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Offseason Position Reviews: Bullpen · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: What's up, everybody?
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Bucko Territory, presented to
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: you by the Fowl Territory Network.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm Noah Hiles. Joining me, as always, are.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: My co-hosts, Platinum Key, a.k.a. Mark and Josh Harrison. It
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: is Thursday, October 8th. We continue our early off-season outlook
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: on the Pittsburgh Pirates. We reviewed the starting rotation. And
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: last episode today, we take a look at the bullpen.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: So as we dive into it, let's just review what
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: this bullpen looked like this year. It was one of
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: the worst in baseball for a sizable portion of the.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Season, or at least it felt like it.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: And then it became a really good bullpen after the
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: trade deadline. It enters the offseason with You know, a
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: handful of really intriguing members.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: You look at that. We'll start from the back and
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: work our way front.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Mason Montgomery was the, I believe, what relief pitcher of
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: the of the month. Yeah.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Reliever of the month in the National League. Luke Weaver,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: the best right hander dealt at the deadline. He comes
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: back to the Pirates on a pretty big bargain financially.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: And then you get to the middle of that pen.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Johan Ramirez was probably their most consistent relief pitcher from
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: start to finish this year.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Took a massive step forward.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: You have Lake Bacher, the darling of this program, who
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: has shown his versatility as an opener, as a medium
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: leverage guy, as a long relief guy.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Whatever they really need him to do.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: And he's probably capable of some high leverage situations as well.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Carmen Majinski, a guy who probably should have been.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: In this bullpen earlier.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: All year long and it probably would have been better
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: off if he was and used as an actual member
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: of the bullpen. I think it's fair to assume that
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: he will have a bigger bullpen role in 2027. And
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: then you have some other guys like Wilbert hotel, Antoine Kelly,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, sis, I mean, you could throw Isaac Mattson
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: out there as well. I'm sure I'm forgetting. I mean,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: I cert is another one. There are a handful of others,
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: but overall you look at normally when a season.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Ends and you're looking at a bullpen, You're looking at a.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Lot of free agents, you know, you're kind of, that's,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: and that's not just a thing for the pirates. That
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: is typically the area of the team where pretty much
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: everyone's kind of rebuilding their bullpen heading into a new year. Yeah.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: A lot of shuffling, regardless if you were a good
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: team or a bad team, that's where a lot of
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: the one-year contracts are. That's where a lot of pre-arved guys,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: some non-tender options. and sure there are those here you're
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: losing Kirby Yates. They, they got rid of the ball. Um,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: but overall guys, like we said earlier, it's, it's very
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: easy to feel optimistic about the core of this bullpen
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: that's returning. Um, and it's a core that's going to
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: probably make this team better. It's going to be a
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: strength thing into 2027. Oh yeah.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Um, just to follow that up, I just want to
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: highlight what it's like having Mesa Montgomery again. Um, having
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: that just box checked going into this off season is
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: massive because I think if you would have asked, you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: in the 2026 off season, looking ahead to 2027, I
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: felt like the bullpen probably would have needed addressed just
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: because we're like, all right, we have Dennis Santana, Gregory
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Soto on a one-year deal, um, need some backend help.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: And they finally found that, um, it, the fact that
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: they did that with Mason Montgomery in that the trade
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: with Brandon Lau, it, it's kind of absurd. Um, just
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: how good of a trade that was, even if you
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: just don't even factor in Lau for next year, just massive,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: massive trade. So I'm feeling really confident there, but we've
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: also talked about how, as far as like what this
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: bullpen would need added to it, that back end, I
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: feel like you still can shore it up a little
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: bit just because one injury, you know, if Mason Montgomery
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: goes down, I feel a lot different about this bullpen.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: But you can say that about a lot of teams
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: with those elite closers. I'm sure the Padres aren't feeling
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: too great losing Mason Miller for one to three days
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: here as he goes on paternity leave. So losing that
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: back-end guy is crucial, but building out that depth, filling
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: out those middle-length relievers, the swing guys, I feel like
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: that's where we're going to see additions. Just because I
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: don't think there's going to be a sizable financial investment
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: into this bullpen, given how strong it is already.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: Given everything that you've all mentioned, obviously, as you said,
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: one of the groups that we're most optimistic about with
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: the names that you've mentioned. Even, Mark, I'll do you
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: one better. As you say, you're sitting here feeling good
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: about Mason Montgomery in the 9th. You've got to be
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: feeling good to know that you've got Luke Weaver in eighth.
