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The Tigers are back on the ropes. Can they still recover? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome in to another episode of Tiger Territory, part
0:13
Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network Detroit Tigers Podcast. I am
0:16
Speaker 1: Kieren Steckley with me as always a man who doesn't
0:19
Speaker 1: need a weekend. Let's tell him he's a player. He's
0:23
Speaker 1: golly savinag and how are we doing doing?
0:25
Speaker 2: Good? Players? Weekend? Just a total gimmick. We should probably
0:29
Speaker 2: do it with that, right Otherwise, in terms of the
0:33
Speaker 2: Detroit Tigers, man.
0:34
Speaker 3: What gonna do away with the weekend?
0:37
Speaker 2: That's what we should. I don't think they should disband
0:40
Speaker 2: the franchise. I don't think it's that dire, but they
0:43
Speaker 2: have lost eight of nine. Yeah, the road trip, you're
0:46
Speaker 2: facing the Pirates and then you're facing the Royals. The
0:49
Speaker 2: Royal stink and they took it to you, the Tigers.
0:54
Speaker 2: The offense has really gotten cold, with the exception Sunday
0:58
Speaker 2: higher scoring game. The pitching wasn't there. Kind of everything
1:02
Speaker 2: that has gone wrong, everything that could go wrong, has
1:05
Speaker 2: gone wrong recently, which has kind of been in some
1:07
Speaker 2: ways the theme of this season, except it's also been
1:11
Speaker 2: the most up and down, ridiculous, kind of hard to
1:13
Speaker 2: talk about, hard to analyze season. I can imagine and
1:17
Speaker 2: we've seen the last couple of years some pretty difficult,
1:21
Speaker 2: you know, up and down seasons, But here the Tigers are.
1:24
Speaker 2: They're now three games out of a wild card spot
1:26
Speaker 2: at the time we're recording this, which is kind of
1:29
Speaker 2: crazy to say you can lose eight of nine and
1:31
Speaker 2: I don't know, you're three games out. There's a lot
1:33
Speaker 2: of ball left to play. Now. Their playoff odds have
1:36
Speaker 2: fallen to a season low seven point four percent. That
1:39
Speaker 2: was actually before Sunday's loss. They're gonna be even lower now.
1:42
Speaker 2: It's a reminder the projection system really hates their roster
1:45
Speaker 2: because it's still getting the Mariners like a forty two
1:48
Speaker 2: percent playoff chance. They're like one game, one and a
1:50
Speaker 2: half games maybe ahead of the Tigers. So I don't
1:54
Speaker 2: know a lot going on. I'm sure we're gonna have
1:56
Speaker 2: some more ups and downs in the next month, but
1:58
Speaker 2: it's getting to a point where like what do you do?
2:00
Speaker 2: Throw your hands up right, Like, I don't know if
2:02
Speaker 2: this team has so many self inflicted wounds. This youth movement,
2:06
Speaker 2: which we're gonna talk about more later, has been fun
2:09
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, this isn't really what this year
2:12
Speaker 2: was supposed to be. You were supposed to have a
2:14
Speaker 2: legit good competitive team supplemented in some places, not just
2:19
Speaker 2: with Kevin mcgonag, go about with Max Clark. Maybe some
2:21
Speaker 2: how you Lee or a Ben Maljerry or a Valencia
2:25
Speaker 2: thrown in. Right now, those guys are pretty much your
2:28
Speaker 2: entire lineup, and I would argue that's probably not a
2:30
Speaker 2: great recipe for winning. The absence of Riley Green on
2:33
Speaker 2: the IL has certainly been felt and felt hard. Some
2:36
Speaker 2: other guys have cooled off your pitching staff, Pupen especially,
2:41
Speaker 2: like is it better than it seems? Or maybe it's
2:43
Speaker 2: worse than it seems. Like you watch a game like Sunday,
2:46
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't know, man, if they don't have
2:48
Speaker 2: a starter giving them six or seven innings, what do
2:52
Speaker 2: they got? It's hard to feel confident in the Tigers
2:54
Speaker 2: on way too many nights, even though still this season
2:58
Speaker 2: is not all the way over.
3:02
Speaker 3: Yeah.
3:02
Speaker 1: So my my thought watching Sunday's game, which, as you
3:07
Speaker 1: guys know, was an eleven to seven loss, I was like,
3:11
Speaker 1: this is actually what the term pitching chaos was meant
3:15
Speaker 1: to be.
3:16
Speaker 3: If you just like, if you.
3:17
Speaker 1: Just said, what actually is pitching chaos? It's kind of
3:20
Speaker 1: what we witness today, you know, like Wagasback, who again
3:24
Speaker 1: we've given him credit for what he's done, but he
3:27
Speaker 1: had the you know, he gave up the home run
3:28
Speaker 1: against Pittsburgh, and then you know, couldn't you know, couldn't
3:32
Speaker 1: do anything in the second ending on Sunday, and you know,
3:35
Speaker 1: you bring in Ty Madden just trying to kind of
3:37
Speaker 1: extend until the sears moment.
