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A Conscious Conversation About Diversity and Inclusion with Phyllis Reid-Jarvis · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Everyone.
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It's Roxanne Derhodge with Authentic Living with Roxanne.
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Thanks for tuning in again today.
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Today, I have Phyllis Reed Jarvis with me today.
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Phyllis, how are you doing?
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I'm absolutely terrific.
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And I do mean that because, you know, with the COVID time, everyone is like, I'm fine.
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Yeah.
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No.
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But I I'm doing really great, and I'm excited to be here with you on, on your show.
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Yeah.
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Awesome.
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Well, thanks so much for taking the time.
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So I'll tell you a little bit about, Phyllis and our my paths have crossed before we've, you
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know, explored some opportunities to work together.
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And now we've we've realigned again.
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So she's the CEO of ultimate potential to organizational development business and
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consultancy, and their expertise is psychometric testing, customized leadership
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training, and development along with executive and strategic coaching.
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Field center team help organizations to achieve their goals.
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Phyllis, you and I, you know, offline talked a little bit about, you know, I know initially
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when we had talked way back, there was some potential for some diversity and and inclusion
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trading that we were chitchatting about, but getting involved with.
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And this was prior to all of the things that kind of erupted in 2020.
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You know, which, of course, that I think at that point, the world kinda, had to yet again,
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I'm gonna say, not not not not listen, but yet again, had to stop and really look at what was
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been happening.
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So now you've been doing this work for a very time.
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So tell us a little bit about you and kinda what, you know, you're here doing this this
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fantastic work, but what got you involved in this kind of work and and, you know, is it a
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passion, or is it something that kind of came upon you as you went?
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I love the question.
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Again, thank you for having me on on on the show.
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Very, very excited and, thankful.
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So, you know, this is a it's a little bit of a journey as to how I I arrived at where I am,
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and I'm a an eternal student Roxanne.
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So let's just put that out there.
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This is my 3rd career calling.
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And, I've always been in business, though.
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So I've always owned a a company of some sort and always kind of just working my edge and
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contributing to society from that angle.
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So in another life, I worked for the better part of 20 years as a registered dietitian in
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my own private practice.
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So I have a health and wellness background.
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And I did that.
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And, for the most part, it was an amazing career.
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I I got to do so many incredible things just to affect people's lives and impact people lives,
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and I was told in very positive ways.
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So I felt really, really good about that.
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But then you you kinda come to a point in your life I did where I felt there's a calling for
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me to do something So to take the better part of those 20 years of working as a private
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practice dietitian and working with clients and families and corporations because we used to do
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a lot of health and wellness training in organizations.
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To take all of that and focus it primarily within the corporate environment And, you know,
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I didn't listen to that voice immediately.
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And when I did Roxanne, I said, no.
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No.
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No.
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You just need to go get another degree.
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And so I went to graduate school, and I I got a master's degree in public health and and a
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graduate certificate looking at, you know, aging and health and well-being and so on.
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It was fantastic learning.
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And, you know, you don't take any sort of graduate studies without really being changed
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in how you're able to think.
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So that critical thinking that comes out of it.
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And so I finished the program and decided, okay, I should become an academic That's what
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it is I should do.
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And I actually worked for a while at one of our universities, one of the oldest universities in
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our province, and it was such an honor.
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It's my alma mater.
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And, I had the opportunity to work with folks in just different facilities designing,
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creating courses, and programs, and assessing and evaluating, it was delightful and I loved
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it.
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I was filling in a a term position and, thought, you know, within the 1st 6 months in,
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yeah, found my calling.
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This is where I should be.
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But the voice kept coming back at me, and it said you're only here to learn certain lessons.
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And I didn't realize those lessons until I decided whatever happened and I decided, no,
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I'm just gonna be full time in my own corporation, and the focus will be on working
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with leaders in organizations And I thought I would do it locally right here in Winnipeg
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where I'm living.
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Turns out I ended up doing it on three continents in the Caribbean all over and
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different sizes of organizations and such.
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And the lessons that I needed to learn that I had learned during the time when I was a
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registered dietitian in private practice and when I was a director at the university, they
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all came together to really facilitate this process of where I can design programs, create
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programs, do the training, the evaluation, and so on, and prepare my team.
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To best assist in, serving our clients.
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So long story to your question of how did I came into this space?
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That's how I ended up in this space.
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So
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Yes.
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It's interesting, right, because I often say that every moment you're in, whether it's your
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passionate, completely, on it or not, those, you know, there comes a synergy or or like a
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cross section where you get to this point and you're doing these things and you're thinking,
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Wow.
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I didn't think I could do this before, but then you kinda look back at your different roles and
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you realize you've been developing.
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So many implicit and explicit skills that you may not be aware until the new position
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dictates that you have to apply those skills.
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So well said.
