Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Co-Living With a Life Wife After Divorce

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Co-Living With a Life Wife After Divorce · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationship, separation, and divorce.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage, these are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce, or reorganizing life afterwards.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Warren Tree people of the Kulin Nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to this week's episode of the podcast, a guest episode with Jenna Wilson and Priscilla Jones, who spent two and a half years co-living and co-parenting their two children after each of them found themselves suddenly single.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: And Jenna advertised on a Facebook group to find a co-living partner.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: And how they found in one another not just housemates, but created or co-created with their two children a unique and different kind of family.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: And even though they no longer live in the same house, they remain deeply, deeply connected.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jenna and Priscilla.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Jenna and Priscilla, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Priscilla, you're at the top of my screen, so perhaps we can start with you.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: Can you just share a little bit about your life with Jenna?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, absolutely.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So my life with Jenna.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I guess uh well when you first say my life with Jenna, I just think fun.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was so much fun.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot of fun.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think coming out of something so sensitive and tender as a marriage separation.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: There was so much up in the air.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was really scared.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was in a really tender place.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Where am I gonna live?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: What does single mumming look like?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And finding Jenna, seeing Jenna, meeting Jenna, it was I I think I I don't want to speak for her, but for me it was an instant connection, an instant bond that I saw in her.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then we created this co-created this beautiful home, home living situation, which um yeah, it was really surprising to me after, as I say, that that marriage situation.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: And for you, Jenna, how would you describe life with Sill?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I suppose just for a bit of context for the listeners that don't know me and Sill, um, we both went through separations from our husbands at basically exactly the same time.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't know each other during that period of time.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was living in a three-bedroom house, which I'd lived in since I was pregnant, and I had a seven-month-old baby, and I couldn't afford the rent.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So tried to get creative and realised that I could potentially share my house with another single mum.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So put an advert online.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Seal responded, and then, like Seal said, it was kind of an instant connection.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was really like meeting a sister.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we um Seal popped over to my house to come and meet me and my daughter Maya with her son Leo.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So Maya was seven months and Leo was two at the time.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they um were too young to play, weren't they, really?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but Maya was just hanging out in a bouncer, and Leo was just like jumping on the tables and just being a generally kind of hectic toddler.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we just chatted, and Seal asked me tons of personal questions, and it was like um no filter, like just kind of like raw openness, like how were things for you in your marriage, and how are you feeling emotionally now?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so we just had a brilliant chat.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: We just chatted for hours, and then um, and I remember kind of saying, um, if we if we do choose to do this, like if if you do move in, and Sil was kind of like, can we cut the BS and just say we both knew instantly that we were gonna do this?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so Syl and I lived together and raised our children for two and a half years, and we're just in a period of transition now when we've both moved out into our own apartments.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you both for sharing.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really keen to hear a little bit more about the process.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Jenna, you've shared a bit.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: Sil, what was your experience of kind of seeing the ad?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, and I guess next steps after that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I loved the ad.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: The ad was very detailed in what Jen wanted.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: So like I went through the list and I was like, yep, I've got that, I've got that, I've got that, that's awesome.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it just sounded like it sounded like characteristics she was looking for to create a beautiful home.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what it was.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: She wasn't looking for a housemate or just someone to rent a room.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, hey, this is what our home is going to look like, and this is what I want in a person, and that really appealed to me because I'm a relationships counselor, I'm a relationships person, and so just seeing the way that she had thought about this gave me an insight into her and what she's looking for, and and that really appealed to me.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this sounds excellent.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: This sounds like a great space for me to for me and Leo, my son, to to be held and to grow into.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: The word healing came up for me then.