Latest / Reformed Thinking / Brothers, We Are Not Professionals | John Piper

Transcript

Brothers, We Are Not Professionals | John Piper · Reformed Thinking

0:00
Podcast intro Jingle Reformed thinking.
0:02
Hello and welcome to the Deep Dive.
0:04
This is where we take various sources, articles, maybe some
0:07
research notes you might have, and really boil them down to the
0:10
essential insights. Right.
0:12
The idea is to give you a quick way to get up to speed, maybe
0:15
with some interesting facts, a bit of wit.
0:17
Keep things engaging. Yeah, and each deep dive like
0:20
this one is really put together for you, the listener we're
0:22
trying to be your guide through the material, help you figure
0:25
out what really counts. And today we're digging into a
0:28
collection of thoughts, arguing, actually, that are pretty
0:31
stirring. They center on the calling of
0:34
Christian ministry itself. We're looking at John Piper's
0:37
book Brothers We Are Not Professionals and also some
0:41
reflections from other pastors reviewers.
0:45
A focused look, really. So this deep dive, it's really
0:47
about a strong plea for pastors to, well, reject this thing
0:50
called professionalism. Right.
0:52
And instead to embrace something truly spiritual, supernatural,
0:56
selfless, a different way of viewing their divine vocation.
1:01
We're going to try and unpack what Piper actually means by
1:03
professionalism. You know the old versions and
1:05
maybe the newer ways it shows up.
1:07
Yeah, and why he thinks it's such a danger, a real hazard.
1:10
And then what does he suggest instead?
1:13
What's the authentic Christ centered way for pastors to live
1:16
and, you know, do their ministry?
1:19
Our mission today really is to uncover those foundational
1:21
principles for a ministry that genuinely honors God.
1:25
Something that moves beyond just worldly standards or metrics.
1:29
Got it. So let's start there.
1:30
This term professionalism in the pastorate.
1:33
We hear it. But what are Piper and these
1:36
sources really getting at? Yeah, what does it actually mean
1:39
here? Because it's not just about
1:40
being like sloppy or incompetent, is.
1:43
It. No, not at all.
1:44
It's way more subtle and the sources point out something
1:47
quite telling, actually. Yeah, what's that?
1:49
That the pressure to make the pastor it a profession, quote UN
1:52
quote, it hasn't vanished, right?
1:55
If anything is just shifted, it's morphed.
1:58
Maybe even gain ground. Especially, they say, among
2:01
younger pastors. So it's still a live issue, just
2:04
looks different now. Seems so it's like this
2:06
persistent challenge, always evolving but keeping its its
2:10
core danger. It feels like that human pull
2:13
towards relying on ourselves, on worldly ways of doing things
2:17
rather than on God, is. Deep.
2:21
That makes sense. So it's not static.
2:22
How did it used to look this old professionalism?
2:25
Well, the source is kind of paint a picture of the old
2:28
professionalism as maybe what you'd first think of a bit
2:31
stayed perhaps think three piece suits and stuffy upper floors.
2:36
That's the image used. It was often tied to these more
2:39
therapeutic and managerial ways of doing ministry.
2:43
OK, I can picture that like running the church, like a
2:45
business, almost strategic plans, maybe some secular
2:48
counseling techniques thrown in. Sort of, yeah.
2:51
Aiming for a certain kind of corporate respectability, an
2:53
outward appearance of order, capability, maybe even control.
2:56
Right, like a spiritual CEO. Yeah, but maybe lacking some
3:01
vitality. Possibly that's the critique and
3:03
overstated style Perhaps. OK, so that's the old way, But
3:06
you said there's a new professionalism now affecting
3:09
younger pastors. How is that different and why
3:12
call it understated? Yeah, the new version is much
3:14
more subtle, less obvious. Instead of the suit, think torn
3:19
blue jeans in the savvy inner ring.
3:21
Interesting contrast. It's less about getting an NBA
3:23
say, and more about just being current, being in the know about
3:28
the ever changing entertainment and media world.
3:31
So it's shifted from organizational management to
3:35
cultural relevance being relatable.
3:38
Seems like it, yeah. It's like wanting to be fluent
3:40
in the culture, connect with people where they are, maybe
3:42
like a market researcher trying to catch the vibe of society.