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: A lot of teams are either looking for one or
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: the other, and you already have two covered. And then,
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: as you mentioned, and you're looking for help, maybe a no-swing.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: You know what?
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: It might not have to be a middle-swing guy. You
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: already have eight and nine. You might be able to
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: find another guy that has eighth, ninth-inning experience that you
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: could slot in that seven role that if something were
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: to happen to Mason or Luke that, okay, because– Coming
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: into this year, it was like, okay, Dennis Santana, you
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: signed Greg Russo, but it was still question marks on
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: both of them.
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: You know, which guy are you going to get?
• 5:27
  Speaker 5: So, you know, as you look into it, it's like, okay,
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: you have Montgomery, you got Weaver, you could make a
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: nice addition. But I'd like to see him if we're
• 5:35
  Speaker 5: going to talk about something to add, maybe another lefty
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: for sure, you know, to some extent. But I definitely
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: like as we sit here, you know, you got eight
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: and nine figured out. For a lot of teams, you know,
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: they're trying to figure out that seven, eight, nine while
• 5:53
  Speaker 5: having they might have seven, but they need eight, nine
• 5:56
  Speaker 5: or they might have eight. It means seven, nine or
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: vice versa. You know, you got your back, too. That's
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: a pretty good problem to have, if you ask me.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and as we can chip the conversation to the
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: biggest need here, as Mark kind of alluded, he's thinking
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: high leverage. We've talked in prior shows about maybe signing
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: David Bednar. Josh talked about a lefty. I think both
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: of those make a lot of sense. Another specific role
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: in this bullpen that I think needs to be filled
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: is they need another Kirby Yates, I think. It's still
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: a very young bullpen overall. I mean, you look around,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: and the most experienced guy is Luke Weaver, and he's
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: only really been on the team for a couple of months.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: And so I think just another veteran voice would do
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: this club well. And again, I don't think it needs
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: to be... I mean, yeah, if you want to go
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: trade for Aroldis Chapman or something, that's great, or go
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: sign David Bednar, that's great. You could kill two birds
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: with one stone there, right? Like, if it's Chapman, it's
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: a veteran, it's a lefty, it's high leverage.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: That's three things. If you go sign David Bednar.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: It's, it's a veteran, it's high leverage and a guy
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: who knows what it's like to play in Pittsburgh.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: But even just, just someone who's just.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Been around the game for a while, who's steady, who's
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: not going to be a huge difference maker. Who's not
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: going to be someone that's primarily a high leverage role,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: but maybe someone with familiarity and high leverage. Like Kirby
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Yates is a, again, perfect example. That was an all-star
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: closer at one point. And if you had him for
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: the whole year, are you going to ask him to
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: pitch the ninth inning 30 times? No, but if someone
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: goes down for a couple of weeks and you need
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: him to pitch the eighth while Weaver pitches the ninth,
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: that you can, you can rely on that. And you
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: probably feel a little bit more comfortable asking him to
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: do that than someone who's younger and who.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Hasn't done that before.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: So I like the idea of a veteran and that's
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: probably more cost effective and makes a little bit more sense. Um,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: so now I want to transition this here, uh, Assuming that, yeah,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: they're probably not going to allocate a lot of finances
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: to this specific area of the team. Because honestly, Weaver
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: and Bacher are their.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Big 2027 bullpen additions. That's just how it is.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: And I think this bullpen can get even better internally
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: if they figure out how to use Carmen Majinski.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you both this.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: What is the plan if you're the Pirates for Carmen
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Majinski next year? Is it to keep him stretched out
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: to be that fifth starter option. Cause you know, you
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: don't know what you're going to get with Keller. And
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: obviously Jones is going to have some restrictions still, probably
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Ashcraft probably as well.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Bubba Chandler still young.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Like you have a solid starting five, but yeah, Carmen
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: is probably your.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Next man up. Yeah.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Do you want to keep that the way it is?
