Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #114: Nick Pinizzotto Talks Deer Hunting, Deer Policy and Deer Management

Transcript

Wired To Hunt Podcast #114: Nick Pinizzotto Talks Deer Hunting, Deer Policy and Deer Management · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: your host Mark Kenyan. In this episode number one d
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: fourteen Tan the show, we're joined by the President CEO
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: of the National Deer Lines, Nick Penzoto, and we're talking
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: deer hunting, dear policy, deer management, and much much more.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: All Right, welcome to another episode of the Wired to
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sick of Gear. And
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: today in the show, we're going to be joined by
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: the President and CEO of the National Deer Alliance, Nick Penzota,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and we're going to discuss a lot of different topics
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: that I think any and all deer hunters should be
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: interested in. The NBA is a group that started a
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: couple of years back, and you've likely heard me and
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Dan talk about it a few times in the past,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: and since Nick took the helm last fall, some pretty
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: exciting things have been going on over there. So once
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: we get Nick on the line, we're going to be
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: asking him all about what the NDA is, what it's
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: up to, and then we're gonna dive into some of
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: the most important issues related to deer across the country
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: and what we as hunters can do now to make
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: sure that there are plenty of healthy deer, great habitat
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and hunting habitat or excuse me, hunting opportunities available for
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: all of us in the generations to come. But before
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Nick joins us, stand and I have a few updates
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: that we need to share from our own hunting world. So, Dan,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: what's new with you? I was hoping you would go first,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: because since the last time we talk, other than shoot
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: my bow, I have not done anything like This past
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: weekend was a family weekend, so we went to a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: parade and just basically played and you know, hung out
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: with the fame kind of weekend while I shot my
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: bow maybe three or four times over the past five
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: or six days. So that's not bad. But uh but yeah,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: so I didn't set any tree stands this weekend. I
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: didn't do any food plot stuff this weekend, so I
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: kind of slacked on that end. Well, okay, at least
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: you shot your bow better than nothing, that's right. I've
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: picked up the slack for you, okay, because I have
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: had like a gauntlet of a past couple of days
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and like everything has gone wrong. It's been like a
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: debacle of a three day of the past three days.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Long story short. The big things I've been doing is
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: um We've talked about a few times, but not a
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: whole ton. My family has a small property up in
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: northern Michigan, right where you know, we've got our deer
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: camp up there. That's where I, you know, grew up
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: deer hunt, learning a deer hunt and all that kind
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of stuff. But the last I don't know, fifteen years,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: maybe a little longer than that, the deer population has
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: really really struggled up there. The habitat has changed a lot,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: There's not as much food available, the deer population has
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: gone way down, and because of that, we've hardly seen
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: any deer, let alone kill anything for almost two decades now.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So over the past few years I've been talking about
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: trying to do some habitat improvements up there, trying to
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: do some work, and finally we started doing something last year.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Last year we started clearing out an area for our
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: first for our first food plot, and then this spring
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: we have decided what we've been able to kind of
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: take it to the next step and finished clearing it out,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: and then this past weekend we went up there to
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: try to actually get it planned and ready to go.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: So the bad news was that, just like tell you what,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: weeds have just been like the biggest pain in my
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: butt this year. So not only is my food plot
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: down here in Michigan all weeded up and grown over,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: but when we got to our northern Michigan place we
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: sprayed it earlier this summer. We went back up there
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Sunday and it's grown up all to hack again, way
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: way way high. And I was hoping my dad was
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: gonna be a go and spray a second time over
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the summer, but he couldn't. So unfortunately, between us maybe
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: not killing off everything as well as we could have
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: the first time and then not getting to do a
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: second run, super weedy and we just don't have big equipment,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: like I'm operating with a little tiny twelve inch disc
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: on the back of my fore brothers. So we tried
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: to spray everything down Sunday, and we were doing that
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: with little hand sprayers because that's all we had up there.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: So that was horrible. And then we thought, okay, if
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: we can spray everything, hopefully that chemical absorb into the
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: roots system so that when we cut everything twenty four
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: hours later, hopefully, if even if we don't kill everything
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: when we cut it and disk it, some of that
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: we kill wilf continue to kill it in the long
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: r And so we sprayed on Sunday Monday. Then we
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: came in and luckily we had a neighbor who had
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: a brush hog. He was able to mow this area down.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: That was a huge help because other as our plane
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: was literate to go up there with like sickles and
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: just sickle down all the weeds over like a half agre,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: which would have been a nightmare. Um, And you know
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: this isn't that exciting the story. I guess we just
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: spent like ten hours trying to get rid of weeds
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: and trying to disc up this area with my little
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: four wheler disc and I bent the receiver on my
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: dad's new four wheeler because this disc is a piece
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: of I don't know it works, but it's kind of
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: a piece of crap too, And the thing kept popping
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: off because I was trying not to mount the disc
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: on there. It's kind of a complicated way that this
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: thing mounts to a four wheeler. But I didn't want
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: to bend this thing anymore, so I was trying to
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: have it tight enough that the disc would stay on,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: but not so tight that it would crank this receiver
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: anymore and break it. Well, because of that, like ten times,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: the disc popped off, so I had to put the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: four wheeler on ramps do the whole thing over again.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: So it was just a long, long, hot, miserable day.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: We finally got all and we got lined it, we
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: got fertilizer, we got planted. But I just don't know
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: it's gonna be. If there's anything green coming out of
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: there this fall when I come back, I'll be I'll
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: be happy. I don't have I have not I don't
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: have the high expectations I suppose we Ell said, right.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: So that was yesterday, and then today I come back
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I guess start working on these stupid
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: food plots down here, because you know, like you, like
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I told you last time that one section didn't get
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: sprayed over the summer. So I thought, Okay, I better
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: spray it now. I gotta try to hire someone to
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: come out of the brush hoog. And I went in
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: there to try spray it today and it's even worse
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: than I thought it was gonna be. Like, it's like,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: it's not six ft tall weeds, it's like ten ft
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: tall weeds. Literally, it's like a rainforest. Yeah, it's insane.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So I decided just to abandon half of it. I'm
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: just gonna let it stay up in that thick cover,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna put my energy into the one
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: section and try to get it cleared out. But it's
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: a debacle. And how big of an area is the
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: really tall weeds, I would say it's probably an acre
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: to acre and a half. Okay, So so I had
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: one of my best hunting years once where the farmer
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: planted the seed, then he came through with his fertilizer,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: or he did one of the two things for you know,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: he planted and then he did fertilizer. I'm not sure
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: what goes first. But then the water came up high
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: over this entire field and it it uh, I guess,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: killed the seed, the soybeans or the corn that was
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: in there. And then the water receded. The fertilizer was
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: still there, and it made the weeds grow ten twelve
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: foot tall, right, just like you said, a giant rainforest
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: and that was some of the best hunting I have
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: ever had. Just sitting on the edge of this um,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: me and my buddy Ryan watched, uh watched a booner
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: true one seventy class deer fight off satellite bucks all
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: day long on this opposite end of this field. That's awesome.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: It was pretty cool. So it might, you know, who knows,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: it might turn into a mini betting area or staging
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: area for you. Yeah, that that's kind of what I'm
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: looking at it as now, like maybe there's a silver
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: lining here, like because you know, before I ever started
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: working on this areas of food plot at all, it
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: was just grass, like I don't know what kind of
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: grass it was, but just short grass that grew up
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: maybe three four ft tall in the summer and it
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: was all the same, you know, just some kind of
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: basic I don't know what it is, but it was
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: not providing a lot of cover. Deer never used it. Nothing. Well,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: then I started putting these food plots and that was great,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: and I've added some cover some of the things. But
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: now what happened, you know, like I mentioned, is that
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: because of the fact that I spread it all this
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: summer and now all these new weeds have taken you know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: taking seed and grown in there. It is like a
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: a really incredible diversity of plant growth in there. I
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: mean tons of stuff. And I gotta believe, you know,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: we've talked to a lot of habitat guys that talk
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: about the import some natural forage. Um, I gotta believe
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: there are some serious food in all of these forbes
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: and bushes and weeds and whatever the heck all this
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: stuff is. I don't know what it is, but there's
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: a ton of stuff out there, and it's thick, and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: there's lots of greenery, and like you said, I think
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: there will probably be dear betting in it. I'm actually
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: funny you mentioned it. I actually bumped a dough that
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: was better than it when I was driving my forwarther through. Um, So,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: who knows, maybe it'll actually help this area. I'll still
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: have a pretty nice sized food plot. Um, and now
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: there'll be some really great cover on my property, which
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: before are usually the great covers on the neighbors. So
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: now I'm going to have like an acre section that's
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: really nice and thick right adjacent to my food plus
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: really on either side of my food plot, one side
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: my neighbors, which has a great cover now, and have
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: another chunk on my side on the other side of
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the food plot, great betting on either side. And now
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: my little food plus and we tucked right in the
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: middle and completely secluded now because of how thick all
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: this growth is, you can't see the road at all.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: So now it's even better than my food plots green.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I've got like a food plot were or a food
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: plot screen in the world. It's just like acres and
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: acres of um isolation. So I don't know, who knows,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe it'll all work out. Okay, Well, good luck with
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: that mark, thank you. But man, I just I spent
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the last hour, literally just before I got in here
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to record this, driving around my foreward on the one
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: section I'm trying to reclaim, and like I said, ten
