Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #979 Taking No For An Answer

Transcript

#979 Taking No For An Answer · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers. Now today,
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I'm a Happy Families podcast answering your questions. Happy families
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: dot com dot au is where you go to come
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: the podcast link and then just press the button. Easy
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  Speaker 2: to use, start talking and you can send messages through
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: just like this one.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Hi, Justin and Kylie, I love your podcast. I am
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: a longtime listener and this is actually for my friend.
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  Speaker 3: My friend is a single mum and has been since pregnancy.
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  Speaker 3: Her son is ten years old who has started suddenly
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  Speaker 3: being aggressive and disrespectful. He is always angry with her
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  Speaker 3: and doesn't listen. He does things and says things intentionary
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  Speaker 3: to upset her. Because my friend is single, her wage
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  Speaker 3: is going just to rent and food. Sometimes she can't
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  Speaker 3: even afford the food. She has used all of her
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  Speaker 3: free mental health sessions on her son, and she can't
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  Speaker 3: afford the ongoing psychologist or even an assessment for his behavior.
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  Speaker 3: She feels extremely stuck and is at the point of
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  Speaker 3: which she's saying to me that she just wants to
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  Speaker 3: call the police to take him away from her. For
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  Speaker 3: the context, the child is no father in his life.
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  Speaker 3: They've never met. The mother has had a handful of
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  Speaker 3: relationships over the years, but nothing is stuck. He has
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  Speaker 3: been raised by his mum and a family friend, and
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  Speaker 3: his grandparents are not so much in the picture. He
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  Speaker 3: has just changed schools this year, but he's doing well
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  Speaker 3: at school, so it seems I just want to know
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  Speaker 3: if you can tell me how best to support her
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  Speaker 3: as a friend, and what services there are available for
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  Speaker 3: those with a single income and who don't have the
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  Speaker 3: ability to pay for these things. If there are any
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  Speaker 3: tips you can give me to pass on to her
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  Speaker 3: when this child is being erratic and violent and aggressive
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  Speaker 3: when she's alone in the house with him, and how
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  Speaker 3: to calm him down and to talk to him.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Well, thanks so much Anonymous for sending
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  Speaker 2: that message through ten years old wanting to call the
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  Speaker 2: police feeling unsafe. I mean, this is a really, really
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  Speaker 2: tough story, and it's totally unfair research around this boys
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  Speaker 2: and single mums. There are just no easy wins here.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 2: I know that a lot of people say we've got
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  Speaker 2: to support diverse families, we've got to be encouraging about this,
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  Speaker 2: and I totally agree with that, but the reality is Statistically,
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  Speaker 2: this is just a really, really tough spot in Australia.
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  Speaker 2: At the moment. Fifteen percent of Australian families are run
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  Speaker 2: by single parents single parent households. Eighty percent of those
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  Speaker 2: are single mums, So that pretty much means twelve percent
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  Speaker 2: of Australian family households where there are dependents in the
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  Speaker 2: home run by mum and Hilda surveys from just last year.
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  Speaker 2: This Hilda is the household income and labor dynamics in Australia.
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  Speaker 2: Survey November last year. Average income of a single parent
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  Speaker 2: family in Australia thirty four thousand dollars. It's actually dropped
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  Speaker 2: from thirty eight thousand a few years ago. Cost of living,
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  Speaker 2: rent crisis, mental health challenges. I mean, how are you
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  Speaker 2: supposed to pay for a psychologist under those circumstances is
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  Speaker 2: just so hard. I think it's impossible. I don't know
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  Speaker 2: how you're supposed to do it, certainly benefit by the
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  Speaker 2: way I looked it up, nine hundred and eighty seven
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  Speaker 2: dollars per fortnite for a single parent nine hundred and
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  Speaker 2: eighty set. That's less than five hundred bucks a week,
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  Speaker 2: and you're supposed to be show me somewhere where you
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  Speaker 2: can rent for less than five hundred bucks a week
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  Speaker 2: and still put food on the table, run a car,
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  Speaker 2: and all that sort of thing. This is just a
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  Speaker 2: really tough spot, So a handful of things that I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to say. First off, when it comes to getting
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  Speaker 2: psychological help, my first recommendation would be, don't worry about
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  Speaker 2: getting psychological help for your sun. I'd be looking for it.