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Keep him stretched out? Or do you just say, you
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: know what? Hey, that's Christian Curtis's job. And if we
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: go to a bullpen game, that can be your job,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: but we're going to keep you in bullpen shape. We
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: want you in a high leverage spot. Do you want
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: to define that role for Carmen Majinski to make him
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: middle to high leverage guy? Or do you want to
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: keep him as a hybrid one, you know, one size
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: fits all situation like he was in say 2024?
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll start. Go ahead, Josh.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: No, I mean, mine was going to be short.
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: I think this is the time more than any to
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: decide what they want to do because it's been enough
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: of is he going to be the fifth star and
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: then put him back in the bullpen. Firm believer that
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: when guys know their role, you're going to get the
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: most out of them.
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: But at the same time, your role can change.
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: So as you mentioned, the whole hybrid thing, it's like
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: if they see him as possibly being moving to a
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: leverage position, I'm focused only on that. But at the
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: same time, he's not going to get that real feel
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: for that leverage situation until he's presented in the regular season.
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: You can't mimic that in spring training. Now, if you
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: want him to not be the fifth starter, but still
• 9:59
  Speaker 5: have him strong. out as a starter because you know
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: early part of the season, pitchers are probably going to
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: go 85 pitches. Hey, there might be, or hey, Mitch
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: is going to be back, but guess what? We might
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: need you to piggyback Mitch, you know, like it's the
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: minor leagues. That was kind of where I was going
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: to go with it. But I think as far as
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: the whole starting thing, I would almost say that ship
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: has sailed just listening and seeing what's going on the
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: past couple of years. I don't think it's really worked out.
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: And you got to get the best value of the player,
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: but you also got to get the best value of
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: the player that makes the team better. And, you know,
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: if that's going to be him piggybacking Mitch or piggybacking
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: Christian Curtis or, hey, we want you to pitch this
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: high-level situation, it's.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: Got to be that.
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: But I don't know if that fifth starter is– At
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: least not in the Pittsburgh Pirates uniform, I would say.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: And to piggyback off of that, Josh, I think the
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: only time or the only reason to keep Carmen stretched
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: out is if you're planning on trading him early in
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: the year. But, I mean, I think going into this year,
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: if you're not dealing him this offseason, you have to
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: commit to him as a bullpen guy. You have so
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: many long relief options already. Like Noah said, Christian Curtis,
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Wilbur Dottel, Antoine Kelly. There's plenty of guys that you
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: can pull out there and put into that role that
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: carmen was in where you're not sacrificing how much potential
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: he has as a high leverage bullpen arm and we've
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: seen carmen succeed out of the bullpen he's done well
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: and i think committing to that this offseason building his
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: pitch repertoire around pitching out of the bullpen planning his
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: outings to make sure he's just giving it all he's
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: got for an inning letting him go out and like
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: focus on that this offseason would be huge Obviously, I
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: think he still has some trade value because he could
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: be a fifth starter for another team. So if you're
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: trying to move him, maybe you leave him stretched out
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: a little bit. But I just feel like there's so
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: many internal options otherwise. And his trade value probably just
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: isn't there, given his past comments and all of his
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: antics trying to be a starter. I don't know if
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: another team wants to sign up for that.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: So, yeah.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: Oh, go ahead, Noah.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I was just going to say, well, first things first.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: If you're thinking about trading him, then trade him this offseason.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Don't take a player into the regular season that you
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: wish to trade. Just get him out of here. It's
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: that big of a problem, which I'm not denying it
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: could be. If a bridge has been burned and it
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: was just kind of a situation where it's like, hey,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: we can't trade you this year, but you won't be
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: here next year, then don't let him come back. Find
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: a way to trade him away. But if he reports
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: to Bradenton whenever players report to Bradenton this upcoming season...