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know whether both of you or either of you felt that you know coming out of a marriage, a relationship, um, and then co-living and co-creating this home was a healing experience.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Would you say that it was?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I kind of was joking about this the other day to see all that like, I mean, how many people get to live with a relationships therapist for two and a half years post their divorce?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I've processed so much stuff.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I've processed like stuff from childhood, you know, but I've certainly processed the end of my marriage through having somebody constantly being like, How are you feeling?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and what do you think about this?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that mean for your other relationships, you know?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, yeah, I think women heal in relationship to others, and probably people generally, but particularly I think women really process a lot of stuff like together in community.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so there was a lot of like warm drinking and crying when the children were with their dads, and you know, some partying and some like, you know, I think just like learning who we were as people outside of that relationship, um, and kind of being like mates, but also like family members in in our home.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so good.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Lots of power in healing in community, absolutely.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm also interested to know what did other people put in your lives first say or say when you first told them about this decision, this arrangement.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty positive.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like even my ex-husband, like he was like, that's great.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we actually had the uh the ex-husbands come and sit and meet, and we had a little meet and greet in chat, which was really nice.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: My parents were super stoked with that.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like they were really happy that I was going to be living with someone and um yeah, have that sort of family home again, not just go straight into living by myself with Leo.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and friends, yeah.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're real everyone, everyone I told was like, and continue to tell, like, it's like that is so cool, like, wow, that's so great.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so it generally very, very positive.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And for you, Jen?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there wasn't one person in my life that was like, oh, I'm not sure about this, or like maybe there's risks attached to it.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone was just like, we trust that you make good decisions and that you're prioritizing Mayor's safety and Mayor's well-being over anything.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you've met this person and had this incredible connection.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so therefore, it's like, you know, it's got to be right.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think I'm a very lucky person.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it kind of wasn't surprising to me in a weird way that I would just like come through something so stressful and hard and then walk into something so bloody amazing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think everybody was just like, you know, you've just like pulled it off again and like something magical's happened.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I don't know that you're lucky.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think that you know, you've co-created your own magic here.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what was the what was the hardest part about this arrangement?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe looking back, what surprised you about it?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Cel?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um to you, Sil.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: The surprises were more like just all the positives, like Jen and I talk about it a lot, like, oh gosh, this wouldn't work for everyone.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or or even like, well, we should have asked each other this, or it's just so great that that worked out, and da-da-da.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um so the surprises were all really positive.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't expecting to combine our lives that much.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it just worked out.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: It worked out so well.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think the hardest part for me was just the general living with someone.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like now I live on my own and I'm noticing like just the differences and spaciousness.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's more of a personal thing.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um before you go on, tell me a little bit about you know how well it worked.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: You said you sort of went like this when you explained.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we opened a joint bank account and we would do groceries, like our groceries would come out at joint bank account and rent and bills.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then if we had some spare, we'd go get that's what we'd use for baby chinos or activities or doing stuff out together.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had our like weekly routines.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's days where Jen would cook, there's days where I would cook.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had a wife day, which I loved.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's like jobs that were mine.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, the routine of like picking Mayor up from daycare and then cooking dinner.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really loved that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I still got to be a wife and I still got to have my wife energy.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I I really loved that.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, that's what I mean by the the like enmeshment or like the the combining of our lives, story time, bedtime, bath time, like these were all the beautiful routine that yeah, we did together, which was really nice.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: And what about for you, Jenna?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Hardest part and what surprised you, if anything?