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Thriving in Chaos: How to Communicate Under Pressure with Tana Jackson · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Welcome. Dear listeners, to the speak and flow podcast where we dive into unique experiences to help you and your team achieve maximum potential and flow.
• 0:13
  Melinda Lee: Today I have an amazing leader, smart, authentic.
• 0:19
  Melinda Lee: a go getter, Tana Jackson. She is the Vp of operations with upright, upright labs. Hi! Tana.
• 0:29
  TanaJackson: Hi, Melinda! Thanks for having me.
• 0:31
  Melinda Lee: I'm so excited to dive into our conversation today because it's really about how to communicate effectively when the pressure is on and before we dive into that I'd like for you to share with the audience. What are you passionate about when it comes to your work?
• 0:48
  TanaJackson: Oh, goodness! Passionate about so many things! I would say I've always been into the work smarter, not harder philosophy. So when I got into operations in general, it was, how can I be more efficient? So everything that I go into it's very much.
• 1:05
  TanaJackson: How can we do this to get to A to B the most efficient way possible, and that is what comes out with thriving in chaos so usually like love problem, solving, seeing all the chaos and kind of tying it all together.
• 1:18
  TanaJackson: That becomes my passion project. So you know, focusing on what is happening, how can we improve it? How can we make it better. And then, when you have that success at the end, after you've fixed whatever it is you're fixing, you can kind of sit and be like, wow! That's great.
• 1:32
  TanaJackson: So that's 1 of my biggest passion things, as far as work is concerned. But I'm just very passionate about women leadership women in leadership, women supporting each other in leadership. So I really just try to be that role model.
• 1:46
  TanaJackson: you know.
• 1:47
  TanaJackson: you know, lead by example, kind of situation, not just for women, but everybody that I work with.
• 1:53
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I'm I'm so appreciative of you being on the podcast
• 1:57
  Melinda Lee: just because of what you do and your role. Vp of operations, there's probably not as many women in this area. And so for you to rise and go to this level as a woman leader. I'm grateful for your expertise and
• 2:12
  Melinda Lee: sharing about women leaders, leaders in general, you probably have met a lot of leaders. You're a great leader. But what about those ones that are not so good.
• 2:25
  TanaJackson: Oh, goodness!
• 2:26
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, sure. Can you tell us what your experience has been?
• 2:29
  TanaJackson: Yes, oh, so experience with terrible managers, absolutely. We've come across those probably numerous times in our career. So I would say on a broad scope. Yes, I've had terrible leaders, whether it be, you know, immediate managers or not of, you know
• 2:45
  TanaJackson: the old school thought process, you know. Non inclusion, non diversity, you know they don't really welcome you in, but I feel like as a woman. I see more
• 2:56
  TanaJackson: women leaders. That do not support other women. So I've had examples, you know, where I've had
• 3:02
  TanaJackson: female leaders, where it was micromanagement, or you know they hired you for a specific reason. But if you excelled. There was. I don't know if it comes from a place of competition, or, you know, thinking somebody smarter than them where they would just hold you down. You know they would take your ideas and take that as if it's their idea, or you present an idea, and they rip it apart right there in your face.
• 3:27
  TanaJackson: So I feel like having those terrible managers, whether it be males and we're dealing with. We'll call it misogyny in the workplace which we've all experienced, or women who don't support women. I feel like it's very difficult as a female leader to grow like you said. You know, being able to get to a Vp role. I've always wanted to be in this position to have that voice, you know, but that also encourage others in the workplace, you know, as they grow through their career. Don't be afraid to speak up.
• 3:56
  TanaJackson: you know. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself, you know, in a professional way, but also understand that you're not alone.
• 4:03
  TanaJackson: All of us have experienced this. So
• 4:05
  TanaJackson: I think my biggest takeaway has been learning to have my voice and use it, but then, also being willing to let go and step away from something that was not for me.
• 4:15
  TanaJackson: And that means, you know, leaving positions, leaving companies that didn't align with your morals and values, but also just letting other women know it's okay to speak about this and okay to address it because the world is going to be what it is. So you know, I just feel like women should be helping each other, empowering each other, supporting each other, especially when it comes to growing in the workplace.