3:39
Speaker 3: Of course, we'll talk about that as well.
3:43
Speaker 1: And and and you have the bad luck bloop followed
3:46
Speaker 1: by just a collapse in in pitching really and and
3:50
Speaker 1: and you're and you're behind this your four runs behind
3:53
Speaker 1: at a time when you you can't really feel confident
3:56
Speaker 1: in your offense. And it feels like ever ever since
3:59
Speaker 1: then ever, and it's any point in the season the
4:02
Speaker 1: Tigers have trying to claw their way and get back
4:05
Speaker 1: into a position to be successful, only for it to
4:09
Speaker 1: slip away rather instantly. You said to eight of nine,
4:12
Speaker 1: that's true, But the next sentence is eight of nine.
4:16
Speaker 1: Since they were one game below five the.
4:18
Speaker 2: Game one game below five hundred, they controlled a playoff spot.
4:21
Speaker 2: They actually crawled their way back and briefly had a
4:24
Speaker 2: playoff spot. And then they lost save nine, and I
4:30
Speaker 2: don't know whether to laugh or cry.
4:33
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing, this, this is an obvious statement,
4:37
Speaker 1: but what we're watching right now is not the twenty
4:42
Speaker 1: twenty six Tigers by design. Like I think that is
4:46
Speaker 1: something that can be safely said. And it's not an excuse.
4:49
Speaker 1: It's just literally what we're watching. I mean, just look
4:52
Speaker 1: at Sundays. Just look at Sunday's lineup. You know, Valencia
4:55
Speaker 1: in their Maljerry in there, and you know Max Clark
5:00
Speaker 1: and Kevin McGonagall, and you go down the line and
5:03
Speaker 1: you're like manber callahan, Like you go down the line,
5:06
Speaker 1: You're like this, this would have been what you rea, like,
5:11
Speaker 1: take it back to spring training at a certain point,
5:13
Speaker 1: you would expected that to be like a May sixth
5:17
Speaker 1: to lead a line up, you know what I mean,
5:20
Speaker 1: Like and we're over and this is and these are
5:22
Speaker 1: the guys in the major leagues on the road against
5:24
Speaker 1: you know, yes, the Royals are not very good, but
5:26
Speaker 1: give them credit.
5:27
Speaker 3: They have been hot recently. Uh, And this is this is,
5:31
Speaker 3: this is the.
5:31
Speaker 1: Guys that are being entrusted, relied on to try to
5:35
Speaker 1: claw your way back into a playoff position. It's just
5:39
Speaker 1: like the the the The thing that kind of went
5:42
Speaker 1: through my head was are we witnessing underachievement or are
5:48
Speaker 1: we witnessing what is reasonably expected given the roster that's
5:53
Speaker 1: being put out the lineup that's being put out there
5:55
Speaker 1: on a daily basis. And I mean that in sort
5:57
Speaker 1: of like in a vacuum sense, not in an overall
6:00
Speaker 1: like season and the way that, like the roster was constructed,
6:03
Speaker 1: and like, obviously that's a different discussion, but like, just
6:06
Speaker 1: in terms of what is on the field in between
6:09
Speaker 1: the lines that these past you know, week plus, it
6:12
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like underachievement. It feels like something that could
6:15
Speaker 1: be reasonably expected given the options that are available.
6:20
Speaker 2: Well, and that's interesting too. Well, yeah, and that's interesting
6:23
Speaker 2: too because it's like, well, who would you like, can
6:26
Speaker 2: we still blame injuries the Rightley Green injuries hurting them?
6:29
Speaker 3: Right?
6:29
Speaker 2: They don't have that legit all star hitter in the
6:32
Speaker 2: middle of their order, and Dan Dingler has been an
6:35
Speaker 2: all star hitter who has gone just ice cold. Obviously
6:39
Speaker 2: the plate hasn't been as good. Behind the plate hasn't
6:42
Speaker 2: been as good challenging pitches. I don't know if that's
6:45
Speaker 2: just mental. I still think the guy's just played a
6:48
Speaker 2: lot of baseball, not just this year but last year,
6:50
Speaker 2: and maybe it's just all kind of catching up to them.
6:54
Speaker 2: So you're without that, You like you're without Carry Carpenter,
6:57
Speaker 2: who at his best is really a game changing press
7:00
Speaker 2: since but when karp has been on the field this year,
7:02
Speaker 2: he hasn't really been kart But there's still some home
7:05
Speaker 2: run power, but sub three hundred one base percentage, all
7:08
Speaker 2: those things you're without. I don't know. Matt Vierling, who
7:12
Speaker 2: again went on the field has not been good near
7:16
Speaker 2: without what who else? Parker Meadows, I don't know when
7:19
Speaker 2: when cell Like so, so those are guys you started
7:22
Speaker 2: listing all those names like, I don't know. That's at
7:24
Speaker 2: least like major league quality, major league depth. Those are
7:27
Speaker 2: also a lot of the players who had really underperformed
7:30
Speaker 2: and contributed to the reason that Tigers are at this
7:32
Speaker 2: point and part of the reason they're playing kids. Some
7:35
Speaker 2: of these kids have come up and played well, and
7:37
Speaker 2: they deserve credit. We've given them a lot of credit
7:39
Speaker 2: for that. But you're right here now. You look at it,
7:41
Speaker 2: it's like, why do the projection systems hate this roster?