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That's exactly what happened because I, for years, resisted wanting to work within
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organizations because I just had this bias, right, but it was more of a an unconscious bias
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towards leaders and corporations and greed and so on.
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So that I had that sort of you know, mentality towards business, though I was a business owner
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myself and still I'm a business owner.
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But the you're so right.
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The I was just being repaired for this role of really working with other organizations, other
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businesses to facilitate them to be, a, the best persons that they can be in order to work
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with their people who've been placed in their charge to help achieve the priorities, their
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goals, you name it, and to do so in a in a holistic way, in a healthy way.
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I come from a foundation of health, So, you know, people need to be mentally, emotionally,
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spiritually, and physically healthy in order for you to achieve any, goals that you've set
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out.
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So yeah, my perspective has been shifted, and I must say I'm loving it.
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We've been doing this solidly.
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We're entering our 7th year of working in this capacity.
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Fantastic.
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So let's talk a little bit because you do everything from psychometry and for anybody
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that that's a big word, but it means that basically they have to test and take a litmus
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test of what's really going on.
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And oftentimes, organizations, I know, we'll call in and say, you know, I'd like to learn,
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let's do a stress management day or something and they may not look at the kind of the
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overall things that are needed within the organization to make real change.
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And in your place, Phyllis, I know with some of the stuff that you do, you're looking at
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psychometry and kind of what's happening, and then you're applying and applying, you know,
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learnings accordingly.
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So let's talk a little bit about, 2020 and what we've been seeing and kind of, you know, the
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the new term and for people that have heard it, is BIPOC, which is basically looking at, you
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know, issues around diversity inclusion and just all of the the term by puck is black
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indigenous people of color Right.
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And the impact today since not and I, you know, before Phyllis and I got on, we talked a little
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bit about Not that it's the first time that this issue has ever come to light, but it came
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to light in such, I don't even know what the right adjective would be to use.
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Well, it's almost like it was just, you know, a shadow, like, a rocket taking.
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Right?
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It because it was always there.
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Always simmering, but it just went.
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In 2020.
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You know?
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Right.
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So let's talk a little bit about, obviously, leadership and you've been in in corporations
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working with leaders before.
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And I think, you know, I've been an an executive, you know, in different wellness
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strategies for 20 years.
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And I was I mean, I'm for people that don't know what I look like, I'm Brown.
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And then from the Caribbean, I moved here when I was sixteen years old to go to school.
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So I had a bit of a different kind of context coming to even North America.
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Yeah.
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And, you know, when you kind of think about it and I was in the corporate world and really
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hadn't thought about it, but hadn't really thought about it.
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At the level I was at.
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And then 2020 kind of, like I said, blows the door.
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They blows the door open where you have to maybe look at it.
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So with your work with leaders and leadership and company, companies in before and also into
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2020 and present, what has been the impact in organizations with what happened with Floyd on
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on that unfortunate say.
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Yeah.
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And, you know, George Floyd just represents the 100 of other men and women who have actually
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sacrificed their lives for you and I to be having this conversation today and for
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organizations to literally now be saying, Hey, what is our diversity, equity, and inclusion
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you know, policies or beliefs and perspectives and so on.
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So the quick answer to your question is definitely there has been almost a, a tsunami
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of leaders in organizations moving towards being perceived as being divers being companies
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that are equitable in their practices and companies that are inclusive.
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So you would be hard pressed not to find a company's diversity equity and inclusion policy
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on their website.
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What I have seen and experienced both as someone working with leaders within their
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organizations as well as being a service provider to say bigger suppliers.
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One of the areas that's really just taken, a a a more of a magnified approach is diversity
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suppliers.
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And so now there I belong to many different organizations that are geared towards ensuring
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that diverse groups.
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So, of course, women because we're in that realm of being, you know, diverse suppliers
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because we just are not the dominant ones in in the workspace.
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And then, of course, the BIPOC community.
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So the Blacks indigenous people of color, as well as LGBTQ plus and so So we're now seeing
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more organizations than ever who are becoming members of organizations that are applying
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providing opportunities for diversity groups.
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And, I mean, I ended up getting a It was a phone call, and it was one of those unknown
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numbers kind of almost like a 188 number that I didn't recognize.
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And what I thought Roxanne was just, oh, it's just those, you know, tele calling people.
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And I ignored it.
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This came in on our work, phone.
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Brought to my attention.
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I'm like, yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's just one of those people, but they called three times and somehow found an email address
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to email me.
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And the long and short of it it was, it was a significant size organization that was seeking
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to do some leadership training.
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And they reached out to me because they had registered as a diversity supplier.
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And course, I cover 2 of the diversity criteria.
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I am woman at identified as woman And I'm a a black person.
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I'm a person of African heritage, which is my preferred term, but my skin color, people say
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it's black.
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Right?
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My heritage is African.
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So we got that.
