Latest / UK Column Radio / Jerm’s Christmas Banter with Mike and Charles

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Jerm’s Christmas Banter with Mike and Charles · UK Column Radio

0:35
None. But I'd like to believe still
0:40
that that that centre is somewhere out there.
0:44
I, I would absolutely agree with you.
0:46
That's entirely my position as well.
0:48
Not not just on him, but on, on a load of, of other things, all
0:53
the things that are, I mean, you know, I think there is a, there
0:55
is an interesting inversion. The things that we are told do
0:58
exist that we have to believe in.
1:01
I would agree with you. I think the majority of our
1:03
audience are at least skeptical on that.
1:05
And then the things that we're not supposed to believe in.
1:08
All right, yes, thank you. So we're going to a commercial
1:11
break. The things that we're not
1:14
supposed to believe in. I I think by and large, I
1:18
probably do. Yeah.
1:20
Not this monster. Absolutely.
1:22
It's there somewhere. I haven't seen it.
1:24
I. Like your jersey, Charles?
1:26
It's got that Love Actually vibe going.
1:29
Mike, I like your Grinch vibe. Bah humbug.
1:34
Yeah, I should point out that my jumper was given to me.
1:38
I, I, I did not select or purchase it myself.
1:41
I should just make that clear at the outset that I was given it
1:44
by a very kind and special person.
1:47
So lucky me. That you call it a jumper.
1:52
Yeah. So from my understanding, I
1:54
mean, I'm not British. That's a very British thing,
1:57
isn't it? Well, that.
2:01
That that style that you've got going there it.
2:06
Could be a bit of a stretch. What do you mean sort of
2:09
slightly tasteless? Patterns in I've only ever seen
2:12
it on. I've only ever seen it on
2:13
British movies. I've I've never seen anybody in
2:16
real life wear something like that.
2:18
I I don't know, I think, I think at this time of year, Americans
2:22
are also prone to wearing such things.
2:24
I'm only saying that because I think in wasn't it in Trains,
2:29
Planes and Automobiles that John Candy wore similar?
2:33
Actually. I might be confusing that with
2:35
something else, but I think there is AI think there is a
2:38
type of American man in particular that would wear a
2:42
jumper a little bit like this, but that's probably it.
2:44
You're right, I'm not sure that anyone else does in the rest of
2:47
the world is. This.
2:47
Is this going to be the theme of this program that we go around
2:50
all the various nationalities and slack them off?
2:52
Is that what we're doing today? Well, since we've premised
2:55
everything on on on Christmas, what is your general view on it?
3:00
Is it just some kind of commercialization racket?
3:04
I mean, that is pretty much what it is.
3:06
But there is a sense of joy which I think is very difficult
3:09
to replicate, particularly where kids are concerned Do.
3:15
You want Mike to answer that? Yes, yeah, either or.
3:19
Yeah, I think yeah. OK.
3:22
On the on the I don't mean it's not, it's not cynicism.
3:27
It is just an appraisal of the reality of it.
3:29
Yes, I'm afraid to say it. It is and has become more and
3:33
more of a commercial onslaught and in in every respect.
3:39
And I was just thinking how, you know, part of it is the forced
3:45
indulgence, the idea that, oh, you know, it's Christmas, so you
3:48
just stuff yourself with all sorts of things that.
3:52
Experience of the last 24 hours, Charles is that.
3:55
Charles I mean, I may or may not be, but, but let's put that to a
3:58
piece of it. And the The thing is that
4:01
you're, you know, you're sort of conditioned into it.
4:02
So, you know, you have you have an enormous amount of this, that
4:04
and the other. And then what happens in
4:07
January? Actually, they're trying to push
4:09
it through now, but the idea that, you know, there's a sort
4:11
of an epidemic of flu in particular, or some, some
4:16
condition that's supposedly A contagion, when in actual fact,
4:21
you think, well, what's everyone been doing for the last two
4:23
weeks? Drinking too much, eating too
4:26
much of the wrong stuff, staying up late, you know, basically
4:29
abusing themselves in a way that they wouldn't ordinarily, not to
4:33
that extent. And, and actually who cleans up,
4:36
you know, the, the Pharmaceutical industry in that
4:38
particular respect, or of course, gyms with all the
4:42
memberships as people convince themselves that they're going to
4:45
take exercise and this, that and the other.
4:46
So that there is a there, there absolutely is a sort of sad
4:50
element to it, I think, where people do flog themselves and
4:55
then end up paying for it whilst convincing themselves that it's
4:58
all fun at the time. So I don't, I don't mean to sort
5:01
of put a downer on it, but but no, I think I hope that a lot of
5:05
people do really do get the joy out of it.
5:07
And I don't mean that in in, in this sort of sense of the true
5:12
meaning of Christmas, because I, I'm afraid to say that I think
5:15
is lost on the vast majority of people.
5:17
But what I am absolutely in favour of is people having that
5:20
time to spend, you know, in consideration of things that
5:25
they wouldn't ordinarily be thinking about.
5:26
And if that, if they've got a long enough period to do that,
5:29
which I'm afraid a lot of people haven't because the crazy sort
5:34
of work environment is such that so many industries now either
5:38
remain open for the whole period or people get very, very limited
5:41
time For me, why on earth, you know, you absolutely have to for
5:45
some very compelling reason. Why do people have to work
5:47
between Christmas and New Year? It's always seemed completely
5:50
insane to me. And, you know, as though it is a
5:53
deliberate attempt to jeopardize the, the quality of family life.
5:59
I mean, I think if everywhere, I think I've said this before, but
6:01
I, I really do fervently believe that if we shut the country down
6:04
for two weeks, that we would live in a better world.
6:08
People would absolutely be refreshed and reinvigorated.
6:15
And I think that, you know, generally we'd have a lot less
6:18
drama. I, I can't substantiate that
6:20
because look how lockdown went. But, and obviously I don't mean
6:24
it like that, but I just mean people Downing tools and just,
6:26
you know, not having to concentrate on either consuming
6:29
absolutely everything in terms of buying or eating or drinking.
6:35
But also just, you know, just just having the time to reflect
6:40
and and wind down, which is why we are shutting down tomorrow
6:45
for two weeks. Exactly.