7:44
Speaker 2: I don't know, Because you're starting Brett Callahan. It's no
7:47
Speaker 2: offense to Brett Kalahan. Jo Corey jokes like Bret Callahan's
7:51
Speaker 2: had a great year, earned this opportunity, proved he could
7:54
Speaker 2: hang a little bit early on, like is he really
7:57
Speaker 2: who you want playing and playing in a pennant right
8:00
Speaker 2: or a playoff race, because that's where you're in right now,
8:03
Speaker 2: and it does feel like, you know what, I'm not
8:05
Speaker 2: even gonna say they're overmatched or in above their head
8:08
Speaker 2: because the rest of the American League is terrible. They're
8:10
Speaker 2: playing some other teams who aren't very good, So I
8:12
Speaker 2: don't know what to make of it, but yeah, is
8:15
Speaker 2: it under achievement. I'm not sure that's the word anymore
8:17
Speaker 2: at the end of the year. You know, how much
8:20
Speaker 2: are injuries really to blame? I think is one of
8:22
Speaker 2: the more interesting philosophical questions. Obviously they are to the blame.
8:26
Speaker 2: They contribute greatly to what happened in May. They're contributing
8:29
Speaker 2: to what happened now. You also have to plan for injuries.
8:31
Speaker 2: Every team deals with injuries. Tigers have been one of
8:34
Speaker 2: the more injured teams in the league. But I don't
8:36
Speaker 2: love it as being like the full Oh well, you
8:40
Speaker 2: know whatever, twenty twenty six, that was just a tough
8:43
Speaker 2: year because guys got injured. That does feel like underselling it,
8:46
Speaker 2: because overall this team is still massively underachieved and to
8:50
Speaker 2: the point you're now entering September with this as your.
8:54
Speaker 1: Roster, right, Yeah, So to try to, like, you know, summarize,
8:58
Speaker 1: it's like, this is obviously an underachievement, but like, what
9:02
Speaker 1: with these rosters that are being put together? I don't
9:05
Speaker 1: know if I could say, like, these guys right now
9:07
Speaker 1: are underachieving because there's been so much to get to
9:10
Speaker 1: this point and and I think the perfect perfect way
9:13
Speaker 1: to summarize this is, look, dude, it's twenty twenty six.
9:18
Speaker 1: You got swept by the Royals in a series in
9:22
Speaker 1: which Craig Kimball had a save and salvad there Perez had.
9:30
Speaker 3: A stolen base base.
9:32
Speaker 1: So so like, like I I can't even say what
9:35
Speaker 1: year is it for those because Sally has like what
9:38
Speaker 1: seven in his career, Like you.
9:40
Speaker 3: Just you just can't.
9:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just not winning formula to have that happen
9:45
Speaker 1: to you, or allow that to happen to you, I
9:47
Speaker 1: should say, And that is the only way I will
9:51
Speaker 1: always remember this series.
9:52
Speaker 3: It was like Kimball really, you know what I mean?
9:56
Speaker 1: And Perez really this old base, like like this is
9:59
Speaker 1: the this is what we're doing right now.
10:01
Speaker 2: You know what I mean that in the back of
10:02
Speaker 2: your minds, like next spring training when we're all way
10:05
Speaker 2: we're way over analyzing how some guy did and like
10:08
Speaker 2: his third start and what it's going to mean. Remember
10:12
Speaker 2: that the Tigers in September played a game where their
10:14
Speaker 2: starting pitcher was Jacob Waggispak, Craig Kimberl at a million
10:19
Speaker 2: years old, got a save, and Salvador repair As at
10:22
Speaker 2: two million years old, stole a base Like couldn't have
10:27
Speaker 2: predicted any of that one opening day.
10:29
Speaker 3: Beautiful game.
10:31
Speaker 1: All right, we are going to take a break and
10:33
Speaker 1: then afterward we'll get to Uh Andrew Sears who makes
10:36
Speaker 1: his major league debut and uh it was worth the watch.
10:39
Speaker 3: I'll say that.
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11:45
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, something that's become a theme
11:50
Speaker 1: of this season. For the seventh or eighth I read
11:53
Speaker 1: two different things, so whicheveryone is correct? Is the one
11:55
Speaker 1: that I'm saying right now, major league debut for a
11:59
Speaker 1: Tiger year, and this time it came in the form
12:02
Speaker 1: of lefty Andrew Sears, and uh, you know, he was
12:06
Speaker 1: the bulk guy and in this in this bullpen day,
12:10
Speaker 1: he went four innings, he gave up five earned, three k's,
12:13
Speaker 1: and a walk. My initial impressions Cody is that I'm
12:20
Speaker 1: not sure this guy actually is aware that there's a
12:25
Speaker 1: batter in the batter's box when he's pitching. And I
12:27
Speaker 1: actually do mean that in like a in a in
12:30
Speaker 1: a more positive way where he just seems like so
12:32
Speaker 1: narrowly focused that he's just like boom boom boom, and
12:36
Speaker 1: he that's not actually much of an exaggeration. He works
12:39
Speaker 1: very very fast, uh and has like some intense tendencies.