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And so it's, again, what I'm seeing across the board, even boards, are looking at diversifying
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their makeup.
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And I hope we get a chance to talk about you know, when the the pedal hits the what is it?
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The pedal hits the
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The hell hits the metal.
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Metal.
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Right?
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Right?
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Or the rubber hits the road?
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I wanna talk about what this really, is in reality.
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So a lot of the things that I have seen and I am seeing are more some of the the written
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policies, but we've always had written policies around diversity equity and inclusion.
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And it took the loss of George Floyd's the the murder of George Floyd.
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Let me reframe it properly, the murder of George Floyd, the murder of Breonna Taylor, all
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of those beautiful people's lives that were snuffed out even though we had written policies
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around, you know, supporting protecting people who are in the BIPOC, community.
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So, yeah, more people, more organizations are looking to be whether it's training, whether
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it's, again, the policies that they're putting out, whether it's, boards that are making sure
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now that women and, more black people, indigenous people, people of color are being
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part of these organizations, but there's still more that needs to be done.
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So I think, I completely agree with you when you say that It's like when I was, you know,
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way back into the EAP world, which is the employee assistance world, and that was the
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round that I worked in, is that a lot of companies that time.
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It was like a rubber stamp.
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Yes.
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It was like, well, you gotta go to my corporate website and on the homepage at the bottom kind
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of ribbon, you'd see that stamp.
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And I think what I hear you saying is, you know, for most of the companies that I worked
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with over the years had a diversity include inclusion along with harassment and violence.
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Nothing new.
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Right.
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But what you're saying now is that, unfortunately, like, to your point, these you
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know, poor innocent people had to lose their lose their lives for something like this to
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happen, versus you know, it's naturally evolving into, you know, actual concrete steps
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of things that could be done you know, from the micro level all the way to the macro level to
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ensure that we have, you know, that voice across the board.
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And, you know, and I talk a lot about authentic voice and leadership and things like that.
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And, you know, it I've I've I feel saddened that it took something like that, but here we
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are now.
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And what you're saying is that you're seeing organizations actually making, shifts to
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create, spaces for people of diversity, inclusion, all those, LGBTQ within their
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organizations.
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Yes.
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They are.
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Yeah.
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What what what about within the organizations?
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Like, how, you know, there's one thing we talk.
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I mean, I'm diverse and I, you know, I'm, my friends all some say to me, Roxanne, I forget
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your Trinidadian because I said that's yes.
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That's I am a Trinidadian, but I'm also a Canadian My like you, my ethnicity is South
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Asian and and Middle Eastern.
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And I'm an overall person with lots of you know, diversity Many
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layers and, yeah, you're
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a human being.
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Lots.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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But within organizations and even in conversations I've had, Phyllis, Now, a lot of
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people are uncomfortable talking about things.
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I, you know, let's so we're talking about the leaders and, and, and they have to be able
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ensure that there's parity at certain levels, that flows from the top down.
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But even day to day within organizations now, how are employees kinda maneuvering that space
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about, you know, diversity and kind of inclusion and the fact that it has changes.
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It's no longer it has to.
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It is being done.
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What what do you think the context is in the organization's
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Yeah.
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You know what?
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You raised some really important points there, one of which I want to quickly us.
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And it's what you shared about whether it's your friends who are likely they're white.
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Your friends are white who would say something like, I keep forgetting that you're a
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trinidadian, or they'll say things like, you know, I don't see color Right?
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So what's happening in organization is those kinds of conversations are not being had simply
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because people are still deeply uncomfortable to call out the proverbial elephant that's in
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the room.
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And the so called elephant is that we are a diverse group of people.
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So I am a person of African heritage whose skin color is black.
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Right?
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You are a Southeast Asian person, and so you say, Brown, and and there's an indigenous
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person and so on and so forth.
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The very fact that there's this discomfort in naming it, saying that I'm a black woman
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without having to lower your voice, lower your eyes, or so tells me and the data supports it
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that we still are not where we need to be Roxanne.
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For us to have these important conversations, they're courageous conversations around you
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know, the whole concept of racism.
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So here's what's happening in organization.
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I had a conversation just recently with a, you know, she's someone who oversees a program for
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which our corporation has been working with them for better part of 10.
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I believe we're entering maybe 12 years now.
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And it's a large organization here in in in our province.
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Wonderful person.
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Beautiful woman.
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Inside and out.
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She identifies as a woman.
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I would say that person is no bone of being a racist or anything in her.
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None.
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Just the the just a human being, beautiful human being.
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And we were having a similar conversation to what you and I are having.
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And I asked a simple question and I said, I'll call the person Mary.
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I said Mary, let me ask you this.
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And I have preface it with my intent that my intent is to make the point that we still are
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only making changes on paper via the policies versus the changes that need to be made through
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hearts and heads, and that can only come from conversation.
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So I said, Here's how I'll prove that.
