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FEMALE KILLER DEATH BY NEEDLE after slitting pregnant mommy open to steal baby · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Breaking news. Now in the last hours, the so called
0:12
Speaker 1: womb raider killer Lisa Montgomery is executed, the first female
0:18
Speaker 1: federal prisoner executed in sixty seven years, first female executed
0:27
Speaker 1: since nineteen fifty three. Becky calls her daughter's home and
0:39
Speaker 1: cell phones. There is no answer. Becky got off for
0:45
Speaker 1: the house to before a guards and found Bobby on
0:48
Speaker 1: the floor. She immediately called nine one one. Becky Harper
0:53
Speaker 1: sees her child sprawled out on the wood green floor,
0:58
Speaker 1: wood all over the room, basically her inners exposed. She's lifeless.
1:05
Speaker 1: That is why the death penalty was carried out on
1:09
Speaker 1: a female federal prisoner for the first time in sixty
1:12
Speaker 1: seven years. Because it wasn't just Bobby, Joe Stennant dead
1:17
Speaker 1: in the floor, covered in massive amounts of blood, her baby,
1:22
Speaker 1: her fetus, Her infant had been ripped out of her
1:27
Speaker 1: stomach while she's alive to take the baby. Have you
1:34
Speaker 1: ever heard of more heinous, aggravating circumstances surrounding a murderer?
1:40
Speaker 1: Which is one of the requirements in order to grant
1:43
Speaker 1: the death penalty with me an all star panel judge,
1:46
Speaker 1: trial lawyer, anchor Court TV Ashley Wilcot at Ashley Wilcot
1:50
Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Jeff Gardier, renowned Board certified clinical psychologist,
1:56
Speaker 1: Professor Behavioral Medicine at Truro College of Medicine at Doctor
2:01
Speaker 1: Jeff Gardier dot com and author of the Causes of Autism.
2:07
Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, former cop, now PI with its own investigation firm,
2:12
Speaker 1: Crispin Investigations dot com. Percy Pitts her from the Federal
2:18
Speaker 1: Federal Warden thirty year career in corrections, founder of Creative
2:22
Speaker 1: Corrections Education Foundation, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University. Author of
2:27
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of Poisonous Liaisons
2:31
Speaker 1: on the True Crime Network, Joseph Scott Morgan, but first
2:34
Speaker 1: to lead news anchor Wdbo Ray Kiputo Ray Kiputo. Lisa
2:40
Speaker 1: Montgomery put to death after multiple stays of execution. Many
2:45
Speaker 1: people thought it would not happen, What time, where, What
2:50
Speaker 1: are the circumstances surrounding her execution? Nancy had happened overnighte
2:54
Speaker 1: she was I think there was two times that the
2:57
Speaker 1: execution was stopped, one because of COVID and and then
3:00
Speaker 1: the other one had to do with people arguing that
3:03
Speaker 1: she just wasn't mentally fit. To be executed, but low
3:06
Speaker 1: be all that happened overnight, and I'll tell you there's
3:08
Speaker 1: a lot of people that aren't shedding any tears for
3:10
Speaker 1: this woman. Percy Pittser former federal warden, thirty year career
3:15
Speaker 1: and corrections at CCEF Scholarships dot org. Percy, thank you
3:20
Speaker 1: for being with us. You know, I've always noticed that
3:23
Speaker 1: the execution time is typically set at twelve o one.
3:28
Speaker 1: Why is that, Well, I would think it's because the
3:32
Speaker 1: earlier in the day that they're probably all the appeals
3:36
Speaker 1: are done, and I think in this particularly one, the
3:39
Speaker 1: suffering court even got into it and just to get
3:44
Speaker 1: it over with. Well, you're you're right, and that the
3:47
Speaker 1: appellate process must be complete before an execution can take place.
3:52
Speaker 1: Twelve o one a m I might add, guys, this
3:56
Speaker 1: woman the first female executed and sixty seven years to
4:02
Speaker 1: get the death penalty in our country, and there's a
4:06
Speaker 1: reason for it here. Earlier heard that Kathleen Garrett TV
4:09
Speaker 1: show Law Solved. Take a listen to this. Three forty
4:13
Speaker 1: three PM, Sheriff Ben Espy arrives at Bobby Joe's in
4:17
Speaker 1: its house and immediately takes over CPR from Bobby Joe's
4:21
Speaker 1: distraught mother, Becky Harper. Once you start CPR, you continue
4:27
Speaker 1: CPR until they're taken to a hospital. It was pretty
4:32
Speaker 1: apparent that there had been a violence truggle in the
4:35
Speaker 1: room where they succurred. There was blood everywhere, spattered all
4:39
Speaker 1: over the floor of the walls. It was an awful mess.