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  Speaker 2: In terms of support for parenting, research shows pretty comprehensively
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  Speaker 2: that when kids get psychological help, let's say on Tuesday
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  Speaker 2: morning at nine thirty, and then they start to have
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  Speaker 2: a meltdown on Friday afternoon at three point thirty or
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  Speaker 2: five o'clock, they don't say, hmm, I should think back
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  Speaker 2: to what my psychologists told me on Tuesday and implement that.
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  Speaker 2: They just don't do it. They don't have the emotion regulation,
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  Speaker 2: they don't have the frustration tolerance, they don't have the
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  Speaker 2: delay gratification, they don't have the executive fun they don't
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  Speaker 2: have the skills to be able to do that, whereas
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  Speaker 2: for us as parents, we do. So what I would
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  Speaker 2: be recommending when there's some funding available, when there's some
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  Speaker 2: cash available, get mum help first she's going to get
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  Speaker 2: more value learning effective parenting than he's going to get
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  Speaker 2: being told that he needs to control his anger. That
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  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that he doesn't need help. He really does,
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  Speaker 2: but I don't think that psychological help is the help
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  Speaker 2: that he needs. When I listen to this, what I
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  Speaker 2: hear is good men need to be around this kid.
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  Speaker 2: He doesn't have his dad in his life. Grandparents are
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  Speaker 2: barely involved. There's no indication of other good men. So
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  Speaker 2: I just love that you're a friend who wants to support.
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  Speaker 2: I wish the government could do more, I really do,
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  Speaker 2: but ultimately this is going to be an individual responsibility thing.
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  Speaker 2: The government's too busy blowing multi billions of dollars on
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  Speaker 2: desalination plants and billions of dollars on sporting stadiums, and
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  Speaker 2: spending hundreds of millions of dollars in Victoria to not
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  Speaker 2: host the Commonwealth Games that they said they would host.
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  Speaker 2: The the government excess, I mean the billions of dollars
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  Speaker 2: a year that they spend on advertising so that they
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  Speaker 2: can tell everyone how good a job they're doing. We
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  Speaker 2: can't rely on the government, and ndis finding that's blowing out.
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  Speaker 2: It was supposed to cost sixteen bill. It's currently at
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  Speaker 2: forty two billion, and it's going up, and unfortunately it's
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  Speaker 2: not being used well. I know too many people that
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  Speaker 2: work in NDIS systems, and these stories of excess and
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  Speaker 2: the way that people are taking advantage of the system
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  Speaker 2: when there are people who are so desperately in need
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  Speaker 2: is just devastating. I know that many people are using
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  Speaker 2: it the right way, and that's wonderful, that's what it's
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  Speaker 2: there for. But there's just too much abuse of this system.
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  Speaker 2: So if this is going to be an individual thing,
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  Speaker 2: and that's kind of what you've said, right, I want
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  Speaker 2: to be there. I want to be a supporting friend.
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  Speaker 2: I just think that's wonderful. Here's how I think that
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  Speaker 2: you can support Number one. There will be some services
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  Speaker 2: that are available that could be helpful, but they differ
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  Speaker 2: depending on which community you're in. The free services things
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  Speaker 2: like Beyond Blue, Black Dog, that kind of stuff, they're
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  Speaker 2: fairly general. I think we need some specific kinds of
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  Speaker 2: health here, So that's the first thing i'd say. Beyond that,
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  Speaker 2: here's what I think this little guy needs. He needs
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  Speaker 2: families in their circle, families in their community to engage
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  Speaker 2: with them as a family. So what am I talking
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  Speaker 2: about here. I'm saying, maybe go on a picnic and
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  Speaker 2: invite them. Get three or four or five families who
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  Speaker 2: are all willing to say, Hey, one day a week,
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  Speaker 2: let's have them over for a barbecue, or let's do
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  Speaker 2: a games night, or let's do a picnic down at
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  Speaker 2: the beach or down at the park. Let's keep this
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  Speaker 2: kid socially engaged and give some support to mum as well.