3:45
OK, so the goal isn't just respectability anymore, but
3:48
maybe relatability, relevance, seeking the language.
3:52
That seems to be the focus. The sources suggest the
3:54
discussion among younger pastors is less about therapy or
3:58
management. And more about.
3:59
More about how you communicate, how you fit into a specific
4:02
cultural setting. There's this quiet pressure,
4:05
they say, to be as skilled as the pros in media.
4:08
Like who? Specifically mentioning the cool
4:10
antiheroes and the most subtle comedians.
4:13
Wow, so it's about being captivating, holding attention
4:16
like a performer, maybe even a bit edgy.
4:19
Potentially, yeah, crafting the message, the persona to get a
4:22
hearing sometimes maybe sanding off the rough edges of
4:27
countercultural truth to do it. And how does that affect the
4:29
actual, you know, feel of things with church service, how pastors
4:34
interact? It sounds very deliberate.
4:36
It does. This new professionalism gets
4:38
into the whole atmosphere. The way you talk, the words you
4:41
use, the timing, the back and forth, the.
4:42
Banter in ministry. That's the term used, and it's
4:46
described as more intuitive and less taught, more style and less
4:50
technique, more feel and less force.
4:53
So trying to seem natural, effortless, organic.
4:56
Right, but it's still coming from a professional mindset,
4:59
just a different flavor of it. It's like curating A vibe, being
5:02
effortlessly cool and culturally aware.
5:05
And the danger is that the spirits genuine work might get
5:08
pushed aside for human cleverness.
5:10
That seems to be Piper's concern, yes.
5:11
OK, so we have the old style suits managerial and the new
5:14
style jeans. Media savvy, intuitive feel.
5:17
They seem worlds apart on the surface.
5:19
They do look different. But you said, Piper argues, they
5:22
share something fundamental, something that really matters.
5:24
Yes, he says. They share everything that
5:26
matters. Strong words, so.
5:28
What is it? What's the common thread?
5:30
The common denominator, the real problem according to Piper, is
5:33
this underlying idea, The idea that professionalism, whether
5:37
old or new, carries the connotation of an education, a
5:40
set of skills, and a set of Guild defined standards that you
5:45
can achieve without faith in Jesus.
5:48
That's the heart of it then. That's the crux.
5:50
It doesn't matter if it's a suit or jeans and MBA or media
5:54
smarts, if the core skills can be learned and used apart from
5:58
real spiritual reliance, apart from Christ.
6:01
Then it falls into this dangerous category of
6:03
professionalism. Right, it implies human ability
6:06
is enough. Human skill versus divine
6:08
anointing. So if these skills can be
6:11
developed without faith, what does that do to the whole idea
6:14
of ministry being supernatural? Well, it guts it, doesn't it?
6:17
This is the critical distinction.
6:18
Piper Hammer's home professional, in this sense, is
6:22
not supernatural. Operates on the human level.
6:24
Entirely human ability, training, cleverness.
6:27
But the sources insist, and Piper insists, the heart of
6:31
ministry is supernatural. So professionalism is working on
6:35
a completely different plane than real dependence on God, on
6:38
the Holy Spirit. Exactly.
6:40
True ministry relies on God working through someone, not
6:44
just someone performing learned skills.
6:46
Well. It's God's action, not ours,
6:48
that yields true spiritual fruit.
6:50
OK, I see the divide. So when ministry starts being
6:53
driven by the secular skills, even if the intentions are good,
6:57
what's the actual result? What happens to the spiritual
6:59
core? The consequence, Piper warns, is
7:02
significant professionalism pushes the supernatural center
7:05
more and more into the corner. Leaving what?
7:07
Leaving ministry as a set of secular competencies with a
7:10
religious veneer. Ouch.
7:13
Like a paint job on an empty building.
7:14
Sort of. The spiritual stuff becomes
7:16
marginal. Maybe just decorative ministry
7:19
gets reduced to something managed by humans, not fueled by
7:21
God. So the outward forms might
7:23
remain the programs, the sermons.
7:25
Right. But the spiritual lifeblood,
7:27
that dependence on God just slowly drains away, right?
7:30
Replaced by human effort, worldly ways of measuring
7:34
success. The supernatural becomes
7:36
optional, not essential. Precisely a nice to have, not
7:40
the absolute necessity and driving force.
