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56. Cleopatra - The Last Ruler of Egypt · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast. Hi everybody, and
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: welcome to Who Did Want Now? The history podcast That's
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: not your history class with me your host Katie Charlwood,
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  Speaker 1: History Harlotte and reader of books. Happy new Year, everybody,
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  Speaker 1: It is a new year. It is twenty twenty three.
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  Speaker 1: Don't make resolutions. They're stupid, I mean, unless you need them.
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  Speaker 1: Like some people. It works for me, it doesn't because
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I no, no, I've got adhd. It just doesn't work
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: for me because I don't need to feel like a
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: failure like two months into the year. But I think
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  Speaker 1: of starting twenty twenty three with the same energy, like
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  Speaker 1: the same energy that we want to continue. So I
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  Speaker 1: spent my New Years with with my friend Seana and Goalwie,
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  Speaker 1: and we had a woman who definitely did not poison
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  Speaker 1: their husband's party and are very sad about it. We
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  Speaker 1: had gowns, crowns, Cowboy, boots, lingerie. It was a very
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: interesting party. We looked amazing by the way, check out
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: the TikTok we had like fabulous And it was a
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: good it was a really good night. And and yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it was like spend time with friends, have a good time,
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  Speaker 1: look amazing, and that's what I would like to continue
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  Speaker 1: the year with. Yeah, everyone should own a crown. I
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: don't care who you are. Owning a crown is just fun.
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  Speaker 1: It's just a good time. And her greyhound Goeser is
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: like the best dog in the world. And I will
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  Speaker 1: not hear any information to the contrary, thank you very much. No,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: he's a good boy and he deserves all the treats
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: and a new jumper because he's so cured and he
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: deserves it. I've decided. But yeah, that's it. It was
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  Speaker 1: a really good, really fun time, really chill, we sang
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  Speaker 1: show chunes. It was a good good time. And I
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  Speaker 1: think I want to bring the energy like into twenty
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  Speaker 1: twenty three. And something I did for myself actually is
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  Speaker 1: personal moment. So I am trying to be more respectful
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  Speaker 1: of my own feelings this year and to show myself
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  Speaker 1: respect and to not settle for any more bullshit, bollocks
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: or tom fuckery like no, like, I am so sick
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: of the bar being on the floor and then bringing
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: a fucking shovel like what no, stop, And I just
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: decided after you know, being left on red by someone
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: when they were supposed to be organizing, when our next
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: date would be and being left on red for a
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: day and a half two day at a time before
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  Speaker 1: getting a response. I was like, you know what, No.
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  Speaker 1: I decided on New Year's Eve after sending an objectively
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  Speaker 1: hilarious joke, which is, it's all fun of games until
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  Speaker 1: there's a giant penis in your bed because in sean
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  Speaker 1: his house she had put this penis pillow in the bed.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: His name is Francoise. I really want to make him
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: a mustache because I think it would suit him. But
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: he's like this big, soft, cuddly, like really cute penis.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if you've seen a penis, but
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: they're not usually that adorable, but this one was. And
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: so I sent a photo and I'm like ha ha
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: and crickets nothing. So I was like, you know what, Okay,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: well this is enough, And so on New Year's Eve
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: in the morning, I was like, no, I'm just gonna
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  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna block them because I'm not gonna sit
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  Speaker 1: here and wait and have my New Year's Eve ruined
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: because I'm waiting for them to message me back when
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  Speaker 1: I can just have a good time with my friend
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  Speaker 1: and not sit there looking and waiting for messages like
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  Speaker 1: I'm done, Like I would much rather be single and
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  Speaker 1: alone than be in any kind of relationship, whether it's
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  Speaker 1: casual or very romantic or whatever, with someone who is
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  Speaker 1: not actively interested in me, like especially when it's like
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  Speaker 1: new and you're in the beginning, like they should be excited.
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  Speaker 1: Like if you're not excited to see someone and talk
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  Speaker 1: to someone in the beginning, you should not be involved
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  Speaker 1: with them in any way. That's that's a red flag.
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  Speaker 1: That's no, no, no. But I know what you're thinking,
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  Speaker 1: you're thinking, what your jibber jab or in fact me,
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  Speaker 1: in fact you, I will. But first we're going to
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  Speaker 1: get our source on. Our sources are Cleopatra Beyond the
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  Speaker 1: Myth by Michel Chauveau, Cleopatra, Last Queen of Egypt by
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  Speaker 1: Joyce Tildesley, Cleopatra, The Life and Death of a Pharaoh
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  Speaker 1: by Edith Flammarion, Cleopatra by Jack Lindsay, Cleopatra a Study
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  Speaker 1: in Politics and Propaganda by HANNS. Wokeman, The Reign of
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  Speaker 1: Cleopatra by Stanley M. Burstein, Cleopatra and Anthony Power, Love
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  Speaker 1: and Politics in the Ancient World by Diana Preston Cleopatra
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  Speaker 1: and Egypt by Sally Anne Ashton, And of course we
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: have our old favorites, history dot com and biography dot com.
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  Speaker 1: Are you sitting comfortably good, then let's begin. So before
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  Speaker 1: we even get into the story of Cleopatra, there is
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  Speaker 1: so much going on, Like why you always found really
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  Speaker 1: fascinating about her is the fact that she has been
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  Speaker 1: misconstrued and misrepresented, like throughout history, like she was slandered
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  Speaker 1: in life and then that misinformation spread into death. Which
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  Speaker 1: you know, how much did men in power dislike this
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  Speaker 1: woman that they felt the need to destroy her reputation
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  Speaker 1: in life and death. Like that's something that is definitely something.
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  Speaker 1: And for so long we were told of Cleopatra's like
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  Speaker 1: beauty and wiles and all that stuff, and a lot
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  Speaker 1: of it is absolute bollocks. But I am getting ahead
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  Speaker 1: of myself. So let's talk about Cleopatra or Cleopatra the
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  Speaker 1: Seventh if you want to get a fancy about it.
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  Speaker 1: Cleopatra the seventh Philopatter was born in sixty nine BCE.