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  Speaker 2: It's going to make such a difference for her. If
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  Speaker 2: you're part of a broader community. Maybe there's even the
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  Speaker 2: capacity to drop a meal around spontaneously, or an uber voucher,
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  Speaker 2: an uber eats voucher, just to lighten the load. Because
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  Speaker 2: that financial load it's overwhelming. It's so hard to concentrate
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  Speaker 2: on anything else. The second thing that I'd say, outside
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  Speaker 2: of engaging with the family is keep this kid busy,
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  Speaker 2: getting him in in sports, getting him involved in extracurricular activities.
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  Speaker 2: Obviously there's a financial challenge here, but to the extent
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  Speaker 2: that there are scholarships available, to the extent that there's
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  Speaker 2: charity available, maybe somebody in the community is willing to say, hey,
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  Speaker 2: I'm happy to fork out the two hundred and fifty
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  Speaker 2: or four hundred bucks per term, so this kid can
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  Speaker 2: stay off the streets and be wearing himself out, developing
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  Speaker 2: competence and skills and making friends. This sort of thing
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  Speaker 2: is going to make such a big difference for mum.
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  Speaker 2: She gets a little bit of a lightning of the load,
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  Speaker 2: but also for this kid as he gets to engage
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  Speaker 2: in these activities and lastly recruit good man. He needs
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  Speaker 2: to learn what it is to be a good man,
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  Speaker 2: to learn how to help the people around him feel
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  Speaker 2: stronger and safer. That's the essence of healthy masculinity. And
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  Speaker 2: at the moment, I just don't think he's seeing it enough.
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  Speaker 2: I wish I could off more. It's, like I said,
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  Speaker 2: almost an impossible, unfair situation. And unfortunately we keep on
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  Speaker 2: seeing that there is a to parent privilege. We can
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  Speaker 2: talk about the importance of diversity in families and it is,
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  Speaker 2: but ultimately the stats don't support this as being an
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  Speaker 2: optimal way to raise a family. If that's where you are,
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  Speaker 2: or my compassion, my heart goes out to you. But
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  Speaker 2: this is a really tough job. All right, Let's take
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  Speaker 2: a look at question number two.
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  Speaker 1: Hi, doctor Justin and Kylie, I'm calling you regarding my son,
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  Speaker 1: who's six year old, calling you from London, and we
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  Speaker 1: are originally from Melbourne, but we have moved to London
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  Speaker 1: about one and a half years ago. It's certainly a
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  Speaker 1: big change for my little one. By this time, he's
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  Speaker 1: completely adjusted to the new way of life. However, we've
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  Speaker 1: been traveling extensively and I've noticed ever since my son
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  Speaker 1: has turned six, he has shown signs of aggression or
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  Speaker 1: you know, anger. More and more he realizes what anger is,
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  Speaker 1: but he doesn't know what to do about it or
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  Speaker 1: how to control it. And because we've been traveling a lot,
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  Speaker 1: we've landed in very embarrassing situations. Sometimes, you know, when
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  Speaker 1: we're at a dinner or maybe at a cruise or
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  Speaker 1: at the airport and everyone's just looking at us, and
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  Speaker 1: I have this shouting, yelling child who doesn't really know
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  Speaker 1: how to control his anger or communicate what he wants
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  Speaker 1: us to do to help him in that situation. I've
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  Speaker 1: realizes that there are a couple of things that trigger it.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, when he's tired or angry, hungry and thirsty.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know how to stop him from believing that
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  Speaker 1: he can get his way all the time, or he
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  Speaker 1: can buy things all the time, but I really don't
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  Speaker 1: know how to handle this situation, so I hope you
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  Speaker 1: can help me. I love your show and thank you
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: for all the support that you provide for parents like us.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Well, good for you for packing up and having the
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  Speaker 2: adventure of a lifetime heading off to London sounds amazing.
