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The Study of Eternal Security Part 5 | Simply Christ Ministries · Simply Christ Podcast

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Christ podcast hosted by Leon Martin, along with Aaron Keaton,
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Melvin Martin, Andrew Schrock, and Dan Blatz.
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Let's get right to it. So anyway, I guess we'll get
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started formally, right? Yeah.
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So thanks for being on here. The guys we're missing a couple
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guys. Like I was just saying, Dan is
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in Mexico on his way to Mexico. He's going to be teaching at a
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men's men's conference or a men's retreat of some sort down
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there for a week and going to be down there.
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So he won't be on this week or next.
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I don't know what happened to Melvin.
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He probably slept in or something.
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I don't know. He'll be back anyway, so we'll
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get going on this subject. We've been talking about how our
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security works and how that all that all plays out in real life
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here. Andrew, would you open us with a
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word of prayer before we get started?
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Yeah, I let's pray God, we thank you so much for all the
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direction and guidance that is in the word that we're going to
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actually be established and have a sure foundation.
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I pray that we do a good job in representing you this morning in
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Jesus name, Amen. Amen.
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Yesterday I was driving anyway. Somebody was saying that, you
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know, our national debt passed $40 trillion here whatever a
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couple weeks ago or whatever. And he said like a lot of people
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don't have any concept of what a trillion dollars is.
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And then he was saying an interesting thing.
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He said that ever since if if when Jesus walked the earth, a
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person would have spent $1,000,000 a day per day until
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now for 2000 / 2000 years spend $1,000,000 a day, he still would
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not have spent $1 trillion. Oh my goodness.
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We're and we're forty of those in debt.
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That is unreal. I don't know.
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I don't know if that's true. I didn't, I didn't check to see
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if that actually would calculate out, but yeah.
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Oh, if you see how they're finding corruption and how that
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people are just throwing millions around daily, imagine
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all the things that are not caught, you know?
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Yeah, makes you wonder. And I, I didn't know.
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I didn't know who who this 40 trillion is is borrowed from.
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But it's actually 80% of that is borrowed from the American
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public. Really.
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I'm assuming from investments like if you have money invested
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and there's, there's that pool, you know, there's, I'm sure
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there's a lot of people that have millions and millions of
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dollars invested in like stock market or I don't know how that
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works if government borrows against that or how that works.
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I thought China. China owns US.
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China, our good friends over in China giving us all this money
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and I don't know if they if they pay, I'm assuming they probably
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have to pay pay interest on it, I would imagine.
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Yeah, that's what that's what they say.
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The interest is higher than what?
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Yeah, the the amount of money we spend in interest payments is
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insane. But you know, we're live in a
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big world too, where I know if they would just do a few
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biblical apply a few biblical principles in the in Washington,
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the debt could be quickly, you know, taken care of.
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There's because there's a lot of money there and it's just a lot
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of bad decisions and people that like wars, I guess so.
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Yeah, that's, that's true. Yeah, I don't know, I don't
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know. I, we, we were looking about
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talking about it last night a little bit.
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And China is the next largest, you know, debt country that has
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debt and they're like 88 trillion or something like that.
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So anyway, the, the dollars per per capita, you know, per person
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that lives in that country, we're similar with other
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countries in on that respect. It's just that we have, we have
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a lot, a lot of people. So anyway, that was a little
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detour. I thought that I thought that
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was interesting. That was a neat way of looking
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at what a trillion dollars is, or even less than a trillion.
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I mean, because $1,000,000 a day, you'd think that it add up
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pretty quick. But yeah, a good.
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Job. Yeah, you would know what to do
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with that kind of money anyway. Yeah, that would be something.
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Hey, we are going to go to Galatians 5.
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We are. I want to talk about a verse
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there real quick and I'll find it in my Bible here because I
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want to I want to look at the context as well.
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Galatians 54 says Christ is become of no effect unto you.
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Whosoever of you are justified by the law.
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We are fallen from grace. And so I want to, I want to just
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kind of look at at what that, so to get back on the on track of
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what we're talking about, we're talking about the different
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views that are held by the majority of the Christians as to
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how our relationship with Christ is, is maintained regarding
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salvation. We talked about, you know, the,
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the classic one saved, always saved or unconditional
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salvation. We talked about the, the
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Reformed perseverance. I would say it's kind of a view
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where we know that somebody is elected.
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It's going to go to heaven because God preserves them.
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It's all on his side. We don't really play any part in
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that. He decides or decides not to.
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And then we discussed the conditional security, which is
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where we on this Bible study kind of hang our hat.
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The condition is as long as we continue in faith, we are one of
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God's children. That's that's kind of what we
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look. Look at.
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We talked about quite a few different verses.
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But anyway, I'm just just this one verse.
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There'd be a lot more that that a guy could talk about.
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But talking about Galatians 5, we're going to read verse one
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now through through. Verse 4 says this, Stand fast
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therefore in the liberty wherewith God hath made us free,
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and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
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Behold, I Paul, say unto you, that if ye be circumcised,
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Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man
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that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
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Christ is become of no effect unto you.
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Whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from
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grace. So to me this this piece of
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scripture here in Galatians makes it very clear that God has
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has 1 clearview on what how that we are justified in in God's
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sight. Any any comments on this
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scripture here Andrew? Yeah, it comes back to what mean
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you believe. I think pretty much is that the
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way you got saved is how you are saved.
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Yeah. It's if it if believing on the
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Lord Jesus Christ is works or that's something that I have to
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do and you count that as a work, then we would be saved by works.
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But God in his language, he says it's not of works.
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He counts believing on him not as works.
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He says we have left a system, a program, a method of works that
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fell short and he says now it's not of works.
