Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Life as a Hyper Local Female Financial Planner in Bishop’s Stortford | Tammy Salmon & Emma Layton

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Life as a Hyper Local Female Financial Planner in Bishop’s Stortford | Tammy Salmon & Emma Layton · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  Emma: There's only like 18% regulated female financial vibes in the UK, which is like shocking.
• 0:07
  Emma: Um, so it's so important that we kind of raise awareness in education about, you know, what women need.
• 0:16
  Tammy: As we got older, so as we got into our 30s and those of us went on to become parents, that's when I started to see my colleagues, my female peers, drop drop off.
• 0:26
  Sam Oakes: Do you think mortgage advice to financial advice is a great transition?
• 0:30
  Tammy: People want a mortgage, they come towards you.
• 0:32
  Tammy: It's more of a um a bought product, you know, whereas I think with financial planning, it really is about people not necessarily coming in knowing what they need or wanting what they need.
• 0:43
  Emma: What I really liked about the Academy was the fact that they kind of sort of say, look, it's all about emotional intelligence, right?
• 0:51
  Emma: You know, financial planning is more than like the numbers.
• 0:54
  Sam Oakes: We've never sugarcoated it on this.
• 0:55
  Sam Oakes: You know, a good one to two years of real craft is required to be able to go out and win win businesses by you.
• 1:01
  Tammy: If you're in a room of financial advisors and you're all there looking for the elephant, you know, you're all hunting the same person.
• 1:09
  Tammy: And I just did not want to do that for the next 20 years of my life.
• 1:14
  Emma: That's a mistake, you know.
• 1:15
  Emma: You just just be yourself, be the mum, be the friend, you know, be the sister, you know, be just be somebody that you can relate to.
• 1:23
  Emma: I think that is just the key thing.
• 1:30
  Sam Oakes: So, Tammy, Emma, welcome to the Financial Planner Live podcast in partnership with St.
• 1:34
  Sam Oakes: James's Place Academy and the wonderful way work they do for financial planners to get them into the profession.
• 1:39
  Sam Oakes: And both of you have experienced the St.
• 1:41
  Sam Oakes: James's Place Academy, which we will get into.
• 1:43
  Sam Oakes: But I think first off, Tammy, if you just tell us a little bit about your background, um, who you are, what your partner practices, how you got into the financial planning profession and your links with St.
• 1:54
  Sam Oakes: James's Place Academy, perhaps.
• 1:56
  Tammy: Sure.
• 1:57
  Tammy: So yeah, I'm Tammy Salmon.
• 1:58
  Tammy: I'm a financial advisor of the St.
• 2:00
  Tammy: James's Place practice called Salmon Financial Planning.
• 2:03
  Tammy: We're based out in Bishop's Dortford and I've been in partnership since March 21.
• 2:09
  Tammy: I've been in financial services now, so for 22 years qualified this year as a financial 22 years ago qualified as a financial advisor.
• 2:17
  Tammy: But um, yeah, I started in retail banking.
• 2:20
  Tammy: It was meant to be a gap year before uni.
• 2:23
  Tammy: Um, and then I ended up never leaving really.
• 2:26
  Tammy: So I became a mortgage broker at 20, a financial advisor at 23, and I was kind of getting paid to study and qualify whilst my friends were at uni racking up debt.
• 2:37
  Tammy: Um, and I realised I I loved it.
• 2:40
  Tammy: It was an opportunity for me to move my brain at the same time as you know, do something that felt good, helping people, giving good advice.
• 2:49
  Tammy: So yeah, I stayed in the industry really and and sort of worked my way up different roles, business development, back into advice, had children, worked part-time as a financial advisor, and then became an area manager on a job share basis with another um working parent and working mum.
• 3:08
  Tammy: Before 2018, I was headhunted by the St.
• 3:11
  Tammy: James's Place Academy to come and work for them in helping them bring more talent, female talent, uh more diverse talent into the industry.
• 3:22
  Tammy: Uh so I I came across in June 2018 and was a business development manager at the Academy for about two and a half years.
• 3:30
  Sam Oakes: Very interesting.
• 3:31
  Sam Oakes: So bank assurance backgrounds.
• 3:33
  Tammy: That's right.
• 3:33
  Sam Oakes: A great place to cut your teeth as a financial advisor.
• 3:36
  Sam Oakes: A bit of a shame now that many of the banks and building societies don't have as many financial advisors and opportunities for people to go through the ranks.
• 3:42
  Sam Oakes: You know, when I had a recruitment company called Recruit UK and I used to place people into NATO, you put them in there as personal bankers.
• 3:48
  Emma: That's right.
• 3:49
  Sam Oakes: And then so many years later, they were financial advisors because the training and development was just so brilliant.
• 3:54
  Sam Oakes: It just got them through the process really, really quickly.
• 3:56
  Sam Oakes: It's an excellent training ground.
• 3:57
  Sam Oakes: It's a shame it's not like that anymore.
• 3:58
  Sam Oakes: And obviously, you did the whole mortgage advice to financial advice.
• 4:02
  Sam Oakes: Do you think that that's a great transition actually?
• 4:04
  Sam Oakes: I'm interested in that, because there's lots of mortgage advisors out there.
• 4:06
  Sam Oakes: Maybe they're thinking about moving in, moving on in their career.
• 4:09
  Sam Oakes: Maybe they're thinking about financial advice, but do you think mortgage advice to financial advice is a great transition?
• 4:14
  Tammy: I mean, I did that within the sort of building society um environment.
• 4:18
  Tammy: So I think that was a fairly natural progression for a lot of people.
• 4:22
  Tammy: You know, the step up was obviously additional exams, further study.
• 4:25
  Tammy: So um, you know, I suppose it's the capacity to want to go on and further that level of qualification, it is different.
• 4:32
  Tammy: People want a mortgage, they come towards you.
• 4:35
  Tammy: It's more of a um a bought product, you know.
• 4:38
  Tammy: Whereas I think with financial planning, it really is about people not necessarily coming in knowing what they need or or wanting what they need.
• 4:46
  Tammy: And um therefore I think it is a slightly different skill set.
• 4:49
  Tammy: But I think ultimately, if you're, you know, if you're interested in helping people and giving good advice, then you know, then I think you can move from mortgages into financial planning and it is a great move.
• 5:00
  Tammy: You also need to want to keep seeing those people because I think, especially now in the environment we're in, you know, it's ongoing advice.
• 5:07
  Tammy: You need to be seeing that person every year.
• 5:08
  Tammy: So if you prefer that more transactional type role where you're setting something up for someone and won't see them again for two or five years when their mortgage deal elapses, this probably isn't the right place for you.
• 5:19
  Tammy: But yeah, and if you enjoy that ongoing relationship and building that with those clients, then yeah, absolutely.
• 5:24
  Sam Oakes: Fantastic.
• 5:24
  Sam Oakes: So you spent a long time delivering financial advice, decided to then join St.
• 5:30
  Sam Oakes: James's Place on their academy to attract people into St.
• 5:34
  Sam Oakes: James's Place.
• 5:35
  Sam Oakes: Tell us a little bit about that then and that transition.
• 5:37
  Sam Oakes: What did you do?
• 5:37
  Sam Oakes: What did you learn from that?
• 5:38
  Tammy: Yeah, I mean, my role wasn't um specifically in the sort of recruitment of advisors or you know, into the academy, it was more around the sort of support and development of those advisors as they were going through the academy process.
• 5:49
  Tammy: But I did work alongside the attraction, you know, recruitment team to, you know, to try and support conversations with people as they were considering it and and maybe give them my experience as a as a female in the academy.
• 6:01
  Tammy: Um, I think it's an incredible, you know, environment.
• 6:04
  Tammy: I the reason I left my 20-year career with a different organization to come and work for SJP was because of the academy.
• 6:11
  Tammy: Um, I loved the idea, like you said, the banks and building societies had stopped hiring and recruiting or training financial advisors.
• 6:19
  Tammy: And they were also um reducing the proposition within the bank assurance world.
• 6:24
  Tammy: It was it was very much really around investments.