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: ft tall weeds and I'm driving my foreward through it,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: spraying behind me, and then all the pollen and bugs
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: and grasshoppers and everything. I'm flying off the weeds in
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: front of me, and my hair and my eyes and
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I've got so many like pricks all over my arms,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm snotting and sneezing and sweating and sounds like
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: it sounds to me like you're complaining. I guess, I
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: guess if that was my work day, it's probably better
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: than your work day. I just had to give you
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: ship well deserved probably, so who knows, maybe I'll shoot
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: a booner over it. I saw a shooter in on
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: my mission farm. I know, I saw the pics. Man,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Well that one. That's that's I got a whole bunch
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: of stories that haven't told. Different one. Yeah, so really
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: fast because we're running that time here. But um, last
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: week I was doing, you know, drive around the surrounding area,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and I saw two giants, including the one that I
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: posted a video on Facebook and Instagram, I think, and that,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a really nice Michigan buck. And as
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting there watching these deer from the side of
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the road, the landowner drives over starting and I'm like,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: oh jeez, he's not gonna be happy with me. But
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I said, I'll just stick around and talk to him.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: And long story short, I have tentative hunting permission there.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: So that was awesome. You see how that works? Yes,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: it worked out really well. Just you know, it's gotta
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: chat people up and be a decent human being. And
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: sometimes things work out and sometimes that's tough. Yeah, so
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I think I got hunting permission there. Sounded like he
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: wanted me to check back in, but it sounds like
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I could hunt there. And then like three days ago,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: I saw the buck that I got on trail cam
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: here on my main Michigan property. He came out in
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the soybean field like before eight o'clock. Um so, I
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: got a little bit of video of him way off
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: in the distance. Um So, that was cool. He's not
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: as big as I think he is. I thought he
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: was going to be. Um but he's probably one thirties.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Somewhere on there's a three year old I'm guessing maybe
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: a four year I'm not sure yet, but nice dear,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So that's cool. What are you using just your binoculars
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: or do you got a spotting scope too? Just been
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: using my buyoses I can. I can just see this
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: field and where my food plot is from a little
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: hill I can sit up on and I check it
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: out all the time. And uh yeah, hopefully, hopefully we'll
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: get some more footage here leading into this final couple
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: of weeks before September and get the stupid food plot
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: in and What's cool is that I can watch that
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: food plot and that's you know, I've seen holy Field
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: number of times back there. I've seen all sorts of
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: deer back number turd ferguson the bucket kill last year.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I watched him a couple of times before getting in there, hunts.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: It's a great situation where I can scout it from
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: afar and then you know, make the move at the
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: right time. Hey, I got a question for you. Um
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: any any update on that buck that uh we kind
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: of named Boner City. You know, I tried to call
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: him b C. Okay, this is you know, this is
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: a PG podcast. Yeah, it really does air that way sometimes. No,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: he disappeared. Man, that was like a one time deal.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I got pictures of him twice. He was a stud though.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I would love to kill a buck like that, super
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: tight and tall. That was awesome. Now can I have
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: permission to steal that name and name a buck? Name
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: a buck that it has to be a buck deserving
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: of it though, Okay, so I have to. Okay, I'll
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: show you a picture and I'll say, hey, Mark, can
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I name this buck Bonner City? And then you'll say,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: uh no, it doesn't meet the you know the characteristics
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: or yes it does meet the characteristics. Yeah, I think
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: that's okay. Alright, cool, cool, right, all right, keep me
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: keep me update on truck camera photos and whatnot so
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: we can audience. I'm sure they were gonna love it.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So with that said, I guess we better
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: we better move on to uh, to the real stuff
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: here and take a quick break to thank our partners
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: at Sick of Gear and then we'll give Nicko coole.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So this week for a Sick of Store, we're joined
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: by David Brinker, one of Sick Gears marketing team members,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: and his story took place a few years back when
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: he was invited on an absolute dream hunt chasing white
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: tails on Will Primost his property. Now, after a few
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: days of tough hunting, Will recommended that David tried a
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: different spot. But to do so, he told David that
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: he needed to leave his traditional archer equipment behind and
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: instead take a gun. Now, this was tough for David,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: as he loves using his bow, but he agreed. So
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: we'll drop David off at the tree stand with his
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: gun in hand, and David will take the story from here.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Just about the time Will gets around the corner and
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: his his gator. I can just start to hear the
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: sound fade off and I get settled in there and
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I got this Henry seventy that he loaned me out
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: of his gun cabinet. Beautiful gun. I've never shot it
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: in my life. Um, it looks like you could kill
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: an elephant with the cartridge. I'm not a gun guy,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: but don't know much about him. And he uh, he
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: gets around the corner there and I'm sitting there and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: literally not within seconds, I heard right, right right, I
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: heard a buck runting, and I'm like, oh, where's that
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: coming from? And I look over at the first trail
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: he told me they may come from and my left
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: and I see these white times pop out and I
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: could immediately tell it was a mature buck that was
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: a shooter buck chasing this dough. Well, the buck pushes
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the dough by me at eight yards and the whole
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: time thing to myself is why didn't I bring my bow?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Why didn't I bring my bow? Why didn't I bring
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: my boat? And he comes into my shooting Laney's so close.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I put this it's a lever action. And when I
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: saw hikind of trees. I had already. I had already
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: put around the chamber and pulled back the hammer. And
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: when he came in the shooting lane eight yards, he
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: was so close. I put the scope, but all I
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: could see was brown hair, So all I could do
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: was try to acquire. I could see where his shoulder
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: was moving, like at the crease of his shoulder was
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: moving back and forth, and I just I'm like, that
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: looks about right boom. And this is all literally like
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: within I mean, under five minutes Will. When Will left me,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: so Will had heard me shoot, he shoot, He barely
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: probably even got back to the place. And so here
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: he comes firing up the road in this gator with
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the cast. You know, he goes, you get one? I said, yeah,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I got one, and uh we walk over there and
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: and had a good time talking about you know, I
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: grew up watching watching all Will's videos on it, you know,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: in the West Is. I watched a lot of all
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: of his films, and so he was a hero of
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: mine growing up. So it was it was a very
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: surreal moment um spent with somebody I grew up watching,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: but also a pretty pretty good lesson learned in terms
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: of if you feel like you should bring your boat,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: just bring both. But no, it was great. It was
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: it was an awesome experience and and something I'll never
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: forget that, my friends, was a sick story. If you'd
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: like to learn more about Gear, you can visit sitka
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: gear dot com. And now let's get back to the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: show and get Nick on the line. All right now
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: with us on the line is Nick Penzotta. Welcome to
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the show. Nick, Thanks for having me. Guys, great to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, we uh you. You and I get
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: to chat quite a bit, but it's nice to be
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: able to chat publicly here on the podcast. Nick, Um,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: We're excited to talk about a lot of different things.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: There's some cool things going on right now with what
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: you're working on over at the National Deer Alliance. But
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: before I guess we get into all of that, could
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you share with our audience a little bit about who
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: you are, what's your background is, and what you're doing now?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Care Absolutely so, boy, who I am? That's kind of
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: a that's a tough question we'll probably all struggle with.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: But you know, I've always identified myself first and foremost
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: as an outdoorsman, and even deeper than that, a deer hunter.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: So I grew up in western Pennsylvania, where deer hunting
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: is even more than a passion, it's almost a religion there. It's, uh,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: you know, one of the craziest states in many ways
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: when it comes to deer hunting, from everything from passion
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: to struggles with deer management. So I grew up around it,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: so you know, it became natural to me to gravitate
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: in that direction. I grew up in a small house
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: with the brother and a sister, my mom and dad,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and you know, being in a small house, you just
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: want to be outside, and for me, it was out
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: there learning about deer and getting excited about him. So
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: with a little bit of luck in a long career
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and conservation and outdoors, I was lucky enough to find
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: myself and now in the position to get this National
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Deer Alliance off the ground and running, and as a
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: lifelong deer hunter, someone that's been passionate about it, it's
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: um really a cool opportunity and something that I hope
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: deer hunters across the country will also get excited about. Now,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: before you were with the National Deer Alliance, you were
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: with the Sportsman's Alliances that right, Yeah, so I'll just
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: back it up a little bit. When I lived in Pennsylvania,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Western Pennsylvania for actually most of my life, and I
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: worked for eleven years for a conservation organization known as
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy, So I've been in conservation and
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: outdoors work for a long time. I left there, though,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: to go to North Dakota Business North Dakota, where I
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: was the CEO of Delta Waterfall Foundation for a time,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and then from there to the Sportsman's Alliance where I
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: was working primarily on anti hunting related issues and you know,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: all things that threatened our our outdoor sports hunting, fishing,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and trapping. And it was after being there for a
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: little more than two three years that the National Deer
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Lines opportunity came available. So that's kind of my career
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: path to this point. Why why have you spent your
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: lifetime working in conservation like this? You know, from what
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I've seen, it's a relatively thankless job at times, it's
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: a tough job. What's drawn you to this and kept
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: you there so long? Yeah? Yeah, I mean, you know,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: it's I wouldn't say it's thankless because you're thanking in
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: so many different ways. You know, it's definitely hard work,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: it's it's really passion for me. A lot I tell
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: people that the deer lines for me is really a
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: passion project. I went from running you know, organizations in
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the past with you know, lots of employees and lots
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: of responsibility and having personal assistance and all these things too,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: being the one person to get deer lines off the grounds.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And some people look at that and they said, well,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: that's kind of crazy, you know, why would you do that?
