Latest / Full Spectrum Cycling / Full Spectrum Cycling #49 – Winter Camping Report and Complete Streets With Dave Schlabowske

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Full Spectrum Cycling #49 – Winter Camping Report and Complete Streets With Dave Schlabowske · Full Spectrum Cycling

0:00
[upbeat music] Did you push the button? I pushed the button. You're really pushing my buttons. Welcome, welcome.
0:18
Yes, indeed, the button has been pushed. [laughs] This just means you get to hear our dulcet tones in their actual real, not squished down recording style. Good evening, listeners.
0:31
Welcome to Full Spectrum Cycling number 49 here at the- 49... Everyday Cycle Studio in beautiful Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Well, got JK to my right. Oh, hoy. Uh, Dave Sobalski's joining us today in the studio here. I'm back.
0:46
He's back. And Tony, of course. And of course. Newly full-time working Tony. Yeah. [laughs] Oh, boy. It can't be a yeah already, can it? It's brutal. Oh, boy. Holy shit, it's a lot more than I was expecting.
1:02
That's why you're getting the big bucks. Yep. [laughs] Whatever you say. All right then. Well, um, what the heck's going on out there? Well, I just got back from, uh, Wisconsin's, uh, great snowy Northwoods.
1:15
I spent a week camping up at, uh, Roam Adventure Base Camp in Seeley, and, uh, um, rode the fat bikes trails there, the CAMBA groomed fat bike trails.
1:26
And then I went over to Windman Trails by, uh, um, Manitowish Waters in Winchester and rode their groomed trails, and it was... If, if... It's unbelievably dialed up there right now. The deer don't even- Nice...
1:41
the trails are so hard, the deer tracks on 'em don't even sink in. Wow. Wow. So, um, it's fast. I was gonna say, it's gotta be really fast. It's fast and...
1:50
Well, I mean, there's a lot of up and down there, so for an old guy like me, I'm, I'm still not very fast, but, but the trails are fast and, uh, and just gorgeous.
2:00
If you fall off the trails, you're in three feet of powder. So- [laughs] But on the trail- [laughs] On the trail, it's just rock solid. Do, do you know this from, from fact? Did you- Yes.
2:10
[laughs] I, I tipped over once and, uh, and I was... I had my dog up there with me, and then he tried to go off trail once- [laughs]... and quickly found himself, you know, buried- Buried [laughs]... buried in snow.
2:22
[laughs] Postholing all over the place. [laughs] So, um, yeah, the, the trails are just, just amazing. So, um, I was camping at Roam Adventure Base Camp.
2:30
For our listeners that don't know what that is, it's, it's, uh, run by, uh, Mo and Suzanne Montgomery up, up in... It's on Janet Road, just, um, off of 00, um, very close to the Sawmill Saloon. Sure, sure.
2:46
Um, and, uh, um, it's a, a campground, but then they've also got four, um, cabins that are heated and have electricity. Every... There's, um, heated showers, there's a sauna, and there's flush toilets.
3:01
Um, I was in a tent, but, um, but, uh, the, they have those options and it's... They're... You can ski out onto the Birke Trail, and Seeley Pass Trail is right at the end of the driveway. Wow.
3:12
So it's, it's an, an, um- Wow. So you can camp if you want in a tent, but you're n- you always have, like, that support there of like, oh, I can get water. Oh, there's a hot shower.
3:22
I, I'm gonna sit in a sauna 'cause it's, you know, nine below zero outside. Right. Um, and, uh, and it's ski in, bike out, um- That sounds pretty darn fantastic. Yeah.
3:30
[laughs] The, the cabins are all heated with, uh, a wood, um, outdoor boiler, you know? Um- Oh, yeah...
3:36
and then they've got solar arrays, and then they have a diesel generator for backup if case they have, like, long periods of, of clouds and stuff. But it's, it's- Like this winter? Yeah.
3:46
[laughs] And so everything's hydronically heated. It's all... You know, the cabins, like, they sleep six. They're just very Scandinavian designed.
3:52
Yeah, that's what I was gonna- They're very s- Having, having looked at 'em on the site- Yeah, yeah... they look definitely Scandinavian. So yeah, it's, it's a great place to go. It, it's a really great location.
4:01
And then, you know, you've got the sawmill right down the road, so if you don't wanna cook all your meals out or something like that, you're, you're right there. I've eaten there twice in a day before. Yeah, so have I.
4:09
[laughs] And it's, it's almost... It's, like, halfway between Cable and Hayward. Yes. It's pretty much almost- It is, yeah... almost dead center in there.
4:15
The, the Lenert Lodge used to be where I stayed all the time, which is back behind. Right on the- It's the old- Yeah... the old school right behind. It's run by the folks that own...
4:22
Cindy, um, and, uh, Sean at the Sawmill Saloon and, um, that's where I used to always stay. But since Roam opened up, I, I've been there. So I was in a, a hot tent.
4:31
I have a, a titanium goat wood stove, and I have a tent and everything. I was testing gear for winter bikepacking, so... And with my dog, um, who's never gone out in, in a winter bikepacking experience either.
4:46
He runs the trails with me around here all the time, but never spent a week, you know, in, out in the snow, so. I know you probably took some photos up there. I did. I did.
4:55
If you want, I can share, uh- You can share one or two just so people get- And you can put 'em, you can put 'em on your- Or you can link... on the show notes Put 'em in the show notes. Link, yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah.
5:01
Um- I had a very sunny February according to my solar array. Oh, boy. Uh. [laughs] Like, way sunnier than last year in February. Nice. So everything worked out great.
5:10
I mean, the riding was obviously stupendous, and my gear all worked out pretty well. Um, my dog situation is not quite...
5:17
You know, nine below, he's great around here when it's 20 degrees out, but nine below, he was not real comfortable- That'd be-... with that. Yeah, he spent most of his time curled up inside a zero degree sleeping bag.
5:28
[laughs] So what's the tent you're using? I have a very inexpensive Luxe hiking gear, um, teepee tent. Um, and it's got a little titan- I bought a little titanium wood stove. Everything, like, fits on my bike.
5:41
It rolls up incredibly small. The tent isn't super tiny. You know, it's that rule of cycling, right? Uh, you can have two things, you know, light/small, uh, inexpensive or, or big and, and this pick two, right? Right.
5:56
So this is the inexpensive tent. I wanted to try it. Um, so, uh, it worked out great though. I like it. It's just a little bulky to carry around with a zero-degree bag too, which is bulky.
6:07
And so, like, I think what I'm gonna do is I'm going to... I borrowed a buddy's sewing machine. It's my new thing now, and I'm gonna sew a s- Hey, we need some patches sewn on coats. [laughs] Yeah.
6:18
I'm not very good yet, but I'm gonna sew a stove jack in my- [coughs]... um, very packable, very light, hyperlight mountain gear, um, Dyneema, um, tent. Which they don't recommend, because Dyneema melting point of...
6:31
That's Cuban fiber, now called Dyneema, is, is, like, half that of silnylon and Cordura and stuff like that. So they don't really recommend it, but I mean, that stuff melts if a spark hits my regular tent anyway at all.
6:42
It's not flammable, it just melts easier, so- Okay. Sure... I'll just- You can be Dave Lunds wrapped up in your tent by the fire and getting- [laughs]... getting holes poked in it. I'll just be careful.
6:50
So- So you're, you're using a full s- a full bag, right? Not a, like, a, a quilt and a- Yeah... sleeping pad system. I, I have a, a Big Agnes zero-degree bag.
6:59
So they have that FlexPad thing that you can put a pad so you don't- Mm-hmm... slide off. That was the problem with my dog. My dog does not have one of those. [laughs] So, and I woke up the first night we were sleeping.
