Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Advancing Pharmacy Education and the Future of Medication Innovation with Dr. Jan D. Hirsch

Transcript

Advancing Pharmacy Education and the Future of Medication Innovation with Dr. Jan D. Hirsch · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - Pharmacy has long been viewed as a cost
• 0:03
  - center, but that framing is starting to shift,
• 0:06
  - and chief pharmacy officers are driving the change.
• 0:09
  - Don Wright, pharmacy is one of the most
• 0:11
  - powerful financial and clinical levers the health system
• 0:14
  - has. The question is whether its leaders can
• 0:17
  - prove it, fund it, and scale it before
• 0:19
  - that window closes.
• 0:21
  - Becker's third annual fall chief pharmacy officer summit
• 0:24
  - is where that case gets built with 500
• 0:26
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• 0:29
  - of candid
• 0:30
  - executive level sessions on pharmacy's financial power, three
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• 0:35
  - specialty growth, automation,
• 0:37
  - and earning real influence at the top. You
• 0:40
  - can earn up to 6.67
• 0:42
  - CE credits all while being in a room
• 0:44
  - full of peers solving the same problems you
• 0:46
  - are. Join us November fourth through the sixth
• 0:49
  - in Chicago. Register on our events page at
• 0:51
  - beckers hospital review dot com by clicking on
• 0:54
  - the events tab in the upper
• 0:57
  - right. This is Gracelyn Keller with the Becker's
• 0:59
  - Healthcare podcast, and I'm excited today to be
• 1:01
  - joined by doctor Jan Hirsch, who is a
• 1:03
  - founding dean at the University of California Irvine
• 1:06
  - School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Science and a
• 1:09
  - professor of clinical pharmacy. So, doctor Hirsch, thank
• 1:12
  - you for being here. I would love to
• 1:13
  - have us start our conversation today
• 1:16
  - for you to introduce yourself and tell us
• 1:18
  - a little bit about your system
• 1:20
  - and more about your role as a founding
• 1:22
  - dean.
• 1:23
  - Sure. Thanks, Grace. And, also, thank you for
• 1:26
  - having me on on the podcast today. I'm
• 1:28
  - excited to tell you about all that we
• 1:30
  - have on going here. So my name is
• 1:32
  - Jan Hirsch.
• 1:33
  - I am the founding dean of the University
• 1:35
  - of California Irvine School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical
• 1:38
  - Sciences.
• 1:39
  - I am also a professor of clinical pharmacy
• 1:42
  - as you mentioned,
• 1:44
  - and that kind of means I started out
• 1:46
  - my career as a pharmacist.
• 1:48
  - That was my original,
• 1:50
  - training, And then I went on to,
• 1:53
  - get a PhD degree, and the PhD is
• 1:55
  - focused in pharmaceutical marketing and economics, which
• 1:59
  - sort of led me to the field of
• 2:01
  - pharmacoeconomics,
• 2:03
  - which has
• 2:04
  - really been, my career and research perspective. And
• 2:07
  - that's really what is that is looking at
• 2:10
  - the value of medications,
• 2:11
  - the value of medications or pharmacist services
• 2:15
  - on clinical,
• 2:16
  - economic, and quality of life kind of outcomes.
• 2:18
  - And
• 2:20
  - in that role of of being a pharmacoeconomic
• 2:22
  - researcher,
• 2:24
  - I have my career spans academia,
• 2:27
  - certainly, where I am now,
• 2:28
  - but I've also worked in the pharmaceutical,
• 2:31
  - industry field, managed care industry,
• 2:34
  - and even in the veterans health,
• 2:36
  - system as a pharmacist too. So that's kinda
• 2:39
  - a little bit of me in the background.
• 2:41
  - And my current role, which is founding dean,
• 2:45
  - I came here at the University of California
• 2:48
  - Irvine in
• 2:49
  - 2019,
• 2:51
  - and the charge was to establish,
• 2:53
  - a new school of pharmacy and pharmaceutical sciences.
• 2:57
  - We are the newest school in the nation.
• 3:01
  - And
• 3:02
  - when I came here,
• 3:03
  - we had one we were building on something
• 3:05
  - that was really, really strong. So it's not
• 3:08
  - just pharmacists that we're creating.
• 3:10
  - There was a, and there is, a very
• 3:12
  - strong pharmaceutical sciences department,
• 3:15
  - and that was established back in 2007.
• 3:18
  - So the school itself was established in 2020,
• 3:21
  - but we're kind of partially new and partially
• 3:24
  - very well established.