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It's no more works. It was works, but now it's no
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more works. And so he says believing on the
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one that died for us is not of works.
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That's not works. What justifies us is not works.
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It's believing on him that justifies the ungodly.
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That's the method right now. And the rest is pretty that that
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pretty much deals with it. For me, the rest is just common
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sense, like if I try other means other ways and I'm then I'm I
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have to leave the way to go to try others or to to commit
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myself to any other plan. I don't understand why that is
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confusing or why that all of a sudden would be like, oh, it's
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by works or somehow you're not secure.
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My security is not in anything but Christ.
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So why can't I be secure just because I believe in one
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security? I don't believe in multiple
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securities. There's only one security, one
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eternal security. Jesus made it very clear he's
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the only way, that he's the way, the truth and life.
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No man comes to father except by him.
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So that that helps me understand that my security is in him.
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And he's saying, if you're going back somewhat as to
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circumcision, which was not even necessarily given by Moses, it
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was kind of instituted through Abraham, right?
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Like it was before the law. And he's saying, look, if you're
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still fantasizing over that covenant, then you're not going
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with the new covenant, you're not going with the new method.
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And that is that I died for you and your justification, your
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forgiveness. I, I'm willing to present you
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whole and blameless before the Father simply by you putting
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your faith in that. And that I'm the one that I am
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the one that will present you that I am the one that covered
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all the bases. I am the one that spoiled every
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principality and power. Every dark thing was reconciled.
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He fixed it. And for me to go somewhere else
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would be like me looking at options of bridges.
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And every bridge is, you know, you see weaknesses and you see
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places where you that won't carry me across.
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I I won't make it across, but then you come to this one bridge
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that is perfect. I can take anything across.
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I want to it'll it, it's absolutely perfect.
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Then you find out that other people are saying, yeah, we've
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tried different bridges. This is the only one.
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But then we were like, well, you know, there's people that, you
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know, they can make it, you know, you can try other bridges
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that I just don't understand why that takes away the security of
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the, the bridge that is secure. You see what I'm the argument
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I'm trying to make? Like it's not a threat to my
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security just because I believe that there's no security
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anywhere else. Yeah, Yeah.
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No, you know what I mean? Yeah.
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It's exactly like your bridge, your bridge illustration there.
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It's kind of like socialism in America.
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Everybody, you know, it's been tried in other countries.
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Everyone says, yeah, but they didn't do it right.
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You know, if they, if they'd actually do it right, if we set
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it up right here in America, the socialists to say it, it is the
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best system ever. But it has never worked in any
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country that has ever tried it. That is exactly what you're
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saying there. Every one of these bridges, you
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know, these other means of getting to God come up short.
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But we still have people saying that.
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Yeah. But you know, if we do it this
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way, though, if we do it this way, though, this one would
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work, you know, in theory, but it never does.
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It never does. I always, every one of them come
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up. There's one bridge.
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His name is Jesus Christ. That's that's how simple that
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is. But then they're saying they're
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trying to make the arc. So I think we're getting a
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little more sophisticated than that even is that we are trying
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to take away the security of the good bridge by allowing other
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means in. So if we don't allow other
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means, let's say someone says, you know what, I'm a little weak
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in the faith. I'm going to try other bridges,
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but I'm also going to try the I'm also, I really believe in
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the good bridge. You know, I believe in the
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secure bridge. You know, I, I am of the secure
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bridge, but then there's something that is blinding in
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them and they're like, they get the wrong bridge.
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And then I'm here saying, no, that's not the right bridge.
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If you are flirting with that bridge, if you're trying to
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think about that bridge, then you're lost.
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You're going to go to the bottom.
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And then they're saying I'm not secure and the bridge that is
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secure. No, you see what I'm saying.
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But I don't understand why it takes away from the security of
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the bridge just because like the good bridge just because I see
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people trying another bridge. Right.
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Yeah, yeah. That's nothing to do with the
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secure bridge. Exactly because the secure
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bridge plus anything is not the bridge at all.
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Because you have to leave the bridge.
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That's what they don't, we don't understand is you can't try and
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go over another bridge while you're going on the good bridge.
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Right. Yeah, that's right.
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That's just impossible. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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Can't be on 2 at one time. Unless you can do a big split or
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something you know. One leg on this one and one leg
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on the other one, in which case you're going to end up in the in
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the ditch anyway. Or Thor, Yeah.
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Yeah, that's good. You know, and what I think what
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I had to think about, you mentioned a little bit Abraham,
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Romans 4 one through 4 says, what shall we say then?
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That Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh has
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found? For if Abraham were justified by
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works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God.
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For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God and it was
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counted unto him for righteousness.
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You know, I mean there, there's no argument there.
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And if you look at that story, what Abraham did, God told him
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to go sacrifice his, his son. He did, he went up there fully
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prepared. He was, he was absolutely
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obedient and he went up there and he did what God asked him.
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And he says that not the fact that he, I mean, it's, it's not
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his act other than he that he acted out of faith.
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That's what that's what it was counted to him for
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righteousness. And that was before Jesus.
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I think that still carries through today.
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Well, I think it's. Immortal now.
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More so Bob, yeah. If it's more so now, because now
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he's not even asking us to go to sacrifice something.
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He's just telling us to asking us to believe if we put our
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faith in the sacrifice that has already happened.
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And he's saying now in response to that sacrifice, you go and do
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this and this and this and this and this and this and this.
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You know, the fruit of that, of his labor should spill over into
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our lives as believers. So it's a pretty sweet deal.
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It is, it is absolutely, 100%. All right.
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I, we're going to switch gears a little bit and I wanted to hit
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a, a couple of other verses. So, so one of the other kind of
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positions, I guess, for lack of better words, is, is what I
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guess I would call like a covenant view or sacrament view.