12:44
Speaker 1: I think is a is a good way to put it.
12:47
Speaker 1: His first career strikeout, I believe, was against Bobby Wood Junior.
12:49
Speaker 1: So that's that's pretty damn cool. Obviously, I see why
12:53
Speaker 1: the Tigers like him. Obviously the line is not going
12:56
Speaker 1: to be one that will be bragging about in ten years,
13:00
Speaker 1: but I do see the skill set. I do see
13:02
Speaker 1: why the Tigers have been high on him and decided
13:04
Speaker 1: to kind of take a chance on some upside here
13:07
Speaker 1: and call him up.
13:09
Speaker 5: Yeah.
13:10
Speaker 2: Credit to Andrew Sears for making his debut. This is
13:12
Speaker 2: the guy who's a tenth round pick in twenty twenty three, which,
13:15
Speaker 2: by the way, pretty nice draft for the Tigers. University
13:18
Speaker 2: of Connecticut, Rhode Island. Doesn't seem like an accident. The
13:21
Speaker 2: Tigers have had a lot of success drafting guys from
13:25
Speaker 2: kind of the Northeast. Maybe some hidden value they have
13:28
Speaker 2: found there. Sears has certainly been hidden value out of
13:31
Speaker 2: the tenth round. Really pitched well in the minors the
13:34
Speaker 2: last couple of years. Someone, you know, the guys at
13:36
Speaker 2: Tiger Tigers Minor League Report and others were pretty high
13:39
Speaker 2: on entering this season. Became clear to me when the
13:43
Speaker 2: Tigers bumped Sears to Toledo, had him, used an opener
13:48
Speaker 2: for him, came out, pitched really well, ten point eight
13:53
Speaker 2: k's per nine, like all these things that he was
13:59
Speaker 2: going to be on the on the track to making
14:01
Speaker 2: the major league roster. I didn't think it was crazy
14:04
Speaker 2: that he could pitch. I thought it's somewhat dependent on
14:06
Speaker 2: what the Tigers needed. Well, here he is. You got
14:09
Speaker 2: all of two games in Triple a and you're here
14:12
Speaker 2: in the big leagues, which maybe is a little soon
14:16
Speaker 2: because the debut didn't go all that well. Got hit
14:19
Speaker 2: around a little bit. Not sure he located incredibly well,
14:23
Speaker 2: but he did. You know, you can see some things
14:25
Speaker 2: to like, pretty good power, fastball, really good slider, got
14:29
Speaker 2: seven whiffs on it, even in what ends up being
14:31
Speaker 2: a rough major league debut. I think, projecting forward, it
14:36
Speaker 2: will be really interesting to see is Sears like a
14:38
Speaker 2: starter type or is you know, he gets a lot
14:41
Speaker 2: of Brent Herder comparisons, and there was a time where
14:44
Speaker 2: that was the question with Herder. In a different world,
14:46
Speaker 2: Herder maybe could have been or stayed a starter, but
14:50
Speaker 2: he was just so dang good as a lefty reliever
14:52
Speaker 2: who could give you some length that ended up being
14:55
Speaker 2: kind of a natural role. That's probably the best projection
14:58
Speaker 2: for Sears. That could be a little more in though
15:01
Speaker 2: this is a guy like who I think will go
15:02
Speaker 2: on to have much better outings than he did Sunday.
15:06
Speaker 2: Obviously Sunday, though, hey, you struck out Bobby Wood Junior.
15:09
Speaker 2: He also got hit around a little bit. That's uh,
15:11
Speaker 2: welcome to the big leagues, right.
15:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's.
15:17
Speaker 1: The big league hitters tend not to miss pitches over
15:20
Speaker 1: the middle of the plate. You know, there's a lot
15:23
Speaker 1: of levels you can get away with that a little
15:25
Speaker 1: bit more. And and that was I think, like a
15:28
Speaker 1: pretty clear uh I want to say rude awakening, but
15:31
Speaker 1: it's like, yep, that's that makes sense why that ball
15:33
Speaker 1: got cloppered right there, because it's a change up that
15:35
Speaker 1: just didn't change over the middle of the plate. That's candy,
15:39
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So again, hard lessons, but
15:43
Speaker 1: it's a hell of an accomplishment. I was thinking. I
15:46
Speaker 1: was like, man, you know, was he like this at
15:50
Speaker 1: Rhode Island College? Because I would just love to have
15:53
Speaker 1: seen someone like that sort of intense pitching at Division
15:57
Speaker 1: III level.
15:58
Speaker 3: I mean that again in a good way. They're probably
16:00
Speaker 3: people like, what is this guy's deal? You know?