• 3:26
  - That pharmaceutical sciences department had a bachelor's,
• 3:30
  - of science pharmaceutical sciences,
• 3:32
  - a master's in pharmacology, and a PhD in
• 3:35
  - pharmacological
• 3:36
  - sciences.
• 3:37
  - That was all here when I came here
• 3:38
  - in 2019.
• 3:40
  - What we did to create a school,
• 3:43
  - UC Irvine wanted to create a doctor of
• 3:45
  - pharmacy program,
• 3:46
  - which we all call a PharmD program, and
• 3:49
  - that's a program that makes pharmacists.
• 3:51
  - And to do that, we added a whole
• 3:53
  - another department. We put all that together, started
• 3:55
  - the PharmD program, and then that became the
• 3:58
  - school officially in 2020.
• 4:00
  - So we really kinda created the school backwards.
• 4:03
  - Most pharmacy schools are built from the clinical
• 4:06
  - side if they're offering a PharmD program
• 4:08
  - first, and then they sprinkle in some pharmaceutical
• 4:12
  - sciences.
• 4:13
  - But we are actually based on pharmaceutical sciences,
• 4:15
  - which is really a strength and an important
• 4:18
  - differentiation
• 4:18
  - for us.
• 4:19
  - We have about 500 undergraduates and about 300
• 4:22
  - graduate students,
• 4:24
  - with us now.
• 4:26
  - So I came here to start a pharmacy
• 4:28
  - school, but it's not just a pharmacy school.
• 4:31
  - It is really I came to build a
• 4:33
  - truly impactful
• 4:35
  - health care ecosystem
• 4:37
  - because University of California Irvine was creating at
• 4:40
  - that time, and then we still are, a
• 4:42
  - college of health sciences.
• 4:44
  - And so the school of pharmacy is part
• 4:47
  - of this college of health sciences,
• 4:49
  - and there are three other schools, school of
• 4:51
  - medicine, school of nursing, school of public health,
• 4:53
  - and us, pharmacy and pharmaceutical sciences,
• 4:57
  - in that college of health sciences. And it
• 4:59
  - was beginning to be built also at the
• 5:01
  - same time.
• 5:02
  - And
• 5:03
  - we also are in the middle of a
• 5:05
  - a a big expansion of our health care
• 5:07
  - system. So to me,
• 5:09
  - I was drawn here to create a pharmacy
• 5:11
  - school in that ecosystem
• 5:12
  - because that is very, very, very different.
• 5:15
  - What that allows is us to have interprofessional
• 5:18
  - education
• 5:19
  - across the the physicians, nurses, public health, and
• 5:23
  - pharmacy,
• 5:24
  - and interprofessional
• 5:25
  - practice. We're training for that. And team based
• 5:28
  - patient care, this interprofessional
• 5:30
  - practice,
• 5:31
  - that type of care is the most effective
• 5:33
  - and is the most cost effective. It allows
• 5:35
  - everyone to practice
• 5:37
  - at the top of their license. So it
• 5:39
  - it impacts,
• 5:41
  - everyone, and it multiplies the impacts of all
• 5:43
  - those professions.
• 5:45
  - So, really, that's what drew me here to
• 5:47
  - create the school of pharmacy.
• 5:49
  - And it's not just the school of pharmacy.
• 5:52
  - It is within this ecosystem where our strength
• 5:54
  - is. So what do we do? We train
• 5:57
  - pharmacists. That's our new program,
• 6:00
  - but we also train pharmaceutical scientists.
• 6:02
  - Those are our two sides of the school
• 6:04
  - and our our products.
• 6:06
  - So before you ask me, Grace, I'm gonna
• 6:08
  - tell you why we do that and why
• 6:10
  - I believe this is our mission.
• 6:12
  - We we're trying to solve a big problem.
• 6:15
  - It's a May
• 6:17
  - problem, and let me tell you what that
• 6:19
  - is.
• 6:21
  - So
• 6:22
  - when prescribers prescribe medications,
• 6:24
  - prescription medications,
• 6:26
  - many different outcomes can occur.
• 6:29
  - Some people can take those medications, and they're
• 6:31
  - they are effective with no side effects. That's
• 6:33
  - great. There's a cost to that, but it's
• 6:35
  - the cost of the medications, etcetera.
• 6:38
  - Some of those people take those medications,
• 6:40
  - and they're actually the the medication fails. It
• 6:43
  - doesn't work.
• 6:44
  - So you have a treatment failure. You can't
• 6:46
  - leave the patient like that. There are follow
• 6:48
  - on costs. You still have to go back
• 6:51
  - and get new medications. They go to the
• 6:53
  - doctor's office visits, ER visits, hospitalizations.
