Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 100: Allana Ferguson and Jeremy Latimore - How to Embrace Life Beyond the Game: From Rugby Star to Broadcast and Business Success

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100: Allana Ferguson and Jeremy Latimore - How to Embrace Life Beyond the Game: From Rugby Star to Broadcast and Business Success · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I've had women reach out from completely different codes, like some cricketers, aflw players that have reached out to me for advice and, look, I don't know everything.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I'm just fortunate enough of timing when I was going through and playing, I was lucky with a few things.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Obviously, I've landed on my feet in terms of being in the commentary teams for league and rugby and I want to help anyone and everyone I possibly can, so I'm so open to sharing my experiences, but also things that I could have and certainly would have done different along the way.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing is it doesn't matter what you're doing.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: If you're playing sport, if you're looking to venture outside of that, make the most of the relationships that you've got and you can learn something from everyone.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Elite athletes are still people after all, let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Alana Jeremy, welcome to the show.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having us mate.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how good, thank you.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Absolute pleasure.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you're on here because, as I was saying, this is a very special edition.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: We are at the 100th episode of the second wind academy podcast, but this one is even more special because it's been taken over by unite, who are indeed uniting the dream for athletes and their brand.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: So today, yeah, we're going to cover your transitions through sport and into your life after sport, but I also know there's going to be some great stories that we're going to get out of this which are going to help a lot of athletes who are going to be listening today.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: So, again, thanks for being open, giving me your time.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I didn't know it was a hundred episodes, so I feel extra special now.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Mind you, I did replace Louis, so I've come off the bench late, that's all right, strong finish, like my football career, I'll be off the bench.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: There we go, a strong finisher indeed.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: So well, let's get into it, because I'm really curious what you're up to today.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: So, Alana, we'll kick off with yourself, so tell us what's going on.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: A lot.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I'm currently an NRL commentator for the men's game, nrlw for the women's, and then I also do rugby union, so for both men's and women's.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: We do a fair bit of men's though at the moment, so like super rugby, and then it goes into all the test matches and stuff.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: So between the two I also do a little bit of radio and I've got a couple of kids at home.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, other than that, pretty boring, I think that's kind of action-packed.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: I quite like that.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's full on, I love it.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it keeps you on your toes and you're living down the coast, that's right.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we live down the coast near family.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I need help between my husband and I.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: He's got like a normal nine to five job and I'm pretty M to sunday, so grandparents come in handy, certainly with the kids and, yeah, just enjoying the chaos yeah, I love that.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: I love that kind of normal nine to five um description.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: We'll, I think we'll, we'll step into that a little bit I've got a bit of experience in that, unfortunately, as well but, uh, let's, let's, um, let's say from you what's going on nowadays for you man, I'm doing a few things.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: Um, since I've retired I've been working with the Dragons in the commercial team.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: That's been the one constant, and recently merged a few businesses sort of together which you're now involved in as well, so that's Unite.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: So I was doing mortgage broken with Oxygen Home Loans, so that's come under that umbrella.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: Lci Sports, which Alana was involved in and yourself and Luke Lewis merged that under the umbrella, and then the other part of it, lci Sports, which Alana was involved in and yourself and Luke Lewis Merge that under the umbrella and then the other part of it.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: There's actually three other four parts that have come under that now as well, which I want to touch on because I'll confuse myself.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: I think you always like to keep yourself on the go.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Correct, correct, and about to start a podcast as well.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: About to start another podcast.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is it.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: It we're doing cross podcast promotion, correct, correct?
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: I love chatting mate, so I think that space is suiting in the uh, the crew I'm with that's it, love it, love yarn yeah beauty.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Well, we will keep the conversation flowing here as well.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: I'm curious now.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Clearly, for both of you, rugby has been an important part.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: But alana, perhaps kicking off with yourself, what was sport like for you growing up?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Everything.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: To be honest, I started playing league when I was four, played with the boys up until I was 12.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Obviously, throughout that period I played other sports Like I'd played everything under the sun except for netball.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Our footy coach when I was a kid said like if we played bad or trained shit, he'd be like that's it, you can all wear netballs, go to training next week.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: So that was ingrained in me from a young age not to play netty, but anyway, I played every sport under the sun.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I've always loved footy, like touch footy, oztag, I'm a massive fan of that once it kicked off, but rugby league was literally my whole world.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I've got three brothers so we'd play like knee footy in the lounge room and we had a pretty cool backyard as well.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: We'd be out and about 24-7.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just like in my blood from the get-go.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Loved it my whole world.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: But then, once I turned 12, because I played footy with the boys, I was the only girl Until my last year.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Actually, I played with one of my best mates to this day, georgie Brooker.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I was the only girl that whole time.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So it was great.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Honestly, like I know, there's so many different opportunities now and girls have different pathways and opportunities, which is incredible, but for me it was normal and I loved it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: At what point did it start to get serious?
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Or when did you start to realize hold on, I'm good at this.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I'm so competitive.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Knee footy in the lounge room was serious for me.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: I hate losing anything, I don't know.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I just loved footy forever.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I used to sleep with I think it was like a Nutri-Grain footy.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: It was like a soft one in my bed.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: From a young age I would get in trouble all the time for wearing my footy boots to bed because they were obviously filthy but serious.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: We won the.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I remember being the year before I had to stop playing and I remember constantly thinking this sucks that I've only got one more year because whilst I played other sports, um, league was the one sport that I loved more than anything and I remember like it feeling quite real that I had to stop playing soon, which really sucked, sucked.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: But in my last year of footy we actually moved from the Shire down the coast and I wasn't going to play club footy.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I think my parents were pretty happy to like not push me, and my older brother or I think, yeah, a couple of my brothers were playing for the Butchers the Rural Butchers and I just turned up at their training and was passing the footy with Dad while they were sort of doing their thing and someone, dad, while they were sort of doing their thing and someone from the club went up to my dad and they were like she needs to play.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: And he was like oh yeah, she's played footy her whole life, she just hasn't really been pushing it, because it was.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I was like how old would I have been?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: like 11 or 10, or yeah 11 and I was in a new suburb.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: You're sort of old enough to be a bit nervous about that sort of stuff.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: And yeah, anyway, they asked me.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I started playing with the boys and we were on.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: So we won that comp for the Butchers and our school team won state school boys knockout.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: So, that was probably the only like serious year, because yeah, but then also that was my last year of playing with the boys, so it was awesome but pretty devastating at the end of it.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: So what comes?
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: next, then how did you continue playing?
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't play league again until I was an adult.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I played touch footy in Oztag and I didn't really love touch that much.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I loved Oztag, which is quite similar to league in terms of, yeah, just the style of play and stuff.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: So, I still played every sport under the sun.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: I'd pretty much give anything a crack to have a day off school, like most sporty kids which I scanned that I was in my kids.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, cricket, I played up in New South Wales 100%.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Gave AFL a crack.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: That was fun.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I used to get in so much trouble for tackling though, but yeah, I survived.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: But I was devastated.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't watch the NRL for a couple of years because I thought it was so unfair that I couldn't play.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean it kind of is right.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah 100%.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: You lose a big chunk of people by not being able to, by stopping the ability to play.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: I mean for you, though, what was it like for you growing up?
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Did you have a similar thing, where 11, 12 people were telling you you've got to stop playing?
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: No, I was very different to.
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: Alana, I wasn't that passionate about rugby league so I started.
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: I played soccer until I was about nine and then me best mates at school were playing league, so were playing league.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: So I transitioned across, started playing footy and obviously I was a big kid, um, but I actually ended up having a year off when I was 15 to I was a bit of a rat bag as a kid too.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I went bodyboarding just as a kid.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mate, you wouldn't believe it now.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't believe it.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I reckon I would really.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: I'm straight and narrow now but I had a year off when I was um 15 and finally I was just talking to the kids on the way here.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: So my son's asked me do you ever win back-to-back premierships as a kid?