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I just need to ask you this one question.
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Do you identify yourself as a person who's from the white race.
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Do you see yourself as a racial person?
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No.
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No.
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I'm gonna pause and let that sink in.
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So if you have black race indigenous race, people of color race, Well, who are the others?
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Are they a race?
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And so that is one of the courageous conversations Roxanne.
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That needs to be had in organizations.
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And some of the leaders, the CEOs around the world, I really love 1 of the Starbucks CEO.
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I believe she's based in the Seattle region.
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I don't know if you heard this story a year or 2 back this young, black man was waiting for a
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group of colleagues in a Starbucks and he decided to sit at the table.
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He didn't order any thing.
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And they approached him, the staff, a white manager approached him and said, sir, you need
22:23
to order something, or you you have to leave.
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And he said, oh, yeah.
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Yeah.
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I will.
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I'm just waiting on my buddies to join me.
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And she said, nope.
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You have to order something now.
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Or you have to leave.
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And I said, but I'm just waiting on my buddies.
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They just texted me.
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They should be here shortly, and then we're all gonna order.
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Long as short of it is, she called the police the police came.
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And, of course, in the in the US, when the police arrived, another police colleague and
22:50
friend of ours, describe their arrival as that they interpret every call as a gun call.
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And I believe that young man lost his life.
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He he too ended up just being killed just like that because as far as he's concerned, he's
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just sitting in a cafeteria waiting for his friends to order.
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But if the race was switched, if it was a white male sitting there, our female, waiting for
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their friends, to order.
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Not a problem.
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So we're still not having the kinds of authentic conversations that need to be and,
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you know, various companies and so on Roxanne is we're talking about events this happened to
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so so and so.
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This, we need to not make sure, but we need to attack the system.
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And if I have time, I'd love to sort of just peel that apart a bit more by what I mean, the
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system of racism and sort of how it not only is, you know, an independent force onto itself
24:12
that requires each and every one of us to now identify with our ethnic groups and the fact
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that we're identifying as humans, though we might look different physically, but we need to
24:28
come together as human beings to actually steer this massive ship, this system called racism.
24:37
Mhmm.
24:38
And it's so powerful.
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Right?
24:40
And I think to some degree, I when I moved here, I was sixteen and, you know, I I grew up
24:49
in the Caribbean.
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And, of course, there's colonialism there, and it's even more I think it's it's out there, but
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it's not out there.
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It's understood.
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There's this power.
25:00
That just happens because you're you're white or non white in the Caribbean.
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So, you know, I have a a different perspective, but even though it's the same, So when I came
25:10
to North America, you know, my president was black.
25:12
My prime minister was Indian.
25:14
My my, you know, dentist was knees.
25:16
I had the the rainbow and then came to North America and then was really felt different,
25:24
really, really different for the first time in my life.
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And I'm like, well, what's going on here?
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Like, you know, so I went through something a bit different And when I started to listen to
25:37
young teenagers at that, I could kinda tell that that they they felt different.
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And I'm like, why do they feel different?
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You know, and I and I my brother-in-law, he grew up here, and he said Roxanne, you know,
25:51
and he would explain to my sister and I, because he was treated different growing up
25:58
here from, you know, he was he's turned it at him as well.
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And I'm like, wow.
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That's interesting because the reality then you had to really kind of try to understand it,
26:05
which was Uh-huh.
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You know, even though I knew it, I hadn't experienced it to the level that he had
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experienced it.
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And, you know, so I think what these conversations fill us without a doubt, I think
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we have to have them.
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I have them with my friends and some of them have headaches because they they, you know,
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they love me
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and they go, well, why are
26:25
we talking about this?
26:27
Said, because we need to talk about it.
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And they go
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Absolutely.
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You know, why you, you know, why you making us talk about this?
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I said, because we need to talk about it.
26:34
Mhmm.
26:35
And, in, you know, these are friends I've for 30 years.
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And and and we'd never sit down.
26:40
Yeah.
26:41
Fantastic people.
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Right?
26:43
And that is the point that I wanna really drive home.
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The fact that we live and operate within a system that is independent of our individual
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actions.
26:58
We must become absolutely aware of that,
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mindful of that.
27:04
And by that, I mean, one of
27:04
the there are a number of tenants on which the western world and consequently places like the
27:17
Caribbean.
27:17
So countries in the Caribbean.
27:19
Are shaped by them because of colonization.
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So in Western societies, the they operate on the system of individualism.
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I as an individual, Phyllis Reed Jarvis.
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I'm a good person, and I do not discriminate against anyone.
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And dare you to say I am a racist because another person from my ethnic group did
27:47
something that's considered to be racist or that, you know, they they've done something
27:54
that goes counter to the prevailing belief about that society holds.