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This is, this is really common here in the Midwest.
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It's it's kind of the Catholic faith, I guess kind of hangs on
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this. The Catholic Church would have
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this view regarding faith and that is that salvation is
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entered through God's grace, but they can be lost through serious
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and unrepentant sin. Restoration is possible through
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repentance kind of thing focuses on one big moment of being saved
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and salvation is understood as an ongoing relationship with
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God. You know, it's a lifelong
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process. Whatever the biggest the biggest
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thing here is that it can be can be lost through sin.
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And you know, a lot of this we actually kind of we talked about
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already. We know that the same day with
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the same way that we got our salvation is which is by faith.
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This that same method maintains our salvation.
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It's by faith. It never it never turns over to
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works. You know, we don't get it by
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faith and maintain it by by good works.
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That is not what makes our position secure.
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All right. And I, I know you could take
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that to A, to a pretty drastic extreme.
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There's verses and I'll look it up here in a second.
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But there are believers that look pretty ungodly.
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Actually, you can see some situations in the Bible.
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I'll see if I can find one of them that that is pretty sick.
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And he calls them believers. So there's there's there's that
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we we talked about a lot of that.
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But one of those scriptures in the James I'll I'll read James
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214 through 26 kind of a long road, but listen to this.
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What does it profit my brethren, though a man say he has faith
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and have not works, Can faith save him if a brother or sister
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is naked and destitute of daily food and one of you say unto
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them, depart in peace, be you warmed and filled,
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notwithstanding you give not those things which are needful
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to the body. What does it profit?
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Even so, faith, if it hath not works, is dead.
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Being alone? Yeah, Amen.
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May say, thou has faith, and I have works.
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Show me thy faith by thy works, and I will show thee my faith by
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my works. Thou believe us that there is
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one God. Thou doest well.
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The devils also believe in tremble.
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Thou wilt know. Obey man, that faith without
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works is dead. Was not Abraham our father,
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justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the
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altar? Seeing thou, seest thou how
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faith wrought with his works, and by works his faith made
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perfect, and Scripture was fulfilled, which saith Abraham
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believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness, and
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he was called the friend of God. Ye see then how that by works,
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Amen is justified and not faith only Likewise also was not Rahab
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the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers
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and had sent them out another way for as a body for as the
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body without the spirit is dead. So faith without works is dead.
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Also. You know, this is this is one of
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those that I don't know about you, Andrew, but we we grew up
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here and there's a lot and it still gets tossed in your face
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when you when you talk about grace.
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People come right into this James to a lot to be like, Oh
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no, wait a minute, though, you can't just say.
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You know, they, they come booking all over the place with
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this information. What do you, what do you, how do
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you explain this verse in the light of the the position that
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we're talking about? It's a lot in the same way that
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the people come running to us accusing of being grace, they
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have almost right. Paul also says that be not
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deceived. God is not mocked.
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You know, no hormone or the whole list of sins has any
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inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
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The the, the challenge here is, is that there's people that
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believe they're not walking in their faith at the at times and
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all of us are not walking in our faith perfectly.
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And but that's why the warnings of like Paul says, you were
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sometimes darkness, but now you're like walk as children of
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light. And so we can see there that
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it's up to us whether we're going to walk in the faith that
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we have. What these religious people that
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want to basically discard grace because of these verses, I would
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say their actions is showing me that they don't believe.
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Their works are denying their claim of having faith as well.
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Just like if I'm circumcised or I do the Sabbath day, those are
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works that tell me that you don't believe right now.
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I know that I know that. I know that people do things in
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ignorance and you can walk after sin.
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Sin is not what separates you from God as a believer.
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Unbelief, I think is or find other means for salvation other
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than Christ. It's basically the threat.
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But what sin does, it darkens us and it it misrepresents us and
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it gets us to the point where we're so cold and we don't, we
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don't have any more spiritual convictions and stuff 'cause sin
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just really does take you down. And which is why Paul says, I
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believe that to give someone over to Satan if they're too
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dark and unrepentant. Because you know what we need to
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save, you know, so that his spirit may be saved or whatever
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in the last day. So I don't know at what point
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that is. But again, if you're walking in
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sin or trying to keep some commandments to man, he says a
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man may say thou have faith, but show me your faith by your
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works. That's different, I think, from
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God. God knows our heart and He knows
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our faith and we there's people that have faith that we would
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say probably don't based on their works.
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But before man for me to show you, if if you want to show me
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that you have faith, then I should see some fruit.
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You know, I don't know. I can't see your faith.
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God can't. But if you want to show me
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faith, your faith, they show me some fruit.
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And when you come with, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and
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I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
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I keep the Sabbath, I'm circumcised, I keep certain
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days, I feast days and stuff like that.
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I'm going to say, yeah, you don't have faith.
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But if you come when you say, you know what, I am dead to sin.
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Jesus Christ gave me the victory over sin.
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He says I am dead to sin. I'm free from sin.
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And that has changed my life. I don't do the things I used to
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do. I am resolved in the finished
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work of Jesus Christ. I know that that blood cleanses
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me from all sin and I'm a different man.
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And as far as proof that I believe I I'm not perfect, I
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know I'm different. I can see faith there.
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I can see faith there. Notice that that man is not
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pointing or doing anything that tries to convince me of his
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justification or his faithfulness to God.
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He knows that the victors in Jesus victory over sins in
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Jesus, everything that he needs is in Christ and he's trying to
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walk in that light. And to me, that explains whether
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someone has faith or not. But I find it ironic how many
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religious people jumped on this verse about all you need to show
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that you have faith while they're showing that they don't
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have faith. Yeah, no, that's, that's exactly
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right. And that that's where my mind
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went to, you know, if, if the works that are, I mean, you're
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going to have works, OK, regardless of what you believe,
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I think you're going to have works, right.
