Latest / 8 Years To Live / What About Mercy? | With Missy Young
Transcript
- speaker-0: Every person has a story. Some shape us, some break us, and some help us heal. Join Sisters Kim and Bibi as they explore mental health, trauma, relationships, and personal growth through honest conversations, lived experiences, and professional insights. Because understanding your story can change the way you live it. This is Eight Years to Live. I have gone into a coma. I would just say Maria Shrug. Yes, yes. Why do we have so many nicknames for each other? It's a good question. Because medical trauma is one of the most underrecognized forms of trauma. Who are you gonna talk to when I die? He's already telling you you've got speaker-1: Extra. speaker-0: Baby, is it you? Is it really, really you Kimmy, Mao? I don't know what to call you today. It's really me. W W. I'm at home. I think my husband's home. He's getting ready to go for a mountain bike ride and I am recording a podcast. WWW. I'm at home too. I think my husband, so actually I know he's home because he's been helping me with this podcast because I am not tech savvy. speaker-1: You? speaker-0: And I'm also recording a podcast. Yay! And for those of of our listeners that don't know, WWW is where are you? What are you doing? And who are you with? Those were always my questions whenever I would call you and be like, Where are you? I need to talk to you. Call text instead of SOS WWW. Exactly. So you have heard me talk a lot about somebody. Mm-hmm. Tell me what you've heard me say about this somebody that I've been mentioning a whole bunch. I have heard the name Missy in so many ways. And it wasn't until recently that I looked her up myself. I listened to a podcast that you sent me. You've told me she's involved in a ⁓ prison ministry. ⁓ you've told me a little bit about her life and how she got into the ministry. I kid you not, the first things I said to you after I heard a podcast with her is I am obsessed with Missy Young. Obsessed. Like everything about her, her presence is so sincere. She's so straightforward. I thought I don't know if she knows about the color code, but she's probably a red. I was like, this lady is a straight shooter. Everything that comes out of her mouth, I'm like, ⁓ Yep, she just tells it how it is. ⁓ in such a loving way, very down to earth. I listened to this same podcast three times, back to back. I was like, one more time. One more time. Nope, one more time. So everything you have said, you've talked so highly about her. I can confirm that is one million percent true. She is gold. The real deal. Yes. Humble. Yes. Yes. and genuine and sincere and she's little like her stature is like little but her presence is powerful it is fire and so with all that missy young I don't even know how to introduce you other than fire powerhouse power speaker-2: Yes. Thank you. speaker-1: I'm really honored that you guys would have me on your podcast. Thank you. speaker-0: It's an honor to meet you. Wait till you meet her in person and you're like, ⁓ my gosh. speaker-2: She's so little. speaker-0: I'll just put her in my pocket. speaker-2: Yes, she said that to me yesterday. you just want to put these women in your pocket? Yes. speaker-0: Like, don't you just and I'm like, Yeah. She just loves so hard. It's really it rubs off on you. Like, I'm like, ⁓ she's loving that heart. I want to love that hard too. It's so awesome. Missy, tell us a little bit about like who you are, what you do, because what you're doing right now is you're retired. speaker-1: She's ⁓ sort of. speaker-2: I'm sort of retired. speaker-1: I mean I I don't think I'm retired in the way that I envisioned retirement would be. retirement, you know, according to my husband, just means I'm now unemployed, but I'm no less busy. So ⁓ and it's funny, I haven't been accused of being little, I'm usually accused of being too much. So I'm a lot and that's okay. That's the way God made me. And yes, I am a red. I when I took that test I'm seventy-seven percent red and the rest of me is half blue and half yellow and zero white. I have zero fear of confrontation. So that has served me well in my career. I was in technology for 25, 30 years or so. ⁓ the last 20 years of my career I spent at an incredible company here in Las Vegas called Switch. And ⁓ we sold the company a few years back and that was when I retired from doing technology. And now I do a lot of work in the prisons. I'm on various nonprofit boards, I'm starting my own nonprofit, and I am a wife and a mother to two grown sons and ⁓ I have a vast circle of girlfriends who I absolutely adore and ⁓ Jesus is the center of my life. So that's basically me in a nutshell. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. I was gonna mention that. Exactly. That was one thing I was gonna say that I noticed in the interview that I listened to is I can one hundred percent tell that you are a God fearing, Jesus loving woman. Everything that comes out of your mouth that is truth, I can tell it's biblical truth. And that's something I so appreciate. speaker-1: ⁓ thanks. Yeah, it's it's been he Jesus has been my savior since I was in junior high and ⁓ I think in college I I fell away a bit like most college kids do but ⁓ as my life has gone on I've realized more and more that I can do nothing without him and without him I I'm I am nothing, truly. You know, I'm everything I do is because it's what he wants me to do. And if it's not what he wants me to do, I don't want any part of it. speaker-0: And you feel it. Like whenever I'm around you, it's like you're living it out. You're truly living it out. It's not like somebody says, ⁓ you know, I go to church and then it's like you just feel like, ⁓ I don't know, I'm feeling something shady over there. Like you know, like something's different and whatever it is, I want that. speaker-1: Well, I'm not ⁓ I'm not one to sit idly by and and watch other people be mistreated. It's not part of who I am and so I'm I'm definitely a person who favors action always. And that's not right for everybody. You know, that's not and that's not right for everybody in every season. You know, for me in this season it's definitely something that I feel God's put on my heart to ⁓ advocate for the incarcerated. Not to say that they shouldn't have to pay the penalty for the laws that they've broken, but to say well While they are in captivity, let's heal their brains. Let's truly bring them some healing so that when they get out, they can live different lives, stay sober, hold down jobs, pay taxes, not have to go back to prison. If we don't heal their brains while they're incarcerated, basically they just get traumatized further, and all we've really done by locking them up is delay their next crime. Because 95% of them are getting out. So that's that's where I focus my attentions now. But I would never have said it if you'd asked me. twenty years ago what I would be doing with my life right now would not be going into prison and jail on a regular basis. That would never have even entered my mind. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: So, but I I walked through some really hard things in the last four years that ⁓ changed my life. ⁓ it started when ⁓ back well, you know, it's funny, in 2020 when the pandemic hit, I remember thinking, well, it sure can't get worse than this. Boy, was that something I should never have said. I should never those words should never have come out of my mouth, never dare God in that way. ⁓ but ⁓ in 2021, my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And she started her journey in chemotherapy, and it was really brutal. And while she was going through that, my stepdad ⁓ died mysteriously, just died on the floor one day. We still don't know why, he wasn't sick, nothing was wrong with him. And then shortly after that, my oldest son was act ⁓ he accidentally shot and killed his best friend, and so he was arrested for murder. And then shortly after that, as I'm putting my mother into hospice, I discovered I also had cancer. All of this was happening during a very large concentrated effort to sell our company. So I had, you know, a thousand employees looking at me like, okay, yeah, but you're coming to work tomorrow, right? speaker-0: Never mind. speaker-1: In spite of everything you're going through, you're still coming to work, right? Well it was really hard. It was it it part of the trauma of it was that it all happened at once. Yeah. And so I couldn't process one thing before another thing happened. And I then I couldn't process that because something else was happening. And now my mother is in hospice and dying and I I have my own cancer treatment journey coming, which I postponed in order to take care of her during her last you know, to help my brother and I sort of tag teamed her. care and I so I was going down to Phoenix a lot to to stay with her and be with her in her last days. But I never told her that I had cancer too because she was on a lot of drugs at the time and it would have crushed her to know that she was gonna die and leave me to deal with this. And you know, of course as a daughter I very much wanted my mother's support during that time but it