7:42
A beautiful empty shell, as you said.
7:44
OK, this distinction, it really leads Piper to ask some
7:48
challenging questions, doesn't it?
7:50
If ministry isn't a profession, what does that mean for the
7:52
day-to-day stuff? He doesn't just leave it at
7:55
definitions, he throws out these, well, provocative
7:59
questions to make us face what just cannot be professionalized.
8:03
Like what? Give us some examples.
8:04
Well, he asks, can you have professional praying?
8:07
Professional praying? What would that even look like?
8:10
Perfect words, good posture. Right.
8:12
It highlights the absurdity. Prayer is, you know, talking to
8:15
the living God. It comes from a burdened heart
8:17
to joyful heart seeking help. It's not a performance.
8:20
Not a technique you master. No.
8:22
Or how about this professional trusting in God's promises?
8:26
Wow, that hits right at faith itself.
8:28
Trust in God's Word isn't a skill you perform its reliance,
8:32
surrender. Absolutely.
8:34
Or consider professional weeping over souls.
8:37
Again, how could that be professional?
8:39
Weeping over souls suggests real compassion, genuine heartache
8:42
for the lost, brokenness over sin.
8:45
It's visceral, isn't it? Not something you learn in a
8:47
workshop. It flows from a spirit moved by
8:50
the reality of sin and need, animated by God's spirit.
8:53
Making it professional would kill its authenticity.
8:55
You'd be performative emotion, not real grief.
8:58
Spot on. Then he asked about professional
9:01
musing on the depths of revelation.
9:03
Which sounds like a deep, spiritually alive study of
9:06
Scripture, wrestling with truth, letting it sink in.
9:10
Yes, a spiritual grappling, a hunger for God's wisdom, not
9:14
just ticking a box for study time or trying to impress
9:17
someone. And he keeps going.
9:18
Oh yeah, Professional rejoicing in the truth, professional
9:22
praising God's name. These are supposed to be
9:24
spontaneous overflows of adoration, joy, gratitude,
9:27
wonder. Not things you do because it's
9:29
part of the job description. You don't get paid for sincere
9:31
praise. It's a spirit prompted response
9:34
from a heart genuinely moved. And this extends to spiritual
9:37
character traits too, right? Things like childlikeness,
9:40
tender heartedness. He asks, can you have
9:43
professional childlikeness, professional tender heartedness,
9:46
even professional panting after God?
9:48
Panting after God. That's Psalm 42 imagery, Intense
9:51
longing. Exactly.
9:52
A deep spiritual hunger. Childlikeness means humility,
9:56
dependence, trust. Tender heartedness is
10:00
compassion, being responsive to the Spirit.
10:02
These are fruits of the Spirit grown by grace.
10:05
Not professional certifications you earn through training.
10:08
They mark Christlikeness, not career advancement.
10:11
And Piper really pushes it, connecting it to the hard parts
10:14
of Ministry, the suffering side. He does.
10:17
He points to the call to deny yourselves and take up the blood
10:21
spattered cross daily. A stark image.
10:23
And then asks how do you carry a cross professionally?
10:25
You can't. It implies sacrifice, suffering,
10:28
maybe even shame. Nothing professional about that.
10:30
Or professional faith, or being filled not with wine but with
10:34
the Spirit, he asks. How can you be drunk with Jesus
10:37
professionally? Being drunk with Jesus sounds
10:40
like spiritual abandoned joy overflowing, not controlled
10:44
professional behavior, right? And even being a professional
10:46
clay pot, referencing Second Corinthians 4 where our weakness
10:50
shows God's strength. Again, the opposite of
10:53
professional polishing competence.
10:54
It's about humility, fragility, dependence.
10:58
All these things are just incompatible with the idea of a
11:01
polished, competent professional managing things.
11:04
They point to dependence, vulnerability, radical devotion,
11:08
things God gives, not things we manufacture.
11:11
It really drives home how applying a professional label
11:13
just doesn't fit these core spirit LED parts of a pastor's
11:17
life. So this conflict, the world's
11:20
agenda versus God's agenda. You mentioned it earlier.
11:23
Yes, the sources state it plainly.
11:25
The world sets the agenda of the professional man.
11:28
God sets the agenda of the spiritual man.