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So if I, I mean the, the works that is talking about here in
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James is simply it's the result of what you believe.
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And, and even even on a very physical level, you can people
25:07
around me can see what I believe about business practices.
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They can see that I'm Jerry, Jerry, I'm sure you know, if
25:16
he'd have his mic on, he can tell you that he can see what I
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believe about running a business by the way, that I run my
25:23
business, right. I mean that that explains to him
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what I think is important in business, if I'm, if I'm being
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true, not a hypocrite. And so, so that's all this is.
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This is saying that, you know, I can see if, if in other words,
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so this works is a byproduct of what you believe.
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So if you're actually a believer, if you believe in the
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mercy and the grace of God and his Son raised to the cross,
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giving us life, resurrecting us from from death, if that's what
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you believe, then you're going to have these qualities.
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I can see it. I can see what you believe
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because you have these qualities.
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You know, it's, it's, it's really a simple deal.
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It, we get it backwards. We want to say, well, you know,
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if you're a real believer, you have these qualities.
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That is actually not what we're looking for.
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This is simply in the auction business.
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We have a, when we're clocking, we don't use this, but it's,
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it's, it's a thing that we have. So when we're, when we're doing
26:21
an auction, every time that we make a transaction clerk an
26:25
item, you can have it print that transaction on a piece of paper.
26:29
They call it a trail printer. It prints every transaction that
26:32
happens as you go and and that's kind of what this is what this
26:36
works is it, it's a trail printer of what actually happens
26:39
up here and what you know, the, the results of it are down here.
26:43
It's not the other way around. These, these results are not the
26:47
leader. Your faith, your faith or your
26:49
lack of is the leader. That's that's what actually is
26:53
happening. We see what you believe down
26:56
here in your actions. That's what it is.
26:58
Yeah. Well, if you're saying that I
27:00
believe in the mercy and the grace of God, but you're running
27:03
around keeping the law or running down bridges that God
27:06
didn't build, I don't think so. I think you're wrong.
27:09
I think you're mistaken. I think you're misguided.
27:12
Your printer is messed up. Yeah, well, it's printing out
27:15
exactly what you're actually doing.
27:17
It's showing us what you're doing.
27:20
You know what I mean? Like, yeah, so I don't know.
27:24
Yeah, it it's it it's so easy to get get that turn around.
27:28
And that's why you said, well, that the religious group, they
27:31
just, they just want to look at that be like, yeah, well, you
27:34
can't, can't say that you just you get into heaven by by faith
27:37
alone. That's not.
27:38
Yeah, it is. But if the faith that you have
27:42
isn't producing this stuff, there's an issue somewhere.
27:45
Of course there is. Where I can see by your trail
27:46
printer that something's wrong up here.
27:49
You're you're you're you're not trusting in this, the finished
27:53
sacrifice that God created and made for us to be redeemed unto
27:57
him. I can see that by what you're
27:58
doing. Yeah, and it's interesting that
28:01
in the New Testament, after Christ died, he doesn't talk as
28:06
much about works. He does here in James.
28:07
He calls it works, but put it fruit is mentioned way more and
28:13
fruit makes way more sense in the light of the gospel because
28:18
or in light of the gospel because the we're not trying to
28:25
get something planted. We're not trying to get a found
28:30
out foundation or get some root to grow or build ourselves as a
28:36
system that is going to work. We're looking at something that
28:40
has been planted and died and rose again.
28:44
Like we were planted together in the likeness of his death.
28:47
We're raised in the likeness of his resurrection.
28:51
That's it. That's just it.
28:54
And based on our actions, you know, if you want to look at our
28:58
fruit, it varies. Some days we're lit up, some
29:03
days we're lazy, you know, some days we're really tried, you
29:08
know, and sometimes it might not look that good.
29:11
And sometimes that's why God says we need to renew our minds
29:15
daily because he knows that that challenge is out there.
29:18
But the fastest way to prove to me that you you've given up
29:21
faith is that you're trying to justify your faith by your
29:25
works. Yeah, Yep, that's that's how it
29:30
is. All right.
29:34
I am going to, we're going to do one more Scripture then we'll
29:39
kind of wrap this up I think. And we we've talked about this
29:45
one quite a bit. We didn't actually pick it apart
29:48
in any of the in any of the situation.
29:50
It came up several times, but Hebrews 10/26 through 31 again.
29:56
This we discussed a little bit last time, but we didn't
29:58
actually have have it in our notes there says Hebrews 1026 to
30:02
31 says, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the
30:05
knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for
30:08
sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and
30:12
fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
30:17
He that despised Moses law died under mercy, died without mercy,
30:22
under two or three witnesses. Of how much sore punishment
30:25
suppose ye shall he be thought worthy, who have trodden under
30:30
foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the
30:33
covenant, wherewith He was sanctified and unholy thing, and
30:37
hath done despite unto the grace the spirit of grace.
30:42
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth to me.
30:45
I will recompense, saith the Lord, and again the Lord shall
30:49
judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall
30:53
into the hands of the living God.
30:57
So you know, people, people will run this another one of those
31:02
that people will kind of run to and say, well, you know what?
31:06
But here it says that if we sin willfully after we have received
31:10
the knowledge of truth, there's no sacrifice for us.
31:13
And and it well, yeah, and it and a lot of people will
31:18
immediately be like, well, you know, I must hinge on the word
31:21
willfully. So let's decide what is willful
31:24
said. Let's decide like if you pre
31:26
ponder like premeditated murder, you know, that's what they they
31:30
say, well, if it's an accidental one that just kind of came up
31:32
and you did it, that's not a willful one.