4:47
Speaker 1: There was just a massive amount of smeared blood in
4:50
Speaker 1: that room, probably an unused bedroom area. There were some
4:54
Speaker 1: puppy cages because Bobby Joe raised and sold Red Terrier dogs.
5:03
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe was laying on her back in the middle
5:05
Speaker 1: of the room, was blood scattered all over the wooden floor,
5:09
Speaker 1: and her stomach was exposed. Guys, we are talking about
5:13
Speaker 1: the first woman executed in the country in sixty seven years,
5:17
Speaker 1: her name Lisa Montgomery, and the death of Bobby Joe
5:21
Speaker 1: and a bizarre and grizzly death that was straight out
5:25
Speaker 1: to professor forensicck Jacksonville State University and author Joseph Scott
5:28
Speaker 1: Morgan Joe Scott, what type of bleeding? Everybody that saw
5:34
Speaker 1: this scene, the victim's mother, to be the first, I
5:38
Speaker 1: might add, was just overwhelmed at the amount of blood.
5:43
Speaker 1: The grizzly nature of the scene, fly Will Nancy. The
5:50
Speaker 1: reason you're going to have all of this huge volume
5:53
Speaker 1: of blood is this is equivalent almost too, if you
5:57
Speaker 1: think of a disembowelment, and you know, as earlier stated,
6:02
Speaker 1: her bowels were actually visible, and you make this abdominal incision.
6:06
Speaker 1: I would imagine in this particular case, this is not
6:09
Speaker 1: done obviously in a sterile surgical environment. This is done
6:13
Speaker 1: crudely with someone who is probably very unskilled at it.
6:18
Speaker 1: And when you do this and you introduce the sharp
6:21
Speaker 1: instrument into this pristine abdominal environment, you're not only going
6:27
Speaker 1: through the outer shell of the body, the skin and
6:30
Speaker 1: the subcutaneous fat, you're also probably nicking the bowel, and
6:34
Speaker 1: our bowels have a tremendous amount of blood vessel supply.
6:38
Speaker 1: Then on top of that, you're going to get into
6:42
Speaker 1: the uterus as well, which has a huge has a
6:46
Speaker 1: huge vascular supply as well. So you've doubled this. So
6:50
Speaker 1: you've got all of this blood that's pouring out. This
6:54
Speaker 1: is also going to be commingled with the fluid from
6:58
Speaker 1: the ambionic sack. It's going to be a very grizzly,
7:00
Speaker 1: grizzly seeing Nancy, is it possible Joe Scott Morgan, Uh,
7:05
Speaker 1: Statistically for a case like this, In a case like this,
7:10
Speaker 1: for the baby to live, it's it's difficult because you
7:14
Speaker 1: don't know what the level of care that's going to
7:17
Speaker 1: be applied to this child. Now, for instance, the mother
7:23
Speaker 1: first before they cut the baby out. Well, yeah, but
7:27
Speaker 1: it would have to be very very quick, Nancy, because
7:29
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is something that's referred to a
7:32
Speaker 1: cellular respiration and the mother is actually supplying Joe Scott,
7:36
Speaker 1: how many times do you have to tell you talking
7:38
Speaker 1: regular people talk, you know, break it down for me.
7:41
Speaker 1: I just this is what I'm saying. Mama is literally supplying,
7:48
Speaker 1: supplying life to this baby, and outside of the womb,
7:51
Speaker 1: it's very difficult for the baby to survive. And if
7:55
Speaker 1: the mother is deceased, it would have to be a
7:59
Speaker 1: matter of minutes, and I mean minutes quickly, minutes. Well
8:04
Speaker 1: I think the mother is killed. How long until the
8:07
Speaker 1: baby dies and the baby is going to dwell the
8:13
Speaker 1: uterus living? I would say up to four to five
8:16
Speaker 1: minutes after the mother is deceased, if in fact she
8:19
Speaker 1: was deceased at this particular time. There's been some indication
8:23
Speaker 1: that this person may very well have strangled the mother,
8:28
Speaker 1: but we don't know how valid that is, and of
8:31
Speaker 1: course that's something that would have to be determined at autopsy.
8:41
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace for those of you just
8:46
Speaker 1: joining as breaking news of many people or crime watcher's
8:49
Speaker 1: legal legals like myself wake up this morning and find
8:53
Speaker 1: out that the execution of Lisa Montgomery has occurred. The
8:58
Speaker 1: first female isn't her put to death with the death
9:02
Speaker 1: penalty in our country in sixty seven years? This maybe? Why?
9:08
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Kathleen Garrett I told
9:11
Speaker 1: a paramedic her mother's here. Her mother says that she's
9:14
Speaker 1: eight months pregnant, and the paramedic says, Ben, there's no
9:20
Speaker 1: baby here. Here's the umbilical cord. It's been cut. You
9:23
Speaker 1: have to look for a baby. Bobby Joe's abdomen is
9:29
Speaker 1: sliced open in what appears to be a crude cesarean section.