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: And I just would describe my whole career and conservation
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the same way I knew. First of all, I was
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: never a big fan of school. I was a fan
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: of the outdoors. But I knew that school was a
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: necessary the process that I had to go through, you know,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: to go to college and to eventually get a master's
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: degree if if I wanted to do the types of
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: things I wanted to do. But even though knowing that
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: conservation wasn't going to be a big, high profile money
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: career like you know, accounting or being an attorney or
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: a doctor these types of things, it's just where my
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: passion was and it's what I wanted to do. And
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I always dreamed about the idea of getting back to
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the sports that really defined my childhood and growing up,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: becoming a young adult and so on and so forth.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: So you know, that's I thought, I think drove me
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: from the very beginning, and I I think with having
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: a little bit of success in my career combined with
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of luck developing relationships eventually led
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: to this really cool and unique opportunity. So um, as
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I said, you get rewarded in a lot of different
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: ways when you get to work in these environments, and
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I've I've really enjoyed really every step of the way
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: to this point. Yeah, well, I think, um, I'm very
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: thankful that there are people like you and many others
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: out there who are willing to you know, to devote
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: their lives to these types of causes so important. Um. Now,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: before we dive more into what the National Deer Lines
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: is doing now in a whole bunch of stuff like
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that that we're interested in talking about, you meant you
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: started off when you talked about who you are, you
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: know other than just being an outdoors when you are
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: a deer hunter first and foremost, And from what I
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: understand and what I heard and su your two thousand
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: fifteen deer hunting season was a pretty I almost call
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: it an epic one given the ending. Can you tell
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: us about your season last year? Sure, Yeah, it was
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: a great season, and you know, you define greatness and
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: in a lot of different ways, but in terms of
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: hanging tags on good animals last year was it was
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: pretty good for me. Um. Of course, I grew up
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: hunting white tailed deer and that's always been my main passion,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: particularly archery unning, and I started off my season really
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: early by going down to Kentucky for the first time
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and hunting their early season with the outside chance and
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: maybe seeing a good deer in velvet, which is something
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I always wanted to do and really did, called a
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: little bit of luck and good fortune with just two
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: days into their season down there, I'm sitting in the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: tree stand. It's ninety degrees and I took a really
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: nice fourteen point velvet buck down there, which was just
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a real thrill for me. It was a great hunt,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: and it's interesting the day before I got chased out
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: of the tree stand by a thunder and lightning storm.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned, ninety degrees, so it felt like summer
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: felt odd being out there. So that's how I started
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: the season just two days in and from there it
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: would became I should have mentioned I live in Central
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Ohio now, which is really whitetail Central, big Bucks just
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: about every corner. You run around every corner here, So
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I do definitely try to stretch out my season and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: focus on the older deer, not necessarily the biggest scoring
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: deer it's kind of a pet peeve of mine, but
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: definitely the oldest, most challenging deer. So the season was
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: dragging up, dragging along in Ohio had seen some good deer,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: but luckily we've got a little break, and my dad
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: and I got together and went out to South Dakota
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: to chase mule deer. Now I grew up with white tails,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: but as soon as my my first ever mule deer hunt,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: when I moved to North Dakota, I was immediately hooked.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, there just beautiful, beautiful animals and they almost
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: just stare right through you when you're hunting them, and
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: there are a great challenge as well. So I was
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: really excited to take a break from white tails and
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: get out there and chase mule deer, and my dad
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and I both took really nice mule deer in South
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Dakota and just just had a great time for me too.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: It was very exciting because I took him out west.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: That was his first Western hunting experience that he got
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: a chance to experience it as well, and I think
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I've probably got him hooked now. But then coming back
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: to Ohio, I still had that that ANTLERD tag in
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: my pocket, and one of the things that I high
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: we're really blessed to have a long season. So we
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: start the last week of September and we go all
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the way to the second week of February, so there's
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: plenty of opportunity. And I had been chasing this older
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: deer that I had known about since the previous season
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: and many many encounters with them, and his winners started
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to set in. I spent a lot of time just
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: patterning him and narrowing down where I thought he was
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: spending a lot of his winning time and went out
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and hung two stands on January four. Now, again, a
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: lot of people's seasons are over already at that point,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: but I hung one for each stand was for a
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: different win direction because I never knew exactly which way
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: to be blown. When I showed up to the farm,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: and I showed up to the farm the following morning
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: that would be January, selected the right one based on
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the wind and low and behold, I finally had the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: ultimate encounter with that deer. So, you know, to me,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: to take a really mature, older deer like that in
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: the winter where there's almost no cover for you because
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: the hunter they've seen it all at this point, and
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: to do that with a bow, I was really one
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: of my proudest moments as an archery hunter. And uh
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: also worked out that I shot a deer all the
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: way back in early September, the first one and the last,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: and all the way in late January. So I would
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: say that I certainly got my money's worth chasing deer
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: all across the country last year. Yeah, that's for sure, Dan,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: that that's how are you're supposed to do it? That's
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: how Yeah. Yep, knock on wood, that's what That's what
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: we're getting wrong. He had a heck of the season there. Uh,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I'm curious. I always tell people. I always tell people
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: that I'm not I mean, I've had a lot of
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the fortune of taking a lot of really nice deer
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: over the years, but I always tell people that have
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with my skill. It's just that I'm
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: not very good at giving up, so I will slug
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: plug it out out there and put in more time
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: than most people. So I certainly earned them in the end. Yeah,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I can definitely. I feel like that's my one skill
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: set that when it comes to deer hunting too, is
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just too stubborn to give up, for sure.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: So I kind of want to drill little bit more
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: into this late season buck. You you said you you
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: had known him the year before and you started patterning
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: him throughout the year head encownards. Can you just tell
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: us how you were able to to some degree pattern
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: him and finally eventually get it down to two stands.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Can you go in more detail? Yeah? Absolutely, ill preferences
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: by saying that I was chasing a different deer to
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: start the season, a really good deer that I've known
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: for four years now, and I believe he's still running
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: out there. But that deer disappeared on me in mid November.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I had a really close encounter with him. He was
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: betted with a dough. You know, we're in the peak
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: right now, this is mid November, and I think I
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: just got a little too close to his home and
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: he bailed out of there and went somewhere else for
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the rest of the year. But the deer I ended
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: up shooting is a deer that I nicknamed Curfew. And
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: then it's not everybody's fond of naming deer, but it
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: helps me keep track of him. And he showed up again.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I had pictures of him the previous winner, which would
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: have been and he showed up again in mid October Ober.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Just a horse and he's a clean eight point, but
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: he's got really long brow times about nine inches long,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and just real, real massive rack. But he was very recognizable,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: and like I said, I had a lot of encounters
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: with him during the regular archery season and then even
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: in the late muzzleloader season had some encounters. But is
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: one I always tell people, you know, the rut gets
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: all the gets all the news people always book their
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: hunts around the rut. You know, that's the time to
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: be in the woods. And I think it's just because
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: they see so many deer and they have sightings a
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: big deer. But I always tell people that if you
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: have not hunted that winter season, you're really missing out
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: because to me that is other than the very early
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: season that you can you can do in places like Kentucky.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I believe late season winter season is your best opportunity
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: to really pattern an older deer. And the reason you
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: can do that is because food is so is so
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: important to them. So in this case with kerr few Um,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the late muzzleload season gave me a chance to sort
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of scout him from a distance because I was just
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: sitting in a blind and I had these encounters, but
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I watched all his movements. I used that information and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: combination with my trail cameras that I had out there,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to really start narrowing down where I thought he was living.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: And those areas provided good cover and good betting. And
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: also there were soybeans in in those fields in the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: area I was hunting, so there was plenty, you know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: food for the deer to get to. Was actually drawn
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: in several deer from outside the area because I'm not
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: sure if the farmers equipment just wasn't very good at
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: what But there was an awful lot of beans left
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: in that field, and the deer were not only hitting
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: the beans, but they were also pulling up some of
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the decaying plant matter. As well, so it just sort
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: of became a hot spot. So I knew that eventually
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: if I if I could keep getting into that area
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: where I thought he was betting and feeding, that I'd
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: have a real good shot. So really it really wasn't
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: rocket science. The trick was just being able to get
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: in there without spooking the deer, so that whenever he
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: did get up and move, he'd come my way. And
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: you know, I would do other things that people might
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: find a little unusual too, and that is not go
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: running in there while it's still dark in the morning.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: You know, you can't see anything. You have no idea
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: where these deer betting. If you have open country like
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: you do in the wintertime, typically you can see a
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: long way. So I could just work my way up
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to my stand, slowly, glass all the areas ahead, and
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: make sure he wasn't bedded nearby, and then just get
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: into my stand. So if that was another tactic, I
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: think it would probably be a little different for what
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: most people would do. So anyway, just honed in on
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: him and eventually got my opportunity. And I'm probably making
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it sound more simple than it was, but at the end,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: it just comes down to drive and determination, and like
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I it told some buddies, I said, I don't think
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: there's anyone else out in Ohio hanging tree stands on January.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: So you know, you have to be willing to go
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: that extra mile if you want to shoot. Dear of
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: that age class, in that quality, and I'm just I'm
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: glad that have paid off. Yeah, yeah, I remember when
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I when I saw that you killed that buck, I
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: was kind of shocked, as I can't believe that he
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: was still hunting. I was. I was already in postseason mode.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: You know, we were done here January one, and I
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: completely forgot that you guys are still going down there. Um,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: and I'd filled my Ohio tag earlier, so I wasn't
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: thinking about Ohio. So that was That was pretty cool
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: to see, great Dear too, And it's cool to see
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: it all come together like that when you one of
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: my favorite things. You know, it's fun when you get
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: a bonus buck, you know, when you're hunting and a
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: buck shows up and it just happens. But I love
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: when you can actually put a specific plan in place
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: and actually have it come you know, turn out the
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: way you wanted to. That's doesn't happen all time, but
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: it's pretty awesomehen it does. Yeah, it rarely happens, frankly,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: you know something. Usually there's a twister turn in there
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: that you weren't expecting. Typically, But like you said, when
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: it does happen, it's incredibly satisfying. And it's hard enough
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: to be satisfied early with the year I had last year. Yeah,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: for sure. So do you have a dream buck this
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: year in Ohio? Is that one from the past couple
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: of years still around? You think? I hope. So, you know,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: that's an interesting deer as well that I actually passed
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: on that deer when he was a three year old
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: and he's a six year old now, assuming he's still
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: out there. But this is a deer that doesn't show
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: up on the property. And I should say I'm not
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: hunting any kind of a special management property or anything
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: like that. These are just essentially central central Ohio farmland bucks.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: And this deer seems to summer somewhere else on a
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: neighboring property and doesn't send a show up in my
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: area until late September early October. So if he's around,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: this is going to be a real monstrous type deer.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is a deer that has he already
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: has one eye gone from fighting and one of his
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: years are split and it just hangs there. So he's
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: a he's an old warrior. And I actually saw him
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: and got a little bit of film on him last
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: year early in the season, and to me that was
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: even just such a great privilege. So, uh, if he's
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: out there, I'd I'd love to chase him again. But
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: if not, I know that there are several others older
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: deer out there that would be more than happy to
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: hang it, hang a tag on. But this is the
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: exciting time of year. You're starting to get the pictures
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: and you're getting your gear ready, and so I'm getting
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I'm definitely getting fired up. It's almost the best time
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: here because the anticipation. Right now, anything's possible, you know,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: like all the hopes and dreams are still ahead of us.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: And as the season progresses, I become a slightly more
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: and more depressed with the fact that's not going to
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: go the way I wanted to do. But this, right now,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: it's all good. So I guess when you're not chasing
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: these big bucks, Nick, you're working with the National Deer Lions.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us, you know, we've talked a number
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: of times on this podcast about the National Deer Lions.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: You know, it launched. I think it was two thousand four, team, Um,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: but can you tell us a little bit about what
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: the National Deer Alliance is now? You know, if it's
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: changed at all since the beginning? Um, what that looks
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: like today? Sure? And I think it has changed quite
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: a bit since the beginning. I remember, much like you Mark,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: being at some of the early you know, the dear
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: summits and sitting there and listening to the folks talk
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: about what they thought the National Deer Alliance was going
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: to be. And even sitting there, I had questions in
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: my own mind, well, what is this group going to do?