• 6:26
  Tammy: And you know, I loved the fact that I could use my knowledge and experience and my passion for the role to then help other people find that and and develop themselves into into becoming financial planners.
• 6:37
  Sam Oakes: Distinct like a woman within the financial planning profession.
• 6:40
  Sam Oakes: So, did you see that as a kind of intrinsic challenge as well?
• 6:44
  Sam Oakes: You felt like it was something that you wanted to get involved in.
• 6:48
  Tammy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:49
  Tammy: It's I think it's a great profession for females, um, for women.
• 6:53
  Tammy: I think that there was lots of us, there was probably fair fairly equal parity within the bank assurance between men and women in the role.
• 7:02
  Tammy: What tended to happen is as we got older, so as we got into our 30s and those of us went on to become parents, that's when I started to see my colleagues, my female peers, drop drop off.
• 7:13
  Tammy: Um, because the opportunity to work flexibly or part-time, particularly 10 years ago when I had my children, you know, it was less less available.
• 7:22
  Tammy: Um and yeah, I I did it and I did it very successfully.
• 7:25
  Tammy: But um but I think you know, having an opportunity at St James's Place to to support and help other women come into the industry was really important to me and something that as as we were going through the recruitment process, I was particularly keen to sort of understand how they would help me let them, you know, how how they would, you know, whether they were actually passionate about doing that as well, and and and then you know, how I would be able to help make that happen.
• 7:55
  Tammy: So just you know, just things like thinking about the interview questions or thinking about the environment or thinking about timings, you know, so those sorts of things in terms of the whole process and who we were talking to and what sorts of women we were talking to.
• 8:09
  Tammy: Um because I think there's a misconception this is about maths and technical and you know being good with money, um, which again potentially puts people off, women particularly, about this being a role for them.
• 8:22
  Tammy: When in my opinion, this role is actually about people and helping them.
• 8:26
  Tammy: And actually, I think actually that's uh what a lot of you know women would actually be very keen in doing.
• 8:31
  Tammy: Why do you think that would put women off though?
• 8:33
  Sam Oakes: Then because I'm it would put me off because I'm I'm terrible with numbers.
• 8:36
  Sam Oakes: Numbers freak me out, like genuinely.
• 8:38
  Sam Oakes: Like I have to really work hard to look at a spreadsheet and see numbers.
• 8:41
  Sam Oakes: I'm all over the place with it.
• 8:43
  Sam Oakes: I think someone described it as dyscalcular, you know, it's something like almost like a dyslexia with numbers.
• 8:48
  Sam Oakes: So I get quite sort of freaked out by numbers if I'm completely honest.
• 8:51
  Sam Oakes: Why do you think women might be a bit more nervous about the whole kind of idea of it being financial space?
• 8:56
  Sam Oakes: Is that because but yeah, what's your theory behind that?
• 9:01
  Tammy: You know, it's very much um societally that, you know, the man deals with the money and the woman deals with the house.
• 9:08
  Tammy: But actually, you know, when you get underneath that, you realise that lots of women are running the household budgets, lots of women are incredibly technical, lots of women are interested in investing and finding out about you know how to make their money work harder and do more.
• 9:20
  Tammy: But they typically have been excluded from those conversations.
• 9:23
  Tammy: They won't necessarily have grown up in an environment at home where their mums were taking financial advice.
• 9:28
  Tammy: So um, you know, finance is always seen around the kind of accountancy side of things.
• 9:34
  Tammy: It's about, you know, it's about numbers, as I said.
• 9:37
  Tammy: And for some women that's great, but you know, from a sort of financial planning point of view, it's seen as being a job where you've got to sit in front of people and talk about numbers and technical stuff.
• 9:48
  Tammy: And, you know, if you don't have experience of that being talked about in front of you and other people um delivering financial advice that are female, you know, potentially you're not going to have sort of saw seen role models that you know you can kind of relate to, and um and therefore, you know, it seems like a slightly alien concept to a role that majority of the time is fulfilled by a man.
• 10:14
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, I love it, which is why you being part of the academy, it's like a female leader, isn't it?
• 10:19
  Sam Oakes: If someone sees female leaders, they'll aspire to be a leader, and there's a distinct lack of female leaders within the financial services in general, let alone financial leaders.
• 10:26
  Emma: And I just think to build on that, there's this like massive misconception that financial planning is all about investment performance and like you say, numbers and growth.
• 10:34
  Emma: It's quite like, you know, hard facts, whereas it's a lot more about the soft flax and the kind of goal-based planning.
• 10:41
  Emma: It's more like really holistic.
• 10:43
  Emma: And I think with women, you know, we approach financial planning with a lot more, you know, kind of thinking about our children, our family, our life goals.
• 10:50
  Emma: You know, we want security.
• 10:51
  Emma: So it's just a slightly different approach.
• 10:53
  Emma: And I think women to women, we can relate those soft skills, and that's why, you know, I think women financial advisors are really important in this world.
• 11:02
  Emma: There's a massive need for us, you know.
• 11:04
  Emma: There's only like 18% regulated female financial advisors in the UK, which is like shocking.
• 11:11
  Emma: Um, so it's so important that we kind of raise awareness and education about you know what women need.
• 11:19
  Sam Oakes: I love that.
• 11:19
  Sam Oakes: So tell me, you you you actually decided to leave the academy, go on, set your own partner practice up.
• 11:25
  Sam Oakes: Um, and Emma, you're you're working at that partner practice.
• 11:29
  Emma: Yeah.
• 11:30
  Sam Oakes: So your journey, early days financial services within bank assurance.
• 11:35
  Sam Oakes: What was your journey and how she has articulated it, Tammy?
• 11:40
  Sam Oakes: Did you feel the same way when you were thinking about a career within financial planning?
• 11:44
  Emma: No, so we're really different with our journeys, almost kind of like what we're wearing today, yin and yang.
• 11:50
  Emma: Um, but I think that's why we work really well together and we complement each other and we I learn a lot from Tammy.
• 11:55
  Emma: And I think, you know, for me, so I actually went through like a life transition.
• 12:00
  Emma: Um, I was made redundant and I was working in the wealth industry, so it was quite a shock for me.
• 12:06
  Emma: I really didn't know where to turn, but I'm a massive believer on kind of building on your skill set.
• 12:12
  Emma: And um there was a part of me that also wanted to challenge the status quo, right?
• 12:18
  Emma: So I'd been working in this industry for a while and I didn't really see many people like me, and it kind of made me question well, you know, I'd like to speak to someone like me.
• 12:27
  Emma: So surely there's a gap in the market for someone like me to potentially give advice, and I wanted to build on everything I'd already learned in the industry.
• 12:36
  Emma: Um, so that kind of made me think about my options.
• 12:40
  Emma: And at the time I knew about the academy, and what I really liked about the academy was the fact that they kind of sort of say, look, it's all about emotional intelligence, right?
• 12:51
  Emma: You know, financial planning is more than like the numbers.
• 12:54
  Emma: So that appealed to me, and that kind of gave me the structure and support to kind of take the leap and go into financial planning and go through the exams.
• 13:03
  Emma: Um, so it was it was like a career change, but I was looking for longevity and kind of qualifications.
• 13:09
  Sam Oakes: So yeah, and the support was a different journey.
• 13:11
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 13:11
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, support was requires.
• 13:12
  Sam Oakes: So I'm really in intrigued then.
• 13:14
  Sam Oakes: So you you went on to set your own partner practice up.
• 13:17
  Sam Oakes: You work for Tammy in her practice.
• 13:21
  Sam Oakes: These are two viable options that were available within the St.
• 13:25
  Sam Oakes: James's Place Academy route.
• 13:27
  Sam Oakes: And actually, I think statistically, I think 70% of people actually go on in a similar journey to yourself working under a partner practice.
• 13:33
  Sam Oakes: I was just outside talking to a young power planner, 27 years old.
• 13:38
  Sam Oakes: He's doing exactly the same, working underneath a partner practice and sold the benefits to me and said, Well, this is why I'm doing it.
• 13:43
  Sam Oakes: You know, it's it's it's less risky for me to take this point.
• 13:45
  Sam Oakes: I'm younger, it's less risky for me to do it.
