to be looking at not so you somewhat to an extent durability whether
33:45
we're cracking wishbones and things but equally to a certain extent ride compliancy and how much that
33:50
disturbs the underfloor aero that's going to be a big thing because we've got huge curbs and you're
33:54
hitting them one side after the other if you're really breaking up the airflow underneath it's
33:58
going to be a real question of which teams have got the best essentially ceiling around the edges
34:02
was it the color science last year in the Ferrari that did that just about save coming off one of
34:07
the corners early on in the lap i'm trying to think i think it was like he was he really rode
34:12
the curb and then was just he just managed to save it it was it was that turn one two three bit
34:17
it was where mid crashed last year it ran really wide on the exit of i think turn three and just
34:23
managed to hold it together essentially as the car sort of resettled the re-grip but yeah if you
34:27
ping yourself off the curves too much you're you're risking losing time ellie mate you look
34:33
like you're lining up for a point i they have changed the curbing at turn three so they put
34:41
spikes in it yeah they call it a rumble line which then essentially means it makes the car
34:49
shake but it slows it down and hopefully it then should sort of maybe keep a bit more control um
34:58
i'd say i guess the most important part is getting turn i guess 27 correct to make sure you've got
35:06
full power then to turn down the straight to turn one because that really is your only overtaking
35:13
opportunity when you've got a drs into that final turn as well because that's where we saw
35:20
charlotte max dueling with it as they had done in barrain last year where you sort of dummy one
35:25
person to go for it so you've got the drs for the second one and yeah like you said getting a good
35:29
exit out of that final turn is key to getting a lot of lap time out of the car which max knows
35:35
the boundaries of because 2021 he overstepped those boundaries and ruined what could have been
35:39
the all-time greatest qualifying lap from a driver miles ahead about half a second up the road from
35:46
lewis time wise and then just taps the wall and breaks the wrist suspension grojonesque very
35:52
grojonesque but that was a qualifying lap which leads us on to the interesting question of who
35:55
do we think is going to qualify in pole position sergio peres for me did it last year loves his
36:01
street circuits bank tidy why not elly may max of steppen it's going to give us the quality we
36:06
haven't seen from this circuit yeah yeah this third time lucky i guess yeah no now she said it
36:15
now she's jinxed in which means that it's actually going to be my guess for them to alonzo
36:18
getting pole i reckon it will really put the cat among the pigeons and it would just be
36:22
absolutely fantastic to see kind of cruise pass max on the line window soon just take his hand
36:27
up the car way it would be a real test to see how quick that mercedes engine really is because
36:34
obviously this track is almost like what 75 percent full throttle yeah you just sort of
36:39
wiggle around that full throttle yeah it's foot down break a little bit maybe turn one two maybe
36:49
i don't know is it like four and then you go flat out until about turn
36:56
ten i honestly don't know it's such a weird circuit i've not bothered learning the layout
37:00
i'm surprised anyway doesn't know more of the track considering how much time she's been spending on
37:04
the graphic for it getting the corners just right should be imprinted on the inside of her eyelids
37:08
by now i know and i have literally written half a track guide from terms one to 13 i'm just trying
37:16
to remember which ones are the breaking the biggest breaking zones are turned turns sort
37:22
of going into turn one two a little bit at three keep going basically then a little bit of breaking
37:30
at four then i guess it's like full throttle then until like turn 10 and then it's so that's
37:38
the semi-banked one isn't it and then turn 13 is a semi-banked which then it's sort of that case of
37:45
breaking and turning at the same time and then the rest of it is basically full throttle until
37:51
turn 21 which is like a like more of an s than a chicane it's not quite sort of that strict and
38:00
it's turning and then yeah and then it's like full throttle again basically to turn 27
38:08
it's a pretty harem scarum lap how many laps are we doing of it 57 is it 50 i think 50 so after those
38:15
50 or so laps who do we think is making up the podium and i think oh it's easy we can rub out
38:22
who's winning the race we've all predicted the same damn thing we're all predicting of the
38:25
stuff and win so who do we think is coming second it's the same as last week anyway for me i'm going
38:30
to say i'm going to try a thing out because i'm predicting it's going to be a dullish year for
38:36
for motorsport for formula one so i'm going to say that this weekend's podium is going to be the same
38:41
as the last one and then we're just going to copy whatever is saudi arabia yes and we'll see what
38:46
happens i did wonder whether you're copying and pasting what i'm doing a mercedes i'm testing
38:52
stuff out for next year see what works um i've gone for a charlotte clare second and sergio
39:01
peres third which you know it's bad when i think that's more ambitious than jesse's second place
39:06
it's bold i mean it's bold but it does match her wild prediction later on yes it does i mean i've
39:16
gone for fernando alonso second charlotte clare third which i think is weirdly realistic where's
39:23
checo for you i i don't know i i just if charlotte clare is able to keep his car running for long enough
39:31
to yeah they'll have to they'll sort of use peres to try and hold off alonso from taking max's win
39:38
and that's how charlotte get through i just thought who has the alonso getting in second
39:44
anyway so it really doesn't work i just thought who has the more powerful engines it's probably
39:51
red bull and ferrari if they can get their reliability in tow okay so if you think it's
40:00
if you think it's down to most powerful engines why have you put espanol on as your fastest lap
40:04
holder because alpine were very good in much in long fast breaks last year yes and this is only
40:21
the second race of the season so you thought ah hell with it we'll give it a shot and see if it's
40:28