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: He needs to have a defined role, in my opinion.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: And I look at it like this. Who costs more
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: to acquire externally? A bulk relief guy or a high
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: leverage reliever?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And that question doesn't even need to be answered.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: We all know the answer to it. And you have
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: a guy who can do both. So why not let
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: him do the more difficult, the more important of the
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: two jobs? Because again, like we've all kind of said,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: the starting team, pitching stuff, that's just been answered at
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: this point. They've given him two years worth of tries,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: and if push comes to shove, I guess you give
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: him another opportunity, right? Say they lose multiple starters early
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: in the season, I still don't think.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: He should be your first option.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: He's not your first option.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I think it should be Curtis ahead of him at
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: this point, I think then, and I, again, like we
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: talked about it on last show, like I wouldn't be
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: against them signing a veteran guys, maybe like a non-roster
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: invite to spring training, or even just like a one
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: year deal for, uh, you know, just a veteran lefty,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: like we've seen them do before. But I think you
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: put Carmen is, you know, a fifth starter break glass
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: in case of emergency. But really, like, three things should
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: probably need to happen before you even explain that. I
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: think the team's better off letting him be your second
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: high-leverage righty. And he's a guy that, you know, you've
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: seen if you just watch these playoffs or even just
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: watch meaningful September baseball, teams will deploy those high-leverage righties in.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: The fourth inning sometimes.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, right.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Just whatever you need.
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: Whatever the game situation calls for, because it's like you're
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: playing it like it's game seven.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: We don't need to hold him in the eighth, seventh inning.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: You know what? This is a high.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Leverage in the fourth inning.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when you have Weaver and Montgomery still to
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: use later.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: It's like, all right, we could really use a switch
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: up here. You have that option.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So I think they're a better team by just making
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: him a high leverage guy and letting some other guys
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: get that opportunity to be a swing man. I mean,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Bacher is, I think, the perfect guy to be the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: multitude role guy. If you want him to be swing man,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: if you want him to be mid leverage and, you know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: pitch a little high leverage, if you're a little thin
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: on certain days, I think Bacher is better for that.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I agree with what Josh said.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Carmen is a guy that, I mean, he's pushed back
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: at times about what the role they tried to give him.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: But I think now you're at a point with him
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: where you're saying, this is your role. You're entering the year.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: This is your role. We know you want to be
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: a starter. We know you can be a starter at times.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: And if we really need you to do that, we'll
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: ask you to do that. But until that time comes,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: you're going to be our seventh inning guy or eighth
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: inning guy. You're our second right-handed leverage arm. And that's
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: an important thing for us because if you could have
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: been that for us last year, we probably would have
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: had a better chance of making the playoffs. So that's carbon.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I want to wrap this up by asking about another guy.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: We're talking about Val on the note of value and
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: getting the most out of a player. We talked about
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: the starting rotation and what it could look like last week.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: or last episode, I should say, let's say they do
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: sign a lefty and that, well, let's say Mitch Keller
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: needs a little bit of time to get going this year,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: or they give Christian Curtis an opportunity and he takes
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: off with it.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: What would your guys' thoughts be?
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: If Mitch Keller can't be one of their five best starters,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: if they gave him an opportunity to pitch out of
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: a higher leverage role, because I don't love the idea
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: of Mitch being a bulk guy. I mean, one, I
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: kind of feel like that's a little insulting to a
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: guy with his status on this team.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know how that would go over in the clubhouse.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know how he would receive it, even though
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: for everything that I know about Mitch Keller, which is
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: a decent amount, he's a pretty good teammate.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: But if you're paying a guy $ 18 million.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Would the Pirates be wrong to maybe float it by
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: him heading into this offseason being like, hey, depending on
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: how you recover from this injury, depending on what we
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: do this offseason, maybe plan for leverage spots to be
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: an option. Maybe not the primary option. Obviously, try to
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: use him as a starter. But if it's not working
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: or if it's just not what the team kind of needs,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: rather than forcing it and creating a problem for yourself,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: would they be wrong to explore that and maybe make
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: him their third leverage guy and use Carmen in a
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: hybrid role like they would with Bacher?
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: I think you'd be wrong. just from a standpoint, all
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: Mitch knows is starting. Yeah. And you, you don't want
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: a guy coming back from an injury, preparing for a
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: different role. Yeah.
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: Now when he's back and he's healthy and maybe things,
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: if they don't go according to plan, you can always
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: mention that to him, but I would want his main.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: Focus to come back, prepared to be a starter.
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: And even if the plan internally, them themselves are thinking
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: that we might want to move him to the pen.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: You still want him to prepare. Cause that's, that's, that's
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: where his value is. That's what he's been valued at.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: That's all he knows. So you want this guy to
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: be locked in, you know, to be the Mitch Keller
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: that he's used to being and let everything else tell
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: you otherwise. Cause yes, he really could. I mean, obviously
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: he's got experience and has been in some stressful situations,
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: but just being a guy that has been injured, coming
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: back from surgeries, coming back from things, I was coming
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: back into some uncertainty because I was a position player.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: That's different.