• 6:57
  - There is a cascade of costs
• 6:59
  - associated with that treatment failure.
• 7:02
  - Some patients will take those medications.
• 7:04
  - It will work for them, but they will
• 7:06
  - get a new medical problem because of the
• 7:08
  - medication.
• 7:10
  - Same thing. You can't leave them there. They're
• 7:12
  - going to be follow on cost for that.
• 7:14
  - In some very unlucky patients, the treatment's going
• 7:17
  - to fail, and that medication's gonna cause a
• 7:20
  - new medication, a new, medical problem. There are
• 7:23
  - certainly follow on costs for that. If you
• 7:26
  - add all that up, it's been estimated in
• 7:28
  - an in one year in The US, that's
• 7:30
  - about a $528,000,000,000
• 7:32
  - problem.
• 7:33
  - And it also contributes to two hundred and
• 7:35
  - seventy five thousand lives,
• 7:38
  - that are that are lost.
• 7:40
  - So what we're trying to do is help
• 7:43
  - solve that problem,
• 7:44
  - and we've got two ways to do it.
• 7:46
  - I just told you we make we train
• 7:48
  - pharmacists,
• 7:49
  - and we train pharmaceutical scientists.
• 7:51
  - The way we're tackling that big problem is
• 7:54
  - pharmaceutical scientists, they make new drug discoveries
• 7:58
  - for better medications,
• 8:00
  - medications that are more effective,
• 8:02
  - fewer side effects, lower cost.
• 8:05
  - We're tackling that problem from the pharmaceutical scientist
• 8:07
  - side. But now because we have the PharmD
• 8:10
  - program, we're also tackling that problem from the
• 8:12
  - pharmacist side. And pharmacists help patients
• 8:15
  - and health care team members
• 8:18
  - manage medications.
• 8:19
  - Those are prescription meds,
• 8:21
  - over the counter meds,
• 8:22
  - but we shouldn't forget about supplements and herbal
• 8:25
  - medications, botanicals that that people take also.
• 8:29
  - And those are types of things that pharmacists
• 8:31
  - can help manage.
• 8:32
  - So I'm excited about what we're able to
• 8:34
  - create here in this multi,
• 8:36
  - professional
• 8:37
  - environment
• 8:39
  - working across the, professions.
• 8:42
  - And, absolutely,
• 8:43
  - from a pharmacy standpoint and pharmaceutical sciences standpoint,
• 8:47
  - that allows us to multiply our effect and
• 8:49
  - try to solve some of these really tough
• 8:51
  - health care problems we have.
• 8:53
  - Wonderful. Well, thank you for giving that overview.
• 8:56
  - And I would love to know specifically
• 8:58
  - in the pharmacy education and pharmaceutical science education
• 9:02
  - space what trends you're currently watching?
• 9:05
  - Well, as you can imagine, there there are
• 9:07
  - so many trends nowadays, right, to what to
• 9:10
  - to watch and try to keep up with,
• 9:12
  - and it's really hard to do that. But
• 9:14
  - my focus is looking at trends that
• 9:18
  - can help us
• 9:20
  - to optimize the medication regimens that are very
• 9:23
  - complex that are causing this $528,000,000,000
• 9:26
  - problem,
• 9:27
  - trying to look at trends that are helping
• 9:29
  - that, helping in creating better medications
• 9:33
  - where we have better results for the patients,
• 9:35
  - with their health outcomes, but also less wasted
• 9:38
  - cost,
• 9:39
  - both of those together. So a couple of
• 9:42
  - trends that
• 9:43
  - I follow, and they're very broad,
• 9:46
  - are are ways to help us improve medications
• 9:48
  - and their outcomes.
• 9:50
  - One is just this is really broad. It's
• 9:52
  - just technology.
• 9:54
  - There are just so many types,
• 9:58
  - new types
• 9:59
  - of modalities to prevent disease and treat disease
• 10:02
  - now,
• 10:04
  - that we are dealing with and within our
• 10:06
  - world looking at, you know, some of our
• 10:08
  - pharmaceutical scientists.
• 10:10
  - We certainly have stem cell therapies.
• 10:13
  - We now have gene therapies. We have immunotherapies.
• 10:17
  - All of these are are great, and they
• 10:20
  - are allowing us to really improve patient outcomes.