16:03
Speaker 1: So he obviously has the potential to be a fun
16:06
Speaker 1: watch and we'll see how he does moving forward. But
16:10
Speaker 1: you know, seven eight, whatever it is that you could
16:14
Speaker 1: have told me seventeen or eighteen, and I would have
16:17
Speaker 1: believed you.
16:17
Speaker 3: In terms of Major League debuts.
16:19
Speaker 1: For the Attackers this year, just given sort of like
16:21
Speaker 1: the roster churn in general that they've done and you know.
16:25
Speaker 2: Well real quick here and there was a point in
16:28
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was May somewhere around those times.
16:31
Speaker 2: I think that when how you got called up, it
16:33
Speaker 2: was like, oh wow, other than McGonagall, you know, we
16:36
Speaker 2: haven't been covering that many debuts, haven't been doing the
16:39
Speaker 2: like oh feel good. This guy got called up, made
16:41
Speaker 2: his debut story, and that was kind of a sign
16:45
Speaker 2: of the way this team was constructed bill to win.
16:48
Speaker 2: Now had some guys with some experience or core had
16:50
Speaker 2: grown up a little bit, and now here we are
16:52
Speaker 2: at the end of the season and someone knew his
16:55
Speaker 2: debuting you know, once a week and that's how it goes.
16:58
Speaker 2: But it's also kind of telling. Why did they bring
17:00
Speaker 2: him up after only two games in Triple A? Well,
17:04
Speaker 2: they push cater Montero back to get him a little
17:06
Speaker 2: extra rest. Sounds like he was just experiencing fatigue or
17:11
Speaker 2: didn't recover well after his latest start, whatever that means.
17:14
Speaker 2: The Tigers have a lot of different ways to monitor that,
17:17
Speaker 2: and there's data and there's science that goes into it.
17:19
Speaker 2: Seems like just precautionary, try to make him, get him
17:23
Speaker 2: recovered and be responsible. So they needed some length and
17:27
Speaker 2: they wanted the power arm. They need some guys who
17:29
Speaker 2: can miss bats. They don't have a lot of options.
17:32
Speaker 2: They called up Sears. I would argue, like, yeah, someone
17:35
Speaker 2: out of desperation. That's not like two discredit seers who
17:39
Speaker 2: has pitched really well and a lot of ways earned this.
17:41
Speaker 2: But you're at a point now where you're calling up
17:43
Speaker 2: dudes after two games in triple A because you just
17:46
Speaker 2: want to feel like you're bringing up capable arms who
17:49
Speaker 2: have some upside. And so that's why he was there.
17:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, And again like you know, that element of his
17:57
Speaker 1: game apparent early on. So obviously with all these guys
18:02
Speaker 1: gonna have to hone in on on it a little
18:03
Speaker 1: bit more. And as part of the move, I guess
18:06
Speaker 1: we should just kind of tidy up the business end
18:09
Speaker 1: of it. And Manual DeJesus option to Toledo and James Outman,
18:16
Speaker 1: I guess activated from I L a concussion I L
18:20
Speaker 1: and then designated for assignment. So it seems like, you know,
18:24
Speaker 1: Outman was you know, he's a defensive replacement late you know,
18:27
Speaker 1: hadn't been getting a whole lot of playing time. The
18:30
Speaker 1: young guys kind of snatched that playing time from him. Uh,
18:34
Speaker 1: and then DeJesus, you know, switch out lefties lefty with options.
18:39
Speaker 2: Is that kind of feel, Yeah, for sure, seems honestly
18:43
Speaker 2: pretty straightforward. Unfortunate that outman was still on the concussion
18:47
Speaker 2: list at the time he was DF eight. I mean,
18:49
Speaker 2: I think all signs are fine and he's he's doing well,
18:53
Speaker 2: a guy who really kind of helped stabilize the Tigers
18:55
Speaker 2: defensively when they first brought him aboard. But the bat
18:58
Speaker 2: was what we thought. It was only hit one eighty
19:00
Speaker 2: three in his time with the Tigers, and really from
19:03
Speaker 2: the moment they called it Max Clark, you knew he
19:06
Speaker 2: was on borrowed time, but kind of filled the role,
19:09
Speaker 2: served a little bit of a purpose as this team
19:11
Speaker 2: was getting back on track in what late June and
19:15
Speaker 2: throughout July and then DeJesus. Yeah, I mean, look, they
19:19
Speaker 2: wanted a fresh arm, a fresh lefty arm, some length
19:22
Speaker 2: and sears. The unfortunate part is Dejesius gets caught in
19:25
Speaker 2: the option cycle and unless he's replacing an injured player,
19:28
Speaker 2: he can't bring him back for fifteen days. That's kind
19:32
Speaker 2: of the unfortunate reality sometimes, but Tojesius has been, if
19:36
Speaker 2: not remarkable, but perfectly capable. He's filled a lot of
19:39
Speaker 2: innings for the Tigers this year. We'll see if we
19:43
Speaker 2: see him again before season's end. I think we probably will,
19:45
Speaker 2: But again, a little bit unfortunate that you have to
19:49
Speaker 2: wait a while, because this is a guy who, you know,
19:51
Speaker 2: especially if there's a blowout loss near bullpen, his tax
19:55
Speaker 2: or something, you know, he can help and he can
19:57
Speaker 2: also provide length.