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Who are they? Um? What will they do that the
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: other deer groups don't do? So at that time I
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: never saw myself eas and even as a candidate, you know,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: for the CEO job running running the organization. So it's
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: kind of funny that we ended up here now. But
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: I think a really important thing happened back in May
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of last year May, and that was they put together
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: a solid board of directors, people from within the outdoor industry,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: with a lot of experience who could really get the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: organization on the right track. That was key, and they
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: said that, you know, one of the things we're gonna
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: set out to do right off the bads, we're gonna
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: hire a CEO because we need somebody to own this
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: thing to actually do it, and we have to put
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: our plan in place. We can't just keep talking about
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: all the things we might do. We have to get
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: really strategic about this and do everything we can to
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: make this a successful organization to help deer and to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: help deer hunters. Frankly, and that's when I started to
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: become more interested in what was going on. And it
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: also was very important to me that this organization would
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: not be set up to compete with the existing deer organizations,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: and it's in fact, Mule Deer Foundation, White Tails Unlimited,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: and q d m A all have seats on the
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: board of directors. So in a lot of ways, the
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: existing deer groups really grew nd A out of their
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: own roots. So to me that was very important because
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the last thing we need is more competition and a
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: than a group to another group to just exists out
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: there for the sake of being around. So I think
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: that really set forth a lot of change with n
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: d A. And then very shortly after I came on board,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: we got together not just with our board of directors,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: but we brought in folks from around the country, different
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: level of expertise and experience to put together the first
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: strategic plan for NDA. And that was a really critical
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: moment for us because now it wasn't just conjecture and
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: talking about all the things we could do. Now we're
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: listing out the five or six key things that we're
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: going to focus on and work on. Again. The most
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: important thing on behalf of deer and deer Hunters, and
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: that was a great moment I think in the history
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: of the organization. I think we put together a really
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: good document and that set in motion really where we're
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: at today with with the organization, and that is we're
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: just about ready to start trying to drive up membership
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: numbers and get people excited about what we're doing. We
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: purposely haven't been doing that, so Mark, you haven't. You know,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: you and I worked together on this quite a bit,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: so you understand the frustrations of we want to yell
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: from the mountain about all the things going on with
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: the NBA, but we've purposely not been doing that, and
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about things we're
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: gonna be doing here in the future with the new
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: website launched go on. So that's that's kind of the
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: history of where we are, how we got to where
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: we are today. So so Dan, you know, use most
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: people listening and as you know, and obviously Nick, you know,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: like I work with the National Deer National Deer Lines
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: quite a bit, so I'm pretty familiar with what's going on.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: But I'm curious from an outside perspective, Dan, if you
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: can kind of sit in for our audience right now,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: what is like the big thing you what's your big
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: question mark around the National Deer Alliance. What are you
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: still confused about, if anything, about what they're doing or
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: where they're going. Well, not necessarily confusion, but what I
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: noticed is, you know, there's you know, the National Deer
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Alliance was pretty active for a while and social media
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: and then fell off, and I didn't notice it on
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: any social media platforms. I didn't notice it and really
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: any type of mega zines or any other media that
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I was consuming, and I was just kind of curious,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you know, like what's happening right now? You know, what
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: is this transition period that you guys are going through. Yeah,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and that's a great question, and I'm I'm glad you
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: asked it because I'm going to talk about I think
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: one of the frustrations I've had is the leader of
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: this group, and you know Mark has shared this and
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: that is it's not a frustration with any person. It's
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: just a frustration that we knew we had to purposely
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: kind of lay back a little bit until we got
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: our priorities in line, and also to try to help
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: clean up some of the things that happened at the
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: very beginning. And what I what I mean by that
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: is when you're launching a new organization and you really
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: don't know exactly what you're going to be, the tendency
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: is for people to say a whole bunch of things
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: about what you might do, and people remember that. So
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: some of the early press and information you were seeing
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: in our earlier website had a lot of incorrect information.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: So I'm a person likes to run ahead and you know,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: make some noise and get things done right away and
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: make things happen. But I knew the wrong thing to
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: do would be to try to drag a whole bunch
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: of people and have a whole bunch more media out
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: there about what we're doing. Before we really knew would
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: be detrimental in the long term, so we purposely laid
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: back a little bit until we got those priorities in order.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Now that we have them in order, we issued a
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: press release a little bit earlier this year that talked
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: about the priority areas, and those areas are wild deer conservation,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: so very clearly we're drawing the definition between wild deer
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: and not wild deer, so we're focused on wild deer conservation.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: We're gonna be focused on diseases. The big headliner there's
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: two headliners, really chronic wasting disease and e h D.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Especially this time you're the h D, so we're gonna
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: do a lot of work on those. Hunter access continues
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: to be a problem out there. We have shrinking opportunities
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: for people to go out and hunt deer, so we're
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: gonna work on that in the state and federal state
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: and federal land management. So the existing public land it's
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: out there, we want to make sure that that's the
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: deer aren't forgotten in the management aspects of those properties.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: So we want to have good places for people to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: hunt and um not remember all the ones already told you.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: So those are the really before the key ones, I'm sorry.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: The other one's predators and competitors. So increasing problems with
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: being able to control predators, which, as we all know,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: especially during fawning season, have a profound impact on deer um.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: That's a That's an area also where we run into
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of anti hunting issues. So people will say, well,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: nobody really comes out and tries to stop deer hunting. Well,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: if you really look at what they do is they
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: battle us around the fringes and they do things like
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: eliminate the opportunity for us to hunt coyotes or wolves,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Bob Cat's mountain lines, these types of things. So we're
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: gonna be working very hard on those issues to make
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: sure that we can manage predators and keep everything in
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: line out there for the betterment of deer and hunters.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: So those are the priority areas that we came out with.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: And then the next big step for us was to
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: launch a brand new website. And you know this is
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: one of I think one of the first conversations that
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Mark and I had over a year ago. Now was
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: the importance to get in this website launched, And I'm
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: happy to report that very soon we're about to launch
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: National Deerlines dot Com, the brand new version of that website.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: The old one has been taken down, the new one.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I've been actually today working on it pretty much every
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: minute of the day, trying to get it in line
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: with what we need. But that's an exciting time for
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: us because now we have our house in order, we
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: have a plan, We've already been working on some key things,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: and now we have a place to put all this
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: information and to invite people to come see it and
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: to hopefully join us, because membership is free, and ultimately,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: we can only be effective if we built up a
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: huge membership of people who are really interested in working
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: for deer and working for deer hunters. And that is
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: really the spirit of what NDA is all about. To
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: help us get this these important policy issues taken care
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: of on behalf of deer and hunters, and the only
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: way to do that effectively is this through grassroots and
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: by getting the voices of hunters and other deer enthusiasts
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: into the mix. So that's what we're all about and
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: we I really want to have a big sigh of
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: relief because we finally reached this point and it's and
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: it's an exciting time for us. How hard is it
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: to have a a nationwide organization and have kind of
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: a nationwide platform with maybe different parts of the country
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: finding different topics higher on a priority list than other
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: parts of the country. Yeah, and it's very challenging. You know,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I should have mentioned, you know, we work on behalf
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: of all deers, so we're talking white tails, mule deer, blacktail,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: choose deer, even key deer. So there are very different
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: issues all across the country, and even in the white
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: tail range state the state, you have different issues, different concerns.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And I've said one of the big challenges was that
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: every deer hunter has in their own mind a definition
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: of what they consider the perfect deer hunt or the
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: perfect deer hunting properties or situations. So it's very challenging,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: very different priorities across the country. I think the key
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: for us will be to make sure we understand where
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: we can be effective. Um a lot of different issues
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: going on, it would be very easy for us to
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: chase after everybody's personal deer issue. But we just can't
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: do that. We have to stand very close to our
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: key priority areas and be effective in those areas without
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: getting so broad that I'm constantly answering the phone for
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: example of you know, hey, can you come to our
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: community because we have this deer problem or that dear problem.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: It's not that we don't care about those, it's just
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: we have to be realistic in what we can accomplish.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: And that's the big reason why we did the strategic
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: plan to help us prioritize where those issues are. So
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: you know, of course a mule deer issue in Arizona
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: is very different than a white tail issue in New Hampshire,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: so big landscape out there. We just have to remain focused,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: rely on our partners, and hopefully grow a little bit
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: to be able to address as much as we can.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Still kind of related to that, I think one of
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: the big questions that a lot of people have both
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: when the NDA first launched and now I think as
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: we're in kind of our our second our relaunched, maybe
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: you might call it um why is there a need
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: for this organization? You know, because there's already you know,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: there's already qum A, I'm already a member of that.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: I'm already a member of Muliar Federation maybe or maybe
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: some already a member of White Tails Unlimited. Why is
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: there an NDA? What do you what are we doing
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: above and beyond these other groups? And that's a great question,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: and that's the question that I asked myself back whenever
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: NDA was first announced. And I think the biggest thing,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the biggest way we differentiate ourselves is that we are
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: really almost policy focused. So while the other organizations do
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: work on policy, the reality is their missions are much
