Latest / Ambitious Podcast / EP. 36: Mastering Agency Growth: Insights from Gabrielle Tongol

Transcript

EP. 36: Mastering Agency Growth: Insights from Gabrielle Tongol · Ambitious Podcast

• 0:08
  Hello you guys and welcome back to Ambitious.
• 0:10
  So today we are joined by a guest, one of my absolute dear
• 0:13
  and best friends, Gabby, and I have to give you a little intro
• 0:16
  and a little bio about her before we dive into all the
• 0:19
  goodness that is unpacking what the reality is to scale an
• 0:22
  agency. So I want to give you a little
• 0:24
  bit of timeline about Gabby very quickly to kind of give you some
• 0:28
  some perspective about how she came to be the CEO of the agency
• 0:32
  that she has today. So in 2017 to 2020, she was as
• 0:36
  many people when they start before an agency, a solo service
• 0:40
  provider who was a freelancer and specifically was assisting
• 0:43
  with social media management. And so then Fast forward to
• 0:46
  December 2020, she stopped being solo and really stepped into
• 0:51
  that identity and that role for herself as a CEO.
• 0:54
  Her services at this time expanded to virtual assistant
• 0:57
  type services, social media management, as well as graphic
• 0:59
  design. So Fast forward one year later,
• 1:02
  20/21, she continued to grow and actually then shifted to
• 1:06
  becoming, yes, a team of seven people.
• 1:09
  And so I want to help you to really understand all of the
• 1:13
  different aspects of what it took to from solopreneur all the
• 1:17
  way to a scaled team of seven agency that's absolutely
• 1:20
  crushing it in multiple different departments.
• 1:22
  Might I add. One of the things that we
• 1:24
  covered in today's episode was going over the concept of not
• 1:28
  having necessarily a super specific super contained niche
• 1:33
  in the idea of capping the areas of which you could support
• 1:36
  clients. We're going to be diving into
• 1:37
  team and we're going to be talking about pricing and
• 1:40
  packages and all the different ways that you can optimize your
• 1:43
  current service or your current agency to really take you to the
• 1:46
  next level. So this was a really, really
• 1:49
  juicy one. You're going to want to get out
• 1:50
  a notepad if you are somebody who has an agency or you're
• 1:53
  currently a service provider because this is basically a
• 1:56
  master class on how to scale an agency and you're going to take
• 1:59
  some notes along the way. So without further ado, let's
• 2:01
  get into today's episode. Hello, you guys, and welcome
• 2:04
  back to Ambitious. So I'm here today with Gabs, who
• 2:07
  is actually, I will have you know, I was thinking about this
• 2:10
  when I was quickly peeing before we started recording.
• 2:12
  You were actually the first person who's ever come back
• 2:15
  twice. It's an.
• 2:16
  Honor. It's an honor, an honor.
• 2:19
  And so if you guys hear us with some cans, we basically turned
• 2:21
  Gabby's loft in her house here in Calgary into like a baby
• 2:26
  podcast studio. So we basically took over and
• 2:28
  just moved all her furniture. And one of the things that has
• 2:32
  come up since staying here was that she introduced me to Alani,
• 2:35
  which is technically an energy drink company.
• 2:37
  There are a lot of things they have pre workout they have like
• 2:39
  protein bars, everything. Well, she has a small
• 2:42
  convenience store in her house and because of that she has this
• 2:47
  mini fridge of all these different flavors and so I'm
• 2:49
  working my way through. You guys have a nice crisp.
• 2:53
  Yes, that I Chris. Cheers.
• 2:56
  Cheers. I'm trying the Peach 1 today.
• 2:59
  I've tried the other ones. They're all delicious.
• 3:00
  What? Do you think juice, adult juice
• 3:07
  as you would say? So you don't like caramel apple?
• 3:09
  No, I don't know what it is. Apple, watermelon, cherry.
• 3:12
  Like there's certain flavors in drinks I can't do eat them,
• 3:14
  different story. OK, The Peach I can give thumbs
• 3:17
  up is good to go. It's so good.
• 3:19
  I am, if you guys are watching this, wearing the most
• 3:22
  interesting little headset because we didn't have enough
• 3:26
  mics to have just like a separate mic.
• 3:29
  So I have and if you're listening to this, it's almost
• 3:31
  giving McDonald's take your order.
• 3:34
  It's really quite it's quite a vibe.
• 3:35
  So I'm going to see how I feel about it and if you guys see me
• 3:37
  with microphone headset in the next episodes then you will know
• 3:40
  how this unfolded if. You basically can go on stage
• 3:42
  right now and like have a full on.
• 3:44
  Performance, I like how free I am with my hands.
• 3:46
  I can hear everything the mic, I don't have to go closer, further
• 3:49
  away like it's actually quite good for me to have mobility
• 3:52
  while I'm doing this. This is good but a little bit of
• 3:54
  the context so on the last episode that Gabs came on, we
• 3:57
  were talking a lot about her influencer side of her business.
• 4:00
  So she has two arms to her business.
• 4:02
  And in that episode, we really unpacked the one-on-one of
• 4:05
  everything you need to know as it pertains to considering being
• 4:08
  an influencer or the realities behind the curtain of being an
• 4:10
  influencer and all those pieces. But in US chatting in just all
• 4:14
  of our off time, we're like, there's so much that we haven't
• 4:17
  gotten into in her story, which is the other arm of her and her
• 4:21
  business and what she's done, which is her agency.
• 4:24
  And you guys are in the DMS, which I love, by the way.
• 4:27
  I love hearing from you guys, the questions you have, the
• 4:30
  topics you'd love to hear about. And one of the big things that
• 4:32
  has come up is how I actually scale an agency.
• 4:36
  Like I feel like my agency is stuck.
• 4:38
  I feel like I don't really know how to go to the next level.
• 4:40
  And Gabs has actually completely crushed it in the last couple
• 4:44
  years with her agency. She has worked with a lot of my
• 4:47
  clients, a lot of my peers, and we've had the absolute pleasure
• 4:51
  of kind of like swapping services, I guess I would say,
• 4:53
  because I've coached her on some of her stuff.
• 4:54
  She's done, done for you stuff for my business.
• 4:57
  And so Gabs, welcome back. So ambitious.
• 5:00
  So how'd you be here? In person too.
• 5:02
  In person too, Even better. So we just had our episode
• 5:05
  actually go out very recently. That was like a case study of an
• 5:08
  agency and it broadened a lot of questions about like this all
• 5:12
  seems like common problems everyone's having.
• 5:15
  And so like, maybe you can give like a high level.
• 5:16
  We talked a lot in the last episode about the influencer
• 5:19
  side of your business, but like, maybe you can give people a
• 5:21
  super high level of kind of like the evolution of your agency,
• 5:24
  like kind of how it came to be and where it's at today.
• 5:26
  Yeah. So I started as a freelancer.
• 5:28
  I was doing all the different things that I could, just trying
• 5:31
  to get my, my business off the ground so I could stop working
• 5:33
  for corporate. And then in December 2020, you
• 5:36
  know, COVID happened and that was a great opportunity for us
• 5:38
  to become an agency. I didn't really label it agency
• 5:41
  at the time, just like I just want to grow a team because I
• 5:43
  can't work by myself anymore. Then we became an agency and we
• 5:47
  scaled to being like a team of honestly four within like six
• 5:51
  months or so. So it was fairly quick that we
• 5:53
  scaled the the team size and today we're a team of eight.
• 5:57
  And I think something that's very different is the my team
• 5:59
  members are exclusive to assist our agencies.
• 6:01
  So they don't work with any other clients or another agency
• 6:03
  or anything like that. So, yeah, we are a done for you
• 6:07
  service agency that caters to a lot of the different back end
• 6:11
  things that a business might need and that's very different
• 6:13
  for sure from a lot of other agencies.
• 6:15
  Yeah. And like obviously with doubling
• 6:17
  your team, it's scaled pretty quickly then.
• 6:20
  Yeah, yeah, it was one of those things, like I said, I was like,
• 6:21
  oh, I'm just hiring some team members, you know, And then it
• 6:23
  became, OK, figure out how to be a leader, figure out how to
• 6:27
  manage different people, figure out how to please everyone,
• 6:30
  figure out how to please yourself too, in the in the mix
• 6:32
  of it. So a lot of leadership and team
• 6:35
  culture, things came up a lot faster than I was expecting.
• 6:39
  And just like a lot more to kind of deal with came up before I
• 6:43
  was even ready for it. Well, I remember one of the
• 6:45
  first things like when we started working together, which
• 6:49
  I was like, OK, like now I've got you've got my attention is
• 6:52
  when you're like, I don't really like wanna like niche.
• 6:54
  Yeah, interesting. So like let's dive in.
• 6:57
  And so obviously, you know, you guys have heard me on other
• 6:59
  episodes talk about like, you know, pro niche, anti niche.
• 7:01
  And so I think there's kind of two sizes I see it.
• 7:05
  I see the people who go super, super specific in the sense of
• 7:08
  like, I have a very one specific track of what I want to do and
• 7:11
  they're super, super niche. And then there's people who also
• 7:13
  will go so broad and wide in the sense of like they can really do
• 7:17
  everything. And so like when you were kind
• 7:19
  of thinking about crafting the agency and crafting like who you
• 7:22
  guys were and what you were going to offer, how did you kind
• 7:25
  of navigate that? Like what made you lean toward
• 7:28
  more of like the anti niche if you will?
• 7:30
  Honestly, it comes down to who I was myself.
• 7:33
  Like I was very much a multi passionate individual at the
• 7:37
  time. And I was like I said, doing
• 7:39
  everything that I could that was available to do online as I was
• 7:42
  building up my own freelancing business.
• 7:44
  And so when I became an agency, I said, I want to keep that even
• 7:49
  now being an agency. And so I said, well, we're going
• 7:52
  to just offer everything that we've already offered being a
• 7:54
  solo person. So I've, I've kind of kept it
• 7:56
  that way. And then I've also just been
• 7:58
  open to helping whoever I can. Doesn't matter who you are or
• 8:01
  what you do. If we can solve that problem,
• 8:04
  like we'll do it. But yeah, when it comes down to
• 8:05
  the niche, I've just been so anti niche for so long because I
• 8:08
  just feel like that's just as such a small box to live in, in
• 8:13
  so many different ways. And so I think it's been a great
• 8:16
  thing. And there's also some cons to it
• 8:18
  that we can definitely unpack today too.
• 8:20
  But yeah, I think it just stemmed from my own personal
• 8:22
  belief that like, I didn't want to be only doing one thing or
• 8:26
  serving 11 pod, I guess you could say.
• 8:29
  And so that's kind of where it came from.
• 8:30
  It was just like it was more of a personal choice than anything.
• 8:32
  That I just is not something that I stood for.
• 8:35
  Yeah, we were even like talking the other day because Gabs also
• 8:37
  does consulting. So she basically coaches other
• 8:40
  people who are looking to build agencies and unwind to scale
• 8:42
  agencies as well. And so we were just kind of
• 8:45
  chatting and going back and forth around strategy stuff.
• 8:48
  And we opened up the conversation of the idea of like
• 8:50
  really creating your business and your packages and your
• 8:54
  products really based off of yeah.
• 8:56
  And I think one of the things that I see with your agency that
• 9:00
  really, frankly is quite different than others is like
• 9:03
  you guys saw not just a section of the problems that
• 9:05
  entrepreneurs were dealing with, but you're like, they're having
• 9:07
  issues in marketing and delivery and sales and team and back end.
• 9:12
  So it's like, why would they need to hire a separate person
• 9:14
  to build systems when they also need someone to do their
• 9:17
  podcast, but they also need someone to help build their
• 9:19
  course? Like before your type of agency,
• 9:23
  it really was something that you had to hire like a generalized
• 9:26
  VA or something along that line to really get that type of work
• 9:30
  done. And the interesting thing that
• 9:32
  I've seen with your agency specifically was like, there's
• 9:36
  specialists who do those. Like you don't just have a bunch
• 9:39
  of generalists on your team. Like you really have filled
• 9:42
  every single bucket. And so like for you kind of to
• 9:44
  your, your note earlier, what are some, I guess, like the
• 9:47
  resistances or like cons that you've basically experienced and
• 9:50
  being like, obviously it's a massive benefit.
• 9:52
  So many people I know have worked with you and been able to
• 9:55
  get like 5 different areas in their business managed by you in
• 9:58
  one place, which is amazing as the consumer, no question.
• 10:01
  But I'm sure on the delivery side, it makes it a lot to be
• 10:05
  able to handle all of that. So like, what does it look like
• 10:08
  as to the things that you feel like have been kind of resistant
• 10:10
  in doing it? Marketing.
• 10:12
  Marketing is definitely my biggest issue in being so broad
• 10:17
  and being in all the different buckets because yes, you've
• 10:21
  coached me to like look at the problem only and like, you know,
• 10:24
  know that there's just multiple ways to solve that.