9:34
Speaker 1: It was jagged. It was in the lower abdomen. You
9:38
Speaker 1: could see where the knife had started and stopped and
9:40
Speaker 1: would start again eventually taking this large, large opening. It
9:46
Speaker 1: just wasn't like a surgical doctor would do. This was
9:50
Speaker 1: a pretty rough living fed appeared to be from somebody
9:54
Speaker 1: that was very inexperienced, was delivering a child, display valiant
10:01
Speaker 1: efforts to save her. Bobby Joe dies to the hospital,
10:05
Speaker 1: but doctor said the missing baby may still be alive
10:09
Speaker 1: and an urgent need of medical attention. You are hearing,
10:13
Speaker 1: I'm a friend, Kathleen Garrett at TV show solved to
10:17
Speaker 1: a longtime colleague and renowned psychologists Professor Behavioral Medicine at Touro,
10:23
Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Gardier. Doctor Jeff, you know, you and I
10:27
Speaker 1: go back a long way analyzing cases. Very often we disagree,
10:32
Speaker 1: but you've got to agree that whoever did this, they're
10:36
Speaker 1: not crazy. This had to be thought out, This was
10:39
Speaker 1: well planned, and they managed to abscond and invade police
10:44
Speaker 1: with not only getting away from a murder scene, but
10:47
Speaker 1: taking the baby they knew enough to, as you heard,
10:51
Speaker 1: cut the umbilical cord. This is no idiot, This is
10:55
Speaker 1: not some crazed person. And what I'm working up to, Jeff, is,
11:00
Speaker 1: when you and I were recovering the Scott Peterson case,
11:02
Speaker 1: one of the zany theories. So I thought at the
11:05
Speaker 1: time that the defense came up with after trying out
11:08
Speaker 1: multiple defense theories was that somebody kidnapped Lacy in order
11:15
Speaker 1: to get her baby, and of course, the physical evidence
11:19
Speaker 1: disproved that because the baby was still in her uterus
11:23
Speaker 1: when Lacy was put into the San Francisco Bay we
11:27
Speaker 1: know that. So doctor Jeff Gardier at the time, we
11:30
Speaker 1: pooh pooed it because who would do that. Well, I'll
11:33
Speaker 1: tell you who would do that, Lisa Montgomery. That's what
11:37
Speaker 1: kind of a mindset is that you want a baby
11:40
Speaker 1: so badly you will not only commit murder, but in
11:42
Speaker 1: this grew some grizzly manner. Well, at some point Nancy,
11:47
Speaker 1: her defense attorneys asserted that she may have been psychotic
11:52
Speaker 1: when this was going on. We know, in something so
11:57
Speaker 1: heinous to do something like this, certainly there is some
12:01
Speaker 1: mental instability. So the question really does becoming to keep
12:05
Speaker 1: it concise. Of course, how disturbed was this woman emotionally?
12:11
Speaker 1: Was she psychotic at the time. All of that still
12:15
Speaker 1: tells us this was a completely heinous crime. And again
12:20
Speaker 1: her attorneys are saying that she had a lifetime of abuse.
12:23
Speaker 1: But there were victims here, the baby and the mother,
12:27
Speaker 1: and that's what has to be accounted for. Doctor Jeff Gardier,
12:31
Speaker 1: you know, you're the shrink, not me. But let me
12:35
Speaker 1: just stop you in your tracks, doctor Jeff, because you're
12:40
Speaker 1: telling me that this killer at Lisa mcgommery went psychotic
12:45
Speaker 1: and then once she committed the murder and got the
12:48
Speaker 1: baby cut the abilical cord, then the psychosis suddenly ended.
12:53
Speaker 1: Is this like a temporary psychosis that I only lasted
12:56
Speaker 1: long enough for her to commit the murder. Because I'm
12:59
Speaker 1: as a layperson, I'm just a trial lawyer, I'm having
13:02
Speaker 1: a really hard time swallowing that theory as as I
13:07
Speaker 1: am Nancy, as I said the lawyers, you haven't totally
13:12
Speaker 1: offt your mind. This is what her attorneys are put
13:17
Speaker 1: up as her defense, that you may have been psychotic
13:20
Speaker 1: at that time. I don't doubt that this is a
13:23
Speaker 1: woman to do something so completely heinous, so completely crazy
13:29
Speaker 1: that it was not psychotic. But it was crazy and
13:32
Speaker 1: may have been based on a lifetime of abuse. But
13:35
Speaker 1: as I said, there were real victims of this crime. Guys,
13:40
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Kathleen Garrett at Solved.