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it like Sil said, it surprised me that probably that it ended up being a family, and that was never something that I was looking for.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't looking for a co-parent.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was I really was looking for a flatmate that was going to be respectful and like contribute to the house and be a nice person to have around.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wasn't kind of looking for like a best mate, sister, wife, you know.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think just how it quickly it we just established our routine.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like we weren't sitting down and being like, hey, I feel like this or I need this from you, or like, can we adjust this?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not working for me.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it just kind of did mostly just work just perfectly.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that was something that I didn't expect.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't expect, I think, the relationship between Leo and Maya, like they really talk a lot about how they feel like they're siblings.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I never expected that Maya would kind of get a sibling.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then my relationship with Leo, like to like love a child so much that like isn't biologically yours or isn't genetically part of your family, but to love that boy so much and to want to like snuggle him at bedtime or like read him stories or like get involved with bathing him.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And like I think it was just that was amazing.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then seeing Maya's relationship with Seal.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: So Maya's always called Seal Seal Mummy.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So when Seal moved in, obviously Maya couldn't talk, she couldn't walk, she couldn't talk.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then as Maya learned to talk, she started um calling Seal Mummy Seal or Seal Mummy, and then that just carried on, didn't it, Sill?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it was just really cool that Seal's been there through seeing her first words and seeing her walk for the first time, and like, you know, and then now seeing them learn boundaries and relationships.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's been an incredible thing to share together.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: You just mentioned the word boundaries, which is something I wanted to ask you both about.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Were there boundaries or ground rules that you put in place specifically?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And was there anything more formal, like a legal document drawn up between the two of you?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So Seal went on the lease.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really important to me that Seal um had rights, had tenancy rights.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So Seal went onto the lease with me, and then my ex came off the lease.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was the legal, the legal document.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then other than that, like we did have a chat, didn't we, Seal?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: But really the only boundary that I remember us coming up with was that we didn't want men in the house when the children were home.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, you know, going through separation, we were starting to explore dating, um, and our parenting schedule conflicted quite a lot.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot of nights when Seal was home and so was Maya, but Sil didn't have Leo.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was the only kind of boundary I remember us discussing was that we we just wouldn't want men that we were dating in the house when there was a child in the house.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Did you have anything to add there, Sil?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, that was it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: That was yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um moving on to Maya and Leo, they obviously you've shared a little bit about their experience through this.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: They obviously learned things too.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: What were the big positives?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: And Jen, you've already touched a little bit on this.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: What were the big positives for the children?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: So Sil, maybe do you want to share?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I guess, I guess the the thing that stands out the most is the sharing.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, when when Leo and I first moved in, Leo couldn't share.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Mayo was a baby, so it was this whole thing, and it was like teaching him how to share.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then by the time I think she'd there was a period where they both couldn't share, or like, you know, there's still that that sibling tension, and like, that's mine, this is mine, and blah blah blah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, no, that's actually May's, or that's actually Leo.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, just the concept of sharing.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but generally just yeah, but they came to have a beautiful, a beautiful relationship of um, yeah, really taking care of each other and they had their and then they would gang up on me and Jen.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um so good.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's kids do right when they live together, gang up on the parents of the adults in the room.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm interested too, what do you think um the co-parenting and co-living taught each of you about navigating life conflict, whether it's between the two of you or between the kids?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: What did each of you learn?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: Jenna, would you want to go first there?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was organized to the boundaries, to be honest, before Sill.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we were how old was I when we moved in together?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Was I like 36 or I was 37, I think.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think I even really understood like how to appropriately set a boundary and hold it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so Sill really supported me a lot in that.