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: more focused on conservation. They're a little more specific and
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: specific than we are. Meaning of course Mule Deer Foundation
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: is only focused on mule deer and they're doing a
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: lot of conservation work and raising money for habitat work
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: and these types of things, but they're not working full
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: time on policy. Same thing with q d m A,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you know, helping people manage their land better, healthier deer,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: healthier habitat, but not as much time as they would
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: like working on policy. White Tails Unlimited very much the
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: same way. We're gonna be focused on policy to help
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: those groups have the time that they need to be
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: focused on their conservation missions. You need both because, as
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I've said many many times, we've reached the time in
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: the country where the political science is more important now
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: than the actual biological science. So we can literally go
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: and sit in front of legislators and give them the
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: best science and say here's why we have to do this,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: but they may go another direction simply because public opinion
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: or political science drives them in that direction. So it's
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: a very very interesting time in wildlife management period, whether
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: we're talking deer or any other species for that matter,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: but deer being the most hunted species by far across
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: the country of all hunters. So we're talking about twelve
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: out of the fourteen million hunters, about twelve million or
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: fourteen million identify themselves as deer hunters. You can bet
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: that politics and policy is woven into the fabric of
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: everything deer hunting. Everything from how to manage them in
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: rural landscapes too, having a answer to people who don't
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: want you hunting deer, period. All of these things going
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: to the political science of this, and that's where NDA
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: is going to focus. So we're not going to try
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: to grow some large organization. We're not going to have
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: banquets and do those types of traditional fundraisers. We're going
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: to be small, but we're gonna be effective, and we're
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: gonna work directly on these issues, these policy issues, and
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: hopefully get the grassroots community, the deer hunter, the average
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: deer hunter out there, to jump in with us and
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: help us be effective. When you mean small, do you
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: mean a small organization or small in numbers, Well, that's
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: a great question because I think what well, definitely, what
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I mean by that is we we need to We
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: need huge numbers of deer hunters to join us. You know,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: history has shown that deer hunters about one percent of
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: them actually join an organization. That's very frustrating because I
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: said earlier about there's twelve million of them out there,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: but only one percenter joining. We need a whole heck
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: of a lot more of them than that to join us.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: And as I mentioned, the membership is free, so there's
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: really no barrier to joining. But organizationally, the last thing
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: I want to do is grow some gigantic organization that
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: costs the industry millions and millions of dollars just to
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: keep it around. I would much rather have a small
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: staff of just a few people that can be very
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: effective at rallying the grassroots roots, understanding policy, and being
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: effective on issues. So I just think that's a responsible
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: way to do this. I'm not saying that someday we
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: might not have you know, eight or ten employees. I
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: don't know that, we'll see where what the future holds.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: But in the near future, I think we can be
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: really effective for not a lot of money. And that's
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: in my mind, how I really prefer to operate. So
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: then here's here's my next question then that I'm assuming
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are asking, is what does that
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: look like? You know, you talked about the types of
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: action that the NDA, you're hoping the NBA is able
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: to take, the type of impact you're hoping it can have.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: How do you actually see that happening? You know, what
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: specifically will you and whoever is on the team going
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: to be doing and or whether or without the membership
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: to actually change policies. Sure, and I think there are
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: there are a few different arms of that. So clearly
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna need another person or two that can focus
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: on the actual policy, that can be expert in policy,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: that can understand what's going on in d C and
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: also understand what's going on the state house in Nebraska,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: for example. So we need help in that element of
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: the organization for sure. But another key part of it
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: is going to be marketing and communications. So having somebody
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: that can be continually working on getting the word out
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: to the membership, who will be active on the grassroots
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: ends of things, so putting out good information. We we do.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Actually I have to say not the pat us on
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: the back mark too much, but I think we do
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: a remarkable job of getting really good information out and
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: I think people would be shocked to know how small
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: of a team it is that does that. I think
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: we do a really good job, but I think that
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: we're only scratching the surface. So we need someone that
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: can really focus on getting the word out about an
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: issue that people need to participate in, um rolling their
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: sleeves up, and you know, helping us promote the organization frankly,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: to keep us healthy, to keep industry excited about investing
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: in US. So we constantly we have to prove ourselves
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: in terms of being an effective organization. We also have
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: to prove ourselves to legislators and decision makers because if
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: you know, I walk in the in the door to
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: a state house and say well, on behalf of my
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: ten thousand members across the country. They're gonna look at
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: me and laugh because that's not big enough. But if
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: we can go in and say on, behalf of our
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: two thousand members or even our million members, now all
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, we're gonna start having some heft on
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: some issues, and I think we're gonna get a little
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: better audience. So those are the two key areas. And
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: definitely we need more help on policy, and we're gonna
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: need help with marketing and communications. And I also just
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of growing. I've been an opportunity
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: to grow organizations and programs in the past, and I'm
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: a big fan of organic growth, where you just look
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: for opportunities as they come and you respond to those
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: opportunities and not always try to project what you're going
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: to be. So I don't want to necessarily build the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: framework out and try to fill it. I'd rather let
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: that happen more organically. Makes sense. I gotta I got
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: a question about that, and and this is from the
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: you Know you You mentioned only one percent of individuals
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: of the you know twelve million hunters are involved in
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: some kind of an organization similar to you know, the
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: National Deer Alliance. But we have you know, millions of
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: people on social media supporting UH a hunting television show
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: or or something like that. How important is it for
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: the leaders of the hunting community or the hunting industry too,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: you know, support UH, you know, an organization like this.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I think it's everything. I had opportunities to get shot
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: show and a t A show, several other shows this
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: year to stand up in front of industry and say, listen,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: you owe it to deer to stand up and be
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: part of this, meaning that you know, their bread is
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: buttered by deer. Like I said, of all hunters identified
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: deer hunters first. Now, they're definitely hardcore water fowlers and
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: bird hunters and even some predator hunters that type of thing.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: But really the industry is driven by deer and deer hunting.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: So if we begin to take for granted deer hunting
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: is always going to be out there and it's always
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: going to be wonderful, I think that's a fool's game
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: to play. And I've been very open and honest with
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: the industry about that, and you know what's been interesting
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: and has been really I think exciting for me is
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: that they get it. I've never heard a single person say,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: you know, this really isn't that important. I don't see
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: why I need to get involved in it. So I
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: think we have the support out there. I think that
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: some are sitting back just to see who we're going
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: to be ultimately and and see some of our successes,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: and that's fine, I understand that, But in terms of
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: why and why it's important, that's pretty clear, and in
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: groups to get it. And I think that ultimately we're
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: gonna be able to put the people in place because
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: we're gonna grow, you know a little bit, with help
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: of industry. So really, the whole, the entire hunting industry
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: really is driven by deer and every percentage point you
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: take away in terms of the number of deer hunters
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: that are that are out there takes away a percentage
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: point from the industry. And I don't think industry, for
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: sure is very interested in having that happen. Now. Just
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: to elaborate on that a little bit, and I don't
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: want to sound like an asshole, but I do so
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: often though, Dan, I know, but what I'm getting at
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: is some of these you know, you say you have
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the ear, and some of these guys are really interested
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: in supporting the you know, supporting a cause, but their
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: social media, their programming, whatever it is, does not that
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: does not translate to what I'm seeing. I don't see
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of television shows support a conservation cause or
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: uh or any type of media really other than you know,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: some print support a conservation cause because it's not giving
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: them a dollar amount on the on the back end.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: And you know when you say, yeah, we think we
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: have their ear, do you think that is just to
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: humor you or it's is it something that they're really
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: concerned about. Well, I should have probably separated it into
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: two baskets. But because I think what you're talking about
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: now is more or less the the celebrity hunting group
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: out there, the folks that have TV shows and you know,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: these types of people. I was more talking about people
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: that owned businesses to support the end of that are
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: supported by deer hunters. Yeah, and you can you can
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: loop that in as well. You don't see like when
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I go to a hunting website or I'm in a
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: catalog or or any place that a company may advertise,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: I don't see that company saying we support X conservation costs. Yeah,
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I understand what you're saying, and a lot
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: of a lot of those folks will only do that
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: if they're compensated directly in some way. But I'm pretty
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: excited to say and people will see this when they
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: go to the website. We've got a page on the
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: website that is just dedicated to supporters. I think people
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: are going to be pretty surprised by the long list
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: of pretty high profile people and companies that are supporting this.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: And to be honest, we have not given anybody a
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: dime to say we support the NBA and what it's
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: all about. So yeah, and my experience with other organizations
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: and having to try to raise money and this type
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: of thing is that usually they'll say it if you
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: pay them to say it. And we you know, we
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: may get into that at some point down the road,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: but the reality is that we've gotten kicked off here.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: We've got a really really impressive group of people, and
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: some of them that I haven't even had a chance
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to get on a website yet, that are excited about
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: this and understand the importance. So I actually am was
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: was impressed and continue to be impressed with the level
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: of excitement that there is out there for the NBA.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I think though, to your point, Dan, there's definitely a
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: difference between talking the talk and walking the walk. And