13:43
Speaker 1: The doctor said, Chriff, you're running out of time. You're
13:46
Speaker 1: gonna have to find this child very fast. Search of
13:50
Speaker 1: the residents as well as the neighboring area was conducted
13:53
Speaker 1: and the unborn child had not been found. The only
13:56
Speaker 1: information initially obtained during the neighborhood canvas was that a
14:01
Speaker 1: small red car had been seen at the residence earlier
14:03
Speaker 1: in the afternoon. We sealed off a big portion. Let's
14:08
Speaker 1: give more. I had a lot of volunteers looking in dumpsters,
14:11
Speaker 1: looking in the river, looking everywhere possible. They're going to
14:14
Speaker 1: have been a baby that would have been totally away.
14:19
Speaker 1: As the pressure amounts and the case goes more complicated,
14:22
Speaker 1: the sheriff calls for help. It was determined very early
14:28
Speaker 1: on that more investigative officers were needed in this investigation.
14:33
Speaker 1: I suggested to the sheriff that we activate the initial
14:35
Speaker 1: response team of the Northwest Major Case Squad. So the
14:39
Speaker 1: search is on. Is the baby alive? Now? Why this case,
14:43
Speaker 1: as opposed to all other cases, did the defendant, Lisa
14:46
Speaker 1: Montgomery get the death penalty? Which, let me refresh you
14:52
Speaker 1: is a lethal injection in this jurisdiction that consists of
14:56
Speaker 1: three different medicines. One is course potassium chloride that stops
15:02
Speaker 1: the heart, the other is my dazz A line which
15:05
Speaker 1: is a sedative, and the third one is a procuronium
15:09
Speaker 1: bromide which causes muscle paralysis, including your heart. That has
15:15
Speaker 1: just happened in the last hours in the case if
15:18
Speaker 1: the first woman executed in the US under the death
15:21
Speaker 1: penalty in sixty seven years, Lisatgomery and the death of
15:27
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Stinnett. Now I'm going to go to Ashley
15:32
Speaker 1: Wilcot Court TV anchor, judge and trial lawyer, but first
15:35
Speaker 1: listen to this from Solved. At seven eighteen pm, four
15:40
Speaker 1: hours after the nine one one called, a forensic team
15:43
Speaker 1: begins a detailed sweep of the crime scene. It is
15:46
Speaker 1: the bloodiest one they have ever seen, Serge and Dave
15:50
Speaker 1: Merril to Howard Trope started telling me investigators from Ottawa
15:52
Speaker 1: County it contact with him to borrow additional luminol to
15:55
Speaker 1: spray for blood. Cluminal is the chemical use to high
16:00
Speaker 1: blood and blood spatter. They wanted a quart or something
16:05
Speaker 1: as much as they possibly could. That would be an
16:07
Speaker 1: exceptional luminal used on a crime scene. There was a
16:10
Speaker 1: lot of blood that was lost. There were slippies you
16:13
Speaker 1: could see where they slept on the floor and they
16:15
Speaker 1: had rastled around, and there were clots of blood the
16:18
Speaker 1: size of popkins scattered around the room. The blood samples
16:23
Speaker 1: are rushed to the lab for DNA analysis. Bobby Joe's
16:27
Speaker 1: computer is sent to a computer forensic lab in Kansas City,
16:31
Speaker 1: but the crime scene yields few other clues. Right there,
16:35
Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, I would hammer that hammer that hammer that
16:39
Speaker 1: to a jury. Why because now we know that the
16:45
Speaker 1: victim in this case, eight months pregnant, Bobby Joe Stinnett,
16:49
Speaker 1: trying to save her baby, fought for her life. She
16:55
Speaker 1: was killed when this. Her tummy was ripped. That means
17:01
Speaker 1: she was alive when the attack occurred on her stomach.
17:07
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that, Ashley, No, no, no, no, nobody
17:10
Speaker 1: can imagine that. No normal person, no average person, no
17:14
Speaker 1: rational person can imagine that someone had planned. This had
17:18
Speaker 1: to have been planned. You don't just pick a victim
17:21
Speaker 1: and say, oh, look they happen to be pregnant. Maybe
17:24
Speaker 1: I'll go steal o their baby. This is planned. I
17:26
Speaker 1: want a baby. I don't care the suffering I impose
17:30
Speaker 1: on the eighth month pregnant woman. I don't care the
17:34
Speaker 1: pain that she's in. The Aggravated circumstances cause this and
17:39
Speaker 1: crime upon crime. Not only does she murder the mother.