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: I'm coming back to, okay, can I move? Am I
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: going to do this? How's the swing going to feel?
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: He's a starting pitcher, so he's got to get back
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: connected to that pattern. I just wouldn't want him to
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: feel like, okay, coming out the pen, I don't have
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: to save as much. I would just want him to
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: be built up as a starter just for him to
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: reconnect with you know, what.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: Gets him to where he needs to be. And you
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: can always move him to the pen. And it was
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: kind of mentioned a.
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: Little bit with Chris Sale the other day over the broadcast.
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: They asked Justin Verlander how he did it. And he's like,
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: you know, he's coming back from injury this or that.
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: He might have reconnected to what got him back. But
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: you also saw him come out of the pen to
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: finish the game. But, you know, coming back from injury,
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: you want to take everything, you know, for what it's
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: worth and start from the ground up and kind of
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: reconnect and build towards back to, you know, what you
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: used to do. And I think You want to get
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: the player back to where they were before you try
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: to change the role.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I completely agree. I think Mitch needs to at least–
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: you need to try to get him back to his
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: starter role. If it doesn't work, maybe you move him
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: to the bullpen. I will say Luke Weaver could be
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: a great mentor if that were to happen. That's a
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: guy who didn't really have a great time starting at
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: the tail end of his starting career and then figured
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: out how to become an elite reliever. So maybe– Weaver
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: can impart some wisdom, but I think that's another break.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: glass in case of an emergency. We can't trade Mitch Keller.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: We can't put him in the starting rotation type of deal.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: But we're paying him $ 18 million. He's still an effective pitcher.
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: Bring him out of the bullpen.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: But yeah, again, that's not a scenario that I would
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: feel great about.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: If it did happen. Full transparency. I wouldn't feel great
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: about it either. I was just trying to make up
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: a conversation.
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: No, I mean, it's not anything that, because you look
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: at Joe Musgrove, this playoff, what is Joe doing?
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: He's coming out of the bullpen. So it's not anything
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: that's for a fetch.
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: That's why I didn't want you to feel like it happens.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I look at it like this.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: August and September, when you're playing meaningful baseball, regardless if
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: you're a team loaded with pitching players, or a team
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: with hardly any pitching options, innings become a lot more
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: difficult to cover.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Guys are getting worn down.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Your prospects are being tested a little bit more, just
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: like the games are more pressure.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: On the games.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: Right into the season.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's where you see.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, very rarely do you see any team, when
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: it's in September, sticking to a five-man rotation. Bullpen games
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: have become a regularity. for pretty much everyone starting rotation
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: in the final month and into the playoffs at certain points.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: And that's where I just kind of look at Keller
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: where it's like, you know, he's always his, his one
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: thing prior to this year has just been health and
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: it's been, I, he can cover innings. And if he
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: can return to that, just being like a steady presence,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: his ceiling is in as high as the four guys
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: ahead of him in this rotation.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: I think all of them kind of established that this year.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: But you could still find some value with him. And I,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: and I look at if this were to be a
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: playoff team, having Mitch as a guy who could start
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: games for you.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Sure. But if you find someone better who has.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: A little bit more upside, a little bit more juice,
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: like there, there are still, there's still value to be
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: gained from this guy. So I, I totally agree with
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: both of you. He has to rehab knowing that he's
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: going to come back as a starter, but it's not
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: the same situation where it was in a couple of
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: years prior where it's like, Hey, We got to force
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: this guy to figure it out in the rotation. He's
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: not really the future of this rotation anymore.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: He just isn't.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's a commitment to the rotation because of
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: what they're paying him.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: But I think.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Forcing him to only approaching it with the thought of
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Mitch is a starting pitcher and nothing else moving forward.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: That is, to me, a similar mentality of, okay, well,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: we got to play Ozuna because we paid him this money.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: You can't just play a guy one way or force
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a guy into a role because of his financial commitment.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: You got to think about the team. Mitch obviously deserves
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to... to maintain his spot in the starting
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: five of that rotation and to bounce back after what
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: was probably the worst year of his career. Definitely worst
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: year since he became an established big league pitcher. But
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: if it doesn't work out and it doesn't make sense
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: to have him continue, if he looks how he did
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: in the first couple of months of the first real
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: four months of the season prior to him getting injured,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: then find a new use for him rather than just,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: you know, having him be a long reliever, I think
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: that you're going to have certain days where you're going
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: to have to pick between Johan Ramirez or Mitch Keller
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: or Wilbur Dottel or Mitch Keller in like a.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Seventh inning situation sometimes.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And Johan probably would get that nod now, but I
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: would be curious to see if next year we're going
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: to really find out how much of a future Mitch
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Keller has as a starter in this league. And if
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: The answer to that question is not much of a future.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Then the pirates, until they can find a way to
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: get rid of them, have to figure out a better
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: way to maximize his value. And that could be through
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: the bullpen with a mid to high leverage role. And
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: that honestly, I mean, that's probably the second best case scenario.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I guess, well, first best case scenario would be trading him.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Second best case scenario is... him figuring it out as
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: a starter. Third would be him figuring it out as
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: a high leverage bullpen arm.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Shouldn't be the first option, but also shouldn't be
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: completely off the table.