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: Because I think I lost under 10s, won under 11s and 12s, maybe 13s.
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: We lost 14.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: I had the year off, they won it in 15s and I lost 16, 18.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: So when I come back at 16, after I realized bodyboarding wasn't really a sport that I was going to excel at, got the wheels back on the footy career and I started sort of doing weights and, yeah, I started to love my footy a bit more.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: My first year of under 18, I was playing off the bench, like I was playing off the bench in my Port Macquarie side.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: And then that next off season is when the fire got lit under me butt and I started going hard.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: My mate, who had signed with Cronulla at a young age, his dad had to ask me to come down.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: They used to do coaching camps in the school holidays and off that they wanted to sign me.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: And.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: I was just explaining this to my son in the car.
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: So Theo Burgess was the recruitment guy and I go, nah, nah, I don't want to sign, I go, I want to sign, I go, I want to make australian school boys karma pop.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: My shoulder had to get a shoulder reconstruction, tail between the legs went back and thankfully they um, they still signed me.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: Otherwise, yeah, I might not.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so lucky um, and seeing that all me young boys like, so if I get an offer, we take it, yeah, okay look, that was my advice from my father.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: I'll be giving you better advice than my father yeah, don't negotiate, just say yeah, thank you, appreciate it Done First offer.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: But yeah, so that's sort of how I fell into footy, but I honestly didn't take it serious until that sort of last preseason before my under-18s year.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: And I didn't play many games, no Well, at that same time and you touched on school as well what was school for you during that period?
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: oh, mate, my high school wasn't a great high school yeah, my high school wasn't a great high school up there, I bet, oh, westport high school.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: So um, yeah, there's some degenerates in that school and um so many mates were rat bags and yeah, so you fit.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: So we get that.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: You fitted in well yeah that's cool, that's clear, yeah, but uh, I have my mom who, yeah, she sort of rode me hard to make sure I did my schoolwork and um got that done, but I've always been a little bit adhd so I was not very good at focusing so for you, sport kind of, was nearly always going to be that the output uh, yeah, I think I want to be a marine biologist at one point and I can't.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: Now that I reflect on that, I actually can't imagine me being a marine biologist.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: But yeah, look, if football wasn't an option, I don't know.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: And because then later on I ended up going to university and getting a uni degree.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: But I often talk to young kids, like at the gym or whatever, and I'm like how, when you're 19, you're expected to choose your career for the next four years.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I understand it's full on.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's crazy career.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: It's full on.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: It's crazy Like there shouldn't you got to find your way in the world and I was lucky enough.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: I had rugby league to work out what I wanted, and my ex-wife she was like she's really smart, got a great job and she sort of pushed me into uni, which I'm very grateful for.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: Not that I use that degree now, but it taught me discipline, hard work, getting shit done.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Talk about finding your way.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: So for you playing in women's rugby at that time, how did you find your way into the game?
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: So I kept playing sport right the way through touch footy and Oztag, mostly in terms of like reps, and from an Oztag tournament over in New Zealand.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: It was about 18 months before the rugby sevens was going to the Olympics the first one in Rio and they just went rugby Australia or whoever it was just went and scouted at different sports and got a whole heap of people in.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: So they obviously had women's rugby and women's rugby sevens, but it wasn't massive yet and they needed to elevate the program.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: So they went everywhere.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: They went to like nippers and got the beach sprinters and volleyball, netball, good hand-eye coordination.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: They came to Oztag heaps from Touch Footy.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I reckon Touch Footy and Rugby Sevens are really similar in terms of the product, but yeah, anyway, they came to Tag I think it was when we were overplaying the Kiwis or something and just asked me if I wanted to come and try Rugby Sevens ahead of, obviously, the Olympics and they were starting the scouting process and I was like, yeah, I'll give it a crack, that's pretty cool.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: So that's how it sort of kicked off that's mad.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: I mean you, you know, playing recreationally, and then someone just comes in, taps you on the shoulder.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Do you want to try and go to the olympics?
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I'd love that yeah, it was cool, it was really cool.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Well, it was actually a little bit of a tricky decision at the time because women's rugby league.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: So I was living down the coast still and we had a team, we had a couple of local teams and some of my mates were starting to play again.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: The chick that I spoke about before, my mate Georgie, she was starting to play for Helensburg and she was like come and play with us.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, do I go play league for Helensburg Tigers or do I jump in and get into these training camps and try and give sevens a crack?
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And I swear to God, I lost sleep over it, like I truly didn't know, because I love league, like I love league.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: And I was like far out man, like I was one of those kids that watched Cathy Freeman and wanted to go to the Olympics.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Like I went and bought her fluoro spikes.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I'm like I'll just go Like, stop this, I'm going to the Olympics.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, and it was still footy, I'd never played rugby union a day in my life before.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I gave it a crack, jumped in, went to a heap of camps.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: They sort of just had like heaps of camps at all these private schools around Sydney and each time they'd drop however many people and we'd just play game after game against one another, do some skills and learn how to like clear a ruck and whatnot, but we pretty much just played footy like, however, a couple of weekends a month and it just kept culling down and, yeah, I ended up playing, which was cool it's very cool.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: We're going to come to sort of what that meant.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: I'm interested, though.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: What did you have to give up?
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: So you were playing touch, but what was during the day?
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: What else was happening for you?
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I was just at uni at the time so so not a lot Chicks footy, like chicks sport.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: When I was playing, but women's sport when I was playing was like that and it's sort of only just starting to change a little bit now, particularly the sports that I've been involved with, like in terms of like different codes of footy.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: But you have other jobs, so it's you know, you have your weekend training, particularly your camps, and then you're expected to do gym in the morning, like 4 or 5 am, whatever that is, go to work for the day or go to I was at uni at the time and then you do your extra sessions, so like we'd go to Moor Park a couple of times a week and you do that in the night and then, yeah, that was normal.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: So for you, then, moving from this aspiration of being a rugby player to actually getting in professionally, what was that like for you?
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: So my first year in Sydney I just was in Jersey Flag.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: Then my second year I actually got to train with the NRL team.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: I loved it and I'd come back a little bit overweight after my first off-season, so I had like 10 kilos to lose.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: How's that a little bit overweight?
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: Come back a little bit overweight after my first off-season so I had like 10 kilos to lose.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: How was that?