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: and I think, you know, you do see a whole
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: lot of people, um that are like, yeah, I support
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: ex Conservation Organization whatever, join now, but that's about it,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Like they aren't actually doing anything. They're not really talking
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: about a lot or trying to learn more or trying
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: to educate their audience and stuff. Um, Because like you said,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: maybe that's not you know, that doesn't drive viewership, that
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't drive numbers and all that kind of stuff. Now
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: that certainly there's I don't want to generalize those exceptions
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: to that rule. There's tons of people that are doing
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: a great job. And I think to to your point, Nick,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: I think there's there's some great examples of people that
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: are supporting or will be supporting the National Deer Lines.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: But I think, um, I think there's a lot of
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: room for more of it, um. And I've been trying,
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: you know, recently to try to do an even better
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: job here with Wired to Hunt, and I hope a
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: lot of other people are whatever platform you have to
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: try to use it for a positive, positive makeup, positive difference.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: And you know, like Nick said, we all depend on
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: deer and habitat and all these tremendous resources for what
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: we love to do, and if we don't do something
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: about it, if we're not taking care of it, we're
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: all out of luck. So, um, I think the responsibi
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: I just see the numbers right from a you know,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: from a pure number standpoint. I see the numbers on
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: social media. I see the numbers on you know, some
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: of these web shows and whatnot, and it just takes
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit of redirection over to let's say, a
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: National Deer Alliance saying, hey, it's very easy to do
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: and just sign up and you can help save deer hunting,
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: right you can help, you know, keep tradition alive. And
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm not seeing that, Yeah, And I think
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: part of it. I'm gonna put part of that responsibility
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: on my shoulders too, because I I have to continually
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: develop relationships with these folks and they have to have
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: a comfort level that number one, that I'm steering the
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: ship appropriately, but number two that this is a group
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: they want to get behind because there is a little
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: risk on their part as well to get tied up with,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: you know, with the wrong things. So I understand some
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: of the trepidation. But I'll just share a couple of
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: examples that were just fresh today of where I needed
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: a little bit of help from from a couple of
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: these folks and got it immediately. So earlier today is
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: we're putting the finishing touches on this website. Uh, you know,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: I was able to call up Mike hunt Sucker of
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Heartland bow Hunter and say, Mike, can I get a
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: quote from you? You know on y Nda? Is important
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: why you support in the photo because I'd like to
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: highlight that on the website. I mean, absolutely anything you need.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: And immediately I got a quote I had had a
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: picture sitting there. Did the same thing today with with
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Dr Grant Woods, who has Growing Deer dot Com and
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: you know, Dr Woods certainly very well respected in our
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: community and absolutely happy to thank you. He actually said
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: thank you for allowing me to help support n d A.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: So part of that comes back to relationships that I
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: have with these individuals. But I think part of it
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: too is that they believe in what we're doing and
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: can personally get excited about it. But those are just
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: two very recent examples, and I can count many many
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: others over the last several months where I've had very
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: similar interactions. So, um, I think there's hope. I mean,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: they could always do more. But but maybe we from
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: the conservation or organization conservation organization community didn't ask you.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe we just assumed we wouldn't get help. So so far,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: my experience has been d percent positive, and I'm hoping
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: that we can continue in that direction. Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: And those are two previous Wired Hunt podcast guests too,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: so job on their part. Um. So I want to
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: talk issues, you know, I actually want to talk about
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: some of the things that are that you they're keeping
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: you awake maybe at night, that you're thinking about that
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: you see as something that a that you need to
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: be thinking about and concerned about as the leader of
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: the National Deer Lines. But also is us just everyday
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: deer hunters that we need to be aware of? Um,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: is there anything in particular that that's really top of
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: mind for you right now? Yeah? I mean I think
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: there're a couple of apathy in general, is one that
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: keeps me up at night because I worry that not
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: enough people keep up with the issues or even for
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: that matter, understand how so many different issues impact deers.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: So that's a big part of why NDA was formed
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: to try to improve the apathy situation among hunters. But
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: you know, there are a tag x on our on
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: our hunting sports every day that people don't even realize
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: everything from you know, you may, for example, you may
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: look at a situation where an airline doesn't allow certain
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: African trophies to be brought back into the country, and
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: you may say, well, how does that impact a deer hunter?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Has nothing to do with me. Maybe I even oppose
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: African safari hunting, for example. But people need to realize
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: that there's the very next step, The very easy step
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: would be to say, well, you know, we're actually not
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: going to allow you to fly any animal parts around
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: the country. You're not gonna be able to bring your
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: antlers back from a Western hunt if you go Western
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: or vice versa um or you know, we're not going
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: to allow you to fly with with your firearms or
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: your bows and your you know, your bows and arrows
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: and your hunting equipment. It is not a very far
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: stretch to get to that point next. So people need
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: to really be aware of these things going on that
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: constantly is I'm talking about lobbying legislators about promoting our
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: sports and promoting good conservation, there's another group of people
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: out there that are doing the act opposite against us,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: and it's all the time, and frankly they've been quite
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: effective at it. So I think just apathy and understanding
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: that our sports are always in danger from that type
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: of thing, especially now in the political environment that we're in.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Disease is another big issue. Chronic wasting disease continues to
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: pop up in different places across the country. And if
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: you look at Arkansas this year, there's a state where
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: going into the year they thought they didn't have c
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: w D. A few months later, dozens and dozens of
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: cases of it and everywhere they test their finding it.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: That's scary. That's very scary. We need to understand that
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: disease better. I'm not going to say we know, we
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: have all the answers, but I will say that people
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: need to be concerned about it. It's very very disappointing
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: to me when I see, uh, you know, some people
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: come up, people that there's that that I think are
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: smart people, but have some financial stake in the game,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: so they'll come out and say, Oh, chronic wasting disease,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: that's not something and we should worry about. It's not
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: it's not rarely hurting our dear populations. Well, you know what,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: I hope that's the case. I hope that's the case,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: but the science does not tell us that Right now.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: What I would rather have people saying is, you know what,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: is a community we need to come together and figure
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: this disease out, because if we are talking about something
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: that has the potential to start wiping out herds and
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: dramatically decreasing herds, then that's something we all need to
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: be concerned about, all the way up from industry down
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: to the person that just likes to go out and
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: set on a stump once a year and wait for
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: a deer to walk by. So the disease issue is
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: one for me that we're gonna spend a lot of
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: time on it. We're gonna understand it better, and that's
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: a hopefully we'll be able to attract the types of
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: dollars we need to do more research that we understand
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: just what we need to do to keep our herds
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: safe out there. So those those two keep me up
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: at night. And I just I think all of that
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: gets tied back to apathy and a big reason why
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: NDA was formed. So there's a lot on our plate
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: for like I said, a very what is a very
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: small organization you know at this very moment. Yeah, So
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: on that disease front, um, you know, I know that
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: you've been quite busy traveling to a lot of different
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: gatherings of of great minds and conservation and biology and
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: in the dear world and everything that, whether it be
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: related to disease or a whole bunch of different things
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: in general. But I'm just curious on the disease front,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: are there any updates or news or is there anything
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes that you can share us
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: in regards to progress and research on CWD or we
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: are we coming to understand anything better, whether it be
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: about the disease or how to handle it. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I think we are. I think it's it's top of
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: mind of more organizations now than it ever was. Certainly
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: more state agencies are becoming aware of it and worried
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: about things like transferring deer in and out of their states,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: certain deer parts, and all these things that could spread
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: the disease, so it's definitely part of just about every
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: deer conversation. I was just at the Mule Deer Working
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Group meeting out in Cody, Wyoming. We spend an awful
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: lot of time talking about chronic wasting disease in particular.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Um As you know, there are a lot of different
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: places where mule deer, for example, are trapped in one
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: area where they're abundant to areas where there aren't so many,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: and there are risks associated with that. So it's no
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: longer that we just we just do that without without
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: second thought. Now we try to put all the best
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: practices in place before we do those types of things.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: There's also a lot of work being done to try
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: to develop a live test for for c w D.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: One of the problems is the most effective test by
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: far is the one that happens post mortem, so unfortunately
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: then you end up having to kill a deer or
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: come across a dead deer before you can test it.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: So hopefully we can generate more dollars to come up
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: with a live test, which I think would certainly be
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: very helpful to the cause as well. So yeah, I
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: think it's the top of mind and more places across
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: the country. It's generating a lot headlines. There's a group
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: that we work very closely with called the c w
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: D Alliance that you can go to their website. It's
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: a cw D Alliance dot com, I believe, and there's
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: all kinds of information about what we know about c
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: w D and also recent outbreaks. So, um, yeah, I
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: think we're talking about at at appropriate levels now and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: we have to continue until we can figure it out.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: How close are we to an event? And I know
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: this would be hard to prove, you know, there's no
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: scientific information to back this statement, but how how close
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: are we to a catastrophic event where all of a
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: sudden all the deer die because of a c w
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: D Well. I think a catastrophic event with c w
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: D is that's not a realistic thing because that's not
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: how the disease works. It's more of a marathon, you know,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: certainly than a sprint, you know. So for example, a
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: deer could carry c w D for several years and
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: not die. It could it's like most likely going to
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: die from a hunter's bullet before it dies of c
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: w D. But all the while this deer, this infected