11:30
Meaning their goals, methods, even who they're trying to
11:32
please are fundamentally different.
11:34
Totally different. The professional looks to
11:36
worldly standards, societal values.
11:38
What the Guild says is success, maybe growth numbers, budget,
11:42
public image, cultural acceptance.
11:43
While the spiritual person. Their direction comes from God's
11:46
will, His commands. In Scripture.
11:48
Their validation is from God alone, not human applause or
11:51
hitting worldly targets. It's an unavoidable conflict of
11:54
loyalties. You can't serve 2 masters.
11:56
That's the idea. So what happens when that
11:58
worldly agenda starts to creep in, even subtly?
12:01
What's the real cost? You mentioned spiritual erosion.
12:03
It's described starkly. The pursuit of professionalism
12:07
is said to cause spiritual death.
12:09
It risks pastors becoming shallow in prayer.
12:12
Their talk with God becomes thin, maybe routine, not deep
12:16
wrestling. They become thin in our grasp of
12:19
holy verities, meaning their understanding of biblical truths
12:22
gets weak. Maybe they go for easy answers,
12:25
avoid hard doctrines, cater to popular tastes instead of deep
12:28
scripture. Less substance.
12:30
Less substance. They can become content amid
12:32
perishing neighbors, losing that urgency, that compassion for the
12:36
lost. Church Life becomes comfortable,
12:38
evangelism less pressing. And personally.
12:40
They can become empty of passion and earnestness in their
12:44
conversations They're preaching. The spiritual fire dims,
12:47
replaced by maybe just technique of routine.
12:50
And that's a sobering picture. And one of the most severe
12:53
warnings was about it killing a pastor's belief that they are
12:57
sent by God. Yes, that the love of
12:59
professionalism, right kills a man's belief that he is sent by
13:03
God to save people from hell and to make them Christ, exulting
13:07
spiritual aliens in the world. That's a huge shift in identity
13:11
and mission. It is instead of seeing
13:13
themselves as God's ambassador on an urgent mission with
13:17
eternal stakes. They start seeing themselves as.
13:19
Maybe a community leader, A good communicator, A manager whose
13:22
success is measured by attendance, social media likes?
13:27
And the gospel message itself gets diluted.
13:29
It has to, doesn't it? Yeah.
13:31
If the goal is parody with worldly professionals, then the
13:34
radical, often offensive nature of the gospel gets softened.
13:38
The pastor's ultimate loyalty shifts from God to maybe gaining
13:41
the world's approval. And the eternal stakes just fade
13:44
from view. Tragically diminished.
13:45
OK, so if ministry isn't supposed to be professional in
13:48
the sense, what is it? What's the true identity Piper
13:51
is calling pastors back to? He argues strongly that the
13:54
preacher is not a professional man.
13:57
His ministry is not a profession.
13:59
It is a divine institution, a divine devotion.
14:01
Divine institution, Divine devotion?
14:04
What does that mean practically? It points to its origin, it's
14:07
from God, not humans, and its purpose total devotion back to
14:12
God. It's not just another career
14:14
path set up by society. It's sacred, set apart,
14:17
operating differently than worldly jobs, right?
14:20
A pastor serves the King of Kings, not a board or a career
14:23
plan. So it demands a different kind
14:24
of person. What character traits are needed
14:27
for this kind of ministry? The language used is vivid.
14:30
Pastors are called to be God, besotted lovers of Christ.
14:33
God besotted, consumed by God, yes.
14:36
And the aroma of Christ, their very presence should radiate His
14:41
filled not with wine, but with the Spirit.
14:43
Their heart should be ever a thirst for God.
14:45
A constant, deep longing for God Himself.
14:47
An unquenchable spiritual thirst and single to God, meaning
14:51
undivided loyalty, all driven by a white hot devotion to Jesus
14:54
Christ. White hot devotion that speaks
14:56
of intense, pure passion for the Savior defining everything.
15:00
A devotion that burns away lesser things, worldly
15:04
ambitions. Christ has to be supreme.
15:08
This is so different from what the world values in leaders.
15:11
Strength, wisdom, honor. How does Piper describe this
15:15
countercultural role? He draws right from First
15:18
Corinthians 1. We are fools for Christ's sake,
15:21
but professionals are wise. A direct contrast.
15:24
We are weak, but professionals are strong.