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: How was that A little bit overweight, yeah, a little bit overweight.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: It's like coming back from having a baby.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I know, and you look at me now.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: I can't generally put that much weight on, but I think I was having like a loaf of bread a day and a fair bit of alcohol over the off-season too.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but no, I really enjoyed it, Like I've always enjoyed the training part of rugby league More so the running the weights.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: I wasn't massive on when I played footy.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: I love weights now and I love often, and especially probably the last five years of my career like I was always so grateful and tried to bring the energy to training every day because it's the best job in the world.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: It's actually the best job in the world it's actually the best job in the world it's.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: And again, I wasn't like I want to play footy when I was young, but I always loved rugby league and then to be able to do that for the period of time I did, uh, and still be involved in rugby league now, like I often picture myself yeah, what I love about the two of you is that you've got those in life who grow up with this passion of being, you know, professional, making it part of their world in in terms of sport yeah and you know, and that comes from a very early age what you're describing lats, is this sort of followed my interest, played the game because well
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: actually I just enjoyed playing.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was good without that view as to where it would take you.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it then sounds you were certainly very appreciative of wow, I've made it, I've got then that opportunity, you know, and I love the fact it started from interest.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it wasn't that born passion for you.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: On the other hand, alana it's quite different was a passion to want to go ahead and do it, but the opportunities just weren't there yeah, for sure yeah, and and you sort of came in.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I guess you latched on to those opportunities being created.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: You were part of that first wave coming through of well, like starting to recognize the importance of the game for for women, but also the entertainment value as well yeah, definitely, look, I still to this day I think I've been retired for like six odd years or something I still, to this day, fall asleep sometimes thinking about playing a game of footy.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Like I don't love it that much, it's, it's tragic, and I've never been any different.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I've was yelled at most nights by my mom that dinner was on the table, put the footy down, got in trouble at school for kicking the footy up the hallway, like just stuff like that, never been any different.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: But the thing I love about women's sport, like up until this sort of, is that pretty much what you're saying like I sort of have always been involved in teams where we play because we love it, because we have never expected and never actually got anything for playing.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: So I think that's one of the really valuable things that and they still have it.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: They still have it to this day.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Like NRLW players in rugby league are obviously getting paid to play, but certainly not an amount that they can get ahead by just yet.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: They're quite close and there's a few marquee players that are doing incredibly well for themselves, but long term they're getting paid an amount of money and they're like, holy heck, this is sick, because obviously you're used to paying for whatever you play, and you play because you love it.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: But I love that aspect that you're playing.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: You know that your teammates are there because they love the game as much as you do and that's all they want to do.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: They're not there as a job, really, so I don't know.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I think also that's one of the important things to hold on to for women's sport, because it is so different.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Moving forward is just trying to keep that passion for the game and not have the talented athletes that just sort of want to do it for the money because it's yeah, I don't know, it's just such a big key, particularly when you're playing a contact sport, like if you've got someone on the field that genuinely would die for you and put their body on the line, like you know you're going to be all right at the end of the day, don't you?
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Like that's all you need.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Like you're playing rugby league contact sport, you need the person either side of you and everyone else in the lineup to want to do absolutely everything they can for you and the team to win that game, and I think that's something special that women's sports always had when certainly when I've been playing is that we never got it like much anything really for doing it, but we were there because we loved it I reckon sometimes now you see some in the males game people who literally play rugby league because of, obviously, the money and they love the social media stuff um, they're more social media stars and care more about that and they're following and how they look.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Then going out to um battle every week with your best mates yeah I've heard a few, I've heard of like a few names thrown up about the women's zone in terms of that changing, and that's just one thing that I'm like oh just yeah.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: It is what it is.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I guess that's life and those people will find them Like they get found out eventually.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: You will, you're 100% 100%, but yeah, it's something special that women's sports never really had to consider to this point.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Obviously, we want women to get paid for what?
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: they're doing because it's really important.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I just think that's something nice that sort of is held within those games.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: That yeah, I'd like for that to stay there.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and with you, I think there's got to be a support structure that comes in to make sure there remains an enjoyment for the game, but also balancing out the money, the flow, the fame that comes in, so that, well, people can actually also concentrate, or the athletes can concentrate on what's important, which is playing.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's been a few AFL.
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: Like men's AFL players in the last few years retire quite young because they weren't enjoying the game anymore mental health or they had other passion, which that's honourable.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to be able to step away from the game, yeah.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: Because, yeah, you need to be all in, that's it.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: You can't have your toe in.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Even Kiri came out when was it not that long ago saying he's going to stop playing before his contract's up like that, if you're not 100% in it, then you know you're going to be letting your teammates down.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: That's yeah.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I admire that more than anything.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: He did actually.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: He left early, yeah, because he wasn't enjoying it anymore.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: We see it a lot in sports.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Certainly, I think, in football or soccer.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: You see a lot of athletes, certainly overseas, where you see they'll pull out and famously we'll have tennis players, gymnasts, coming through as well, who are like?
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Do you know what?
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: I think I'm done.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: I've done what.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I how much more money could?
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: she have made yeah, true.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: But she chose to have a family.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: She was still at the top of her game.
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: She was literally at the top.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: She could have done anything and she chose.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: She knew within herself what she wanted to do.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: I love that she did.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: It's the best I mean.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: It talks then about how long you want to stay in the game, and for you, you lads, what's it?
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: 16, 17 years professionally in the game.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: 11 years playing.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but I did probably 15 pre-seasons yeah well, yeah, yeah, gotta count those, don't disregard the pre-season, because I loved pre-season so much.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: I just did it for the fun yeah, yeah, I did.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: I love pre-season.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: There's no pressure, you're just going to train and you're getting flogged, you're getting fit, you, you're feeling good.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: I like that.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Interestingly, again, you're prepared to put in the effort.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Now what is fascinating, and across those years, is again that shift.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: So we talk about that desire to keep playing, and so for you it wasn't like you were just with one club, but you actually shifted clubs throughout that.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Talk us, what was that like, changing clubs?
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah well, my first change was from Cronulla to Parramatta.
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: That was all right, but then massive cultural shift going from Parramatta to New Zealand.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: In what way?
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: Just obviously the mixture of cultures.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: But we had the best group of boys over there.
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: We had a great sprinkling of good boys from Australia.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: Then you have all your Islander cultures.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: We had Omar Sleimankel who was Afghanistanian, so it was just a great crew Then you have all your Islander cultures.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: We had Omar Sleimankel who was Afghanistanian, yeah, so it was just a great crew we had over there.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: And I think boys end up making the grand final in 2011.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: And Ivan was the coach back then, but that ended up being like a couple of the funnest years I had.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: But yeah, early on that transitioning was hard, but by the time I'm 26, you know, I knew half the people across the NRL because I might have played with them more, and you build them relationships away from rugby league.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I guess that's interesting is that building of relationships away from league, but also forging it with the players or those who you're competing with.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: So when you did move clubs a few times, was there anything that was consistently hard?
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: It was always difficult to do one particular thing.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: I think the good thing of changing clubs is you're always trying to prove yourself and I can't say that's the reason I kept changing clubs, because often I was unwanted or you know, a club would release me.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: Sometimes I went for opportunity, but I love the fact it always kept me honest and I was always trying to prove myself to the coaches and my teammates um, but no, I don't.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: I don't think there's anything I look at because I love talking, as you know and um meet new people.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: So, uh, that that part of it I love, fell into your favorite.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: In fact, it meant you had to meet new people, correct?
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: and now you know, post rugby league, my network is helping me build my post rugby league career, which we'll touch on later.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, honestly, that's interesting.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Now for you, though you know, shifting codes um again even more of a cultural shift and an outlook shift in many respects.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: What did you find hard about that?
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I think when I started playing sevens it was.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: It was tricky because it was so foreign to me, like I was literally learning rules, meeting, meeting new people same thing like trialling.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Literally every weekend was a trial to make it to the next stage which I ended up playing representing Australia.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, probably just the combination of so many new aspects constantly.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: The travel was quite different, because I've never really travelled much.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Well, we did go to New Zealand a lot for Austag um, but outside that like it was all just interstate.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, a little bit different.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: And then I came back to league um, after so I did my knee playing rugby sevens um wherever in China, did my knee and as soon as I was on the ground I like I knew that was the third time I'd done it um my ACL.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: And so as soon as I hit the deck I knew it was the third time I'd done it, my ACL.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: As soon as I hit the deck I knew it was my ACL straight away.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: All I could think about I remember it as well as anything being in this massive stadium in the middle of the ground.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: I hit the deck and I was like hell, yeah, I can't wait to play rugby league.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: I thought you were going to say you were done.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, immediately I was on the deck and like I could feel my eyes welling up because I was devastated.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Obviously I knew that I've got 12 months ahead of me, all the rest of it, this, that and the other but seriously, all that was going through my head was I'm going to play league.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Like cannot wait.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I was so glad that I gave rugby sevens like a crack and gave like that opportunity ago because it was so new, so different, like the games are so different, like we think they're quite similar because similar shape ball, whatever, but far out man, it was so different, very different environment as well, because they took quite a professional approach as to what I was ever used to like.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I played footy as a kid and then I went played touch and I was dag like how did you find that shift to more professionalism?