• 13:47
  Sam Oakes: I can learn a lot through these people, but really kind of intrigued.
• 13:50
  Sam Oakes: How did you how did you get together?
• 13:52
  Sam Oakes: How did you actually find each other?
• 13:54
  Sam Oakes: Because Bishop Stopford isn't exactly the biggest place in the world, is it?
• 13:58
  Tammy: No, it's like a weird dating app, isn't it?
• 14:01
  Tammy: Story.
• 14:02
  Tammy: But um uh yeah, I'd been running the practice for a couple of years and it'd been going really well in terms of you know, busy, lots of regular referrals, recommendations, and regularly getting in, you know, um opportunities that I, you know, wasn't always able to have the capacity to be able to look after.
• 14:24
  Tammy: And I think from a kind of longevity point of view, I didn't want to at a very early stage sort of shut up the books already and say, you know, that's it, I'm just gonna service those number of clients that I've built and not help anybody else.
• 14:35
  Tammy: I could see there was still an opportunity to keep helping for people locally.
• 14:39
  Tammy: So I started thinking that I probably needed an advisor.
• 14:43
  Tammy: And then I've really enjoyed working with my all-female team and um really enjoyed working with a predominantly female client base.
• 14:52
  Tammy: And I just really thought that the next advisor would probably need to be a female, but you're not allowed to put that on any ad anywhere.
• 15:00
  Tammy: Um, and and when I spoke to my clients and said to them, you know, who do you think would who do you think I would recruit as an advisor if there was, if you know, if in the future to see somebody else because I wasn't around or to help from a capacity point of view.
• 15:12
  Tammy: And and in most cases, they said, well, we'd probably be another woman, I think, wouldn't it, Tammy?
• 15:17
  Tammy: So it made me realise that, you know, clients were sort of expecting that that's the sort of person I might bring in.
• 15:23
  Tammy: And then, you know, this is someone I'm gonna work alongside, I'm gonna see them every day, hopefully get on with them.
• 15:31
  Tammy: So I just sort of really was thinking to myself, I'd want it to be someone, you know, a bit like me, someone who's got similar sort of things going on in their life and have had a bit of life experience.
• 15:42
  Tammy: So I started sort of telling people that I was looking for a female financial advisor.
• 15:46
  Tammy: And if they happened to live locally in Bishop's Talford, that'd be even more of a bonus.
• 15:49
  Tammy: And as you said, like it's not at the you know centre of the world, so um, and there's only 18% female financial advisors, so like you know, it was kind of needle and haystack type thing.
• 15:59
  Tammy: But um, I went to a networking event uh December 23.
• 16:04
  Tammy: Um, didn't plan to go, but went, walked in the room, had a you know a few chats with a few people, and someone said, Oh my gosh, Tammy, there's another female financial advisor here today.
• 16:15
  Tammy: And I am normally the only one in the room, so I was like, Oh, who is she?
• 16:19
  Tammy: And um, and sort of made my way over.
• 16:21
  Tammy: And we have our little name badges on, didn't we?
• 16:23
  Tammy: So, oh, you're Emma, you're dressed very similar to me right now.
• 16:27
  Tammy: Um, are you the female financial advisor everyone's talking about?
• 16:30
  Tammy: And she was like, Yeah, are you Tammy?
• 16:32
  Tammy: And um, yeah, we just hit it off.
• 16:35
  Tammy: Yeah, chatting.
• 16:37
  Tammy: And you know, Emma had sort of articulated that she was on um the academy program, and I'd obviously come out of that.
• 16:44
  Tammy: She was asking questions about how I'd built the business.
• 16:47
  Tammy: So I said I'd give her a few contacts and introductions to some networking groups that um were local that I actually didn't have capacity to go to, so I said that I was happy to introduce her instead.
• 16:57
  Tammy: Um, and then I sort of articulated that I thought it was great that there was a you know another female financial advisor and you know that I was looking for the same next year, and that was it.
• 17:10
  Tammy: Like we just kind of left it at that, really.
• 17:13
  Tammy: Um but yeah, I couldn't get her out of my head.
• 17:19
  Sam Oakes: So it's collaboration, not competition.
• 17:21
  Sam Oakes: A lot of people would see that as being competition, seeing somebody in the networking group who's also in the same company.
• 17:26
  Sam Oakes: And in fact, again, the lad X that I just spoke to said, one of the biggest challenges I've got, Sam, I'm going to networking event and there's seven St.
• 17:32
  Sam Oakes: James's place advisors there.
• 17:34
  Sam Oakes: You know, he feels challenged by that.
• 17:35
  Sam Oakes: You saw that as an opportunity.
• 17:37
  Emma: It was really refreshing, Sam, I have to say, like, because I was a little bit nervous or being the newbie in the room, and Tammy, who I kind of already obviously had checked out, successful female financial advisor in Bishop Stortford.
• 17:47
  Emma: I'm like, oh my god, you know, nobody's gonna want to talk to me.
• 17:50
  Emma: And the fact that Tammy came over and she was just so open and you know, just she wanted to help me.
• 17:56
  Emma: And I just thought that was amazing, that really stood out, it was really refreshing, and it it kind of it's kind of what I'm about.
• 18:03
  Emma: So I could really relate to that.
• 18:05
  Emma: It was really, you know, great to make that connection and then just build on it.
• 18:09
  Emma: We just carried on talking from there, and just our goals aligned, you know, what we're looking to achieve aligned, and it just naturally led to me joining her practice last year.
• 18:18
  Emma: Um, and it's been really great since.
• 18:22
  Sam Oakes: One of the things I want to ask is you're both mothers.
• 18:24
  Emma: Yeah.
• 18:25
  Sam Oakes: There are going to be women listening to this podcast that are either wanting to have a family or have a family?
• 18:30
  Sam Oakes: Are the needs different when you're a female and you work within financial planning or even wanting to work with any kind of business?
• 18:39
  Sam Oakes: Is there is there a is there a requirement you feel that is needed that is often overlooked perhaps in a business that is predominantly male?
• 18:46
  Sam Oakes: And we can say that because there are m lots of predominantly male financial planning businesses.
• 18:50
  Sam Oakes: Are there kind of emotional, physical, uh, parental needs that need to be taken into consideration?
• 18:57
  Sam Oakes: And are they ever are they ever kind of like lived in your head rent-free and made you feel less than?
• 19:02
  Emma: Yeah, I this is a massive one for me.
• 19:05
  Emma: I think it's key.
• 19:06
  Emma: Um, you know, when you look at the stats, you know, and Tammy mentioned this, like one in two women leave financial services mid-career because there's this massive retention problem, you know.
• 19:19
  Emma: And I think businesses are just missing a massive opportunity, maybe not without like really thinking about it.
• 19:28
  Emma: Um, you know, I've been in situations before where I'm trying to live up to kind of that male archetype of the rigid working structure and the hours, which is just so stressful as a mum because you just can't maintain it.
• 19:44
  Emma: You know, you do have other responsibilities like dropping your kid off to school and picking your kid up, or you know, going to sports days or just things like that.
• 19:52
  Emma: So I think offering, you know, kind of a business that's more relationship-led, values-led, empathetic, flexible, is just a much better solution for women in the industry.
• 20:05
  Emma: And I think actually, you know, we work really successfully like that, don't we?
• 20:09
  Emma: So I think this kind of mindset piece that it needs to be rigid and like old school nine to five, you need to be at your desk nine to five, it's just not true anymore.
• 20:17
  Emma: You know, I was when I go and pick Reg up, I'm speaking to the mums outside the school gate, like you are.
• 20:22
  Emma: You know, I'm using every opportunity to kind of chat and make those connections.
• 20:27
  Emma: And actually, that helps build our business and drive our business.
• 20:31
  Emma: So you don't need to be at a desk nine to five.
• 20:34
  Emma: It's just it's so much bigger than that.
• 20:37
  Sam Oakes: No, I love that.
• 20:37
  Sam Oakes: Absolutely.
• 20:38
  Sam Oakes: Tammy, you you you've obviously been a success within your business and you've grown it to the point where you wanted to take on new advisors and fantastic, Emma's come along and you've picked her up.