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So that is what happens when you look at any data or research on the whole concept of racism
28:09
and how the quote unquote races navigate that system because the system is designed to favor
28:18
whites, of course, because it's designed by whites for whites.
28:22
That is it's primarily run by white males.
28:25
If you look at the highest echelon of our, organizational structures, the highest levels
28:33
of decision making.
28:35
It's all primarily white males who are at those tables.
28:39
And, and that says a lot because how do you speak for a white female who's not present at
28:46
that table?
28:47
How do you speak for a black?
28:49
Indigenous, a person of color who they're not at that table to help shape decisions and
28:55
policies and so on.
28:56
So, yes, in organizations, we're wild world Worldwide, people are talking about what's
29:02
happening because you cannot not help, but talk about it.
29:06
Right?
29:06
Technology has made it so available so you can watch George Floyd's murder over and over and
29:16
over because it's just in the in in the social media.
29:21
And, and so when we look at ways in which to become more authentic as leaders of
29:31
organizations These are the kinds of conversations that need to be had.
29:37
They are incredibly uncomfortable they're unsettling only because these conversations
29:46
will challenge the prevailing belief the the concept of meritocracy, for example.
29:54
So as an executive, you would probably in your career have had the opportunity to, you know,
30:01
maybe dole out, recommendations, rewards, and and and and so on.
30:09
To employees based on the concept of principles of merit across.
30:15
Right?
30:15
So you work hard, You stay late.
30:19
You do the work.
30:21
You will be rewarded.
30:23
After all, isn't that how I got to where I am?
30:27
But meritocracy is one of the tenets of this system called racism.
30:34
So individualism is one of the pillars.
30:36
Meritocrossi is one of the pillars.
30:38
Capitalism is one of the pillars.
30:40
A lot of other isms are the pillars that hold up the system of racism, Roxanne, and leaders
30:49
that I am challenging that I love what you do, Roxanne.
30:54
And in terms of this concept of authentic leadership, I call it radical leadership as in
31:02
this, you know, when you have to do make a radical change because this the situation is so
31:09
dire.
31:10
You don't have the time to be deliberating and analyzing.
31:15
It just has to happen now.
31:18
So coming from that place of authentic realization that conscious realization that as
31:26
leaders, we hold the powers, and we're talking primarily white males in organization white
31:34
females as well.
31:35
Right?
31:36
And members of the BIPOC community because sometimes when they themselves are given
31:43
positions of authority.
31:45
The prevailing pressures of the system called racism holds them in in a certain position.
31:54
And, you know, some of the literature that I have looked at, we've created programs on
31:58
diversity, equity, and inclusion training.
32:02
So we've done extensive research.
32:04
And, you know, one would think for example, president Obama, president of 1 of the most
32:11
powerful democracy in in on this earth that, yeah, some change would come, but, no, that was
32:20
not the case.
32:21
He was one person who, you know, belonged to this BIPOC community and dare he to challenge
32:32
the prevailing structure of the system.
32:35
That's called racism.
32:36
He couldn't.
32:37
So he essentially had to tow the line And so I think that what you're doing here by having
32:43
these conversations Roxanne, and it's powerful because it's an opportunity for people to
32:48
learn.
32:48
I'm an educator at heart.
32:50
I do a lot of work, different work, but at my core is, I've been gifted and blessed to be
32:58
able to help people to educate an education or to educate someone is all about providing that
33:07
foundation, that structure, that space so that they can take that information in, internalize
33:15
it, and through the power of critical making make sense and meaning of it so they can do
33:21
something with it.
33:24
Not just to keep it to yourself.
33:25
Yeah.
33:25
And it says, you know, when I listen to you, it's a synthesis of both part both parts.
33:31
Right?
33:31
So, like, when I think of the conversations of my friends, I'll say, don't talk about this on
33:35
your podcast anymore.
33:37
Well, jokingly, but I said it's so true because I I and these are people I've, you know, they
33:42
be become part of my family because they've known me for so long.
33:45
And even them, because I we were talking about things.
33:48
The perspectives were I I was blown away because some people are like, can we get over
33:53
this?
33:54
Some of you were having headaches.
33:56
Some people were like, you know, okay.
33:57
Well, I I didn't think you this is one what that I got.
34:02
I didn't think you would have, perspective on this.
34:07
And I said, why not?
34:09
And I said, Okay.
34:11
Well, hold on.
34:11
If you don't think I should have perspective, have you ever asked me?
34:15
And that's when people are like, What do you mean asked you?
34:19
I said, have you asked me how I feel or have felt, even though I've kind of probably kind of
34:26
flitted away with it, what it's been like to live, in the environment that I have, and they
34:32
and one friend, and this is one of my best friends said, I would not have ever thought to
34:36
ask you that question.
34:39
I wanna respond to that because, you know, we're all a victim.
34:45
Of the system.
34:46
So white people, black people indigenous, people of color, you name it.
34:50
We're all victims.