6:46
Yeah. Yeah, Look, the, the reason why
6:48
I'm asking about, you know, your views on on Christmas is because
6:53
I, as a political cartoonist of two decades, have been consumed
6:57
by cynicism and sort of pessimism and the negative
7:00
outlook on on all things because it's just a perpetual cycle of
7:05
criticism. That's what makes humor,
7:07
unfortunately. But as you get older and you get
7:11
kids, you you, you kind of realize that you you want any
7:16
excuse for some joy it. It, you know, like everything,
7:21
it is what you make of it and it it all depends on your attitude
7:25
to to it and to everything. I mean, some people seem to look
7:32
dread Christmas because because when they get together as a
7:34
family, they end up, you know, fighting war with each other.
7:38
Yeah. And and, you know, what's the
7:40
point? So don't mean just don't get
7:42
together under the circumstances.
7:43
But, but you know, for, for, for, for us, I think it is many,
7:50
many people are living in, in away from where they grew up and
7:54
from where the, the base of their family is.
7:56
And it's, it's good to go back and, and just chill for a little
7:59
while, as Charles says, and and reflect.
8:05
The, the only thing I find funny about it was a bit of a shame.
8:08
It's that on the on the sort of coming together thing.
8:11
It's why people don't make more of an effort to do it more
8:13
often. And OK, not for such an extended
8:16
period of time, but for example, we, we had our Church Carroll
8:21
service last weekend at home. It was lovely.
8:26
You know, it always is every year.
8:27
It's, it's great. It, it goes very well.
8:29
It's, you know, it's a very sort of small rural community, but
8:33
the church is always packed with cattle service.
8:35
And I'm not trying to ram the Church of England's message down
8:38
anyone's throat but that. And, and that is not why people
8:41
go to a Carroll service, but why, given the amount of
8:46
pleasure that people do get from that, why do they not turn up to
8:49
either that or something else on a more regular basis?
8:52
And I think that's the that's the shame of it is people seeing
8:56
the, the joy that is created by coming together for, you know,
9:01
what's regarded as a as a positive reason and to catch up
9:04
and this, that and the other. And yet for the for the
9:06
remainder of the year, you know, people just vanish, disappear
9:10
and, and, and that and that's the end of it.
9:11
And I, and I think, you know, I'm sure what I'm describing is
9:15
absolutely played out up and down the land, certainly in the
9:18
smaller communities. And I do think that is a great
9:20
pity, especially with the way, you know, in the, in the UK, the
9:25
way that the the economy has evolved.
9:29
And now for an awful lot of small towns and villages,
9:32
actually a church is perhaps the only thing that's left that
9:35
could be a focal point. You know, pubs have gone, sort
9:39
of community halls, community centres have gone and therefore
9:43
there is only a church. And I think people get put off
9:46
thinking, Oh, well, you know, that's not really my thing,
9:51
forgetting, of course, that the, the thing really should be the
9:53
people in it and it, and it's really up to you as to whether
9:56
you want to engage any more than that.
9:59
But the but you know, this, this sort of speaks to the whole
10:03
point. And well, you know, the, the,
10:05
the process of isolating us and, and separating us.
10:09
This is one part of it. And in, in, you know, I know
10:12
we've talked about the Church of England quite a lot.
10:13
I think necessarily so. And when one considers the sort
10:17
of, you know, cock up or conspiracy element of it, you
10:21
know, has the Church of England pushed people into such a
10:24
terrible place or pushed itself into such a terrible place with
10:28
this specific intent, you know, in order to disrupt community
10:32
life? I mean, I, I don't know, but it
10:34
is an obvious consequence of the, the disaster that the
10:38
Church of England has become in particular, I would say.
10:42
I would say the Church as a whole actually, not just the
10:45
Church of England. Yeah, yeah.
10:46
All right. Yeah, yeah.
10:48
Fair enough. I think.
10:49
I think that's no, that's true. I'll, I'll chat you guys about
10:53
some of the shows that I've done for UK column this year that
10:56
that I've had a big impact on, on me or some impact on me.
10:58
And I'm going to see if, if, if you guys can relate.
11:02
And I think one of the very first shows that I did was with
11:05
Yorks Lundgreber about AI not taking over the world.
11:08
And that really influenced me in a significant way because I had
11:12
never thought of AI in the way that that he explained and that
11:16
it was just a series of algorithms with human engagement
11:21
interaction and it has no will or desire.
11:24
So it can't possibly ever take over.
11:26
I think that that there's a lot to be said for that.
11:29
However, it's not entirely our own choice.
11:33
I think I'm actually extremely pessimistic about the economic
11:39
impact today. I is going to have very, very
11:43
quickly now actually because because undoubtedly it is
11:46
developing extremely fast and actually when when Yost was
11:51
giving that interview, even in this in this since that point,
11:57
it has developed extremely quickly.
12:00
And I think that the issue here is that the corporate entities
12:06
that provide so many people with their economic foundation are
12:11
looking at AI with dollar signs in their eyes.
12:14
And they're actually looking very seriously at how quickly
12:18
they can get rid of their human employees because AI is so much
12:22
less expensive and doesn't require the same kind of
12:26
management and so on. And I think that very, very
12:31
quickly, we're going to see a large rise in unemployment in
12:36
the Western world. And I think that companies are
12:39
going to overstep because they're going to think that, you
12:45
know, they're, they're buying into the, the BS of AI and
12:48
they're going to think that it's going to solve all kinds of
12:52
problems for them. And they're going to overreact
12:53
and they're going to over fire people.
12:56
They're going to have to hire some of those people back when
12:58
they discover it's not quite what they think it is, but it's,
13:02
they're still not going to hire back the same number of people
13:04
that they are currently employing.
13:06
So I think, I think it is actually going to have a very
13:09
detrimental effect on many people for, for a period of time
13:14
until we get a few things sorted out.
13:15
It's not going to be an easy few years for people that, that's,
13:20
that's my assessment of it. And actually, ultimately, I
13:22
believe that that the some people have an idea of the
13:28
future of humanity as as just being consumers.
13:32
And that's, that's really what we saw during the lockdown
13:35
period was a pilot scheme for this.
13:37
We put people on furlough schemes.
13:40
And of course, if AI robotics, if they ever get to the point
13:43
that AI and robotics are, are, are doing all this sort of
13:48
production side of the economy and, and money generation side
13:53
of the economy, then they can't actually afford to just hand out
13:56
money and form of universal basic income.