17:43
Speaker 1: Not only does she cut the fetus from the mother's
17:49
Speaker 1: belly while the mother's likely alive, not only does she
17:53
Speaker 1: take the baby. All of these things aggravated circumstances amount
17:59
Speaker 1: to a death penalty. Senate Crime period Crime Stories with
18:13
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace in the last hours, the first execution of
18:18
Speaker 1: a female on death row is sixty seven years has
18:22
Speaker 1: gone down in the early morning hours. It was about
18:25
Speaker 1: one thirty am when prison officials announced that this perp,
18:30
Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery, was in fact executed and is dead. Take
18:37
Speaker 1: a listen to criminal pursuit. There was no sign of
18:42
Speaker 1: forced entry at the residence, indicating that whoever had committed
18:47
Speaker 1: to crime was possibly invited into the residence, and there
18:52
Speaker 1: was not a murder weapon located in the residence. At
18:58
Speaker 1: the hospital, strands of long blonde hair are found clutched
19:02
Speaker 1: in Bobby Joe's hands. Your paper bags over her hands
19:06
Speaker 1: and when the nurses told me that they'd seen hair
19:08
Speaker 1: strands in her hands when she come in. The cuts
19:12
Speaker 1: and literature marks on Bobby Joe's body suggests she put
19:16
Speaker 1: up a desperate struggle to protect her baby. The victim
19:20
Speaker 1: had cut Mark's knife wound on her fingers, which are
19:24
Speaker 1: problem and called defensive wounds, where she was trying to
19:27
Speaker 1: help Ward off the knife and she was grabbing it
19:30
Speaker 1: the knife and cutting her own fingers. The feet were
19:34
Speaker 1: completely covered in blood and as you could see that
19:37
Speaker 1: blood had come up between the toes, which told me
19:40
Speaker 1: if she had tried to stand and maybe head stood
19:44
Speaker 1: got her feet flat on the floor. Can you even
19:47
Speaker 1: imagine at late in my pregnancy with the twins, I
19:51
Speaker 1: was in a wheelchair. I would have to be carried
19:54
Speaker 1: in a wheelchair from the makeup room all the way
19:59
Speaker 1: to the set, Get in the chair, perform our program,
20:04
Speaker 1: deliver our program, get back in the wheelchair and come home.
20:08
Speaker 1: And this woman is slipping in blood all over the floor,
20:14
Speaker 1: fighting to save for a baby. We also learned that
20:18
Speaker 1: there were ligature marks on her neck. Straight out to you.
20:23
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
20:26
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. What does it all mean? Well,
20:30
Speaker 1: it means that there was an awareness there. Remember what
20:33
Speaker 1: the investigator just mentioned just a second ago, that awareness
20:37
Speaker 1: by him on the part of the victim. On Bobby Joe,
20:42
Speaker 1: she was fully aware in cognizant of the fact that
20:45
Speaker 1: her life was in danger, in the life of her
20:47
Speaker 1: inborn child was in danger. She had these defensive marks,
20:50
Speaker 1: these cuts on her hands and rightly said by him,
20:54
Speaker 1: this idea that you're trying to fend these these slices off.
20:57
Speaker 1: And that's what happened. Also to a point that I'd
21:00
Speaker 1: made earlier, Nancy, there is evidence that, and I guess
21:05
Speaker 1: in a last ditch effort, maybe she attempted to strangle
21:09
Speaker 1: this poor woman, because they stated that there were actually
21:13
Speaker 1: literature marks around her neck, and that I think that
21:17
Speaker 1: probably going forward, you know how frenzied this whole event
21:21
Speaker 1: is where she changes from actually attempting to cut this
21:26
Speaker 1: woman open while she is alive, mind you, to this
21:32
Speaker 1: idea that she attempted to strangle her as well. I
21:34
Speaker 1: think the big key here is to try to find
21:37
Speaker 1: out at what point in time these events occurred. Was
21:40
Speaker 1: she actually dead, was she actually did at the moment
21:43
Speaker 1: Tom and wish her abdomen was finally sliced open straight
21:47
Speaker 1: out to Robert Crispin and Crispin Investigations dot com former
21:50
Speaker 1: cop Now investigator. Where did the police start? What do
21:55
Speaker 1: they do now? Well, Nancy I'll tell you from being
21:57
Speaker 1: on several homicide scenes and walking into some pret brutal
22:01
Speaker 1: brutal scenes, one thing that was importantly said is she
22:06
Speaker 1: probably knew her her perpetrator. The crime occurred inside the house.