15:27
Professionals are held in honor. We are in disrepute.
15:30
So embracing what the world sees as foolishness or weakness,
15:35
because true strength comes from God.
15:37
That's the idea, Not seeking worldly honor, but willing to be
15:40
disregarded, even shamed for the sake of the gospel, knowing God
15:45
uses the weak to shame the strong.
15:47
And this effects lifestyle too, right?
15:48
Not just perception. Absolutely true.
15:50
Pastors do not try to secure a professional lifestyle, but we
15:53
are ready to hunger and thirst and be ill clad and homeless.
15:56
That's a stark call to self sacrifice, readiness for
15:59
hardship. Very different from a
16:00
comfortable career. Worlds apart, they are servants
16:03
whom God has raised up to get down on the ground and
16:05
selflessly serve. Getting down on the ground, a
16:07
posture of humility. By leading God's people,
16:11
proclaiming God's truth, and earnestly contending for the
16:14
faith, service focused on God's people, God's truth, defending
16:20
the faith, not personal gain. And there's that sense of being
16:23
an outsider in the world not quite fitting in.
16:26
Yes, pastors and all believers really are described as
16:30
outcasts. We are aliens and exiles in the
16:33
world. Our real home is elsewhere.
16:35
Our citizenship is in heaven. We're waiting for the Lord's
16:38
return. That heavenly focus means our
16:40
identity isn't tied to this world's approval or systems.
16:44
And Piper says professionalism kills that longing.
16:46
He says it kills the affection for crisis appearing because it
16:49
roots your hopes and desires here in worldly success, not in
16:53
Christ's return and His eternal Kingdom.
16:55
It dulls that spiritual longing for home.
16:57
So why is this distinction so critical for the message itself?
17:00
For the gospel? What happens to the good news
17:02
when a pastor tries to be professional?
17:05
Well, the aims are different, Piper states.
17:06
The aims of our ministry are eternal and spiritual.
17:09
They are not shared by any of the professions.
17:11
Right doctors aim for health, lawyers for justice, business
17:14
for profit. But pastors aim for saving souls
17:17
from hell, building up Saints and holiness, glorifying God.
17:21
These goals transcend earthly understanding.
17:24
So the world just doesn't get it.
17:26
He says our goals are an offense.
17:28
They're foolishness to the world.
17:30
They don't fit worldly priorities.
17:32
They have to be spiritually discerned.
17:34
So trying to make ministry professional inevitably
17:37
compromises the message. It tries to make it acceptable
17:40
to a world that fundamentally doesn't understand its aims.
17:44
That seems to be the argument. Professionalization is a
17:47
constant threat to the offense of the gospel and to the
17:50
profoundly spiritual nature of our work.
17:52
It tries to make it palatable, less demanding, less
17:56
confronting. Yes.
17:57
So it might be more widely accepted by worldly standards,
18:00
but in doing that it waters down the call to repentance, to
18:04
radical faith in Christ alone, to being those Christ exalting
18:07
spiritual aliens. It smooths off the sharp edges
18:10
of truth, suggests human skill can replace the Spirit's work.
18:14
Exactly. It undermines the absolute
18:16
necessity of God's intervention and the urgency of salvation.
18:19
OK, so if professionalism is the wrong path, what is the right
18:22
path? What specific qualities?
18:24
What practices should pastors embrace instead?
18:27
Piper calls for a radical reorientation, a whole different
18:30
approach. He urges pastors to prioritize
18:33
things like passionate prayer, meaning heartfelt, fervent,
18:37
persistent communication with God, recognizing absolute
18:41
dependence. Not just a routine, but a
18:43
spiritual lifeline. OK, what else?
18:45
Poverty of spirit? A deep humility, knowing your
18:49
own spiritual need, your inadequacy apart from God's
18:52
grace. The opposite of professional
18:54
self-confidence. And a focus on God himself.
18:56
Yes, hunger for God. That deep longing for His
18:59
presence, His character, His will and appetites that drives
19:02
everything. Coupled with study.
19:04
Right rigorous study of holy things, diligent discipline.
19:07
Time in God's Word, not just for academic points, but as the way
19:11
God speaks. A spiritual necessity.
19:13
And at the center. A white hot devotion to Jesus
19:15
Christ. That intense single minded love
19:17
for the Savior that consumes everything else, burning away
19:20
lesser loyalties, worldly ambitions.