13:59
And I think that's, that's the ultimate destination, the
14:02
ultimate control mechanism. We're sitting at home vegetating
14:05
on our, on our sofas, watching Netflix and other AI generated
14:10
dross. And we take our money from the
14:13
government and of course we, we have obligations to meet in
14:17
order to get that money. I think this is, you know, we're
14:21
in the UK here. The benefits, the main benefit
14:24
that people get if they're on Social Security benefits is
14:27
called Universal Credit. And you know, I, I think it's
14:31
that that name was not chosen accidentally.
14:34
We are heading in the in that direction.
14:37
So I would, I would say that it's not a done deal, of course.
14:42
And many, many people, we, we have a large in the UKA large
14:48
sector, which of self-employed and, and and so on.
14:52
And, and hopefully, you know, that will continue to, to grow
14:57
and people will find other ways to, to earn a living.
14:59
But as far as the the corporate employers go, I, I, I'm pretty
15:04
pessimistic about what their what their view of the next few
15:07
years is. I don't think that's what he
15:10
meant though about AII think he was being more philosophical in
15:14
the sort of existential threat that that Elon has referred to
15:17
that AI as a yeah. Well, I mean, if we're talking
15:19
about the idea of, of artificial general intelligence, I think
15:24
there's, there is absolutely a lot of nonsense spoken about
15:28
that. And, and so, yeah, I mean, I, I,
15:33
I absolutely agree. I may, I may I my point is, I
15:37
generally agree with what yobs was, was was presenting.
15:40
I'm just trying to to add another another dimension to it.
15:44
I would say on the, you know, is it taking over?
15:46
I think the argument to a certain extent is is a semantic
15:48
one in that exactly as yobs and Barry articulated it, it's
15:55
basically told what to do by people.
15:59
But but the result in effect, depending upon what the people
16:03
have told it is that it may be perceived to be taking over.
16:06
So, for example, in in the great brain switching off exercise.
16:11
What better example on on Wednesday's news program, I
16:15
reported on the twin speeches that went out on Monday from the
16:20
chief of the Secret Intelligence Service, Blaze Metrovelli, and
16:26
the chief of the defense staff, Richard Knighton.
16:28
And he, Knighton, not only did he admit to using AI to help him
16:34
write his speech, which frankly, I, I, I can't believe, first of
16:40
all, that he did it and that he admitted it, But but he then
16:43
went on to say that he had used AI to predict the likelihood of
16:49
Russia attacking. I think it wasn't actually
16:53
specifically attacking the United Kingdom, but attacking
16:55
another NATO member. I mean, it's, you know, it's
16:57
like the, it's like when they tell you that there's a, there's
16:59
a 17% chance of rain, right? So what, So it's going to rain
17:04
or it's not going to rain. I mean, it's the same, it
17:06
doesn't matter 95% chance of rain, but it still might not
17:10
rain. I mean, it's the, the most crass
17:12
thing anyway. I don't want to get too diverted
17:14
by that. But the point is that he,
17:15
Knighten had absolutely switched his brain off.
17:18
He he was, he was just, you know, splurging out what a
17:21
machine had told him and then said, oh, yeah.
17:23
And they said that's about the same chance as Liverpool winning
17:26
the football championship, right.
17:28
Great. OK, again, might happen, it
17:30
might not. So, so there's that side of it.
17:33
People are are just stopping thinking.
17:35
The other part of it, which is absolutely, you know, associated
17:40
with this is programming it to do such and such a thing in
17:46
pursuit of an objective. So for an example, let's say,
17:50
which I mean to an extent it will be it runs the what was
17:53
called the National Grid, you know, the, the energy supply.
17:57
And if it is programmed to conserve power or to do whatever
18:01
it is, theoretically, given the amount of smart meters that
18:05
people have, it would be able to, you know, take over, let's
18:09
say, and cut people off because it would be, it would be
18:12
fulfilling its task of reducing energy usage.
18:16
So, and, and I, OK, I don't really know.
18:19
But I think if that started to happen or if that did happen, to
18:22
intervene as a human to correct that, I think would be very
18:25
difficult because of the, you know, the, the sort of sheer
18:29
computing capability that that is there.
18:32
And I think if you, you know, if you imagine that scenario
18:34
across, you know, frankly anything because of course
18:37
everything is controlled by computers in some way.
18:42
Now, I think that is something that I consider to be absolutely
18:48
a, a clear and present danger. And, and, and I would say that
18:51
that does go into the box of AI taking over.
18:54
And and the example, the stand out example from that which I
18:58
will have related before I think is the scenario that the
19:03
American military ran with giving AIA task as a drone
19:10
operator, sorry, as a as an autonomous drone controlled
19:16
finally by a human as to whether it was going to kill or not
19:19
kill. And I forget what the, what the
19:23
specific task was this, this didn't actually happen, but it
19:26
was a, it was a, a sort of modelled exercise.
19:29
And in order to complete its mission, which was the
19:35
destruction of XY and Z target, but that basically meant killing
19:37
people. The, the AI calculated that the
19:41
only obstacle to its progress was the human operator in the
19:46
control room who had the final say on whether to kill or not
19:49
kill. So the AI model tried to kill
19:52
the human because then it would be able to act unimpeded.
19:55
OK, that's an extreme example. And you could say, oh, why, you
19:58
know, that's just a programming mistake.
20:00
But but I mean, it, it does, it does at least illustrate that
20:05
it's not AI necessarily taking over.
20:07
But of course if you don't program it not to do that.
20:11
Then it might well end up doing that.
20:13
And I think that's where we stand because people are so
20:16
utterly stupid about, you know, thinking in this exactly the
20:20
same way with the, you know, with a novel pharmaceutical
20:23
product. And again, I know I've made this
20:25
comparison before. You know, why would you, after
20:27
years of doing it like this, why would you immediately think, oh,
20:30
I'll tell you what, you know, someone's just invented this
20:32
utterly new, completely untested way of doing it.
20:34
Let's, let's just do that. Let's put all our systems on
20:36
that. This is absolute madness and and
20:39
that you people are only going to realise this when it all goes
20:42
disastrously wrong and how you unpick that I wouldn't begin to
20:44
know, but I think that will be a a great difficulty if that does
20:48
start to happen. Now the what the comment that I
20:50
was going to make about Carl's are is that when, when, when we
20:54
were in China, we had this conversation about AI taking
20:57
over and he made the point, Mike, that China has got the
21:02
most automated car manufacturing industry in the world.
21:05
I think you said something like over 50 or 55% or even over 60%
21:09
of all car manufacturers are fully automated now.
21:12
In other words, no humans yet. There's no unemployment problem.