22:10
Speaker 1: So me as an investigator looking past all the blood,
22:13
Speaker 1: passed all the carnage to me, says, I think this
22:17
Speaker 1: victim knew who killed her. So in this particular case,
22:22
Speaker 1: Montgomery led police right to her, unbeknownst through a digital footprint. Yeah,
22:28
Speaker 1: we just heard that, you're dad on Robert Crispin. Robert
22:34
Speaker 1: joining us from Crispin's investigations, explain Ray Kimputer joining me
22:38
Speaker 1: lead anchor w DBO. How as Crisp and just said,
22:43
Speaker 1: did Lisa mcgomery just picked to death in the last
22:46
Speaker 1: hours leeue cops right to her. Well, there was a
22:50
Speaker 1: digital trail. The two actually met a dog show and
22:55
Speaker 1: they were conversing online. So you know, between that and
22:59
Speaker 1: all the pieces, all these breadcrumbs, per se were left
23:02
Speaker 1: out that it didn't take police terribly long to track
23:05
Speaker 1: her down in Kansas. Now, she wasn't close by where
23:08
Speaker 1: this happened, she was hours and hours away. But but
23:11
Speaker 1: that digital trail brought police right to her doorstep. It
23:14
Speaker 1: really did, Jacuelus cut to our cut eight. This is
23:18
Speaker 1: Kathleen Garrett on the TV show Solved. Wanted the exact
23:24
Speaker 1: web address of the breeders board, which I gave him,
23:28
Speaker 1: and I spelled out Darlene Fisher and also her email address,
23:34
Speaker 1: which was Fisher four Kids, which I thought was rather
23:37
Speaker 1: odd because it sounded like she was fishing for a
23:41
Speaker 1: kid or a child. I told him that the IP
23:45
Speaker 1: address appeared under every post and that I could give
23:48
Speaker 1: them the IP address. Ipadress is key information because there's
23:53
Speaker 1: only one computer. If we can trace that computer. As
23:56
Speaker 1: soon as we had that, I thought, if this baby's
23:58
Speaker 1: alive and Darlene Fisher is the one who took it,
24:01
Speaker 1: we can find her because we'll have her computer. Owen
24:05
Speaker 1: quickly traces the IP address to Darlene Fisher's Internet provider.
24:11
Speaker 1: I was able to determine it was assigned to QUEST
24:13
Speaker 1: Communications out of Virginia. Passed the information onto Special Agent
24:17
Speaker 1: Lapanovich and he called me later and he had Quest
24:20
Speaker 1: Communications on the phone. I explained to them that the
24:24
Speaker 1: nature of the situation that you had a murdered woman,
24:26
Speaker 1: that fetus had been cut from her and they thought
24:29
Speaker 1: that the baby would be viable and if this was
24:31
Speaker 1: an emergency, and we would provide them with paperwork, search warrant,
24:35
Speaker 1: grand jury subpoena down the road, and so they were
24:37
Speaker 1: very cooperative. Well there you hear it. And before I
24:40
Speaker 1: get into the forensic nature of finding an IP address,
24:44
Speaker 1: FYI your computer, you're a laptop, your iPad. Everyone has
24:50
Speaker 1: a unique IP Internet Provider address. It's like a fingerprint.
24:54
Speaker 1: So if you think you're getting away with something online,
24:56
Speaker 1: you're not too. Doctor Jeff Guardier renounce psychologists joining us.
25:01
Speaker 1: Doctor Gardier, have you? I find this very interesting, but
25:05
Speaker 1: you probably have a better grasp of what it means.
25:08
Speaker 1: The screen names people pick. I have one screen name
25:15
Speaker 1: that my first one ever on Aol dot com that's
25:19
Speaker 1: based on a ship, my favorite Shakespearean character, and anybody
25:23
Speaker 1: that knows me wouldn't know what it was. So what
25:26
Speaker 1: is it meaned? She has fisher four kids, like she's
25:30
Speaker 1: trying to find a child. That's exactly what it is.
25:35
Speaker 1: And so people sometimes use the screen names to bring
25:39
Speaker 1: the best of themselves out that they wish that they
25:43
Speaker 1: could live up to and actually surpass, as Nancy. I
25:47
Speaker 1: know you've done, but there are other people who are
25:49
Speaker 1: diabolical in the names that they choose, and in many
25:53
Speaker 1: ways gives us a clear indication as to what it is,
25:58
Speaker 1: what that desire is, what is that dark secret, what
26:02
Speaker 1: is the heinous perhaps behavior that they're looking to engage in.
26:07
Speaker 1: And so that's how we know that where there is smoke,
26:11
Speaker 1: there's fire. Do you think it's how they want to
26:16
Speaker 1: be perceived the screen name. I think that any and
26:22
Speaker 1: you know this too, anyone who engages in these types
26:26
Speaker 1: of crime are screaming out for help. They may not
26:30
Speaker 1: be psychotic, but certainly there is a mental instability to
26:33
Speaker 1: doing something like this. So they start throwing out those
26:37
Speaker 1: breadcrumbs even before they commit that particularly, say, right, hey,
26:42
Speaker 1: doctor Guardier, do you remember when you and I covered
26:46
Speaker 1: the allergist that killed his wife and his screen name
26:51
Speaker 1: was casual Guy two thousand. He was married with children,
26:54
Speaker 1: but his screen name was casual guy because he was
26:58
Speaker 1: looking for a casual sex Anthony Weener who was convicted,
27:05
Speaker 1: remember his name was Carlos Danger and he was convicted
27:12
Speaker 1: of various sex issues online to put it euphemistically, So
27:18
Speaker 1: your screen name tells a lot. And this part Lisa
27:21
Speaker 1: Montgomery just put to death screen name Fisher for Kids.