• 10:26
  But I'm still talking to so many different people.
• 10:29
  And so that's probably the biggest struggle that we have on
• 10:31
  being the agency that we are is that like I've had many people
• 10:34
  be like, I did not know you do this because they've only known
• 10:37
  us for maybe two out of the five things, right?
• 10:39
  And it's really hard to relay that on a daily basis, I guess,
• 10:44
  unless someone actually takes the time to like binge through
• 10:46
  everything kind of thing. But I think that's the biggest 1
• 10:48
  is just like being able to make our our services aware because
• 10:51
  there are so many different ones.
• 10:52
  That's probably our biggest one. And then I would say we make new
• 10:56
  services on the go too, you know, like it wasn't really a
• 11:01
  service, but we have this. We have custom dishes every
• 11:05
  night of the week. Every night of the movie, that's
• 11:07
  pretty much what it is, to be honest, Because when you have so
• 11:10
  many experts on a team and like, you know, familiarity of the
• 11:15
  client and like the the businesses and if they come up
• 11:18
  with a new problem, you're like, well, let's just introduce this
• 11:22
  new service in this new way of helping you with that, right.
• 11:24
  So I think that's the challenge is that because you feel so free
• 11:27
  to do everything that falls under like back end.
• 11:30
  That's literally so many different things.
• 11:32
  So it's kind of trying to keep a cap on it too is a struggle.
• 11:35
  And like even just categorizing all the different things that we
• 11:38
  do under different categories is hard to because it's like just
• 11:42
  so many. Well, like, how do you navigate?
• 11:44
  Cuz I feel like a lot of business owners have that.
• 11:46
  Like, I think one of the downsides of being an
• 11:48
  entrepreneur in general is like you just see opportunity
• 11:50
  everywhere you go to get a doughnut and you see branding,
• 11:52
  you know what I mean? Like it's just, it's everywhere.
• 11:53
  Yeah. And so I'm curious like for you,
• 11:57
  how do you navigate when to say no then like how, how do you
• 12:02
  navigate when the impact or the consequence to the business
• 12:07
  outweighs the opportunity of being able to solve another
• 12:09
  problem for the client? I think that's being aware of
• 12:12
  like where where we really excel, where we really excel
• 12:16
  versus where we don't. And then also, you know, what we
• 12:19
  what we enjoy doing as well. I think that's a big thing
• 12:21
  that's important to me too, is that the team enjoys what we're
• 12:23
  doing. Obviously, just like when you go
• 12:25
  to any regular job, there's some things that you love, there's
• 12:27
  some things that you don't. But I think it's also important
• 12:29
  that when I do make a decision to introduce a new service, it's
• 12:32
  like, does it really align with, you know, you and like where you
• 12:35
  want the company to go and like all the other services that you
• 12:37
  already have? And so, yeah, it's definitely a
• 12:39
  challenge for anybody, not even just an agency, but I think it's
• 12:42
  really just evaluating like, does this actually make sense or
• 12:46
  are you just doing it because you just want to please the
• 12:48
  client and please the the issue at hand right now, you know?
• 12:51
  Well, I know like one of the biggest things that I've seen
• 12:54
  with your business kind of on that same note is like pleasing
• 12:56
  the client. Like one thing I know, which is
• 12:58
  why you've worked with so many people that I know and like we
• 13:00
  work with you and we refer people to you is because of like
• 13:03
  delivery. Yeah, because I know one of the
• 13:06
  the tricky parts about scaling an agency is that there
• 13:08
  typically is an aspect of team and delegating to people and not
• 13:14
  necessarily the person that's selling you, the person that
• 13:15
  you're interacting with being the one who actually does the
• 13:17
  service, right. And so obviously with doubling
• 13:21
  your team starting with you, then it being four people, then
• 13:23
  it going into eight people, like for you, you guys have like
• 13:27
  boatloads of referrals and renewals coming in left, right
• 13:30
  and center. And so when you guys think about
• 13:33
  really delivering like high quality service to people, do
• 13:37
  you find that difficult at times because you do so many things or
• 13:40
  like how do you guys kind of navigate ensuring high quality
• 13:44
  service when you have your hands in quite a few things at the
• 13:46
  same time? I mean, it's all the same
• 13:49
  principle and value that we go into everything that we do.
• 13:51
  You know, no matter how big or small the thing that we're doing
• 13:54
  is we all, we always want to give the delivery that we want
• 13:57
  decline to experience. And so I don't think that really
• 14:00
  changes that at all. I do think that they do all fall
• 14:04
  under the same kind of blanket in a way, you know, like it will
• 14:08
  even if it is like a different service that we didn't have or
• 14:10
  like multiple, right. But at the end of the day, like
• 14:13
  just the, the client experience is very, very important to us,
• 14:16
  no matter what service that is, whatever task that is too.
• 14:20
  So it is a challenge sometimes, especially if it's a newer one
• 14:23
  versus something that we've done like forever.
• 14:26
  But I mean, as long as we're exercising the same way that we
• 14:28
  would approach anything, I think it's, it's makes it doable for
• 14:32
  sure. And I think that there's lessons
• 14:34
  in it too. There's sometimes that we've
• 14:35
  definitely bit off more than we could chew.
• 14:37
  And that becomes a great lesson for us to just be able to learn
• 14:40
  and then move forward from that. So sometimes you don't know
• 14:43
  either. Sometimes you just have to take
• 14:44
  that chance and just see what happens.
• 14:47
  But yeah. Well, in connection to delivery
• 14:49
  like obviously in you coaching agencies and then like Gabby
• 14:52
  does coaching inside of our program ITAC accelerator as
• 14:55
  well. And so you have access to seeing
• 14:57
  behind the curtain of a lot of agencies, Yeah.
• 14:59
  And then also coaching agencies to have one of your own.
• 15:01
  What do you think is the biggest missed mark when it comes to
• 15:05
  delivery in most agencies that you see?
• 15:07
  Like where do you think people who have agencies or even
• 15:10
  service providers who are looking to kind of step into
• 15:12
  that? What is something that you would
• 15:14
  say is kind of like the differentiator that really makes
• 15:18
  it work when it comes to giving a really, really good quality
• 15:20
  experience or key things that someone might want to dive into
• 15:23
  or focus on if they want to make theirs better?
• 15:25
  I think really caring, genuinely caring about the outcome and I
• 15:29
  say that and I really mean it. I think people are very fixated
• 15:35
  on just like the actual deliverable and like very
• 15:38
  transactional kind of partnership with their clients.
• 15:41
  And I think what makes us very different is the fact that we
• 15:44
  actually say that we're in a partnership with you instead.
• 15:47
  Because I think that really making sure that, you know, the
• 15:49
  client knows how much you care about their business is another
• 15:52
  thing than just like giving them a service, giving them podcast
• 15:55
  clips or whatever that might be. You know, like I think there's
• 15:57
  that level of depth in a relationship that's very
• 16:00
  important for whether you're an agency or not.
• 16:03
  But I think that's a very important thing in client
• 16:05
  delivery is like just actually really genuinely caring and also
• 16:09
  going above and beyond to a certain extent as well.
• 16:12
  And also just making sure that the experience is good from
• 16:14
  start to finish, from the minute that they get off a call with
• 16:17
  you, from the minute that they on board, I think is very, very
• 16:19
  important. And like, you know, just that
• 16:21
  that interaction that you have with them to like communication.
• 16:24
  That's a big one that I think a lot of agencies, service
• 16:27
  providers do fall short on is like communicating with their
• 16:29
  client. They just kind of like don't
• 16:31
  keep them in the loop on like what's going on.
• 16:33
  I think that's a big one. So like really over
• 16:34
  communicating is very important to us.
• 16:36
  And really, you know, emphasizing the why behind
• 16:38
  certain things that we do or don't do, I think is very
• 16:40
  important too, because it's not that people aren't open to why
• 16:43
  you't not doing something or the way that you're doing something.
• 16:45
  It's just something curious. So I think that's another
• 16:48
  important thing that has really elevated the client experience
• 16:50
  is just really having your clients inside our brain a
• 16:53
  little bit more because especially if they've come from
• 16:55
  another agency or another service provider, they're like,
• 16:58
  why are we doing it like this when I'm used to doing it this
• 17:00
  way? And it's like, well, because XY
• 17:02
  and Z. So I think that's very important
• 17:03
  as well. Is that you really like get your
• 17:06
  client on, on the same page as you as to like, yeah, how you go
• 17:10
  about things. And I mean, hopefully that's
• 17:12
  conversations that you have with them even before, you know, sign
• 17:15
  that contract and and enter that partnership.
• 17:17
  But I think that's also a very important one.
• 17:19
  And I think just like high, high touch points, like I know some
• 17:23
  might disagree with how much we are in stock for sure.
• 17:26
  But I do think that it has been something that's made us very
• 17:29
  different in that sense because there's never a guesswork of are
• 17:32
  they doing what they're supposed to do.
• 17:34
  And I think like I said, like the over delivering part, like
• 17:37
  there's certain things that will do that like weren't technically
• 17:40
  on paper or like promised or anything, but like we saw an
• 17:42
  opportunity and we did that for that client.
• 17:44
  And I think clients really appreciate that because like I
• 17:47
  said earlier, it goes back to how much you truly care about
• 17:49
  their business and you're not just there for that
• 17:51
  transactional exchange. And I think that's something
• 17:53
  that really needs to change in the online service world is that
• 17:56
  everything is so transactional. And I think that's what's really
• 17:59
  cultivated the long term partnerships and relationships
• 18:02
  that we have with our clients is because we have been there with
• 18:06
  them through a lot of different things in their business, the
• 18:08
  UPS, the downs, all of it. And because they've allowed us
• 18:11
  to be part of that, I think has is what really, you know,
• 18:14
  cultivates such strong partnerships there.
• 18:17
  And it just all comes down to treating clients as humans, not
• 18:20
  just an invoice. Yeah.
• 18:22
  And I think that's a big thing that I love to emphasize when I
• 18:25
  have the opportunity to. Is that like the more that you
• 18:27
  can put a human element to like what you do and just the way
• 18:30
  that like you would want to be treated as a person at the store
• 18:33
  or when you go get a service here and whatever city you're
• 18:36
  in, you know, just like really applying that in the online
• 18:38
  world to, I think that's something that we've lost sight
• 18:41
  of a bit on the online world is like that.
• 18:43
  We're all behind screens and that's it where it's like, no,
• 18:46
  like we all have emotions. We all have, you know, we all
• 18:49
  crave that connection and stuff. So I do think that that's
• 18:52
  another thing. And I know that doesn't really
• 18:54
  sound like tactical advice, but I think it's just like something
• 18:57
  that's really made us different is like, you might be more
• 19:00
  skilled at us, at something that we do as an agency.
• 19:03
  Like if you're a competing agency, but we have a different
• 19:05
  level of like love and connection with our clients that
• 19:10
  you just can't, you can't teach that either.
• 19:12
  It has to be something that is important to you.
• 19:14
  And I think because you've cultivated that in our team, you
• 19:17
  know, core values, it really does show with whatever team
• 19:20
  member you work with on our agency.
• 19:21
  We all are the same. Yeah.
• 19:23
  And so I think that's a very important take away that I'd
• 19:26
  love to share with agencies or freelancers or anybody really,
• 19:29
  is that just remember that we are all human and that is truly
• 19:33
  what's going to get you far in the services that you have to
• 19:35
  provide, in the skill sets that you have to offer.
• 19:37
  Well, it's interesting that you say that about the communication
• 19:39
  because I was talking to an agency owner this week who has
• 19:41
  like a multiple 7 figure agency and listen like all of us have
• 19:45
  those moments behind the scenes, especially with your coach where
• 19:47
  you're like, if this client messages.
• 19:49
  Me one more time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:51
  And so anyways, we're having that conversation and it was
• 19:54
  interesting because the that came through was like, they just
• 19:57
  need to let me do my job, like just get out of the way, stop
• 20:01
  asking questions. And I hear this of all different
• 20:04
  industries, Like I hear it in ads, I hear it in social media
• 20:06
  space and social media management of like the clients
• 20:09
  asking like, why are we editing it this way and why are we
• 20:11
  writing the captions this way? And why are we posting at this
• 20:13
  time? And so it's interesting that you
• 20:15
  say that about keeping the clients in the loop because?
• 20:18
  I think the biggest thing that people have the misconception of
• 20:20
  when it comes to an agency is like, oh, they're delegating it
• 20:22
  to us. Yeah, let us do our job.
• 20:25
  But if you even think about delegating to an internal team,
• 20:29
  like obviously people are delegating to you guys as an
• 20:30
  outside team and resource for them.
• 20:32
  But if you were going to delegate to an internal team,
• 20:34
  there's still a minimum aspect of communication that you would
• 20:37
  want to have to have a high level understanding of what the
• 20:39
  heck is going on. Yeah.