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: yeah, I loved it.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I'm a bit same as lats like I love.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I love being competitive and we played a fair bit of footy, so I really enjoyed it.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: Rugby's putting your head where you wouldn't put your foot.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, getting in them rock and rolls yeah.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, to be fair, we did have to play a little bit of 15s, but it was, I think, just to qualify.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, qualify.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: How'd you find that I?
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: was flying off.
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: I didn't know.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: I'm a ball player.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't get in there too often, um, only when there was an opportunity to sort of peek and go and have a crack.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I was out of that.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: No cauliflower ears over here.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, do you know?
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: It's fascinating you're hearing you there at that point of injury.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: You're the first person this being the 100th episode clearly spoken to a lot of athletes had to deal with injury.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: You're the first person who's come back at that point of injury and thought I can't wait to play, well, another game.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: It's like you, but you've got something else.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: But it was a game that I've loved for as long as I can remember.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I still, like, as I said to you before, like I was losing sleep over what to do play club league or give sevens a crack and I'm really glad I gave sevens a crack.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Like I got goosebumps running out in the field playing for Australia.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day it took me to get to that injury and I also knew the recovery that I had ahead.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Like I knew I had a long 12 months but it took that injury to be like you know what I love rugby league more than anything in this world.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I poured my heart and soul into playing sevens and they wanted me to stay in the program.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Like they wanted me to do my rehab there and stay within the sevens program.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: It was around that time where they were doing the LARS.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Do you remember when they did the LARS ACL.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a dead body, one, isn't it?
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was a quick fix.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So, instead of it taking, you know, nine to 12 months, it was like three to four months but they didn't really have much proof that they held very long.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: But it was a quick fix to play, potentially stay in the program but to play at the Olympics and I was like, nah, don't want to borrow it, I'm taking the 12 month approach.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to train my ass off and I'm going to go play rugby league and I did, like the day I could, I was playing oh yeah, what was hard about that injury period for you um, to be honest, my first two recos were really tricky.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I did my first one when I was 15 and like my whole life fell apart.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And then my next knee ACL I did when I was just before I turned 18.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: That one rocked me the most, I think, because I knew that it was such a long period, also, like an 18-year-old girl, that really I had stayed out of trouble as a teenager because I loved sport and I always had sport on the next day.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that one rocked me.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I was a nightmare.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have wanted to be related to me or you know you're nice to your mates and you're out of your family.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Like couldn't do anything, right.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I was a victim throughout that 12 month period, for sure.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: My third one, completely different story.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: What was different?
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I was a little bit older, it was early twenties, but, as I said, like I was at uni, had an education and I knew what I needed to do, I went back to I found like the best exercise physiologist.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I was still living down the coast, but in Cronulla, you know, Justin Lang.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So I still played heaps of footy in the Shire, so many of my mates were always there anyway.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: So I started training with him to start my knee rehab, because he's got a really good reputation with ACLs, and I was going there like three or four times a week in the beginning and then it went to like most days and then as soon as I finished uni three days later, I moved to Cronulla to be close to like where I was training at the gym.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I was nearly about to start playing footy again.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: I wanted to play there.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Just heaps of my mates were there, so I just knew what I wanted to do and I knew how to get there.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: My surgeon told me after my second ACL because I was so young and I'd done them back to back he said you should never play sport again.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, sure, mate, no worries.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: And I ended up playing two more, like two more sports for Australia after that like get stuffed, You've got an idea yeah so I don't know.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I'm determined, like I've got a pretty strong mind if I want to do something, but also, at the end of the day, I just love footy and I knew how to get back there yeah, that's good, beautiful journey, strong mentality as well, and you know, thinking about you, know yourself, my husband, about that not always ideal sometimes gets in the way of.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Can we do it another way?
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: No, this way, or the highway yeah I like that, I do.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: I'm interested though here, you know you're talking about changing clubs, recognizing at times that's because they don't want you.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, anymore, yeah how did that feel?
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard, it's it's pretty tough and, um, sometimes I don't have my old manager, who was completely transparent on info I was getting, so that's obviously it's an emotional time as well, when you're off contract and you think your career is done and I literally what did I go?
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: Two-year deal, one-year deal, one-year deal, two-year deal, one-year deal.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: That's so stressful, yeah two two.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: So yeah, nearly every year you're like, oh, far out, you get to be at round 10, you're like I'm going to have to work this out again.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: Am I going to get told I'm not wanted again?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: There are too many stories of bankruptcies, mental health issues and, unfortunately, suicide, and so I think it's time to act.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Every year, we see thousands of athletes that reach a point where they need to consider their life after they leave sport.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: This might be at retirement injury.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Consider their life after they leave sport.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: This might be a retirement injury or the need to juggle dual careers, between sport and a job.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: As a former English professional footballer, I have somehow managed to transition from sport into banking strategy, innovation and now life coach, career practitioner and founder of the Second Wind Academy.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: So I want to help those around me find their career second wind.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Find me on Insta or through my new Facebook group, Second Wind Academy, where I'd love to know your thoughts and suggestions.
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: The main thing I took from sport is you know, get the nose to teach it.
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Like nothing worries me now.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: I'm so mentally strong, resilient.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: You know, I was up and down for the first 50 games of my career.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: It took me five years.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: So I was up down and that wasn't.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: That was barely injury, like it might have been a couple of games of injury, but it was just.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: I was 18th man about 15 times, yeah, and that was because I was inconsistent.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: I was good enough, um, and then I barely missed the game the next three or four years, from my 50th to my 150th yeah, do you know it's amazing that because we, we think of the life of a professional athlete, yeah, to be this glorious dream, yeah, you are.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, your life's sorted yeah, I mean you'll talk about every year yeah having to well fight for the income survival, not knowing what's going to happen next and even I know lana was just talking about some of the marquee players in nrwW and I know some of the girls are getting paid.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: That's more than I got in my last two years at the Dragons, like I was on minimum wage there.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: Actually, I might have got a 5K increase in 2019.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: I was on 105,000.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: That would cover your coffers.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, but thankfully my wife she was on a good income, so she could support me.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: So at what point during your career did you really start to think this is it, I've got to do something else after rugby.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: It was when I was at New Zealand.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: That's when I started a Bachelor of Business yes, I was 20, what was I then?
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: 24?
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Was that with the aim of thinking what you'll do after sport?
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: Absolutely not, it was just because they paid a tertiary education allowance.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: So I'm like I may as well make use of that in my contract.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: So the NRL is paying for me to.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know 100%.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: And then I was a massive advocate for education because, like we're talking about, you have so much spare time as a rugby league player.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: There's only so many pokers.
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: You can go press so many horses.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: You can go back so many times.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: You can go to a cafe and drink coffee or go to the beach with your mate or play playstation it used to be fifa back in the day, um, so at least I was proactively using my time to better myself after rugby league, uh, and it did.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: It's created opportunities for me now, um, post rugby league.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: But I ended up finishing it in um 2016 at, uh, the panthers, and then pepper money was a sponsor to the club then, so I started going in and doing some work with them, which I found out the corporate world wasn't for me.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't enjoy being in an office and, as you know, I don't sit still.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: I'm picking my phone up 400 times in a meeting.