• 10:23
  - It allows us to get into precision medicine,
• 10:26
  - looking at your genes and and how is
• 10:28
  - that actually going to predict whether you respond
• 10:31
  - or you don't respond
• 10:32
  - to to medications and really being able to
• 10:35
  - do personalized medication management.
• 10:38
  - So these are amazing advances,
• 10:41
  - and they are resulting in more effective strategies
• 10:45
  - to prevent, which is what we really like
• 10:46
  - to do first,
• 10:48
  - prevent disease,
• 10:49
  - but also treat disease
• 10:51
  - and
• 10:52
  - possibly cure disease. In in the past, we
• 10:55
  - haven't had a lot of, modalities that let
• 10:57
  - us cure disease.
• 11:00
  - However and there's always a however grace, isn't
• 11:03
  - there,
• 11:03
  - to every story.
• 11:05
  - However,
• 11:06
  - because of these really, really new and exciting
• 11:08
  - new treatment modalities,
• 11:11
  - we are we are seeing really increasingly
• 11:14
  - complex medication regimens.
• 11:16
  - And when you see complex medication regimens, and
• 11:19
  - these are things like patients are taking lots
• 11:21
  - and lots of different medications,
• 11:23
  - or the prescribers are having to manage lots
• 11:26
  - and lots of different medications for their patients,
• 11:29
  - and these brand new treatment modalities, you can
• 11:32
  - see how it just gets complex. Right?
• 11:35
  - And that's difficult to manage.
• 11:37
  - Also, and the next thing that should pop
• 11:39
  - into your mind is
• 11:41
  - as we have these great new therapies,
• 11:43
  - these things come at a cost.
• 11:46
  - The costs are escalating.
• 11:49
  - Absolutely wonderful things that we can do with
• 11:51
  - these new medications
• 11:52
  - I mean, in the newspapers, you see this.
• 11:55
  - Certainly with, like,
• 11:56
  - ultra rare
• 11:58
  - genetic disorders, we see things that we're being
• 12:00
  - able to actually cure, which we never could
• 12:02
  - have done before, but we can do that
• 12:04
  - with gene therapy now. But those are millions
• 12:07
  - of dollars. The costs are really high.
• 12:10
  - But
• 12:11
  - you also have to think about, well, that's
• 12:13
  - a high cost of that medication.
• 12:16
  - Yes. It is.
• 12:17
  - But what are we saving?
• 12:19
  - And this is where I think there there's
• 12:21
  - hope, and this is where I think these
• 12:23
  - new technologies,
• 12:25
  - gene therapy, immunotherapy
• 12:27
  - type things are really gonna help us over
• 12:29
  - time. I'm certainly hopeful. And I and I
• 12:32
  - and I think they will. We will have
• 12:34
  - more effective strategies.
• 12:35
  - They're more effective,
• 12:37
  - fewer side effects,
• 12:39
  - and those are real opportunities to improve individual
• 12:42
  - patient health,
• 12:43
  - but overall, the whole population health,
• 12:46
  - that we have in The US.
• 12:48
  - And if you can do that,
• 12:50
  - you're really offsetting other costs.
• 12:53
  - If you can cure something, if you can
• 12:54
  - treat it better,
• 12:55
  - you're offsetting other costs that would have been
• 12:58
  - incurred
• 12:59
  - because that was gonna be a chronic disease
• 13:01
  - that was going to be needed to to
• 13:03
  - treat over a lifetime.
• 13:06
  - So I I those are types of things,
• 13:08
  - this new technology for new modalities
• 13:11
  - to treat disease, but also prevent it and
• 13:13
  - cure it. So I I watched that, and
• 13:16
  - then I have one other
• 13:18
  - big area, which which can't have any conversation
• 13:21
  - now
• 13:22
  - without talking about AI.
• 13:24
  - And AI
• 13:25
  - and that's a very broad, broad, broad topic.
• 13:27
  - But from my perspective,
• 13:30
  - I'm looking at ways that AI is being
• 13:33
  - utilized or can be utilized
• 13:36
  - to improve
• 13:37
  - drug discovery first.
• 13:40
  - Drug discovery
• 13:41
  - is
• 13:42
  - is a long term process now.
• 13:45
  - You've seen statistics. I'm sure many,
• 13:47
  - people have. But basically,
• 13:49
  - to get a drug from discovery
• 13:52
  - to approval, FDA approval,
• 13:54
  - it's ten, fifteen years.
• 13:57
  - And it's, you know, 1,000,000,000, 2,000,000,000, some people
• 14:00
  - say $3,000,000,000
• 14:01
  - in cost.