• 20:47
  Sam Oakes: But what does it take to actually become a success?
• 20:49
  Sam Oakes: And I can imagine there's a lot of I'm gonna bring it back to women, right?
• 20:52
  Sam Oakes: And and men as well, right?
• 20:53
  Sam Oakes: People find it difficult to go out there and and generate clients, right?
• 20:56
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, it's probably got to be the toughest part.
• 20:58
  Sam Oakes: And uh, we never should we've never sugarcoated it on this.
• 21:00
  Sam Oakes: You know, a good one to two years of real graft is required to be able to go out and win win business.
• 21:05
  Sam Oakes: This is what I hear, right?
• 21:06
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, that's what I'm told.
• 21:07
  Sam Oakes: Even just had somebody on from JP Morgan spent nearly 12 years working at JP Morgan, but it still took a long time for her to develop the clients that she that she required.
• 21:15
  Sam Oakes: Okay, just because you come from financial services or something doesn't mean you're gonna be a huge success.
• 21:19
  Sam Oakes: So what are the things that you did?
• 21:21
  Sam Oakes: What were the some of the I have to say common misconceptions and how did you become a success?
• 21:28
  Tammy: So I I spent a lot of time previously in the academy where you know the trainees would write out a list of the hundred people that they knew that might be potential future clients, and then they'd pass all their exams and get out into the real world and start looking at this list and saying, you know, I need to you know go and talk to them because they're a potential client, and this person because they're a potential client.
• 21:54
  Tammy: And what I realized when I went out on my own was that they aren't going to be your first hundred clients.
• 22:01
  Tammy: They might in the future become clients, but your friends, your closest friends and family typically won't be your first clients.
• 22:09
  Tammy: In fact, my first clients were people I didn't even really know.
• 22:12
  Tammy: And I think for me, I have known since day one who I wanted to be talking to.
• 22:20
  Tammy: And so I spent the sort of three months of my resignation period really spending time working on my business plan and working actually with the SJP marketing team because they were my colleagues and friends, and thinking about, you know, if I'm gonna quit a corporate salary and a 20-year career, which gives me significant benefits, security and I'm gonna do this.
• 22:47
  Tammy: What um what do I want to do for the next 20 years of my life?
• 22:50
  Tammy: I'm I was 40 and I wanted to talk to people that I had some level of rapport with.
• 22:56
  Tammy: I wanted to talk to people that I would see on an ongoing basis and they wanted to see me.
• 23:02
  Tammy: I wanted to make a difference, I wanted to give really good advice, and I wanted to build something that my family and my children and you know we're gonna be proud of in our local community.
• 23:13
  Tammy: So I think I just worked backwards from there and thought, well, who are these people?
• 23:18
  Tammy: They're they're probably mums and dads, they're probably my friends, my peers, and I just spent a lot of time thinking about where they were and what they needed.
• 23:29
  Tammy: What were they, what were their issues, what were their problems, what were their gaps.
• 23:33
  Tammy: And I think really luckily for me, I didn't have to really manufacture anything because I was already there, you know, I was already at the school gates, I was going to female networking groups, I was talking to my friends and family about you know what I do and how I help people.
• 23:53
  Tammy: And I think to a degree people came towards me.
• 23:57
  Tammy: You know, there's a level of sort of attraction marketing where it was authentic, I was being real, I was helping freely, I didn't have barriers, made it very easy to start the conversation.
• 24:11
  Tammy: And that's exactly what I did.
• 24:14
  Sam Oakes: And do you think the very fact that there is a distinct lack of females within financial planning, standing up and talking about finance to women is only going to attract women to you, right?
• 24:27
  Sam Oakes: It's only gonna it's only gonna bring clients to you.
• 24:30
  Sam Oakes: So there is a confidence within standing up and being different, like and standing out.
• 24:35
  Sam Oakes: Did you find that more women came to you and did they come to you with confidence?
• 24:46
  Tammy: So inevitably there was some kind of catalyst I found.
• 24:50
  Tammy: So I would get an email or a phone call or an introduction, and something had happened in that person's life.
• 24:57
  Tammy: Um, 60% of my clients are women, the other 40% are men.
• 25:01
  Tammy: Um, and you know, a lot of those um male clients are the other halves of my female clients.
• 25:08
  Tammy: Uh some are independently seeing me without their other halves.
• 25:11
  Tammy: Um, but I think when they were recommended to me or they'd seen me recommended, they would look me up, they'd Google me, and they would find me on my social media just showing up as myself.
• 25:27
  Tammy: And I think by the time they'd taken the plunge to message me or email me or contact me, I think they felt like okay, I I kind of understand who this person is to a degree.
• 25:39
  Tammy: You know, she's a 40-something mum from Bishop's Dalford.
• 25:42
  Tammy: Like, this is not a scary person.
• 25:44
  Tammy: I probably have bumped into her in the supermarket.
• 25:47
  Tammy: My friends probably know her.
• 25:49
  Tammy: Um and and then ordinarily when I pick up the phone, there's been a catalyst, something's happened that's meant that they're now seeking financial advice.
• 25:58
  Tammy: And they're probably a bit worried, they're probably not sure about how the process works, they're not sure how much it costs, they're not sure if they've got enough, they're not sure why they haven't had financial advice before, even if their other half is getting financial advice, but they know that they need it.
• 26:17
  Tammy: And yeah, I think I've just tried to, as I said earlier, I've tried to make it less intimidating, no jargon, less scary first step.
• 26:32
  Tammy: Yeah.
• 26:32
  Emma: I think we'll like we will speak to like everybody, you know.
• 26:35
  Emma: We offer quite a lot of just free financial advice, you know, happy to sit down with someone, have a coffee, like as many times as you want.
• 26:44
  Emma: It's there's no barriers, we're not putting up barriers, we don't have like minimums, you know, we're just we just really genuinely want to help people in the community because we're so passionate about it and we've got a lot of free advice to offer.
• 26:55
  Emma: So I think that just helps people.
• 26:57
  Emma: We're very approachable, and I think that makes a difference for women because you know, it is normally quite a scary concept, right?
• 27:04
  Emma: So if you can just sit down with somebody, have a free financial health check and have a cup of coffee, then it's just it's just a lot easier.
• 27:13
  Emma: So it's just about being warm and open and just approachable, really.
• 27:18
  Sam Oakes: What I also love about it as well, because the small community you're actually based in, you're not a million miles away from London.
• 27:22
  Sam Oakes: You can come into London, you can come into the SJP offices.
• 27:25
  Sam Oakes: You mentioned it.
• 27:26
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 27:26
  Sam Oakes: You spent a lot of your time working here yourself, Emma.
• 27:29
  Sam Oakes: But what it tells me is that to be a successful financial planner, to to add value, you don't have to think so big all the time.
• 27:37
  Sam Oakes: You you you have an audience at the school gates.
• 27:40
  Emma: Yeah.
• 27:40
  Sam Oakes: So who am I?
• 27:41
  Sam Oakes: What do I do?
• 27:42
  Sam Oakes: Who do I who do I communicate with on a daily basis?
• 27:45
  Sam Oakes: Do I know anybody who has similar problems to me or has similar issues to me or similar stresses to me in life?
• 27:50
  Sam Oakes: Who are they?
• 27:51
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 27:52
  Sam Oakes: How quickly can I connect with those people?
• 27:54
  Sam Oakes: How easily can I connect with those people?
• 27:56
  Sam Oakes: What's my niche essentially essentially, right?
• 27:59
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Sam Oakes: And then go deep go deep on that niche and really, really understand it.
• 28:02
  Sam Oakes: You did you ladies set up anything like on Facebook?
• 28:05
  Sam Oakes: Because I know Facebook's really, really popular with financial plans, probably more so than like your LinkedIn and stuff.
• 28:09
  Sam Oakes: On LinkedIn, they all tend to link in with each other.
• 28:11
  Sam Oakes: I mean, there is a strategy I can tell people about how to make money on LinkedIn and link in with financial planners, right?
• 28:17
  Sam Oakes: Link in with your target clients.