34:52
And the system of racism is designed to keep those who benefit from it ignorant of its far
35:02
reaching negative impact on others.
35:06
So BIPOC community are others.
35:10
And then they now are the recipients of the favors that the system is designed.
35:17
So your friend could never, unless you raised it with her, she is just not designed or the
35:27
system is not designed for her to say, Hey, Roxanne.
35:31
I'm hearing all these things happening.
35:34
You know, how do you feel as a woman of color having to navigate this world that is so
35:45
biased, you know, towards myself as a white woman and against you as a woman of color.
35:51
They're not created to design for for folks to be aware and to be educated about the system in
36:02
which they live, but what is encouraged, and I said it earlier, is for folks to think about
36:08
themselves as individuals and your friend as an individual, again, is a good person of the way
36:16
that she wants to define that.
36:19
Would not not hire a person of color, right, unless maybe she herself or a family member,
36:28
they need the same position and, you know, they will default to take care of own, but as an
36:33
individual, they're good people.
36:35
And they're caring people.
36:36
They're loving people.
36:38
So we need to have these courageous conversations and we need to be authentic
36:46
leaders over our lives, whether we have formal titles, for leaders or no titles, but we are
36:54
leaders of our lives.
36:56
Thus, we must take that radical approach and and lead the courage that we need to lead with.
37:04
So I completely completely agree.
37:06
And I've had, you know, little, like, we're gonna put head butts along the way since all of
37:11
this has happened in this year.
37:12
And I'm the, you know, the most loving and kind person, but I kind of ran into things that I
37:17
didn't even know I was getting into.
37:21
And that's someone that's, you know, been thinking about it and and educated on it.
37:26
And so but the average person in the workplace, you know, my my fear is if you don't have
37:31
leaders that are able to have these deep conscious conversations, the camps that get
37:37
created between, you know, bipalk and, you know, white employees, how does that get
37:45
mitigated if not done well.
37:46
That's my that's that's what I'm thinking.
37:48
Right?
37:49
Uh-huh.
37:49
Like, how does that what have you been seeing?
37:51
Is it that, people are coming along because there is more need for these, I'm gonna use
37:58
strategies that are being laid out or rolled out in a good way, or is it that it's kinda
38:03
like still We're far off from people getting to the point where they can have these conscious
38:08
conversations.
38:09
I think we're far off.
38:10
That's the quick answer.
38:13
We really are far off because if we don't address the I always I somewhat think in
38:21
metaphors because, you know, my personality, I do psychometric assessments.
38:25
There's quite a bit of p in my personality.
38:28
I see possibilities so the metaphor that I would use is if you are, say, a company that
38:38
operates dams, damage, hydro dams, and you've damned a river.
38:45
And there's a village, a city, or a town, really below this dam.
38:50
And one day, there's a breach in in in the section of the dam that causes massive flooding
38:58
to occur in the city or the village down below.
39:02
Where do you start to clean up?
39:05
You gotta go where the breach is first.
39:08
Because if you start mopping up that water at the the the foot of the the dam, you're just,
39:16
like, rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
39:20
You gotta think no matter what.
39:22
Right?
39:23
That I love that analogy.
39:24
So you have to go back to the root cause and I would say that the root let's say the root
39:29
cause is policy and procedure, which I would say the most companies have some semblance of
39:36
of that.
39:37
So let's say, you know, they're starting to address the dam, but they still need to get
39:42
further along the routes.
39:45
So what would be the next step?
39:46
Like for a lot of companies that have had these policies, to really believe that we're going in
39:51
the right direction.
39:52
Mhmm.
39:53
Great question.
39:54
And so the root causes of racism, just as how it it's a belief system, Roxanne.
40:04
So remember, we are socialized all of us to believe many, many things.
40:10
And so policies and procedures are tools that come out of the realization, there's this
40:19
system within which we're living and working and playing and operating.
40:26
Some of us are better able to navigate it without losing our lives while others have to
40:32
be so careful.
40:33
You see a police officer.
40:35
You some of you will like, I don't even see the police officer because they're there to serve
40:40
and protect me while others will think, oh my god.
40:42
Will I make it home alive tonight?
40:45
Okay.
40:45
So looking at policies and procedures, when we do our training, those are the results.
40:53
There are tools that we'll use now to facilitate the achievement of changing the
41:03
system at your organizational level.
41:07
And if you can have more and more organizations doing this, then that is what we call a
41:15
critical mass will accrue, and as a result, we'll start to see changes within, say, the
41:22
city of IPEG, the city of Toronto, but it still doesn't change the country called Canada until
41:30
the majority.
41:31
We have a greater critical mass of organizations because we're talking about
41:37
authentic leadership, but recognize the same is true within households.
41:43
So a child, the data tells us, a white child as young as age five already knows that they are
41:55
quote unquote better than a child who does not look like them.