• 20:40
  So like, obviously you don't want them micromanaging you, but
• 20:43
  I loved that you shared that because I think the agency
• 20:45
  owners often get frustrated that the clients are asking questions
• 20:49
  and they perceive it to be that they don't trust us.
• 20:51
  They won't let us do our job. They're trying to get in the
• 20:53
  way. And really for you, what I'm
• 20:55
  hearing you say is that like basically by doing not, not only
• 20:58
  are you actually deepening the relationship with your client,
• 21:01
  you're working them into your process with you, you're also
• 21:04
  like making them part of the experience.
• 21:05
  You're not just like, hey, give us your tasks and we'll do that
• 21:09
  for you. It's like, hey, as to your point
• 21:10
  earlier, we're a partnership in your business and we're gonna
• 21:13
  kind of like educate you along the way while also giving you
• 21:16
  support in the areas that you're looking for.
• 21:17
  Yeah. And I think agency owners like
• 21:20
  it's fair that they're like, why do you do it that way?
• 21:23
  Why not? Why can't they ask that?
• 21:25
  You know what I mean? Like unless you got something to
• 21:27
  hide, why not have them ask you like I?
• 21:29
  Think it's the idea of like communication, right?
• 21:31
  Like to your point of like maybe we're in Slack more than most
• 21:34
  people. I think that the interesting
• 21:38
  about scaling is that often people want the answer, but they
• 21:41
  don't like the answer they get, which is like if you want to
• 21:44
  scale an agency, you obviously want to have as one of the core
• 21:48
  aspects of it retention and referrals and renewals, which
• 21:50
  obviously you guys have tons of and you have for years and
• 21:53
  that's a testament to your delivery.
• 21:55
  But if you're like, hey, you want the renewals, the referrals
• 21:58
  and all the people who come back time and time again, IE monthly
• 22:01
  recurring revenue, the main thing you need to focus on is
• 22:04
  the relationship with your client and not just the
• 22:07
  deliverable. They're like, yeah, but what
• 22:08
  else is the first thing? Nothing that happened.
• 22:12
  Right. OK, not nothing else, but like,
• 22:14
  you know what I mean? Like that is the the core of it
• 22:17
  is like build that relationship. You know, it's like the same
• 22:19
  thing like why you keep the same hairdresser for so long or why
• 22:22
  you keep the personal trainer for so long.
• 22:23
  Well, because they've gotten to know you and you've gotten to
• 22:26
  know them and build this trust together that no matter what
• 22:29
  journey you're on in your life a your business, I'm going to go
• 22:33
  to you for that, right? So that's really the key, key
• 22:36
  element that I think so many people are missing is like, you
• 22:38
  have to pour into these relationships for more than just
• 22:41
  what surface level. Yes, that takes time and effort,
• 22:44
  but it's so, so worth it in the end when you do hear the things
• 22:48
  that they say about their time with you, you know, and I think
• 22:51
  that's just something that's so overlooked because it's, it's
• 22:54
  more work to be honest with you, you know?
• 22:56
  You could also pour that time into your existing clients
• 22:58
  instead of having to pour it in the front.
• 23:00
  End Marketing. Non-stop marketing, trying to
• 23:02
  find more and more and more. That's actually more effort in
• 23:04
  my opinion. You know, that's actually more
• 23:06
  effort in my opinion, And you know this because that's
• 23:09
  literally, you know, that's just our thing.
• 23:11
  But you know, that, right, like podcast like that is that it's
• 23:15
  truly like, you know, being able to just like pour into the
• 23:19
  relationships you already have is definitely, like you said,
• 23:21
  far less work than it is to do that on the front end.
• 23:24
  And it's just it's more rewarding in my opinion, you
• 23:26
  know, to be able to see where some of our clients were five
• 23:28
  years ago when they first started with us when I was a
• 23:30
  solopreneur to where they are now.
• 23:32
  So incredible. I mean, it definitely is also
• 23:35
  weird sometimes to see like how many of my team members are
• 23:38
  incorporated into that profile. And it was just me back then.
• 23:41
  And it's just, it's such a beautiful thing to be able to
• 23:43
  see the evolution of that. And I'm sure it's like kind of
• 23:45
  the same feeling for you seeing some of your clients who have
• 23:47
  been with you for so long. It's like, wow, like just the
• 23:49
  evolution's amazing. And so I think that goes to, you
• 23:52
  know, something else that's just very important to me is just
• 23:54
  like seeing like the long game of it all and like really being
• 23:58
  able to be a part of that journey while also providing
• 24:00
  these services. Like it's just, it's just not
• 24:03
  just services to me. It's much bigger that it's a
• 24:05
  much bigger investment on both ends.
• 24:07
  And that's something that I make very transparent to our clients.
• 24:10
  Like, hey, if you're looking for someone to just do XI and Z,
• 24:13
  that's not us. Yeah, like I am, I'm very much
• 24:16
  want to know a little bit more about XY and Z to kind of paint
• 24:18
  the picture better for us. You know, we will want to get to
• 24:21
  know you on a personal level because, you know, we're talking
• 24:23
  on a weekly basis, you know, like that's all important to us.
• 24:25
  And so that's something that we've just, yeah, it made very
• 24:27
  transparent. And so it's not very, it's not a
• 24:29
  surprise to clients when, you know, that's kind of the
• 24:31
  questions that we're asking. So I think that really depends
• 24:34
  on the person, what's important to you as a human as well.
• 24:37
  And that is something that's important to to the whole team.
• 24:40
  Well, even in the note, because I hear this all the time from
• 24:43
  agency owners, which is they have someone who starts with
• 24:46
  them in like the OG days when they got started and they get
• 24:49
  like, quote UN quote, grandfathered into the process
• 24:51
  and you're like, didn't expect Stacy to be here for seven
• 24:54
  years. And so they end up being a long
• 24:55
  term client, which is amazing. But you're talking about
• 24:57
  services. And I think that this is
• 24:59
  something that a lot of agency owners, they, they struggle to
• 25:02
  navigate because there's a million and one different ways
• 25:04
  in which you can structure an agency, right?
• 25:07
  Like you can have obviously the one off more intensive type of
• 25:09
  offers and services, you can have the ongoing services.
• 25:12
  And one of the things, cuz you're talking about ongoing
• 25:15
  clients, I often hear is like, people are like, my clients have
• 25:17
  been around forever and they're literally paying me pennies
• 25:19
  because the business has grown leaps and bounds from when we
• 25:22
  first started. And so like when they're
• 25:24
  updating their packages and their pricing and stuff like
• 25:26
  that, they have to kind of like loop in the old clients because
• 25:29
  the business is growing so fast. And so I'm curious for you, like
• 25:34
  when you think about your packages and your pricing and
• 25:36
  your offers and all that, because obviously again, back to
• 25:39
  earlier, like you're very multi passionate, IE like you're like,
• 25:41
  I could basically solve any problem for you.
• 25:43
  Like just tell me what it is. I'll figure it out.
• 25:44
  Yeah, but then obviously what we what we always hear with scaling
• 25:48
  is like standardize everything. Everything is a process, a
• 25:51
  template, a quote UN quote, rinse and repeat.
• 25:55
  So it's this like kind of catch 22, right?
• 25:57
  Because you're like, I'm multi passionate, I have a lot of
• 25:59
  problems I could solve, but then it kind of feels like I'm
• 26:02
  setting up custom proposals every other week, which is a
• 26:04
  custom process, custom onboard and custom contract.
• 26:07
  And then you feel like, does that delay the business at all?
• 26:10
  So like when you're trying to figure out this duality between
• 26:13
  what the heck do Ioffer paired with?
• 26:15
  I can actually solve a lot of problems.
• 26:17
  And maybe even for you who's listening, you have a social
• 26:19
  media agency where you're like, I could do strategy, I could do
• 26:22
  just editing or I could do full management and you have all
• 26:25
  these different things. How did you guys kind of come to
• 26:29
  distill down like this is the core stuff that we do or do you
• 26:32
  feel like you kind of still play more within the custom bucket in
• 26:35
  your opinion? Oh.
• 26:36
  I 100% still play in the custom bucket and I'm sure it drives
• 26:39
  you crazy sometimes when you hear it, you know when we're
• 26:41
  talking about it, but you know, it's honestly it drives me crazy
• 26:44
  a little bit sometimes too. But I personally, there's
• 26:47
  certain non negotiables for me and allowing for some
• 26:51
  customization is something that I will forever keep in the
• 26:53
  agency. Yes, it might hold me back from
• 26:56
  certain opportunities. That could be a very much more
• 26:58
  rinse and repeat process, but it's what truly has enabled the
• 27:02
  connections that we have. For example, I still send a
• 27:05
  custom loom for any proposals that I send.
• 27:08
  I could very much delegate that to a salesperson or admin.
• 27:11
  But for me, sending that custom loom to a client is what's
• 27:15
  already starting that client experience, that client delivery
• 27:17
  that we've been talking about, you know, like that right off
• 27:20
  the gate, they're not even signed with me yet.
• 27:21
  And I'm already, you know, kind of feeding into that.
• 27:23
  So there's certain things like that that I'm just like, for me,
• 27:27
  I know that this is a big part of the client delivery and
• 27:29
  experience. So I don't want to get rid of
• 27:31
  that. I don't want to outsource that.
• 27:32
  I don't want to automate it, nothing.
• 27:33
  And I'm a fan of automation and templatizing.
• 27:35
  Don't get me wrong, I love that stuff, but there are certain
• 27:39
  pieces to the puzzle that I feel for me, it's important to keep
• 27:43
  on the on the customization route.
• 27:45
  I will say too, it's also just like listening to what people
• 27:49
  needed was kind of our way of like, kind of like having our,
• 27:52
  you know, bases covered. And so you know what I'm talking
• 27:55
  to someone about like, you know, whatever problem they want
• 27:57
  solved, There are certain themes that we can kind of talk on.
• 27:59
  But I mean, when it comes to like what the actual pack is
• 28:02
  going to look like at the end, it's it's kind of like, it's not
• 28:04
  like Subway, you get your base sandwich and then there's all
• 28:06
  these different add-ons. I love that, right?
• 28:08
  Like it's or Chipotle, whatever 1 you want, you want to go off
• 28:11
  of, but it's the same thing. And so I think as long as I have
• 28:13
  my base, it's easy for me to customize off of that.
• 28:16
  But I truly don't feel I'll get rid of that because it's just
• 28:19
  such an important piece of the client delivery.
• 28:21
  And I think that's something that you should consider when
• 28:23
  you're trying to figure out, you know, what do you automate?
• 28:25
  What do you templatize? What do you standardize and all
• 28:27
  that stuff is like what's important to you in the overall
• 28:30
  experience, You know, And like what and I hear all the time
• 28:34
  from inquiries when they get our proposals, even if they don't
• 28:36
  sound with us, like thank you so much for putting this time into
• 28:38
  this proposal. It's really, you know, it really
• 28:40
  made me feel like special, right?
• 28:42
  And so, yeah, it really stands out.
• 28:44
  And I think that's another key thing.
• 28:45
  I think that people will start going off of like who they go
• 28:49
  with, not just off price or not just off like the deliverables,
• 28:52
  but also like who they connect with, the more who they are
• 28:54
  going to trust the most, you know?
• 28:55
  And so I think it's very important that when factoring in
• 28:58
  what you want to do and how you want to go about things is like
• 29:01
  how are you going to make that person feel at the end of the
• 29:03
  day too. It's very much like how we
• 29:05
  approach anything that we want to hire out for or purchase into
• 29:09
  or whatever. So I think that's something to
• 29:11
  just really strongly consider. And so on the sales note, cuz I
• 29:14
  love that the idea of the looms, cuz even for me, you can tell
• 29:18
  when someone sends like a standardized e-mail,
• 29:20
  standardized contract, standardized proposal, like
• 29:22
  you're just like, OK, like hi dubs auto, how's it going?
• 29:25
  Like it's all just so standardized.
• 29:27
  So I love the aspect of, of customization and kind of think
• 29:30
  when I go to like the sales side, you know, obviously you
• 29:33
  guys have done like promotions and you've done launches and
• 29:35
  then you've done like Evergreen selling.
• 29:37
  Like when someone's thinking about the selling side of an
• 29:40
  agency, what do you feel like have been kind of like your
• 29:42
  biggest takeaways around what works when it comes to selling?
• 29:46
  Because like you said, you noted earlier, like I could delegate
• 29:48
  that to a salesperson, but like, I don't actually know if that
• 29:51
  makes sense or I could automate that in the sales process, but
• 29:54
  like that also might not make sense.