7:10
Around 3:00 in the morning I heard my dog rustle around inside the tent, and, uh, he had...
7:15
His bag had slid off his, uh, sleeping pad that I brought for him, and he was now in, shivering, melted into a little depression in the snow that we were camping in. [laughs] Oh, poor guy. Oh, wow.
7:28
So I had to warm him up in the truck a little bit after that. But, um, but yeah, so I gotta... If... But I, he didn't really seem to enjoy the sitting around in camp.
7:36
Maybe it was because he couldn't wander around in the woods like normal either though, like, 'cause the snow, it was just walls of snow that he couldn't do anything with. Mm-hmm.
7:43
So not quite sure what, what the deal with him is and winter camping is, but my gear worked great.
7:48
I'm gonna, uh, modify that one tent, and then I think I've got a pretty dialed gear setup for, for doing multi-day trips up there- Sweet. Yeah... in the winter.
7:58
I've got a, an, an old-school zero-degree down bag that, that I know works great. I've just been messing around with the, um, kinda the quilt system, and Big Agnes makes one that's pretty cool- Yeah... because it...
8:10
W- what I always had a problem with previously, like, I'd open my sleeping bag up 'cause I'm so warm- Mm-hmm... and then my feet would be sticking out, and they'd get cold.
8:17
So the, the quilt system has, like, the bottom- Box... two feet has a box for your feet- Right... where it, it, it's, it's cool. It's key. I have an enlightened, Enlightened Equipment, like, 30-degree quilt like that.
8:30
Um, so yeah, I, I like it. Um, and it straps to the bag too so you don't fall off. Right, and- You know?... it, you need to use it with a sleeping pad usually. Right. Right? Yeah. That's what I mean. It's- Yeah...
8:38
it straps to the bag. To the pad. Sorry, yeah. Right. So yeah, I, I like the quilt system, it's just I've had this Big Agnes bag for a while, so I'm like, I g- it's, it's a ni- Hey, um, Big Agnes stuff is good.
8:47
It's nice. Yeah, it's a- Mm-hmm... it's an, you know, it's a two-plus pound zero-degree bag, so that's a pretty light. Do you think when she was a little girl they called her Big Agnes?
8:56
[laughs] I don't know, they make some nice stuff. I, I, I have not used the new Big Ag- Agnes tent enough yet. I have the old, uh, the old Seedhouse from eight years ago or something. That's a nice... That's a...
9:09
I had one of those. I didn't, what I didn't like about it, and why I got the new tent, which is their Copper something or other. Copper Spur. Copper Spur. W- especially with the bikepacking poles, which is really small.
9:17
Oh, you got it with the bikepacking poles? It's right over there. Oh, sweet. We can go look at it. Yeah. So the Seedhouse, you had to climb in the end of it, and I was never a big fan of that. Yeah.
9:24
Plus, it's really small. I could not have a dog in there. I don't, I- Right... am, am allergic to dogs anyway, so I, I wouldn't have one- [laughs]... in there anyhow.
9:30
But you couldn't even have another person in there really. [laughs] Right. And the new Copper Spur- Or you could fit another person in there. Oh, you can...
9:36
Uh, the, they're basically the same size, but the, the new one is twice as big inside. It's just, it- Just has more volume than- Oh, yeah. Yeah.
9:42
And yeah, instead of just barely sitting up with the tent over your head, you can, you can sit up. And it has two really nice vestibules outside, and, uh, and, uh, doors on either side. On either side, yeah.
9:52
And the footprint goes outside into the vestibule, so you're not putting your stuff in dirt and whatnot. Those things have, have been really well- It's dialed. Yeah.
9:59
They've g- they've got their s- their, that system down, and it is an ideal bikepacking tent. I... Winter camping, though, I, I don't use floors in my tents, so they're all just floorless tents.
10:11
Just in general, you don't need one in the winter. You don't need screens for bugs. You don't need any of that.
10:17
Um, and then with my stove, the little wood stove that I have, it, it slowly melts into the ground, um, as it gets hot, so, um, so you wouldn't really want that with a floor in your tent anyway. Right.
10:28
Yeah, that's a good point. [clears throat] My summer tents, though, have floors. I'm a, I am a anti-bug guy, and I don't... I know people do do the tarps and things like that in the summertime. No.
10:39
Man, the bugs are just so bad up north. Yeah. I just- And both of those- Tennessee hammock, man. Um. Yeah. Both of those Big Agnes, you can, you can set 'em up with just the fly and the, and the footprint. Right.
10:48
But I'm like, "Yeah, no, I'm gonna-" Yeah. "I'm gonna keep the bugs out, thanks very much." Yeah. The weight penalty is not that much. Yeah.
10:54
You know, you're talking about a tiny little tent anyway, so why not enjoy a bug-free environment, is my philosophy in the summertime or spring. I- That's- I have that philosophy year-round.
11:04
[laughs] So the, the whole Rome trip, you're, are you still planning on some kind of event type- You know-... of an idea?
11:11
I would, I would really love to have a rendezvous event type of thing where, where a bunch of people come and they winter camp and we sorta look at each other's gear and, and see what you're doing, how you're, how you're doing, how are you making your coffee in the morning, and what, what tent are you using?
11:26
"Oh, do you have a wood stove?" "No, I don't use one." I'd love to do that, but you know, the finding people that want to winter camp is... I think I have to cast a very wide net to do it.
11:37
[laughs] Yeah, well, uh, you, you had, you had emailed me and said did I wanna go, and it was like, well, I gotta be at the shop for three of those days. Yeah.
11:44
So I could've left Friday and been up there for two days, and I'm like, "I'm not gonna drive six hours for two days." Right. I, I get it. Um- I would, I would, I would wanna make it, you know, five days.
11:51
Well, what I would like to do is I'd like to try to plan it. You know, I enjoy it whether anybody else shows up or not. Sure. I don't really care.
11:57
So, and, uh, uh, so, um, I would like to try to plan it again for next year, put a date on a calendar, and try to promote it and actually see if anybody else shows up. If they don't, I'm still going.
12:07
But, um- That's a good way to do it... yeah. And, uh, there, there's no harm in promoting it, and if somebody wants to join us, they, they can, so- Cool Seems legit.
12:17
Make it, uh, January or February, it's a pretty good, pretty good bet. [laughs] One of, one of the things that I learned that's kind of a key that's...
12:24
So Rome, they have tent camping spots that are specific tent camping spots, and the rest of them are just sort of drive-in camping spots for people with, like, RVs or campers or something like that.
12:35
Um, and they- Glamping... they had so much snow this year that they didn't plow any of their tent camping spots. They just plowed half of the RV spots, um, the, the pull-in trailer spots.
12:48
So frozen winter ground with compacted gravel underneath and tent stakes don't really go well- Ooh... together. So I knew that, um, from previous experience.
12:59
Um, and what I brought this time, which is what worked the last time too, is I have, like, these six-inch galvanized twist nails. So they're just a heavy galvanized nail with a twist in it.
13:10
Like a dog leash thing that you'd put in the ground? Kinda. Kind of an idea. It's, it's just twist. It's not a actual corkscrew thing. Oh, gotcha. It's just got a twist to it.
13:17
And I, I have a, a little hatchet that I always bring with me, and I, um... And so I tested that out in my backyard, which is easier to pound into than the compacted gravel. Gravel. Mm-hmm.
13:29
Um, and I still had trouble getting them out at the end, so my solution was I ground a, a slot in my hatchet, so it's now like a, a, like it's got a little spot that the nail- Okay... can fit in. Mm.
13:42
And it fits in tight.