20:00
Speaker 1: I'll say this, James Outman, you know, seemed like a
20:03
Speaker 1: consummate professional, probably the loudest uh one three hitter that
20:09
Speaker 1: I've seen, at least in our time doing this podcast,
20:11
Speaker 1: because he had like what two or three three run bombs,
20:15
Speaker 1: you know, so you know, he served the purpose and
20:18
Speaker 1: like I said, it was a consmant professional. But it
20:20
Speaker 1: was time to you know, kind of make room for
20:23
Speaker 1: for some of the young kids. All right, speaking of length, Cody,
20:27
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I am excited to see Tarek
20:30
Speaker 1: schoog Wle pitch one hundred and plus one hundred plus
20:33
Speaker 1: pitches at America Park this week, which is why I
20:41
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21:38
Speaker 3: Thank you, Seek. All right, Well, yeah, so the Tigers.
21:45
Speaker 1: It's a formidable week, Cody, because you got three games
21:48
Speaker 1: with the Rays and then three games with the Dodgers.
21:51
Speaker 3: And what you're doing is you're relying on a lot
21:54
Speaker 3: of pups. And uh. Now I was doing a little exercise.
21:58
Speaker 1: I was looking up, like, all right, obviously, a young
22:03
Speaker 1: Tiger is called a cup, but you know there's a
22:05
Speaker 1: baseball team in Chicago called the Cup, So we can't
22:08
Speaker 1: call these guys cups like they just would be too confusing.
22:11
Speaker 1: So is there any other name, uh that you can
22:14
Speaker 1: call like a young a young tiger?
22:17
Speaker 3: And there is, and it's called it's a whelp W
22:22
Speaker 3: H E L P and uh Man.
22:25
Speaker 1: When I found that out, I was like, damn, this
22:28
Speaker 1: is pretty fitting, because well, yeah, this is the kind
22:31
Speaker 1: of the lineup that you're putting out there right now
22:33
Speaker 1: with a lot of these young cats. And uh and
22:36
Speaker 1: and kind of you talk about riding the roller coaster,
22:39
Speaker 1: trying to ride the roller coaster with these many young
22:41
Speaker 1: guys and trying to formulate like a like a well
22:44
Speaker 1: reasoned opinion about what they are, what they could be,
22:48
Speaker 1: and just kind of accepting that you're probably gonna be
22:50
Speaker 1: wrong before you kind of.
22:51
Speaker 3: Get it right, you know, with a lot of these guys.
22:54
Speaker 1: And so, uh, I thought it might be a fun
22:57
Speaker 1: little exercise Cody to kind of go through a little
23:01
Speaker 1: loose kind of ranking of the welp tigs because because
23:07
Speaker 1: it's it's a I don't want to say hard. It's
23:10
Speaker 1: not a hard exercise, but it is a more thought
23:13
Speaker 1: provoking exercise than than you would than you would think.
23:17
Speaker 1: And I will say this, I'm not just going strictly
23:20
Speaker 1: on rookies, So like if you're if you're still a
23:24
Speaker 1: pup in my mind, you are a welp for the
23:26
Speaker 1: purposes of this discussion. So number one, I think it's
23:30
Speaker 1: pretty obvious Kevin McGonagall, who I think we all forget
23:35
Speaker 1: number one, he is a rookie because you just don't
23:39
Speaker 1: think of him that way because he's been so great.
23:41
Speaker 1: And number two, I think we probably don't talk enough
23:44
Speaker 1: about the fact that he's skiped triple A. I think
23:47
Speaker 1: that should be like kind of probably brought up a
23:49
Speaker 1: little bit more on a on a McGonagall discussion, something
23:52
Speaker 1: we take for granted. So that's that's number one on
23:54
Speaker 1: my list. Mike Abit crazy to put how you lee
24:00
Speaker 1: number two?
24:02
Speaker 3: Can I can? I? Can I throw how You lee?
24:04
Speaker 3: Number two? At you? How does that taste?
24:08
Speaker 1: Because if you want to talk about somebody who is
24:11
Speaker 1: playing like he belongs and not overwhelmed and you know
24:15
Speaker 1: all this stuff, like you Lee had himself a hell
24:17
Speaker 1: of a weekend, and it just seems like every time
24:21
Speaker 1: you look, he's doing something productive. And then you know
24:25
Speaker 1: there's a defensive versatility element to his game that will
24:28
Speaker 1: certainly play a part of future roster construction.
24:32
Speaker 3: Uh. But I I.