• 14:03
  - And if you think about what AI can
• 14:05
  - do in the drug discovery world and is
• 14:07
  - starting to do now,
• 14:09
  - it is really speeding that up speeding that
• 14:12
  - up in a way that also we are
• 14:15
  - incurring
• 14:15
  - less cost.
• 14:17
  - So one of the things you can think
• 14:18
  - about is disease targets,
• 14:21
  - the biology of our bodies.
• 14:23
  - Certain things happen. There are disease pathways.
• 14:27
  - AI can be used to predict better predict
• 14:30
  - which one of those pathways
• 14:31
  - is what we would call druggable that we
• 14:33
  - could actually
• 14:34
  - develop a medication for. You can't always develop
• 14:37
  - a medication for something that's happening in the
• 14:39
  - body, but AI can help us figure that
• 14:41
  - out in much less of an experimental fashion,
• 14:45
  - but more in a predictability
• 14:46
  - type of modeling fashion. You can think about
• 14:49
  - new molecules.
• 14:50
  - New molecules, those go on to become drugs,
• 14:54
  - you know, and AI can help us identify
• 14:57
  - characteristics of new model molecules, things to test,
• 15:00
  - things that we couldn't do as quickly as
• 15:04
  - AI would let us do it now.
• 15:06
  - And another area AI is helping with actually
• 15:09
  - is screening for
• 15:12
  - drugs that we have on the market now.
• 15:14
  - So these are marketed medications,
• 15:16
  - but let's repurpose those. Repurpose them for new
• 15:20
  - indications. These medications have been utilized
• 15:23
  - for other
• 15:25
  - disease days or indications,
• 15:26
  - and they've been proven to be effective in
• 15:28
  - those other indications
• 15:30
  - and safe, and that's the important part,
• 15:32
  - safe first.
• 15:34
  - But AI can help us try to find
• 15:36
  - new indications for those safe medications we're already
• 15:39
  - using.
• 15:40
  - And and those can be certainly a cost
• 15:42
  - savings.
• 15:43
  - And then those are all kinda discovery types
• 15:46
  - of things.
• 15:47
  - But as you
• 15:49
  - discover a medication and you move it towards
• 15:51
  - humans, you go into clinical trials.
• 15:54
  - And the use of AI in clinical trials
• 15:56
  - is really exciting.
• 15:58
  - It from all all sorts of reasons because
• 16:01
  - you can use AI to predict
• 16:04
  - the who's gonna be a better candidate for
• 16:06
  - a particular clinical trial.
• 16:09
  - You can use it to design how how
• 16:11
  - the,
• 16:12
  - you're predicting impact
• 16:14
  - in that trial. You can use it to
• 16:16
  - design better analysis of that trial. Lots and
• 16:19
  - lots and lots of possibilities with clinical trials.
• 16:23
  - All those things I mentioned, and there's a
• 16:24
  - lot more.
• 16:26
  - All those things I mentioned come together
• 16:29
  - to
• 16:30
  - reduce the time
• 16:32
  - of getting a drug that's discovered
• 16:34
  - to the market and to patients,
• 16:37
  - and definitely reduce the cost.
• 16:40
  - So AI is just amazing in a drug
• 16:42
  - discovery
• 16:43
  - realm to me.
• 16:45
  - The the other thing I think about for
• 16:47
  - AI, because again,
• 16:49
  - in our school, we're looking at the drug
• 16:51
  - discovery side with our pharmaceutical scientists, but we're
• 16:54
  - also looking at that pharmacy practice side with
• 16:56
  - our pharmacists that we are, training.
• 16:59
  - Certainly, in pharmacy practice, think of pharmacies.
• 17:02
  - AI is already being used in many ways
• 17:04
  - for the pharmacy operations, automatic dispensing,
• 17:07
  - inventory management,
• 17:09
  - lots of things like that.
• 17:11
  - But it can and is starting to go
• 17:13
  - much further than that
• 17:14
  - using AI to improve things like personalized dosing.
• 17:18
  - I go back to that personalization
• 17:20
  - of medications,
• 17:22
  - personalized
• 17:23
  - interaction warnings.
• 17:24
  - And it's not doing it independently,
• 17:26
  - but these are clinical decision tools
• 17:29
  - that AI can help the pharmacist and other
• 17:31
  - health care professionals with. Patient adherence,
• 17:35
  - smart devices, virtual assistance,
• 17:38
  - all those types of things that AI can
• 17:40
  - help us with can help patients be more
• 17:42
  - adherent
• 17:43
  - on to their medications.