• 28:18
  Sam Oakes: Not financial planners.
• 28:21
  Sam Oakes: Linking with me, obviously, every financial planner, because you're my niche.
• 28:24
  Sam Oakes: But um, do you lean into any other social platforms, Instagram?
• 28:27
  Sam Oakes: Because I know Instagram's very popular with women, right?
• 28:29
  Sam Oakes: TikTok's very popular with women, it's a bit stereotypical, maybe.
• 28:32
  Sam Oakes: Actually, TikTok's popular with my nine-year-old child, but those platforms, have you found yourself gravitating towards those at all more so than uh the corporate style LinkedIn?
• 28:43
  Tammy: Yeah.
• 28:43
  Tammy: I mean, most of my business and referrals and recommendations comes from the Bishop Storeford Mummies Facebook group.
• 28:49
  Tammy: So massive shout-out ladies.
• 28:50
  Tammy: Um I probably get two inbox inquiries a week minimum, as well as other sort of shout-outs and recommendations on there.
• 29:05
  Tammy: Um, and then there'll be, you know, third-party kind of contact where someone will pick up the phone.
• 29:10
  Tammy: So my wife keeps seeing you recommended on Bishops Talk for Mummies Group, so she said I should give you a call.
• 29:16
  Tammy: Um, so for me, it's been incredibly valuable.
• 29:20
  Tammy: It's a place where we all go to ask for recommendations of all sorts of things, you know, plumbers and carpet fitters and solicitors and you know, carers for parents.
• 29:30
  Tammy: We a lot of women are on there sharing stuff about their lives and you know, going through divorces, having problems with you know children or whatever, and and they go there, the hive mind of someone else on this community's probably been through it.
• 29:44
  Tammy: Help me, who do you recommend?
• 29:46
  Tammy: And if if a poster goes up saying, Can anyone recommend a financial advisor?
• 29:50
  Tammy: I'm very honoured to say that I will get tagged if it's not at least four or five, sometimes six or seven times.
• 29:57
  Tammy: Yeah, you know, it's like the community.
• 30:00
  Emma: Hub, isn't it?
• 30:00
  Emma: It's like a natural, it's a great platform because it is, it just captures the community on Facebook.
• 30:05
  Emma: And I was really surprised because when I joined Tammy, I was just like, What you mean your phone's all coming from Facebook?
• 30:11
  Emma: Like, I didn't really appreciate that.
• 30:13
  Emma: And I've seen it in action, it is amazing because everyone's just you know helping each other out.
• 30:18
  Emma: Um, and I do think that's more effective because we've both got like Instagram sites and stuff, and I think Instagram's great for building a brand.
• 30:26
  Emma: It's helped me a lot when I've been networking and people are like, Who are you?
• 30:29
  Emma: and what do you represent?
• 30:31
  Emma: And I can, we you know, we swap each other's Instagrams and they can like just learn a bit more about me, but it doesn't, it's not so powerful in terms of direct referrals and you know, people vouching for you because I can't really vouch for you over Instagram.
• 30:44
  Emma: It's someone who has to go directly to you, whereas on Facebook, it's other people vouching for you, which I think is the key thing, isn't it?
• 30:50
  Tammy: Yeah, I get you know, I get inquiries from people who aren't actually the original poster.
• 30:55
  Tammy: They tended to have been seeing me tagged a lot.
• 30:59
  Tammy: Um and they've then not commented on that post and then contacted me directly to say I keep seeing you posting or recommended.
• 31:07
  Tammy: Um I'm not allowed to advertise on that site, so there's nothing I'm not actually marketing myself on that site.
• 31:14
  Tammy: I'm just being recommended by local local mums.
• 31:17
  Sam Oakes: Because you're answering questions and you're being helpful and you're being supportive in a public manner, so it becomes that social proof that people see that this person understands what they're talking about.
• 31:25
  Sam Oakes: They're helpful, they're empathic, um, they've helped somebody else, someone's referred on.
• 31:30
  Sam Oakes: It is powerful though.
• 31:31
  Sam Oakes: I think the community element is is so so powerful.
• 31:33
  Sam Oakes: When you look at Instagram, it is kind of like look, it is this, it's look at me.
• 31:36
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 31:37
  Sam Oakes: It's all kind of like who's got the best looking Instagram.
• 31:39
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 31:40
  Sam Oakes: It's all very it's all made to feel like you want to aspire to.
• 31:44
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 31:44
  Sam Oakes: It doesn't make me feel like I want to go to that person and ask them for help.
• 31:48
  Sam Oakes: It almost makes me feel a little bit out of reach.
• 31:50
  Emma: Definitely.
• 31:51
  Sam Oakes: But when you're in a community and you're in a safe space and you're seeing other people ask questions that are on your mind, and you don't even have to ask it yourself, you can just watch for a bit.
• 31:59
  Emma: Yeah, completely.
• 32:00
  Sam Oakes: And you can see the answers unfold.
• 32:01
  Sam Oakes: And you're like, oh wow, like that person's a bit like me.
• 32:03
  Sam Oakes: And that's the social proof element, but that's the power of community.
• 32:06
  Sam Oakes: I know that.
• 32:07
  Sam Oakes: You know, I I've I've experienced that I'm doing it again, I'm going back into another community that I left because I because I am quite an emotional, empathic type person, and the way you described the way the women communicate and talk to each other and help each other.
• 32:21
  Sam Oakes: Men, it's a lot harder for men for men to do that.
• 32:26
  Sam Oakes: You feel a bit like you shouldn't open up too much.
• 32:30
  Sam Oakes: Whereas women, it becomes natural.
• 32:32
  Emma: Yeah.
• 32:32
  Sam Oakes: And and and they pick up on it and they almost they go for it.
• 32:35
  Sam Oakes: My wife's been over in Dubai with me for 10 months, found it hard to integrate, but then she did go onto these channels that were like wives in Dubai and all of that.
• 32:44
  Sam Oakes: And they are all talking amongst themselves and having chin wags and everything, you know, everything goes on in there.
• 32:49
  Sam Oakes: Um, but she did learn a lot from it and got a lot of introductions and a lot of support, a lot of help when it was required.
• 32:54
  Sam Oakes: So I do see that, and community is massively important.
• 32:56
  Sam Oakes: Um, you don't have to be posting all the time, look at me, look at me, look at me.
• 33:00
  Sam Oakes: You need to be actually communicating and helping and showing your worth.
• 33:04
  Tammy: Yeah.
• 33:04
  Tammy: And we do that in we've got uh an office in a co-working space in Bishop's daughter as well, and it's full of entrepreneurs, business owners.
• 33:11
  Tammy: And again, you know, we'll be downstairs making a cup of tea, and someone will typically kind of you know, sidle up to us and be like, So uh what do you think about what's just happened with Trump?
• 33:20
  Tammy: And you know, have your have your investments fallen by X amount?
• 33:23
  Tammy: And you know, they're just asking some little gentle questions.
• 33:27
  Tammy: Sometimes someone will start a um a sideways conversation about something and we'll kind of join in and then they'll be like, Oh, I didn't realise that you helped in those sorts of areas.
• 33:36
  Tammy: And and so we've also got this sort of micro community within our co-working space, and you know, that has also helped me build a client base like hyper local.
• 33:46
  Tammy: They're literally downstairs, you know, and um and it's and I love that.
• 33:51
  Tammy: I love the fact that being, you know, you asked about setting up your own business.
• 33:55
  Tammy: I it was super lonely.
• 33:56
  Tammy: I I used to work in this building in you know, SJP in Lombard Street, hundreds of people here every day.
• 34:02
  Tammy: And then I launched the business on my kitchen table at the end of the second lockdown.
• 34:07
  Tammy: And, you know, how are you building a business when you're sitting at your kitchen table?
• 34:11
  Tammy: Yeah, really.
• 34:12
  Tammy: I mean, you know, yes, you can do online networking and you know, yes, you can do Zoom calls, but I was absolutely itching to get back out.
• 34:19
  Tammy: And I also wanted to feel like I was going to work.
• 34:22
  Tammy: So I invested really quickly in uh a private office within a co-working space, made myself get up every day, get dressed, do my hair, put my makeup on, you know, leave the house and go to work.