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  Speaker 2: We do have a little bit of a challenge though,
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  Speaker 2: because our kids they just rely on stability and predictability
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  Speaker 2: so they can feel good about them world, and they
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  Speaker 2: don't tend to respond too well to a whole lot
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  Speaker 2: of upheaval. Having said that, if the travel is happening
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  Speaker 2: with you, and you're there, and you're stable and you're predictable,
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  Speaker 2: then he'll probably be okay. So a couple of things
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  Speaker 2: about what to do when kids are having these big
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  Speaker 2: emotional meltdowns when they're being really challenging. First off, emotion
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  Speaker 2: regulation is something that develops over time. I know plenty
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  Speaker 2: of adults that are still lousy, lousy at emotion regulation.
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  Speaker 2: So it starts to develop somewhere around about the age
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  Speaker 2: of let's say three. That's when kids start to realize,
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  Speaker 2: hang on, I can use my emotions in effective ways
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  Speaker 2: to do what needs to be done. Emotion regulation is
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  Speaker 2: about expressing those emotions or keeping it together because I've
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  Speaker 2: got something that I'm looking to achieve. So the first
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  Speaker 2: thing to highlight here is emotion regulation develops on a continuum,
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  Speaker 2: starts around about two or three, and by the time
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  Speaker 2: kids are about nine, that's when they're getting good at
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  Speaker 2: expressing or holding their emotion together, depending on what their
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: goals are. They know what's expected socially. They usually do
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  Speaker 2: a lot better at it. Boys they develop a little
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  Speaker 2: slower than girls, and so it may be a little
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  Speaker 2: bit more than nine, but usually that's about the age.
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  Speaker 2: Given that you're dealing with a six year old, what
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  Speaker 2: you're describing is actually it's pretty normal. Kids are least
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  Speaker 2: likely to be regulated when they're hungry, angry, lonely, tired,
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  Speaker 2: or stress. Just remember the German police officer says, help
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  Speaker 2: mean stop. It's really hard to stop your emotions when
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: you are hungry, angry, lonely, tired, or stress like you
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  Speaker 2: will power your self control, your ability to delay, gratification,
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  Speaker 2: your frustration, tolerance, your executive function, they all take a
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  Speaker 2: really big dip when those factors are they're hungry, angry, lonely,
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  Speaker 2: tired and stressed. So what do you do? That's really
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  Speaker 2: what the question is, what am I supposed to do
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  Speaker 2: when these big emotions are happening. The first thing I
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  Speaker 2: want to emphasize is compassion is important. Okay, we don't
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  Speaker 2: want to be blowing up, we don't want to be
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  Speaker 2: getting angry at the kids. But the second thing I
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  Speaker 2: want to emphasize is that kids need to understand that
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  Speaker 2: there are some things that are okay and some things
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  Speaker 2: are not okay when it comes to their behavior, and
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  Speaker 2: about the age of six, in fact, maybe a bit
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  Speaker 2: before that, they can start to get that message loud
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  Speaker 2: and clear. So there's a movement it's been around for
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  Speaker 2: a long time now that kids should never hear no
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  Speaker 2: in child care centers, for example, those who work in
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  Speaker 2: early childcare are not supposed to say the word no
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  Speaker 2: to kids. I think that's garbage. Honestly, I just think
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  Speaker 2: that's rubbish. Kids have got to hear no. For the
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  Speaker 2: rest of your life, you're going to hear no. It's
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: not that no is a problem, it's the way that
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  Speaker 2: it's said. So give you a little guy a no
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  Speaker 2: and say I love you, kiddo, But the answer is
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  Speaker 2: no or wouldn't it be great if you could? When
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  Speaker 2: you say to a child, don't you just wish? Wouldn't
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  Speaker 2: it be great if you could, what you're really saying
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  Speaker 2: is no, You're just saying, with a whole lot of
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  Speaker 2: empathy and a whole lot of kindness, don't you just
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  Speaker 2: wish we could buy that thing? Wouldn't it be great
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: if we could go over there and do what you
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  Speaker 2: want to do?