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  Speaker 1: We have a year, which good because the Egyptians were
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: very good at keeping records, so that's handy month. Whatever
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  Speaker 1: we don't have, but we have a year. So that's
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  Speaker 1: that's something. Let's just appreciate that for a moment. So Cleopatra,
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  Speaker 1: her name means well, Cleopatra, the father beloved. So when
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: she was born, I mean, the fact that she had
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: functioning lungs is a fucking miracle because her family tree
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: was more like a wreath. You see. Even though like
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: in general sort of Greek society and Roman society really
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: looked down on this practice. The telemes, they would often
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  Speaker 1: marry like brother and sister, cousins and whatnot, the original lanisters,
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  Speaker 1: if you will, So they would marry each other off
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  Speaker 1: and it was just seen as a way of for them.
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  Speaker 1: It was like keeping the blood pourb. But I don't know,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: if you've ever seen King Charles of Habsburg. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's not good. Usually that amount of i'm gonna say,
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  Speaker 1: inbreeding does not turn out well. Also in addition, furthermore,
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna apologize now for the repeating of names, because
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of naming after each other, Like there's
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  Speaker 1: so many Telem's and Cleopatras, and it just continues. So
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  Speaker 1: you're just gonna have to hopefully follow along with this.
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  Speaker 1: So by the time Cleopatra was born. She already has
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  Speaker 1: an older sister, Bernice, and somewhere after Cleopatra being born,
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  Speaker 1: her mother also known as Cleopatra, she just disappears. There's
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  Speaker 1: no like information like from records. He just kind of goes.
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  Speaker 1: And then in her absence, three more siblings are born.
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  Speaker 1: So her dad tell me has three more kids, two
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  Speaker 1: boys and a girl. So her half siblings Ptolemy Junior,
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  Speaker 1: Ptolemay Junior Junior, and Arsinaway. So the Ptolemaic regime, I
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  Speaker 1: keep pulling the regime the rain in the line. They're
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  Speaker 1: like the last big dynasty to rule Egypt, but they're
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  Speaker 1: not Egyptian, like Cleopatra is not Egyptian. She's Greek, she's Macedonian.
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  Speaker 1: And it's all because of Alexander the Great. He had
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  Speaker 1: this like dude Ptolemy the Savior, who was like his
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  Speaker 1: best day, and he gave him basically rule of Egypt.
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  Speaker 1: So they're crowned. They always crowned in Egypt, but they
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  Speaker 1: tended to live in Alexandria. What a surprise. So they
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  Speaker 1: would live in Alexandria and they would just kind of
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  Speaker 1: rule Egypt from there, and they spoke Greek and they
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  Speaker 1: were just very Greek. Really they didn't too much connect
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  Speaker 1: with sort of the Egyptian people too much, not really
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  Speaker 1: just kind of ruled them. So, as it turns out,
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  Speaker 1: Ptolemy Senior he is not really he's not beloved by
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  Speaker 1: the people. He's kind of an ineffective leader, and things
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  Speaker 1: are not going well for him. And in what was
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  Speaker 1: it like, I think it was fifty nine BCE, he
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  Speaker 1: basically gets kicked out of Egypt. So he is struggling
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  Speaker 1: to rule throughout Cleopatra's childhood. And so she's in Alexandria
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  Speaker 1: where the Library of Alexandria is, and she has a
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  Speaker 1: tutor for Lostratus, and he's teaching her all of the shit.
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  Speaker 1: He is teaching her to rule, and she's also learning.
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  Speaker 1: She's very much a very Greek education, but she also
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  Speaker 1: learns like a bunch of languages. So naturally her first
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  Speaker 1: language is Greek, but then she learns to read and
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  Speaker 1: write an Egyptian, making her like the first member of
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  Speaker 1: the Ptolemaic line to do so in three hundred years,
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  Speaker 1: so like for three centuries, not one ruler of Egypt
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  Speaker 1: spoke Egyptian. So she becomes fluent in Egyptian, Greek, Arabic, Ethiopian, Trogodite, Hebrew, Syrian, Median, Latin,
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  Speaker 1: and Parthian. Like, she learns a fuck ton of language.
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  Speaker 1: She is a polyglot, so she learns all this stuff
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  Speaker 1: because she is a smart Okay, she watches everything and
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  Speaker 1: she learns. And by the time she's a teenager, like,
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  Speaker 1: things aren't going too well for her father, and there's
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  Speaker 1: a wee bit of a coup and her sister Bernice
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  Speaker 1: and Cleopatra Trephina. I think it was definitely a Cleopatra.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know which one. It could be their mother.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe it's a bit muddy, like this information's kind of
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  Speaker 1: wishy washy, but there was a Cleopatra, probably a mother,
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  Speaker 1: you know, helped get Bernice onto the throne and Toolemy
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  Speaker 1: and Cleopatra seventh, they're forced to flee, so we know
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  Speaker 1: it had to be Cleopatra who was with him because
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  Speaker 1: it said he took his daughter and Bernice is on
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  Speaker 1: the throne. Our sinaway is like a wee girl at
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  Speaker 1: this point, and Cleopatra is the only one whose age
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  Speaker 1: like fits in this. So he is exiled and he's
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  Speaker 1: gone from pillar to post like trying to get support
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  Speaker 1: to like retake his throne, and for a long time
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  Speaker 1: this doesn't happen. But then Cleopatra and Bernice's mother dies
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  Speaker 1: under mysterious circumstances, leaving Bernice to be the sole ruler.