• 34:37
  Emma: Yeah.
• 34:38
  Tammy: And I literally had like a this concertina file they used to carry around with me, which was like my first load of clients.
• 34:44
  Tammy: But and I could have opened that anywhere and I could have made those calls and done those zooms anywhere, but I chose to do that in the office and be present and separate work from home.
• 34:54
  Tammy: Uh and that was also a significant boost to both my you know professional side, but also personally how I felt.
• 35:03
  Tammy: Um I I didn't, I'm not good lonely, you know.
• 35:07
  Tammy: I it I I love being around people, um, I love learning from people.
• 35:11
  Tammy: I met people in that building I would never have met, just stuck at home.
• 35:16
  Tammy: And um, and some of them have gone on to become you know brilliant clients who've then gone on to recommend me again.
• 35:22
  Tammy: And you know, they're giving us their life savings because I am just there.
• 35:28
  Tammy: They can see me.
• 35:29
  Tammy: Yep, they can have a cup of tea with me every day if they wanted to.
• 35:34
  Tammy: And then when they recommend me to somebody else, they're like, oh I literally see her.
• 35:38
  Tammy: You know, I'm not this sort of faceless person that travels an hour into some city to meet them in some you know, nameless cafe or hotel and see them once every year like that.
• 35:48
  Tammy: A lot of my clients will physically see us, whether it's locally in the shops or the school gates or in the office.
• 35:54
  Tammy: And even if they don't speak to us, they just know we're there.
• 35:57
  Sam Oakes: I love I love the word hyper-local.
• 35:58
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, I thought that was a great way to explain exactly how you're building your business.
• 36:02
  Sam Oakes: You're becoming hyper-local.
• 36:04
  Sam Oakes: Love that.
• 36:05
  Sam Oakes: Um, I also think accessible.
• 36:07
  Emma: Yeah.
• 36:07
  Emma: Yeah, definitely.
• 36:08
  Sam Oakes: You've remained accessible, you've put yourself out there to be asked questions, you've made yourself visible, you've you've you've been kind and considerate with your time and energy with others.
• 36:18
  Sam Oakes: And although it might not lead to some business with that person right there and then, they have a great experience with you.
• 36:23
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 36:23
  Sam Oakes: When we have a great experience with somebody, we want to tell everybody with a bad experience, we want to do the same as well.
• 36:28
  Emma: Yeah.
• 36:28
  Sam Oakes: So I think being able to kind of treat people with um the kindness, compassion, and respect will always pay dividends in the future.
• 36:36
  Sam Oakes: And I think that's how good news travels fast.
• 36:38
  Sam Oakes: Have you met his ladies, you know, ambitious of the you know, this is what they're up to?
• 36:41
  Sam Oakes: I see him at the school gate or whatever, or he actually works in my co-working space.
• 36:45
  Sam Oakes: Everybody wants to tell somebody if that person's given them some information that's made them feel comfortable and calm, right?
• 36:52
  Emma: Yeah.
• 36:52
  Emma: I love that.
• 36:53
  Sam Oakes: I do love that.
• 36:54
  Sam Oakes: Now, anybody listening to this might be thinking, oh, these ladies have got it good, haven't they?
• 36:57
  Sam Oakes: You know, their work life balance sounds fantastic.
• 36:59
  Sam Oakes: They're they're they're mothers, yeah.
• 37:01
  Sam Oakes: Um, you're face there, right?
• 37:04
  Sam Oakes: When I said work life balance is fantastic, and this is exactly where I want to get to.
• 37:08
  Emma: Yeah.
• 37:09
  Sam Oakes: I mean realities of it.
• 37:11
  Emma: Reality check.
• 37:12
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, let's have a reality check.
• 37:14
  Sam Oakes: You know, financial planning.
• 37:16
  Sam Oakes: Does it take a lot of your time and energy when we when we talk about looking after the children?
• 37:23
  Sam Oakes: Tell us a little bit about the realities of running a financial planning business, being a financial advisor, being a mother.
• 37:30
  Sam Oakes: You know, is it coffee mornings and pilates and I'm just saying so stereotype?
• 37:35
  Sam Oakes: So sorry.
• 37:36
  Tammy: Well, I mean, that is normally.
• 37:37
  Tammy: Um, I mean, I think that's networking.
• 37:42
  Tammy: It's business.
• 37:45
  Tammy: Um, you know, like today, I had to ask you to move this time back because both my children have gone on a school residential trip and both need to be in two different places at two different times.
• 37:56
  Tammy: One of my children just had surgery 10 days ago, and so I had to pretty much work from home last week and clear the diary.
• 38:03
  Tammy: And, you know, um, so from that point of view, I'm affording myself a significant degree of flexibility.
• 38:11
  Tammy: Equally, it wasn't completely tools down last week.
• 38:15
  Tammy: You know, I still had to rope in grandparents, and my husband's actually had to go even further part-time in order to support the family dynamic as the as the business continues to grow and I get busier.
• 38:26
  Tammy: And so, you know, we're both normally exercising in the morning, school runs in the morning, walking the dogs in the morning, because I think if we don't get it in early doors, we then don't tend to get it done.
• 38:37
  Tammy: So we we we aren't both in before 10, half 10 sometimes.
• 38:43
  Emma: Yeah.
• 38:44
  Tammy: And then we can both be finishing around sometimes, it's three if we don't have childcare after school, if there's things we want to do.
• 38:51
  Tammy: And then, you know, for me, I'm I'm a real night out.
• 38:54
  Tammy: I I can be working till midnight, 1 a.m.
• 38:58
  Tammy: Um, and that's the kind of reality of if I've taken an hour or two hours out to pick the kids up and make dinner, I'm back at the laptop for another two, three hours in the evening.
• 39:09
  Emma: So I think, yeah, that's the beauty of it.
• 39:12
  Emma: I think it's not for everybody.
• 39:14
  Emma: Um, you know, there's times, you know, especially taxy rent and stuff like that where we are working a lot harder more intensely.
• 39:21
  Emma: And it's just about adapting and being flexible and you know, appreciating that we've got to get a job done.
• 39:27
  Emma: We are very lucky to be able to do that around our children and have that flexibility and trust between us.
• 39:33
  Emma: Um, but we also, you know, we won't drop a ball if a client needs something, we'll be there, we'll make changes, we'll adapt.
• 39:40
  Emma: And that's what's really important.
• 39:42
  Emma: We're not rigid, we're not like I keep going back to this nine to five.
• 39:45
  Emma: There isn't a nine to five for us, but we make it work for us, but we do it in a way that we're still working extremely hard and you know, either working late or you know, maybe picking up things over the weekend or working on holiday.
• 39:59
  Emma: Like we're you know, we always are on it.
• 40:01
  Emma: I don't think we ever I've never put my phone down and been like, oh, I'm just not gonna check it for a few days or whatever.
• 40:08
  Emma: Like we've got a job to do, we need to be accessible.
• 40:10
  Emma: It's just a different way.
• 40:12
  Tammy: And that and we want that to change, to be honest.
• 40:14
  Tammy: You know, um, I've you know, as I've talked to Emma about this as she's sort of newer into her journey.
• 40:19
  Tammy: You know, these first early years of building a business are harder.
• 40:24
  Tammy: You know, lots of businesses fail within the first few years.
• 40:28
  Tammy: Many, many businesses don't survive 10 years.
• 40:31
  Tammy: And I'm, you know, I'm the main earner in my household.
• 40:35
  Tammy: I've picked this as something I plan to do for the next 20 years.
• 40:40
  Tammy: I don't really have an option for this not to work, and therefore that means at the moment it's it is 24-7, really thinking, you know, that and and I said to you, you know, my husband has taken a step back in his career in order to sort of facilitate our lifestyle.
• 40:57
  Tammy: Emma has to draw and a lot of resources from you know her her family too.
• 41:02
  Tammy: And there are times when my children will say, You're always working, mum, you know, and I've got a picture at home that my son drew and it says work boss, work mum boss.
• 41:12
  Tammy: And you know, it's a really kind of cute picture, but equally there's a little bit of a stab to me in the heart around.