• 29:55
  So what are some of the things that you guys feel have really
• 29:58
  helped or supported you when it comes to scaling the sales of an
• 30:02
  agency? I think adjusting to whatever
• 30:05
  everyone's kind of needed at the time of like what's going on in
• 30:08
  the market right now is in a big one so that we can kind of like
• 30:11
  speak to that. I do think that a lot of it
• 30:14
  comes down to like I'm still definitely like in the weeds of
• 30:17
  the sales for sure. And like that's not going to
• 30:19
  change. I think the only thing that I've
• 30:20
  been able to really change is like once I have that touch
• 30:23
  point with the with the client, then I do delegate it to the
• 30:26
  team on the admin. So like sending the contract and
• 30:27
  stuff, but like other than that, I feel that for me, like I've
• 30:31
  really kept that all within in my wheelhouse still because like
• 30:35
  I said, it's the connection that I wanna keep there in regards to
• 30:38
  getting to know that client, that potential client and that
• 30:41
  who becomes a client too. So really keeping that has been
• 30:44
  something that I've toyed with a lot of like sending that,
• 30:47
  changing that. But when we have tried it, like
• 30:50
  you can just really tell, you know, like, you really do feel
• 30:52
  that like, OK, like you said, like, hey Dubsado, you know, so.
• 30:56
  Title of. The episode, but I think too,
• 31:00
  it's just like kind of figuring out like what should be you and
• 31:02
  like what, Like what makes it different by being you, I think
• 31:06
  is what has how I've decided like what to change in that
• 31:09
  selling process and what hasn't changed.
• 31:11
  So, yeah, I think, and I mean, I've delegated other things in
• 31:15
  the business that have allowed me to have that time to keep
• 31:18
  things on that personal side. So, you know, like, again, going
• 31:22
  back to like what's important to me, well, that's important to
• 31:24
  me. So like what other things am I
• 31:25
  doing that I could, you know, outsource to someone else on the
• 31:28
  team so that we can keep things moving a little bit faster, a
• 31:30
  little bit better. So sometimes it doesn't have to
• 31:32
  be just in that, like it can be in somewhere else too.
• 31:35
  Again, going back to whatever is most important for you.
• 31:38
  Well, I think it's also like, I love what you said about the
• 31:40
  idea of like adjusting to the market because I think it's
• 31:42
  also, and we were just was talking about this the other
• 31:44
  day. I think sometimes with agency
• 31:46
  owners, there is always this balance in every business.
• 31:48
  But there's what you love doing. Yeah.
• 31:51
  And then there's just genuinely what people are buying right now
• 31:54
  and what they're looking to invest in and the problems that
• 31:56
  they're solving. And so I think what's
• 32:00
  interesting to me that I hear a lot is like, well, I like to do
• 32:03
  blank. And I'm like, I love that for
• 32:05
  you. But also what is your ideal
• 32:08
  client or what does the person that you're looking to sell to
• 32:11
  ultimately want and need? And then does your agency or
• 32:13
  does your service ultimately have that gap to fill?
• 32:18
  And I think that that does change just like it does in
• 32:19
  coaching. Frankly, there's going to be
• 32:21
  seasons where like, we were just talking about this the other
• 32:23
  day. Like the rise of podcast
• 32:24
  management has been nuts. And so like every single person
• 32:28
  that I know has like a podcast, you know, popping up left, right
• 32:31
  and center, which I love. But it also means, let's just
• 32:33
  say you are like a full done for you, you know, marketing or
• 32:35
  media agency and you don't offer podcasts right now.
• 32:38
  Yeah. And podcasts are one of the top
• 32:40
  things that people are asking for as it pertains to content.
• 32:43
  It's an opportunity to not just like pivot, but to kind of just
• 32:46
  like adjust attention and say, like, do we have have the
• 32:48
  resources to allocate to this? Is this something we should be
• 32:50
  considering as like a problem that we solve because the market
• 32:53
  has so much demand for it? And I think that that's
• 32:55
  something that there's one of two sides.
• 32:57
  There's people who only adapt to the market and they have no, to
• 33:00
  your point, like Subway. They have no classics that they
• 33:02
  have associated with their menu and they're all just seasonal
• 33:05
  all the time. It's constantly changing.
• 33:07
  And then you have the other people who dig their heels in
• 33:09
  where it's just like, this is all that Ioffer.
• 33:11
  I don't do anything else. I'm not listening to the market
• 33:13
  and like take it or leave it. And I feel like based off what
• 33:16
  you're saying, you guys kind of work the middle, which is like
• 33:18
  you really have the core menu, but then you add on things based
• 33:21
  off of what you're seeing happen in the market.
• 33:23
  Yeah. And if we have the skill sets to
• 33:25
  kind of adapt, why not do that then?
• 33:26
  Yeah, some things we'll have to learn that a little bit newer,
• 33:28
  but like we do have the fundamentals of what we need to,
• 33:31
  to pivot or not pivot as you. It's like pivot, not pivot,
• 33:35
  maybe pivot, however we need to, right.
• 33:37
  So like kind of a prime example was for a little bit, we had a
• 33:40
  lot of YouTube clients where they wanted us to, you know,
• 33:42
  edit a lot of their YouTube videos.
• 33:44
  YouTube has definitely changed just a lot over the last few
• 33:46
  years. So not as many people are on
• 33:48
  YouTube that we had in our clientele, but some of them have
• 33:51
  shifted to podcasts. So we were able to retain them
• 33:54
  because you're like, well, we edited your YouTube videos.
• 33:56
  Editing podcasts is somewhat similar, if not a little bit
• 34:00
  easier actually. So why not keep us in house for
• 34:02
  that? And then they did, right?
• 34:04
  So that was a prime example that yes, that was one of our main
• 34:07
  things. But then because it was kind of
• 34:09
  like not what the market needed at the time.
• 34:10
  And they were actually shifting into podcasts or like Instagram
• 34:13
  Reels back at the back then when Reels were starting to, you
• 34:15
  know, take off, like we were able to shift those skill sets
• 34:18
  into whatever the market needed. And so definitely there's some
• 34:21
  services where like a different kind of skill set is needed, but
• 34:24
  there are some common things in there that you can apply to just
• 34:28
  shift a little bit to accommodate the different
• 34:30
  problems that are needed to be solved today.
• 34:32
  And I think that's why we've been able to be around for so
• 34:34
  long from when I was by myself or when, you know, we are an
• 34:37
  agency is that we've applied the same skill sets, just obviously
• 34:40
  we've learned more things, but we've also just kept the same
• 34:43
  fundamentals in some of the services that we've newly
• 34:46
  created. Yeah.
• 34:47
  And it also means that your clients can rely on, you know,
• 34:49
  for like from a longevity perspective that you guys are
• 34:51
  able to adapt as their business is also adapting.
• 34:54
  You mentioned something that I want to expand on because I
• 34:56
  think this is like the triggers soft spot for agencies, which is
• 35:01
  quote UN quote, bringing things in house, right?
• 35:04
  And so like we often hear people will start to delegate to an
• 35:07
  agency and agency owners and I, I coach a lot of agencies, which
• 35:11
  is why I'm saying in general, all these things are coming up
• 35:13
  because there's big themes. People will work with it.
• 35:16
  They'll have a client that will work with an agency.
• 35:18
  The agency in their opinion will be hijacking and trying to
• 35:21
  understand their process so they can kind of quote UN quote bring
• 35:23
  it in house. And so for you, what is kind of
• 35:27
  your position when you're trying to communicate with clients and
• 35:30
  when you're trying to communicate in marketing?
• 35:31
  Because I know this is the thing that a lot of agencies struggle
• 35:33
  with. What's your kind of lie in the
• 35:36
  sand, if you will, as to like when someone should have you
• 35:40
  versus when someone should bring something in house?
• 35:42
  Because I know that is something that even social media managers,
• 35:46
  they'll have a client they'll work with like 2 years and like,
• 35:47
  you know what, I've decided to bring it in house and I know
• 35:50
  that sometimes it can be difficult because it's a long
• 35:52
  standing client. And so like how to kind of know
• 35:55
  how to navigate that with clients to say like for you,
• 35:58
  even as the agency they're working with, is there kind of
• 36:01
  like a line where you say to them, you know what, yeah, this
• 36:04
  is when you bring it in house or even in your marketing, how to
• 36:06
  communicate to people when that right time is.
• 36:09
  I think that's a great question because you actually did have a
• 36:10
  client leave us after, you know, two years because they wanted to
• 36:14
  bring someone in house. And that was a that was a hard,
• 36:16
  hard one for sure. To your point, because it's like
• 36:17
  a long time client, like nothing was wrong.
• 36:19
  They were just like, it's time to bring someone in house.
• 36:21
  And I think those indicators are 1 is a sense of control.
• 36:25
  I think people forget sometimes that agency owners do have other
• 36:28
  clients. And so when you know, that
• 36:30
  business owner wants you to be like out of back and call,
• 36:33
  that's not going to happen with an agency sometimes, right?
• 36:36
  Like, I mean, there's certain levels of time commitment that,
• 36:39
  you know, we'll give to certain clients and stuff like that.
• 36:41
  But I do think that when it gets to that point that you want a
• 36:43
  little bit more control over their schedule availability.
• 36:46
  That's kind of like an in house thing.
• 36:48
  Because then if you bring them in house, they're just dedicated
• 36:51
  to your business. Or when you have an agency, you
• 36:54
  have to be considerate that they do have other clients.
• 36:56
  Now that could be a pro and a con, because I think another
• 36:58
  good thing of having someone who works as various businesses is
• 37:01
  different insights, different insights, different experiences.
• 37:04
  So there's there's a pro and a con to that, right?
• 37:06
  But that's usually one of the main things is the sense of
• 37:09
  control and time management there that I find people when
• 37:12
  they're deciding between in house and agency.
• 37:14
  I think another thing is, is just having them exclusive, like
• 37:17
  not wanting to share that, that insight of the business, right?
• 37:20
  Some people really want to keep that confidential and like
• 37:22
  tight, right. So I think that's also another
• 37:25
  thing one is like, you know, while it's a great experience
• 37:27
  for us on the agency side, sometimes clients are like, no,
• 37:29
  like I want to keep it very in house, which is fair, which is
• 37:33
  totally fair. So I think that's another one
• 37:34
  there. I think processes and systems to
• 37:37
  what you you touched on earlier is a big one because when you
• 37:39
  are going to work with an agency or any contractor, you're
• 37:42
  basically have to get on board with how they they do things to
• 37:45
  a certain degree. I think that agencies, though,
• 37:47
  feel the poll to go the other way.
• 37:49
  I don't know if you agree with this, but I feel like with
• 37:51
  agencies that I speak with, they'll sign a client and the
• 37:54
  client has their perception, yeah, of what the delivery is
• 37:58
  going to be. So let's just say I'm a social
• 37:59
  media manager. The clients like I have this
• 38:03
  deadline, this is how I operate. This is how I make content, this
• 38:06
  is how I communicate. I don't do click up, I don't do
• 38:08
  slack, I don't do whatever. And like even for you come to
• 38:11
  the earlier point that you're like, we're like a partner in
• 38:13
  your business. So like, how do you handle
• 38:17
  people who potentially are resistant to your process?
• 38:20
  But then in your mind you're also like, hey, we're not your
• 38:22
  in house team, we're in it with you.
• 38:24
  You really care about your business Like Sarah, I love your
• 38:28
  business. However, it's also a system to
• 38:31
  your point of like the the agency technically is an outside
• 38:34
  entity and as a result, it has its own operating system.
• 38:37
  But I do think many service providers and, you know,
• 38:40
  contractors and agencies feel like they almost feel as
• 38:43
  constant, like pull back and forth of the clients being
• 38:47
  resistant to kind of adapting to their process and instead having
• 38:50
  the expectation the agency is going to adapt to them.
• 38:53
  But obviously at scale, when you have, you know, 2040, whatever
• 38:56
  clients, yeah. And the client says, hey, I
• 38:58
  don't use Slack, let's do e-mail.
• 38:59
  And you're like, no, because obviously it's your process, you
• 39:03
  have to have it scale. Like how do you guys kind of
• 39:05
  navigate that? Because obviously you're so
• 39:07
  connected to clients and then you're like not so connected
• 39:09
  though that we're going to change our process obviously.
• 39:12
  About right, I think again, just being transparent right from the
• 39:15
  beginning that like, hey, this is how we go about things.
• 39:18
  Again, it's not, it's not right or wrong, it's just being very
• 39:20
  transparent about that right from the echo is very, very
• 39:23
  important and some clients are going to have some resistance to
• 39:25
  it. But if you can explain the why
• 39:27
  behind it, I think that really opens them up to the
• 39:30
  opportunity. And also then on that note, you
• 39:32
  as the agency need to be ready that there's going to be a
• 39:35
  learning curve to this whole process too.
• 39:38
  And I don't think that's something that's communicated
• 39:40
  very well on the onboarding part is that like there is a learning
• 39:43
  process or learning curve, I should say, on both sides for
• 39:46
  the client and the agency. Because if you want them to get
• 39:49
  on board with your system and processes, well, then you have
• 39:52
  to also be willing to teach them and to support them as they
• 39:54
  navigate this whole new platform, this whole new way of
• 39:57
  doing things. Like they might be willing, but
• 39:59
  they're just going to need a little bit of hand holding.