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: deer is out there walking around. It's depositing prions and
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: the soil interactions with other deer, and spreading that disease
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: onto other deer that that may die quickly. You were
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: really trying to learn more now about what's happening in
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: certain populations where cw D has been prevalent for a
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: long time. Are we seeing large percentage drops in populations
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: in those areas? So you know, c w D isn't
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: something that you wake up in the morning and say, oh,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: we found out a hundred and fifty deer were found
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: out of c w D. But it happens over time.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the challenges for those
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: of us that work on the diseases that we don't
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: have the one big event, you know, the smoking gun,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: if you will, and that's hard to get Unfortunately in
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: this day and age where a headline reading society, it's
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: hard to get headlines and get people motivated, you know,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: because of the just the nature or the disease. Now
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: on on top of that, though, how much you know
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: the research that is being done, and you you mentioned
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: that at times it can be hard to grab the
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: ear of somebody, you know, to let them know, hey,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: this is a big deal, this is very important. Um,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: how much information out there, maybe I don't want to say,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: is being ignored but just not important at this time.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: I think because of in some ways a lack of information,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: it's very easy for for some people to say things like, well,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: you know, c w d's kind of everywhere, and eventually
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: it will you know, stronger strains of deer will come along,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: and it will eventually just disappear. Okay, So if somebody
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: says something to that effect, and I'm just I'm just
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: the guy that likes to go out and hunt a
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: handful of times a year, it becomes very easy for
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: me to want to believe that line of thinking. So
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say, well, eventually it's probably gonna go away.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have to worry about it, because none
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: of us want to have to worry about crisis or
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: problems like that. So those people that have sort of
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: taken that platform tend to be very effective in getting
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: people on their side, if you will, if they're our sides,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: you know, I hate to say they are sides, but
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: that way of thinking that, oh, it's not really a problem,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: that deer hunters need to worry about. Um, that's a challenge.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: It is a problem that we need to worry about.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: It's a problem we need to understand more. And when
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: when people it's just general nature we all want to
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: follow the good news, right that all this is something
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: that will eventually go away. UM with c w D,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: that's unfortunate because it is something we should be concerned
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: about and want to learn more about. And I just
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: I really worry about the mixed messages out there that
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: the people are getting. I think that's one place that
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: NDA can be very helpful, and that is getting the
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: best science of lable in putting that information out to
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: the public so that they understand it and hopefully allowed
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: them to make, you know, a good decision in terms
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: of their own feelings on the disease and why they
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: should be concerned about it. Yeah, it's a tough one
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: because too you know, as you mentioned, it's it's not
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: the type of disease that's going to result in big
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: headlines of some catastrophic event that gets everyone's attention. It
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: is a very like you said of Marathon's a very
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: slow moving disease and that you know, it can take
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: you know, we had Russ Mason, the director over the
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: the head of the Michigan DNR, and he was talking about,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: you know the long term nature of the disease, but
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: how the impacts are very significant when you get out,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: you know, many years out from that initial outbreak. UM.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: You know, when you look at some of these states
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: out west where they've been aware of c dB D
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: for a number of decades now, and you have some
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: areas in Wyoming I think where the majority of deer
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: in certain areas are infected with the c w D
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: and a result of that is that you don't have
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: old deer. You have deer that are dying after two
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: or three years. And you're gonna start seeing issues where
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: populations do reduce, where age structure is impacted significantly, and
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: who knows, you know, sixty years from now, maybe we
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: will be seeing what is a catastrophe when you look
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: at it from two thousand sixteen two, when our kids
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: are growing up and trying to teach their kids to hunt.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: I think this is one of those things that, UM,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: while we might not see massive short term impacts, we
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: need to be thinking about our children and grandchildren and UM,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: what we can do to make sure that we leave
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: things better for them. Yeah, and I think he did
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: a great job of some some of that up. I mean,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: as I said earlier, if you even just start having
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: small percentage declines in population, there is a rippling effect
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: that that has. So again i'll put my but I'll
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: say just a not a hunting enthusiast. I'm just I'm
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: just sort of a guy that likes to get out
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: in hunt every once in a while, Okay, maybe four
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: or five days a year. Now instead when I go
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: out there and I'm used to seeing six or eight
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: deer on average, when I'm out there now, I'm seeing
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: maybe zero or maybe one or two deer. All of
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: a sudden, my interest level maybe starts to wane a
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: little bit. Other things become priority, and it doesn't take
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: very long before you say, yeah, you know, I don't
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: really need a hunting license this year. And now all
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, you're not hunting, your children probably aren't hunting.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: And it's just that rippling effect that you were talking about, Mark,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: and that is that's something we need to be concerned about.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: So it's not even about losing all of the deer.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: It's having populations that are so low that even the
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: idea of of hunting them and the whole uh, you know,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: the spirit of the chase, if you will, starts to
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: decline in the minds of the American hunter. That has
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: profound impacts on the hunting economy and all the all
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: the related you know economy out there with you know,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: this just relates to people going on hunting trips and
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: buying equipment, and so it's it's a much scarier issue,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: I think than than somewhat have you believe. So it's
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: hard to have a conversation about c w D without
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: talking about the commercial captive deer and deer breeding industry.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: What is your take on what's going on in that
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: world today is do we need to be concerned about
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: some things? In your opinion, yeah, I mean I think
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: there's things to be concerned, But I mean, if the
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: first thing for me is and I think a lot
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: of people initially, especially in the deer breeding industry, thought
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: that NDA was being created to be the anti deer
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: farming organization, and that's not true. We're focused on wild
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: deer period, but there are certainly things that happened, you know,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: on some of these operations that do impact wild deer
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: and wild deer conservation. We need to learn more about
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: disease and why does it pop up, Why why does
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: it tend to pop up on these captives in these
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: captive situations. We need to understand that better so that
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: they can do their business better and so that we
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: can understand how to protect our wild deer Number one,
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: I mean there are other things too. There are you know,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: the general we have the luxury or privilege I guess
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: of knowing that about seventy plus percent of the people
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: out there respect or accept the idea that deer hunting
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: is an deer hunting is an acceptable way to manage populations.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: But that same group of people, if you pull them
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: and say, well, what do you how do you feel
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: about essentially walking into a small enclosure and shooting an animal? Now,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get a lot of favorable reviews
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: on that type of thing. I think that type of
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: practice impacts impacts wild deer and wild deer hunting. It
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: impacts it in the eyes of people who are watching us.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: It impacts us in the in the eyes of the
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: people that vote and really control our sport. Being the
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: deer hunters don't control. I mean, we control our sport
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: to an extent, but we're only you know, in terms
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: of total population, we're like five percent maybe, where all
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: these other people are the ones that have the votes
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: and will make the decisions. So uh, you know, growing
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: far beyond what would be natural antlers on these deer,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: you know, genetically engineering them, uh you know to me,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: for me, that's that's a problem for for you know,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: because this is a wild animal. This is a wild
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: animal that we all see and interact with every day,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: and I think some of those things could could certainly
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: shed a negative light on on on our wild deer herds,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: on hunting those of us who are excited about deer.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's an industry that we need
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: to we need to find a way to work with,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: but in a way that most importantly, the most important
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: thing is that we do accomplish wild deer conservation. And
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: whether it's a captive deer industry or some other industry
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: that impacts that, we have to be aware of it,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: and we have to be willing to step forward and
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: force our opinion. For sure. Yeah, I was. I was
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: really glad to see um that the National Deer Lines
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: is making a clear articulation and that our goal is
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: to focus on wild deer and wild deer conservation. UM.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: And to your point, you know, we're not you know,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: the ENDIA is not necessarily anti anything else. It's just
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: very pro wild deer conservation and making sure that decisions
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: are made and UM the information is being looked at
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: that keeps that top priority in mind and and for
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: me personally, that's very important. UM. I've got strong opinions
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: about some of these things, and UM, I just you know,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: to the point of everything we've been talking about here, right,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: this is such a tremendous animal and privilege we have
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: to be able to hunt it and to be around
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: these these populations of animals and chase them and do
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: all the crazy things we do. There's so much fun
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: and so impactful on us and help us feed our families.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: And it's something that's so easy to take for granted,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: but we just can't and we have to be careful
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: about some of these other things going on that could
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: impact that. UM. It's kind of thing I definitely think about.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: It's nice to see that you know that there are
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: people taking a stand there and keep an eye in
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: the price yeah, And I think what we're taking a
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: stand for is we're taking a stand for doing everything
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: we can to protect wild deer. And I, you know,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I know people that have deer farms. I've been on
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: deer farms, and they are what I when I look
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: at and say, man, these people are doing everything they
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: possibly can to do this the right way. And I
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: think that probably speaks for a high percentage of that group.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: But there are a lot of bad actors as well,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: and I think even I think the people that are
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: doing it right are doing it the best way that
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: they can possibly do it also when we as bad
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: actors out as well, because they understand what the impact
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: could be. So I certainly don't want to say, you know,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: we're you know, against against all of this and the
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: people they are all bad actors and not doing it right.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: But it's something that we need to continually be concerned about,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: learn more about, and try to work with that group
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: the best we can to protect our wild deer. Yeah. Absolute, uh, Dan,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: are there any issues? What's keeping you up at night?