31:34
That that is an unwillful one. But I would argue that all day
31:39
long. I don't think that's what it's
31:40
saying at all. I think, I think all, all sin is
31:43
willful. Maybe some is more premeditated
31:45
than others, but it's it's, it's not like you can't help it.
31:51
It's not like there's no way that you could have not done
31:54
this and it just, it just came upon you or whatever.
31:57
And I'm not saying, you know, sometimes we do some stupid
31:59
stuff. But the sin here, and you can go
32:04
ahead, Andrew, but the sin here, yeah, again, if you look at
32:07
context, it's very, very clear what that sin is, isn't it?
32:10
Yeah, yeah, to touch a little bit on that willful thing,
32:15
pretty much ever since I've ever done.
32:17
It's because I wanted to. Yeah.
32:20
It's not like I it's not like I hated it.
32:23
The flesh wants to do it. That's why we do sin is because
32:28
we it's, we can't stop. Like we want to do it so bad.
32:32
The flesh and our body and our brain and everything makes those
32:35
connections and the. The wiring is going crazy and
32:39
the sparks are flying and you're like, you have to resist, man.
32:44
That that body wants to do it. You know it, it really wants to.
32:48
So we know it's not talking about that because that would be
32:51
just talking about sin, period. Like, you know, yeah, we're
32:55
there's no salvation. If that's the case.
32:58
There's no salvation because I don't know of a sin that we do
33:02
that. We go oops, It was just an oops.
33:05
Like I had, I didn't see that coming.
33:08
I had. No, I didn't want to do that.
33:11
Now, in our mind, we don't want to do it.
33:13
You know, in our conscience, we don't want to do it.
33:16
We hate it in that regard. But still, the reason that we do
33:21
it is because we we wanted to. Yeah.
33:24
And. How long, how long do you have
33:25
to premeditate it before it's willful?
33:28
You know, like 2 seconds or three or four?
33:30
How, how many, how many seconds do we get here?
33:32
How you know, how, how much, what, when is God going to say,
33:35
wow, you know, I don't think that was I I'll let that one
33:38
slide, you know? That's what that's what I was
33:42
always going to say is there has to be a gauge.
33:44
Then God's going to go up there and there's going to be like
33:46
this balance where it tips the scales like 01 second, two
33:51
seconds willful, you know, you know, that's he's toast.
33:59
But no, he tells us what the sin is is you're counting the
34:03
sacrifice. You're seeing the goodness of
34:05
God. You're seeing the grace.
34:07
In fact, you've tasted it, you've experienced deliverance
34:11
in Christ Jesus, you've experienced the joy and then
34:14
you've been enticed and you've decided that you added it all up
34:18
and said, you know what, I'm tired of walking in faith.
34:21
I want something that's more physical.
34:24
That's why do you think people come 7th Day Adventists?
34:27
Why do you think people are comfortable with Roman
34:30
Catholicism? It's because simply having faith
34:35
and standing on that rooted and grounded in the finished work of
34:39
Christ, it's a little bit lonely.
34:43
You're a fish out of the water. You don't have anything that
34:47
physically out here that justify you.
34:50
Like there's no method or program or church system that
34:54
you can follow that kind of makes you gives you that
34:57
confidence. You know that that physical
35:00
outward like you know what I belong.
35:02
I I am, you know what I am in the body of Christ.
35:06
I'm in, I have this beautiful organized church setting where
35:10
the, you know, we're a family believers, not it's spiritual
35:17
and our our edification and and how would you say it?
35:25
Physical reminding of the faith and encouragement comes from
35:28
conversation. Yeah, it not method, not not a
35:33
program. So it like when you guys came
35:37
and visited, that's about as good as this is.
35:38
We going to have like, yeah, we we identify and we encourage and
35:43
we and strengthen the inner man by conversation and by Bible
35:48
doctrine and stuff like that. But a lot of us get a little
35:52
tired of that. Like like, you know, it's a
35:53
trying of our faith to stay there.
35:57
And then when someone comes along and says you can have that
35:59
faith, we believe that faith you Oh, we embrace that faith, Glory
36:05
Hallelujah, you know, oh, that's the gospel.
36:09
And we have noticed that if you know, since you believe that
36:12
gospel, why wouldn't you want to keep the commandments that the
36:15
guy that died for on the cross? Why wouldn't you want to do his
36:19
will? Do His will now that you're a
36:22
believer, out of respect and love, Not to get saved, not to
36:26
stay safe. But you know, why wouldn't you
36:28
want to keep his commandments, you know?
36:31
That's what you hear all the time.
36:32
And do this, if you do this and all the peace and the blessings
36:36
that follow, if you keep the Sabbath and you don't eat this
36:40
mat and you become a part of this program, that's that's the
36:44
enticement, you know? And yeah, it's just little, it's
36:49
it's going to be a little lonely being a believer.
36:51
You know, you need to fellowship and talk with believers and be
36:55
stirred up in the faith. And yeah, people, people don't
36:57
like that. It's uncomfortable.
36:59
And I and I get it. I mean, it's enticing for me,
37:02
honestly, it's enticing. But here what they're doing is
37:07
they're willfully, not even necessarily, maybe it's deceit
37:13
and deceiving, but it's interesting that he says
37:16
willfully. It's like, you understand it,
37:19
man. You know the gospel, you're
37:22
willingly rejecting it. Like you've measured it, you've
37:27
counted the blood and you said, Nah, I'll perfect it or
37:30
whatever. I'll just put it aside all
37:32
together. And why wouldn't God be pretty
37:36
touchy about that? I mean, yeah, giving his Son
37:40
that offers eternal salvation for all mankind.