• 40:01
  So if you want them to get on board on your ship, well, then
• 40:03
  you have to be able to support that, right?
• 40:05
  You have to give that hand to to help.
• 40:07
  So I think that's a very important thing to think of as
• 40:09
  well as that. If you want that, then be ready
• 40:11
  to support that and give patience and grace to that too.
• 40:15
  And I think honestly a lot of clients, yes, they give
• 40:18
  resistance because they're more so afraid and like intimidated,
• 40:21
  but they're not like. Click up is a.
• 40:23
  It's a beast. It's a beast.
• 40:25
  But I do think again, going back to what we're saying, like yes,
• 40:28
  there's a way that we like to do things, but we have made simpler
• 40:30
  versions and more complex versions depending on the
• 40:32
  client. And so I think that's why you
• 40:34
  just, you need to have a little bit of fluidity there because
• 40:38
  not it's not a one-size-fits-all as much as you'd like it to be
• 40:40
  like it's just not. And so I think that's something
• 40:43
  that we do is like, we just kind of we somewhat meet in the
• 40:45
  middle for sure where we can or just account for extra time for
• 40:49
  that learning curve. And I think that's really the
• 40:51
  best way to do it. And on top of just communicating
• 40:54
  right, right off the bat, if someone's going to want to do
• 40:56
  that. So I think that's another, you
• 40:57
  know, kind of going back to the original question, a very
• 40:59
  important thing to consider when you are thinking of like in
• 41:02
  house or agency is like, are you OK with that or not?
• 41:05
  Because if when you bring someone in house, it's a little
• 41:07
  bit easier to be like, like, Nope, this is how we do it.
• 41:09
  Get on board. It's like when you work for a
• 41:10
  corporate, right? Like they're going to send you
• 41:12
  all the Sops and that's just what it is, where some are going
• 41:15
  to be more open to collaboration and some aren't.
• 41:18
  So yeah, I think that's another big thing like in house and
• 41:20
  agency wise. And I think another thing with
• 41:22
  in house and agency wise is just like the amount of support
• 41:25
  you're going to get. You know, when people want to do
• 41:27
  in house, you're hiring multiple different individuals, different
• 41:31
  salaries, different, you know, a different, different training,
• 41:34
  different opinions, all that things.
• 41:35
  And so when you're hiring individual people, that's
• 41:38
  something to think about where when you're hiring an agency, we
• 41:40
  already have our own thing internally that we've already
• 41:43
  gone through. And like, you know, you don't
• 41:45
  have to manage all five people. You know, you have a point
• 41:47
  person that can manage that as well.
• 41:49
  And at the end of the day, you're, you're, you get like 5
• 41:52
  people for one is kind of like what I like to say too, which,
• 41:54
  you know, is definitely a pro when it comes to cost wise.
• 41:57
  And then just like not having to worry about having to train
• 41:59
  every single person with the agency.
• 42:01
  So there's definitely like pros and cons to it all.
• 42:03
  And I just think it depends on what you're ready for too, as a
• 42:07
  business owner, because I also think that it's a it's a bigger
• 42:09
  responsibility to have your own in house team members than it is
• 42:13
  to have an agency. And, you know, like the
• 42:14
  difficult decisions, the different conversations, that
• 42:17
  all falls on you when you work with an agency, you can talk to
• 42:19
  the main owner of the agency, for example, me express whatever
• 42:23
  you're feeling. And then I have to take care of
• 42:25
  it with my team of it. Yeah.
• 42:26
  So that's a big one that I've actually never thought of until
• 42:29
  right now is that, you know, difficult things like that.
• 42:33
  I'll. Note that down for later if you
• 42:34
  guys see that in the carousel, that's why difficult.
• 42:37
  Things like that you don't think of, right?
• 42:39
  And you know, something that I've I've said before is that I
• 42:42
  think that's a big misconception when building a team in general
• 42:45
  is that there's a lot of responsibility that goes with it
• 42:48
  that I don't think people are are are prepped for or ready to
• 42:52
  kind of explore. And so I think agent think
• 42:54
  hiring an agency over in house definitely helps give some
• 42:57
  cushioning to that until you are ready.
• 42:59
  So I think that's a big one as well.
• 43:01
  And you know, just the management aspect is just the
• 43:04
  big thing too, is that being able to just have that one point
• 43:06
  person or viewpoint people and then the rest like, you know,
• 43:09
  the agency's figuring out behind the scenes, I think is a nice
• 43:11
  relief for for clients sometimes rather than being in the weeds
• 43:15
  of it all. Yeah, I'm really happy you
• 43:16
  shared that because I think that a lot of the time agency owners
• 43:19
  will get that from clients, which is like I don't know if I
• 43:21
  should bring it in house. I'm not sure if the agency is
• 43:23
  the move, and I'm a big promoter of basically having #1A way that
• 43:28
  you're going to explain it to the client because they are
• 43:30
  going to ask and they are going to be curious.
• 43:32
  And 2nd, obviously putting it in your marketing.
• 43:34
  So there's also a clear, like a distinguishing factor as to like
• 43:37
  how, you know, if you're ready to work with us as an agency or
• 43:40
  like if this is like the right move.
• 43:42
  Yeah, just because the conversation naturally LED their
• 43:45
  team. Yeah, I think, you know, service
• 43:48
  providers, when you're kind of like a freelancer, you're just
• 43:50
  kind of, you know, solo in delivery.
• 43:53
  I think the word and the aspect of team and all the things
• 43:55
  around it can be terrifying for some people because most people
• 43:58
  associate team to be risk. Yeah.
• 44:01
  And frankly, if we put candid money, yeah.
• 44:03
  And so there's this kind of fear of like, you know, with agencies
• 44:08
  and a lot of agency owners that I've helped, like, I, you know,
• 44:10
  I just don't know what to do because I feel like in order to
• 44:12
  make more money, I need more people.
• 44:13
  And then in order to pay for those people, I need to make
• 44:16
  more money. And so I'm just like, it's a
• 44:18
  catch 22. Like I'm just stuck.
• 44:20
  Yeah. And so I think something that,
• 44:23
  you know, agency owners struggle with is like #1 do I have to
• 44:26
  have a big team in order to scale an agency?
• 44:30
  And with that, like if someone is nervous to expand into team,
• 44:35
  like where do they even start in the sense of how do they shift
• 44:38
  their perspective around what it could look like even if they're
• 44:42
  not right now quite ready to, you know, start or expand their
• 44:46
  team? I think for me, I was so curious
• 44:48
  about what my life could be like if I just had an extra hands and
• 44:52
  eyes. That's literally what I would
• 44:53
  say is like, oh, imagine if I just had more eyes and arms,
• 44:55
  Like what could I have get? What could I get done?
• 44:57
  And so that is kind of where I was like playing around with the
• 45:00
  idea. I definitely sat on it for a
• 45:01
  little bit. I'm like hiring even my first
• 45:03
  person, like even like my brother is my first person that
• 45:05
  I technically hired to video edit for me.
• 45:07
  And like, that was scary because I was like naive, your cost.
• 45:11
  And I'm putting this in your hands.
• 45:13
  Like what if you don't do it the way that I would do it?
• 45:14
  What if you don't do it good enough, right?
• 45:16
  But I think it's thinking about like where you are right now as
• 45:20
  a solopreneur. And you might not be there yet.
• 45:22
  You might not. Hopefully you can catch yourself
• 45:24
  before you get to that point. But for me, I was done working
• 45:27
  12-15 hour days. I mean, yeah, sure, maybe
• 45:29
  sometimes I still do that, but it's in a different kind of way.
• 45:32
  You know, it's for a different purpose.
• 45:34
  It's for a different responsibility than it was then.
• 45:36
  Like I was working on client deliverables first, like such
• 45:39
  long days and I just like, I knew that wasn't something that
• 45:42
  was sustainable for me. So it was either I'm good with
• 45:45
  the revenue that I'm making right now or if you want to make
• 45:48
  changes, well then make changes, you know.
• 45:50
  And so realistically I was like, I can't do this alone if I want
• 45:53
  to get to XY and Z, not just revenue wise, but also just
• 45:56
  being able to serve more people like you.
• 45:58
  Just you will run out of time in a day, you know, and just like
• 46:01
  energy wise and just like factoring in life and like your
• 46:04
  own personal things like, you know, like household chores,
• 46:06
  like you just sometimes we can't do it all as much as we'd like
• 46:10
  to, you know. So for me, that was kind of like
• 46:12
  a a big turning point was like that.
• 46:14
  And then also I was like, OK, if it doesn't work, doesn't work,
• 46:17
  you can go back to being a solopreneur.
• 46:19
  You don't have to, you don't have to stay as an agency.
• 46:21
  I actually know a lot of agency owners who were an agency and
• 46:24
  now they're not. I'm like, oh, OK, you know,
• 46:27
  like, and it's just because it didn't work for them.
• 46:29
  And like, you know, those are some things too.
• 46:31
  I'm not saying you can't make a lot of money by yourself.
• 46:33
  I think it's just a different way that you're going to do it.
• 46:35
  But I like if you want to continue doing it the way that
• 46:37
  you are and like the clear issues is that you don't have
• 46:40
  enough time or you're spreading yourself thin or like things are
• 46:43
  slipping through the cracks. Like that's when you know
• 46:45
  getting help is is going to be the answer.
• 46:47
  And so I'm also saw it as like, what is it costing me not taking
• 46:52
  this risk? And then, yeah, that's kind of
• 46:55
  when I I kind of hired, you know, some of our first team
• 46:57
  members. And then just seeing the way I
• 47:00
  was able to just step into a different zone of genius was so
• 47:03
  cool. Like being a true CEO and like a
• 47:06
  true business owner and like actually thinking about those
• 47:09
  things really shifted my perspective that yes, they are
• 47:12
  an additional cost me. Yes, there are risks for me.
• 47:14
  But like the amount of things that I can do and think of, like
• 47:17
  even thinking like we call it mental real estate, the amount
• 47:20
  of mental real estate that opened up for me, I was like,
• 47:22
  wow. And like I thought, you know,
• 47:24
  Katie, who is my COOI was like, yeah, it's just gonna be like
• 47:27
  5-10 hours a week. Well, that quickly, that quickly
• 47:31
  grew, you know, when you when you discover and get a taste of
• 47:34
  what it's like to be able to support it.
• 47:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was like a big one for
• 47:38
  me. And so I do think that to your
• 47:40
  question, like, do you need to have a big team?
• 47:42
  No, it really just depends on the complexity of how you want
• 47:45
  to build out your business. People look at me and they're
• 47:48
  like, you have eight team members.
• 47:49
  That's insane. I'm like, yes, but it's what
• 47:50
  works for me and it's what I want and what I love.
• 47:53
  So I do think that there's different ways and it just
• 47:54
  really depends on your business and the way that you're going to
• 47:56
  structure it and the amount of clients that you're gonna cap
• 47:58
  that out at and all that stuff. But I do think that it's one of
• 48:01
  those things that you have to think about it more as like what
• 48:05
  it can really do for you. And like I now when like
• 48:07
  delegating, think of like what actually needs my brain and my
• 48:10
  body and my face. And if it doesn't, it can go to
• 48:14
  someone else. I can teach someone else that.
• 48:16
  And I am so proud of the team that I have now because like
• 48:19
  literally everything that they do, they do it 10 times better
• 48:21
  than I could. And it's, it's such a great
• 48:23
  thing. And I think that just comes with
• 48:25
  time to like if you know, you are at that phase where you are
• 48:27
  going to hire one team member or multiple, letting go is probably
• 48:30
  going to be the hardest thing. But you have to just you kind of
• 48:33
  to see it differently as well. Like I think the biggest shift
• 48:36
  in becoming a solo team to like the team that we are today was
• 48:39
  like understanding that this is a business.
• 48:41
  Like it's not just like what is paying me.
• 48:43
  It's like it's a natural business now.
• 48:46
  Yeah. So like, how do you want this to
• 48:47
  be something that's going to support you today and in the
• 48:49
  long run? And, and it's honestly having a
• 48:52
  team is a totally different level of motivation for me now.
• 48:55
  Everything that I do, yes, is for myself and for the company,
• 48:57
  but it's also for the team. I love that they're a big driver
• 49:01
  for me. And I don't think I would work
• 49:03
  as hard as I do without them and their clients too.
• 49:06
  But I will see the team more than anything.
• 49:08
  So I do think that it's it's some things to think about going
• 49:11
  into it. It's just like, yeah, what is it
• 49:14
  costing you? And like what what could be if
• 49:16
  you just try And like I said, like it's not that it's
• 49:18
  permanent. So just think of that too, is
• 49:20
  that it's not permanent. Why not like dip your toes in it
• 49:22
  and just see? Well, I love the idea of like,
• 49:24
  are you really gonna do this until you're 65?