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  Speaker 1: She sends diplomats to Rome just to kind of like
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  Speaker 1: fight for her cause, you know, and her father Ptolemy
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: the twelfth decides he wants to just kill them, and
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: he does. He kills her ambassadors. This does not go
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: down well. That being said, Luckily for Tommy, he had
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: some Roman backers with a good bit of cash who
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: decided to finance, you know, some Roman soldiers going in
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: fighting Bertie his army and restoring Ptolemy to power. So
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  Speaker 1: when he comes in, retakes the throne, has Bernice and
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  Speaker 1: all of her supporters executed, and at this point, yes
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  Speaker 1: his wife is dead. Is he makes Cleopatra his co regent,
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  Speaker 1: So from the age of fourteen she is ruling alongside
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  Speaker 1: her father. Now in fifty one bace, Ptolemy the twelfth
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  Speaker 1: passes away. He dies, and whatever way his will is
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: put together, is it puts Ptolemy the thirteenth, her younger brother,
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  Speaker 1: who's like thirteen or something, puts him in Cleopatra as
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  Speaker 1: co rulers now as again the Ptolemys, they used to
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  Speaker 1: marry each other. Now we don't actually have any evidence
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  Speaker 1: that they did marry. I mean, it would have been
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: strange for them not to, so if it didn't happen,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: then yeah, that would have been a very clear sign
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: from Cleopatra herself. But they're rolling together, and within a
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  Speaker 1: couple months of them rolling together, his name starts getting
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  Speaker 1: dropped from like official documents, making it very very clear
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  Speaker 1: that Cleopatra was not intent on sharing power with her
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: teenage brother. I mean, she's already been ruling for four
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  Speaker 1: years and then this teenage boy she's told it's her
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  Speaker 1: not only her equal, but she's actually supposed to be subordinate,
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  Speaker 1: like he's supposed to be the big I am, and
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  Speaker 1: she's supposed to follow his lead when he is a
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  Speaker 1: child who has not been like involved in any of
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: this where she has actually been rolling for so long,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: and like, yeah, within a couple months she just starts
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: removing the shit. No he's not thirteen yet, he's ten.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: He's ten. She has to rule alongside her ten year
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  Speaker 1: old brother, so literal child, actual child, and what the
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: actual fuck nonsense is this bullshit like no, So Cleopatra
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: she really leans into the Egyptian sides of things. So
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: when it comes to being crowned, like she does everything
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  Speaker 1: in a very Egyptian way, She brings the bull's head
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  Speaker 1: up to the hill. She does everything in a very
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: traditionally Egyptian way, which the Greeks were not too happy about.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: They thought it was kind of weird. But you know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: she knew she was ruling to certain people and she
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to represent them properly, and she wanted their support.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Like another thing she did is she leaned into the
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: religion and mythology of Egypt, where she like pharaohs were
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: meant to be like, you know, the divine right of
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: kings and the representation of gods in the earth like
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: a living god really, and so she positioned herself as
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the reincarnation of the goddess Isis, which is really fucking smart,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Like she is leaning into all the ways in which
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: she you know, is as a leader, you know why
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: she should be followed and respected, and it's just it's
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: so so clever. But unfortunately for Cleopatra in this first
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: year that she is she's rolling is there are famines
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and floods, like, the weather's not good, the crops aren't
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: doing well, so things are looking bad for her. And then,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: you know, like the Syrians and the Romans are having
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: like a tiphile and she sides with the Syrians. So
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: the Romans are just pissed at her already, and this
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: leads to them taking Ptolemy side with his supporters and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Ursin away and they get Cleopatra just ousted. She gets
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: exiled from Egypt. Now Cleopatra is not a fool, but
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: of course Cleopatra is not going to take this lying down,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: so she you know, goes around, she drums up mercenaries,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: she gets an army, and she goes to battle with
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: her brother's armies. So there's effectively a civil war happening
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: in Egypt. And this first battle she loses, and you know,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a good fight, but ultimately she's lost.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And this has taken her like a good year or
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: two to like amass the forces. So now she's back
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: to the drawing board. She needs to gain support again
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: because she's not going to give up. So by the
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: time Ptolemy is thirteen, he's happy as Larry, sitting on
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the throne Egypt. Unfortunately for him is that she isn't stopping,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: so she's got morbid army. There's sort of infighting going
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: on in Meanwhile, Julius Caesar and Pompey are having this
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: conflict and it leads them into Egypt. And while they're
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: in Egypt, and remember Ptolemy, Yeah, he's he's a top
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the thrown in Egypt, a thirteen year old ruling a country,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: and he rules it with the same maturity and levelheadedness
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: that one would expect a harmonal teenager to do. He
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: gets a bit sneaky snaky and has Pompey executed, and
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: then to prove to Julius Caesar that Egypt was not
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: like protecting him, he delivers Pompey's head. Now to Julius Caesar,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: this is like a massive affront to Rome, like, this
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: is a Roman citizen and you fucking beheaded him? What
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the actual fuck? Like. Also, meanwhile this is happening, Cleopatra
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: learned that Julius Caesar it was like a known secret
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: right that he had a thing for royal women. And
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: this is where the carpet myth comes from. So there's
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: three versions of this story. The first one Cleopatra is
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: smuggled inside. Julius Caesar's like, whatever hut palace, whatever the
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: fuck he's in. She smuggled in in a carpet. The
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: second story is that she smuggled in in a sack,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: and once like the sack has opened, she's in just
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: like all of this gorgeous regalia. And the third story
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: is she just arranged a meeting. She arranged a diplomatic
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: meeting with Julius Caesar, but when he showed up, she
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: made sure that she was dressed to the nines and
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: looked like absolute fucking royalty. And she pleaded with Julius
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Caesar to help her get her you know, get her
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: country back and find her brother. And he was like,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: can y'all not just make a truce, like this is
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: an internal issue and you really need to like resolve this,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: like I'm not involved. And then when he receives you know,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the decapitated head of his one time friend, mmm, he decides, no,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: he's gonna he's gonna side with Cleopatra on this one.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: So there's this battle. There is this battle with with
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Ptolemy and his his army, and at one point, like
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Julius c Is like defeated in this little battle and
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: he has to take off his cloak and everything else
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: and his gear and jump into the river. So you know,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the purple cloak is very much what the royal Romans
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: wore effectively. And our sinaway, who's like fourteen fifteen at
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: this point, like she's pretty young, is like she snatches
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the fucking cloak and she waves it back at Caesar
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: as in a big fuck you, like yeah, yeah, So