21:19
You know, well, the, the question is, you know, obviously
21:24
some industries are more ripe for automation and others at
21:32
this stage because, you know, the car industry in particular
21:38
has, has been making use of, of robotics for a very long time in
21:42
production lines. And so they're, they're ahead of
21:46
the curve. So I think it would be a mistake
21:48
to to look at that and say, well, that industry is doing
21:53
this and but it's not having a major impact on unemployment.
21:57
You know, we have, if we look at, at industries that require
22:04
huge human resource at the moment, for example, picking
22:10
fruit or vegetables, this type of thing, it's very, very hard
22:14
to, to automate because for, for a host of different reasons.
22:19
Charles can speak more about this, but, but obviously you've,
22:22
you know, you've got to, you've got to be able to identify which
22:24
of the fruit or vegetables are ripe for picking first of all.
22:29
And also plants grow in unfortunate ways which aren't
22:35
easy to, to automate necessarily, but you know, they
22:38
are, they, people are working very, very hard to make that
22:42
automation happen to, to, to be able to make picking fruit and
22:48
vegetables something which can be completely handed over to, to
22:51
robotics. So it's, I think it's only a, a
22:55
matter of time as to, as to how and when, how quickly this, this
22:59
sort of thing happens. And you know, of course, once
23:04
the, once they start using AI to help design these, these things,
23:10
then then that speeds the whole process up.
23:12
So, so I think we're going to see massive change very, very
23:15
quickly. And I think it, it would be a
23:17
mistake to sort of, you know, highlight one industry that
23:21
happens to be out in front and say, well, it hasn't had that
23:23
much impact on the on the overall employment situation.
23:27
That's that's I think just a matter of timing.
23:32
Now to jump across to another series of discussions that I had
23:36
that I thought had a lot of value.
23:40
I'm going to put them together in a in a sort of a cluster
23:42
because they're kind of all fit together.
23:44
But that would be diet and nutrition.
23:45
Now, I love that topic and I know you also have quite an
23:48
interest in it, Mike. And I think it's probably one of
23:51
the most important topics actually in existence because if
23:54
you if you fat and unhealthy and you get cancer, then nothing
23:57
really else matters and you can't fight any information wars
24:00
if you are unhealthy. Tim Knox was on my show.
24:04
He he had a significant impact on my life over a decade ago.
24:08
And every time he comes on my show, I learn something new.
24:11
And then related to Tim would have been my chat with Zoe
24:14
Harcombe in which she made the argument that, and I'm sorry,
24:18
it's the wrong time, but he had to say this, But you know, fruit
24:20
and sugar are not very good for you.
24:23
And that's one that people really don't like hearing what
24:25
you're saying that an apple a day doesn't keep the doctor
24:29
away. Well, yes, that's effectively
24:31
what she's saying. And then lumped in with that
24:35
would be my my good friend farmer Angus with his
24:37
regenerative farming and of course a Jim Gale with, with the
24:41
whole sort of permaculture concept of growing your own
24:44
food. It's just to me a little bit
24:47
unfortunate that those topics don't really get much traction.
24:51
I love them and I'll continue chatting about them in in the
24:55
different guises. But I personally have gained so
24:59
much value from those discussions, and I know you have
25:02
also, Mike. I, I just, I have to say, I, I
25:07
still find it bemusing that that these types of topics do get so
25:13
little traction and that people aren't interested.
25:17
You know, all, everybody that that was taking a position on
25:22
the whole COVID ocracy and takes a position on, on big Pharma
25:28
still seems to to a large degree in their own mind, rely on
25:34
hospitals and big pharma for their health in inverted commas.
25:39
And that the answer to, to a particular problem is to just
25:44
deal with the symptom and, and get the particular drug that
25:47
deals with that symptom. Because it was my experience as
25:51
well. You know, we, I did, I did some
25:53
interviews with, you know, on the, on the idea of trying to
25:57
maintain a, a standard of health long into, you know, with the
26:00
aim of, of living a healthy life until the point where you
26:04
basically fall over dead. And, and to avoid long term, you
26:09
know, the number of people I know with, with massively long
26:12
term health issues, they can't walk properly, they can't
26:16
actually have they, they have no quality of life whatsoever.
26:20
And you know, this is, this is something that this was a
26:24
direction undoubtedly, as everybody knows, I was heading
26:27
in because I was a fat blimp. You know, it was because I was,
26:33
you know, I was, I'm quite open about this.
26:36
I was self medicating with sugar and I was using sugar as a, as
26:41
a, a source of energy and, and a sort of short term high sort of
26:46
thing. Keep myself awake for another
26:48
hour, whatever it happens to be. And was, was doing myself no
26:52
good at all. So, you know, like I have
26:56
largely cut sugar out and, and carbs out as much as I can.
27:00
I'm not going to say I'm that I never fall off the wagon because
27:03
I do. And it is, and I would say that
27:05
it actually, it is sugar is an addiction similar to to alcohol
27:10
or smoking or, or some of these other things.
27:12
It is, it's damn hard to break that habit.
27:15
I'm not going to underestimate that for anybody.
27:17
It is hard to break that habit and, and you know, whatever
27:24
whatever sugar does to you, it it with withdrawals from it
27:29
results in cravings that are really hard to deal with.
27:34
So, you know, we shouldn't underestimate the difficulty of
27:37
it, but it's absolutely vital, I think for for everybody to to
27:42
remove that from their diet as much as they possibly can
27:45
because, you know, insulin resistance is a thing.
27:48
It is probably the, probably the, the, the, the source of
27:53
most people's ills. And if we, if we change our
27:59
attitude towards what we're shoving down our throats and
28:03
then we probably have, you know, by default, a much better
28:07
outcome. Just, you know, I'm not, I'm not
28:12
going to say that I, that I have ever really been massively
28:15
unhealthy in the sense that, that even when I was in that
28:18
physical condition, I was never required medical intervention
28:24
or, or required going to the doctor.