41:59
Age five.
42:00
Interesting.
42:01
Interesting.
42:02
And and this is not, you know, data that is made up.
42:07
This is done by other white scholars who have been studying whiteness and and and racial, you
42:15
know, diversity, equity, and inclusion for years.
42:18
This is credible data.
42:19
So the DAM comes from the houses in which we all reside.
42:27
We live in organizations for the better part of our lives during the day.
42:31
And then we go to our homes.
42:33
That's our other organization where we spend the remaining half of our lives.
42:39
And what you and I say within the confines of those walls are what will go to shape the
42:49
validity, actually, of those policies and the credibility of those policies that are made in
42:57
organizations, but we must have the courageous conversation and recognize that racism is not
43:06
an event.
43:09
Like, what is her name is Robin D'Angelo in her book?
43:13
White fragility.
43:14
She speaks about this.
43:16
Richard Wright from back in the 6th.
43:18
This talked about it.
43:19
James Baldwin talked about it.
43:22
You know, w e b Du Boire, they're all civil rights leaders talked about the fact that
43:28
racism is not an event.
43:31
It's not something you one event you do to someone.
43:35
It's a system that we're operate within and BIPOC people hold up the system to certain
43:44
extent.
43:45
Right.
43:46
Right.
43:46
So it really, you know, and I often say, you know, through adversity, we really it brings us
43:53
to a neat our knees because unfortunately, it's such a trauma, but it it it it opens such an
43:59
opportunity to to do work that was always necessary from for for for years years years.
44:05
Right?
44:06
And now it's it's kinda it's kinda it's redirecting us.
44:09
We need to we need 2020 has redirected us in so many ways.
44:12
Right.
44:13
And I know, of course, with this financial effect with, the BLM movement.
44:18
It it has brought to light things that need to be focused on and to continue.
44:23
Now I'm gonna, you know, I know we've been really long, and I've I I think you and I
44:28
probably could talk for hours on this issue.
44:31
I'm gonna I want, you know, I know leaders that are listening.
44:34
They get what you're saying.
44:36
I know the leaders that I work with, I talk about transparency.
44:39
I talk about, you know, you know, what they need to do to keep moral perspective how to
44:46
deconstruct their leadership, all those things.
44:48
But for the person out there that's listening and maybe struggling.
44:54
Right?
44:55
The average employee that says, you know, I've been I've been traumatized by this.
45:01
Mhmm.
45:02
Like, I I I know what you're saying, Phyllis, and I know what you're saying Roxanne, but I
45:06
still have to go to work where I feel I'm gonna use the word, you know, upside down or
45:11
dysregulated and uncomfortable.
45:14
What is it that you would say to the average employee that they need to do for themselves?
45:19
Because the the organization may be trying really hard, and the dam is being repaired a
45:24
bit at a time.
45:26
But we know that's gonna take time.
45:27
What could the average employee have to to do for themselves and what kind of supports should
45:32
they get or reach out for if they're feeling like this?
45:36
Mhmm.
45:36
Great question.
45:37
And I must preface my answer by saying I too, was deeply traumatized by the events of 2020
45:47
coming out of the Black Lives Matter Movement, the deaths of George Floyd, Taylor all of them.
45:54
I expect the better part of, I'm gonna say the last 15 years, not listening to the news.
45:59
I do not feel my mind or body, things that I know are contrary to its well-being and its
46:07
health.
46:08
And so I was living in, a a world where I was navigating the world Roxanne, you know, through
46:16
my own lenses and I must say I've had an amazing experience.
46:23
I've traveled to 3 different continents multiple times you know, I've gone through
46:29
airports with my head wrapped with an African scar or my hair like this.
46:36
I was never pulled over.
46:38
Pulled aside.
46:40
Nothing.
46:41
I've always just been able to navigate the world beautifully.
46:44
I do stand as a black woman in boardrooms.
46:47
I speak to some of the top top leaders many of whom are in the US.
46:51
We do a lot of work with clients in the US.
46:53
I've always had a very positive experience, same too with my family, and yet I was deeply
47:00
traumatized.
47:01
So I appreciate the question, and I I really welcome it.
47:05
What I would say is to each person out there hearing this conversation having a headache
47:11
because it does give one a bit of a headache and a heartache as well because we're humans,
47:16
and we're good people.
47:18
I want you to take care of yourselves first.
47:21
You know, one of the things that really helped me is a practice that I've had for the better
47:27
part of 20 years.
47:29
My mornings all start with what I call prayer and devotion and meditation.
47:35
So I I wake up early, so I have time to do that.
47:40
I will meditate for about 30 minutes.
47:42
I do use a number of different mantras and just, you know, uplifting even sounds whether
47:49
it's sounds of monks chanting, because that works for me.
47:54
Find your thing.
47:55
Matter what your faith is.