24:34
Speaker 1: Looked at it and I was like, I don't think
24:37
Speaker 1: I ever would have thought to put him number two
24:39
Speaker 1: on basically any list uh this year, but he certainly
24:42
Speaker 1: earned it with with his play and and the way
24:45
Speaker 1: he goes about and does his business. How we how
24:50
Speaker 1: we feel about Drew Summers being number three here? So
24:55
Speaker 1: and this this is kind of like a like a
24:58
Speaker 1: riding the ascension wave and just see it like sort
25:02
Speaker 1: of like banking that this might be his like closer
25:07
Speaker 1: to who he is than just some sort of like
25:09
Speaker 1: good stretch, if that makes sense.
25:12
Speaker 3: So I could I egg on my face with that,
25:14
Speaker 3: But as.
25:15
Speaker 1: Someone who's been admittedly like a Summer's doubter, is like
25:20
Speaker 1: really like but yeah, really, it's kind of like the
25:25
Speaker 1: point that I've gotten to with him.
25:30
Speaker 3: He's cooled off.
25:32
Speaker 1: But Eduardo Valencia Valencia before that bunt hit on Sunday,
25:38
Speaker 1: he was oh for his last fourteen. But he is
25:42
Speaker 1: a catcher, obviously, and you know, if he can develop
25:45
Speaker 1: behind the plate a little bit more and and continue
25:48
Speaker 1: to have like, you know, the bat profile that he holds, like,
25:52
Speaker 1: he's going to be a very valuable player. But I
25:56
Speaker 1: have to respect what he's done to this point, and
25:59
Speaker 1: so that's why he is there at number four.
26:04
Speaker 3: Number five.
26:07
Speaker 2: Max Clark, he got Max Clark's got to be on
26:10
Speaker 2: this list.
26:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's five.
26:12
Speaker 1: Like, is it fair to put him behind like the
26:16
Speaker 1: Leaves and the Summers and the Valencias you're using, sure,
26:21
Speaker 1: because I you know, obviously upside is higher than everybody
26:27
Speaker 1: but McGonagall on this list, although maybe even higher than
26:30
Speaker 1: McGonagall if you just go by their draft profiles, and
26:36
Speaker 1: hasn't done anything spectacular, but has certainly shored up in
26:40
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. The outfield defense end finally had
26:43
Speaker 1: a stolen base today, although it was the backside of
26:45
Speaker 1: double steel, but but finally his first career stolen base,
26:50
Speaker 1: something that I would like to see more of. I
26:53
Speaker 1: would like to see him be in motion a lot more,
26:56
Speaker 1: because again, that's got to be part of his skill
26:58
Speaker 1: set or to like maximize his profile. So I got
27:01
Speaker 1: him number five on this list.
27:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, regarding the Max Clark steels thing, I've kind of heard,
27:09
Speaker 2: there's a little bit like remember Matt Vieling's first couple
27:11
Speaker 2: of years back when Matt Vieling was fast, tremendously fast,
27:15
Speaker 2: but like could not steal bases. Like, there's a little
27:18
Speaker 2: bit of that with Max. I think it's some timing,
27:20
Speaker 2: some instincts things that they're they're still working on with him.
27:24
Speaker 2: So just because he's fast doesn't mean he's a lock
27:26
Speaker 2: to steal forty bases in the big leagues. No one's
27:29
Speaker 2: probably ever gonna steal forty bases on the Tigers. But
27:31
Speaker 2: even like, it's not just they're holding him out of principle.
27:35
Speaker 2: They think he needs to improve a little bit as
27:37
Speaker 2: a stolen base base runner. My power minkings, my WELP
27:42
Speaker 2: power rankings. I'm just gonna go with players who make
27:44
Speaker 2: me say welp, because I just don't know what to
27:47
Speaker 2: Number one. Spencer Torkelson been talking a little more positively
27:51
Speaker 2: about Towerk lately, right, and then our boyds to Work
27:55
Speaker 2: is now on a one four to twenty five spell
27:59
Speaker 2: just dry up, and now you're like, all right, when
28:02
Speaker 2: you're not hitting for average, you do want that power
28:04
Speaker 2: to start showing up. And then I start contradicting myself
28:08
Speaker 2: with things I've said the last couple of weeks. So
28:10
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've not known how to talk about
28:12
Speaker 2: Spencer Torklesen all year, or arguably for the bulk of
28:16
Speaker 2: his career. It's it's just strange. I don't know what
28:20
Speaker 2: to do other than say, well, that's dork. Number two
28:25
Speaker 2: might might Actually you know what number two is here,
28:29
Speaker 2: and the Tiger's playoff odds are going down. You know
28:31
Speaker 2: what's going up, the odds of seeing Justin Verlander throw
28:36
Speaker 2: like one batter or one inning. The Tigers have some
28:40
Speaker 2: games that don't count, because otherwise you may notice it's
28:44
Speaker 2: been really quiet on the Verlander front. I don't know
28:47
Speaker 2: what's going on. I don't since any imminent return to pitching,
28:51
Speaker 2: and it's almost September. Seems like maybe they're holding out
28:55
Speaker 2: for the chance of getting them getting them on the
28:58
Speaker 2: mound for just some vibes with which I think will
29:00
Speaker 2: take a game that has no stakes. So either you've
29:02
Speaker 2: already clinched the playoffs or you're out of it. Not
29:06
Speaker 2: a great situation, but it is what it is. Well, well,
29:11
Speaker 2: three the whole bullpen, right, Kinley Janssen has a couple
29:16
Speaker 2: of good outings, gives up two bombs Kyle Finnigan, I
29:19
Speaker 2: think you're seeing some encouraging signs and then yeah, well
29:23
Speaker 2: like not not really the bullpen. Do they have reinforcements?