• 49:26
  Yeah. 15 hours a day by yourself.
• 49:27
  Literally, I was sitting at the kitchen table.
• 49:29
  Yeah. I was sitting at the kitchen
• 49:30
  table and I'm like, what am I doing?
• 49:32
  I'm like, yeah, it's great that I get to pocket X amount of
• 49:35
  money and not have to pay any expenses.
• 49:36
  But like, what are you giving up?
• 49:38
  Yeah. And like, am I really happy?
• 49:40
  Do I really have time to, like, go and hang out with friends,
• 49:42
  hang out with family, build my relationship?
• 49:44
  Like, no. And I think that was like a big
• 49:47
  realization for me is like, yes, the, like I said, the money is
• 49:51
  great that like you don't have other expenses, but in the grand
• 49:54
  scheme of things, like it just wasn't something that I knew was
• 49:56
  going to support me. Now being, you know, planning a
• 49:59
  wedding, planning family, like that's not going to be something
• 50:01
  like I, there's no way I could do that, right?
• 50:03
  So I think that's a bigger question to ask yourself when
• 50:05
  you're considering hiring A-Team or, or growing into an agency is
• 50:08
  just like, where do you really see your future?
• 50:10
  And do you really think what you're doing today is going to
• 50:13
  support that? And if not, there's a solution
• 50:15
  and it's going to be scary for sure, but why not try it?
• 50:19
  Well, you hit on something at the beginning, which I have to
• 50:21
  circle back to because I feel like this is like a slogan of
• 50:24
  agency owners that I hear all the time, which is like, no one
• 50:27
  can do it the way I do it. Yeah.
• 50:29
  And I see people all the time who, like, basically refuse to
• 50:34
  let go. So like, even if it's something
• 50:36
  simple, like someone edits a carousel, like, but no one edits
• 50:39
  the way I edit, Right. Yeah.
• 50:40
  So I'm curious, like for you, did you ever have that, that
• 50:45
  resistance of kind of like, oh, but like I'm scared like if I
• 50:48
  give my clients to so and so, what if they don't do it as well
• 50:51
  as I do? What if the clients are not
• 50:53
  supported? What if they get the outcome
• 50:55
  that I get? Like, did you ever have that
• 50:57
  fear? And I guess if you did, what
• 51:00
  were some of the things that you set up or that you worked on or
• 51:02
  created that you feel were supportive and giving you what
• 51:05
  you needed to effectively let go?
• 51:08
  That's a really good question. And I think that's something
• 51:10
  that is going to be, yeah, a lot of people on a lot of people's
• 51:13
  mind. And for me, one was I could not
• 51:17
  keep having that narrative in my head if I wanted to go where I
• 51:20
  wanted to go. And how do I know that the way I
• 51:22
  do it is the best way? Like, really, how do you know
• 51:24
  that that's the best way? True.
• 51:26
  Who told you that? Nobody.
• 51:28
  I mean, you're pretty great, but.
• 51:29
  Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like, how do you know that it's
• 51:31
  the only good way to do it, right?
• 51:32
  Like there's so many different ways to to do certain things.
• 51:35
  And so for me, I had to shift my mindset that like, if it could
• 51:40
  be 80% of how I would do it, that's good.
• 51:43
  And let us build on that together and make it a a thing
• 51:47
  that we do together. Like me and that team member,
• 51:49
  right? Like I, I had to realize that
• 51:51
  like, it can no longer be like, this is my way, this is my way.
• 51:54
  It had to be, this is our way. And so by letting the team
• 51:58
  member in on how I did it and allowing for them to give their
• 52:01
  input, it became something that was more of an hour thing.
• 52:03
  And so I, that allowed me to kind of detach myself from like,
• 52:06
  this is my way of doing things. This is how it should be.
• 52:08
  And so it was a lot of mindset stuff, to be honest with you of
• 52:10
  just realizing that like, yes, no one's going to do it exactly
• 52:13
  how you are, but what if they can do it better And like be OK
• 52:16
  with that? That's, that's truly what you
• 52:18
  wanted. And I've talked to you about
• 52:19
  this too. Like it's so crazy sometimes I'm
• 52:22
  like, the clients could care less if I'm there anymore.
• 52:25
  And it's a crazy thing to say out loud, but it's truly what
• 52:28
  you wanted. You wanted your clients to trust
• 52:31
  your team and now you're there. So like.
• 52:35
  But I do think agency owners and all business owners frankly
• 52:38
  struggle with that because you're like, the whole idea is
• 52:40
  like, I wish these clients wouldn't need me to do this.
• 52:42
  Then you get. There and then you're like,
• 52:44
  what's happening? And then you're like, please
• 52:45
  need me because you didn't realize it wasn't conscious.
• 52:49
  But like you get validation from your clients, right?
• 52:52
  Like when someone needs you, it's like when someone's like
• 52:54
  needed by their kids, right? And then their kids like leave
• 52:57
  the nest. You're like, I have no purpose.
• 52:58
  Like it's the same kind of idea. It's, it's when your clients
• 53:03
  need you and when they're so go in it with you, you're really
• 53:06
  ultimately getting like your own self fulfilled from it as well,
• 53:10
  right. And then when you delegate, I, I
• 53:11
  often find people go back to this place of like, well, what
• 53:14
  the hell am I supposed to do now?
• 53:15
  Because like, I used to be in the weeds of this, this, this,
• 53:18
  and your role shifts so much. And I know that like you were
• 53:21
  noting earlier, this is a massive part of your development
• 53:23
  has been like you went from a doer and like in client
• 53:26
  communication and all those things to be like, OK, that's
• 53:29
  not my role anymore. And now I'm leader and manager.
• 53:31
  So this is interesting because it's a whole new different
• 53:34
  identity and operating system in the business.
• 53:37
  And even though it's like same business, different size, your,
• 53:40
  your role shifted so much. So like when you had to shift
• 53:43
  into that aspect of like really not being as client interfacing
• 53:46
  and not, you know, necessarily being in the weeds anymore.
• 53:49
  Did you ever have that where you're kind of like, like, did
• 53:51
  you ever like? Meet a big address.
• 53:52
  Like a drop where you weren't as activated.
• 53:55
  Oh, yeah, sometimes I'm like creeping in on projects, like,
• 53:57
  you need me, you need me or what?
• 53:59
  But like, it's like, no, leave me the fuck alone, you know?
• 54:02
  Like, you know, our team, the team is really good at checking
• 54:04
  me. I will say that.
• 54:05
  They're like popping in. Yeah.
• 54:07
  They're like, can you get out? Like you're not needed, you
• 54:09
  know, And like, don't get me wrong.
• 54:10
  Like when I'm needed, like they'll let me know and like,
• 54:13
  I'll be quick to jump in there. But I think it's a beautiful
• 54:16
  thing when the team can like, really just, like, own it.
• 54:18
  And it's something to be proud of, honestly.
• 54:20
  And so again, just kind of shifting my perspective of like,
• 54:23
  this is literally what you've worked years on, on building and
• 54:26
  like cultivating with your team and it's here and you're going
• 54:28
  to complain. Like no, like just just
• 54:30
  recognize that it's you did it, you know what I mean?
• 54:34
  Like you did that together with your team members and they are
• 54:37
  doing it so well and so proudly. And like, that is what that's
• 54:40
  what you could have just asked for, you know?
• 54:42
  So I think it's really just shifting your perspective of I'm
• 54:45
  not needed to like, no, like you've just built a badass team
• 54:48
  that like can really represent you and your company so well.
• 54:52
  And that's really, really hard to find these days.
• 54:54
  And so I think for me, that's where I really like just to get
• 54:56
  that recognition. I give that recognition to the
• 54:59
  team and really just like instead be proud versus like
• 55:02
  sad, no. Here's a follow up I have to
• 55:04
  That is like, you're proud of them.
• 55:05
  Yeah. You know their qualities.
• 55:06
  You know their abilities. Yeah.
• 55:08
  And you're like, I don't know why the hypothetical.
• 55:11
  I always uses Sarah, so if I ever have a client there, I'm
• 55:12
  gonna have to switch it up. But if Sarah is your team member
• 55:16
  and you're like, you're gonna go on so and so's account and
• 55:19
  you're like, I know as the CEO she's going to crush it.
• 55:22
  But my client is not convinced. She's like, no, no, no, I want
• 55:27
  the CEO. I want to work with you.
• 55:28
  Because again, you're the one selling them, right?
• 55:30
  So there's this disconnect between like, they see you in
• 55:32
  the marketing, they see you in the sales process, and you're
• 55:34
  like, great, meet Sarah. How do you transfer the trust
• 55:40
  from you and your team member to the client and the team member?
• 55:44
  Well, I think as like the, you know, the face or like the main
• 55:48
  point person, if you want to label it, that I really speak
• 55:51
  highly about my team and really, you know, educate the client
• 55:55
  that like, I don't hire people on my team that I wouldn't trust
• 55:58
  in my life, you know. And so I think that's a very
• 56:00
  important thing as well as like that introduction from that team
• 56:03
  member to the client of like really, you know, showcasing
• 56:06
  that you've done the training. And obviously, like I said, you
• 56:08
  wouldn't have hired someone on the team that you didn't fully.
• 56:10
  We trust. It definitely takes time for
• 56:12
  sure. It's a transition period as
• 56:14
  well. Like you can't just expect to
• 56:15
  just flip a switch and they're like, Oh yeah, I trust her, you
• 56:17
  know, So like that takes time too.
• 56:19
  But I think it's just really allowing for that transition
• 56:22
  period and then just really like helping the client understand
• 56:25
  the steps that you took to make sure that nothing, nothing feels
• 56:29
  any different, even though it's a different person kind of
• 56:31
  taking care of the responsibility I think is a big
• 56:33
  one. So I think that's a huge one
• 56:36
  that we've done in in examples of that.
• 56:38
  And I'm trying to think of what else we've done but.
• 56:40
  I think also like what I've seen with your agency and like, like
• 56:43
  for me, obviously, yes, coaching, like I know a lot of
• 56:45
  your team, but like also like your team knows all your
• 56:48
  clients, like everyone knows everybody.
• 56:50
  Yeah. And I think what's also really
• 56:52
  helped is like even like testimonials will be like, I
• 56:55
  loved working with Ella, right, Or like I loved working with
• 56:58
  Janae. Like they're mentioning the team
• 56:59
  members as part of the experience.
• 57:02
  Yeah, because they're recognizing them just just as
• 57:05
  much of a massive part, sometimes even, I would say
• 57:08
  probably more than you. Yeah, yeah.
• 57:10
  Right. And then putting that in the
• 57:11
  marketing makes other people have this understanding of like,
• 57:14
  OK, like they're not only working with Gabs, they're
• 57:16
  working with other people. So I think also like you guys do
• 57:19
  a good job of that by showcasing, for example, like
• 57:22
  your team taking content and putting that on your page and
• 57:25
  like your team being shouted out in the testimonials, like your
• 57:28
  audience in the marketing as well as getting primed for even
• 57:31
  coming into the sales process, which I think you guys do a
• 57:32
  really good job of is like showcasing like there is
• 57:35
  multiple people who will have their hands in it.
• 57:38
  And I think which again is, is different than some agencies.
• 57:41
  Some agencies, you know, there's people behind the curtain.
• 57:43
  But you, never you. Have no idea who they are and so
• 57:46
  I I actually quite like again back to the personalization
• 57:49
  which you guys crush and knock out of the park is like when
• 57:51
  someone's working on your account.
• 57:53
  They're not like this weird bot behind the screen that you have
• 57:55
  no idea who they are. Like you have a face to put to
• 57:58
  the name and you can message them privately if you need to.
• 58:00
  Like they're in your account and you're to the handoff portion.
• 58:04
  You noted the handoff is easier because it's so personalized and
• 58:09
  like you're really seeing you in it with them and like you're
• 58:11
  overseeing all the accounts. So it makes your clients, again,
• 58:14
  like me being one of your clients, feel a lot of trust.
• 58:17
  Yeah. In the fact of like, it's so
• 58:19
  personalized. It's so customized.
• 58:21
  And like, you know, when someone hires you guys, like everyone's
• 58:24
  been briefed on what's going on with you.
• 58:26
  I can only imagine the things they say about us because it's
• 58:30
  like, oh, my God, Kate. But there's just like so many
• 58:32
  things that I know for sure your team is briefed on, which is
• 58:34
  massive. And I want to kind of switch
• 58:37
  gears for just the last little bit here.
• 58:39
  And this is probably going to be something that wouldn't
• 58:41
  typically necessarily be something you talk about all the
• 58:44
  time in social content, which is mindset.