47:57
If you are a faith based person, use your own scriptures, your own teachings that will uplift
48:04
you and spend 10 minutes meditating on a Versa 2 or something that uplifts you, then take the
48:11
rim another 10 or 15 minutes And if you are courageous enough to start to write out your
48:18
feelings, just just write no editing I feel like I think that this makes me feel because
48:26
that's what I ended up having to do, even though I've been meditating for over 20 years,
48:31
almost 20 years.
48:32
The whole events of 2020 and those things that happened prior left me feeling very vulnerable
48:40
I have never been afraid in my life and I felt afraid.
48:43
I was so glad that travel was shut down because I was scheduled to be in South Asia And South
48:52
America.
48:53
And I was thinking, I don't know if I could do that again.
48:56
And so this process, this practice that I have been practicing and just I just heightened it
49:03
So I wanna say to you, take the responsibility to take care of yourself first is one of the
49:13
reasons why when we're on an airplane, we are reminded by the flight attendants before we
49:19
take off that we must put our oxygen masks on first in the event of any sort of issues that
49:25
happens that require those masks to be worn, put your mask on first, then help others.
49:32
So take care of yourselves, whether it's through exercise, nutrition, meditation,
49:37
prayer, devotion, crafts, painting, you know, re whatever it is.
49:43
Find your thing and take care of yourself first.
49:47
Once you've done that and you get to a state where you feel you can start having these
49:52
courageous conversations.
49:54
You will not change your whole organization on your own, but you can change someone's life
50:00
just by extending that proverbial olive branch and say, hey, Phyllis, as a black woman.
50:08
How are you feeling?
50:10
Or as an indigenous woman, how are you feeling?
50:13
A woman of color, a man of whatever.
50:15
Right?
50:16
So just unzip it.
50:18
Be like the wrap There's a beautiful video out there.
50:22
We use this video when we do our mental health and well-being trainings where, you know, this
50:28
little boy had suffered just some issues with some work that he was doing in the long and
50:32
short of it is.
50:33
All the other other animals came, well, you should do this.
50:36
Let's go do this.
50:38
No.
50:38
But the rabbit was the one that came and without the little boy knowing sat quietly
50:44
beside him and then the little boy was sitting there crying, the rabbit just moved closer and
50:50
closer until he was touching the little boy, but said nothing.
50:54
And he sat there in silence until a little boy had done his internal thinking, healing,
51:02
whatever it is.
51:03
Then he started coming up with all his own solutions and the rabbit just sat there
51:09
silently and just applauded him.
51:12
So we can be like that rabbit.
51:14
We don't need to be giving solutions.
51:17
Because we're 1 out of, what, 7,000,000,000?
51:21
Well, what if we all were to just be like that So those are some things I would say.
51:25
Just just be there.
51:26
Just be there and try to take care of yourself first and, you know, have the faith that you
51:32
know, there's a lot of good people in the world that are wanting this change.
51:36
And, without a doubt, do what you can do in the you know, 2 meter radius around yourself, to
51:42
your point.
51:43
That's a that's a beautiful story.
51:45
So, Phyllis, there's I'm you shared, so much wisdom today that I'm I'm sure my listeners
51:50
will appreciate this.
51:52
And, what am I taking away?
51:55
I think I'm taking away that, let's have more of those headaches.
52:00
Let's have those conversations.
52:03
And let people know, how you're feeling, and to to make the difference, you know, and I have to
52:10
also say to myself, that sometimes I wanna park it myself because I don't wanna think about it.
52:17
So I have to challenge myself like I'm gonna challenge everybody else listening to think
52:21
about it, to to to think about what could you make, what could you ask a little bit
52:25
different, or how could you be a bit more conscious you know, to someone that is
52:31
different from you and whatever frame that is, whatever frame that is, just to to think about
52:36
it and and try to reflect on potentially what that person's experience might be and to try to
52:42
learn from that going forward.
52:45
So for us, for people wanting to to reach out to you for, you know, consulting or, training
52:52
or to learn more about your company.
52:54
Where can they get a hold of you?
52:56
You could just simply go to ultimate potentials.com or you can just Google my name,
53:02
Phyllis Reid Jarvis.
53:04
Our company will pop up.
53:06
We have a very strong social media presence.
53:10
So you could find me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, any of those platforms, but our
53:16
website is ultimate potentials.
53:18
Dotcom.
53:19
Awesome.
53:19
And that will be in the short notes.
53:21
So for everyone, thanks so much for tuning in.
53:23
I'm I'm sure you have gained as much as I've gained today and, Phyllis has been so gracious
53:30
with her knowledge.
53:31
So again, for anyone needing assistance from me on authentic leadership with your teams, please
53:36
reach out to Roxanne.
53:38
Derhodge for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne.
53:43
Cree roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
53:57
We'll see you next time.
53:59
An authentic living with Roxanne.