13:43
And then I can pull it out and sort of with a twist too, because the- they got twists, and then I- Means you don't have to take your DeWalt hammer drill up there to, or impact wrench- You know, that-...
13:50
to try and get it out. [laughs] Honestly, that- honestly, that would be an ideal scenario for that.
13:54
Like, use some long screws and, and just use a, a battery- I mean, I can brap right into the, the concrete wall- Right... with a freaking hammer drill.
14:02
[laughs] That, that would be certainly ideal for, like, if we wanna do an actual roam rendezvous and, and people- Yeah, yeah... wouldn't have to worry about it. Okay.
14:08
But I'm trying to figure out, like, a scenario where, like, I'm actually taking this gear and I'm gonna go on a multi-day trip, and I'm gonna move from point to point. And then what do I do?
14:16
I don't wanna bring a battery powered impact driver with me on a, on a bike pack. [laughs] Right. That's what Spinner's for, with the big, big fat dummy.
14:22
[laughs] He's put it in his bag on the other side of the podcasting gear and don't worry about it. [laughs] You won't even notice.
14:27
So, you know, speaking, speaking of, uh, people doing multi-day winter cold things, it's, uh, the ITI starts this weekend. Sunday is the rollout for the Iditarod Trail- Yeah... Invitational. Ooh.
14:39
And do you know, do you know that we here in Milwaukee are blessed to have the former executive director of the Iditarod lives in Milwaukee. Oh. And that is Willie Koritas.
14:48
He's works for Rails-to-Trails Conservancy now, and he's the head of... He's running the Route of the Badger project here, and he for years was in charge of the Iditarod. Neat. He lived up there.
14:58
He was also in charge of Denali Park. He was at Denali Park as the- Wow, that'd be a guy to have on the show since he's right here in Milwaukee. Yeah. And the Route of the Badger thing is a interesting topic as well.
15:08
The Route of the Badger. So yeah, he, he- I don't wanna be on that route. The Nova Badger. Badgers are mean motherfuckers.
15:12
[laughs] So yeah, so maybe we get Willie on, on this, uh, we can talk, uh, Iditarod and sled dogs. And oh, that is one thing. So my...
15:21
There's another weird thing with my dog, and my dog normally doesn't have problem with cold, and so I don't have, like, booties for his feet or anything. But we got up there and, like, suddenly- Paws...
15:30
five below or whatever, and he was doing that little dance where his paws- Oh, yeah...
15:34
but you're in God's country in the Northwoods, so three miles away is Affordable Sled Dogs, uh, where they manufa- or affordable sl- dog sledding, where they manufacture dog sledding equipment at a guy's house who's a former...
15:49
Well, he still has 12 huskies and stuff, so he still runs his- Did he save booties for you? He didn't have them. I called him up. He's like, "Well, but I can sew them up for you."
15:56
So I went over to his place and he sewed them up, measured Cowboy's feet and sewed them up. Wow. I was like [laughs] Custom made. Maybe he could, maybe he can sew some patches on our coats.
16:06
[laughs] So if you, if you're ever... And he makes some very cool, um, sleds.
16:09
He had a whole bunch of them that he was shipping off to Alaska Brewing, and I was like, "Oh, what he do-" He's like, "Oh, they stick them in, you know, in liquor stores, and they use them as displays." Like props?
16:20
Yeah, for their beer. And every year- Why wouldn't they just find some cheap ass knockoff to do that with? [laughs] I know, his stuff- Beer. Well, he said beer, so it's- Oh. [laughs]... it is top of the hill right now.
16:29
Top of the hill. Top of the hill. So, uh, and I asked him, I was like, "Well, what do they do with the s- the dog sleds afterwards?" He's like, "You know, I've never asked them." [laughs] Wow.
16:40
Speaking of, of, of dogs, what the... Where, where'd this... Is this a dog beer? Uh, no. No, it's Big- Big, Big Head. Big Head. Isn't that right up by Dave- Is that by you?... in Wauwatosa, Big Head Brewing? Mm-hmm.
16:51
This is their- It is... this is their hazy double IPA. Oh. So this has got some chutzpah. You, you aren't slamming this- Ooh... unless you're... Yeah, this is, this is strong. 8.2%- 8.2%... on the ABV scale.
17:03
That's, uh- Shout out to Big Head. Yeah. Have you been over there? Are they up north? Yeah, yeah. They're right off of State Street, right on the corner of, you know, where, um- Mm...
17:12
Willow Glen is, that they're- The place where I always get lost, right? Yeah. There's [laughs] tapatías. That's the problem with Tosa for me, is I just don't go into the little twisty part often enough. Yeah.
17:21
And then I'm like, "Oh, I wanna get to there from... And I gotta go all the way around." Yeah. Well, they've got- I've got to find that place.
17:26
They've got the, sort of the, the hill and, you know, there's, you know, the- I actually-... river and the train tracks. Yep. A lot of stuff that doesn't connect.
17:33
You know, having cycled around there now quite a bit, I've actually got a pretty good handle on it, but it's way easier to bike through there for me than it is to drive a car through there.
17:41
It's easier than Waukesha, though. I'll tell you that. Oh my God. Hell no. Plus, you know, you're in Waukesha. It's right then and there, you just need- You just need the Rons The Tour guide out there. Right.
17:50
No, I worked with a guy who was, he was, he just got hired. He was looking for a place to live, move, you know, and he was scouting out in Waukesha, and he got lo- well, he couldn't get out of there.
18:00
[laughs] 'Cause it was, like, just one way. He's like, he called his wife. He's like, "I might just get a place here 'cause I can't leave." [laughs] [laughs] And it, and it's, it happened, it happened to me once.
18:10
I kept ending up back at the gazebo. It's always that damn gazebo. [laughs] I, I, I, I did have a mind altering, um, like-[laughs] Substance flowing through my, flowing through my- [laughs] Veins
18:25
at the, at the time, though. So I can't blame it all on Waukesha. Yeah. At least not that time, right? Yeah. [laughs] There was a, there was a, a tennis shop,
18:34
Cream City, uh, Cream, Cream City Tennis or- You're getting- I think it might just be rackets... I got my second tattoo in Waukesha... and, oh, Black Dragon? Yeah. Mm-hmm. I almost got my first there. Still canvas clean.
18:46
Wait, no, I'm wrong. Yeah, me too. American... clean canvas. American, which is right by- Oh... Black Dragon. Okay. But yeah, so. Who do we have to thank for this beer? Uh, Mike Lodowski. Mike. Came in today.
18:56
Just a little- Mike... little, a little, uh- Thanks, Mike... adjustment on the, on the wife's new ice cream truck. And, uh- Those wheels... those wheels. That, they just bring that bi- that beautiful bike even better.
19:05
The happy dance by [laughs] Yeah. That was- Yeah. [laughs]... those were amazing. And I, I don't know if you saw my comment on that post. I thought they're amazing, too. That really, totally makes that bike kill.
19:15
It, it was a, it's a gorgeous color anyway- Right, right... you know? But that really, really dialed it. Yeah. And that's, that was a Raphael- Yeah... job. Sam, uh- But- Oh, go ahead.
19:25
Somebody made the comment about it, the, like, the rug brings the room, you know, together. And, uh, and- [laughs] Which brought me to my, like, I am organizing a new, a new fundraising ride, um, this spring.
19:41
It's gonna be called the Dude Abides ride. Dude Abides. Dude Abides. It's gonna, it's gonna have- Some White Russians and whatnot...
19:46
it's gonna have a, a, I, I think I will try to make it a fundraising ride, not just a free ride. Like, maybe ra- 25 bucks or something to raise money for a Chris Cagle Foundation or something like that. For sure.
19:57
But, um- Long as it doesn't clash with the, uh, the Crusher ride. We'll have to coordinate. Right.