• 41:21
  Emma: I think though, so that's been something that has always played on my mind, you know.
• 41:25
  Emma: But then I also counteract that in my mind with actually I want my son to see me growing up, him, you know, him growing up, seeing me working and you know, building this career for myself.
• 41:36
  Emma: I want him to have that as his mum, you know, and be proud of that and appreciate that that's how life is, right?
• 41:42
  Emma: So, you know, I think it's really important to also take that into account, like what added benefits you're bringing to your children.
• 41:48
  Emma: Not, you know, you know, we might not always be there, but we are there enough.
• 41:52
  Emma: We're still supportive, we're still good mums, but we work as well.
• 41:55
  Emma: And that's that's good, that's positive.
• 41:58
  Tammy: It's the questions you get though, like who's looking after the kids?
• 42:00
  Tammy: And you're like, the dad.
• 42:02
  Tammy: I don't know, I don't know right now.
• 42:04
  Tammy: Somebody, the neighbor.
• 42:05
  Tammy: Exactly.
• 42:06
  Tammy: Oh, isn't he in a friend?
• 42:08
  Tammy: Yeah, YouTube's a bit after my child went.
• 42:11
  Emma: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:12
  Emma: The iPad.
• 42:13
  Sam Oakes: I think it's a I think it's a real shame though, it that we are uh made to feel one way or the other.
• 42:18
  Emma: Yeah.
• 42:18
  Sam Oakes: If you're not working, then you should be shamed.
• 42:20
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 42:20
  Sam Oakes: If you if if you're not looking after your kid, you should be shamed.
• 42:23
  Sam Oakes: I must admit though, if I look in my back on my I'm 43, my daughter's nine.
• 42:27
  Sam Oakes: Um I think you do have to be careful.
• 42:31
  Sam Oakes: The more work you put in, the less time you spend with your family.
• 42:33
  Sam Oakes: It's a simple as to me.
• 42:34
  Sam Oakes: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Sam Oakes: Female, male, whatever.
• 42:36
  Sam Oakes: And if I look back at when my daughter was she was being dropped off at my recruit, I own my recruitment company and I had my own hours and I did what I wanted.
• 42:44
  Sam Oakes: I may not have earned as much.
• 42:45
  Sam Oakes: I didn't.
• 42:45
  Sam Oakes: People thought I did.
• 42:46
  Sam Oakes: I didn't earn that much.
• 42:48
  Sam Oakes: Um, but I had a lot of flexibility.
• 42:49
  Sam Oakes: So my daughter would be dropped off to me in the afternoon and she read like an office baby for years.
• 42:53
  Sam Oakes: And everyone loved it.
• 42:54
  Sam Oakes: And then when she started going to school, the school was around the corner from the office.
• 42:57
  Sam Oakes: So I used to go out there and sit in the park and talk to the other mums and so the mums and the the dads in the park while she played in the park.
• 43:02
  Sam Oakes: And I look back on that and I just think, oh my god, I'm so glad I had that time with her.
• 43:06
  Emma: Yeah.
• 43:06
  Sam Oakes: And I sound like I've not had it.
• 43:08
  Sam Oakes: Where I have been hyper focused on work, I've got two, I'm run the financial plan of life, and I'm head of creative for another company.
• 43:16
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, it's suffered massively.
• 43:17
  Sam Oakes: And I spend less time with my daughter.
• 43:19
  Sam Oakes: Do I feel guilty for it?
• 43:21
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, I do.
• 43:21
  Sam Oakes: And I and I have to work that out.
• 43:23
  Sam Oakes: I have to weigh that up.
• 43:24
  Sam Oakes: That's it.
• 43:25
  Sam Oakes: Because I miss those opportunities where I just connected with her where I could.
• 43:32
  Tammy: Does that make sense?
• 43:32
  Tammy: Absolutely.
• 43:33
  Tammy: We've had this conversation recently where both of us have kind of committed to like real hard work to make this a success for us and our families.
• 43:43
  Tammy: I thought we're we are building opportunities within the business to bring other people in to support us to take some of the admin load off.
• 43:49
  Tammy: We're trying to lean into AI to also reduce our kind of load and increase our capacity.
• 43:54
  Tammy: But what we've also both, you know, said is a kind of goal for us is to have extended breaks, have all the holidays off, you know, so a good three, four weeks in the summer, both weeks at Christmas, both weeks at Easter, in terms of we're we're making this kind of commitment, I suppose, to being really involved in the business during the school hours and the school weeks in order to afford us then this real downtime when the kids are around.
• 44:24
  Sam Oakes: So you're building what you're doing together is basically building culture, aren't you?
• 44:28
  Tammy: Yeah.
• 44:29
  Sam Oakes: You're playing around at the moment.
• 44:30
  Sam Oakes: You're working it out.
• 44:31
  Sam Oakes: Like, how far can we push ourselves?
• 44:33
  Emma: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Sam Oakes: You know, if we do push ourselves, what's the reward of pushing ourselves?
• 44:37
  Sam Oakes: It's not to push yourself even further.
• 44:38
  Sam Oakes: You're actually talking about like, well, how can we have more time off?
• 44:41
  Sam Oakes: How can we be flexible, more flexible with our time?
• 44:43
  Sam Oakes: Can we have extended holidays?
• 44:45
  Sam Oakes: So there is that kind of conversation happening now as you start to develop and build that business, you're building the cultural framework.
• 44:52
  Tammy: And we're doing it for the team as well.
• 44:54
  Tammy: So I've just rewritten our um client servicing manager's contract so that she can work um compressed hours during the school holidays and um and and not the lot the sorts she does four days a week during term time, and then during school holidays, we've compressed it down to two long days so that she can have three days a week fully with her kids and two longer days where her her mum and dad are prepared to help.
• 45:19
  Sam Oakes: That's the beauty of a smaller business.
• 45:21
  Tammy: Yeah, isn't it?
• 45:22
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, you can be flexible, you know, you can change things.
• 45:26
  Sam Oakes: It it can be done.
• 45:28
  Sam Oakes: You can treat people as individuals.
• 45:29
  Sam Oakes: I think as businesses become bigger and bigger and bigger, it becomes more difficult.
• 45:33
  Tammy: Absolutely.
• 45:34
  Tammy: And we've and we appreciate that.
• 45:35
  Tammy: And and you know, that's a conversation that's ongoing for me in terms of what I'm trying to build, you know, what what what what's Emma's role within that?
• 45:43
  Tammy: What does this look like?
• 45:45
  Tammy: I don't want growth for growth's sake.
• 45:47
  Tammy: I I've got my name above the door.
• 45:49
  Tammy: I'm growing this business in my hometown, it's got my children's name on it.
• 45:54
  Tammy: I want this to be a business that I'm proud of.
• 45:56
  Tammy: And in 20 years' time, I can look back and say that I did my best work, I helped people, I did everything that we said we were going to do in terms of supporting others and educating people and empowering people and you know, and being active and visible in the community.
• 46:11
  Tammy: So if that means we stop at this size business, then that's what we'll do.
• 46:16
  Tammy: But you know, I think ultimately the reason I haven't grown exponentially despite having opportunity is it has been about definitely meaning, yeah, finding the right people to join the business and continue that culture.
• 46:27
  Sam Oakes: Well let's talk about that then.
• 46:28
  Sam Oakes: Just we'll end on that because you've both been involved with the St.
• 46:32
  Sam Oakes: James's Place Academy in in different ways.
• 46:35
  Sam Oakes: How can we attract more women?
• 46:39
  Sam Oakes: Who is who is the Academy when it comes to women, for example, let's talk about women.
• 46:45
  Sam Oakes: Who is right for the academy?
• 46:48
  Sam Oakes: You know, let's let's talk about that as well.
• 46:50
  Emma: Like Yeah, I think for me, um I think anybody who has maybe had a career break, um, who, you know, has raised a family, or somebody that has been through like a life transition, or they're looking to upskill themselves, you know, maybe they work in the industry.
• 47:14
  Emma: I think the academy gives you the support and the structure for that.
• 47:18
  Emma: I think if you are somebody, um I think so.