just felt to me like it would have been so selfish to to put that sort of a burden on shoulders that were no longer strong enough to bear. it and so I never told her. But I did postpone it until after she passed. ⁓ which was really scary for me because I'm going, you know, am I hurting my own chances by postponing this treatment? but luckily it it all it all worked out and so I She passed away in April, we laid her to rest, and then May 11th we announced the sale of our company and then May 18th I had my double mastectomy and then developed the treatment and everything after that. So so I yeah, so three weeks after the surgery was when I got the drains out, and then my husband drove me up to our cabin in Utah, and I just sat there on the back porch for a month, really, just speaker-0: Goodness. speaker-1: Just catatonic almost, like I just couldn't function. I was so overwhelmed with all of these things and my mother's death and my own cancer journey and and our son still facing trial and you know, all the things that came with that. And so I would do my therapy appointments remotely, you know, while I was in Utah. And I would sit there with my Bible and read the Bible and talk to God and I would listen to the birds and watch the deer go by and hear the wind in the treetops and it was the first time in my life I ever truly rested. You know, I I mean I've never really understood what is rest. How how does one rest? You know, as a as a you know, very career driven person who was also raising kids and and you know trying to be all things to all people all the time and get all the things done and be as red as I could possibly be, you know. ⁓ I didn't know what rest was and I think we can all agree family vacations are not rest. speaker-2: No. speaker-1: Right. You gotta go and you gotta be there and you gotta do things, you gotta schedule and you gotta take care of people and you know all that. That none of that. And so for a month it was really just me and God working it all out. And occasionally my amazing therapist Josie. ⁓ help helping me process what I was feeling and dealing with because it was a lot. speaker-0: Yeah, I was gonna say your therapist must have been like top tier because to handle all of that all at once, concrete loss, ambiguous loss, like all these things speaker-1: Well here's what's crazy. So and she is Josie's amazing, best therapist in Nevada in my opinion. Not not that I've seen a bunch of other therapists to judge her by, but in my opinion she's the greatest. ⁓ but ⁓ after my double mastectomy, nine days after the surgery, I had my first post surgery appointment with her online 'cause I'm I can't leave the house. I'm still I'm too still recovering. But the very day before my husband started f showing symptoms of he was sick. And so he takes a test and he has COVID. And so I take a test and I also had COVID. This is nine days after my surgery. And so and I'm and I'm sitting there, I'm going, God, I cannot cough right now. Yeah. Like my my whole entire is so injured. Please, I cannot be sick right now. And thankfully, I had no symptoms at all. I I tested positive, but no coughing, nothing. And so my husband My husband moved into the guest room so that he didn't, you know, bring more sickness over to me. And so my younger son, Nate, he was home from college and he's running back and forth. This one needs soup and that one needs Tylenol, and that one needs a blanket, and this one need you know, he earned his keep that week. He was su just heart of gold that one. And but I had my first appointment with Josie and I told her, I said, You're not gonna believe this. And this is on top of everything else. I said, I have COVID. And my therapist says, unbelievable. And I said That's how you know your life is really messed up when you shock your therapist. You know? That's how you know you've really got it bad. So ⁓ but yeah I speaker-2: Yes. speaker-0: This was your very first the very first time you meet Josie, all these things have already happened. speaker-1: No, I I'd been seeing her. This was just my first post surgery appointment. Thankfully I had started seeing Josie right before everything fell apart. speaker-0: Okay, okay. speaker-1: And so I I'd be working on processing the first thing and then the second thing happens and then the third thing and then the fourth thing and the you know and I call I remember after my son got arrested I said I need you to I I remember I said I need you to like clear half a day for me. 'Cause it's all crumbling apart. It's all falling to pieces. And especially when my son got arrested, that was that was the worst. You know, when we got that phone call and so my son had my son Dakota was eight years old when I became his mom. I adopted him. And he came with a lot of childhood trauma that we did not understand. And we took with he's my husband's biological son, but he had spent years fighting for custody of him. And had just gotten custody a couple of years prior. speaker-0: Does he have foster child first or speaker-1: because of the actions of the birth mother. And the birth mother would repeatedly abandon him and all of these horrible things. And so ⁓ but nothing that was provable to the court until something terrible happened. ⁓ then the court was made aware then he was able to get custody. These and you know, it basically confirmed everything he'd been saying, but courts are always predisposed to the mother. And so right. So my husband and I were high school sweethearts. And in Delaware of all places, and the right response is Delaware? 'Cause no one knows. And that's probably never and that's okay, you're not missing anything. But we were high school sweethearts and then we broke up and fourteen years later he found me on classmates.com. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ my god speaker-1: My gosh. And this was as I was getting divorced from my first husband. And so we got back together and we've been back together ever since actually like twenty-three years now, which is amazing. ⁓ my god. And so I became mother to Dakota and I actually went to court and terminated the birth mother's parental rights so that I could adopt him. And my ex husband ⁓ did not want to retain his parental rights because he w did not want to pay child support. So he he left us and left our lives, I should say, and then ⁓ we've never heard from him again. And so my younger son is the product of my first marriage. And so my my husband Dan, my high school sweetheart, he adopted my son. So I adopted his son, he adopted my son, and so we have a blended family, but with no visitation, which is really rare. So the boys growing up together, they're about seven years apart, ⁓ but them growing up together, each one of them has an absent birth parent in common. So it was never never a secret in our house. It was never a you know, it was always like, hey, you guys want to talk about that? Let's talk about it. It's not off top it's not off limits. You know, w we don't want it to be anything that anybody's afraid to discuss. So all of Dakota's childhood trauma though really came out in his teen years and it manifested in addictions to drugs and alcohol. And we had taken him in his like early teen years, like in eleven, twelve, thirteen, various counselors. And of course, therapy back then was nowhere near as as far along as it is today. And so we kept trying to figure out what's the deal with him because it was ⁓ we he just he couldn't make a good decision to save his life. He was just all over the place and constantly misbehaving and we always in trouble, always suspended or expelled, and like it just that it was just a nightmare constantly. And every counselor we took him to said, well he's he's Immature for his age, he's probably a couple years behind his peers, and and he's ADHD, so you should put him on Ritalin. And that's speaker-0: Wow, that's the answer. speaker-1: Of that's it. And we were like, no, but what why is he like this? Like how do we solve the problem without just putting a band-aid on it of medicate medication? You know, we don't want that either. so we we just, you know, we tried to get help and the help was just not there. And so we're struggling, we're trying to figure things out. And at 17 ⁓ we took him out of high school and put him in the online school, and my husband basically stood over him every day and to make sure that he finished the program and got. degree. He said whatever happens, I'm gonna make sure he graduates. So he graduates, he moves out and just goes full on into that life of drugs and alcohol and all the things. And finally during COVID we convinced him to come back home and he comes back home and then we convinced him to go into treatment. And so he went down to the meadows. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. How did you do that? Sorry, how did you convince him to come home and go into treatment? speaker-1: Well his life pretty much was falling apart and he was in trouble with the law for a couple of things and we were like, Hey, come home, let's get you sorted out, you know, let's let's help you get back on track. You know, maybe he's grown up a little bit and wants to change now, you know, and so we brought him back home. And then ⁓ there was an he was not supposed to be going anywhere, but he did and he got a DUI. And so we were like, Okay, now you need to get treatment. You know, it's either that or remove out. It's either treatment or you can't live here. And so he he agreed that he had a problem and that he needed treatment and so we got him to agree to go to the meadows ⁓ in Prescott, Arizona. And so he did six weeks of inpatient treatment there. And then he did six months in a men's rehab also in Prescott. And then six another speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Immediately after the six weeks he went into the speaker-1: went straight from the meadows into the rehab, which is great because we didn't want him to have any time out. And then he did another six months in a sober living community called the Tree House, which is an amazing program. And ⁓ we we were very hopeful, you know, we had ha we we were starting to feel like, okay, like I think, you know, maybe he's got this and you know, he's not gonna relapse maybe or you know, we're we're feeling hopeful and we hadn't felt hopeful in a long time because if you if you love someone who's an addict They have issues and they lie and they deceive you and they cheat and steal and you know and over and over again and this is this cycle of a of anger and hope and then anger and then hope and you know it's just a constant battle. And so I think at which point speaker-0: when he was in rehab coming out, you're like, You're getting all the hope. speaker-1: Like twenty five to twenty six. And so and then as when he was twenty six, that's when we we got the phone call that he had been arrested for murder. And speaker-0: Your younger son, Nate, was twenty one. Was he still speaker-1: Yes. College? No, he was in college. He was up at University Nevada Reno at the time. He's already he's graduated since then. But so so we get this phone call. My husband and I just sat down to eat ⁓ like a brunch at home. We're just it's just the two of us at home and he gets this call and I could hear what's being said. And and he stands up from our kitchen table a and and I remember just feeling this crystallized knowledge of everything in our lives is now gonna be separated into before this phone call and after this phone call. Like everything in our lives is gonna be different from this exact moment on. It was like B C and A D in our lives. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: It it was it was a bizarre moment and then trying to figure out what happened. Like what do you what do you mean he shot some shot and killed someone? How how is that even possible? He doesn't own a gun. Like it wa you know, and so it turns out he and his ⁓ best friend who he met while he was in recovery, they had gone off the wagon together for whatever reason about a month prior and they ended up at a party where the guy whose apartment it was left his gun on the nightstand and so my son and And the deceased were both high and using drugs allegedly, and so they start playing around with this gun and passing it back and forth and pretending they were in a movie and loading it and unloading it, and the worst thing that could have happened happened. And it could have just as easily been my son on the end on the other end. ⁓ my gosh. It wasn't. His mother is gonna see this. That's all I could think of is his mother. So I'm gonna have to see these. ⁓ images too because they're burned in my brain I'm sure they're burned in so horrible so horrible and so now I'm furious at my son and then the next five minutes later I'd be sobbing speaker-0: Yeah. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: over the tragedy of it and what you know the what's now hap the trauma for Adam's family, the trauma for our family, you know, the loss of Dakota in a in our lives and his possibilities and his future. It's all gone. And we didn't know at the time, is he gonna get sentenced to life in prison? Is he gonna get twenty five to life? Like we don't know what's gonna happen. And so my husband says we need to hire an attorney to defend him. And and I remember going, Are you kidding me right now? Just spent about a hundred thousand dollars on his treatment. speaker-0: Yeah, since we're speaker-1: Been patient, six months in amends rehab, six months in sober living, all that. I'm like, and now we gotta spend more money. And so we start looking, and just to hire an attorney on, just just for the retainer to defend a murder charge to get a decent attorney, it was one hundred thousand dollars. ⁓ my gosh. And I'm like, we've to spend another hundred thousand dollars on top of the other one hundred thousand dollars that we just spent, and now someone's dead? Are you kidding me? Like I could not wrap my brain around it. It was a and and then like I was just so angry at him sometimes I couldn't see straight and then I'd be crying and then I'd be raging and then I'd be s sobbing again. Like it was the emotions were just all over the place. And so one night I'm I'm praying, I'm talking to God and I'm I'm kind of raging at God and I'm and I'm pleading with God and I'm like, God this is too much. My mom has cancer, my mom's dying, my stepdad just died and now my son's facing murder charge. Like this is too much for us. That I we can't handle it. It's too much. Please speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Show us some mercy. We need mercy, Lord. And then, clear as a bell, I heard this voice, still small voice inside my right ear, and it said to me, You keep asking me for mercy. What about you? Where is your mercy for your son? ⁓ and I remember going, like that's not something I would have thought myself in that moment. You know, and I just went. speaker-0: Wow, dang. ⁓ well. speaker-1: Okay, I can't deny that I just heard that. And I said, Okay, do I really, really understand what mercy is? Maybe I need to understand it better. So I go to my Bible lab, I do a word search, and of course mercy's throughout the Bible, but where I was particularly drawn to was Luke chapter six, where Jesus Himself is saying, Pray for those who curse you, bless those who abuse you, give without expecting to be repaid, treat other people the way you want to be treated. You must be merciful just as you. Your father is merciful. And I remember thinking about that and going, Okay, Lord, I hear you, I hear that you want me to be merciful to Dakota, but I don't feel merciful. I feel angry, really angry. And I heard the voice again, and it said, That's okay, just be obedient. speaker-0: Wow. So bad. I think we've heard that, like all of us have heard that at some point in our lives. But the fact that you heard it and it I'm assuming you were obedient just based on what you're gonna say next, that's hard. Be angry and obedient. speaker-1: It was hard and it wasn't hard. I had this moment where I thought, okay, I think in this moment being merciful means pay the one hundred thousand dollars and hire the attorney. That's that's where mercy's gonna start. All right. If I obey the living God of the universe who created me and created Dakota, can I go wrong with that? Probably not. Right? Like is that Kind of a a a sure thing. If I obey God. Right, right. Absolutely. Even if I can't see the outcome, even if I don't know what he's gonna do with it, even if my feelings are not lining up with what he's telling me to do, am I safe in obeying the God of the universe? Yes. It's pretty sure that so okay, fine God, I will be merciful. And I told my husband, Yes, let's hire the attorney. And literally from the moment I said those words, all the anger I had at my son started to evaporate. And I mean like a miraculous, just a speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: erasure of all the feelings of anger that I've ever carried at him for all of the years of frustration. It's gone. And it's still gone. And there's nothing that that young man can do to make me angry. And I'm not saying that's a challenge. But it's gone. All the anger I carried against him is gone. And we now have a better relationship than we've ever had. speaker-0: Wow. speaker-1: Wow. It's a miracle. And God is at the heart of it. And but I learned, you know what when I was crying out to him for mercy, what I really wanted was comfort. Same. Well, I learned that obedience brings comfort. Yeah. And I would never have learned that if I had not walked through that. speaker-0: More. speaker-2: fire. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: And so I would not recommend going through anything like I would I went through, especially with everything happening at once, but I would never trade it for anything. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: For as close as I became to God and the the the lur the just the way he taught me and how I learned what it was he wanted to teach me. And then also I noticed that he really kind of did a number on my heart because just randomly, you know, you'll you'll be scrolling and you'll see an article about somebody who's been arrested, you see somebody's mugshot. I started going, ⁓ that was somebody's baby. That was a child once. What happened? What happened to that man? What happened to that woman to get them to this place where they could do the things they're accused of doing? Like, what's their story? Because I certainly know my son has a story. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: My son is not a monster. My son was not evil. He did not do it on purpose. He did it, but he didn't mean to do it. And he was silent for about a month after the shooting because he was so despondent over what happened. It was his best friend. He did not mean to do that. ⁓ speaker-0: Mm-hmm. No. What were your thoughts prior to that? Like of people that were in prison or that had committed murder? How did speaker-1: I can't really say I considered him that much. I didn't have like ⁓ just throw lock lock him up, throw away the key kind of feelings. ⁓ but I also didn't have a ⁓ let's let's rehabilitate them kind of thoughts either. I just it didn't it had never affected me, it had never shown up in my life, I knew no one who had done time, I nobody in my family. It was just not something that I ever had experience with. But I have experience with it now. And it has it has changed my life and the things that I've learned about the judicial system and and the criminal justice system and the prison system. For instance, it costs a hundred thousand dollars to get good representation. I remember thinking at the time, going, that's not fair. But it I was so in the middle of in the thick of it, you know, of all the crisis that I was like, okay, I can't think about that right now. I I gotta solve our problems. I can't work on other people's problems. And then when I got through that, you know, afterwards I started looking back going, Wait, that's not fair that it costs that much money for good representation. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: What does everyone else do? And so the first week my son is in jail, because they don't go to prison until after they've been sentenced. So he's in jail and he asked to speak to a therapist because he's suicidal. He said I'd really like to speak to a therapist or a counselor. He remembered he's had a year of treatment, so he knows the benefits of having a therapy session. And so the one of the officers says, Yeah, no problem, we'll get somebody for you. So they put him in a room, and this woman comes in with a yellow Little pad of paper and a pencil, and she says, she pushes it in front of him. She says, Okay, here, go ahead and write down everything that happened that night. And he says, ⁓ it wait, what? I d I don't I don't really think I'm supposed to do that. And she said, No, no, it's gonna make you feel better, it'd be a great place for us to start, help you get your feelings straight, you know, get your memories in order. So let's go ahead and write down everything that happened that night. And his spidey sense is tingling. He goes, I don't think that this is a good idea, I'm not gonna do that and he goes, And I don't wanna talk to you anymore. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: So about it was about a week later, so two weeks into his arrest that we got the attorney hired, and I told the attorney about that, and he said, ⁓ I'll put a stop to that right away. I said, But what is that? And he said, When the state is paying for both both your prosecution and your defense, they will send people at you in the jail six ways from Sunday trying to get a confession out of you because it saves them time and money. gosh. ⁓ speaker-0: Mm-hmm. I didn't even ⁓ speaker-1: Well here's the thing, I remember going, wait a minute, i that brings up an interesting point. If the state is paying for both your prosecution and your defense, isn't that a massive conflict of interest? And he said, Yes. He goes, Of course it is. He said, but who else is gonna defend these people? speaker-0: Wow, ⁓ my gosh. speaker-1: So that was just the beginning of my experience with all of this. And then he got, you know, we ⁓ he accepted a plea ⁓ bargain, so he got sixteen years, no parole. So he is four year a little over four years into his sixteen year sentence in Arizona in a prison. And he is in a prison that is run by a for-profit corporation who was traded on the New York Stock Exchange and their revenues last year were two billion dollars. They're just one of several companies. speaker-0: Rewind what? Okay, ⁓ a prison that's traded on the Okay. speaker-1: Yeah. New York Stock Exchange. It's a publicly traded company. There's several of them. And not all prisons are like that. In Nevada, we only have one comp one prison that's run by a for profit company. It's and it's the ICE facility in Perump. It's a federal prison, because that's an ICE facility, so that's all done by so but all the state prisons in Nevada are operated by Nevada's Department of Corrections and not for profit companies. So Nevada actually made a rule against that, which is good, but ⁓ they all have their issues. But the for profit stuff just blows me away. that their revenues were two billion dollars off the backs of inmates. speaker-0: Do people know this? I don't feel I have never heard of anything like this. speaker-1: Well again, nobody really talks about it because people don't care about the inmates. Right. It's such a foreign thing. I'll give you well, I'll give you another example. There's a there are a handful of prisons in Arizona that have no air conditioning. Thankfully my son is in a prison that does have air conditioning. ⁓ but one of the prisons is in Yuma, which is one of the hottest places on earth and it has no AC. And so it's from what I've read, it can get up to a hundred and twenty inside. speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: ⁓ Can you imagine just the smell? I mean on top of the heat, the smell of all those men. I mean just absolutely barbaric and yet it happens in our country. So that prison was allocated some funding to retrofit some of the buildings with air conditioning units. So there was a a news article about that. And on social media in the comments, the comments go like, Well, they shouldn't have committed crime. speaker-0: That's inhumane. Mm, mm-hmm. speaker-1: You know, if you don't want to suffer like that, then don't go to prison. Or what do we care? They're just animals anyway. ⁓ And I'm going, no, they're they're people and they're getting out. Ninety five percent of inmates are getting out. Yep. And so we're gonna traumatize them even further. So there's a guy who was my son's cellmate in jail for a little while and his name is Levi. And I love that he has a biblical name, but ⁓ he was born in a meth lab. And all of his earliest memories are of his mother cooking meth. And he remembers his mother would say to him on occasion, Don't worry, sweetie, we'll just stay here until the walls turn brown and then we'll go somewhere else. speaker-0: Wow. speaker-1: And so that was his that was all of his early childhood experiences. He was around meth addicts all the time, breathing that in, and he was certainly not prepared for school. He was never taken to church. There was never a healthy adult in his life to come alongside of him and say, Hey, let's help you get in a safe place. Let's help you get life figured out. So at eight years old, she gets busted and sent to prison. He gets put into a group home where he is repeatedly molested. Where does he end up? Addicted to meth and in prison. What other chance did he have? And now society will look at this guy someday and say, when he gets out, ugh, you got what you deserve. You know, you're just scumbag. And you go, ⁓ careful. speaker-2: Thanks speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Think of him as that little boy. Like you wouldn't see a little boy and think scumbag, you would think that poor child. Like let's get him help. And he's still that same little child in an adult body. speaker-1: I'm like anything that that he says, you know, about I am coming to free the captives. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. Exactly. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: You know, that's part of the prophecy about the Messiah that he will set set the captives free. You know, and when we say, ⁓ that's what they deserve, I'm like, ⁓ careful with that word deserve. speaker-0: The first will be last and the last will be first. speaker-1: Yes, but the thing is people go, Well, I want you know, I I expect justice and fairness and judgment for people who commit crime. But when it comes to me, I want mercy, I want grace. And so you go, ⁓ wait a minute. You know, it either has to be for all or it's for none. Because the criminal on the cross next to Jesus speaker-0: Exactly. speaker-1: He said, Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus said, Today you will be with me in paradise. He didn't say, Well, what did you do to get up here? Why are you on the cross? He are Jesus already knew. And it didn't matter. He said, Because you called me Lord, you will be with me in paradise. Without requiring him to do anything other than that. And so I I go, okay, that's that has to be my attitude. speaker-0: Here. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: to the inmates. And it is. I have such compassion for them. I just I g I walk I walk in there to work with these guys, Kim, you know them and two J, our two J unit out at the North Valley complex here. And some of them, like if you just take them on face value, they look pretty scary. But that's not how I see them. As children. I see them as scared little boys. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Because what's amazing, what is so amazing what God did for me is that, you know, when God looks at me, because I am a follower of Jesus, he doesn't see all the horrible things I've ever done. He just sees Jesus in me. He sees his son in me. And when I look at the inmates, all I can see is my son in them. speaker-0: ⁓ my gosh. Wow, that's beautiful. speaker-1: This is all to the glory of God because he did this change in my heart. He wrought this this work, this miracle in me to be able to see things, to be able to see these human beings the way that he sees them. And to say, no, they have they have gifts, they have talents, they have a purpose, there's a reason they're here on this earth. I need to help them find out what that is. Yes. And so that's that's kind of what I've d dedicated my life to doing. speaker-0: And they're no different than we are. Right. Yes. That they are no different than we are. We just we have the same sin. Theirs is just outward and ours might be inward. Well hold on. speaker-1: What was that BBL? I like to say we're all criminals, we just haven't all been caught. You know, I I I ask people, have you did you ever work for tips? And they're like, ⁓ yeah, I was a server back in college, whatever. I'm like, did you always report every dollar to the IRS? speaker-0: Yes, absolutely. Hundred percent. ⁓ huh. speaker-1: I'll bet not. You know, I was speeding on the freeway the other day and I was like, ⁓ I better slow down. I might end up in my outclass, you know. I mean we've all done things that could potenti and and I'll tell you what, you go speeding on the free you don't even have to be drunk, but you make one mistake and take out another car ⁓ kills somebody, guess where you're gonna be? You're going to prison. Yes. Reckless driving speaker-0: Newfound revelation that you've gotten. Like, how can a viewer like understand that better? Because for you, like you've lived it. And e even just in telling a story, like I'm meeting with these people and I think like I recognize I should be in prison for the things that I've done. I should be there. And so it's I can connect with them. But for those that haven't been able to do that, like what would you suggest? Like how could you help them change their view or their attitude? speaker-1: It i it's much it makes a lot more sense if you are truly a follower of Christ. Because Jesus always he came in grace and truth. He preached grace and truth. And so the truth is they should have to pay a penalty for breaking the law. Our society has to have laws, there has to be ⁓ punishment for laws broken, otherwise society would fall apart, it would be anarchy, all those things. So those things, you know, keep order. So that is the truth. The grace part is yes, we should try to heal their brains while we have them. Yes, we should show them some compassion. Yes, we should make sure that they ⁓ know that they are not forgotten, that they do have a purpose, that there is a chance that they could live a different life, that employers will give them a second. Chance even after they've paid their dues, right? The the that's the grace part, and we all want grace, right? We don't all just want the truth, we want truth and grace, and so it's that and in the middle. They have to go together where we go, yes, we should keep people. If somebody breaks in and robs my house, I want them to be held accountable for doing that. But it also means there's an and in there where we go, and let's figure out what happened to them that they needed to break into my house and steal stuff. What's speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: What's going on their lives? What was their childhood like? What is the trauma that they have faced? Because if we can help them heal from that, I mean 'cause ⁓ there's a very large number, ⁓ you know, definitely a majority of inmates have some sort of addiction issue. Why? speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Why do they have an addiction issue and how do we help them solve that? Because if we don't, guess where they're gonna go when they get out? They're going straight back to their addiction. But the other challenge is when they get out, even if they want to live a different life, now they're faced with no one wants to hire them because they have a record. No one wants to rent them an apartment because they have a record. And so at some point, if they cannot get work, if they cannot get a place to live, they're going back to crime. Why wouldn't they? They've got to eat. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: You know, or they have war depending on them to pay for food and shelter and all that, and if nobody's gonna hire them, I mean my son is gonna get out of prison in a little less than twelve years with a second degree murder conviction. We've gotta figure out what are we gonna help them do when he gets out so that he can work and stay employed. Then what about all the inmates who don't have parents like us who can do that? speaker-0: Yeah. I love the ⁓ more speaker-1: Exactly. And that's a lot more than than there are not. So anyway, go ahead. speaker-0: Yes, no, the warden's ⁓ viewpoint is who do you want your neighbor to be? They're getting out. And if they have been rehabilitated, I would want them as my neighbor and if they haven't, they're gonna come rob me. Mm-hmm. Exactly. speaker-1: Yeah. So the it's interesting to me that in this country we call these organizations the Department of Corrections. Yeah. Because the idea is it's supposed to correct the behavior. But there's not a lot of correcting going on. I o I honestly think that overall in the country in this country it should be called the Department of Punishment. Yep. Because some of the conditions are so bad that speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: they're just worse. They're they're traumatized further. ⁓ the other thing that happens is the ⁓ the racially based gang violence that happens in the men's prisons. It's rampant. My f my son's first day in prison he was told because he's white, you are now a member of the white gang. And you will step up and defend your white brothers or we will smash you out of here. Meaning you're leaving in an ambulance or dead. speaker-0: Wow shoot. speaker-1: And so he's kind of become known as the guy who can fix things, which is great. ⁓ it gives him some measure of stability, but that could change in a minute. And so ⁓ I remember going to visit him one time and I said speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: W there seems like a smaller prison off to the side. Is that like a women's prison yard or something? And he said, ⁓ no, that's for the Pacific Islanders. And I said, What do you mean? He goes, you know, like Filipinos and Indonesians and and Tongans, Samoans, Hawaiians, they're all there in that yard. And I'm like, they separate them? And I said, Why? He said, Yeah, you it's too violent. If you put them with the blacks, whites and the browns, it's too much violence, so they they get their own prison yard. I was like, ⁓ my gosh. What I read a blog about By a guy who used to be an inmate, and he got out and he said, He goes, You know, I've seen white men come into prison without a racist bone in their bodies, and yet they leave prison with an 88 tattooed on their face, and that's the symbol for Heil Hitler. And now they take this new racism home to their families and their children, because they've learned in prison that I'm only safe with people who are the same color as me. speaker-0: Department of Corrections. What are we correcting? Exactly. speaker-1: Well here's the thing, for-profit prison companies and sometimes the states let this go on and are fine with the gangs doing this because it keeps their costs down. ⁓ Because then they don't necessarily have to hire as many pol as many officers. speaker-0: So we're just gonna let the prisoners run the prison. Well that exactly. speaker-1: Let the gangs run it, let the gangs order. Mm-hmm. And then that's here on us. speaker-0: ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. It's so backward. speaker-1: some of the things that I've that I've learned. Yeah, so it's it's hard, you know, because when you go in there ⁓ when I go in there into the jail or the prison I I'm I'm faced with so much trauma that it it's It's such a wonderful thing that God did in helping me find such an amazing therapist. You know, 'cause I've done over a a thousand hours of therapy myself in in various modalities, a lot of it with Josie, but some of it was neurofeedback, ⁓ some of it was brain spotting, like there's been multiple modalities. Plus my my my husband and I also go see a marriage therapist together. So I mean there's just been so much therapy and self care in the last few years, which is great. But that's what enables me to go in and work with these human beings. Because if I I I say that because I s a lot of my friends are like, ⁓ I want to come in and help. And I'm like, I I love that you want to, but if you haven't dealt with your own junk, you cannot come in and and have them trauma dump all over you and not internalize all of it. Like you have to be able to set good mental and emotional boundaries through work you've already done on yourself. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: It's a lot. It's a lot. When one of the women says, ⁓ yeah, ⁓ I was in a horrific relationship, very abusive with a man, ⁓ and I couldn't escape him and where I come from, you don't call the cops because once the cops leave, the beating you're gonna get when he comes home is gonna make you wish you'd never been born. She said, But then I found out he'd been raping my daughter, so I shot him. And I'm not sorry. She said, Of course I have lost my daughter now, 'cause I'm here. speaker-0: ⁓ shit. speaker-1: But at least she's safe from him. And you just go speaker-0: Yeah, right. speaker-1: Like I don't have a clue what that feels like. But because I've done my own work, I can empathize with her without internalizing it and taking it home. Makes sense. And and that's one of the all their stories are are just overwhelming. And you go, wow, they have taught me so much about resilience and hope and like what it's like to have faith in the darkest place. speaker-2: you speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ speaker-1: Sometimes I walk out of there feeling like I'm ten feet tall because I know I made a difference today. And other days I walk out of there feeling just incredibly depressed because the problems are so great. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: That you go, how can I ever make an impact? I mean, I sat there and watched yesterday a woman in the prison who is a a lifer, so she's life without pool, so she will never get out, she will die in that prison. And she was pleading her case to be able to care for two of the other women who are also who are older than her and are lifers and are dying. They're getting to the end. And she was pleading her case to be able to take care of them so that they could have some dignity in their final days. And she's hoping and praying. that someone steps up and does the same thing for her. And I go, I I I don't know that life. By the grace of God. And now that I see it, I cannot turn away from that. I cannot do nothing. speaker-0: ⁓ my goodness. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: So Yeah, so that's you know, are they all ready to change? No. I work with probably sixty or seventy ⁓ men and women in the jails and probably about ninety women in the women's prison and there's seven hundred and forty women in the prison. You know, I work with the the sixty men and women in the jails, but there's thirty five hundred people in the jail on any given day. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Here in Las Vegas. So not everyone's ready. One woman I mentored, Tiffany, she this is her seventh time being incarcerated, literally number seven. First six times she was not ready to change. She had no interest in changing it at all. And something about the seventh time, she said she told me, she said, I felt like, man, this life is hard. I'm tired. There's gotta be something better. And she found Jesus in jail. speaker-0: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. speaker-1: And then started coming to my class and now she's a leader in the prison and she leads Bible studies and she's completely turned her life around and she's healed her relationship with her children and she's decided when she she wants to be a therapist when she gets out. speaker-0: Wow. Incredible. speaker-1: And I'm like, that's brilliant. Let's figure out a way to make that happen. And I know there's rules with the therapy board about you can't have felonies on your record, but I think that's potentially short sighted. In in imagine the street cred. Yes. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. speaker-1: People with a similar background to go and work with former gangbangers and drug addicts, you know, and and the like. Like I'm going I think we need to, you know, have some talks with the the therapy board of examiners or whatever they're called to say, hey, can we can you create maybe exceptions? speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: 'Cause I I get it. If you have ⁓ certain convictions, like sexual convictions, things like that, no, probably not a good idea. But if that's not what you were ⁓ convicted of and you've totally changed your life around and you have ten years of documented I've never been in trouble, ⁓ you know, can we can we do something? Go ahead. Go ahead. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Your relationship with her speaks volumes because earlier you said, you know, sometimes I leave and I just think, ⁓ my gosh, this is like a systems. We need to change the system, not just like one person, like the whole system of our country needs to change. And I think you, one person, changing her life. Because when I met her yesterday, she was like, you know, Missy's changed my life. And when I, you know, started doing this program, I didn't want to do it, you know, and I had a bad attitude. And now she's a leader. She's leading a Bible study. study like she is changing already so many lives. And so we've thrown that rock into the pond, which is you, and now it's gone out and it's touched her life and she's touching other lives. And that's how the system changes, right? speaker-1: Right, that's right. And so and I I tell everybody there's there's actually three different times at which you can help. Number one is help people not ever have to go to prison. Like I look at Levi as a young boy. Where was the church? Where was the school guidance counselor? Where was the truant officer or somebody who could have potentially intervened in the in that young man's life? speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Intervene. Volunteer with the Boys and Girls Club. If you see a kid struggling, if you're if your child has a friend who's struggling, invite ⁓ to figure it out. See how you can help. Help these kids not ever have to go to prison. It's it's vi it it's so vital that we as adults keep our eyes open for kids who are struggling. You know, and this is not to bash their parents going, ⁓ their parents must be terrible. I have learned the hard way, never to judge the parents. speaker-2: You're in. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: of another child because you have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. You have no idea how hard those parents might be trying. You have no idea what trauma that child might have walked through that's making them act the way that they're acting now. I I mean I just go we have to have more curiosity. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: We have to ha we have to get curious and not furious. You know, we we can't like immediately go to anger and frustration and annoyance that this kid's having a tantrum in the grocery store. Yeah, it it could be annoying, but why? Why? Why is this kid acting out? What's going on? speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: You know, there's there's always a reason. Like kids don't don't just do that for no reason. So that's number one is intervene with kids, young adults and adults. If you see them struggling, if you see if you know somebody who's about to be homeless and you can help, help. 'Cause if they get homeless, it's not gonna go well for them. It's not gonna get better. ⁓ and also the data ⁓ in Las Vegas, I can't speak for other cities, but in Las Vegas the data here says if a young woman ends up on the street for any reason, whether she's a runaway or loses her home, whatever it is speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Within twenty-four hours she will be under the control of a pip. That's the data here in Vegas. speaker-0: ⁓ my goodness. It makes sense, but it's mind blowing. speaker-1: So mind blowing. And so intervene when you if you can in some way, in some way, shape or form. Coach Little Lee. Yeah. You know, get involved with kids and be on the lookout for kids who need help. And and again, not to bash the parents, but to go, what is going on? This is one of the reasons why I support an oli an organization called Olive Crest. Olive Crest intervenes in families that are at risk. Whether there's abuse going on or or drug use or potential homelessness or whatever it is, they intervene to figure out what is the core root of the problem here. Let's solve the core root of the problem and not let the family break up. Let's keep the families together. Let's provide them the tr the treatment that they need. the healing, the therapy, whatever the assistance, let's keep them together. Yeah, they're they operate in multiple states, especially here in Vegas. They do a really great job. So Olive Crest is a great organization to get involved with. But that's thing. There's organizations like that in every city. So if you want to help, figure out. And even if hel if you're in a season where you cannot physically do the work yourself, you can't go, write checks. speaker-0: Olive crust, I've not heard of that. Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Donate donate to the to the organizations that are doing the work. Because if you're in a season where you've got small kids at home and you and you're working and you're busy, hey I get it. We all go through those seasons. And and God is so good that He didn't bring all this to me in a season where I couldn't have done anything about it. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: You know, we were selling my company at the time all this happened. And so once I healed from can because I took four months off to heal from cancer, I came back to work kind of half and half for like a year, but I was like, I can't do this anymore. I can't do this grind and and our company's so incredible and and ⁓ it just goes at lightning speed and it's at the forefront of our industry and technology and I just said, you know what, I gotta i if you ever saw Finding Nemo when they're in the current with the turtles and they're going really, really, really fast And then when you hop out of the current, now everything's slow again. But my team is they're gone. They're in the current still. They've taken off. And so I'm back here where it's slow. Yes. Right? And that that was an adjustment. That was definitely consuming. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: like when I'm speaker-1: I miss them, but I don't I don't miss the grind, but I miss the day-to-day awesome camaraderie that we all have. So yeah. But now I'm in a season where I'm financially stable and I can do this kind of work as much of it as I want. speaker-2: that. speaker-1: And that is that is an incredible gift. I see I I'm like, Lord, I see what you've done for me and how you've placed me in in this time and place, in this season of my life, with all of the corporate training that I've had in building a business and speaking to people and raising money and doing all those things. Yeah, this is exactly when I walk into that prison and that jail and I'm working with these people, these men and women, I can feel God smiling at me. Like I go, Yes, Lord, I know I am doing exact Exactly what you want me to be doing in this moment. Like this is exactly where he's placed me. And there's there's some kind of like incredible peace and joy and confidence that comes when you are walking exactly the path that God has for you. I love it. And that's why I go whatever else God has for me on the horizon, if it's whatever it is he wants, I'll do it. But if it's not from him, I don't want any of it. speaker-0: Mm. Mm-hmm. He trained you in those years. He totally trained you for this position right now. speaker-1: That's right. Who knows what you would come into a position for such a time as this. That has gone through my mind many, many, many times. And again, if you'd asked me twenty years ago if I'd be going into the jails and prisons, not a chance. But now it's all I want to do. And someone I someone asked me out to lunch the other day and I said, ⁓ I can't today. And she said, ⁓ you have to go to the prison today, huh? And I No, no, no, no, no. I get to go to the prison. Yes. I get to go hang out with some of my favorite people. They're wonderful. Yes. Especially I mean, I shouldn't say especially. They're all wonderful. The men and the women, they they they're different, but they're wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. Some of them are sassy, some of them have good senses of humor. ⁓ some of them are incredibly profound, incredibly smart. ⁓ and curious about, you know, could I could I have a different life, maybe? And a lot of them are just regular people who made one terrible mistake. One terrible mistake. And that's why I always go, ooh, we are all just one terrible mistake away from being right there with them. And so have humility and when you think about these human beings who were created in the image of God. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. Yes. And it takes one person to believe in them and to say that to them and believe that for them until they can believe it for themselves. speaker-1: That's right. That's right. So I formed a nonprofit called Grit and Mercy, and Grit and Mercy exists to bring education and therapy directly to the inmates. whether they're incarcerated or outside of prison, ⁓ it's a chance for them to go to school and to get therapy at the same time. Because education is power. They have to have education, they have to be educated in something in order to really thrive and survive outside. But I my view is I could help someone get three PhDs, but if they don't heal from their trauma, they're still gonna. go drink themselves to death or smoke crack or whatever it is, right? Because healing from the trauma is essential in my book. And so providing them with an education and therapy all the way through. So if they're in this program, they'll be going through because because here's my argument with the universities. Every single one of you figured out how to do remote learning during the pandemic. Yeah, exactly. So what is stopping you from bringing every single degree program that you offer directly into the prisons? speaker-0: Hmm. Later. speaker-1: Like you digitized your entire library, every single school. And so all your books are available online. How do we get all that onto the tablets? Like this is what needs to happen. And so then it will pay for while you're going to school, you will have a therapist come in and meet with you once a week. Not donated therapy. I want therapists coming in who are making exactly the same amount as they would in their own private practice so that you get incredible quality work and you get people who are showing up to work. Because typically, if it's volunteer, it's kind of at the bottom of a priority list, right? Because you're going, No, I gotta make a living. You know, I have mortgage and I have things I have to pay for, and so all my paying clients take priority. Well, I want the paying clients. prison to take top priority. Right. So that's why I'm architecting it this way. So they have to see a therapist once a week. They have to do neurofeedback two or three times a week, whatever we all decide. If if addiction is part of their story, they have to go to AA or NA or Celebrate Recovery or whatever the program is as often as it's offered. And they have to have a successful drug test every other week. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: So when they're about to graduate and get out of prison, then we start pounding the pavement for them on their behalf. Let's say they're getting a four-year degree in hospitality from UNLB, best hospitality program in the world. We'll start heading out to Venetian and MGM and the Sands and everyone else, saying, Hey, I've got a candidate who's about to get out of prison. She's getting her four-year degree in hospitality, but she has also had four years of weekly therapy, 250 sessions of neurofeedback, weekly meetings at AA, and four years. years of bi weekly drug testing clean. I want you to hire her. She's worthy of a second chance. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And probably way more prepared than anybody that's not been through that program. speaker-1: Bingo. Exactly. I'm actually gonna give you a better candidate than you would get just out on the street. Yes. So this is the goal. So grit is what it's gonna take the inmates to get through the program because that's not a handout. This is them going to school, getting good grades, do doing the research papers, all the things, and doing the work of therapy, neurofeedback, AA, drug testing. Like it's a commitment. That is that is gonna take some grit. And then the mercy part is getting the community to welcome them back in. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. How can people get it get like how can people get involved with Grit and Mercy? I know that you're in the starting phases, but like you said earlier, you know, if you can't take the time to volunteer or you haven't worked your own trauma, but you have the funds or you can write, you know, a twenty dollar check instead of going to get the two Starbucks, you know, that you brought speaker-1: Yes. Here's the thing. So I didn't finish my earlier point. About the first place you can help somebody is can't help them stay out of prison in the first place. The second place, while they're in prison, you can support organizations like Grit and Mercy, ⁓ or you can volunteer to go in, or you can encourage your church to start a Bible study in there. Find out what are the organizations in town where you live, get involved and volunteer if you think that this is your calling. It's not for everyone because it's it's you know it's a lot of trauma in there, it's a dark place. You have to be able to spiritually, mentally, and emotionally and physically handle it. It's a lot. It's not it's not for everyone. It's not for the feign of heart, I guess I would say. And then the third place where you can help is when they get out, give them a chance. If you are someone who hires people, give someone with a criminal record a chance. If you are someone who rents apartment buildings, give someone with a record a chance. Like just this blanket punishment that we do to people who have records their whole lives is insane. Because what happens is when you become a felon, you are now sort of banished to this lower class caste that we have in our country, where you stay at the bottom and you remain at the bottom even though you have paid your dues. You have fulfilled every letter of the law regarding your sentencing. You have done exactly what society demanded was the retribution for the law that you broke. You did speaker-2: I'm speaker-1: everything. But society will continu our society in America, we continue to punish them for the rest of their lives. It's not fair. It's not okay. So for instance, have you ever heard of a judge giving someone a sentence of a year and a day? Have you ever heard of that happening? It happens occasionally. What that is, is that's a judge. S so let's say you're nineteen, you get a drug conviction, just drug possession or whatever, and you get a sentence of a year and a day. What that judge has done is stripped you of your gun rights for the rest of your life for a nonviolent offense. ⁓ my speaker-0: No. What speaker-1: There's no path back. So you'll be seventy-five years old, you still can't own a gun because you had a drug possession charge at age nineteen. There's the only way to get that fixed is to get a pardon from the governor of the state where your crime was committed. And that's usually impossible. They don't issue many pardons. speaker-0: ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ really gosh. Well I know that's gonna take time and money and speaker-1: And so instead of saying, Hey, okay, let's have a path To restoration. You haven't been in trouble in twenty years and it wasn't a violent offense. Okay, fill out this application and we'll have somebody take a look at it. ⁓ you know, maybe a panel, like a a board or somebody who can say, Yes, you've you've proven that you've changed it you went and got a degree, you haven't been in any trouble, you've raised a family, like, okay, you're a responsible citizen now. Let's restore this right for you. ⁓ now, violent criminals like my son, he should never own a gun, and I'm cool with that, right? That makes complete sense that he should not own a gun. That's okay. And sexual offenders probably shouldn't own a gun. You know, I mean just there's there are things where it makes sense. And when I talked to the inmates, I said when you just consider what kind of a career you want to go into, like what educational path is interesting to you, you do have to consider what were you convicted of. If you were convicted of massive tax fraud, you probably shouldn't be going to get an accountant degree. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: Right. So we but that doesn't mean that you're not able to go after tens of thousands of other educational paths. Just maybe not that one. If you have sexual crimes, you probably should not be trying to run a daycare. I mean there are there are things that you might be prohibited from doing, but there's tens of thousands of other things that you're not prohibited from doing. speaker-0: Yeah, right. speaker-1: And the small the ⁓ United States ⁓ small business administration removed the box on the application on the small business loans that says click check here if you have a felony conviction. So you no longer have to ⁓ admit that you're a felon when you're applying for a small business loan. So that's something that ⁓ people who are incarcerated need to know that if they want to start their own business when they get out. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a step in the right direction. Yes, for sure. Yeah. Missy, you are amazing and your story is written by the Lord Himself, all of our stories. And I think the biggest difference is you heard the calling and you said, Okay, I'm gonna trust you. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's so interesting. People love to say, ⁓ it's so good of you to go in there and I'm like, No, I I am compelled. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Like I I don't it this isn't something where I say, ⁓ what's my good deed gonna be for today? It's going no, I'm yes, Lord, I'm on my way of going. I'm go like I am compelled to do this. This is what he's laid on my heart as my current purpose in life is to do this. And so yeah, there's not someone said, You should be enjoying your retirement. I go, No, I this is me and this isn't enjoying my retirement. This is totally how I do that. You know, I do what God wants 'cause obedience brings comfort. speaker-0: Yeah. I love that. That is so good and so true. Yeah. So how can people find you? ⁓ do you want them to find you or do you want like what is the sending message to anybody that's listening right now? speaker-1: So I can be found ⁓ at Missy Bite, M-I-S-S-Y-B-Y-T-E. That's left over from my tech days. ⁓ but that's my social media handle, Instagram, Twitter, threads. And ⁓ gritandmercy.org, the website is coming soon, and I anyone can jump in and and help there, which would be great. And ⁓ I think the prevailing message is truth and grace. Because we have to have both. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. speaker-1: It's not being soft on crime. It's not letting criminals walk all over us. It's let's uphold the law. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: And let's provide the healing that they need. It's both. It's an and. It's not a black or white situation. It's not an either or, it is and. The power of and is something that I think we are desperately missing in our society today. It's either this way or it's that way. Mm, I don't think so. Like with immigration, I say yeah, let's uphold the law. We should only have people coming here through legal means. And we should speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Mm. speaker-1: Provide a path to citizenship for the ones who are already here and are working hard and aren't gangbangers and aren't breaking the law and are just trying to live a good life. They're already here. Maybe they it's not an easy path because they broke the law to get here. Maybe they have to do a hundred hours of community service. I don't know. But there has to be a path that is an and where we must enforce the law and show some compassion and empathy to the people who are already here. So this is this is the type of thinking that now ⁓ pervades my outlook on life is where is the and where is the and in this situation? Because I think the the black or white stuff th this way or that way is very dangerous and it it causes us to miss where Jesus might be at work in a particular situation. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. I love that. ⁓ my goodness. Yes. Yes. Wow. Thank you so much, Missy. speaker-1: My pleasure. My pleasure, ladies. Really appreciate it. speaker-0: Yes, we appreciate you and all that you're doing in so many ways. speaker-1: Thank you. And Kim, I I really appreciate that you go in now also and work with the inmates and do neurofeedback and all the wonderful things that you're doing. You know, we need more people, especially therapists, who want to come in and do this kind of work because it's it is life-changing and it is like throwing that rock into the stream, watching the pe the ripples go out, because you never you you will never understand the impact that you are having long term until we we get to heaven. I think when we get to heaven, God's gonna show us where all those ripples went because we made a brave decision to step out and be the hands and feet of Jesus. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-2: is speaker-0: Mm. It has truly, truly been an honor to meet with these people. ⁓ and the love that I have for the one specific person that I'm thinking of that's in prison, I'm like, ⁓ my gosh. Yeah, it's ⁓ everything that you said applies to her. So speaker-1: You can say Shayla, she's not a minor anymore. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: There you go. She's not a minor. She just turned 18. speaker-0: I figured that's who you were talking about. Yeah. Yeah, such an amazing person. speaker-1: Yeah, she really is. They all are. They all are. They're just diamonds in the rough, you know, just waiting to be seen. speaker-2: Yes. speaker-0: I'm so grateful for that opportunity for meeting with her, for meeting you that has opened these doors for me. It's been incredible. I've invited so many people. I'm like, go get your background checklist done. Like there's just so much that we can be doing that's amazing and speaker-1: Yeah. And we're about to start doing more. Right? We're gonna take the next step soon. So yeah, lots of exciting things to come. So really, really glad to be partnering with you on that. Yes. speaker-2: Yes. speaker-0: Same. I can't wait to hear and see what you guys do. You guys are changing the world. Thank you. Okay. Have a good have a good one. Thank you. Thank you. speaker-1: Thanks. Yeah. Bye.