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: because she took the side of Ptolemy. In the end,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Ptolemy gets drowned in the river Nile, Bye bye Ptolemy,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: and Cleopatra takes her place on the throne, this time
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: alongside her even younger brother told me the fourteenth Now
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to get the ick. Time to remember that Julius Caesar
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: at this point was like fifty two years old and
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Cleopatra was twenty one. So while she's on the throne
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: of Egypt, they become lovers and she gives birth to
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: told me that the fifteenth Caesar, and he's nicknamed Caesarean,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So she is forever claiming that he is Caesar's son,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: and Caesar basically does not confirm that. So like his
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: current wife, I think is his third wife. Like they
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: don't have any children together, so whether it was a
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: respect thing or what, but like everybody knew that they
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: were together, that they were an item. But anyway, Cleopatra
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: like tries to convince Caesar to name Cesarean his heir,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: like his official heir. He does not do that. He's
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: got like one daughter I think from his I think
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: it's his first marriage. She's got her. But he ends
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: up naming his nephew, Octavian also known as Augustus, as
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: his success and Cleopatra isn't happy about this, but you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: she knows when to pick her battles. All the while
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: she is making these public declarations that you know, Caesarean
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: is Caesar's son, and he is silent like Julius Caesar.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: He doesn't like confirm nor deny, He just doesn't mention it.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: But she's going, yep, that's his son, it's him, Yep,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Luke Caesar, little Caesar Eger. And like the weird thing
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: is they don't exactly hide their relationship. And like he
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: invites Ptolemy and Cleopatra to visit Rome and then he
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: bestows like official titles of like friends of Rome on
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: them and they stay in his palace like they're staying
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: with him in this and it's just yeah. And what's
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: really funny as well is that Cleopatra is she used
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to wear a hair in like this very traditional like
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Greek style, so it was like curls and twists and
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: things like that, and it was so popular, like Cleopatra
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: was very much the girl of the day that because
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: she was so popular, Roman women started dressing and wearing
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: their hair like Cleopatra did, to the point where like
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Roman women were being like confused for Cleopatra, Like people
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: would stop them in the street and be like Cleopatra
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: and it was like, no, it's just like Cobernica or
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Helena or whoever. You know. So Cleopatra isn't like being
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: chill and hiding in the background. She's involved in doing shit.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: So she gets like a member of her courts to
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: come in and chat to Julius Caesar and they basically
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: work out you know, the calendar, the calendar that we
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: know now, the reason leap years exist, that's all because
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Cleopatra made these two dudes, like you know, So there's that.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: And while she's there, Chilius Caesar, even though again he's
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: not like declaring anything like audibly. He ends up. Fuck.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: He gets a golden statue of Cleopatra put in a
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: temple of Venus. Now this pissed people off, like this
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: was seen as as kind of like heresy, like it
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: was disrespectful. No, not only had he put a statue
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: of this woman, like this Egyptian Greek women in their temple.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: What he had done is he had inadvertently or maybe
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: advertently him's to say he had linked you know, not
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: only Cleopatra to Venus, but Venus to the goddess isis
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: like mmm, this left a bad taste in a lot
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: of mouths. So while they're there in Rome, well, as
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: you know, things didn't go too well for Julius Caesar
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: round about the IDEs of March. So middle of March,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: boom boom boom stebbish debby. He gets stabbed what forty
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: four times? And you'd think that this would be the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: point where she'd be like fuck, tend to get the
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: fuck out of Dodge. She stays for a month, Like,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: she doesn't leave till mid April. She stays in Rome.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Her lover and supporter has been murdered by the very
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: people who were supposed to support him. You'd think she'd
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: fuck off, like the hell at a dodge, but she goes, no,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: fuck this for a game of soldiers. And what does
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: she do. She tries to get Caesarean named assers are like,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: she's working on this, she is. She is proper stage
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: momming it. She was going down to the ground. But unfortunately,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: because his will stated that it was going to be
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Octavian Octavian, it was so when he arrives in Italy, Octavian.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: The very day the Octavian arrives in Italy is the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: very day that Cleopatra nopes out of there and gets
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: back to Egypt, like nope, and she goes. So there
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: she is with Ptolemy the fourteenth and they're co ruling
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Egypt and then oh, what do you know? He's been poisoned.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Oh dearie me. So that's him out the way. Like,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: here's the thing about the Ptolemaic you know line regime anyway,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: is that it's basically a game of fuck Mary kill,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: except you know, it's not a game, and it's with
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: your family. So they're doing this anyway. He dies, he's
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: murdered off, he goes, she poisoned him whips and next
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: thing you know, you know, she's supposed to have a
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: male co ruler. So what does she do. She elevates
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: her son to become co ruler. So her and Cesarean
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: are co regents of Egypt. Meanwhile, in Rome, so Octavian
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: marc Antony and Marcus and Relius Lepidus. I've probably fucked
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: up that name. Anyway, they formed the second Triumvirate in
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: forty three BC, and so effectively they're all elected for
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: these five year terms to restore order to the Roman
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Republic and to bring Caesar's assassins to justice. So Cleopatra
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: she's in Egypt, and she starts getting messages from like
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Gius Cassius Loranus, who was one of the people who
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: fucking assassinated Julius Caesar, and Dolabella, who is this caesarean loyalist, effectively,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: so they both ask her for aid and help, and
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: so she goes to Gius like she writes a let
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: her saying, oh, no, oh, there's too many internal conflicts
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: in Egypt right now, I couldn't possibly help, while sending
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: like all of the military that Caesar had left in
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: in Egypt, she had sent them on, you know, to Dolabella. Unfortunately,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: they're captured in Palestine by Cassius. Then, to add insult
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: to injury, her governor of Cyprus defects and goes to
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Cassius and Cleopatra, being Cleopatra, she personally takes her own
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: naval fleet to Greece to help Octavian and Mark Anthony
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: fight this bastard. Right, but there's like this storm in
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: the Mediterranean and everything is just her fleet is just
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: so badly damaged that she's too late to come and
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: help the fighting. But by the next year, like Mark Anthony,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: he defeats Gaius, like he wins in the Battle of
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Philippy Philippi, Philippi. Someone will correct me. He defeats the
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: forces of like Caesar's assassins, and this leads Brutus and
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Guias to both commit suicide. So, after you know, all
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: this blows over and Marc Anthony sets himself up, he
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: invites Cleopatra to join him to visit and she's like, no,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I'm okay, thanks, like straight away, I'm fine. Even though
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: he's effectively got control over half of the Roman Empire
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: and Octavian's got the other half, and like Lupitius. He's
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: just got like this tiny sluver. So when he sets