19:22
What about worldly things like money or status?
19:25
How do they fit? Or rather not fit.
19:28
He calls for utter indifference to all material game.
19:31
Utter indifference. That's strong.
19:33
It is a clear stand against seeking wealth or status through
19:36
ministry, finding contentment in Christ free from greed, and
19:41
finally, unremitting labor. Meaning just working hard.
19:44
Diligent, ceaseless effort, yes, but driven by divine purpose,
19:49
not the desire for a comfortable life or professional
19:51
advancement. Recognizing the eternal stakes.
19:54
And what's the goal of all this? This discipline, this labor,
19:57
What are they aiming for? It's aimed at 3 specific things
20:00
to rescue the perishing perfect the Saints and glorify our
20:03
Sovereign Lord. Eternal spiritual aims.
20:06
Those are the goals that define true ministry aligned with God's
20:09
purposes. Rescuing the perishing, Urging
20:11
evangelism, perfecting the Saints, discipleship, Building
20:14
believers up in holiness and truth.
20:16
And the overarching goal? Glorifying our Sovereign Lord,
20:19
everything must point back to God's supreme worth and majesty,
20:22
not human skill or reputation. Hearing this from Piper after
20:25
nearly 33 years as a pastor is quite something.
20:30
When he looked back on all those years at Bethlehem Baptist, what
20:34
did he regret? What stood out?
20:36
It's very revealing. He says explicitly that his
20:39
regret was not that he wasn't more professional.
20:42
So he dismisses that right away. It wasn't about missing worldly
20:45
standards, not having a bigger platform, lacking polished
20:48
skills. Not at all.
20:50
His regrets were in a totally different area.
20:52
Spiritual authenticity. Relational depth.
20:55
OK, So what were those regrets? What did he wish he'd done
20:57
differently after all that time? His regrets were about not being
21:02
more prayerful, wishing for deeper, more consistent
21:05
communion with God, recognizing more could have been done
21:08
through prayer. That makes sense.
21:10
Not being more passionate for souls.
21:12
Wishing for a stronger, more urgent heart for the lost.
21:15
Not being more consistent and personal witness.
21:18
Wanting a more active, open testimony in daily life.
21:21
And closer to home. Yes, not being more emotionally
21:24
engaged with my children, showing the huge value he placed
21:28
on family life and spiritual leadership there.
21:31
Not being more tender with his wife, highlighting the grace
21:35
needed in that closest relationship.
21:37
And relationally broader. And not being more spontaneously
21:40
affirming of the good in others, wishing he'd been more outwardly
21:44
encouraging, appreciative. A real mark of Christ, like
21:48
love. Wow, those regrets really under
21:51
score that it's the authentic spiritual and relational stuff
21:54
rooted in grace that truly matters in the long run, not
21:58
professional Polish. It's a powerful reflection from
22:00
someone who lived it for decades.
22:02
Where? Did this strong countercultural
22:04
view come from for Piper? Was there a particular
22:06
inspiration? He points specifically to EM
22:08
Bounds book Power Through Prayer says it was the spark that
22:12
ignited the fire of this book. Brothers, we are not
22:14
professionals. Bounds is known for his focus on
22:17
prayer and ministry. Very much so.
22:19
Piper read it early on, and it clearly cemented this conviction
22:22
about needing divine agency, not human cleverness.
22:26
He even quotes bounds directly. What's the quote?
22:28
God deliver us from the professionalizers, deliver us
22:32
from the low, managing, contriving, maneuvering temper
22:35
of mind among us. Wow.
22:37
A direct plea against human manipulation and control in
22:40
ministry, Yes. A longing for authenticity,
22:44
spiritual purity, total dependence on God over worldly
22:48
strategies and ambitions. So how did this message, this
22:51
sharp critique of professionalism, land with other
22:54
pastors and leaders? Was it well received?
22:57
Did it cause waves? Generally, the reviews describe
23:00
it as yes, challenging and convicting, but also hugely
23:04
valuable. It seems to have struck a deep
23:05
chord. Any specific examples?
23:07
Kevin Deyoung said he found it both rebuked and so encouraged
23:10
in his first year of ministry. He praised it's same practical
23:13
biblical advice. So tough medicine, but also
23:16
helpful guidance. Seems so.