29:27
Speaker 2: So maybe they have Andrew Sears, Well, that didn't that
29:29
Speaker 2: didn't go so well. Like this, I don't know what's say.
29:33
Speaker 2: It's not a very good bullpen. I don't I don't
29:36
Speaker 2: care that much about what the era is. That's that's
29:38
Speaker 2: just where we're at. And you could throw in some
29:42
Speaker 2: you know, like Parker Meadows, like they haven't ruled him
29:44
Speaker 2: out for the season, but it's late August and he's
29:48
Speaker 2: not playing in games or doing anything and it's unfortunate,
29:51
Speaker 2: right if he's not able to get back on the field,
29:53
Speaker 2: and then what does that mean for his future? And like,
29:56
Speaker 2: not even trying to be funny, that just sucks. But
29:59
Speaker 2: it's like, well, that's that's where we're at with Parker Meadows,
30:03
Speaker 2: and it's possible we could be seeing Matt Vierling or
30:06
Speaker 2: carry Carpenter get thrown into similar discussions if they're not
30:10
Speaker 2: able to get up and doing a little bit more
30:12
Speaker 2: here in the near future. Sounds like they're still thinking
30:15
Speaker 2: Jack Flaherty will pitch again by the end of the year,
30:18
Speaker 2: but you know, will he or if the games don't
30:22
Speaker 2: count as it because they're out of it, is it
30:25
Speaker 2: worth trying to like kind of force him back? Who knows?
30:29
Speaker 2: And even the Montero thing, let's keep an eye on
30:31
Speaker 2: it sounds like it's just being done out of like precaution,
30:35
Speaker 2: being responsible. But Cater's been huge for this team. Man,
30:39
Speaker 2: not really someone you want to see not able to pitch,
30:42
Speaker 2: even if it's just skipping a start out of rest.
30:45
Speaker 2: So here we are, you know, still more than a
30:47
Speaker 2: month left to play, but they've lost eight of nine.
30:53
Speaker 2: Wealth is fitting in a lot of ways.
30:57
Speaker 3: The WELP Tigs. I think that might be. I spent
31:00
Speaker 3: a lot of time, a lot of a lot of
31:02
Speaker 3: ram up here trying to figure out how.
31:05
Speaker 1: To uh, how to classify you know this, the Blank tigs,
31:10
Speaker 1: and I think the Wealth Tigs might be take the cake.
31:13
Speaker 1: I don't know if the T shirt is gonna sell
31:15
Speaker 1: very much Uh, but but I think, but I think
31:20
Speaker 1: it's I think it's fitting. And again it has the
31:23
Speaker 1: has a dual meeting there. So, Uh, I don't know.
31:28
Speaker 1: This season has been so wacky in so many ways.
31:31
Speaker 1: We were talking before we started, like, there's not anything
31:35
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't put past happening at k America Park
31:38
Speaker 1: this week, Cody, right, anything like we we keep in
31:42
Speaker 1: mind this run that you know, it was kind of
31:46
Speaker 1: been diminished a little bit by losing eight of nine.
31:48
Speaker 3: This run really started with a sweep.
31:50
Speaker 1: In Tampa Bay of the race and so and so
31:55
Speaker 1: the Rays coming to town, could it be another like
32:00
Speaker 1: launchpad or could it be like.
32:02
Speaker 3: Essentially closing the circle.
32:04
Speaker 1: Now, well, we will see, and then you throw in
32:05
Speaker 1: the elements of school boll.
32:07
Speaker 3: It will be he's.
32:08
Speaker 2: Either going to throw one hundred and twenty seven pitch
32:10
Speaker 2: no hitter or as you said, like Ben mal Jerry's
32:13
Speaker 2: gonna take him deep twice.
32:14
Speaker 3: Like it's it's a range of outcomes that I'm ready
32:20
Speaker 3: to watch. And uh.
32:21
Speaker 1: And of course we will be recapping the Race series
32:25
Speaker 1: and previewing the Dodgers series later this week. You guys
32:28
Speaker 1: can follow us on ex firmly known as Twitter at
32:30
Speaker 1: Cody Stavenhagen. I am at Heeran Unerscore Stcley pot Page
32:33
Speaker 1: at Tiger Territory, Underscore, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, you guys know.
32:37
Speaker 3: What to do.
32:37
Speaker 1: We appreciate all of you so for Cody Stavenhagen, I'm
32:40
Speaker 1: Kierri Steckley.
32:41
Speaker 3: Everybody have great deck,