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: himself up, hey invites Cleopatra over. She rebuffs him, and
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: then he sends like a special envoy, and then she thinks.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: It's almost as if, after receiving the information that he
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: had such great power and control, she thought it might
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: be worthwhile to meet with him. Who had have thunk it.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: It's almost as if aligning herself with people in power
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: was something that she knew to do. Huh. So marc
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Anthony wanted her to meet him at Tursos so that
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: she could officially clear her name. So she was invited
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: by the Triumvirate to basically go and plead her case
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: because there was this whole misconception that she had supported Cassius.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: But yeah, she knew what she was doing. So she
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: decided to show up in fucking style. I mean, I
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: love a bit of extra I can't I can't deny it.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: So she sailed down the Nile on a golden barge
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: adorned with purple sails and silver oars, while she was
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: dressed as the goddess Aphrodite. So purple, as you know,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: is a Roman color, Like it's a royal Roman color,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: and she's a queen, so she can do whatever the
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: fuck she wants. Really, so she made sure that she
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: was just the most ultimately dramatic, extra just entrance. I
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: fucking love it. So she knew because she's she had
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: spies learning things, because she's not a fucking idiot, she's
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: a mastermind. She had information. She knew that Marc Anthony
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: basically fancied him to be the human embodiment of Dionysius,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: the Greek god of wem revelway. So he meets her,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: he's just so fucking impressed, like wow, and you know,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: she gets off and all the charges. Everyone believes her.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Everything's good, and she ends up inviting Mark Anthony to Egypt,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: to Alexandria, really and when he shows up in Alexandria,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: he actually ends up with this really good welcome, so
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: he is, well, he doesn't have an occupying force, which
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: is tip top. But he was also like when he
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: was really young, he was part of the campaign to
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: get her father back in the throne, so that was welcomed.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: And also like he had, you know, brought Cleopatra like
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: it was a whole thing. So yes, she also somewhere
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: in here can convinces them that her sister arsinaway needs
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: to be sent to like a temple to be banished. Right,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: so she gets banished and sent to a temple, which
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: is its own thing. It meant that she was I mean,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: she was out the way, but it also meant that
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: she was protected, like being in the temple was also
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: kind of like sanctuary, like if you were a member
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: of the temple, like you were safe. So when she
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: gets murdered on the steps of the temple, it does
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: not look good from Anthony and Cleopatra, like that's a
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: big no, no, Like it's not good. So the two
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: of them together they start this drinking club, right, and
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: they have this mad parties and they're hunting together and
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: playing dice and partying, and she's watching him do military exercises.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Like things are going well. She gets pregnant with twins
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Alexander Helios and Cleiopatra Selene, Sun and Moon supposed to
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: usher in a new era kind of thing, and Mark
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Anthony he goes, yep, those are my kids. He claims it.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: He doesn't hide it. It's a whole thing. And yeah,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: they have this got the drinking club. Yeah, the society
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: of inimitable levels. So they would have games and contests
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: and wearing disguises and playing pranks on people, elaborate games, feasts,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: wine binges. It was just these massive, just fun things,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: lots of I don't know, it just sort of feels
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: like she's there and she wasn't doing any of this
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: kind of shit when she was with Caesar. She was
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: just kind of a round. But she's very much leading
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: into his dinosis issue and very much being what he
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: wanted in that time, Like she's being who she needs
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to be for him at that time, you know, to
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: have his support. So unfortunately for Cleopatra and mark Antony,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: he's married to Octavian's sister Octavia, because you know, unoriginal
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: names are not just limited to Egyptian society. So they're married,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: they have kids, but Anthony's still off galliv Anton m Cleopatra,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: and she gets him, you know, because he's got like
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: half of the power of Rome and the Roman Empire.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Like she gets him to like give what was previously
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Egyptian lands back to her, and they end up having
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: another kid as well, and so they have three kids together.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: And so what she does is she gets him to
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: like sign off on decreze, you know, giving like Cyprus
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: to one kid, Syria to another, so on and so forth.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Like they get married in this Egyptian ceremony even though
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: he already has a Roman wife in Rome. It's one
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: of those things where it's like legitimate in one way
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: and illegitimate in another. But yes, so there's there's this
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: going on. Meanwhile, Octavian he's trying to like gain power himself,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: like he's really unhappy with Mark Andony, and he starts
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: this propaganda campaign against Cleopatrick. So he continuously promotes this
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: as this is a foreign queen and she's been and rule,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: she's been given power. She is tainting like the men
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: of Rome. It's like she destroyed Julius Caesar. She's luring
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Mark Antony and bewitching him with her wiles and witchcraft boogie,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: because she's the big whore with magic vagina or something.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Because of course she cannot be an intelligent, witty, erudite,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: just smart fucking woman who knows how to I don't know.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Maybe she was really good at manipulation. That doesn't mean
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: she was a slut. Like it's discontinuous, like she's she
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: went to countries without an interpreter because she spoke all
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: their fucking languages, and so she'd always have the upper hand.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: She always aligned herself with the more powerful men who
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: were ruling. You know. So basically, shit goes bad for
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: mark Antony and he has as to well head about this.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: He needs trips, So Octavian sends his sister, mark Antony's wife, Octavia,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: with two thousand troops to show up to give to
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: mark Antony so that he can, you know, do what
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: he needs to do. But it was meant to be
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: like a really embarrassing thing, like look how he has
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: treated his poor wife back home. But what's funny about
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: this is that Octavia never leaves mark Antony's household like
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: she could. She's within her rights because the way that
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Octavian had promoted this, the way that he had put
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: it out there, like she was a woman who was
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: life has been destroyed by this foreign horror effectively, and
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: you know, Rome would have been on her side, But
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: she didn't leave the household. She didn't want to leave
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: the household. I don't know why. It seems like she
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: was pretty okay with him not being around. Maybe she
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I mean let's face it, he does seem like a
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: pretty immature guy, pretty dramatic, and she seems to be
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: okay with him not being you know, in the vicinity.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe she's like, yeah, ky, Cleopatra, you have him,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: it's fine, yay. You know. Plus her brother is, you know,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: another part of the triumvirate, so like it's fine. It's