• 4:35
  TanaJackson: You know, all of us have gotten here because of other people being taught being coached, learning new skills learning supported, and that can come from across the board. But I do feel it's it's this detrimental. And it's really hard. If you have females in a workplace that don't support each other when you have to work together.
• 4:53
  Melinda Lee: Right, and here we are asking the men to support us.
• 4:56
  Melinda Lee: We we're not supporting each other.
• 4:59
  TanaJackson: Yes, yes, that's very common, which which you know it. It's not good. Put it that way.
• 5:06
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, how do you think a woman would know whether they are this way? Micromanaging and being competitive.
• 5:15
  TanaJackson: Do you think?
• 5:16
  Melinda Lee: No.
• 5:17
  TanaJackson: I feel like there's no way you wouldn't know whether it be different situations that happen at work where you're being given feedback, that ultimately, maybe you don't want to hear, but I don't feel any woman that is being. You know. The mean girl at work doesn't know that she's done that to some extent. But then, again, there may be ones that are oblivious to it, and they just think they're not doing anything wrong, and that but as a company.
• 5:45
  TanaJackson: This is something that's very noticeable. If your employees are leaving under one manager continuously and in their exit intros, they're saying that this person XY, and Z. At some point you have to believe it. It can't really be everybody's fault. So I I think it's that balancing act of being able to recognize that. But I also feel people have to be emotionally conscious of their own actions.
• 6:08
  Melinda Lee: Do you think it's more intense as they get higher? Or is it.
• 6:12
  TanaJackson: I would hope not. But then, again, you know, depending upon their situation, maybe it is where they're still trying to prove themselves, you know there, or they don't want somebody to look better than them. Or you know, whatever that situation is. I think if you look at it all that context, but being being in those shoes before and having this done to me, it was a growing experience, but it also showed me what I don't want to be as a leader.
• 6:37
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, what was that like for you? And as you're experiencing, what were you feeling as it was happening for you.
• 6:46
  TanaJackson: more of just uncomfortableness, because you see it happening. And you're trying to be professional because you you can be. You know you could take it, how you would have like in a personal situation and really call them out. But I think when you look at like the bigger scale of it. You're trying to be professional. You want to get along with everybody you want to work. You don't want to lose your job. But then, also, it is the situation where, at some point depending upon you know how that is. You have to make a conscious decision. Is this
• 7:15
  TanaJackson: for me, or is this not for me? Are you getting supported by the company, or are you not getting supported by the company? Because I do know a lot of women that have escalated situations like this to Hr. And you know it didn't go in their favor. So they went and found something better. And you know, even going through what I did. It made me very resilient. It made me look at leadership differently. So I feel like when you do see the bad. You understand what you don't want to be, so that when you become a leader you try to embody the things
• 7:42
  TanaJackson: that are the opposite of what you experience, because you don't want somebody else to feel what you felt.
• 7:48
  Melinda Lee: Oh, totally well, now that we're here. Well, how did you take? What did you take away? How does a good leader communicate from your perspective?
• 7:57
  TanaJackson: Oh, I think a great leader is. They're transparent. They bring their teams along with them, they coach, they speak, they don't try to hide things which is very. I mean, there are certain things that you can say or not say, but I feel like most leaders that are really good. They know how to speak to stakeholders to get buy in. They know how to speak to their teams to get them to trust them. You know it's the biggest part of does your team that you're leading
• 8:23
  TanaJackson: feel like you have their back, and they can trust you if they're coming to you, telling you their deepest, darkest secrets. Whether it be a private moment or a public moment, they trust you. If they don't talk to you about anything, and you have to always go to them and ask a question. They do not trust you. And
• 8:40
  TanaJackson: do your ideas pass the sniff test with them. So especially like in revenue operations and operations. We have to pull in a lot of stakeholders from across the company and pitch our ideas, you know, especially for me. I'll give an example. You know, we're working on process improvements. You know. I've just started my role under 2 months now. But there's a lot of processes and efficiencies that we're working on.
• 9:01
  TanaJackson: and a lot of everybody that works here. It's they know what they know. So you're bringing in new ideas, a new perspective. But you have to present it in a way where people are more open to saying, Oh, yeah, that makes sense versus coming in like a bowl in a china cabinet, saying, you're going to do it like, I say, this is how we're going to do it, even though I may see that. And I may think that
• 9:20
  TanaJackson: I'm not going to get them to follow it or adopt it. If I come in with that mentality of not explaining the why, getting them to see it walking them through it, you know, and it is a lot of the discussions and conversations and coaching. But at this point in my career. I'm trying to give back to what people did for me.