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: He just looks at me and I jump in and he goes oi, one person at a time, give a bit of structure.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Structure, that's all it is.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but you'll help me with that and I've got to leave my phone in the other room now, so I don't pick it up for no reason but um yeah, so you know, everything happened for a reason with me and um.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: Then when I come to the dragons, they.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: So I left the warriors so I did maybe two subjects over there.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Come to the dragons they had this um program that they started, where they allocated a tutor, okay, to help me do my work at um wollongong uni.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: So graduates of league program yeah so they helped pretty well get me through that's gone yeah, them and my um my wife did most of my work when I was um at uni sweet yeah well, but then by the end I could do that from start to finish on my own, but early days not really, early days not really.
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: Well done.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: You were able to write that assignment yourself.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: I could, yeah, I could do assignments myself.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: I was always all right with the exams, but in terms of sitting there and pumping out assignment, that wasn't for me.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: But it's good that you're able to stick through it.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: You've got the right support, the sort of team that sits around you to help you.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: I'm great in a team environment.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: I'm a team player.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: We'll be in a team every day.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Good halfback, giving me good answers yeah, it's key.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: So for you it's a bit different, okay coming through the women's game as you were coming through.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: For sure.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: At what point did you start to think, well, is this just it Do?
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: At what point did you start to think, well, is this just it?
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: Do I have to do something else to supplement, or was it something you had to do all the way through?
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: So like we were speaking about a little bit before, it's so tricky at whatever age you are in high school, 17, 18, to choose what you want to do for the rest of your life.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: So for me, I went to a really great school.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I actually really liked school.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Like I was sort of one of those kids in class that could talk to three people around me and somehow get the work done.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Oh no, ask me that, like that, asked me a question, I'd be able to just blabber it off even though I've been talking the whole time.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: But I loved it.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I loved the social aspect of school.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Went to a great school so I had good support, particularly because I wasn't there so often playing whatever the sport it was at the time.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: But I always knew I had to have some kind of career, whatever it was.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Just so happens to be at my school I had an awesome PE teacher and he was just one of those teachers that you know some people just get the best out of you.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Like it's like coaches, right, like some you just click with and you want to be a better person for them.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: That was sort of like my PE teacher and like it didn't matter if it was outside, obviously the physical aspect, but PE is, of course, health as well.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And yeah, he just made me think about I always knew that I wanted to do something within sport and then having him as my teacher as what do you call it?
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: As like one of the older ones.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Anyway, in year 11 and 12 as a senior I was like, oh sweet, I'll go to uni and be a high school PE teacher.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And then in my head I always had in my mind, I'll do that and I can always fall back on it.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Growing up hated the fact that I was a girl.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I always wanted to be a boy.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: I thought it was super unfair, but I was always like, at least I can have kids one day.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: I was like super maternal, yeah, like weird Cause that was close to my only feminine trait as a kid.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, at least I can have kids one day.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: So then when I sort of transitioned and got older and thought about my career, for some reason I still had that in my head.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh well, I'll do PE teaching and when I have babies, I know you can do casual teaching, blah, blah, blah.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just chose that and I ended up loving it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: So I actually ended up loving teaching a lot more than I sort of thought, a result of having like a really good mentor and someone that I sort of looked up to in terms of my PE teacher and then went to uni and uni was a little bit like school for me.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I was like this is fun, get the work done no dramas, just like socialize.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: And then, when I started teaching, I was like this is sick.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: I loved it.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: 16 weeks a year are holidays, mate.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: It's that good.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I only taught for the first 12 months.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: So straight out of uni I got a job straight away.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Like a high school in Cronulla Same thing Like of course that was going to be fun because it's a great demographic, so the kids are all good Piece of going to be fun because it's a great demographic, so the kids are all good piece of piece.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: So I had a ton of fun.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: I did 12 month block and after that I went to casual teaching because I was playing footy and I had to go to this camp and do that.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: So I just sort of pop in.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I'll be like oh guys, I can work monday, tuesday and thursday this week.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: No worries, we'll see you then come on in and then just play footy.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: For the rest, of it.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: It was so good.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: That is good.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: It's good that you're able to keep doing things you enjoyed doing.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: So you're enjoying doing teaching.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: You're enjoying with the rugby kicking off as well, that taken to where it is, you know, but to do that as well, you did more than just the playing.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: So you, as a you know, you started to recognize early the brand that was.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: That was you in some respects.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: What was that like?
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: um, yeah, it's sort of something that came across.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily realize it was coming to be fair.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Um, so, like a very quick history, when I started playing league again as an adult, that was the year I played um, so I just played club footy and then got picked in the origin squad, I guess, played origin and then from that got picked to play for the Gillaroos, so for Australia, and that Gillaroos game was the first women's rugby league game ever televised.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: So there was, it went.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Women's rugby league went from having stuff or traction from anyone sort of outside to got some attention and it took off like quite quickly.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: So I guess I was involved during that period where there was a fair bit of traction.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I ended up I mean, there were a few of us, mind you, but ended up, you know, in the papers after it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: And even when we were over in New Zealand during the games I was doing like the halftime interviews or the postgame interviews and I'm like this kid that loves footy, right, I'm like I'm finally back playing footy.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: So they'd be asking me about the game.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I'd be asking me about the game.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, yeah, it was so good, like I had a massive grin on my face.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: We beat the Kiwis.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: So I'm just talking about footy, I'm like loving it and yeah, I don't know so anyway.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: So I sort of just naturally got a little bit of traction as the game did and opportunities came that way, and that was when I realized it was actually.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: This is like a three minute story, do you want?
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: There was a moment where I was like this is actually quite big in terms of what we can do and what I can sort of do.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: So after being in New Zealand and playing in the first women's games that were televised, I got asked to come on.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: It was a show on Channel 9 and Fox.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: When we came back to speak about Women's Rugby League, more people ended up watching it than they thought they wanted one of the girls on the show and they asked me and I said no chance, no chance in hell.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: It was my worst nightmare.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I only ever let like my mum and dad come and watch me play footy.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Like I hate the attention, don't like having birthdays, just play light footy because I love it.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: The post-game interviews caught me off guard because I'm literally walking out and I'm like that was so good, like just thriving.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: But if it had been planned before the game, I'd be like no, no, someone else can do it.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Like I just want to play footy.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: How?
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: good is it seeing old interviews, like with yourself?
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: talking.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I literally look like anyway, I'm just a little 12-year-old kid.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I wasn't, I was 20-something, but I driving but yeah anyway.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: As a result of that I got asked to come on a couple of shows, said no to the point where they were like, oh, we don't think she's going to do it.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: And they were like she's got to do it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: So they ended up speaking to my parents and I can't say no to my dad because I just think the sun shines out of his butt to this day.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: He's like look, mate, you've always given everything a crack.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Why don't you try it once?
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: If you hate it, damn it okay.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: So I said yes, shitting myself the whole time.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: It was the channel nine went on the old school footy show.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Um felt like my heart was beating out of my chest, hated every minute of it, spoke about like because it was talking about myself too, like and my team, but you know they had clips of me playing over there.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: It was just worst case scenario.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Um hated as much as I thought I was going to hate it.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Went to Woolies the next.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: This was when I was living in Cronulla.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: I went to that little Woolies in the mall and I remember walking down aisle four I couldn't remember it as well as anything and this random bloke came up to me he said oh, alana, I saw you on the footy show last night.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Instantly, heart dropped.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: This is my worst nightmare.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: He's like Like oh well, I love watching, like the clips.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: We didn't watch the games, but I love watching that.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: My daughter's been asking me to play rugby league for years.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to let her play now.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: Oh, how good.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: And I was like I literally have goosebumps, right now, I was like, stop it.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: There's a kid out there that might potentially love footy as much as I do.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: She was never allowed to play.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's allowed to play league now.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Perspective for me, and I had to hold on to that for years because I was so uncomfortable with my job for so long and I always had to change my perspective on.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Look, don't make it about myself, and my dad helped me so much my parents, but he's like, don't think about yourself in this scenario and you being uncomfortable being the spotlight.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Think about what you're actually doing for other people.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I swear to god, I had to think about that every single time on the way to and the way home from work and anything from there on for so long because I was so uncomfortable with it.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: But knowing that there was a kid out there, a little girl that was allowed to play footy because they saw me, I've been trying to run rings around the kiwis, which I certainly didn't.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I was half the size I am now but yeah, that was just the best thing ever and it helped me so much.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that fueled then your well, I wouldn't even say an interest, but that fueled you then to start to recognize the role that you could have in supporting others.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it made me realize that I need to not be so self-absorbed, to don't worry about me being uncomfortable when it can have a positive impact on someone else yeah and like it's just like.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: I just don't like being in like any kind of spotlight.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Like avoided a wedding, don't like birthdays.