20:03
[laughs] So, and, and the, the way I think the ride's gonna work is, is I think we'll s- if we do do it, like, for the Chris Cagle Foundation- Dude it, dude... we'll maybe start in a parking lot- Dude it...
20:13
at, uh, the new Bay View Wheel & Sprocket, um, which is looking pretty cool. If anybody has been over there, it looks pretty amazing. And then- Have not stepped foot in yet...
20:22
and then we're gonna, it's not open yet, but it's pretty cool-looking. Um, it's gonna be a destination bike shop. But, um- This is a destination bike shop. It is.
20:29
[laughs] [laughs] Of a different, of a different, of a different me- 1/10 or one, one 20th- That's right by-... the size kinda deal. Isn't that right by Baby Boomers? It's on the- Yeah...
20:39
Richard Street, right on- Just, just down, just east of there, kinda. Yeah, yeah. Beecher, one block- Yeah, Baby Boomers... west. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Wow, I didn't realize it was only that far into Bay View.
20:49
Yeah, that Baby Boomers- No, no... is what, what ride did we start there? The- Uh-... Goonies ride? No. That was, no, it was- No... it was Biketoberfest. It was Biketoberfest. Oh, Biketoberfest. That was a blast.
20:58
That's a, that's an interesting bar because- Oh, man... it's called Baby Boomers and there actually are babies in there. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. It isn't just for boomers. There's actually- Yeah...
21:04
little baby kids at the bar. It's like, oh, that's South Side Milwaukee. [laughs] [laughs] It w- yeah, for, for sure. So- So the Dude Abide rides, the, the format is gonna be we're gonna go, and this ride, I,
21:16
it- it's based around bowling, of course, 'cause it's The Big Lebowski. Right. So we're gonna have a tour of different bowling alleys.
21:21
Everybody's gonna, I'm gonna try to work it out with the bowling alleys ahead of time where everybody on the ride is allowed a, one free frame. So you get a strike, you get one ball, you get your spare.
21:32
And then you just track that. We'll track that on a little card, and at the end of the ride, we're gonna have, uh, a raffle f- and, um, everybody puts in their, their name with their score.
21:43
And, uh, and then you win a rug- Nice... at the end of the ride. And then we'll also have a costume competition. I think it'll be an individual costume competition. The Jesus.
21:53
And then, and then, uh- Nobody fucks with him. [laughs] And then, and then, uh, a full cast- Woo!... a full cast competition, so, like, if you bring three nihilists and a marmot and, you know, uh [laughs]
22:06
I thought, uh, I thought that it, and then we'll end it at, I'm talking at Great Lakes Distillery, I think next Friday. Already, they already have, like, this small, um, Day of the Dude party- Oh...
22:17
there where they do, like, a White Russian thing or something like that. Um, so that's at, like, in a week or something already.
22:23
Um, but I, I talked to Guy, um, and Jen, uh, the event coordinator there and said, "You know, hey, could, you guys would be a great place for us to end this party if we're gonna be on the South Side." Sure.
22:33
So I think we'll end there, and that's where we'll have the comp- Well, if you're gonna bowl-... etive part... don't forget Falcon. Well- Holler House... I'm gonna stick to the South Side, I think.
22:40
Holler House, for sure. So the first year it'll be, yeah, it'll be Bay View Bowl. It'll be Donny's, which is another real old, like, six-lane alley on the South Side. Um, Holler House, and then Cause's, and then back.
22:51
And then if we move the- Rest in pins, Marcy... then next year- Right... we move the ride to Riverwest or something.
22:56
We add Bay View Bowl and, and, uh, or, I mean, add, add the Falcon and, and go to, um, Landmark and, I don't know, is there another bowling alley around here? Hmm. Mm, yeah. The one in Silver Spring's closed, right?
23:07
Yeah. Or on, uh, Port? Yeah, that one's long closed. That's what I'm considering. But, but there- Oh, we could go to Regano's.
23:11
We could go to Regano's because there's two lanes in the basement, even though they're not, not open. [laughs] We could go to- I like that idea... go to Regano's. At The Roman Coin? Yeah. Yeah.
23:19
You know, that was built in 1880 or somewhere around there by a Captain Frederick Pabst. I believe it's the, the actual oldest- Right... existing bowling lanes. And,
23:29
um, Holler House gets the ex- oldest continuously operating- Continuously operating, yeah... lane. I, I think Regano's is- Or sanctioned, maybe, even...
23:37
yeah, I think Regano's is, uh, Roman Coin is the oldest- I know a guy that fell through-... existing... the trapdoor from the first floor down to the basement there and did not fare well.
23:46
Th- I mean, they didn't- That room... have the, they didn't have any of the safety things that you would have now, and there was a trapdoor to load kegs down in the basement- Oh...
23:53
or whatever, and he just kinda was blah, blah, blah, and bam, right down through there. Yikes. I, I think they closed that off now. Oops. I'm sure they did. And they put windows in the freaking joint.
24:02
I don't know if you remember- I know, it's amazing... in the olden days, there were no windows- And there was not a window in that place... on the, on the west side of the building. Yeah.
24:07
I don't know if you can go there, though. You might get a little allergy attack. Lot of freaking dogs in there. There's a lot of freaking dogs in there. Lot of freaking dogs in there. Oh, I love it.
24:12
You can stand outside. Yesterday was, uh- I j- I usually do go out there in the summer and sit outside and watch Brady Street pass by. Yesterday was, uh- Oh, yeah... Michael- Horny?... Horny's birthday party.
24:22
He, uh, he yelled at my dog at Roma- Roman's My dog was, my dog was barking at me- Cool place Oh, Mike Horn? Yeah, Mike Horn. He yelled at him, like, "Shut up."
24:31
I'm like, "Dude, there's like 15 more bars on this block you can go to." [laughs] Leave my dog alone. [laughs] She likes you, pet her. [laughs] Well- Yeah, yeah. The Coin is interesting to navigate.
24:43
You definitely figure out- It's a place- The... Well, you, you, you, you definitely get the, the dog to owner relationship ratio- Mm-hmm... big time. It's like, um, yeah. Wow. [laughs] Okay.
24:57
[laughs] They, they, they say the more a person's around their dog, the more they look and act like them. Mm-hmm. This is case in point. Yeah. So when... There were some asshole dogs, and I was like, "Oh, shit."
25:07
[laughs] There's some assholes I'm dealing with in this place right now. Still an, an awesome building- Yes... and, and definitely one of those- Singular experience at that one time, but it was.
25:16
Like eight dogs and eight owners that were all independent, but all horrible [laughs] to see. [laughs] Yeah, it was, mm, mind-bending.
25:25
I think, I don't know if this is my question of the week, but it is now because Dave's here, and it, he- he's... Dave's a guy that, he does a lot of perusing on the web and goes to some websites- Mm-hmm...
25:35
that he likes a lot, like bikepacking.com and whatnot.
25:39
[smacks lips] Um, I just, I, I get feeds, like an RSS feed of a bunch of different sites, and I keep seeing stuff like [stutters] here's, here's one of the headlines. "The plus tire trend is deflating.
25:51
Plus tires are dead now too?" Question mark. And I'm like, is this just a doom and gloom thing, or is it a clickbait thing? Is it just something to get people to read it?
25:59
Or, or what the heck is with these sites that have stupid shit like that? This was on Singletracks too, which I don't even think is one of the most egregious crappy bike websites out there. Yeah. I...
26:10
[sighs] Boy, I can't believe that's...
26:13
I mean, you know, i- if you wanna follow market trends, if you r- read bicycle retailer industry news or, you know, any of those things, if you're f- if you know the tire sales statistics and the, you know, the category statistics for plus, maybe plus bikes are down now or something.