23:18
It points out flaws, but also shows a constructive path
23:21
forward based on scripture. Does it get under the skin?
23:23
Address those deeper heart issues.
23:25
Apparently so. Like and Duncan mentioned, Piper
23:27
makes me uncomfortable because it exposed poses that
23:29
worldliness that so easily creeps into my heart.
23:32
It highlights those subtle temptations to compromise.
23:34
But not just negatively. No, Duncan also found it
23:37
comforting, exhortational, devotional.
23:40
He called it a faithful prophets call to the sons of the prophets
23:44
that mix. Again, challenging, yet calling
23:48
to something truer, better. What about its impact on younger
23:52
pastors or those in training? Has it shaped ministry
23:55
philosophies? JD Greer called it an absolute
23:58
must read for pastors in training, saying it shaped my
24:01
ministry philosophy early on. So it provides A foundational
24:05
way to think about ministry. Seems like it.
24:07
Daniel Aiken, a seminary president, called Piper a pastor
24:10
to pastors, saying the book challenges, instructs and
24:14
encourages those caring for God's people.
24:15
And Burke Parsons. Parsons described it as a book
24:18
for servants whom God has raised up to get down on the ground and
24:20
selflessly serve. He hoped it would ignite that
24:23
passion to deny oneself, take up the cross, reminding pastors of
24:27
that humble, sacrificing call. So strong endorsements about its
24:30
practical relevance. Very much so.
24:32
OK, but things change fast. New tech social media culture
24:37
shifts constantly. Does Piper think this message
24:40
against professionalism is still relevant today, or was it more
24:44
for a previous era? No, he's quite clear on this, he
24:47
states. Nothing has happened in the last
24:49
10 years to make me think this book is less needed.
24:53
Really. So the pressure is still there.
24:54
He says in fact, instead of going away the pressure to
24:58
professionalize the pastor, it has morphed and strengthened.
25:00
Morphed and strengthened? How so?
25:03
Well, as we discussed, the forms might change.
25:06
Maybe now it's pressure to be a social media star.
25:09
Build a personal brand. Chase growth strategies that
25:12
look more like entertainment than faithful teaching.
25:14
But the underlying danger is the same, relying on human methods
25:17
over God's grace. That's precisely his point.
25:20
The temptation remains constant, maybe even amplified by digital
25:24
culture. He sees the message as just as
25:26
urgent, maybe more so. And he had help getting the
25:29
updated message out. Yes, he credits David Mathis,
25:31
who was his assistant and is now at Desiring God, for helping
25:34
finish the new edition while Piper was still deep in pastoral
25:38
work. Which kind of proves the point,
25:40
doesn't it? Real ministry is demanding,
25:42
requires that singular focus. It certainly underscores the
25:45
reality of the calling he describes.
25:47
Well, this deep dive into brothers We are not
25:50
professionals really does make you stop and think about what
25:53
spiritual leadership is truly about.
25:55
It does. It's clear the message is that
25:57
real ministry isn't about human cleverness or worldly appeal.
26:01
It's something much deeper, much more radical.
26:04
Rooted in God's call, dependent on His Spirit.
26:07
Yes, it's a striking call to put God's agenda first, to embrace
26:11
that supernatural dependence that goes against our grain, and
26:14
to live a life marked by prayer, humility, total devotion to
26:18
Christ. Even if the world thinks you're
26:20
foolish or weak for doing so. Right.
26:22
It pushes all of us, really, to ask if our own pursuits in
26:26
ministry, at work, in life line up with God's desires, or if
26:30
we're subtly chasing the world's approval.
26:32
So thinking about this for yourself, our listener, where
26:34
might worldly standards be quietly influencing your
26:37
actions, whether you're in formal ministry or just seeking
26:40
to honor God in your daily life? How can you personally pursue
26:45
that white hot devotion to Jesus that paper talks about right
26:48
where you are? What would it look like for you
26:50
to consciously choose the eternal over the temporary in
26:53
your own calling? Lots to reflect on there.
26:56
We trust this deep dive has given you a fresh viewpoint and
26:59
perhaps a challenge to think more about what a truly God
27:02
centered life looks like, where His glory is the ultimate goal.
27:06
Podcast outro Jingle.