• 17:45
  - If patients aren't adherent to their medications, meaning
• 17:48
  - they take the medications on a regular basis
• 17:51
  - as prescribed,
• 17:53
  - then it's a waste of money for them
• 17:54
  - to have that medication.
• 17:56
  - So I think there's a lot of opportunity
• 17:58
  - there that is being realized,
• 18:00
  - with AI, but it's just we're just at
• 18:02
  - the very, very, very, beginning of all that.
• 18:05
  - Not to mention
• 18:06
  - wearables, telemonitoring,
• 18:08
  - lots of things like that. And
• 18:10
  - another area for AI in that air arena
• 18:13
  - is data analytics.
• 18:15
  - We are collecting all of this data
• 18:18
  - through a lot of these digital help tool
• 18:20
  - tools.
• 18:21
  - Analyzing that data with AI is going to
• 18:23
  - be tremendously,
• 18:24
  - powerful, I think, to help us improve patient
• 18:27
  - care.
• 18:28
  - Absolutely.
• 18:29
  - And shifting gears a little bit to you
• 18:31
  - specifically, I'd love to know what you're most
• 18:34
  - focused on and excited about and then also
• 18:36
  - what you are most proud of from the
• 18:37
  - last
• 18:39
  - six months to a year.
• 18:41
  - So,
• 18:44
  - obviously,
• 18:44
  - I'm
• 18:45
  - I am focused and and very excited about
• 18:48
  - the continued growth
• 18:50
  - of our school of pharmacy and pharmaceutical sciences.
• 18:54
  - We've
• 18:55
  - it's it's kinda built. We stood it up.
• 18:58
  - We've got it to that point.
• 19:00
  - We're six years old now as a school
• 19:02
  - entity.
• 19:03
  - I'm really focused and so excited to to
• 19:06
  - look forward to see how we're going to
• 19:08
  - grow,
• 19:09
  - both in our research, but also our education.
• 19:12
  - Because we are educating,
• 19:14
  - you know, these leaders
• 19:16
  - and the the pharmaceutical sciences and pharmacists.
• 19:19
  - And I I I really sit back and
• 19:21
  - smile. I really sit back and smile and
• 19:23
  - say, yes. This this is gonna be
• 19:26
  - fun to watch, fun to be involved with.
• 19:28
  - We have really so much potential. So
• 19:31
  - certainly the growth of our school in so
• 19:33
  - many ways.
• 19:35
  - Then
• 19:36
  - the other area, and
• 19:38
  - this really isn't in my mind. This is
• 19:39
  - why I do this job.
• 19:41
  - It's for the students,
• 19:43
  - and
• 19:44
  - I am so proud of them.
• 19:47
  - Again, we have probably 800
• 19:49
  - total,
• 19:50
  - 500 undergraduates, about 300 plus,
• 19:52
  - graduates.
• 19:54
  - They're they're here. Our students are here, and
• 19:56
  - they are dedicated. They have chosen
• 19:59
  - to dedicate themselves to improving the health of
• 20:01
  - others.
• 20:02
  - It's all about the patient, and that's
• 20:05
  - that that's a driving force.
• 20:07
  - I I love to interact with the with
• 20:09
  - the students, and I'm very proud of them.
• 20:11
  - I'm also very proud of the fact that
• 20:14
  - our student body, our undergrads and our student
• 20:16
  - pharmacists,
• 20:17
  - almost 40% of them are first generation students.
• 20:21
  - So we are opening doors
• 20:24
  - for higher education for those students, but that's
• 20:27
  - also for their families.
• 20:29
  - And that's going to expand the reach
• 20:32
  - of when they graduate,
• 20:34
  - where are these students going? They're going back
• 20:36
  - to serve their communities.
• 20:38
  - Grace, I don't know if you know it
• 20:39
  - or not, but,
• 20:41
  - UC Irvine is a minority serving institution,
• 20:44
  - and it's also Hispanic serving institution.
• 20:47
  - And I'm really proud that our students being
• 20:51
  - some of them being very new in our
• 20:52
  - PharmD program,
• 20:53
  - you know,
• 20:54
  - we're upholding that. And we are also,
• 20:57
  - really improving
• 20:59
  - the diversity
• 21:01
  - of our pharmaceutical scientists, but also our pharmacists
• 21:04
  - and,
• 21:05
  - when they go out into communities.
• 21:07
  - So the students I'm really proud of, I
• 21:10
  - have to give a shout out to the
• 21:11
  - graduates.