26:29
I- And this would be something to, "Hey, maybe Energize." [laughs] Hey, there's a idea here, and da, da, da, da. I know, but, [clicks tongue] you know, the value of, uh, I believe the value of...
26:39
You know, what we've seen, hey, look what we've seen w- i- in tire, you know, evolution. We've got everything now, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, from five-inch to- Yep...
26:49
you know, uh, you know, nobody rides 18s anymore, but um, but you know, you can still buy 'em. [laughs] Um- What the fuck's an 18? An 18c, you know, 700c tire. Oh, God, yeah. Okay, there you go.
27:00
Yeah, those, the narrowest tires- But they still have some... that when you're trying to be super fast back in the old days. Well, even Tour de France guys don't ride those anymore.
27:06
No, a- and it's been proven that fatter tires, uh, you know, roll just as fast in a lot of regards. Especially tubeless. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. So I can't, I can't believe that's true. There are st- there...
27:16
I mean, the, it's, it's an interesting read. I'll have a link in the show notes just because y- they're getting different, um, uh, different perspectives.
27:24
Like, the Salsa guys are saying, "No, we still sell, you know, a pretty good chunk." And I know that that's not a huge percentage-wise, um, amount of the bikes sold, but I just tho- I mean, come on, really? Right.
27:36
This is, i- it's like- And where does- The plus- So where's-... tire trend died quickly, and 29ers are continuing to push 27.5 out of the picture, not even plus. Be- Yes...
27:46
and part of the argument is 29ers have gotten more playful, and they're designed better now, and they don't ride like a wagon wheel anymore, and blah, blah, blah, which I get.
27:54
But I think this is definitely biased towards the, um, full suspension, going down a hill crowd more than- Right... people riding across their state or their town on a little bit more human-sized trails. Right.
28:08
And are, are, uh... Does the article mention anything about 2.6 29er tires?
28:12
Yeah, that's kinda- 'Cause, 'cause like, okay, so instead of three-inch, 2.6 is more popular on a, on the enduro downhill bikes and stuff like that. I'm like, well, okay, so that makes sense.
28:22
But, you know, um, I- For 2% of the people. Yeah.
28:25
Yeah, I was just trying to, I'm trying to- [laughs] I mean, and th- this is just one example, and I, I hate to s- uh, single out Singletracks 'cause I think they do a pretty good job.
28:32
But it just, I constantly see kinda sensationalized headlines that are trying to just suck you in 'cause they need the, the eyeballs.
28:40
I'm happy for all the variety of tire options that we have these days, and you know, I mean, I, I use... I have a wall of bikes in my basement.
28:50
[laughs] [laughs] And they go from fat to skinny, and there are different tools for different jobs, and I pull out whichever- Sure, sure... one makes the most sense. Are they actually arranged from fat to skinny?
28:59
They are. They are. Kinda like all your black shirts are in the same spot- They are... and all the, all the off black shirts- [laughs]... and then all of the- You know-... charcoal colored shirts are in the same spot...
29:06
I'm sorry, but I have to throw this out, and I almost never do. Picture it didn't happen. [laughs] I wanna see a picture of this basement with the bikes arranged like this. [laughs] All right. We'll put it in the notes.
29:15
All right. All right, I'll do that. So I don't think fat tires are dead. It better not be. Yeah. 'Cause every time- I don't think fat tires are dead... I hear it was, it was bad. I don't think fat bikes are dead.
29:23
I don't think any tires are dead. You, you do know that yesterday was Fat Tuesday, right? Yes. Yeah. I, uh- You remember what happened seven years ago on Fat Tuesday? Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh.
29:32
That was, well, that was your injury day. That was my injury day. That was your injury day. It was not pun- When, when you- It was not paczki related, though.
29:39
Uh, I had had a beautifully delicious paczki just prior to, uh- Oh... a really [laughs]... The best part about that was Colin Ford seeing my foot. He was just like [laughs] you know, he almost threw up. Ugh. Oh.
29:53
It was pretty bad. Yeah. Thank you for being able to drive a stick, Greg, and taking my car home for me. No worries. The rage. So and you, and you ran into a guy that witnessed your ragdoll episode nine years ago? Yeah.
30:03
[laughs] I, I think it was nine years ago. I mean, my- Ah, that's what my, uh, WayBack Machine said when I saw it on Facebook Place. Yeah, yeah. Is Fat Tuesday, like, a dangerous bicycle- No, no, this was earlier.
30:13
This was on, on January 1st. Th- this was on- Okay. All right... yeah, New Year's Day- New Year's Day ride... going down to the Polar Bear, and dun-dun-dun, going down the St. Mary's Hill- St. Mary's Hill. Oh...
30:23
instead of the street, the hill. Right. Sure. And oh, there's a little rut, and I went- And that's 'cause he followed me over the edge with- Yeah, like a lemming... no thinking. [laughs] Just, just lemming it. Meh. Okay.
30:37
[laughs] Hadn't taken the rip before, so. So yeah, he had s- he was on the other... He was down by the, um, beach. He l- just, "Well, okay." Looks back the other way. He's like, "I see this bike."
30:51
And then all of a sudden I see some w- speed wobbles, and then a little bit more, and then all of a sudden, whoa, he just, like, did like, turned st- like somersault, somersault, and then there. Oh, the, you know.
31:04
[laughs] He seriously passed me in the air. [laughs] Like, upside down because I was- Just a rag doll... yeah, it was. Da, da, da, da, da, da. And well, it was just so weird to hear this from just a complete random.
31:18
Just a complete damn stranger. And I was like, "Wait, what? When was this?" It was me. [laughs] He was like, "Yeah, it was like 10 years ago. And yeah, it was over n- down by Bradford."
31:29
And I'm like, "Yeah, that was me, dude." [laughs] And I'm like, I'm like, I was amazed. I was amazed 'cause I was...
31:35
I, I remember when I was, like, cognizant finally after the fact, I was like, "Somebody had to take a picture or have that video." I, I got one of you on the stretcher- Yeah, yeah... but that's as far as I got.
31:45
[laughs] Exactly. Exactly. Or just like, but, like, somebody... There was just so many people walking down those damn stairs that I, I was like, I had to run into somebody that was witness to that shit.
31:55
That's, that's only the- And finally. It only took me nine years to run into them. [laughs] That's only the second time I thought somebody might actually have perished because- [laughs]...
32:03
you weren't, he was knocked out for a little bit and- Mm-hmm... and came to and whatnot. And the other time I thought somebody was almost dead is when Spinner slammed Lunz into the ground. [laughs] Oh, that picture?
32:13
I thought for sure that he would, he broke Dave's neck. I'm like, "Oh, that's not gonna be good." But- Dave's fine... all is well that ends well, I guess. Hey. Yeah. So I was at...
32:22
That just reminds me of this, uh, I was over at a friend's friend's, um, house up in, uh, the Cable, when I was up by Cable and Hayward area. And, uh,
32:32
his kids, um, uh, have mountain bikes and they've built their own trails on their property. Just a small- Nice... property, but they built their own trails.
32:43
His house has got a, a green, you know, a grass roof on his house. Oh, sweet Jesus. And so- El Jopo... they have, they have a ladder on one side of their house where they... It's not an earth shelter home, right?
32:55
It's just a regular house, but he put a green roof on it. And so they have a ladder and they shoulder, they climb up a ladder leaning against the, the house. Your father approves of this, huh?
33:05
And they climb up to the top of the house and they jump off the roof of the house onto a, they've built a snow ramp on the other side. [laughs] And then it goes down around. They've got teeter-totters.