i am kind of basing it on last year's uh how they were sort of very good in the speed traps
40:33
i think it should if it's like last year's car this as long as the engine does not blow up
40:41
with the again how it's got to use now she said it then i think it should be a good race car
40:50
and pierre gasly almost got fastest lap last race so i should say pierre gasly then
40:56
because i think it'll be okon okon's got some he's got some points to make up for so
41:05
on his license or in the in the race of the championship we don't talk about the amount
41:08
of points that the alpine drivers have that's dangerous dangerous territory for both of them
41:12
in reality teemo um your fastest lap please i'm gonna stick with this all season till it happens
41:18
george russell nice and i've gone for fernando alonso i reckon that essentially max will be so
41:25
far up the road as soon as alonso's cleared the defense of sergio perez he'll have essentially
41:29
a free circuit to absolutely smash out a couple of fast ones and he traces him down in the final few
41:33
laps that's how it's going to pan out that's where it's going to come from calling it now
41:37
there's worse logics there are worse logics usually employed by me as well which is weird
41:42
um wild predictions team and i've gone down a similar route elime you've got your wildest
41:47
prediction you're copying me a little bit there by thinking if he can do that then i can maybe
41:51
get in a shoehorn with this mine is similar but different but elime's gone i wrote mine first
41:56
you did write yours first i will that is correct elime though yours is truly wild
42:02
yes well i thought you two had been a bit negative so i thought the wild predictions need a positive
42:11
spin hopefully no spins though because ferrari are gonna have a good race and for the third time
42:19
she has never said that you uh really like jinxing things don't you well my predictions last week
42:26
were very good this is really i should be emitting positive energy out into this world
42:33
and you know if you manifest it ferrari is a bit of a challenge for someone even with your powers
42:37
though okay so timo explain to me your only 10 cars finish the race and then i'll explain my
42:47
my reason for going slightly different but very much the same i'm not sure really what i've got
42:51
to explain there 10 cars finish the race the other 10 do not okay so i've gone for only five
42:59
no i've gone for only five teams have both cars finish which means we could actually just have
43:06
we could both be right we could both be right but i could also have 15 cars finish the race
43:12
but those other five are just individual drivers from one team and then you've got five teams
43:17
where both drivers finish i've got a bit more scope for flexibility in mine i think i'd rather
43:22
it was mine as it purely is with yours fitting into that and then somehow elime gets the ferrari
43:29
thing as well involved it's not improbable that all three happen at the same time but there is
43:35
also a risk that for some i'd prefer it all to be uniform rather than wishy washy
43:40
i think that i'd be more fun because the odds of that are just astronomical yeah just two by two
43:45
by two by two like they're sort of coming through the checkered flag like noah's arc
43:51
side by side and everything that would be nice but equally mine opens up the possibility of if
43:58
more than five teams finish both cars i don't get the point if less than five teams because
44:05
i've got i've got a greater greater level of specificity i think i could have one of every
44:10
team finish and be fine and you'd be screwed exactly so there's there's still this we might have
44:15
picked essentially the same prediction but there are different outcomes for the two of us coming
44:19
back to your training analogy from earlier it all makes sense now exactly there is a nice circularity
44:24
to what i say which brings us nicely to the conclusion of this week's podcast let's not
44:28
chuck in any feeder series gas because we might have f2 don't we surgery but gonna be nuts and
44:34
fair enough i think it's going to be pretty pretty damn crazy and teo porche has got his work cut out
44:38
but i reckon zane maloney is going to do something mad um that is all we have time for on this week's
44:43
episode join us again soon we'll be reviewing the barrain grand prix and the feeder series
44:49
the oh we haven't changed the notes have we um that i was thinking you'd noticed before
44:54
because i did not that now but i i fully anchored my way into that one you put it on a screen if
44:59
i'm reading that out um that's all we have to change the end of it bit then as well because
45:04
it also says we have an interview on the horizon with alex brundle i'd read that far ahead by this
45:09
point i tripped up once i wasn't going to simply go back and trip over the exact same thing
45:17
that's all we have time for on this week's episode join us again when we'll be reviewing
45:20
the saudi arabian grand prix and the feeder series action from across the weekend we also have an
45:26
exclusive interview with alex brundle on the channels right now i say on the channels it's
45:30
on a few clips that are on our socials and the full interview is on our youtube channel so make
45:35
sure you've liked subscribed and got notifications turned on not miss anything and while you're there
45:39
give that interview a watch it's pretty damn good fun where elie may and i sat down with him after
45:44
the london classic car show to chat all things nascar historic racing and food sort of ish
45:51
lots of food they're easy quick fire questions teemo where can the people find you me yeah you
45:57
that's what i said i said teemo i cut out slightly that's all well i can be found over on is it first
46:03
on the curbs nitrox podcast paddock sorority paddock passion and instagram lovely jubbly elie
46:10
may where can the people find you you can find me co-writing the instagram page and
46:18
running our tiktok where can we find you jesse you can find me on instagram and twitter as
46:25
at jesse on cars as well as writing for classic car weekly and like i've already mentioned you
46:30
can also find no i haven't mentioned already actually you can find the podcast on twitter
46:34
where we moan about things i say we it's mostly me moaning about things that are
46:38
largely motorsport related so yeah plenty of things there for you to find out and keep yourselves
46:43
entertained with until the saudi raiding grand prix this weekend
47:13
you