• 21:13
  - Our PharmD class, the doctor pharmacy class,
• 21:17
  - we they're just getting started. We just graduated
• 21:19
  - our first class, so we do have alumni
• 21:22
  - in that,
• 21:23
  - PharmD class now. So that's great. Very exciting
• 21:25
  - there, and that gave us full accreditation for
• 21:27
  - our program, the PharmD program.
• 21:29
  - But for students that have been here, remember
• 21:32
  - that pharmaceutical sciences department has been here since
• 21:35
  - 2007.
• 21:36
  - Our bachelor's, master's, and PhD
• 21:39
  - students,
• 21:40
  - I'm really proud of them because I look
• 21:42
  - at, like, they're where they're being employed, and
• 21:44
  - they are being employed. And they are taking
• 21:47
  - what they've learned here out to improve the
• 21:50
  - medications that we're developing or discovering
• 21:52
  - in in many different ways.
• 21:54
  - Our bachelor's program, those students that are graduating
• 21:57
  - from the bachelor's in pharmaceutical sciences,
• 22:01
  - 80% or slightly more even will go on
• 22:04
  - to pursue a health related career.
• 22:06
  - So that's gonna be great impact.
• 22:09
  - Our master's students, it's actually an online program
• 22:12
  - of, working individuals, and these are individuals working
• 22:16
  - in pharma or biotech already.
• 22:19
  - They actually their outcomes, they are advancing their
• 22:22
  - careers because of that,
• 22:25
  - master's program.
• 22:26
  - Our PhD students,
• 22:29
  - very excited that they are they are they
• 22:31
  - are well sought after,
• 22:34
  - and the major place they go is the
• 22:36
  - pharmaceutical industry after they graduate.
• 22:39
  - So I know that we are creating, and
• 22:41
  - I'm so proud of them.
• 22:43
  - We're creating
• 22:44
  - professionals
• 22:45
  - that are going to go out there
• 22:47
  - and try to solve
• 22:49
  - in many different ways that $528,000,000,000
• 22:52
  - problem and improve the health of our communities,
• 22:55
  - of our of our nation, really.
• 22:58
  - Absolutely. Well, thank you for sharing that. And
• 23:00
  - to wrap up our conversation,
• 23:02
  - I would love to know what advice you
• 23:04
  - have
• 23:05
  - for emerging leaders or people who would like
• 23:08
  - to be in your position one day, a
• 23:11
  - leadership position in academia in the pharmacy world?
• 23:15
  - Sure. I have lots of lots and lots
• 23:17
  - of thoughts about that. I think that the
• 23:19
  - leading thought
• 23:21
  - is to be a leader
• 23:23
  - in health care regardless of what type of
• 23:26
  - health care situation you're in. Health care is
• 23:28
  - different, and I think it's something you need
• 23:30
  - to be keenly aware of. The consumer
• 23:33
  - is not a client or a customer.
• 23:36
  - It is a patient,
• 23:38
  - and that affects and it should affect your
• 23:41
  - decision making. It's not just a profit and
• 23:43
  - loss.
• 23:44
  - That's a person there that you are responsible
• 23:47
  - for in some shape or form. That's the
• 23:50
  - end of the line, that patient.
• 23:52
  - And every sector I've worked in, and I've
• 23:54
  - worked in a lot, right, pharma, managed care,
• 23:57
  - community pharmacy, academia,
• 23:59
  - that patient
• 24:00
  - has always been at the table
• 24:03
  - to a greater or lesser degree depending on
• 24:05
  - how close you are to the patient environment.
• 24:09
  - But that really adds another dimension to your
• 24:11
  - decision making as a leader. As you're at
• 24:13
  - that table and you are
• 24:16
  - you're making decisions, either for groups, populations of
• 24:18
  - patients, small groups of patients, or individual patients,
• 24:22
  - people you're working with in that, not all
• 24:24
  - of those individuals in that organization that you're
• 24:26
  - responsible for as a leader
• 24:29
  - view that relationship with the patient the same
• 24:31
  - way.
• 24:32
  - It's really it's viewed through their experiences
• 24:35
  - or lack
• 24:36
  - of experience with patients.
• 24:38
  - So some people you'll be working with as
• 24:40
  - a leader in health care are health care
• 24:42
  - professionals.
• 24:43
  - Obviously, they have a perspective on patients.
• 24:45
  - Some, I would say, all pretty much, almost
• 24:48
  - all are patients themselves in some way or
• 24:50
  - the other.
• 24:51
  - Or those might be caregivers.
• 24:53
  - Some may not really have contact with patients.
• 24:57
  - These are people that we're trying to make
• 24:59
  - better.