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: What else? Any of these things are these are things
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: you've been thinking about as a you know, as our
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: as our every man hunter or what else, you know,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: when it comes to I can understand, you know. For
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: for me, I'm I'm passionate about deer hunting. I want
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: to see it be passed on a generations. But I
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: can understand from where I sit on a daily basis
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: how it's not the first thing on your mind every
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: day because it's you know, it's you got family, family,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: you got jobs, you got you know, oh shit, I
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: gottam ow my yard tonight. I mean so even the
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: simple things like that have to be can at times
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: come before the last thought of the day is Okay,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: what's the National Deer Alliance? Should do I take time
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: to do that? Or do I take time to uh,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: you know, go do something else with my family, or
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: you know, read a magazine or you know whatever it
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: is that that you do. So I think that there
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: has to be some kind of change out there for
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: guys like I guess I would say, like me too,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: absorb this this information and really get the grasp that, hey,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: you need to be a part of this. There's no
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: you know, there's no there's no half acid it anymore.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: You're either in or you're out, because if you're out,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: you're not helping anybody you're not helping yourself, because there's
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: a time and it could be closer than what we
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: think where all this goes bye bye. Yeah, you know,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: and I and I hate to look at it as
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: you know, you're in and you're out. I understand that
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: sentiment for sure, But we I think what we're asking
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: for is we need to we need at least a
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: little bit of your time some of the time, and
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: that even that will make a huge difference. So I
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: don't expect that every time we send out our weekly
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: on Watch newsletter that everybody's going to read it. But
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: I do expect to a certain percent as will read it,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: and maybe you'll read three out of five or even
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: two out of four, and you may get an issue
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: sent to your right to your email from NDA because
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: there's something happening in your area. I do expect that
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: when that does hit your inbox, that you're willing to
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: at least click a few buttons and send a letter
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: off to your legislator saying how you feel about an issue.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: And I think that's part of our responsibility to n
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: d A and not I'm not I'm not trying to
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: give you Generally, people aren't lazy. They're just busy doing
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: all kinds of things that you mentioned. I don't want
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: to give them a pass, but the reality is we
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: need to make it as easy as possible as we
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: can for them to do to participate at the grassroots level.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: And that is and that's one of the reasons why
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: we're virtual. By the way that we're we exist online
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: and communicate in that in that manner, is because we
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: want to be able to just send you, hey, here's
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: the issue. If if you're interested in weighing in and
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: contacting your legislator, you just simply click here. It will
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: give you who your legislator is. If you want to
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: adjust the letter a little bit, you can and then
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: you click send, and now you've participated in the process,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: and you've probably done that in less than ten minutes.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: So we need to make it as easy as possible
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: for very busy people who don't necessarily have deer at
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: the top of their mind, especially throughout the entire year,
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: and we need to make it easy for him to
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: participate in that. And that's I look at that as
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of the responsibility of not just n DA,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: but the other deer organizations that we work with I
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: just you know, there's obviously there's people out there who
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: are have different levels of UM involvement in any type
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: of topic. But I just I just feel that, you
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: know how if someone says, hey, we want to take
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: your guns away, there's a gigantic uproar about you know,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: a certain group of people that they get fired up
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: about wanting to take guns away. I just feel that
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: as of right now. You know, if someone told me, hey,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: we're gonna take away the right to uh hunt or
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: reduce the right to hunt, or you're you're not going
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: to be able to hunt on all the lands that
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: you used to be able to hunt on, that fires
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: me up. And that's for me why I wanna like
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: I like you said, I want to screw it from
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: the mountaintops telling people to get their asking gear. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: well I think that's the that's the biggest difference I
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: think between deer and hunting issues and Second Amendment issues.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: So Second Amendment issues, you hear it talked about on
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: national television every day, you know, both parties at every election. Uh,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: you know, people do believe that there that they may
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: have it may lose that right where deer hunting they're
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: not talking about it, you know, in presidential debates, or
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: it rarely would come up with, especially in the national
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: news or anything like that, so people don't have that
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: sense of something being taken away, and that's where the
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: apathy comes in again. I think most people think that
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: deer hunting in general is well, it's pretty safe. We
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: don't have to worry about it. So I don't want
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: to say that to challenge. But that's one of the
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: reasons why you see groups like the n r A,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: for example, generates so many members and so many really
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: passionate members, is they really feel that pressure that this
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: could happen to me, and it could happen really quickly.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: Not so much with the dear hunting world. There are
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: issues and it's frustrating that people don't pay more attention
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: to it. But I think that if tomorrow one of
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: the you know, one of the presidential candidates come out
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: and said, one of the first things I want to
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: do is make sure dear seasons are cut back to
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: three days a year, then I think you would probably see,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: you know, that type of outcry from people people that
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: don't even hunt deer, by the way, because deer impact
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: so many people just like guns do. I mean, n
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: r A has a nice percentage of members of people
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: who don't even own guns just because they're passionate about
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: not having a right taken away. So a little bit
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: of a different situation. But you know that's that's not
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: an excuse for deer hunters. We just we need to
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: know more and you need to do better. And the
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: certainly are issues that could impact us. It might not
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: be someone cutting our seasons down to three days, but
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: it could be, you know, like we talked about, it
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: could be populations declining. It could be disease issues. It
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: could be uh, you know, losing access. It could be
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: you know, not having the ability to bow hunt within
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: city limits in some areas, like there's a there's a
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: lot of different things, UM that you know, we as
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: hunters can and should be paying attention to UM. And
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, without us stand here preaching UM.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: I just I feel like if you are passionate enough
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: about deer hunting to be listening to a podcast about
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: deer hunting, like you like it so much that you're
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: driving home right now, or you're on the treadmill listening
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: to a couple of googers like us talk about deer.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: If you're that passionate about deer hunting, you should also
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: be passionate about trying to protect deer and deer hunting
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: and you know, help improve the situation. And whether it
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: be with the National Deer alliones or with a local group,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: or with just going up behind the house and planning
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: some trees or talking to your neighbor about know why
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: deer hunting is a positive thing or whatever it might be.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: I think we all owe it back to the resource
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: into you know, the generations to come to to try
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: to do more than just take you know, don't just
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: enjoy hunting and eat deer and have a great time
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: with it, but give back a little, you know. And
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways to do that. But I think, um,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: we should all, at least on my opinion is we
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: should all try to do a little like that. Something
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah. Absolutely, And I you know, we're not
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: asking for a lot here. But whenever we started our
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: strategic planning session and I had all these people sitting
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: in front of me, the first thing I did was
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: I put up a picture of whenever I was young,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: and it was a picture of my dad and my
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: uncle in the back of my dad's pickup truck and
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: the beach had shot back on opening day in Pennsylvania.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: This is probably back in or something like that. I said,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: every one of us has this picture. It's burned in
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: our mind. It represents who we are in terms of
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: deer hunters, in that passion, and I asked them, as
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: we go through this process, I want you to keep
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: your personal picture in your mind and remind yourself what
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: has this sport done for me? What have deer done
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: for me personally? How have they helped shape my life?
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: And even if you're just sort of a weekend warrior,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: because out a few times a year, they have impacted
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: your life and you've had experiences in the outdoors that
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: are you just can't get anywhere else. And I think
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: that's just what I would ask all deer hunters to do,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: is put that picture in your mind. You know what
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: was that feeling? You know what were you feeling? And
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: could you imagine yourself not having that opportunity, or your
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: children not having that opportunity and their children not having
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: that opportunity. And you know that little exercise tends to
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: get get people's juices flowing a little bit, the emotions flowing,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: and that's what we're talking about here. It's not a
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: scare tactic and we're not trying to generate controversy. We're
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: talking about protecting an animal and protecting sport that has
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: done so much for so many people. It's just a
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: real responsibility that we all share and I'm hoping that
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: NDA can be the conduit to making that happen. Yeah,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: absolutely so. So for those listening, what can they do
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: to uh, to engage with the n d A or
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: two to be a part of this positive change that
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: that you and the team are trying to create. The
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: very easy, easiest thing you can do is sign up
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: and become a member good our brand new website, National
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Tier Alliance dot com and barring some catastrophe between now
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: and the time you hear this, the website will be
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: there and all you do is you you provide us
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: your email address and at a minimum your zip code,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: and we'll be able to alert you to all the
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: issues that are going on out there. But also you'll
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: get our newsletter every week that I know Mark especially
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: works so hard on and and then read it. Most
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: of the time, you don't have to read it all
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: the time, but read it occasionally, share with your friends,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: get them to sign up. I think that's the first thing.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: Be aware of the issues. Sign up. It's free, doesn't
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: cost you a thing, And I think just educate yourself
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: and be more willing to give yourself even just a
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: few more minutes time to think about during a day
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: than what you normally would. And that alone, I think
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: will be a huge step for not only the NBA,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: but for deer and for hunting, and anybody can do that.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: And it's it's easy to sign it. And if and
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: if you don't even want the newsletter anymore, you can
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: still become a member and you can always opt out
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: of the newsletter if you just get tired of seeing it,
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: although I don't know why you would because so much
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: good stuff in there. You can still be a member
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: and we can still alert you whenever there's an issue
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: that need to be concerned about. So we need a
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: million members to sign up for that thing. And that's
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: that's what I want to really drive towards. Well. I
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: think I think there'll be a lot of people that
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: would benefit from, just like you said, just being a
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: little more aware of some of the issues and the
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: resources that the NDA is putting out there you know already,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: and there's so much more to come, I think, with
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: a new website and the tools that would be available,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: but already just you know, putting out you know, updates
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: and all these things that have been going on. I mean,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: it's it's interesting, you know, given the fact that you know,
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: I work on this stuff, I had no idea before
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: how much is going on related to deer across the
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: country year in and year out. I mean all through
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: the year. In April, in January, in June, there are
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: things being decided on in city council meetings or in
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: state you know, legislators or everywhere there are things going on.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: The impact dear, the impact deer hunters, and uh, I
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: think a lot of the times we as hunters, we
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: have no idea that stuff is going on, um and
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: then since we don't know, we can't ever raise our
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: voices to to say something about it. So that's a
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: great first step. But just to be in the game, yes, right,
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: be in the game. At any one time, I could
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: find you a hundred bills that across the country that
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: in one way or another impact deer hunting. I don't
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: expect people to do that same thing and understand all
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: that that's our job at the n d A. So
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: read the newsletter, occasionally jump in when we ask you
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: to to send letters or contact the right people. I
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: think that alone will make a big difference. Agreed, Well, Nick,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: I think this is uh, this is exciting stuff. I'm
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: excited personally too to see where things are going to
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: go in the future. I think we're at a great trajectory.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to check out the new website here very
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: shortly and uh, good stuff ahead, right, Absolutely, I appreciate
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: the opportunity, love what you guys are doing, and keep
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: spreading the word. Thank you, absolutely well, good luck this season, Nick,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: I hope we have some some more exciting Dear stories
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: from you in the coming months. Same here. Good luck
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: to you guys as well. All right, and with that,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap this episode up now. Like we discussed,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: be sure to check out the new National Dear Lions
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: dot Com which is now live online and become a member.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: It's free and you'll be updated on all sorts of
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: great stuff. Moving on, we do need to thank our
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: partners who helped make this podcast possible, and if you
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: have a few free seconds, maybe you could send them
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: a thank you too on Facebook or Twitter or something
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: like that. So big inks to sick A Gear Trophy,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: Ridge Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Hunter a, maps, Ozonics, Carbon Express, Arrows,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: Maven Optics, and the White Tail Institute of North America.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: And finally, thank you all for joining us today and
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: for tuning in every week. I really sincerely appreciate it,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: and I hope this episode gave you some new insight
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: to consider in regards to a role as deer hunters
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: and conservationists. And finally, I hope you'll stay wired to
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: hunt