28:26
And I, you know, I, I actually haven't seen a doctor and I
28:29
don't know how many decades. So I'm not talking years, but
28:32
decades. So and no particular inclination
28:35
to go near 1, so yeah. Charles, I know that you also
28:39
know my friend Angus and on my UK column show he made such a
28:44
great point when I he was showing me around his farm and
28:47
he was showing me his chickens which are truly free range, not
28:51
free range TM. But you know they can fly away
28:53
if they want and they don't, which makes his eggs more
28:58
expensive. And I asked him, OK, but now do
28:59
you struggle with that? You know that concept that your
29:03
eggs are more expensive, the more premium, therefore they're
29:05
more out of reach. And he said yes, but what is the
29:07
value of your health? Yeah, well, I mean not just
29:10
because I've got chickens, but but absolutely I agree with
29:13
that. I mean that that's I think
29:14
that's the point I do always try to make about exactly this
29:19
issue. You know the, the idea, or they
29:23
put it the other around the actual cost of so-called health
29:27
in this country that the budget that goes to the National Health
29:30
Service compared with what goes to farming.
29:33
And again for those who may not remember, because why would you,
29:37
but the, the National Health Service consumes over half a
29:42
billion pounds every day and the entire farming budget for the
29:47
year is only £5 billion. Now I don't think there should
29:51
be a farming budget in the 1st place because I think as Julian
29:54
Rose says, subsidy creates slaves and in effect that is
29:58
sort of where we are, why we are where we are with with the ultra
30:03
processed foods. So that's a slightly separate
30:05
debate. But if there was any sincerity
30:07
in the government's desire to create a healthy nation, then
30:11
why would you only give the farming industry 10 days worth
30:15
of the drug bucket pushing industries income doesn't make
30:19
any sense. Also the food, you know, the the
30:23
National Food Strategy Board was, was convened earlier this
30:27
year. What a joke.
30:29
There was only one person actually involved in producing
30:32
food on that strategy board, a farmer who had just stood down
30:38
as I think the chair of the National Farmers Union Sugar
30:45
Board. That was his, that was his role.
30:48
I mean, you could usually couldn't make it up.
30:50
So yes, I, I, I think, you know, back to Angus and his eggs and
30:57
whatnot. I, I mean, I think there are
30:59
absolutely increasing numbers of people who do see the value and,
31:02
and because I, he spoke to me must have been two years ago
31:06
now, I think. And the point he made on the, on
31:09
the sort of cost side of it was telling his workers and I, I
31:12
have said this before, but you know, by weight, the stake that
31:17
he producers and that they were creating and selling cost by
31:23
weight less than the bags of crisps that these guys would go
31:26
out and buy and sort of stuff themselves with.
31:29
And actually, if you know, once you've got that sort of no carb,
31:35
no sugar thing out of your system, if that is indeed the
31:37
route you choose to go down, the amount of whatever it is you're
31:41
replacing it with, if it is protein, you know, that will
31:43
keep going for much longer. I mean, I know in a way
31:46
everyone's got to find their own system that works for them, but
31:51
the idea that you are priced out of changing your habits, I think
31:56
is, is, is absolutely not, not the case.
31:59
I mean, again, you have to, I can't sort of say that with any
32:04
degree of certainty because it's, it's up to the individual
32:08
as to how they actually respond to any of those changes in, in
32:11
diet. But certainly that's what I have
32:13
absolutely found, you know, and, and in fact was two other things
32:18
if just just for people to sort of look into.
32:20
I think, Mike, did you just refer to it?
32:25
So I can't remember now. Insulin resistance anyway, I
32:27
think is yeah, that is something that I think people should look
32:31
into because I think it's a it is a completely misunderstood
32:36
idea. And and I think, you know,
32:39
again, of course they wouldn't. But for example, the National
32:41
Health Service would never talk about that.
32:45
You know, instead, what do we have for BBC this morning
32:47
talking about flipping flu vaccinations in schools?
32:51
And I mean, you know, in the interests of balance, they had
32:53
two people absolutely hammering this, but one was a medic and
32:58
one was a teacher. So yeah, Anyway, but but but the
33:03
insulin resistance I think people should absolutely look at
33:06
to get an understanding of of sort of what it is doing to your
33:09
body. Because I think that is that is
33:11
quite a sort of jump start. If you're needing that, you're
33:16
needing to understand the significance of what processed
33:20
foods do actually do to your body.
33:22
I think that that's a really important one.
33:23
And the other thing I would say, and in this case back to Tim
33:26
Noakes, is if anyone's wanting a a book recommendation that does
33:32
deal with this, but in a slightly oblique sense.
33:34
But it's completely fascinating. I found, I mean, it's
33:36
effectively a sort of mainstream publication, but it's called
33:38
Natural Born Heroes and it's by Christopher McDougal, who has
33:42
also written the Born to Run book about the sort of
33:45
anthropological basis of sort of why we are how we are as bipeds
33:50
and our ability to run. But the but Natural Born Heroes
33:53
gets to the heart of it with burning, burning fat as fuel,
33:57
which is exactly Tim Noakes's thing.
33:59
But it's really, really interesting because he talks
34:01
exactly as Tim is very candid about his conversion from having
34:04
been the bloke who pushed carbohydrates and then saw the
34:08
error of his ways and, and completely adopted his re
34:13
adopted, you know, his, his philosophy.
34:15
But the but natural born heroes deals with all of this and it's,
34:17
it's very, it's absolutely fascinating.
34:20
So anyway, there we go. Christmas Christmas book
34:21
recommendation. Well, I mean, the, the
34:24
discussion is, is obviously deeper than just carbohydrates
34:27
and sugar. I mean, it's a, it's a domino
34:29
effect because thanks to, you know, Tim, my dad stopped taking
34:34
statins about two years ago. And my father-in-law for that
34:38
matter. And just a few days, well, about
34:42
a week ago, my father said to me that he stopped all of his blood
34:45
pressure medication about three months ago.
34:47
And he only told me recently. And he says he's feeling 500
34:51
times better than what he did when he was on the medication.
34:55
And that's thanks to, you know, people like Zoe and Tim who, who
35:00
don't just look at carbohydrates, but the actual
35:04
the actual consequences on your system that that the wrong diet
35:09
and of course the wrong medication has.
35:14
Again. Well, that's that's the other
35:15
thing. And you know, the if this came
35:19
up, of course, during the the period where people were
35:21
questioning the so-called COVID vaccines.
35:26
But, but I think such is the grip of the Pharmaceutical
35:29
industry upon the the sort of national or worldwide
35:33
consciousness that people don't consider that if you put
35:37
something into your body, it has a reaction to it.
35:40
And the, the idea that, you know, just taking a
35:43
pharmaceutical product is it has, you know, sort of has
35:47
consequences beyond supposedly making you better.
35:51
And it, it is amazing that, that you know, these long lists of
35:56
what you call them adverse effects or you know, the
35:59
ingredients. I mean, who, whoever reads that?