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: But that, that sports for you though, you know, anything
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: roles can change. And basically what you're saying is, you
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: know what, his role might change, but it might be
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: for the betterment of the team.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: But at the same time, Hey, you might get Mitch
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: to come back healthy. And he's Mitch of that.
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: You said that is a fifth starter that can eat innings. And, but,
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: Until then, you know, it's just more about getting Mitch healthy. But,
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think that was a bad question.
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: You know, not a bad idea because it happens.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: But you know what else? But you know what should happen?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: There it is.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: Everybody hitting that follow or that submit button right there. Subscribe,
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: not submit, subscribe. Go ahead and subscribe to Bucko Territory.
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: Still on our way to 3,000.
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: I know my partners were sitting there waiting on the transition.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: I took care of it today. But, yeah, man, hit
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• 25:00
  Speaker 5: I know it's the offseason technically for the Buccos, but,
• 25:03
  Speaker 5: you know, you still got Bucco territory.
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: We'll be here each week. With some fresh ideas. We
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: coming with some content. So keep following us. Keep subscribing.
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: Spread the word.
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: Fellas got anything?
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I got one final thought. Going into 2027, I'm kind
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: of intrigued. We saw at the end of this year
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: the Marlins pulling some of their starters into the bullpen
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: for high leverage spots. for spot starts on their off
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: days when they're going to be throwing a bullpen. I
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: don't know if you saw that Sandy Alcantara got a save.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of curious, going into 2027, if other teams,
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: you don't think so, Josh?
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: It's just not the same.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: You're asking a dude to get adrenaline on a day
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: that he's not supposed to when he's used to every
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: fifth day.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: I just think it'll lead to some injury.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Maybe there's a reason that teams haven't done that.
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: That's just my first thought.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: But I'm just curious to see if that impacts how
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: bullpens are used or anything going into 2027. Probably not,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: but I thought it was interesting. So figured I'd throw
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: it out there for a little final thought here. Anything
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: from you, Noah?
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dome stadiums suck. Play baseball outside. That's how God
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: intended it to be.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: It can be cold in October. And, you know, maybe
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Colorado should have a dome. But, like, everywhere else, stop.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: I hate– Man, in October– Listen, I hate that two
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: games have had a result kind of influenced by a ball.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Primarily one.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Game, the Yankees were going to lose their game regardless,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I think, but.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: just, it's just dumb. And I am happy that it
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: benefited the small market team in both instances. I guess
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: that's kind of cool.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: But overall, you know, and then maybe, you know, spin zone,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: maybe that's what the pirates need to do.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: It's not getting better. It's not drafting better. They build
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a dome. They can win like the brewers in there.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yeah.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: That's, that's the only difference.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Nevermind.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: BW three is hit that button. Like that commercial. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: All right. It's getting off the rails. Let's wrap it up.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: He's Platinum Key. He's Josh Harrison. I'm Noah Hiles.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: We're signing off saying thanks for tuning in to another
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: episode of Bucko Territory presented to you by the Foul
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Territory Network.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Take care.