• 58:46
  Because obviously in growing the business so fast, you've had to
• 58:51
  grow so fast. And so like, if you think about
• 58:54
  like day one, like Gab's freelancer sitting 16 hour days,
• 58:59
  and you think about yourself now, what were some of the
• 59:02
  beliefs you had to break in order to become the person that
• 59:06
  you are? I'm going to like say, I'm just
• 59:10
  going to say however it comes out because I don't know if
• 59:12
  there's a specific belief or anything, right?
• 59:15
  But I, yeah, you are right. That like mindset was a huge one
• 59:18
  for me. And I think it was just
• 59:20
  understanding like it's a we thing.
• 59:21
  It's no longer like an I thing. That was a big one that I had to
• 59:25
  like repeatedly say to myself, it's like a wee, wee, wee.
• 59:28
  And that meant taking care of us, like taking care of everyone
• 59:31
  and not just for myself. And so I think, you know, if I
• 59:35
  were to list stuff like mindset shifts that I had to do is like
• 59:37
  things were no longer about what I wanted.
• 59:40
  And I say that with to a certain extent because I get that it's
• 59:42
  still my business, but I'm very much thinking of like the bigger
• 59:45
  picture now as well. And I do think that the other
• 59:48
  mindset shift to that as well is like, I need to take care of the
• 59:52
  people that are taking care of me now.
• 59:53
  You know, like, I think people kind of discredit their team a
• 59:56
  little bit where they don't realize that without your team,
• 59:59
  like you wouldn't have what you have.
• 1:00:01
  And so I think it's very important that I had shifted my
• 1:00:03
  mindset that like, it's very important that I pour into this
• 1:00:05
  team culture. And that's why team culture is
• 1:00:07
  like such a huge thing for me is because I understand, like in
• 1:00:10
  order to have our team happy to show up every day, do what they
• 1:00:13
  do, they need to be excited and happy to show up where they have
• 1:00:16
  to show up every day for, for myself, for the agency, for our
• 1:00:19
  clients. And so I think that was another
• 1:00:21
  one. I think if I were to think of
• 1:00:22
  the old me to new me, it's like also just the level of trust
• 1:00:26
  that you need to have in yourself and in the people that
• 1:00:29
  you're going to hire and have behind your company is very,
• 1:00:31
  very big. And you have to just kind of let
• 1:00:33
  that in a little bit more. As a question though, how do you
• 1:00:35
  trust yourself differently? How do I trust myself
• 1:00:39
  differently? I That's a hard one.
• 1:00:44
  How do I trust myself? It's so gabs of you because I'm
• 1:00:46
  like, what's the mindset shifts that you had and your instant
• 1:00:49
  was your team. So like, what about yourself
• 1:00:52
  though? I think like I.
• 1:00:56
  Which also, by the way, is such a testament to who you are as a
• 1:00:58
  person and the values that you hold, which is why I love you to
• 1:01:00
  pieces. I'm just really getting to the
• 1:01:02
  rock. Bottom Yeah, truly, truly.
• 1:01:03
  How do I trust myself differently?
• 1:01:07
  I think, and again, I don't know who's going to answer it like
• 1:01:10
  point blank, but I just know what I'm capable of and I know
• 1:01:14
  that anything that I put my like 150% in, like it will happen in
• 1:01:19
  whatever way that has to happen. And I think that I just, I let
• 1:01:24
  whatever is going to happen, just happen and I will figure
• 1:01:26
  out the solution to that. So just knowing that like I will
• 1:01:29
  find a solution always and I will always understand the
• 1:01:33
  different seasons that I go through in life and business and
• 1:01:35
  I I'll get through it. I'll get through that money,
• 1:01:37
  water and that like be ready for the challenges too.
• 1:01:40
  Like I'm also very realistic with that.
• 1:01:42
  Is that like, I know that not everything's going to be like
• 1:01:44
  sunshine and rainbows going to where I want to go.
• 1:01:47
  So just like being prepared for that too.
• 1:01:49
  And like there's always a way, always, always a way to do
• 1:01:53
  things. However that's going to be.
• 1:01:55
  So those are some, some things that I I in my head think is
• 1:01:59
  like a way that I trust myself a little bit differently.
• 1:02:02
  Yeah. What about in those seasons?
• 1:02:04
  Like when you had those seasons in the roller coaster is all on
• 1:02:07
  for a zoo. Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  When you have that season where you're like, oh, man, here we
• 1:02:11
  go. Like in those moments, what do
• 1:02:15
  you feel was like, kind of like the foundation or the base that
• 1:02:18
  got you to that next, like, peak that you ended up getting to?
• 1:02:22
  What sustained you in that? It was just something that I
• 1:02:25
  had. I had to go through that.
• 1:02:27
  I have to go through this in order to get to that next level.
• 1:02:31
  I need to go through the this up and the down in order to even be
• 1:02:35
  qualified to get to that next stepping stone that I want.
• 1:02:38
  I think everyone wants to get to that level 5 before going
• 1:02:40
  through all the other levels, but it's like it's kind of just
• 1:02:42
  needed. It sucks 100%.
• 1:02:44
  Like I had so many times where I was like, can I do this?
• 1:02:48
  But it's you just, you just have to embrace that.
• 1:02:52
  It's literally part of that journey and it's going to make
• 1:02:55
  you stronger and better so that you can then give that to your
• 1:02:58
  team, give that to your clients. But I think that's a big one is
• 1:03:01
  that like you need to understand like that's just something that
• 1:03:03
  you have to go through in order to get to that next stepping
• 1:03:05
  stone. Because without it, how are you
• 1:03:07
  going to learn? How are you going to have
• 1:03:09
  experienced it if you literally don't experience it?
• 1:03:12
  And just like adjusting wherever you can to like allow yourself
• 1:03:16
  to go through that too. I think that's the beauty in
• 1:03:18
  owning our own businesses as well as that we can adjust
• 1:03:20
  however we need to. So just knowing that that's
• 1:03:22
  there. But yeah, I mean, truly it was
• 1:03:25
  just you just, and it's different having a team when you
• 1:03:29
  go through things like that. It's a lot more pressure, I'm
• 1:03:31
  not going to lie. It's a lot more responsibility,
• 1:03:34
  but it truly drives me a lot more than it did when I was just
• 1:03:37
  by myself, which is so crazy that like when I was so low, I
• 1:03:40
  definitely didn't have the drive that I have that I do today.
• 1:03:43
  So I do think that's another layer to it as well, is that
• 1:03:45
  like it is such an honor to have this responsibility of having a
• 1:03:48
  team and the clients that we do because obviously we were able
• 1:03:51
  to add more clients to that. But like it's also one of the
• 1:03:53
  scariest things that I also have as well.
• 1:03:56
  It's, it's a weird, it's a weird thing.
• 1:03:58
  It's like one of the greatest things, but it's also one of the
• 1:03:59
  like scariest things. So I think that's something to
• 1:04:02
  think of as well. But it is like I said, it is the
• 1:04:04
  greatest motivator I've ever had.
• 1:04:06
  Well, like how do you obviously, as you said, like adding more
• 1:04:09
  clients needs more capacity. Yeah, like obviously there's
• 1:04:12
  logistical capacity of like team being able to do it, systems
• 1:04:15
  being able to do it for sure. But also like for you thinking
• 1:04:19
  about having more team members, thinking about doubling your
• 1:04:21
  business from where it is today and like how fast your business
• 1:04:24
  has already grown, like what do you do to open up your mental
• 1:04:29
  capacity to even call in that growth?
• 1:04:32
  These are such good questions. Thanks dude.
• 1:04:34
  Like what? What is happening to SO?
• 1:04:38
  Because I know you don't typically talk mindset.
• 1:04:40
  So guys, I get like 30 seconds here and then after that I'm not
• 1:04:42
  going to be able to talk mindset with her again.
• 1:04:45
  To call in that mindset. Because you know, like they
• 1:04:48
  always say like, you know, you have to basically like you're
• 1:04:50
  the lid of your business. And so I think, you know, as you
• 1:04:54
  were noting earlier, there was this aspect of going from like
• 1:04:56
  the I to the we. And now you're like, OK, like
• 1:04:58
  it's not about me. It's about the team.
• 1:05:00
  It's not about just what I want to offer as a service.
• 1:05:02
  It's about what the market needs.
• 1:05:04
  And now you're at this place where you have this very
• 1:05:06
  successful agency and you've got clients that love you and you've
• 1:05:09
  got renewals and referrals coming out the wazoo.
• 1:05:11
  And like everything is really all systems go.
• 1:05:12
  Like there's really not massive fires, which is what all of us
• 1:05:16
  want, right? But when we think about like
• 1:05:19
  where you are now and if you were to say to like double your
• 1:05:21
  business, what do you typically feel like you work on or you're
• 1:05:26
  constantly paying attention to to make sure that you are not
• 1:05:29
  the cap of your business? I think it's how can I pour into
• 1:05:32
  myself and also pour into the rest of the team so that they
• 1:05:35
  can grow with me. I think that's a big one too, is
• 1:05:37
  like they need to be able to grow too alongside you.
• 1:05:39
  It's not just about me, right? So I think being able to give
• 1:05:43
  them resources and space to professionally develop on their
• 1:05:46
  end as well, while I'm also developing my own of like, how
• 1:05:49
  can I continue to support them? Because honestly, my main role
• 1:05:51
  now is leadership and management, like you said.
• 1:05:53
  And that means supporting my team members so that they can
• 1:05:56
  continue to grow and excel in their own ways too.
• 1:05:59
  And like also thinking about like where they want to be
• 1:06:01
  personally and professionally, where I want to be personally
• 1:06:03
  and professionally. Like those are all things that
• 1:06:04
  now are things that I have to consider and, you know, are my
• 1:06:10
  ways of finding what I need in order to make that space for
• 1:06:13
  that. And so I think that's a very
• 1:06:15
  important thing too, is just like, yeah, figuring out how do
• 1:06:18
  you leverage the team that you have right now in order to get
• 1:06:21
  there? What are things that we're going
• 1:06:22
  to have to shift and change if I don't want to hire more people?
• 1:06:25
  Because that's another thing too, is I definitely want to say
• 1:06:27
  boutique style is what I call it.
• 1:06:29
  So there's going to be some shifts that are going to have to
• 1:06:30
  happen too. So I think just knowing that
• 1:06:34
  it'll never be a done thing or like a standardized way of doing
• 1:06:38
  things as a team, that's always going to change as I want to get
• 1:06:42
  to that next spot. And so I think because I already
• 1:06:44
  know that's going to happen and I'm like very much expecting it.
• 1:06:46
  That's kind of how I'm able to like, as you would say, I think
• 1:06:50
  you always say the word surrender, but like, that's why
• 1:06:52
  I kind of surrender to the idea that like, it might not always
• 1:06:55
  be like this. Like we might change again in
• 1:06:56
  six months. You never know, right?
• 1:06:58
  But I think because I am so open minded on that, like that's what
• 1:07:01
  kind of allows me to like not feel a certain way when
• 1:07:03
  something hits me, you know, and it's like, OK, time to shift, to
• 1:07:07
  get in time to change something or whatever.
• 1:07:08
  Like I feel like that's kind of what allows me to do that.
• 1:07:11
  But truly, again, it's just like I'm always thinking of like, OK,
• 1:07:14
  how do I continue to to pour into my support pillars, which
• 1:07:17
  is the team? Yeah.
• 1:07:18
  So that we're in this together because I think that's the
• 1:07:21
  biggest part where agency owners kind of fall a little bit is
• 1:07:25
  that they're so concerned about them moving up.
• 1:07:27
  What about the rest of your team?
• 1:07:30
  You know, and I think that's probably the biggest, biggest
• 1:07:32
  thing to to kind of emphasize is that you can't just be about you
• 1:07:37
  scaling up. It's about the entire team
• 1:07:39
  together. So actually now that now that
• 1:07:41
  we've talked through this, that's what's kind of coming for
• 1:07:44
  me is that like I constantly want to pour into them.
• 1:07:47
  And I think that's the biggest. There's also like this theme of
• 1:07:51
  what you're saying too, of like this aspect of like anticipation
• 1:07:54
  and expectation, which is like you expect it to be hard, you
• 1:07:58
  expect problems to come up, you expect fires on their way.
• 1:08:01
  And it's just something I really want to reiterate and pay
• 1:08:04
  attention to because I think there's so many business owners,
• 1:08:07
  not even agency owners and specifically, but any business
• 1:08:10
  owner that both of us, you know, coach and consult with, there's
• 1:08:12
  this like shock and awe when something happens.
• 1:08:15
  They're like, Oh my God, like there's a fire, there's a
• 1:08:17
  problem, there's a resistance. This is a low season.
• 1:08:19
  And I'm like, welcome to the party, right?
• 1:08:21
  Like it's really something that changes the experience of how
• 1:08:25
  you go through it. When you have a perspective of
• 1:08:27
  the fact that this is coming, it's just a matter of when,
• 1:08:30
  right? And so I think like even when
• 1:08:32
  you're talking about like I prepare myself for the seasons
• 1:08:34
  and I, I recognize like there's new levels all the time and like
• 1:08:37
  new problems we have to solve in ways we're gonna adapt and like
• 1:08:40
  we're gonna change probably at some point next six months.