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: not as if she doesn't have power or access to it.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: And like the only reason that marc Antony and Octavia
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: got married it was supposed to be this sort of
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: agreement to help settle the rule of Rome. So maybe
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: she wasn't even into the marriage. She was like fine,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I guess, you know, because they got married after the
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: twins were born, So maybe she just wasn't into it.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe she just wasn't that into him, which would be
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: really funny. So, yes, Octavian is pested because you know,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: not only have you got the fact that his sister's
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: husband is you know, spending time with a foreign queen,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: but they also did this, They did this big celebration
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: called the Donations of Alexandria, and they signed this thing
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: and it's the intention to rule the civilized world. Ah.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: So like again this is where they split everything off.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: This kid get this, this kid get that. And so
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: he's like, oo, do do He's giving Roman land to
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: this foreign women globble gobble, gobble gobble, and he like
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: does this whole thing about how they want to move
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: the capital of Rome to Alexandria. It's like they're gonna
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: take everything from us, dirty foreigners. Where have we heard
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: this before? But Egypt at this point is like flourishing
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: under Cleopatra's rule. So like when mark Antony when he
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to like go to war and shit, he would
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: come back to her for money and she's like, yeah, okay,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: but give me shit first. So she would get him
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: to send the good things and she would finance stuff,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: and you know, she was kind of like a sugar mummy,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I think, to mark Antony for a bit. She partied
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: with him, She paid for him to go and fight
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: the Parthians and stuff, you know, sugar mummy stuff. Oh
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: that's right. Mark Antony is a dramatic little bitch and
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: is sugar baby. That's right. You heard it your first, lads. AnyWho,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: in order to like convince you know, Rome that Cleopatra
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: was the fucking enemy, he gets a copy. He gets
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: the copy of mark Antony's will because he's gone back
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and he's, you know, he wants to get divorced from Octavia.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: It's been a whole thing, and this is just the
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: spark which is perfect for Octavian. So he goes into
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: the Temple of Vestro Virgins and takes the will, which
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: is again not a thing you're supposed to do. It's
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: meant to be like a big no no. And so
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: he gets that and he reads the will and it
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: basically says that Caesarean is Caesar's air, not Octavian, and
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: that the donations of Alexandria were like all above board,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: and that marc Antony wanted to be buried in Egypt
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: next to Cleopatra instead of Rome. So all of this
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: together basically just fueled the propaganda machine and it fucking worked,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: and Rome the Roman Senate declares war on Cleopatra. So
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: thirty one BCE the Battle of Actium. It's this naval battle.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: It's in the west coast of Greece, really, and Cleopatra
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: and mark Antony are both there like a bunch of
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Roman generals. They were like, listen, you know, a lot
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: of Rome feel like you're defecting, so probably best not
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: to have Cleopatra there. Plus, she could easily better defend
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Egypt from fucking Egypt. And Cleopatra demands to be there,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: she demands to be seen. She's not gonna be put
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: on the sidelines. And Mark Antony obviously isn't going to
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: go against her because she's the one who brought like
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: several hundred fucking ships to the fleet. He's not fucking
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: with that. So upon seeing her, there are a bunch
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: of Romans just they fucking leave, they're defect to the
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: other side. They're gone, And Cleopatra and Antony have like
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: a bigger fleet, but like not everyone is as well
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: trained as like the Romans because they had like merchant
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: vessels and all their shit, like, because Cleopatra is a
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: very good she was very good at convincing people to
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: do things. So you know, even though there's more of them,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: when you're again somebody who's like incredibly better trained than you,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: surprisingly enough, things do not go we So they fucking
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: loose and Anthony and Cleopatra just flee for Egypt out
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: of the way adios or wah bah bye. But as
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: they're leaving, so he like gets on her fucking ship
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't speak to her for three days, like
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: he's pouting, like her ladies in waiting have to come
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: and like urge him to speak to her when it's
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: like they kept trying to push her out of the
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: battle and she kept trying to protect Egypt and it
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: was a whole Oh, it was just a consistent just clash.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: So they he's pouting, they don't speak for ages, and
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: then when they get to Egypt, they go their separate ways.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: He goes one, she goes the other. Like he goes
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: off to Serene to try and like get more troops,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: and she goes onto the harbor in Alexandria basically to
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: kind of imply that you know, they're doing well, that
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: they are winning battles, because she doesn't want like a
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: dropping morale and she doesn't want any excuse for rebellion
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: because remember she's she already saw her like father be
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: exiled and her sister get overthrown, and you know, several
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: members get murdered, so she knows to be careful. So
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Mark Antony, he's headed to Serene. Turns out the dooty
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: left in charge ends up defecting to Octavian side, and
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: so mark Antony, on hearing this, almost commits suicide but doesn't,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: like almost well, people are trying to convince him to like, like,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: you know, just betray Cleopatra and go back to Octavian. Meanwhile,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Cleopatra is back in Egypt, and she's putting everything in
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: place basically to declear like Caesarean, the ruler of Egypt,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the next ruler. Like, she is getting everything in place
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: for her son to make sure that everything is going
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: to go well for him, probably because she realized that
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: the very dramatic man is probably you know, maybe just
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: a teeny whiny etcy bit's a bit of a liability,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: you know. So Cleopatra's plan was to just abdicate. She
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: was going to relinquish the throne, give it to Caesarean,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: and then she would just fuck off to somewhere in
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: the Mediterranean, because it's not as if she didn't have money,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: and you know, the gift of the gab, she would
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: have been Okay, she was getting ready to just survive.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: She was getting ready to sert like all she always
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: done throughout her whole life. Survive. But over the next
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: like six months to a year, like her and Mark
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Anthony are both like sending messages to Octavian. They're trying
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: to negotiate like this whole thing, and Octavian only respond
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: to Cleopatra completely ignores marc Antony. It's it's a little
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: bit funny, actually, Like he'll deal with Cleopatra because I mean,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: she is the one with the real power here, because
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: you know, he's beaten marc Antony in so many ways
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: that like he's not exactly that relevant. So Cleopatra asks
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: that you know, you know, requests, shall we say, that
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: her children inherit Egypt, and that Antony should be allowed
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: to live in exile and Egypt. And she offers Octavian
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: like money and treasure and like sends him like all
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: of these like amazingly expensive wretch lavish geest, like she's
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: trying to like control them a wee bit. And also