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's that's a skill that everybody needs to develop, and it's I would have liked to have learnt that earlier in my life, but I think I really did learn from Seal boundaries and then a lot about self-care.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like Sill is very dedicated to her self-care, and that's kind of infectious, and just having wellness in the house, like Sil would like dance in her room or do yoga, or she's going out walking all the time.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like Sill's a very healthy person, um, and that's really inspiring, and I think that that was helpful for me.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I feel like Seal's an amazing communicator, and I think getting to learn like how to communicate hard things from Sill was was really beneficial for me, and then just yeah, navigating challenging relationships and difficult conversations and all of that type of stuff.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like Sill's an amazing relationships therapist.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for sharing, Jenna.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Sill, do you want to opt in here?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the thing that I like You should take all those compliments though.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I'm just trying to receive that.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Jenna and I talked so much, and I really liked, and we just we have a very similar communication style.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it was there was some flow, there was flow there, which was really great.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't know, I don't think we formally stated this, but we we started saying, okay, what's your needs and what's your preference?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like one of us would ask the other, hey, can we have someone over tonight or can we do this?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know, I would I would be able to say, Oh, um, I either need alone time and like no, or it's or it's my preference, or like, yeah, but it'd be fine, but yeah, my preference is that we don't, or blah blah blah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So just having that language, like what's your need versus your preference, and then the other one can sort of they know where they stand, then then they can make a decision was just really helpful.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And like, if I do have the need for space or socialness or togetherness, like whatever it's welcome and it's adapted to, it's not it's not a burden, it's just like extra information for the other person.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that language was really useful for us.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Have either of you taken that language and that expressing of needs and preferences into other areas, other relationships in your lives?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I guess for yeah, I I guess I think so.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's just it's kind of already there a little bit, yeah, with certain relationships.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I mean, yeah, not as close because I haven't lived with anyone else other than Jen, but yeah, I would say so.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's in other relationships.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you, Jenna?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I use the skills I learnt with Seal all the time, like at work or like you know, with my sister when she's frustrating me, or like whatever.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are skills you can apply to all um to all relationships.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was just thinking the other thing that Sil really taught me was um, I remember when Seal moved in and I said, you know, I'm a vegetarian, I've been a vegetarian for I don't know, like four years now or something.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And Sil kind of could see the type of stuff that was in the fridge, and it was really just like vegetables, um, and then like these vegetarian sausages I like, and then I love gravy because I'm English and I just grew up eating gravy every single night.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And Sil was like, I'm gonna teach you to be a good vegetarian, and then just all these beautiful things kept coming in, like tofu and um, you know, lentil curries and you know, and chickpeas and stuff, and our kids would just snack on nuts and edamame.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think like Seal introduced just a very healthy diet to our house, which is obviously amazing for Maya, but also pretty good for me.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: So good, so good.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned earlier in our conversation that things have quite recently changed for both of you in terms of your living arrangement.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: You no longer um live together, no longer in your co-living environment.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: What do you miss?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: And what are the what do you miss about the co-living environment, if anything, and what is the benefits of living separately?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: Jenna, you go through the talking.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well I think we we ultimately grew out of the house.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So like Maya's bedroom was absolutely tiny, like it really had a cot and a chair, and that was really it, and it had a very low ceiling.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So Maya needed more space.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, because I when I was living in the house with my ex-husband, I was in a master bedroom with a big bathroom and a super king-sized bed.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then when he moved out and Seal moved in, I moved into the guest room, which had a king single.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so I lived for two and a half years as a nearly 40-year-old woman with in a king single bed, and that's not ideal when you're trying to date and you know, or just like even just have some space.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, like certainly for me and Maya, we'd grown out of the space we had in that house, and then Seal was um co-sleeping with Leo in one room, so I I feel like they were ready to have two bedrooms too.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think one thing I'm appreciating about having my own house is that I'm appreciating the space.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've got I've got a king-sized bed again, and um, you know, and I've got an office again, so I don't have to work from the kitchen table.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think probably for me, it's like it's practical things like that that I'm benefiting from.