• 25:00
  - So when you're a leader in the health
• 25:01
  - care system,
• 25:03
  - my advice is to always keep it in
• 25:05
  - mind
• 25:06
  - that that patient is the end of the
• 25:08
  - line,
• 25:09
  - but
• 25:10
  - the people you're working with in your your
• 25:12
  - environment
• 25:13
  - that you're leading are gonna have different views
• 25:15
  - of that depending on how close
• 25:18
  - or far they are from the real patient
• 25:20
  - experience.
• 25:21
  - So that's an overall thing I think about
• 25:23
  - health care, and I've seen it play out
• 25:25
  - lots of ways.
• 25:26
  - I have learned
• 25:28
  - a few practical lessons
• 25:30
  - as a a leader in various
• 25:32
  - organizations.
• 25:33
  - First and foremost,
• 25:35
  - I would say,
• 25:36
  - ask questions.
• 25:38
  - Ask questions. Ask questions. Ask questions.
• 25:41
  - One, you you make better decisions because you're
• 25:44
  - getting answers and you're taking those into account.
• 25:46
  - But part of it is, as a leader,
• 25:48
  - you need to make sure you really understand
• 25:50
  - the decisions that you make. Don't sign anything
• 25:53
  - you you don't understand
• 25:55
  - kind of,
• 25:56
  - mentality there. But don't be afraid to ask
• 25:59
  - questions. You're you don't have to have all
• 26:00
  - the answers.
• 26:02
  - Second
• 26:03
  - is make time for people.
• 26:05
  - I think,
• 26:07
  - we all know and networking is important,
• 26:09
  - you know, those types of things. But from
• 26:11
  - a leader standpoint in organization,
• 26:14
  - the people that are in your organization, regardless
• 26:16
  - if they report directly to you or
• 26:18
  - tangentially,
• 26:20
  - they are your partners,
• 26:22
  - and literally, they are your success.
• 26:26
  - You know, you you're a leader at some
• 26:28
  - point in time,
• 26:29
  - but you're working through all of these people.
• 26:32
  - And so you need to make time for
• 26:33
  - them. You need to make time to understand
• 26:36
  - who they are, and, again, ask questions
• 26:38
  - from them. Yes. The an organization
• 26:41
  - is people.
• 26:43
  - And then I have
• 26:45
  - one last one, which really is from my
• 26:47
  - career for for anybody. I think it's for
• 26:49
  - leaders.
• 26:50
  - It's also for people. I tell this to
• 26:52
  - students,
• 26:54
  - anyone planning their career,
• 26:56
  - and take calculated risks.
• 27:00
  - And take calculated risk in what you're doing
• 27:03
  - as you move through your career. And this
• 27:05
  - is the same thing for leaders.
• 27:06
  - You need to think about where you're going.
• 27:10
  - You know. And I think we always give
• 27:12
  - the advice to follow your passion, and I
• 27:14
  - truly believe in that.
• 27:15
  - Follow your passion. You do not know where
• 27:17
  - it's going to take you.
• 27:19
  - I also and I try to practice this.
• 27:21
  - Try not to doubt yourself,
• 27:24
  - but realize you're gonna make mistakes, and that's
• 27:26
  - okay.
• 27:28
  - Learn from them. And that's important
• 27:30
  - that regardless if you're a leader or not,
• 27:32
  - just learn from your mistakes. And more importantly,
• 27:35
  - it'd be really nice if you can learn
• 27:36
  - from mistakes from others. Right? That's where asking
• 27:39
  - questions.
• 27:40
  - How did this work out for you? You
• 27:41
  - know, take learn from mistakes from others.
• 27:44
  - And
• 27:45
  - finally, in taking these calculated risk,
• 27:48
  - what I have learned
• 27:50
  - is that to trust yourself.
• 27:52
  - You know who you are and you know
• 27:54
  - who you are not.
• 27:56
  - And that knowing that
• 27:58
  - will kind of triangulate
• 27:59
  - you in your career,
• 28:01
  - but but it also will help you make
• 28:03
  - decisions and work with people, as a leader.
• 28:07
  - Wonderful. Well, doctor Hirsch, thank you so much
• 28:09
  - for joining me today on the Becker's healthcare
• 28:12
  - podcast and sharing these thoughts and insights.
• 28:15
  - And I appreciate you spending the time, with
• 28:18
  - to share these things with our audience.
• 28:20
  - Thank you so much for,
• 28:22
  - having me. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you
• 28:24
  - so much, Grace. I'm very nice to meet
• 28:25
  - you, Grace.