• 47:23
  Emma: For me, you have to be kind of driven, have empathy.
• 47:27
  Emma: Empathy is a massive thing.
• 47:28
  Emma: Empathy and trust with financial planning is huge.
• 47:31
  Emma: And like we've touched on this as well, you need to be resilient because there's a lot of uncertainty.
• 47:36
  Emma: You've got to handle a lot of rejection in the early days.
• 47:39
  Emma: Um, so you know, having a good home to go to, having a good mentor who can kind of, you know, say it's okay, it's normal, you know, all those things.
• 47:50
  Emma: I think then the academy is really great for you because it can teach you all the kind of skill set around that.
• 47:58
  Emma: If you've got that right attitude and you want to help people, you've got interpersonal skills, that's a kind of right fit for women who are looking to kind of move into financial advice.
• 48:08
  Emma: Okay.
• 48:09
  Tammy: I'd say the same, you know, male or female.
• 48:11
  Tammy: It's someone that, you know, I say is first and foremost a people person that finds passion and purpose in getting up every day and helping people.
• 48:20
  Tammy: Then, you know, obviously having the level of intelligence to pass the exams and but it but more importantly, to be able to articulate that information, to be able to listen to somebody deeply and then translate the information that you have in your head into something that's clear and meaningful for that person.
• 48:38
  Tammy: So good communicator, great listener, empathetic.
• 48:42
  Tammy: Yes, you know, it's hard work, um, a level of resilience.
• 48:46
  Tammy: Um, I think, you know, a level of well, a huge amount of trustworthiness.
• 48:53
  Tammy: Being authentic, though, that was the biggest problem I found for people that came through the academy, is that they weren't being their authentic selves, and it shows.
• 49:03
  Emma: Yeah, I totally agree with that.
• 49:05
  Sam Oakes: Yeah, talk about that then.
• 49:06
  Sam Oakes: So, how give somebody some advice of how to show up?
• 49:12
  Tammy: Well, I think this kind of goes a little bit back to the, you know, writing your business plan and thinking about what it is that you want to be getting up and doing every day.
• 49:22
  Tammy: You know, I I see lots of financial advisors on their LinkedIn profiles talk about helping ultra high net worths and you know, helping the high net worth community, and great, but like, you know, who is walking around potentially calling themselves a high net worth?
• 49:39
  Tammy: And, you know, if you're in a room of financial advisors and you're all there looking for the elephant, you know, you're all hunting with the same person.
• 49:50
  Tammy: And I just did not want to do that for the next 20 years of my life.
• 49:55
  Tammy: I just knew that I could get up and talk about wanting to help the people that were like me, you know, they probably are starting to earn well.
• 50:04
  Tammy: They're therefore starting to see more tax, they're therefore starting to see more punitive tax regimes in terms of losing childcare hours.
• 50:11
  Tammy: They're probably having conversations around which one of us is gonna push on in our career and which one of us is gonna step back.
• 50:17
  Tammy: And I think for me, talking to some of my female clients who have had to make the same decisions with their husbands, been had to sit in a room with someone who doesn't judge them for making a decision to kick on with their career whilst their husband steps back, for them it's like super refreshing.
• 50:29
  Tammy: And so I think if I can turn up at work and be my authentic self, A, I want to get up every day and do this, but B, I think I could just come across way better.
• 50:39
  Tammy: And therefore, um, and therefore, like, you know, a hard day isn't quite as hard as for someone else who's kind of faking it every day.
• 50:47
  Emma: Yeah, people buy people, don't they?
• 50:48
  Emma: So there's no point trying to be somebody you think you should be.
• 50:51
  Emma: You know, there's a lot of pressure for women perhaps to have that kind of more aggressive approach, um, just trying to keep up with maybe the male kind of classic male financial advisor that we, you know, all used to.
• 51:04
  Emma: And I think that's a mistake, you know.
• 51:06
  Emma: You just just be yourself, be the mum, be the friend, you know, be the sister, you know, be just be somebody that you can relate to.
• 51:14
  Emma: I think that is just the key thing.
• 51:16
  Sam Oakes: Oh, love it.
• 51:17
  Sam Oakes: And a fun final question.
• 51:19
  Sam Oakes: So you you're you're building your careers within financial planning.
• 51:22
  Emma: Yeah.
• 51:23
  Sam Oakes: And I ask this to both of you.
• 51:24
  Sam Oakes: Emma, you can go first.
• 51:26
  Emma: Thanks.
• 51:26
  Sam Oakes: What's the legacy?
• 51:28
  Emma: The legacy.
• 51:29
  Emma: Um the legacy for me is feeling that I have genuinely helped people and made a difference in their lives so that they have the peace of mind and the confidence, you know, that they can kind of just go and enjoy themselves.
• 51:46
  Emma: Um, and also, you know, family side as well, my son, my family, that we're building this amazing business that is going to have a legacy for them.
• 51:58
  Sam Oakes: Okay, cool.
• 51:59
  Sam Oakes: Tell me.
• 52:01
  Tammy: Yeah, same.
• 52:02
  Tammy: Um, I I want to have something that I'm proud of that um that has been a I kind of echo everything Emma said really.
• 52:13
  Tammy: I I put on my business plan that I wanted to educate people, I wanted to empower people, and I wanted to enable people to get really good financial advice.
• 52:22
  Tammy: And you know, I want that to be the case for all of my clients.
• 52:26
  Tammy: I also want to be able to work around my family commitments.
• 52:31
  Tammy: And um, I don't want to be, you know, it's not, as I said, it's not to all extremes.
• 52:37
  Tammy: This is not about building the biggest, most profitable, you know, firm just for the sake of it.
• 52:43
  Tammy: Um, but yeah, I think I think if I can if I can finish my career having spent the last 20 odd years with passion and purpose, then it would have been a career worth lived.
• 52:56
  Sam Oakes: So I love it.
• 52:57
  Sam Oakes: On a final note, you said earlier about you can't put a job advert out just specifically asking women to join.
• 53:02
  Sam Oakes: But what you can do is talk about your business and who is in it and what you are building and what the culture's like.
• 53:08
  Sam Oakes: So indirectly, you don't have to say specifically, I want women.
• 53:11
  Sam Oakes: There's a lady called Sarah Tucker, um, and she's got a company called The Mortgage Mum.
• 53:16
  Sam Oakes: She was actually she was on The Voice.
• 53:18
  Sam Oakes: Remember the voice?
• 53:18
  Sam Oakes: Which got really far.
• 53:20
  Sam Oakes: Wow.
• 53:21
  Sam Oakes: And then she um uh I think it was the light semis or something, she got she got knocked out and she was absolutely devastated.
• 53:26
  Sam Oakes: But within that actual episode, she had this vision of building this mortgage advice company for mothers.
• 53:34
  Emma: Yeah, the mortgage mum.
• 53:36
  Emma: Yeah.
• 53:37
  Sam Oakes: And she's on TV and all sorts now, and she came on my podcast when I very first started it up, and she's a super duper success now.
• 53:42
  Sam Oakes: What I take from that is that you just lean into what you know, you lean into what you love, and you lean into who you know, and you talk about the things and the problems that people might have within their careers and what they're searching for and how they're looking to live their lives with purpose and balance.
• 53:58
  Sam Oakes: And it sounds to me that you've got the seed to do exactly that within financial planning.
• 54:02
  Sam Oakes: And if you follow that path, it's only gonna bloom into a wonderful flower, an opportunity for other women like yourself.
• 54:10
  Sam Oakes: So it sounds to me like you're on the right path.
• 54:12
  Sam Oakes: You don't have to try to play by the rules, just play by purpose.
• 54:16
  Emma: Exactly.
• 54:17
  Emma: Yeah, we agree.
• 54:18
  Sam Oakes: Great stuff.
• 54:19
  Sam Oakes: Well, ladies, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Plan Life podcast.
• 54:21
  Sam Oakes: It's been awesome to hear about your career.
• 54:23
  Sam Oakes: Um, and um I'm sure you're gonna be an absolutely huge success, so I don't need to say good luck.
• 54:28
  Emma: Thank you very much.