36:01
No one, you know, when, when does a doctor ever say, well,
36:04
make sure you read through the read through the, the rubric,
36:07
because there might be something in there that that would
36:10
disagree with you or, or whatever.
36:12
But it but, but it's quite incredible.
36:14
Further, it's, it's totally astonishing that you should ever
36:18
be given more than one drug at a time.
36:21
I mean, there's, there's absolutely no way logically that
36:24
your body can can handle that. And you know, and looking at the
36:29
sort of, you know, the chasing the error thing, you know, you
36:31
take this, which has a side effect of that.
36:34
So therefore you start taking something else in order to deal
36:36
with the side effect. And yet going back to the, to
36:41
the sort of psychological grip, people will still be thinking,
36:45
oh, right. That's, you know, that can't be
36:46
anything to do with the, the drug that's making that better.
36:51
So it is a huge process of sort of unlearning, if that's the
36:57
right phrase to use, you know, to, to really stop and consider
37:02
why you are in such a, you know, such a state and, and every.
37:07
Oh yeah, quite because you're quite right.
37:08
Of course, it's not just what you're eating.
37:11
There are there are so many other aspects to it.
37:15
But but but you know, until people start considering that
37:17
you have the time to sort of step back and look at it.
37:20
Absolutely everything. Yeah, it's very, it's very
37:23
difficult and. I.
37:24
Remember, it's very difficult to make those changes if you are
37:27
reliant upon these things or you think you are.
37:29
And sometimes it is simple. I remember, I think it was in
37:33
2021, no, 2020, I was having lunch with, with Tim Lokes.
37:39
And at the time I was taking antidepressants because the
37:41
whole COVID thing just ate me up.
37:43
I, I just destroyed me and I couldn't make heads or tails of
37:49
what is going on. And I was just finding myself
37:50
very, very depressing. So I resorted to all sorts of
37:53
medication at the time. And I was sitting opposite Tim.
37:57
And I said to him, I'm taking these SSR is and he looked at me
38:03
and he just said stop. And it was as simple as that.
38:08
And we were talking about diet and all that.
38:10
And he said, I'm going to give you some advice now and we're
38:13
going to replace all of those side effects that you're going
38:16
to, sorry, not side effects. What's it when you have when you
38:20
go off offered? What's the term when you go off
38:23
a drug withdrawals, withdrawals which you obviously get from
38:26
antidepressants? He said.
38:28
We're going to replace all that with gym and diet and all that
38:30
kind of stuff. And that's precisely what
38:32
happened. And of course I'm a better
38:33
person today as a result of that.
38:35
But sometimes it really is that simple and it just takes, it
38:39
just takes a bit of will, so. I know someone very well,
38:44
Jeremy, that had some kind of gut issue and was diagnosed in
38:51
inverted commas by the NHS as being irritable bowel syndrome.
38:54
Which of course is a a blanket term that they use when they
38:57
basically don't have a clue what the what the issue is.
39:01
And that, that person went through all kinds of tests and
39:06
scans and Mris and all kinds of stuff and they could find no
39:11
particular source of the problem, ended up being referred
39:15
to a consultant. And the current consultant said,
39:18
well, what we're going to do is we're going to put you on on
39:22
this antidepressant because we'll start off with a small
39:26
dose because, because what's basically happening is that your
39:29
gut is cramping. And this will, the 1 of this,
39:33
one of the effects of this particular drug is it'll stop
39:35
your gut cramping and, and, and at that point the, the person
39:42
said, well, I'm not proceeding in this direction anymore.
39:47
They ended up going to a naturopath who decided that this
39:52
person actually had a parasitic issue and used natural
40:00
medicines, if we want to use that word to deal with the
40:03
parasitic problem and the gut problem disappeared alongside
40:07
it. So you know.
40:11
I just, you know, all, all the, all the health service was
40:15
interested in was, was spending money doing scans and, and all
40:19
kinds of things for things that were not relevant.
40:21
And then attempting to put that person on a, on a prescription
40:26
medication, which would have had, you know, huge potential
40:30
implications for, you know, mental health and the rest.
40:34
Because because that type of you know, yourself germ, that type
40:38
of product is, is absolutely not good.
40:42
And the number of people that I, I mean, I do know a number of
40:45
people that have been on those types of, of products and, and
40:49
quite if not all cases the, the, the comment was this was the
40:54
worst decision of my life starting this stuff.
40:58
And so I don't know anybody that's that's actually done well
41:02
on a long term basis if they end up taking that stuff for for a
41:05
longer period of time. I, I think, I think also with,
41:09
with all these things, the, the biggest part of it is the, is
41:13
your psychological state and your certainty in what you're
41:19
doing. And I think that it is quite
41:22
incredible the, the power that your mind has over the way in
41:25
which your body works. And as an example, I mean,
41:28
person is, is purely anecdotal, of course, but I've not taken, I
41:34
mean, I've, I've, I've always had a sort of instinctive
41:37
reaction against pharmaceutical products for for one reason or
41:40
another. So that, that, that's sort of by
41:42
the by, but I suppose like a lot of people who have spent time in
41:48
the armed forces, painkillers become not, not habitually taken
41:54
necessarily. Sorry, I don't mean to suggest
41:55
some kind of issue with pain killers.
41:56
What I mean is you're often in situations where you're being
41:58
bashed about. And so the, you know, the sort
42:00
of the easy thing to do is thinking, all right, OK, well,
42:02
you know, going on exercise tomorrow, whatever I'll take,
42:06
I'll take painkillers now. And there we go.
42:09
I don't think I've taken painkillers.
42:11
I certainly haven't taken any pharmaceutical product for, for,
42:16
well, I don't know, 7-7 or eight years, let's say, but but not
42:20
even painkillers. And what I find interesting is
42:21
that at no point, because it, because it was absolutely
42:25
totally conscious decision, at no point in that across that
42:29
period, of course I've hurt myself, but at no point have I
42:33
thought have I even been tempted to have a, to take a painkiller
42:37
or, or indeed anything else. So rather than, I mean, OK, I'm,
42:41
I'm not saying that what Tim Noakes said to you, which is,
42:43
you know, just stop. He obviously had a had a plan.
42:46
You then took that on psychologically, your, your
42:50
mental state was changed and that's how you're able to do it.