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um plus sometimes it's just nice to know that the house is going to be totally quiet.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think it's sometimes it's nice to know that you're just totally on your own.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as much as I love SEAL, just to know that I've got complete space when I've had a really long day at work is nice.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that's minor, you know, the things I miss are huge.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I love co-living, I'm kind of obsessed with it now, which is um why I'm setting up a charity to create co-living options for other single mums.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I I loved all the sharing of cooking and the sharing of responsibilities and the co-parenting.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, sometimes I'll get a migraine or I'd be sick.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, just to be able to know that well, Seal's got this, like Seal's gonna make dinner, Seal's gonna tidy up, Seal's gonna look after Maya, and I can just be sick, whereas I'm anxious now that I'm on my own.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what if I get sick?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how am I gonna manage looking after Maya?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and having somebody that would collect mayor from daycare when I'm doing long days, just having Sill support, especially I think with the age mayor is at, like it's very lonely living with a baby because there's no one to talk back to you and there's no one to go, wow, like she she just stood up for the first time or whatever it is.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: gonna miss like just the sharing and like just how much fun that was and just the how much still kind of lightened the load for me I think still um um yeah similar to the the space thing because yeah I was although I had the master bedroom which was lovely but um I shared the bed with Leo half the time but still so now he's got his own room so we've I've got a bit more spaciousness and when he comes into my bed it's a bit more of a treat it's nice um I miss um like as I say Jen and I talked a lot like we would download um either at the end of the day or like while she's doing her makeup we would have like a 20 minute conversation in two minutes and we would just like like go through everything logistics what are we gonna have to dinner and how's your emotional experience right now and like what about your relationships doing at the moment and we just blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah so um missing that I guess emotional download or like yeah constant friend always around and and yeah having like Leo uh having a friend for Leo always like yeah now he's like yeah he's either with me or he's doing his own thing or he's watching TV whereas yeah missing that um that different routine of like play pastime story time with with someone else with mayor and do the children miss one another or have they not had time enough to think about that yet yeah maya definitely misses Leo like I think it was an interesting thing because we we moved out we stopped living together and then I went to Bali for two and a half weeks um and then we moved into our new place which is all quite exciting because it's got a swimming pool and Maya loves swimming.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think Maya feels like she's on an extended holiday at the moment so I'm not sure if it's if it's quite um landed on her that she's really not going to be living with Syl and Leo anymore like so she's just a bit young to understand I think because all she's ever known is living with Syl and Leo but she talks about Leo you know a lot and keeps asking when she's gonna have a play like when she's gonna see him and when she's gonna have a play date and yeah she she's definitely missing all of the fun that's for sure.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for Leo Sil.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah he misses her he was saying like when we first moved out but then yeah because Mayor was in Bali I was like oh Mayor's in Bali bud and so then he stopped asking but I because they're coming over on Thursday I told him last night I was like Mayor and Jen are coming over and he was like oh my gosh like yeah so he's he's really buzzed yeah so good yeah my last question for both of you and I'm gonna start with you Sil because Jen I have a feeling about what you're gonna say to this um what do you suggest as a next step for anyone who's considering a co-living arrangement like you both shared together with your children for themselves what what are the you know top tips I suppose Sil top tips um get clear on what you want um and then when you meet a person and you or you see a place like ask you know what's what's their routine like what's their daily routine like what's their lifestyle like you know and yeah I think diet's really important what their general uh activities you know like what's their nighttime look like especially if there's children like yeah what does your nighttime routine look like?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something we're gonna keep together is that something you want to keep separate um and maybe in those initial conversations like what you want to combine and what you don't um again what your preferences are around living and visitors and lifestyle habits I think are really important and just family values as well like lifestyle values and your personal values come up yeah I wondered about values I wondered whether that would come up so thank you I think it's really important to be really aligned about yeah your lifestyle and your family values thank you and what about you jen also did you have something else to share sim yeah like luckily like Jen and I have really similar parenting styles and something she helped me with was boundaries with Leah like sometimes I'd be like tag in can you discipline my child please like um so I think checking in on your on each other's parenting styles and what it looks like when the other one parents your child because that's going to happen you're gonna they're gonna have you know the relationship so um yeah I guess having discussions about that as well would be really important.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah absolutely and that becomes important see some of my clients I'll continue to work with them when they repartner and they're blending families um parenting style and almost overparenting of someone else's children can be a real source of conflict.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's really important to get clear on that.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Jen what would you suggest as top tips and next steps for anyone considering this?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean I honestly think the SILs answered it beautifully so just to add to that I think being really clear around if you do have non-negotiables so that you can say this is something that I'm not flexible on, you know, whatever that might be and then perhaps having a bit of a chat about how you'll communicate if something isn't working and like if you can't agree then what would happen?