37:44
He suffered the kind of suffering that brought atonement
37:48
for the entire world. And you're going to count that
37:51
up and experience it and then go, Nah, I'd be pretty upset
37:55
too. Yeah.
37:57
There's no reason. There's no.
37:59
There's no wonder he says fire, indignation and wrath is waiting
38:02
for that. I mean, that's bad.
38:05
That's way worse than someone that has never seen it, you
38:08
know, And if they're going to hell because they don't believe,
38:11
what do you think about the guy that counted it and saw it and
38:13
said, Nah, I'm good. Yeah, no, that's that's really
38:18
good. And that that's exactly, that's
38:21
exactly right. Who has so that the problem is
38:26
the the problem here is counting the blood of the covenant and
38:31
unholy thing. That's.
38:33
That's the whole thing. And and I agree with you when
38:37
when you talk about he uses the word willful, which I think is
38:41
interesting, but it's it's, you know, counting the the blood of
38:46
the covenant and unholy thing. That's that's what it's that's
38:48
what it's talking about. Willingly doing that.
38:50
Yeah, and and it says anyway, when you when you count
38:53
something, you carefully look like you're, you're actually
38:58
examining it intentionally. And then and then you're you're
39:04
saying, no, just like you said, you everything, everything,
39:07
everything. And then you're like, no, I
39:08
don't want, that's not good enough.
39:10
I'm going to get circumcised, you know, or I'm going to
39:14
abstain from eating pork or whatever, whatever it is just to
39:19
make that better. And that is that is counting
39:22
that sacrifice and unholy thing. Yeah, because because we are
39:25
counting it. We're as we're just again, it
39:29
goes back to our works. We.
39:30
I can see what you believe if you're abstaining from eating
39:33
pork. I can tell what you believe
39:35
about the Son of God there. You go.
39:38
I mean, it is that it is that simple.
39:40
I can tell that you are counting the sacrifice that Jesus made on
39:44
the cross as insufficient. It's not.
39:47
Exactly what he said because he clearly says whatever is
39:51
received with Thanksgiving is purified.
39:53
Based on what? Yeah.
39:56
Based on what? The cross.
39:58
The cross. Absolutely.
40:00
And if and if you're going to count that cross and say it fell
40:04
short, that you can't eat this and that and also the rest like
40:09
the Sabbath, if Jesus Christ is not your rest and you're still
40:14
keeping a Sabbath day, then you're counting the cross and
40:17
you're saying a. Little.
40:19
Short. Yep.
40:21
Where God clearly said he is that rest that it is no more.
40:26
Like Paul says, there's no day that he esteems above another.
40:29
Why? Because of the cross.
40:32
Yeah. Because of the sacrifice and
40:35
God's telling us that. And yet we're adding it up and
40:39
we're counting. We go.
40:42
Yeah, yeah, that. That arrogance right there, that
40:48
is some serious arrogance. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:52
That that's thinking that we have a better plan.
40:54
We know better than what what got, you know, some of that is
40:57
done in ignorance. And I agree with you that that's
40:59
a little bit different. Maybe I don't know that it won't
41:02
get judged anyway or whatever. Like if somebody really doesn't
41:05
doesn't understand or whatever this is, this is talking about
41:08
it. And you look at the book of
41:09
Hebrews, you'll see what the whole argument is.
41:12
If you listen to our series through that, this would be,
41:15
this would be something that someone that knows better,
41:17
There's no doubt about it. But I, we've got a few minutes
41:21
left here. I, I want to, I want to know
41:23
just on him in Hebrews 10. I think, you know, and looking
41:28
at the, the whole, you know, we, we kind of went through four
41:31
different kind of positions that we see and there could be a lot
41:34
of argument there and a lot of discussion and, and carrying it
41:38
on. And I'm not, if someone has a, a
41:40
little bit different view of how it, how it all plays out, I'm,
41:44
I'm, I'm going to be OK with that.
41:46
The other thing that I'm not going to be OK with is if you do
41:50
despite to the spirit of grace, what it says here like it is, it
41:55
is absolutely essential in whatever or ways are whatever
41:59
plays out in your life, the however you live your life,
42:02
whatever that is, don't count the grace of God as an unholy
42:06
thing. I mean that that is that is
42:10
going to separate you from God. There's there's just no no two
42:14
ways about it. He made a sacrifice, He made a
42:17
way, He made a bridge, a path, a way that we could be united with
42:22
God in eternity. And there is only one way.
42:26
There's no no other. All the other stuff that we do
42:29
in life is negotiable to some degree that is not.
42:35
And, and so I would just in whatever it is, I, I, we didn't
42:38
do this series to divide anybody.
42:40
We did this series because I think it's an interesting thing
42:42
to look at and see what actually it is that carries us into
42:46
eternity with God. That's that's what I'm concerned
42:49
with. And I'm sure that's Andrew and
42:50
every other believer out there. We want you.
42:52
We want you in heaven. I the way that you live life
42:55
here. It's really nice to deal with
42:56
Christians. We, we went to Andrews churches.
42:58
We were in Ohio for a family thing.
43:00
And then I ended up Andrew's church service there.
43:04
It was a real blessing to be around other believers like you
43:07
already mentioned. It's just so good.
43:09
But at the end of the day, that's not Trump.
43:12
What is what is Trump? And what makes US1 is that blood
43:15
of Jesus and him dying on that cross.
43:17
And that way we look at it, we just, we just love it.