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: then when that isn't working, she's like, I will burn
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: myself to death and all of my treasure like in
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: this tomb that I have already constructed. Because here's the thing.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Egyptians like basically built their tombs pretty quick during their lives,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: usually so that it was ready for them when they
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: did pass so Octavian sends like a diploma after she
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: threatens to burn herself and all of her treasure and money,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: because obviously that's probably the more important thing, and like
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: he's got diplomats there, and he tells her to kill
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Anthony so that her life is spared. But then Anthony
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: finds out about it, and he has the diplomat fucking
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: whipped and flogged and sent back to Anthony without it. Sorry,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: sent back to Octavian without a deal. Now, I just
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: so Cleopatra is clearly trying to negotiate here and you know,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: finding out the best way to work with Octavian, and
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Mark Antony's like fuck this, fuck you kicking over chairs
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: and shit, like it's not it's not the most diplomatic
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: of ways, shall we say? Okay? Eventually Octavian says like
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: he's not getting anywhere, so he invades Egypt, you know,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: And so he invades and marc Antony fights him and
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: so on and so forth. Eventually Anthony's defeated and Octavian
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: gets into Egypt and Cleopatra is hiding in her tom
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: and she sends a note to marc Antony saying that
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: she's committed suicide which she hasn't because she's clearly alive.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: So just overwhelmed with emotion or some shit mark and
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: and he stabs himself in the stomach because I mean,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: I feel like, as as a warrior and someone who's been,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: you know, in battle quite a bit, you probably know
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the best way to kill a person, and stabbing yourself
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: in the stomach is a very slow and excruciating way
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: to die. Like that's that's that's that's some drama queen
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: action right there, Like that's hmm. So he ends up
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: being like taken to the tomb where he's like fucking
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: bleeding out and tells her, you know there's one person
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: you can still, you know, trust you can trust this
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: guy who stood. Unfortunately, no, you fucking can't, because what
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: happens is guys comes in, grabs her by the hair
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: and drags her out of the tomb to Octavian. When
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Octavian rolls in, he allows clear to embalm and bury
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: marc antony, like why why would he give her permission
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: to do things? And then she's kicking about in her tomb.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been in a tomb, but
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Egyptian tombs and they're built with pressure, so they're effectively
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: air tight. It's it's a very complicated scenario. They're very
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: much air tight. You can't let a fire in them.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: There's no light coming in, you know, because if you
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: light a fire, the place is full of smoke. And
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: she's going back and forth with Octavia. He says he's
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: going to seize her childre Well, he takes her kids.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: He's seized her children, Caesarean, she's managed to send away
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: and he's fled. But her three children with Marc Antony,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: they're still there, and he says he's planning to bring
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: them back to Rome. Here's the thing. If he did
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: bring them back to Rome, it wouldn't have been hard to,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: you know, promote himself as a great leader who protected
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the children of mark Antony. You know, like it wouldn't
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: be a big deal. But you know, there's this whole
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: thing about how he doesn't kill her, but then doesn't
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: doesn't tell her what he's going to do with her,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: and then apparently I distrust apparently but apparently you know,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: some spy lets or know that he's planning to parade
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: her in Rome, which honestly, I don't think would have
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: been an incredibly clever thing to do them. Anyway, So
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Cleopatra is in this tomb or she's in her palace.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Now here's the thing. There's it's always assumed she's in
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: the tom because she'd hidden in the tom there. But
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: there's no real proof as to whether she was in
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: her tomb or in her palace when she died. Because
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: if she's in her tomb, okay, the story is she's
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: in the tomb, a basket of figs is brought into her,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: and in it is an asp. She put to the
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: asp against her breast. It kills her, and then her
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: maids take it and they kill them. A note has
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: been sent to Octavian. By the time he gets there,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: the last maid is dying. A couple of fucking problems
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: with this is I am someone who is obsessed with
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: poison and venom. Okay, listen, it's we all have our hobbies, Okay.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: So Cleopatra is one way or another really close to Octavian.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: They're either in the same building or they're in adjacent buildings.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: So you're talking somewhere between three and eight minutes probably
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: to get from one to the other. Like logically, thinking
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: about the size of buildings. And you know the fact
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: that he would have fucking rushed if she was to
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: be a prize. And she's killed herself because she kept
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: threatening to burn herself. Like if her body is burned,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: how could anyone prove that it was her body that
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, to be paraded. So let's talk
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: about the ASP. When people think of an ASP, it's
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: generally portrayed as like the skinny little you know, wibbly
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: wobbly snake, an Egyptian ASP. Well, it's a fucking cobra.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: It is a cobra. Can you imagine trying to smuggle
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: in a cobra? Fuck off? Not only that, when they
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: come in, where's the fucking cobra? There is no explanation.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Nobody sees a cobra, nobody sees any kind of snake.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: They just see marks on her body. Right. Also, you know,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: if you are bitten by a cobra, it's gonna take
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: you like six hours to die, now, you it's gonna
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: be a slow death where your muscles will like atrophy
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: and then you will suffocate, you know. So those maids
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: watch this happen and then when yep, so they would
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: have also like you think that snake is gonna patiently
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: just like buy all three of you one at a time.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: And you're telling me neither of these maidens were like
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: scared after you know, of getting fucking bitten, And like again,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: how could the last one just die when Octavian objectively
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: has to be very close to them because he's not
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: gonna leave, because he's not gonna lose this. Like Octavian
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: was negotiating with her for a fucking year before Marc
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Anthony killed himself, and now he's killed himself. So you know,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: she is probably a smarter person to work with than
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: anybody else. Could she have poisoned herself? Perhaps she knew
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: about poisons, she was very smart, but poisons could have
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: poisoned herself and her maids. But she probably would have
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: poisoned the maids first, you know, like logically. But also
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: all the information we have about Cleopatra's death come from
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: copies of Octavian's writing, like it's all from them. So
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: why do we assume that this woman who has always
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: and continuously showed herself to be a survivor would suddenly
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: give up like she'd already sent this fake suicide note
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: to Mark antony, And why would she send a suicide
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: note to Octavian knowing that, you know, if it is
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: the snake, that he was going to be there, like
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: he would have what he would have like he could