27:25
Speaker 1: She did a lot more than fish for children. According
27:28
Speaker 1: to prosecutors, she ripped a baby out of a living
27:31
Speaker 1: mom's stomach. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Thanks again for
27:47
Speaker 1: being with us many times. I would have a hard
27:50
Speaker 1: time telling Gerard's facts because they could be very distasteful,
27:55
Speaker 1: almost intolerable. But the reality is, you have to know
27:59
Speaker 1: the full and we have to know why this woman
28:02
Speaker 1: was put to death just hours ago. Straight back out
28:06
Speaker 1: to you, Ry Kiputo, Lady News anchored WDBO. How did
28:11
Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery Lord the victim Bibby Ji Stine intimating well
28:16
Speaker 1: through their love of dogs. They had initially met at
28:19
Speaker 1: a car dog show and they had conversed. I believe
28:22
Speaker 1: it was like a forum for people who loved dogs,
28:25
Speaker 1: so there was that connection. But also Lisa Montgomery had
28:29
Speaker 1: lied to her victim and told her she was pregnant too,
28:31
Speaker 1: So you know, between the pregnancy thing, which is a
28:34
Speaker 1: big deal in a woman's life, and then also their
28:36
Speaker 1: love for dogs, they developed a report. It allowed Miss
28:40
Speaker 1: Montgomery to actually gain access to the victim's house. So
28:45
Speaker 1: it's gonna be really, really hard. Ashley Willcott to argue
28:48
Speaker 1: any psychotic break that doctor Jeff Gardier pointing out was
28:54
Speaker 1: used by the defense that she had a psychotic break
28:56
Speaker 1: for this tiny period of time during the murder, when
28:58
Speaker 1: she had been laying the trap for days and days
29:02
Speaker 1: and days, luring the victim because they were both into dogs,
29:06
Speaker 1: claiming she also was pregnant. All the lies preceding the
29:11
Speaker 1: murder show premeditation. You can't plan a murder like this
29:15
Speaker 1: if you are insane, which in our country is, you
29:18
Speaker 1: don't know right from wrong at the time of the incident.
29:21
Speaker 1: You know, you just took all the words out of
29:22
Speaker 1: my mouth because I was just going to say, let's
29:24
Speaker 1: look at it strictly legally and exactly what you said, Nancy.
29:27
Speaker 1: First of all, whether or not they understood right from
29:30
Speaker 1: wrong is specifically right at the time of the crime. Right,
29:33
Speaker 1: and so they may be rational before, rational after, but
29:36
Speaker 1: not right at the time. But the way that this
29:39
Speaker 1: state proves, oh, that doesn't fly. That's not true. In
29:42
Speaker 1: this case. It was premeditated. Number one. All of those steps,
29:46
Speaker 1: finding someone, getting to know them, lying about also being pregnant,
29:50
Speaker 1: finding things in common to get close to get access
29:53
Speaker 1: to their victim. All of those things do show premeditation.
29:57
Speaker 1: But remember Nancy at the time of the crime, so
30:00
Speaker 1: I would suggest there's premeditation because she went to the
30:04
Speaker 1: home she found her. She specifically went to her with
30:08
Speaker 1: the intent to take the baby. That is not a
30:11
Speaker 1: psychotic break. That is all factual showing she knew what
30:16
Speaker 1: she was doing. Straight back to special Guests joining us
30:19
Speaker 1: at Percy pittser Federal Warding for thirty years career in
30:24
Speaker 1: Corrections at CCEF Scholarships dot Org. Percy, again, thank you
30:30
Speaker 1: for being with us. Why do you believe so few
30:33
Speaker 1: women are put to death under our country's death penalty? Well,
30:37
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's it's something new. I mean,
30:41
Speaker 1: like you said, sixty seven years and the female has
30:44
Speaker 1: been executed, and you know, people, I think I'm more
30:49
Speaker 1: reluctant to execute a female, you know. And why is
30:53
Speaker 1: my question? Probably politics? Probably society. You know, there's been
30:59
Speaker 1: eleven that executions in the last eighteen months. Yes, Nancy, Nancy,
31:07
Speaker 1: many times, many times we see that women who have
31:11
Speaker 1: committed these heinous crimes, certainly many of them come from
31:17
Speaker 1: very abused backgrounds. And therefore, since we do know that
31:22
Speaker 1: there are still prejudices and treating women as second class citizens.
31:28
Speaker 1: We tend to see that even though there are victims
31:31
Speaker 1: of and as we saw in this case, terrible victims
31:35
Speaker 1: of this particular crime are the crimes that many of
31:38
Speaker 1: these women commit. We see them as also being victims
31:42
Speaker 1: who are acting out, who are abused, and that's one
31:45
Speaker 1: of the reasons that we see less women receiving capital punishment.