43:19
We, we appreciate what God did so that we don't have to
43:23
struggle. We've been there, we've done
43:24
that. We've tried to come up with our
43:26
own righteousness. And every time, not once in a
43:29
while, every single time we come up shortly when we actually
43:31
examine it and it's the blood of Christ that does it and that
43:35
satisfies us and we are settled in that.
43:37
And because of that, we're friends with each other.
43:39
So that that's that's what I'm at at on this whole thing.
43:44
I, I want you to believe in the Son of God as our, our, our way
43:49
and, and it's going to influence how we live them.
43:51
But verse 38 and 39 in Hebrews 10 really, really kind of puts
43:56
this together. It says Now the just shall live
43:59
by faith. But if any man draw back, my
44:01
soul shall have no pleasure in him.
44:04
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition, but of them
44:08
that believe to the saving of the soul that makes it as clear
44:11
as you possibly can. It it it brings all these things
44:15
right up to the point where is that point?
44:17
What is what is it that we are looking at it?
44:20
If the if the whole Bible from one cover to the other place to
44:24
one thing is to that. But of them that believe to the
44:28
saving of the soul it it doesn't get any clearer any better than
44:32
that. That is, that is pure love,
44:35
God's love flowing from from him toward us, that we could
44:39
understand that, know that, and believe that and live in rest
44:42
and in peace. Amen.
44:45
And to touch more on that little grace period or whatever you
44:50
know, is there a little some negotiables God uses meat, meats
44:57
and circumcision. What else?
45:01
A lot of the that meats and circumcision is the most popular
45:04
one to measure and to argue and debate about whether someone is
45:08
believing the gospel or not or if they're putting the cross
45:11
aside. But then he turns around and
45:14
says, you know what? If there's a weak, a weak
45:17
brother, not, he's not willingly despiting, despising the the
45:23
grace of God, but he just came out of Judaism and man, it's
45:28
hard for him to stick his fork in a piece of pork.
45:32
It it's just he can't get it like he he can't get it passed.
45:36
He's he's but he says he's weak in faith.
45:40
So it's not saying that the cross didn't do the job.
45:43
He's just having a hard time believing it.
45:45
Right, right. There's a difference.
45:47
He's having a hard time putting his faith in that.
45:50
That cross, that sacrifice of Christ actually made that pork,
45:54
you know, you know, a blessing in my life like never done that.
46:01
But what is despitefully and willfully is when Christians are
46:08
trying to make Gentiles guilty for eating, for eating pork.
46:12
I mean, that's how far we've taken it.
46:16
And willfully, willfully going against the sacrifice and the
46:21
and the work of the cross and adding it up and saying, you
46:23
know what? It didn't purify pork.
46:27
Yeah, that's still showing. We have a flat out gentiles that
46:33
ate pork their whole life all of a sudden stop eating pork, you
46:38
know? Yeah, that's that is that is
46:40
blasphemous. Yeah.
46:42
Yeah. No, it is.
46:45
Yeah, it goes back. That's that's adding to, you
46:49
know, and I don't know what you think about this.
46:51
We have a we have a book or no, I don't even know if it's a
46:55
book. Maybe it's anyway, the idea that
46:59
God called pork unclean for a reason, like in other words, so
47:03
his, his dietary law. Wow.
47:04
It's not a I'm, I'm not even talking about a salvation thing
47:07
or even a faith thing now, but like pork is probably not good
47:12
for you because God, you know, had had cut that out.
47:16
They didn't even want him to eat it, eat it because it was
47:18
unhealthy or shellfish or some of those things.
47:22
Do you do you think that that actually is at least kind of off
47:26
in a body trail now? But is it actually, is it
47:28
actually on health or why did he, why did he outlaw it?
47:31
It depends. It, it, it says isn't that
47:34
averse because it doesn't sweat or something like that.
47:37
But it's interesting to me. My wife does a lot of health
47:41
research now and she's saying that they're finding that if you
47:45
raise the pig right, like and #1 why were they hurting pigs back
47:50
then? But #2 she's saying that they
47:54
were, you know, if you if like there's basically non-GMO breast
48:00
fed or non-GMO corn fed pigs, that they're finding out that
48:05
pig fat is some of the healthiest things you can eat.
48:09
I. Find that hard to believe?
48:11
But that's what she's saying. It's like good pig fat.
48:15
Not the junk you buy at the store, but yeah, there's
48:19
actually such a thing as, I guess, pork, certain parts of
48:23
pork that's really good for you. I've heard so much about God
48:28
hates pork that I'm having. I guess I'm getting a little
48:31
weak. Actually.
48:32
It's worth doing his number on me.
48:34
But I have a hard time believing that when I eat in the pork that
48:37
I like, man, this is healthy. I just know that I can eat in
48:40
that pork without any kind of conscience bothering me because
48:44
I gave thanks. And God says, my God, my Savior
48:48
says that if you give thanks, he doesn't care what it is, it's
48:51
good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's
48:55
kind of how I am. But anyway that I I thought
48:58
about that we were talking about, you know, eating, eating
49:00
or whatever. If you if he was like, that's
49:02
because I we raise our own pork and it's really good.
49:06
I don't know if it's good for. US that's there's a lot of
49:11
health nuts now saying that the right pork is actually good for
49:15
you. Yeah, and that's we feed ours
49:17
non-GMO cord. Of course they get all the table
49:19
scraps and garden scraps and all that.
49:21
It's really good marbled up like beef almost.
49:24
Oh yeah. So anyway, well, I think we're
49:28
going to call it quits there. Good study, good way to get.
49:32
I'll get together with our crew here.
49:34
We'll decide what subject or or book that we want to study next.