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: have stopped her, because they would have had to send
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: the note and then had the cobra do it's bitte
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: bitte venom venom thing, you know, like, and you have
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: to ensure that the snake has enough vemoen to go around,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: like three for the grown women. So it all just
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: seems a little fucking sus like. And we don't have
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: her body yet. If these guys do find her too,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: then we might have some actual fucking answers. They can
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: scan it and see if there was any like mortal
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: wounds on her body, because it very much seems like
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: just so out of character for her to just end
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: her own life, especially knowing that she couldn't protect her
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: children when she had done so much. She'd put so
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: much in place to ensure that they would be protected.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: They would have separate rules, they would have separate countries,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: you know, everything was done to ensure they were protected
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: and supported and safe. She had made sure to send
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Caesarean away so that he would be protected. She was
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: planning to give up her rule because she knew, you
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: know what, effectively what the public opinion of her was
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: from Rome, and she had to protect Egypt, and she
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: had to protect her children. But by killing herself, she
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: puts all of them in danger. Like it just doesn't
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: fucking add up, and like it just doesn't add up.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: And in thirty BCE, in August, Cleopatra, the last great
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: ruler of Egypt, dies pretty convinced she was murdered or
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: it was some kind of accidental death, like somebody lost
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: their temper. They were trying to get, you know, information
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: out of her something, and then you know, our God,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: she could have had like a brain embolism or something.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: It could have been anything. I just genuinely don't think
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: a woman this determined to survive and to protect all
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: of our kids would just end her own life and
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: put everyone in danger. Just doesn't just saying and God.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: So Octavian then declares his name, his new name, his
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: ruling name, Augustus, after the month in which he defeated
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Cleopatra by her dying. But for some reason, for somebody
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: who didn't care about Cleopatra, didn't respect her, anything like that.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: He apparently allows her to be buried properly in the
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Egyptian way with mark Antony, like in her tomb with
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: the necessary like treasures and valuables and everything, you know,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: fucking Egyptian. Apparently he allows this to happen before like
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: taking over the rule of Egypt. Also Caesarean is you know,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: the ruler of Egypt for eighteen days before he is
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: unceremoniously murdered and our children with mark Antony are sent
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: to Octavia like his former wife, and the boys kind
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: of mysteriously disappear from history. But Octavia arranges for Cleopatra
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Selene to get like wed to a great supporter of
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: her brother, and you know, they have a pretty okay life.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Actually things work out pretty okay for her. But yeah,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: it's it's just the boys just disappear, and so ends
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: the story of Cleopatra kind of because she will be
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: continuously slandered. We can't slander the dead, but flied about
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: and misinformation spread, just continuously labeled as a harlot when
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Chock surprised she was so much more if she was that.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: So what have we learned today? The easiest thing to
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: gain and the hardest thing to lose as a woman
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: is a reputation. Bim, doesn't matter if you're the ruler of,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: you know, half of a fucking empire, you can still
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: be a giant man baby, and that throughout history, men
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: will always find a way to be shitty to women.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: Now that that's been said, Uh, recommendation time, I am
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: going to recommend for listening, if you don't already listen
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: to Murder Most Irish, you should be listening to Murder
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Most Irish. They're fucking fantastic. Go listen to them. Now.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: For watching, I'm going to recommend White Lotus. It's I'm
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: kind of feeling it. I'm going to do a second recommendation.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Actually watch Glass Onion. If you haven't watched The Glass Onion,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: you're seriously depriving yourself of some murder, mystery, dark comedy.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Love it. Fantastic, brilliant. And for reading, I'm going to
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: recommend Richard Osmond's The Thursday Murder Club. So I haven't
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: read the other two yet, but I've read that one
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: and it's very good. Go read it. It's fun, it's slowly,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: it's good. You're gonna love it. So that being said,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: if you want to remember, if you want to. That's
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: the new year. You know, we're moving on into whatever
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: energy we want to put out there. So if you
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: are an artist who wants to do some kind of
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: image portrait thing, I've had a few people message me
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: about it, so I'll put out here too. If you
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: want to have a chat, if there's anything you want
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: me to look into, or any topic you want to recommend,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: you can, like you can email me all the stuffs
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: on my website. You can always DM me on Instagram.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: Is the easiest way to get a hold of me. Yeah,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: you know, just message me if you want. If you haven't,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: if you want to say something, you can always just
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: give me a wee message. If you want to support
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: the podcast's podcasts one podcast, then you can just like
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: follow me on socials and share stuff there, Share this
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: episode with your friends, rate and review five stars, and
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: say nice things about me. You can say what you want.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter. I mean, do I like it
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: when I get compliments? Abbs fusing lutely of course. Actually
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: sidebar before I leave, someone was complaining that you know
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: again about my chest and how it's an issue because
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: apparently I cannot be a historian and have a bosom
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: like sorry for having great facts and even greater tips
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: whips a daisy, but like they're just there sometimes, like
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: I posted videos that I had recorded during a heat wave,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: but I hadn't posted because another historian friend of mine
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: had posted something similar. And you know, overlap is fine,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: but sometimes when stuff's too close together, it feels like copying.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: And I don't want people to tag me saying they
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: copied me, or vice versa, and it's you know, it's fine,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: but yeah, so that's where that is. And oh, because
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: I have an obsession with like vintage murder mysteries, I
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: was thinking of doing like a TikTok live or an
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Instagram live. I would read chapters from well, like old
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: school motor mysteries or mysteries in general. But I don't
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: know whether to like do on the hooded want Out
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: channel or whether to like make a separate one. And
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to do, So if any of
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: you have any opinions on that, feel free to just
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: message me about it, Tweet me all that jazz, because
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: I I go through all them, I might not reply
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: to everything just because I'm so busy. But we'll see
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: how we get on. But with that, I'm gonna wish
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: you all a happy New Year. I hope you all
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: have a good one, or at least have at least
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: one good month where things aren't fucking shit and horrible,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: you know, But I shall wish you good night. Arios
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: au Revoir of Where does the My Friends Bibby