33:16
They've got boards. They've got trees that they've built balance beams out of that are four inches wide, and not straight 'cause they're trees just, like, cut in half.
33:27
Four inches wide on top of posts that they ride around. It- How old are these groms? Uh, one of them looked like he was about 12 or 11, and the other- So-... one looked like he was about- So what you're saying-...
33:41
seven maybe... so what you're saying, your, is your friend is the greatest dad in the world.
33:45
[laughs] [laughs] I'm standing there talking to him and the kid, like, jumps o- hucks off the roof of the house, and I was just like, "W- [laughs] Make your own fun in the Northwoods." Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
33:56
Teeter-totters, the whole shebang. I remember, I remember sledding out of- I've got 911 ready. [laughs] And no helmets. And- No helmets, you know? Those are the kids that live forever, though.
34:05
[laughs] That's, that's how we all got here. They remind me of my childhood, right? Yeah. [laughs] I never had helmets and then jumps and ramps- Yeah... and stuff like that. I did have s- two skull fractures, so- Yeah...
34:14
take a lesson. That would explain a lot. [laughs] Three, three broken collarbones. Yeah. Yeah.
34:17
Well, since we're, we're just talking about bike stuff here today actually, and not other associated [laughs] stuff, um, uh, were you at the, the Humboldt? I was. I was. So was... We got the thing here.
34:30
The Humboldt Street, uh, our street right down the block is going to be redone. Reconstructed. Reconstructed- Correct me... which it's in dire need of it... happens once every 50 years or so with this street.
34:41
So how, um... And I know that our, our street just to the west is gonna be a bike boulevard, so we're in a really good spot right here. Hopefully. Hopefully. It will. It, yeah. 2020, right? It's supposed to start. Yeah.
34:50
I mean, it's there. Yep. It's gonna happen. It will. It will. And so I'm just wondering, uh, and, and if I can get a link to this PDF, that would be cool.
34:58
Um, how much of this stuff in this Complete Streets kinda thing is, is happening in other cities and it, and it's working, you know, really well?
35:06
And I think we're, we had a good thing going here for a little while, and then it kinda slowed down, and now it's picking back up again.
35:12
And- So, so Humboldt is a, is a unique arterial because it's, um, a very important, um, corridor for, in a neigh- the neighborhood in Milwaukee that has the highest percent, that your neighborhood here, Riverwest, has the highest percentage of people that ride bikes for transportation, uh, anywhere in the city.
35:31
So, so it's, it's a key, important corridor for cycling. It's also a key transportation corridor for transit users. Um, it's a very important bus route.
35:40
Um, it connects to the university, and lots of people take the bus to the university. So, so it has a couple of, you know... And then there's a lot of parks and stuff.
35:47
So the, uh, east-west crossings for pedestrians are very important on this street as well. Um, it carries a significant... It's an arterial street, a major street. They call it a minor arterial. A minor arterial?
35:58
At, at 14,900 cars per day. Yeah. Well, like, National Avenue or something is, like, or Capitol's, like, 25,000 or some shit like that. Yeah, it still seems like it's not that minor when I'm on it. Right. Right.
36:08
[laughs] So two years ago was the first public information meeting when the project was first given a project number and we're gonna do this, right?
36:17
So two years ago, um, apparently the city came with some proposed plans, and they w- they weren't particularly progressive. They included k- maintaining the bike lane on it.
36:29
But one of the key elements of the plans was to widen-... um, the travel lane to, like, 12 feet. Ooh. It's a major transit route Negatory, dumb buddy. [laughs] And that to do that, they had to narrow the, the- I-...
36:40
the planted boulevard- Yeah, the boulevard... a, a little bit. And so that was the primer appar-...
36:45
I wasn't at that meeting, but I talked to a number of people here tonight who were, and that was the primary discussion then at that. Like, "Don't narrow the, don't narrow the boulevard,
36:55
narrow the travel lane so that there's less speeding." Yeah. And keep the bike lane and, you know, everyone wants to keep the parking, and they wanna, don't wanna lose any trees and all that sorta stuff.
37:05
So DPW did in, in, uh, respect to them, they did listen to that, and their plans that I saw tonight of- essentially reflected that.
37:12
That in a significant number of pedestrian crossing improvements, curb extensions at almost pretty much every intersection- Mm That's huge because of the- Stoplights... because of the Milwaukee slide, you know? Right.
37:22
Yeah. And, and narrow, narrow... You know, they, they maintaining that 10-foot sorta travel lane. There is a one foot gutter pan on each side, so it's technically 11-foot lane.
37:31
But, um, but, you know, it's a major transit route, so buses are 10 feet wide. Yeah. You know, so, so I feel like DPW kinda did everything that people asked for, um, in this.
37:42
However, I made the argument I, I don't know if you saw my e- I saw your post... the email that I, I sent the alderman and the commissioner. I said, you know, respectfully, like, um, I get that this is a...
37:55
There's lots of constraints here, you know? There's trees in the middle of that, that boulevard, you know? Sure. There's, there's trees on the side.
38:03
There's parking that a lot of people have multi-unit hous- Yeah, yeah... it's not all single families, so there's multiple cars per home. So parking's important for those people still. Um, I get all... I have died.
38:14
There's underground high utility constraints and things like that. There's lots of constraints here.
38:19
I said, "However, it's a very, very important route," and, and, um, and this is a generational opportunity to reimagine a tran- an important transportation corridor.
38:30
And I feel like there is a way to actually make protected bike lanes. You will lose
38:36
most of a green boulevard median to do it, but you can take that green from the center and you move it to the buffered zone that protects the cyclist. So you put- I see what you're getting at... so you take that- Yeah.
38:48
Yeah... three foot of green out, that's out in the middle next to the cars, move that between the motor vehicle travel lane and the bike lane, and you- I know you're in the Milwaukee slide...
38:59
and you've got a, you've got a- I don't know about that. [laughs]... three or four foot... The, the median is about 14 feet wide. Yeah. It's 13, 14 feet wide. Yeah. It varies a little bit.
39:08
But so take six feet of that or eight feet of that, put it between the motor vehicle travel lane, make that green. Maybe you can't- Mm-hmm... have trees in it. You might lose those trees in the center of the boulevard.
39:20
Yeah. But you could- But that'd be really cool... but you could plant it. Yeah. It could still be planted. It could- Oh, it could be beautiful... it could be planted.
39:25
It could include passive storm water management in it. Um, it could do- Absolutely... and it could have a separated, protected bike lane virtually the full length of Humble. And bird scooter lane. Right. [laughs] Yeah.
39:37
Well, I mean, it just, to me it makes sense to have... You, you got people walking on the sidewalk. They're going two and a half miles an hour.
39:43
Then you got a place where there's things going 15 to 20 miles an hour, and then there's cars hopefully going 25 miles an hour or less. Right.
39:50
But I mean, i- you know, even, even the stuff that they have in this plan is way better, but I mean, the, the ultimate- Right. It's an improvement.
39:57
And the DPW did what people asked them to do a- at the first meeting two years ago. And so now you've also gotta remember, now there's two years of design and planning.
40:07
It's still early stages in a, technically in a design stage. It's early stages, but there's two years of momentum now in the current design and invested time. And so to turn that bureaucratic train- Hmm...
40:20
would take a lot of- Oh, yeah... it would take a lot... I, I talked to Alder- Well, yeah, the inertia started in 2016, if I wasn't- Right... and- Right. Yeah. So- Yeah. [laughs] So, and if people didn't...
40:33
If, if people had come to that, that very first meeting and said... demanded, you know, protected bike lanes- Protected bike lanes. Mm-hmm... uh, DPW might have done more- Mm... to a- have an option that included that.