• 1:08:42
  Don't know what it is yet, but like something's gonna happen.
• 1:08:45
  Having that expectation I think also is huge because what it
• 1:08:49
  does is when you as the leader have that clarity, that clarity
• 1:08:52
  passes along to the team. Yeah.
• 1:08:54
  So when change happens in your team, you're like, hey, we're
• 1:08:56
  getting more clarity in our values and we're getting more
• 1:08:58
  clarity of how we operate in the offers we're going to have and
• 1:09:00
  where we're going as a business. They're not shocked.
• 1:09:03
  They're not kind of like, oh, worried about this because we
• 1:09:06
  haven't had change in a while. Like when you're constantly
• 1:09:08
  priming your team, hey, change all the time.
• 1:09:10
  Yeah. It basically means that they're
• 1:09:12
  primed when it comes, so they're not thrown off as well.
• 1:09:14
  Because I think sometimes there's leaders or owners who
• 1:09:18
  are trying to reduce change for the team where really your
• 1:09:22
  perspective is no, no change. Is comfortable, Yeah.
• 1:09:24
  Never get comfortable. It's a comment, it's just a
• 1:09:27
  matter of what never. Never get comfortable.
• 1:09:29
  So the last question just so we can close off, cuz I know that I
• 1:09:32
  literally am the kind of person who would do a four hour podcast
• 1:09:34
  if I could. If someone's listening to this
• 1:09:37
  and they feel like they're an agency right now, they're ready
• 1:09:41
  to tap into the next level, you know, they they've maybe started
• 1:09:44
  to hire a couple people and they're really like going for
• 1:09:46
  that next stage. If you were to be like, hey, I'm
• 1:09:50
  like the old wise ancestor over here with my little bonnet.
• 1:09:53
  You guys have C gas and her bonnet.
• 1:09:54
  She's so cute, but so cute. But if you're giving them advice
• 1:09:59
  of something that you would hold to be true, a belief they might
• 1:10:03
  have or a principle that they might integrate, what would be
• 1:10:05
  your advice to someone who knows that they have potential that
• 1:10:08
  they're not tapping into? Right right now and how to
• 1:10:10
  really unlock that. Really stick to your own core
• 1:10:15
  values as a human, as an individual, like don't make it
• 1:10:18
  so much about what's the businesses core values and in
• 1:10:20
  mission, it's more so like what who are you?
• 1:10:23
  And stick to that and have that like kind of like exude into
• 1:10:26
  into that thereafter, I think too is like you just never know.
• 1:10:30
  You never know what could happen.
• 1:10:32
  So like, why not is my biggest thing and really, really show
• 1:10:36
  gratitude to those who help you get to where you are.
• 1:10:40
  I think that's some of the biggest ones.
• 1:10:41
  And that can be applied in whatever way that you want to
• 1:10:43
  translate that. But I think it's very gratitude
• 1:10:47
  was a very, very long way. And giving in to those who help
• 1:10:51
  you get to where you are is going to get you a really long
• 1:10:53
  way too. So I think that's a really big
• 1:10:55
  thing is that like, you know, for us to get to where we want
• 1:10:57
  to go, wherever that is, we obviously can't do it alone.
• 1:11:01
  So really make sure that you're recognizing that everyone plays
• 1:11:06
  a role in in your success and where you're going to go.
• 1:11:08
  And just never forget that Always like humble yourself on
• 1:11:11
  that I think is a big one because, yeah, truly all the
• 1:11:13
  things that people want just can't happen by yourself.
• 1:11:17
  So I think that's a really a really big one to kind of just
• 1:11:19
  like really like hit you a little bit.
• 1:11:22
  Is that like, yeah, that you're so much better when you can, it
• 1:11:26
  can really pour into the other people that help you get there.
• 1:11:29
  And then I think the last thing is like, just truly like, yeah,
• 1:11:32
  be welcoming of whatever comes your way because it, I, I,
• 1:11:37
  there's nothing that I regret. There's nothing that I wish
• 1:11:40
  could have been differently because had I not gone through
• 1:11:44
  the UPS and the downs of it, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have
• 1:11:47
  learned what I've learned. I wouldn't have experienced
• 1:11:49
  whatever I experienced because every single thing that I've
• 1:11:51
  been through is now an experience under my belt that
• 1:11:53
  I've been able to translate in so many different ways in many
• 1:11:56
  different scenarios. And I think that's why every
• 1:11:58
  single month, every single year, I become so different in the way
• 1:12:03
  I handle things because that's another thing when you know,
• 1:12:05
  when you're scaling your business is like you're going to
• 1:12:07
  be throwing so many different levels of things.
• 1:12:09
  And I think that, yeah, had I not had all that experience,
• 1:12:12
  like I wouldn't have been able to handle it the way that I do
• 1:12:15
  today. And so I think that's like a
• 1:12:17
  really big thing to just kind of lean into a lot well.
• 1:12:20
  Like the, the, the resistance is like the training of like your
• 1:12:23
  toughness for the next level, right?
• 1:12:25
  Like people are like, I want to have all the tools to be
• 1:12:27
  equipped for the next stage of growth, but I don't want to
• 1:12:28
  experience any resistance. Right.
• 1:12:30
  Like how are you going to do that?
• 1:12:31
  It's part of the process. And I, I love what you said
• 1:12:34
  because I think like something that when I get like really in
• 1:12:37
  my feels about whatever is happening, I recognize that
• 1:12:40
  like, I used to be a server who would just die to have an
• 1:12:44
  inbound inquiry. And so then when I think about
• 1:12:47
  like, oh, like I need more or I need to have more money or I
• 1:12:50
  need to have more sales or whatever.
• 1:12:52
  The thing is, I'm looking to have more of when it comes to
• 1:12:54
  growth, which all of us have. I think it's also really good to
• 1:12:57
  your point of gratitude, like Rudin, as well as to like,
• 1:13:00
  thinking about the old you. Like, think about freelancer,
• 1:13:02
  you who was like 16 hours a day and probably sitting in like a
• 1:13:07
  cozy onesie with like a coffee, just eyes burning, going and
• 1:13:11
  going and going. Yeah, would be like, so
• 1:13:14
  profoundly proud of all the stuff that you've done and be
• 1:13:16
  like, holy crap. We did what?
• 1:13:18
  We have eight team members. Yeah, right.
• 1:13:20
  Or we have clients who were working with us for how long?
• 1:13:22
  And I think that's something we talk about is like we don't take
• 1:13:24
  a lot of time to just appreciate how far we've come.
• 1:13:26
  Yeah, we always see how far we have to go, but we don't
• 1:13:30
  appreciate how far we've come. And I think that's a very
• 1:13:32
  important thing is to just appreciate everything that's
• 1:13:36
  coming your way and everything that you've been through because
• 1:13:38
  like, that's truly what you wanted a few years ago.
• 1:13:41
  You just forget because it's been so long and like, you just
• 1:13:43
  got to get to where you are today.
• 1:13:45
  Like it's been such a crazy journey that you just forget,
• 1:13:48
  like all the things that were in between and like what you did
• 1:13:50
  want at the time. And so instead of, yeah, seeing
• 1:13:52
  them as like a negative or like a daunting thing, like really
• 1:13:55
  just appreciate that. Like you actually wanted this
• 1:13:57
  problem at one point. You just don't know it, you
• 1:13:59
  know, like it's something that you actually wanted and just,
• 1:14:02
  yeah, like I enjoyed it in a weird way to say, but like,
• 1:14:05
  enjoy it and really just like be present with it and like, really
• 1:14:08
  just like sync it. Like, let it sink in.
• 1:14:11
  Well, I think it's also like, if it's not enough now, like truly
• 1:14:15
  not just like, Oh yeah, like I love my business.
• 1:14:17
  No, no, like if it's actually like not enough in this moment
• 1:14:19
  for your business, there really is no point in growing it bigger
• 1:14:23
  because it's never going to be enough.
• 1:14:25
  Yeah. Like if a 10K month is not
• 1:14:26
  enough, then A20K month is not going to be enough.
• 1:14:28
  Then A30K month is not going to be enough.
• 1:14:29
  So like you can have desire for more, but it has to be paired
• 1:14:34
  this aspect of like, wow, I'm like so proud of where I am, so
• 1:14:37
  proud of what I've created and like what I have available to me
• 1:14:40
  in this moment. And even if that is for some
• 1:14:43
  people, like 2 clients and for other people it's 25 clients.
• 1:14:45
  Like I, I do think it's a massive piece for people scaling
• 1:14:49
  because otherwise it can constantly feel, especially in
• 1:14:52
  the online world of like everyone's just like new massive
• 1:14:55
  milestone every Thursday. And you see that in marketing,
• 1:14:58
  you can feel so alone in the fact that you're like, oh, OK,
• 1:15:01
  Like I don't know if I'm crushing it the way I perceive
• 1:15:05
  other people to be. And obviously, both you and I
• 1:15:07
  know behind the curtains of businesses.
• 1:15:08
  So it's not always what it seems to be.
• 1:15:10
  But I think it's a massive piece of being able to just accept and
• 1:15:12
  be excited about where you are. And to your point, like, welcome
• 1:15:16
  the fact that you wanted these problems, You wanted these
• 1:15:19
  realities that you have today. And so like, appreciating those,
• 1:15:22
  but then also stepping into like, what can I do to kind of
• 1:15:25
  embrace the next stage where we're going?
• 1:15:26
  Yeah, these opportunities, these problems are new opportunities
• 1:15:29
  is how I like to see every problem that comes my way, you
• 1:15:32
  know, and you've definitely witnessed me take on some
• 1:15:33
  problems. Like it's an opportunity for us
• 1:15:35
  to all learn to collaborate to whatever.
• 1:15:37
  Yeah. And I think that the last note
• 1:15:39
  that I wanted to add to what you just said was that you need to
• 1:15:42
  figure out what does, what does success look like to you?
• 1:15:45
  And like, what is your driver? What is your why?
• 1:15:48
  I'm a big fan of the why. I'm sure you've heard me say
• 1:15:50
  that many times in today's podcast, but like truly like
• 1:15:53
  what is a marker of success for you and for me?
• 1:15:57
  It's not the revenue. It's not, it's not like, you
• 1:16:00
  know, all those, those kind of milestones for me.
• 1:16:02
  And for me, it's just like having the team happy to be
• 1:16:04
  here, truly. Like that's the one thing that
• 1:16:05
  really keeps me going every single day is that like I've
• 1:16:08
  cultivated something like that. And so I think when you can find
• 1:16:10
  those indicators for yourself, it allows you to not be so
• 1:16:13
  caught up in in that as well. So I think it's a very important
• 1:16:16
  thing too. And just also longevity wise in
• 1:16:18
  this business is making sure that you are doing this for
• 1:16:22
  other reasons that aren't going to be dependent on a transaction
• 1:16:26
  or anything like that because truly own your own businesses.
• 1:16:30
  You've got to be motivated by more than that in order to stay
• 1:16:33
  around for a long time. So agree.
• 1:16:35
  So agree. Well, thank you because today
• 1:16:38
  was so good. It was.
• 1:16:40
  Different. I loved it.
• 1:16:40
  We. Got to go on the other side of
• 1:16:42
  the business, yeah. If you guys haven't gone back to
• 1:16:44
  Gab's other episode, she dives into all the influencer side was
• 1:16:46
  actually a very interesting conversation.
• 1:16:48
  It was super eye opening for me around like brand deals,
• 1:16:51
  understanding how to build a personal brand, what to expect
• 1:16:54
  and all of that stuff. So if you're interested in that,
• 1:16:56
  there is another episode if you go back through the archives
• 1:16:58
  that you can dive into the influencer side.
• 1:17:00
  And then obviously the agency side is the other leg of her
• 1:17:03
  business. So thank you so much for diving
• 1:17:05
  into everything today. Thank you for asking.
• 1:17:07
  Some challenging questions. Of course, might make it easy on
• 1:17:10
  you. I was like, how can I really
• 1:17:12
  throw a curveball at her that she's not expecting?
• 1:17:14
  It was like mindset. Good question for you guys to
• 1:17:16
  ask yourselves too. Okay, so we're in this together.
• 1:17:18
  In this together. It's an US thing.
• 1:17:21
  Coaching. This is a wee thing.
• 1:17:22
  It's an US thing. I think this is a wee thing.
• 1:17:25
  So obviously we will have Gabs's social and all her info.
• 1:17:28
  LinkedIn, the show notes below. So if you guys want to go
• 1:17:30
  connect with her, you can go reach out on Instagram at both
• 1:17:32
  her business page and her personal page.
• 1:17:34
  But all of that to say, you guys, we will see you on next
• 1:17:37
  week's episode. And as always, stay ambitious.