49:39
Going to be interesting, but anything else regarding just as
49:43
an overview, anything else that you think would be helpful,
49:46
Andrew, to people that are kind of deciding which of these
49:49
categories they want to put themselves in other than what
49:52
you know, we already said about, you know, making sure that that
49:56
it's Christ only that that holds us righteous in the sight of
49:59
God. I would say if you're not 100%
50:04
sure, stop listening to anybody. Stop listening to teachers and
50:10
preachers. Figure it out for yourself.
50:12
Start in the book of Romans and just read for yourself verse by
50:16
verse. Go through the entire book and
50:19
by the time you come to the end of Romans, you'll probably want
50:22
to read First Corinthians, Galatians, all those books where
50:25
the apostle Paul said in Galatians that Jesus Christ came
50:30
to revealed himself to him personally, not the other
50:33
apostles. But Christ came and revealed
50:37
after he was crucified and told him the gospel that he's to
50:40
preach. And that is that's the guy I'm
50:43
listening to. Why?
50:45
Because I want the last word. You know, Christ rose from the
50:51
dead, hung around for 40 days and then he left.
50:55
But he told the Apostle Paul that the teaching that he wants
51:01
us to teach now post crucifixion.
51:05
And it's interesting how many people hate the message of the
51:09
post crucifixion message. They still want to be stuck in
51:12
the book of Matthew or, you know, further back or whatever.
51:16
I'm telling you, if you put aside all the noise, all the
51:20
things people say, and you just read for yourself the book of
51:23
Romans and continue reading through the New Testament,
51:27
you're going to see it for yourself.
51:28
It's not going to be like, well, so and so said this and I'm
51:31
trying to weigh it out. This guy says this, that guy
51:34
says that, but man, this guy makes a really good argument for
51:37
doing it. Just go back and read read the
51:40
map yourself and it would direct you in the right direction.
51:45
Yeah, that that's really good and I I would agree with that
51:47
100%. I mean, you're OK to listen to
51:49
this podcast. You can listen to us.
51:51
We're but. I'm missing us, right?
51:57
Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, I'll, I agree with you
52:00
though, taking that, getting the the pure milk of the word and
52:05
and just just digesting that and looking at it and letting it
52:08
speak to you. I really think that's going to
52:10
change a lot of a lot of some of the fluff that goes on.
52:14
It did did for me when we started actually looking at and
52:16
we had we listened to teachers that helped us kind of see some
52:20
of these truths that because of the way we were raised.
52:23
And I'm sure that's that's the same way across all religions.
52:27
We were so influenced in One Direction that we could almost
52:30
not even see the scriptures truly for what they were.
52:33
Somebody helped us be like, no, let the Bible define the Bible.
52:37
Let let the Bible define this word and see what it actually
52:40
says. It's not real easy actually.
52:43
It takes a lot of effort to get to be that strict with yourself
52:49
and not believe the the fluff that you've been hearing for
52:52
your last 30 years of your life. And the other thing is, is that
52:56
the ministers and church systems and big, big names, big names,
53:01
they have made it very intimidating for the average Joe
53:06
to read. Oh, yeah, yeah.
53:09
To to trust themselves that what they're reading, that they can
53:12
actually interpret it correctly. And there's these big, big names
53:18
have dissected verses and made it say things.
53:21
And like, man, I would have never gotten that out of that
53:23
verse. And then we say, well, I, I
53:25
don't trust myself. I can't.
53:27
I can read, but man, I can't get out what these guys get out of
53:31
verses. So I can't trust myself.
53:34
Put that all aside. Yeah.
53:36
There's times where I see things in verses that I never saw
53:39
before. That's just happened for that
53:41
big name guy, too. Yeah, it's it's it just happens.
53:45
But it can happen for you, too. God is very ready.
53:49
I think I got saved doing that. I got tired of all the noise of
53:55
all the former Amish and the Amish, and I said, OK, I'm going
53:59
to go find it myself in one study.
54:02
My eyes were open, just one and it and it and it happened when I
54:06
was like done. And I was ready to be guided.
54:10
I was ready to be LED. You can go and study and not be
54:15
willing to be LED, but if you're willing to be LED, God can't
54:19
wait to lead you. He's like the Spirit of God is
54:21
just right there and you can with full confidence, go and
54:24
read and God will let you. He will, he will let you see
54:28
what you need to see. I, I believe that with all my
54:31
heart and I think he hates these ministries that make it look
54:36
intimidating to read his word. Like somehow we don't have to
54:40
stuff or the wisdom or the knowledge or the confidence to
54:44
interpret it and let it say what he wants to say.
54:47
No, go read it. Yep, God is absolutely looking
54:51
for those that are willing to put aside all the man made stuff
54:57
and actually pay attention to him.
54:59
I mean, he will help you see clearly if, if you're willing to
55:03
let go of all that other stuff, you know, some of it doesn't
55:07
matter, but you're going to have to be willing to let it go.
55:10
And if that's your mindset and your attitude, you can see the
55:13
truth. But that's it's pretty much that
55:15
simple. And, and he says, if you, if you
55:19
like, if you like understanding, if you like wisdom, ask.
55:24
Yep. Ask.
55:25
And he will give you liberally. It says yeah, Yeah.
55:32
Awesome. Hey, that sounds good.
55:33
I think our hours up. We're going to cut her, I think.
55:37
Yeah, we are. So we're going to let her run.
55:40
Appreciate you helping out, Andrew.
55:42
I'm going to get on Melvin's case.
55:46
I wasn't a good excuse to harass him a little bit.
55:49
So there you go. Anyway, All right, you guys have
55:52
a good one. Praise the Lord.
55:54
Thank. Thank God for his his way and
55:56
live as if you'd mean that. So anyway, keep it up.
56:00
God bless you. We'll see you next time.
56:02
I'm the same place.