40:45
I- But they didn't... I don't even think that was a buzzword that many years ago. You know, I don't- That's true. Yeah. Yeah... it's, it's, it's really come, you know, in the last couple of years.
40:53
We've now got four or five of them r- here in Milwaukee, you know? Mm. Right. Um, so it's something that... But it's only been in the last couple of years- Yeah. Right...
41:00
the, or the last year that that's really happened. Right. Last year. That's right. I, I go outta my way to hit 2nd Street- DPW did not have a-... anytime I'm heading south or heading from south... DPW reorg-...
41:07
The Department of Public Works reorganized, and they have, like, a, a multimodal unit now- Mm... with a multimodal transportation manager, Mike Amzon. He was there. You know, he wasn't there two years ago.
41:17
There was just one bike ped coordinator at the time, I believe. So maybe more of these things in their full reconstructs might be proposed early on in the future for projects. I, I can't predict the future, obviously.
41:30
Sure. I, so I talked to- Damn you... the Alderman Kovac, and I just said, "Hey, you know, I understand all this. I don't blame DPW." And he was like, "Hey, if I...
41:39
I bet if I surveyed the residents on Humble and said- We would all sign it... and s- I'm not on Humble personally... and said that we are gonna lose the plant, the trees in the median." Oh.
41:47
Like, he's like, "I bet a lot of people would say no." Yeah. And you might. Yeah, probably. And, and you might. Mm. So there's 13 feet or 14 feet. How much can you take and save? And still save the trees.
41:59
You might not be able to. S- street trees already have a pretty miserable life, so, you know, get... going from 13 feet... But maybe you could. I don't know. Maybe it could still be green, and you could plant stuff.
42:11
Maybe the... If people had a- To offset this- Yeah. It-... this thing... we're not losing green. Yeah. Right. We're maybe losing trees, but you're not losing green.
42:20
We're just moving the green- But you could get different trees that-... from the center where nobody gets to do anything with it closer to where people walk and bike. And, yeah, interact with it.
42:27
It'd also be interesting to know what stage of life those trees are at. Well, I mean, I think- Yeah, I mean they're medium tree, medium trees... I believe- Yes...
42:34
I believe the average street tree life is, is like- It's pretty low... seven to 10 years, yeah. Yeah. So they don't live very long. So it's not.
42:41
You gotta replant them 'cause they die because they get inundated by salt and all that sort of stuff, you know?
42:46
So- Uh, you, you brought up right at the beginning of this an interesting thing, and I think, why, th- you know, this is obviously a, a, a conversation about one specific street in Milwaukee.
42:54
So everybody's like, "Well, how does that- Oh, good... how does that affect me?" But Dave brought up a very good point, and he said this is a generational change. Mm-hmm.
43:01
And the reason I think that's important in this particular instance is the original design of Humboldt has gone back to 1965. So we're talking about something that's been there for- Right... you know, more than 50 years.
43:12
Or- Almost as long as you've been alive. Quiet. [laughs] There will be- Al- almost as old- There will be repercussions if [laughs]... almost as old as the show. But that it's a, that, that, um- Mm. Mm-hmm...
43:21
you know, if we do this, th- with this recon- construction is gonna last for another, whatever, 40 or fif- well, until cars- 50 years... until dinosaurs stop providing fuel and whatnot. Right.
43:31
And, but, um, it's gonna have to last for that time, and, and things that are... This is a major thing, not just a resurfacing, which has been- Right... a miserable experience the last time they resurfaced it, so.
43:40
There's a difference between a resurfacing and a reconstruction. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Reconstruction involves ripping out curbs, all that sort of stuff. All the substrate.
43:47
Everything that's under the- All, everything underneath... yeah... yeah. Removing all the street- Res- resurfacing-... you know, the trees... you can't move the- Eight, eight inches of concrete under there...
43:53
you can't change the geometrics too much resurf- resurfacing. Right. But, uh- Yeah, no, I think it's, I, well... So, yeah. It's an opportunity. Old, old tree trunks.
43:59
And any time, any time, anywhere, whatever town you live in, where you're listening to this podcast, um, that you have a reconstruction of a street, that's your opportunity to make a major change.
44:13
Be- resurfacing, like I said, they just lay a layer of asphalt. They may do a quick grind over the top, and they lay another- Yeah... layer of asphalt down. It's the same street.
44:19
Nice and pretty for, uh- They, they can't... It makes it smoother and everything. They can- Lipstick on a pig... they might be able to add a bike lane, or they might be able...
44:26
They improve the, um, you know, the, um, uh, ADA compliant, you know, crosswalks and stuff like that with that- [clears throat]... that project, but, but they don't change much.
44:35
This is your chance, and you're not gonna be able to get, do anything different for another 50 years. So do you wanna do it?
44:43
I think it's worth considering and just taking a quick pause and saying, "Here's what we could do." 'Cause I don't, I'm not no longer in that position anymore at DBW, so I don't know. Well, we can't...
44:56
The DOT won't let us narrow a median to this feet or we'd lose every single tree for sure.
45:01
I would like to see a proposal like, say, "Here's what it would take to put a protected bike lane in and try to maximize green space.
45:07
And it would slow our project, and it would cost this much more and xxx," whatever it would do. And say, "Do we, is it worth it? Do we wanna do it?"
45:17
I'd like to see that, but I, I can't blame, fault DBW for not showing that because- Right. No one asked for it... nobody asked. If you don't ask for it. Yeah. That's all.
45:25
Yeah, and that's, I think that's an interesting point here, too, is that, um, it's, it's... There isn't a whole lot of public information when these processes start.
45:35
You were saying if we would've brought this up three years ago, it maybe would've... If there was more public outcry, so to speak, for it.
45:44
So the, the city of Milwaukee recently, you know, adopted a complete streets policy that the, the Wisconsin Bike Fed helped, had a grant to help in design it.
45:52
It was a nationally awarded policy, so it's a very good policy. And, and that includes, um, changes to how they, they operate and how they present pro- proposals and things like that.
46:04
So in theory, what that should do is, like, the n- now... And that was just adopted, like, last year.
46:09
So, like, the next, next generation of reconstruction projects should now start with, like, "Hey, we're designing this. We're gonna reconstruct this street. We're gonna design it for people and goods."
46:22
It's, it's about moving people and goods. It's not about car throughput, which was the traditional way to design things. It's not about trying to keep the same that we've got.
46:32
We're gonna rethink this, and we're gonna think about it in terms of our complete streets policy and improve. And they've done a lot of those things for this project.
46:38
But, uh, so maybe there's an opportunity in the future now for all the projects to have a little bit, the... At that first public information meeting, instead of saying, "We're gonna go to 12-foot lanes. We're gonna...
46:49
To make it better for cars and buses and trucks, and we're gonna take that out of the median."
46:54
And people get fired up, and they don't e- they're not even thinking about the bikes at that point 'cause they're worried about losing their, their boulevard.
47:00
Um, maybe the next one is gonna be like, "Here's, here's two options. We can do this and this, and one of them has a protected bike lane and has all this other progressive stuff on it, and the other one doesn't."
47:11
The other thing I, I suggested was like, "Hey, I don't know what the future of transit is on that corridor and what bus rapid transit in, in, um, Milwaukee County is thinking. And, um, that's a key transit route.
47:22
Like, it might be an awesome place to put a bus rapid transit line on a full reconstruct. You know? Um, I, I don't know, so. Streetcar tracks. Well, I didn't... I don't wanna bring that one up. [laughs] Exactly.
47:34
[laughs] You don't, no. I like, I like streetcars, but I'm, I'm scared. Oh, no, no, no. I, I, I saw, I saw that pop up at one point in, uh- Oh... I think the event discussion on that, and I was like- Yeah... "Oh."