• 9:38
  TanaJackson: So I think the effective communication piece is really just that transparent communication of the why taking people along the journey with you. I mean some of it. You're gonna have to, just, you know. Go quickly. But then some of it you're gonna have to, you know, do a lot more explaining. But then, also
• 9:54
  TanaJackson: being open to their feedback negative, you know, negative or good. You know, people will give you both sides of it, you know, or they won't understand it. So I think it's just that balancing act of you know, being emotionally intelligent enough to understand what the audience is.
• 10:13
  Melinda Lee: And so what is that? I love that? Because it sounds like you're going in there to to tell the why. And this is for the key stakeholders, the ones that you need buy in from versus the team. So let's focus
• 10:25
  Melinda Lee: key stakeholders absolutely. You have to give the why. But I think everybody wants to know the why.
• 10:30
  Melinda Lee: Bye.
• 10:30
  TanaJackson: I will tell you. Early in my career it was really funny. I started a role, and it was something completely new. I asked why so many times that people actually thought I was being condescending? Because I would say, Why are you doing that? Why do you do it that way? Why do you do it this way? Because in my mind, I'm thinking, why are you doing it this way? When you could do it this way? I wouldn't say that.
• 10:51
  TanaJackson: but I will. I had somebody literally tell me like, stop asking me why. It's just how we do it. And that was my 1st experience of you know, this is just how we do it, and it's like.
• 11:01
  TanaJackson: well, there could be a better way that you could do it. So I think that when you're expressing the why it has to come along with the what, the why and the how, and then how it should be done, and then.
• 11:14
  TanaJackson: being a leader, you have to figure out, you know how to communicate that effectively versus it coming off the wrong way.
• 11:20
  Melinda Lee: Right? Right? Exactly. So you're communicating. And then, like you said, you're inviting for conversation. You're inviting for people to object. You're inviting for yeah, like people to have questions and bouncing ideas off of. I mean, there's some some things that are probably going to be set. But other times you can have those conversations with people.
• 11:38
  TanaJackson: Absolutely and understanding the audience. So sometimes, you know, I can go into a meeting, and I really don't have to say anything. I just sit, and I can listen because they're on the right track, you know. I may throw an idea out there or throw a comment out there. But then there's other meetings where you know they're all staring at me.
• 11:56
  TanaJackson: What do you want to do? How do you want to do it? What do you think. And you're like.
• 12:01
  TanaJackson: Okay, well, I'll give you all of it, then, you know. And so sometimes it it is still that balancing act of just understanding who you're talking to, whether it be the stakeholders or your team. And then what is the information that you have to give them.
• 12:13
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. And when you decide on the information that you have to give them, you're good at cutting through the noise we had a debrief. How do you know exactly what information to give them?
• 12:26
  TanaJackson: That's part of understanding what the goal of it is. So you know, depending upon what the focus is and what we're trying to achieve. That would be more where I would try to try to cut out all the extra stuff and get to the point. I am very when it comes to information like, Give me the key points. Give me the bullet points. Get to it. Just be very clear of what we're trying to accomplish. I'm a big meeting agenda person
• 12:48
  TanaJackson: like don't put a calendar invite on my calendar without somewhat of an objection, agenda or heads up on what it's about.
• 12:56
  TanaJackson: because I don't have time to process it, especially, you know, as we have back to back meetings and working remote, it's you want to give yourself a little bit of like buffer there. So I think for me it is cutting out all that extra stuff.
• 13:09
  TanaJackson: and especially when you reach a certain point in your career, you have to be able to figure out what the priorities are.
• 13:15
  TanaJackson: Make sure that priorities are aligned with the business goals. So there's going to be a ton of stuff that gets thrown at us all day long. And you know I might not be able to answer my slack messages. I may not be able to look at every email, you know, because I've got something else that I'm concentrating on so being clear and transparent with that type of communication also is really effective for your teams.
• 13:37
  TanaJackson: because I I've been able to tell them like, Hey, here are the things that I'm working on. I may not get to you unless you do this, or you know, please understand, today is like a day that I'm going to be back to back meetings, or I'm not going to be in the office. It's you know, or how to escalate things effectively.