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm happy to go to everyone else's and like pump them up.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: I just don't personally like it.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it was just.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: You know what it's not all about.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: You think about other ways.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: You can sort of look at it and, at the end of the day, like I like my job now, love it.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I get to talk about footy with people that are my mates now like it's awesome, but the idea of it still makes me really uncomfortable that mindset shift but it's just.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, don't make it about me, yeah yeah, I love that.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: That is good, I mean, and.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: But that's what gives you confidence then to to do the speaking.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Do you think then, as a tv personality as you are now, um, do you think you'd have done anything differently to to get to that spot?
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Would you've trained differently, done different courses, done things in a different way?
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: now I'm pretty like easy going, like I've always got I'm 100 into whatever I'm doing, like I'll pour everything into whatever I'm doing.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Um, but no, like I'm like, oh, I know that there's something else around the corner if it doesn't work out, to be fair, like other than injuries, it's all sort of been fine, even with my jobs.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Now, if I've got a contract coming up, because I'm like contracted as well at the end of the day, like if they don't want me or if something goes wrong I'm a teacher like I can go back and teach.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: It's all good.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: So I think that certainly works in my favor.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: But easy goinggoing, but if I'm in, like I'm all in.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's good.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Now for you, though, that transition coming out, you know, thinking about going all in, you're stopping your football career.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: It ends you found yourself moving into mortgage broking.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: What was that like for you, quite?
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: different.
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was so in that last year I was trying to get a deal off the Dragons and they sort of were saying, no, there's nothing there now, there may be, there wasn't, there will be.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: It was like there may be.
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: And then an opportunity come up in the commercial team as well, which was going to be like a three-day-a-week job, which I'm still doing now, and I sort of had to make a decision.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: Do I, you know, hang around like a bad fart and hopefully get a deal at the end of the year, or you know, then I'm left going like I could have turned that job down.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: I was like you know what.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: I just got to bite the bullet.
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: So I decided to call it and I had my mortgage broken, which for sort of the last few years of my career I've been going in with my Unite partner Jaden, my mate Tony and I don't know if I just went there to socialize.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: But they were doing mortgages.
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: So I was around the industry.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: But you see, do you know what I love about that?
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: What's really clear for you is it was the environment.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: So there were good people that were there, mortgage broken, having a laugh, whatever it might have been.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: But you found that right culture, cultural fit, and that's I touched on the corporate feel there earlier on.
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: And my mate Tony, he had like what do you call it?
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: Well, mate Tony, he had like what do you call it?
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: Like there was like three or four boys in the office.
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: So and then I sort of understood you go out and meet people for coffee and be more social, which I love, and networking.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, I thought this is going to be easy, retired, enjoyed myself in the off season November 1,.
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: I go in 9 o'clock About 9.20,.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: I'm like, all right, I'm done Like I didn't know what to do, like I had no work because and I was essentially self-employed from the start.
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: Um, I wasn't, you know, comfortable call like I was messing with my mates going.
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: Anyone need a home loan?
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: Um, so that was sort of my first couple of months I've got a couple of loans that I settled anyway.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: I get to probably the end of january and my mate, tony, said he's leaving mortgage broken.
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: So I find another job.
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: Covid hits and I had a fair amount of money in the stock market as well that fell off a cliff when COVID hit.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: So then I just went into.
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a really tough period.
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: That transition ended up being really tough that first year.
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: What was tough?
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: Well, I didn't have a job, with the mortgage broken, I was stuck at home.
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: But look, the positive was I was able to homeschool my little boy.
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: My daughter got sent to daycare every day because she was too mad to look after her own To see your sis.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was out.
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: So the family side of it was good, but in terms of being busy, I love being not busy.
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: I love achieving and doing stuff.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, kind of that busy, I love being not busy, I love achieving and doing stuff.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of that structure.
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: And a very goal-orientated structure.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: Still training.
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: But, yeah, that first that's probably.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, mate, until the end of January I thought I was on a rocket ship and then, you know, two or three things fully changed my trajectory that year in terms of my investments, my work, life yeah anyway, I ended up changing business to lci.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: yeah, um, I was doing mortgage broken there and I was not enjoying it, um, so I got the end of the year and then that's when I found oxygen home loans, which, um, I ended up being with them until well I'm still currently a credit rep and transition away to you know, yeah, um, but you know that, yeah, that was tough like the building my own day, having structure in my day and I'm very routine, orientated, like I have a robin sharma weekly planner so I write my meetings on it at home when I'm training, um, the kids have stuff on, uh, I'm very, very structured and even recently I asked like a heap of close people for like a positive and like a few negatives on my personality and a few people said you're way too structured.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: But I love having that structure in my day.
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: And something even happened the other day when my mate asked me to come over and hang out and stay the night.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Matt's got a calendar.
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: It really rattled me.
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: You're my brother's like that.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I don't get that eh.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Do you find the structure?
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I'm structured because I feel like if I don't write it down and plan in and I can't get it all done.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: But I'm also not structured to the extent I can go outside it.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Like if I've got like spare time.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: What a novelty.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm happy to go with the flow.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, I'm happy to go with the flow, but I just need to see it all like the same thing.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: You've got kids, you need to go.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: X, Y and Z, You've got this appointment to fit in.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: You've got these work commitments.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, training.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to train at the same time every day.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: But that's when everyone else is asleep anyway.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, if someone threw a spanner in the works.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: I could love that.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: Give me more Really.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Because I have like a morning routine I do as well like gratitude, journal, meditate review my goals every day.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Did you do this Every day?
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Did you do that as a player?
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: No, I wish I did all this, because my happiness now is 11 out of 10 and it's to do like I went out to Bathurst on the weekend and didn't do my normal morning routine for two days.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: As our friend Jade can say I was a bit off on the Monday and I reckon it was to do with that and being out of routine.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Yep, wow, yeah.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: What are your goals every day?
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Just daily goals.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: No, no, no.
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: Like my, my, my six month goals, my 12 month goals, my life goals.
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: Every day, I'm still working on my work structure with Ryan, which he's helping me with.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: He's like you're not structuring at all.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Turn it up.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: I'm just staying quiet at this time.
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: I'm like okay, all right that's good.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: But I'm also easily distracted as well.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: Who isn't yeah?
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: But you know so thinking, then you know so thinking, then you know I asked you there, had you brought that in as a player?
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: What that different?
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: you know I would have been way better.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I honestly like if I had the routine in my morning, because we got told where to be at what time.
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: So you need to be here at six o'clock.
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: You're going to stretch and do your prep, prep.
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: Then we're going to be on the we're going to do video.
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: So you do stretch and get prepped, then you go up and do video for an hour.
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: I could walk out, old man, I couldn't even move.
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: So then you have to get warm again.