47:45
I, I'm a big fan of them. It has to be in the conversation, but it's more difficult. I just don't think our fair town has the population density to support much more than what it already has. Yeah.
47:53
They're very expensive to, to do. Yeah. And bus rapid transit is pretty freaking great. So I love streetcars, where they have them, where they work really well. I, I use them all the time.
48:03
I, you know, I'm not opposed to ours, but, um, but there's less expensive things to do that most people- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It would be un- Yeah. We have better ways to spend our money. Yeah. It would be.
48:11
As much as I love the Hot- Diggity Dog. I do too. It would be unnecessary up this way. Yeah. So yeah. So hopefully we'll see.
48:17
You know, uh, one thing that I think is interesting is, like, to compare it to how Milwaukee County has recently proposed some of their major projects, reconstruction projects. Um, [tsks]
48:29
like, uh, Menomonee River Parkway. When Menomonee River- Menomonee... that's out by me on the west side. Menomonee.
48:35
When that was f- Milwaukee County is even more cash strapped than the city is in terms of, you know, dollars.
48:42
And so with their parks system, they're looking at a lot of streets, parkways that haven't been reconstructed in maybe 65 years or 70 years or something. So when they get to them and they know that they've got...
48:55
They're cash strapped, they've been looking at, like, how can we reduce future maintenance costs? One way to do that is to narrow these wide parkways. Right. Yeah.
49:03
And then so when the Menom- what I was surprised at when the, in the Bike Fed was on, an advisor on that project, um, the, um, Menomonee River Parkway, one of their first suggestions at their very first public information meeting to the, so the, the county raised this idea, was what if we eliminate through traffic on the Menomonee River Parkway at, like, three locations?
49:28
So Burleigh and, like, four streets were like, "You can't use this as a through route." Freeway. "It's a parkway. It's a neighborhood street. We're gonna stop all the through traffic." That came from the county. Yeah.
49:40
That progressive idea. So that didn't go through. It didn't happen.
49:44
What ended up being reconstructed was speed-raised crosswalks throughout the whole thing, so, and a, a separated bike trail along the entire route, and a bunch of passive stormwater management stuff.
49:57
So the end final project was still a really great project, but what... My point is, like, their first proposal was, "Here's a really progressive thing that what do you think?" We would like to see done.
50:08
"What do you think about it?" You know? They've also done some other projects where they've completely eliminated car traffic and just turned it into a bike trail.
50:16
Like, uh, the connection under the highway out, out by West Allis. You know, if you're riding along, you know, Pa-
50:23
south of, south of Blue Mound, where you ride into Greenfield Park if you wanna ride from the- Oh, yeah... from the Hank Aaron into Greenfield Park. There used to be a road. That used to be a, a road.
50:34
It wasn't a bike trail. It was a road that connected to one sort of, like, dead-end street kind of. Roads make really easy bike paths. And- They already got the structure there. Right.
50:42
So they just got r- when they had to reconstruct it, they're like, "Well, okay, if we, if we narrow this to 12 feet instead of, like, a 40-foot road, it's gonna be way cheaper in the future."
50:51
And, and so they eliminated a road and turned it into a bike trail. So the city has done some of that. You know, south, uh... They've, uh, road diets, they've done some of those things.
51:01
So the city isn't, hasn't not done that. But I'd love to see more of that at the first public information meeting to hit people with, you know, to give, spark their ideas- Mm-hmm...
51:13
um, rather than rely on the community entirely to come up with a new progressive street design. Right. You know? It's hard for the average person. They are the pros. Yeah, right.
51:21
They should be thinking on- And give people-... all options... "Here, we can redo it just like this. We can make it better for cars and screw humans, or we could go this other direction."
51:31
Maybe they could give three options. Cars are humans too. [laughs] You know. Make the- You have one- You should get a sticker made. [laughs] That should be a great sticker. Sorry, it said... It just popped into my head.
51:43
Cars are coffins? Cars are humans. Oh, cars are humans. Cars are humans. Like- Cars are humans too. Yeah. Well, and corporations have rights. That's why I said it. [laughs] That's why I just threw one out there.
51:51
All right. Now- Right on. Obviously- We've gone down a rabbit hole here... right. Obviously, Dave has extensive knowledge about this. Um, and- Which is why he's great to have on the show...
51:59
yeah, and, and this was the most interesting show we've had in the 49 shows we've had now. [laughs] But, um- It's up there. It is Top five. Yeah. Top five. I really appreciate Dave being here, and I'm...
52:08
Well, he's got so much to say. We're definitely gonna have him back here again. And- I love... You know, I love coming down for this, um, the... What stops me from being here more is that I live on the west side.
52:20
West Saeed. And, and, uh- No west side connector... in the winter, in the, in the warmer weather, I'll go south. I- you're north of me. Right. Yep. But I go south, take the Hank Aaron State Trail. You come back.
52:30
Ride down to Lakefront, come all the way around and come back, loop back up. But during the wintertime, I don't really wanna go the long extra route.
52:38
[laughs] So, like, I gotta ride down, like, North Avenue or Center- Oh, Jesus Christ... or something like that to get down here. Oh. And it's- Talk about the Milwaukee slide. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I don't, I don't...
52:45
And especially since it's dark and crappy and- I had an esc- Have you- I had an escort almost my entire way down here, a car driving in front of me in the bike lane almost the entire length of North Avenue, but going slow, and because it's heavy...
52:59
[laughs] Like, I was riding down at, like, 5:30. Yeah. So it's like it's- Uh-oh... nobody, I'm going as fast as traffic is essentially. Right. He rode in front of me, lights off, you know- [laughs]...
53:07
clouds of dope spilling out of the windows. Pace carring you? Go... Yeah. Yeah. I had- That's awesome... I had a pace car the entire- In the city escort... drove in the bike lane the entire length.
53:15
Have, have you been passed on the right yet? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That is just freaking nuts. And I thought that, "Well, hey, he's stopping somebody from passing me on the right." Right. Yeah. [laughs] There you go.
53:23
That's a good way to look at it. Yeah. [laughs] Oh, Jesus. Always look at the bright side of life. So that's why I don't come often. And the one- Understood. All right. I'm...
53:31
Before we wrap this up, I just wanna make one shout-out to, uh, one event this weekend up in Minocqua, Wisconsin. Wow, I was just in Minocqua last week. It is the Rip, Zip and Sip fat bike race.
53:41
Isn't the Huge Ass this weekend too? Oh, yeah. That's at Sand, uh, Valley too. There we go. See, now that too. Oh, yeah. See, I don't, that, that doesn't really come up on my radar, I guess, for some reason.
53:48
Like, that's why- 'Cause your ass isn't huge... that's why Mike and Berger were here. Um, so they have a Le Mans-style start and sledding to the finish. So- Oh, heck yeah. Oh, fan. That's a great idea...
53:57
sort of the whole... Yeah. Fun thing. It's at, like, their zip line- Okay... trails up there. Sweet. Not like the Riverwest zip line. With some berms and some...
54:04
You know, it's sort of a- If you're going to that area, go over to Windman and ride too. Windman. Right on, Dave. Well, thanks very much for being on the show. It was a gas. I mean, we'll have you obviously back again.
54:14
I will. And, uh, p- people will probably listen to that show. Probably. Next week we'll be back without Dave, so- No one will listen. [laughs] Warning, Will Robinson. True. Whoop. Whoop. All right, everybody.
54:25
Thanks for listening. Have a great day. And, uh- Or night... we're gonna come back at you next week. Happy Friday. Show number 50. We should do something special. Fiddy. Yeah.
54:33
Something- Like have, like have two beers instead of just one. [laughs] Like something nifty. Like 50. 50.
54:41
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