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  Speaker 3: Oh?
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  Speaker 2: That would just be amazing, wouldn't it. Guess what, No,
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  Speaker 2: you're just saying it really nicely. So I call that
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  Speaker 2: giving them in fantasy what they can't have in reality.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think that it's healthy for kids to grow
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  Speaker 2: up and not hear no, because I'll tell you what,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: once they're six or eight, or ten or twelve and
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  Speaker 2: they here no for the first time, they'll fall apart.
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  Speaker 2: They've got to develop the ability to take no. In fact,
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  Speaker 2: I think that the greater your ability to take no
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  Speaker 2: and then keep on going and to persist becomes one
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: of the most important lifelong skills. So I wouldn't be
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: worrying about saying no. What I would be doing is
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: trying to work out how to say no in a
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: way that minimizes the reaction. But here's the thing. When
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: someone gets sold no, or when someone can't do something,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: no matter how you say it, there's going to be disappointment,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: there's going to be frustration. There's going to be potentially
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: an outburst, especially with a six year old boy. So
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: when that happens, let him be upset about it. Again,
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  Speaker 2: it's not our job to protect our children from all
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: of those negative emotions. If it's not appropriate for him
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  Speaker 2: to be doing something, then he can't do it, and
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: that's okay. You don't have to live into that emotion
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: with him. You don't have to magnify the emotion with him.
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  Speaker 2: You don't have to talk about his feelings as simple
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  Speaker 2: don't you just wish wouldn't it be great? Sorry, kiddo,
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  Speaker 2: not going to happen today, That's all, and then let
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  Speaker 2: it be. If you can be kind and gentle afterwards,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: if you can be relatively nonplussed and unaffected by his
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: temper tantrum, he's going to get over it really fast.
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  Speaker 2: The last thing I'll say is this, if he is
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: really upset, if this is really going on, just look
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: at him and say, hey, buddy, I know how upset
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: you are it really feels horrible when you don't get
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to do what you want to do, and then offer
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: him a hug or offer him some space. Do you
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: want to hug, do you want to talk about it?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Or just want to do you just want to be
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: left alone? He'll let you know once he works through
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: a process that emotion, he'll be okay again. That's the process,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: the whole pandering to our kids, becoming our children's therapists
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: making their emotions king. That's not helpful and that's not healthy.
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  Speaker 2: It's not growing resilient kids. That big emotion that your
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: child's feeling. It's like a train going into a tunnel.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Some tunnels are long and dark and deep, but the
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: train always comes out at the other end of the tunnel.
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  Speaker 2: Same goes here his emotion or subside. And if you
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: can be soft and kind and gentle as you say no,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: and soft and kind and gentle when the train comes
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  Speaker 2: out the other side, he'll be all right. Let me
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  Speaker 2: restate the answer is no. Don't you wish you could?
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  Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be great? Oh buddy, you're really upset. I
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: get it. Do you want to hug? Do you want
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: to talk? Or do you just want some space they're
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Once things are calm, you can ask him if he
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: wants to talk about it or if you just want
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: to get on with life, and that should be all
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: you need to do. Thanks so much for your questions.
• 15:25
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• 15:28
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• 15:32
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• 15:36
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