42:54
So I think with all these things, you, it has to come from
42:57
within, you know, you've, you've got to be very determined to do
42:59
it because otherwise, you know, whether it's coming off sugar or
43:02
whatever, you definitely are going to experience some
43:05
effects, which if you're not prepared for that and you're not
43:08
focused on where you're going, then then I think it becomes
43:11
very much more difficult. But I but I just, yeah, again,
43:13
anecdotally, I just find it totally fascinating to be, you
43:17
know, having done, as I said, a number of years now without all
43:20
these things that we're told we must have and that we totally
43:23
depended upon and yet no issue at all.
43:26
And again, I mean, OK, sort of slightly touch wood, but, but
43:28
the, you know, the idea of sort of coughs and colds and that's
43:30
just not, it's not a thing. So it but, and I really do, I
43:35
really do ascribe that not just to lifestyle and diets, but also
43:40
the just not even considering that I would be ill.
43:44
I mean, OK, I'll probably fall flat on my face tomorrow.
43:47
And, and you know, whatever I, I, of course I can't predict,
43:50
but it, but just with over a number of years now,
43:53
anecdotally, no dramas and very much I'm in the mindset of,
43:58
well, you know, it's fine. I'm not scared of this.
44:00
I'm not going to, I'm not going to catch that or, you know, get
44:03
that or, or whatever. And, and that is a big, big part
44:06
of it. Just to add to that, because
44:08
this is a fascinating part of, of the thing, you know, along
44:14
with the next year's, the 20th anniversary of of the column.
44:19
I've been with the column for 18 years and probably for the first
44:24
several years of that, I would get a cold or, or a flu at
44:30
Christmas. It was the same every, every
44:32
year because and the term comes, we're, we're taking two weeks
44:36
off and all this sort of, you know, I just would relax
44:42
everything. And of course that the next
44:45
thing I was being hit with some kind of illness that doesn't
44:51
happen anymore because I think I've decided that it's not going
44:54
to happen anymore. And I think it just is
44:56
fascinating to me that that it, it was almost like I was giving,
45:01
giving myself permission to be ill at that particular moment
45:04
just because I knew I didn't have, you know, the next day's
45:07
work to do. It was psychology is definitely
45:12
part of of what we of what we experience with health.
45:18
Well, the Segway I don't. Remember correctly.
45:20
Did you? Yeah.
45:22
So are you going to talk about the the goat?
45:26
Was that you? Did you in 2020, did you either
45:30
were you talking about meal or did you No, no, sorry you Jerm,
45:33
did you, did you write or interview somebody?
45:37
The the story about the was it a goat or a lamb or something kept
45:42
in a pen that was side by side with another one looked out
45:46
over, you know, sort of looked out of a cave and saw a view.
45:49
The other one saw could always see a a wolf or something.
45:53
Is that ring a bell? OK, anyway, it's but that sounds
45:56
fascinating. The the, the power of yeah, the
45:59
power of psychology. And I can't remember if yeah,
46:02
sorry, that's really flimsy. I was hoping you it was going to
46:05
be you and you'd remember exactly what happened.
46:07
But it but I love where that's going.
46:08
The the psychological effect. The the IT is the psychological
46:11
effect of fear. And the result of this situation
46:17
was that the the young goat or young sheep that was that could
46:22
perpetually see a tethered wolf died, basically died of fear.
46:28
And and the other one in exact, you know, fed and and watered in
46:32
exactly the same way was perfectly healthy and fine.
46:35
I mean, OK, yes, one example, but but you you get the point.
46:38
It, whether or not that actually happened is sort of neither here
46:40
nor there, but it but it, you know, it, it does to speak to
46:44
this, this in particular of fear.
46:46
I mean, you know, what, what, what are we, what are we
46:48
constantly having forced upon us?
46:50
Is, is the idea that we should be in fear.
46:52
Well, look what that does. And that's exactly what we're
46:54
talking about, either at the individual level.
46:55
You know, if you fear that you might be ill, well, lo and
46:58
behold, you probably will be. But that right there is what I
47:02
was about to segue in because that has also had a a profound
47:05
effect on me. Is, is the is the the collection
47:08
of conversations around what makes you sick?
47:11
And I've done, I've done chats about German new medicine
47:15
terrain theory with Andy Kaufman and Tom Cowan.
47:18
They, they get a bit more specific about the existence of
47:20
viruses, etcetera. But I think the underlying theme
47:23
is we have a very impoverished understanding of what causes
47:28
illness. Absolutely.
47:30
And, and in fact, you know, given this such, such sort of
47:35
passionate debate either side, because the way in which people
47:38
become sort of invested in a particular position, you know,
47:41
the, the say the, the virus, no virus thing, you know, that by
47:45
and large can be put to one side because exactly like you say,
47:48
the, the idea is, well, I, I'm not, you know, that person is
47:51
not going to make me ill. And that it doesn't, you know,
47:54
it doesn't matter whether whether or not that means that
47:57
you do or don't think that that viruses exist because either
48:00
that, you know, you go with the sort of the immunity model or
48:04
whatever it is. But the, the fundamental point
48:06
is that you are, you are absolutely sort of, you know,
48:13
strong in your position that you are in the right condition and
48:18
therefore you won't succumb to, to, to whatever it is.
48:21
Yeah, but it's that. You know, that's a yeah.
48:25
Well, yes, exactly. Yeah.
48:26
It is of, of something. And it's very, Yeah, it's very,
48:30
it's very, very, it's very destructive.
48:33
And, and you know, the, I think we see more and more the link,
48:37
you know, the connection between the mental and physical thing.
48:42
Because also, do you know, you remember the, oh gosh, the, the
48:46
people who trotted off to get there?
48:50
It was, I can't really, what was it?
48:52
The, I can't remember when the, when all the injection stuff
48:55
started, but in 2021 and then, and then towards the end of that
49:00
year there was a sort of booster thing.
49:01
And then of course everybody was ill afterwards, never putting
49:05
two and two together. But what was the, what was the
49:06
line on that was, oh, you know, it would have been so much worse
49:10
if I hadn't had the oh gosh. But the point is that that there
49:16
was there was sort of double psychological thing going on
49:18
there. So they were first of all, they
49:19
were, they were convinced that they had COVID.