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think would probably be good.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like certainly for Sylvan I think we just jumped in headfirst and it luckily just did actually just completely work with really like no discussion or planning.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But when I think about what could go wrong or when I hear other stories about women that have co-lived with other single mums I think gosh you know maybe having it up front that you know that if you can't agree that this is a process that you're going to come to to come to a resolution or what will it look like if if it's going to end because it doesn't work for one person early or things like that.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like certainly you know when Sil um was getting ready to move out and I wasn't quite ready yet I was like oh wow what if Sil just stops paying the rent which is like in a way fair enough but in another way I can't afford to pay the rent on my own in that house.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So but then I think like we've just always treated each other the kindest way possible haven't we so paid double rent for six weeks because she was just like you know our tenancy ends on this date so I wouldn't want you to experience anything that would put you under stress.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think probably it'd be great for people to have it up front things like that like what do we do if one of us wants to end the tenancy early um and then the way that we that we found each other was through um a Facebook page called the Single Mothers House Share Register which is through the Council of Single Mothers and their children.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I recommend that like go and check that out there's people posting nearly every day um I keep my eye on it because I'm so obsessed with clo living to see who who's looking and how many responses are they getting.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: So post on there and like Sil said get clear on like you know what your boundaries are what your preferences are what you're looking for what you can afford and and thinking about the environment is really key like making sure the house is actually big enough for two families and that there's some space where everyone can have some private time if they need it and that it's well built so that you're not having to listen to another child crying all the time I think I think the physical environment is also really important.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah thank you and just in closing Jenna particularly did you want to share anything about your next steps in terms of business where you're headed yeah well look I think this experience of me has totally changed my life and like I've always had very strong um like life purpose I suppose like I've always worked in in caring or social work type roles so I very much um feel like my cup's very filled in every way in my life in the in the work that I do.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Currently work for a youth homelessness charity um but I feel like this has given me like my definite life purpose which I believe is to support um ending homelessness and providing more options for for living for single mothers.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of getting sick of hearing women say but where do I go?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't move out of the place with my toxic partner because I've got nowhere to go and I want to create the solution to that.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to create the answer.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm registering a charity called the Lioness Den.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I call Single Mothers Lionesses because we are fiercely brave and totally amazing and very very powerful and I want to try and move away from language that can be a bit stigmatized.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is a lot of stigma to um the label single mum to no foot of single mothers.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm registering a charity and then I'm going to be going through a fundraising round to hopefully purchase an apartment block for single mothers to live together with their own self-contained apartment so they get the benefits of privacy but then shared spaces so they get the benefit of co-living when they want it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's very exciting and I've um got one of Melbourne's um biggest lawyers helping me do the charity registration at the moment that's what I've been spending my morning working on um and I'm hoping within 18 months I'll be opening the doors to my Lioness den.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if anybody wants to back this in in any way if anybody likes to donate to Amazing Projects reach out to me.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Fabulous I cannot wait and I know privately you and I have had a conversation because this has been a joke not joke between me clients friends single single parents for years that how cool would it be to have independent little pods where you can raise your kids but you have that common common spaces you know co-living opt-in opt-out on a needs wants basis you know you've got the best of both worlds you really have got a village raising children and supporting single parents single mums I think it's just such a fabulous idea and I can't wait for you to get this up and running.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: So yes anybody out there listening who would like to get in touch will drop Jenna's contact details in the show notes.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah can't wait for you to get it off the ground Jenna it's going to be fabulous.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Sil is there anything else that you would love to add in as we close out our conversation or do you feel like this is completed?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I feel complete in that thank you so much Sally Anne for the opportunity to speak about it.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: I loved I love our situation and yeah so I love talking about it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for sharing a little window opening a window into your co-living beautiful family.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's been such a great conversation and again if Sil you would like your info, contact info in terms of your work dropped in the show notes we can do that too.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely thank you.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks Jenna thanks Priscilla it's been a fabulous conversation.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks Elliane I'm Sally Anne Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist and you've been listening to Reflect, reclaim and liberate you can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching and if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode please share it with them.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, and liberate.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Until then