• 13:54
  Melinda Lee: I love it. I mean, what you do is so impactful. I mean because in today's society because we just the time is of the essence. And so, seeing things from how can we be more efficient, including our communication, is so helpful because communication could take up a lot of time you can talk about one, many topics convoluted, and people leave all confused.
• 14:16
  TanaJackson: Or you leave a meeting. I think the biggest one that we end up in if you don't have someone owning the meeting is, you get into a meeting, and you really don't know what you're there for, and everybody just talks and talks and talks, and then you leave the meeting. You didn't accomplish anything, and then you have to have another meeting because you didn't do anything on the first.st So.
• 14:34
  Melinda Lee: That 1st one.
• 14:35
  TanaJackson: It. It is very, you know, this balancing of time and productivity, but then also keeping that personable culture. You know. Recently we were having these conversations of like blending cultures, you know, different companies or different cultures, or different people coming together. You know, where can we have that balance of like personal fun getting to know each other versus, you know, we need to be productive. So it's like adding a touch of all of that in to balance it. I think that kind of is where where the sweet spot is.
• 15:02
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. And I could see these, that that leader, that very leader that does both of those very effectively.
• 15:08
  TanaJackson: Well, thank you. I try.
• 15:10
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, no, it's just who you are.
• 15:14
  Melinda Lee: So I'd like to leave the call or end the conversation with, I asked all guests, what is the one leadership, golden takeaway that you'd like the audience to remember.
• 15:26
  TanaJackson: Can I give 3?
• 15:27
  TanaJackson: Do we have time for 3? If I make sure.
• 15:30
  Melinda Lee: It's okay. Do 3.
• 15:33
  TanaJackson: Okay, so.
• 15:33
  Melinda Lee: Thanks.
• 15:34
  TanaJackson: Am I?
• 15:35
  TanaJackson: Get through the noise, remove the noise so you can focus as a leader on highly impactful work. What is the priority? And what is the goal, and try to cut out all the extra stuff that could be in meetings. And you know, communications, and whatever it is, always try to think ahead
• 15:51
  TanaJackson: and at a higher level, because your team is not always going to see that higher level vision. 2 would be aligning your teams and stakeholders with the same vision. So I think.
• 16:01
  TanaJackson: having those same vision and value making it tangible, gives everybody something to work towards. So it's like, if everybody is on the same page, if everybody's on the same journey, everybody has the same communication. Everybody is kind of still there with you, whether they agree or not. And then number 3 would be
• 16:18
  TanaJackson: support your team's autonomy, you know. Allow them to do things they haven't done before. Give them things, delegate to things, even if they're like, oh, I've never done it before. Guide them. We've all had amazing mentors to get where we are in our careers. So it is on us as leaders to do that for our teams. We don't have to do it for them. We don't have to micromanage them. They may not do it, how we would do it.
• 16:42
  TanaJackson: but you could still give constructive feedback. Make them better. But I feel like those are my biggest golden rules at this point of being a leader, of just being able to kind of do all that stuff and protect your team because you you're the one that's like
• 16:56
  TanaJackson: over over them. And you know you want things to work well, and you want the business to run right. So.
• 17:02
  Melinda Lee: Right? Right? I love those. Those are great. No, those really cut through the noise. No, your priorities. 1, 2 thing. It's all under one umbrella of of effective leadership.
• 17:14
  Melinda Lee: Know your priorities. Align them with your vision to your vision, and then the 3rd is, build them up. Basically give them autonomy to do, to to execute on the vision.
• 17:26
  TanaJackson: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 17:28
  Melinda Lee: Love that. Thank you so much, Tana. That was amazing. I had a great time. Thank you for sharing your insights.
• 17:35
  TanaJackson: Of course. Thanks, Melinda. I appreciate it. It's been a pleasure.
• 17:38
  Melinda Lee: It's been fun. And thank you listeners for joining. I trust that you've gotten your golden takeaway to execute and implement into your life. And remember, anytime you have a chance to communicate. You also have a chance to connect and to inspire, to make a bigger difference in the world. Thank you love you so much until next time. Bye.
• 17:58
  TanaJackson: Hi.