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: Then you're on the field, then you're going to have lunch, then you're going to do weights, then you're going to go home.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: So then you go home and I had no structure then, both of you.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: When you look back then at your career, thinking about perhaps the transition to life, to where you are today, what you've done differently do you think to perhaps to set you up better for your life after sport?
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like, to be honest, be playing sport.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: When I did, I was set up because I had to be.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: It might be a little bit more relevant to that, but like we didn't get paid, I think we got like match payments or camp payments or something for playing origin and jewelry, but you're still at a loss from what your normal job would be.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, and also my career, where I am now, I was never going.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: The alternative would have been to go to uni and do a journalism degree.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: That would never have interested me like whatsoever.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, I just think in terms of my setup it probably I wouldn't have changed much because I knew I wanted to do something in sport, ended up doing teaching, loved it, and then it just sort of evolved the way it did.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Because I said to my boss actually maybe a year or two in, what should I do?
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Like I want to get better.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: I was pissed off because I didn't enjoy it and I was like I'm used to playing footy, where if I don't get better at every game then I'm off it like I want to.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: So and I approached my work the same way, like being um on telly doing whatever the show was, I, yeah, if I wasn't better the next week, I was filthy, filthy at myself.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: So I I spoke to him and I was like I want to get better.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Like, can I, is there a degree I can do?
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Is there a course I can do?
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: And he basically said, no, mate, it's, it's sink or float, like you're already here.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: No, no degree is going to help you now.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: You just need to learn on the job and take advice from people as it sort of comes.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's literally.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I literally got told at Sink or Float, which it kind of is right.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Mate full on yeah.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: I was doing my first job at Channel 9, as opposed to just doing random shows and you just get paid per appearance the following 12 months.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: My first role was there were two women, female players.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: There were two of us and we went on the Sunday footy show and we did alternate Sundays and about halfway through the year they were like I could only be one of you next year.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: That's sweet, okay.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: That competition, that contract kicks back in again.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: I was like okay, welcome to TV.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: This is heavy, but I appreciate that, like I appreciate at least the honesty of knowing that it's what I'm used to Like.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: As I said, I grew up playing footy with the boys.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: I've always had male coaches and I've had brothers, so I'm quite black and white in terms of information.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: It's something that I think a lot of coaches struggle with, that they've spoken about struggling with playing, or, sorry, coaching.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Women's sport is that women are obviously so different and I'm obviously female to a degree, but I, growing up in a man's's world, I think I learned how to accept a lot of those you know like just values and that's sort of how I was growing up, so I'm not super precious in terms of I'd just rather know the truth yeah, like I'm shit at something, tell me I'll work on it and we can go from there.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: As opposed to, I don't have to be, you know, like nurtured in the way I'm told I guess don't be gentle.
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was a bit the same in going into commentary because I was on a show.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Being on a two-hour show is so different to being in the commentary team for a game, so a show two hours.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: You've got so much time to speak about whatever you want really.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: You cover all the games.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: You analyse them still, but you've got time, obviously.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Whereas you talk about Thursday, Friday night footy, You've got two segments before kickoff.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: You got one touch.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: You know you've got 37 seconds to hit it there might be vision.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: Someone's talking to you in your ear.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: The host asks you a question.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: The crowd's noisy, like there's a lot going on and they're like wrap it up in 10 seconds.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: You're like I don't know and like stop talking to me when I'm trying to talk like it's full on.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, same thing, like he like my um.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: One of my bosses at the time called me and said, hey, um, what are you doing on Thursday?
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, teaching.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Wow, what's going on?
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: He's like, well, do you want to do Thursday night footy?
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: And I was like, yes, I want to do Thursday night footy, let's go.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: And I was like what does that mean?
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Does that mean I'm on the commentary?
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: Like am I commentating?
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: He's like well, we'll see after Thursday if we ask you about much a try, no worries, but yeah 100 pressure's on.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but I appreciate the honesty yeah, and you, I guess you thrive under that pressure, you're used to it, you'll get.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you got on thursday running happily, baby yeah, five years down the track no, that's good.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: No.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: So when you think about what could you have done to better prepare you for where you are today, yeah.
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: So first I'll start with I.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Um, I wouldn't change anything in one sense because everything has happened for a reason to get me where I am and everything is really taking shape for me in the last sort of six to 12 months.
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: But second to that, I always try and well, in the last couple of years as well, I've sort of had a mentality to try and get 1% better every day.
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: So I wish I maybe had that back in when I was playing footy.
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: Uh, and don't get me wrong, I, I worked hard, I did a lot of the things right, but there was some days I'd fall off a cliff.
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: So maybe I was only getting better four to five percent better a week instead of six to seven percent.
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: But my main thing, uh, because I did all the education stuff, I did that really well.
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: Um, and I saw what and this is what I I talk to current players when you have events with the club sponsors.
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: They love rugby league and they want to talk to the boys.
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: But sometimes there's I don't know if it's, you know, oh, hang with the boys in the corner because you're comfortable.
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: But I wish I was a bit more proactive and got out and spoke to every single person who sponsored the football club, because they want to help the boys.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like that.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: I'd rather be in the corner with the one person that I know.
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like I'm uncomfortable, like that, if someone wants to come up and talk to me.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Happy as Larry, but I'm a bit shy to that degree where putting myself out there yeah, it's not because I don't want to.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: It's not because you want to share whatever your company, or just.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I feel a little bit awkward in those scenarios Still to this day.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, we have so many lunches and charity things.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: I'm happy, as Larry, to stay on my table.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: But if someone comes over great or we're wanting to meet this person, like could talk to them for 20 minutes, I'm just pretty poor at initiating those conversations.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is common Certainly for a lot of athletes find it difficult in that room with all these people who kind of come from a different world.
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: It's like they're in this corporate world.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: They're over there but they love rugby league, they love it.
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: They're there because they love rugby league.
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so now with Unite, that's my job getting out and talking to people, and I'll be wearing my Victor shirt out to see all the sponers put my goggles on.
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: What do you reckon?
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: I think it's good.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: It's a good conversation.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: Start of the goggles, it is.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: So I've been thinking about the goggles.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: You think about yourself, you stepping out.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: You say a lot of these corporates they love the game.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: You find yourself in the game, something like the goggles that you were part of creating something very innovative in the game, something like the goggles that you know you were part of creating something very innovative in the marketplace.
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: Where would something like that come about?
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: So how did this whole idea come?
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: about yeah.
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: So me, jaden and Luke initially started Unite Jaden's best mates with Victor Radley.
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: Victor has a great following.
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: You know he's a people's champ.
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: I think that all started back when he won the comps.
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: He was talking about getting on the beers.
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: So personality and what we're looking to do at Unite is leverage.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: The boys use their brand to monetize that.
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: So with Victor it was building shirts and he did a few other products, which it was psycho how many sales he got, uh, in like 48 hours, um.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: but and I guess that that demonstrates, I suppose the, you know the the strength of an, an athlete's brand so as that as they become quite famous and they get that moment.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: Alana, you spoke about, you know, being interviewed as you came off the field on that first televised game.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: That helped position you into a spot where you were able.
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: You're ready to take that opportunity and so here you're talking about is that something you see as growing for athletes Massively?
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: With both.
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: Social media players are now more open to doing that.
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: We're also working with James Fisher-Harris and Moses Leota, the Bash Bros, because they've obviously won the last 30 premierships.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: They are the Bash Bros, they're the two best front rowers in the competition.
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: So they're now leveraging the brands they've built through their character on the field but more so off it.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: They're great guys, they're family men, but then they cross that line and they're brutal.
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: So they're open to doing merch and we help facilitate that.