31:51
Speaker 1: So you're saying that many women that end up in
31:55
Speaker 1: jail in prison have had horrible backgrounds such as being
31:59
Speaker 1: abused and so fourth, now, in my mind, that does
32:02
Speaker 1: not in any way negate the intent to murder this
32:09
Speaker 1: pregnant mom and the very long scheme this woman, Lisa Montgomery,
32:15
Speaker 1: came up with luring and lying to the victim to
32:17
Speaker 1: gain access to her home. Take a listen to our
32:20
Speaker 1: cut fifteen. As a matter of fact, this is exactly
32:24
Speaker 1: what was argued. And then a last ditch effort at
32:27
Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery's sister comes out describing what she says it
32:32
Speaker 1: was an abusive childhood. Listen. I am here because I
32:37
Speaker 1: want people to understand the creature that my sister endured
32:43
Speaker 1: her whole life, and that the thief that had let
32:47
Speaker 1: her down over and over and over again, the community
32:52
Speaker 1: had really let her down. The state of Kansas had
32:56
Speaker 1: really let her down. From her mother who's supposed to
33:01
Speaker 1: look her and protect her, to that didn't to a
33:05
Speaker 1: father who was supposed to be there and protect her,
33:08
Speaker 1: and he abandoned her. To the police officer that she
33:13
Speaker 1: told that she was being raped and he drove her
33:17
Speaker 1: to her house and dropped her off and drove away.
33:20
Speaker 1: To the judge that had heard from Judy, her mother
33:28
Speaker 1: that her stepfather was raping her, and he had said,
33:33
Speaker 1: why didn't you report this? But then he did nothing.
33:36
Speaker 1: You are hearing the claims the last ditch effort by
33:39
Speaker 1: the sister Alsa Montgomery, claiming her sister should not be
33:44
Speaker 1: put to death because she was abused as a child.
33:48
Speaker 1: I hear that, and it breaks my heart to hear
33:53
Speaker 1: anyone as abused as a child. But that in no
33:57
Speaker 1: way negates the intent to brew murder this young woman,
34:03
Speaker 1: to rake a puto wdbo. What about the baby? The
34:07
Speaker 1: baby Dancy is now no longer a baby. It's a teenager.
34:11
Speaker 1: She's sixteen years old, and she lives with her father.
34:14
Speaker 1: And if there's any silver lining to this, it's that
34:17
Speaker 1: that that child is grown up in She's still alive
34:20
Speaker 1: and she has her wife ahead of her. So the
34:22
Speaker 1: baby is now doing well and is now a young team.
34:26
Speaker 1: I don't want to negate the victim's life because so
34:31
Speaker 1: much focus has been on what the defendant did. This
34:36
Speaker 1: young woman fought for her life and to save her baby.
34:41
Speaker 1: I can only imagine the terror going through her mind
34:46
Speaker 1: when she was attacked. Take a listen to our friends
34:49
Speaker 1: at k MBC nine, cut thirteen. It took the jury
34:54
Speaker 1: less than five hours to reach their verdict. Montgomery's eyes
34:57
Speaker 1: were downcast and she cried quietly as the judge read
35:01
Speaker 1: the decision. Death for Lisa Montgomery and a lifetime of
35:04
Speaker 1: pain for her victim's family. This case has finally come
35:08
Speaker 1: to a close, but we will never stop missing Bobby Joe.
35:12
Speaker 1: She was a sweet and loving wife, daughter, and sister
35:16
Speaker 1: and would have been a wonderful mother. Becky Harper is
35:19
Speaker 1: the mom of twenty three year old Bobby Joe Stinnett,
35:22
Speaker 1: the grandmother of Victoria Joe. Becky found Bobby Joe's bloody
35:26
Speaker 1: and battered body in her skid Moore, Missouri home on
35:29
Speaker 1: December sixteenth, two thousand and four. Victoria Joe was recovered
35:34
Speaker 1: the next day at the Melbourne, Kansas home of Lisa Montgomery.
35:38
Speaker 1: Montgomery said, the baby was hers. It's a crime and
35:41
Speaker 1: so vile, so shocking, and it was premeditated. You can
35:46
Speaker 1: hear the victims mother hardly able to go on and
35:50
Speaker 1: speak following that jury verdict that handed down a death penalty.
35:54
Speaker 1: Remember the definitive this case drove about one hundred and
35:59
Speaker 1: seventy miles from Melverne, Kansas to get to Missouri to
36:05
Speaker 1: murder the victim in this case and cut her baby
36:09
Speaker 1: out of her stomach. In the last hours, the first
36:13
Speaker 1: woman sixty seven years has been put to death in
36:18
Speaker 1: a federal facility and Tarra Hote, God be with the
36:24
Speaker 1: victims and their families now Nancy Gray's crime story signing
36:30
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,