49:23
So therefore, there was a, an absolutely, I would say, a
49:26
relationship between fear and being made to feel like you were
49:31
in a position of poor health, you know, physically it was
49:33
actually affecting you. But that was amazingly that was
49:36
counterbalanced by the propaganda surrounding the, the
49:39
jabs themselves. So people thought, well, I can't
49:41
be, I can't be that I'll, because I've had the, I've had
49:45
the jab and I, and I don't know again, but it would be very
49:48
interesting to talk to people who can, you know, who did sort
49:51
of document their own health from say, let's say January 2020
49:56
through till the end of 2022. And to talk about the instance
49:59
you have. Because of course, the, you
50:00
know, the, the 2020 for those who were caught up in the fear
50:04
thing was made much more fearful by the idea that there could be
50:07
a vaccine, but there wasn't 1 yet.
50:09
So you know, how, how on earth are you going to survive this
50:12
terrible thing? Whereas the moment there was a
50:14
vaccine and you'd had it, you were still fearful of the, the
50:17
thing in the 1st place, but you were presumably mentally
50:19
bolstered by the idea that there was this marvellous drug that
50:23
was going to make you terribly healthy.
50:24
So, so it's, it's sort of in a way it can, well, I mean, it,
50:28
it, it does, you know, that the mental physical thing is so, so,
50:31
so intertwined. Just just, sorry, I don't want
50:34
to divert the conversation into COVID too much, but I just want
50:37
to make one point about that, about how that whole thing was
50:42
simply marketing. You know, we were told it was a
50:47
novel coronavirus in parallel with being told that flu had
50:51
disappeared. And we were told the flu had
50:53
disappeared because everybody was getting the coronavirus and,
50:57
and they were the, the flu was, didn't have have much of an
50:59
opportunity to take hold. What fascinates me about this is
51:03
that this year we're being told that, that the NHS is under
51:06
massive stress because of the Super flu.
51:08
And it, and it's flu, it's not coronavirus that, that, that
51:11
they're claiming. But in 2020, you know, I did, I
51:17
did get ill in 2020 and it was extremely unpleasant.
51:21
It, it, it lasted about 2-3 weeks.
51:25
And but it, you know, the symptoms were a particular type,
51:33
someone that we know very well has just apparently had this
51:37
super flu and the symptoms are pretty much the same.
51:41
But that was marketed as COVID then and now it's marketed as
51:45
flu. And it's just, it's just seems
51:48
to me a marketing exercise. That's that's what was at the
51:52
time and that's what it still is.
51:54
And you know, it's, it's at the end of the day, as as Charles is
51:58
saying, it's just fear that's being marketed.
52:01
Yeah. Well, actually, sorry, just to
52:03
follow that very briefly, the BBC always good for a laugh.
52:06
What I referred to earlier the the report they had this morning
52:09
about why there wasn't great uptake of these marvellous flu
52:13
vaccines in schools. Sort of by the by, who cares?
52:16
But well, actually it was great that, that there wasn't.
52:19
But the, the Doctor Who was on the, on the sort of live link
52:24
thing was asked. I mean, it wasn't a facetious
52:27
question, but it seemed to be 1, you know, but is it COVID or is
52:31
it flu? I mean, how do you, how do you
52:33
tell the difference? And of course, she absolutely
52:36
dodged the question because, yeah, the whole thing, the whole
52:39
thing's just a confection. But it was very funny to to to
52:42
hear the question asked and then be ducked.
52:46
Yeah, come on, it's your PCR test.
52:48
No, no, it wasn't mentioned. I mean, I don't know.
52:51
Yeah, there we are. Unfortunately, we only have a
52:56
few minutes left, so I guess whatever shows I want to bring
53:01
up will will just be special mentions.
53:02
But I don't know if either of you listen to my recent show
53:07
with Adam Curry. It's one of my favorite of 2025,
53:10
and mainly because without him, I wouldn't be doing what I'm
53:13
doing. Joe Rogan wouldn't be doing what
53:15
what he's doing in in many ways because he Adam largely invented
53:19
podcasting. Chatting with you guys on my
53:21
show has been has been very much a highlight.
53:24
I've been really uplifted and influenced in my thinking.
53:30
I've thoroughly enjoyed this last almost year on UK column.
53:35
Really enjoy having you guys on every week.
53:37
Enjoyed having both of you on individually on my show.
53:39
I'll probably do that again, you know, in the new year and you
53:44
know, as we come in for a landing, I just want to say
53:45
thank you, gentlemen. I've had really good time and
53:48
I'm really looking forward to 2026 with you.
53:54
Well, I would just say thank you, Jeremy, because you know,
53:57
your interviews, I also don't agree with everything that all
54:02
your guests say, but that's that is part of the journey that
54:05
we're on. We need to be challenged.
54:07
And and so I just, I enjoy it immensely.
54:10
And so thank you for being part of what we're doing because it
54:13
is, it's, it's a massive part of what we're doing.
54:16
It is and I think it's it has given us such a great range.
54:23
You know, we've UK as UK column. Quite a lot has changed this
54:27
year, but. Try not to be thrown off.
54:33
But but yeah, I've maintained professionalism at all times.
54:38
The I think the the added dimension that that you're
54:43
broadcast of given is, is absolutely phenomenal.
54:45
It cannot be, you know, really can't be sort of overstated.
54:50
And I think also for us, you know, for, for Mike and I to
54:55
have these sessions, I've I found really valuable.
54:58
I think it's it, it is great to have the chance to talk about
55:02
the stuff that frankly, you know, going back to the
55:04
beginning, talking about Christmas, you know, people
55:05
having the chance to sort of reflect and whatnot.
55:08
You know, such is the nature of a business like this that
55:11
actually it's very easy to get caught up in what's going on all
55:15
the time, you know, and, and not to stop and think about stuff
55:20
that we might not necessarily discuss.
55:22
And I think that's been a really, really worthwhile
55:24
exercise for us. So I am very grateful to you for
55:27
for that as well. But I think I think for the
55:29
audience, you know, how how absolutely fantastic to put
55:33
forward something, you know, in effect on the podcast model,
55:38
yes, OK, you know, an hour long interview.
55:40
But actually the, the format and the range of guests, it's been a
55:44
completely new departure. And I think it's, you know,
55:47
it's, it's added masses and I think it's been huge, you know,
55:50
huge benefit for the for the audience.
55:52
So yeah, we've been really lucky and and we've enjoyed it.
55:55
So thank you very much indeed. And yeah, likewise, we we really
55:58
look forward to 2026. It's going to be a good one.
56:02
Please go to support.ukcolumn.org with that.
56:06
Gentlemen. Thank you so much.
56:09
I'll catch you in the new year.