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: So in a few years, if they want to go well, now that Fish is going over to New Zealand, but they still play the Kiwis together they can run that brand themselves.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: We teach them how to run the brand, give them all the background information and then they can then monetize that into the future.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: And then with this that was Luke Lewis' idea.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: That was a ripper.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was Luke Lewis' idea.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: That was a ripper.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was great, so good.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: But you know, there were so many things had to fall into place.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: One, nathan Cleary, coming in the second half and getting the job done.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's crazy, you know me.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: Louis and Jaden were on the phone all night that night it was definitely a massive pinch yourself moment and in terms of awareness and eyes, that really helped build the Unite brand.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: Do you know what's fascinating about both of you and the stories you're telling?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: Although coming from different paths into the game, you were both able to take opportunities and get yourselves in that right spot.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: As the opportunities came about, with the view of then saying, right, well, how can you use it?
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: In fact, how can you just sort of follow your nose and see what comes next?
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, definitely.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: I'm like well, how can you use it In fact?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: How can you just sort of follow your nose and see what comes next?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, definitely.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: And that's even with Alana with her TV opportunity and then being aligned with us at Unite.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: That's what rugby league does.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: It opens doors and people want to be around rugby league players.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we are.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: People want to be around athletes.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, athletes, rugby league or otherwise yeah, um, so we want to be around athletes, yeah, yeah, I think it's that passion or that, that thing around sport.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that often when you're in the game you don't quite recognize how much fans, how much of the companies, enjoy watching it.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: That that entertainment you see the boys and now the girls.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: You're so sheltered like it's.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: You think it's just you in your little environment, but there's a big, whole world out there that you know.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: The rugby league landscape is large.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: I think sport helps people survive and what sometimes we as players don't realise because you are in that environment and you are, you know, so yeah, it's just so compact is that people don't even have to be playing the game to rely heavily on it.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: You know, what I mean, like it means.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Sport means so much to people All the time we speak about how it brings people together.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: We saw that through COVID.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: I think during COVID was such a fascinating thing for everyone to yeah, 100%, and to realize how much we sort of rely on it for mental health, for motivation, for enjoyment.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Like off season for the footy.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: It's sweet for like two weeks and I'm like hey cricket.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: A, I'm off it, let's watch something else We've got to keep going.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what are we doing?
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: 100%, but yeah, it brings people together it means that you might have mates coming over and you watch the footy with them.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: You could never have played a game of rugby league in your life.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: It doesn't.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Like the boys or whoever it is, mind you, but sometimes, typically it might be the blokes are watching the footy and then the chicks are having a wine, like whatever who cares?
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: It brings people together to be able to enjoy the same thing, and I think that's something that we realized during COVID how important sport is and sometimes, as a player, you forget, because you're in that little world and your teammates are your life and they're your best mates, but outside of it it's so much bigger than you, life and they're your best mates, but outside of it it's so much bigger than you, and that's what you have to constantly be reminded of and that's why brands like Unite are so important to remind you of that.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm very fortunate.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: When you speak about opportunities and making the most of them, I think we certainly have, but the influence from my parents was the reason I've made the most of my opportunities.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: It's those constant reminders.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: You're very motivated.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Give things a crack, then see, see what happens.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: But, like, the opportunities are there for you to take them, see where they go.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: If you're invested in, if you love it, let's go.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that's what the boys are doing so well at unite is just reminding people not everyone I'm I'm sure not everyone's had a similar upbringing or maybe constantly being reminded of those things and when they are, it's like a little bit of a no brainer.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't think about that.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: It's a good point.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: Now you mentioned athletes or players, forgetting the impacts that they have With the growth of the women's game, and both of you give back to the sport, to individuals.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: With the growth of the women's game, I'm guessing that female players are going to come to you.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: They're going to chat to you for advice or guidance.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: What can they do to well, make sure they don't forget as the game becomes more and more professional?
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: What can they do to perhaps be prepared for the opportunities as they arise?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: I think conversations are really important.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: Like, as you said, I'm I'm so happy I've still got so many mates that play sport, but even I've had women reach out from completely different codes, like some cricketers, aflw players that have reached out to me for advice and look, I don't know everything.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: I'm just fortunate enough of timing.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: When I was going through and playing, I was lucky with a few things.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Obviously, I've landed on my feet in terms of being in the commentary teams for league and rugby and I want to help anyone and everyone I possibly can.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: So I'm so open to sharing my experiences, but also things that I could have and certainly would have done different along the way.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing is it doesn't matter what you're doing.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: If you're playing sport, if you're looking to venture outside of that, make the most of the relationships that you've got, and you can learn something from everyone.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: If you're playing, you might have a coach that you think is useless, doesn't know the game got nothing, but they'll still have one thing that can help you and I think that's something that you can think about in every aspect of your life.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: Everyone's got something to offer you and sometimes, at the end of the day, it might be how not to do something, but everyone's got something to offer you, so if you're open to learning from everyone, then you're going to be ahead every day of the week.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's such good advice and because I think sometimes, yeah, you need to listen to the, the people who've got the runs on the board, so to say, like the older players in in a playing group, because they've been through most stuff and um.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: Just coming back to the unite stuff and the advisory side of it, like when I was a player, I had a few properties and we got advice off someone who wasn't very good at advising and we lost about 70K on a property.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I only found you know LCI after Rugby League and if I had them in my corner when I was playing oh, mate me too.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I would be in a totally different financial position, 100%, and even, like when I mentioned, be in a totally different financial position 100%.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: And even when I mentioned I lost a fair bit of money on the stock market because I was so emotionally invested and I had no one advising me.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: So I think, having these people around you while you're playing and while you're young, they can give you the right advice because, unfortunately, even now, I don't know everything.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: I've handed over all my investing stuff now not to have that emotional attachment?
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 4: Right, Because when you're emotionally attached and property has that emotional attachment as well, I reckon.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: Whereas if someone's like buy, sell, do this.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: At least you can blame someone if it's bad advice.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I think it's a really important role to play in sport, that right team in your corner.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: Because you've got player managers but essentially there's no one, especially even like what we have here at Unite, helping with all that stuff.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: So there's the brand staff, there's the advisory, which can help players.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: When they do retire, they can have the freedom to.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 4: If they want to go on TV and be a commentator, they can.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: If they want to go surfing down the coast, they can.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: It commentator, they can.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: If they want to go surfing down the coast, they can.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: It's freedom of choice.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: Now, listen, that's really good, and I gotta say thanks for sharing your time for this, this conversation right now.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, what I really take away, you know, from yourselves today is, I think, about to support you with that transition.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: There's at least four things.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: There's probably more, but there are four things that you've really mentioned.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: One is that environment, or that team structure, so having people to support and advise you on field and off field as you're going through your career.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: You both continue to learn.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: So there's that, be it academic or be it just that desire to learn from, from others, from what you're doing.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: Taking the most out of each of those experiences, again, I think, is quite powerful.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: Um, that next bit, then, is definitely on the networking.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: So both of you spoke about, you know, coming up with friends who you trained with, who changed clubs, who then made it easier for you throughout your career, both athletically and now sort of off the field.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: And I think the last bit, the fourth bit, is that readiness for opportunity.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: You might have needed a little nudge, like from your dad telling you get in there, you're going on, but that little nudge or from a friend pulling you in, but you're both then taking advantage of that opportunity, recognizing that I suppose the sport, or the athleticism, that made you good in sport, if you take an opportunity off the field, you know, if you back yourself, that's probably going to come good as well.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: 100, yeah, yeah, so, yeah.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: So I just got to say thanks again for joining me on the show.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: It's been absolutely brilliant to hear your story and get your tips.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having us.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: Thanks for on cheese, good man, all right, thank you.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the second win podcast.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwinio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: That's all from me.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: Take it easy until next time.