Latest / Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines / EP 2: This is What Patriarchy Actually Does to Men (And Why Nobody's Taking About It) (Ft. Tripp Fontaine)

Transcript

EP 2: This is What Patriarchy Actually Does to Men (And Why Nobody's Taking About It) (Ft. Tripp Fontaine) · Learned the Hard Way with Kier Gaines

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Learn the Hard Way. My name is Ki Ganes.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: We talk about purpose, we talk about pressure, we talk
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: about what it actually takes become a full comprehensive man. Hey,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: it was good job. Welcome back to another episode of
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Learning the Hard Way.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: My name is Ker Gaines. I'm your host. I am
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: a father, I'm a husband, I'm a podcast apparently, I'm
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: a social media content creator.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: I'm a licensed therapist. I got a million jobs. I'm tired,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: but I love everything that I do. And today is
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: no exception because if you read the.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Title, you know who's on the pod, and you know
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: what this conversation is about. You know, toxic masculinity.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Is it's such a weird thing to talk about because
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: it's oversimplified on social media. When we had a conversation,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: I feel like we flatten it, We make it too simple.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: But being a man and being a therapist and being
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: in this body, in this mind, and this experience, I'm
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: gonna tell y'all right now, we're gonna talk about a
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: lot today, So just buckle.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Up sitting there, let me get this off. Being an
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: experience from the.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Inside feels very different than what the observation is on
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: the outside.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I have two daughters. I have an eight year old
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and a four year old, and I remember when my
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: eight year old was about five, she saw a spider
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: on the ground and Shorty freaked out, freaked all the
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: way out, ah, running everywhere, hair on fire, like.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: A cartoon character. And instead of being sympathetic, I got mad.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: And the anger was prompted by the question, what the
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: are you screaming for?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Why are you so afraid? And I couldn't understand why
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: are you scared of a spider?
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: You're bigger than a spider, you know, all this intellectualizes
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: and logical stuff to rationalize why she was acting that way,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: And she just hid daddy because I'm scared. And I
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: don't know what clicked in me in that moment. I
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: was like, wait a minute, that actually kind of that
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: that makes sense. Why am I so mad that this
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: child is scared? And I realized that I was mad
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: that she was scared because I had to honor a
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: feeling in her that I was never able to honor myself.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I was never able to be afraid. My first thought was, Shorty,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: you're supposed to pretend you're not scared. That's the golden rule,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And what I've come to realize is that's the golden
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: rule for whom that's my introduction to what I thought
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: maybe toxic masculinity in myself. But the question is is
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: that toxic masculinity or is that just a symptom of
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: a traumatized little boy seeing the world through his lived
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: experience as a grown man? Something to think about, you know,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: as I don't know where we learn this, I don't
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: know where we get it from, and I feel like
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I need a big brain, another grown ass man, another
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: intellectual mind to sit with me and unpack this so
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: that we can all learn this together, and we could
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: take it from just being Internet taglines and catchy content
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: to a high level conversation that we can walk away
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: from with some real understanding. So, if you've seen the
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: title on the pod, you know today my guest is
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: none other than Trip Fontein. And when we first started
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: thinking the guests for this podcast, I think Trip might
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: have been the first person I recommended. You might have
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: seen him all over your social media. He's been a
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: part of viral content on panel discussions about relationships from
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the Tonight's Conversation crew when he breaks very complex topics
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: down to an atomic size. The brother is brilliant.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: He's a poet, he's a speaker.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: And I'm thankful to have his level of genius with
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: me today on the pod. So today as we traverse
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: the nasty streets of toxic masculinity and we break this
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: all down, my very special guest is gonna gonna help
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: us get through that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Let's get it. Truck was good with every brother. What's hunting? Bro?
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Man ain't nothing until let me give your flowers? Bro?
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Can I eat? Can I eat your bouquet real quick?
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: My boy? For sure? Man, alright, because I like to
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I like to get that out the way first. Man,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I've I'm respectful me. I won't be disrespectful to anybody.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: But they're not.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: They're not a lot of men in the public eye
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: that I have a profound amount of respect for respect.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: You got to earn it with me, bro, and I
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: have the most respect for especially men. When one you
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: can articulate a complex thought in a way that feels genuine,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: it feels authentic, not like you're trying to sell me
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: a course afterwards or you full of bullshit. And two,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: when you can disagree with women and not demean or
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: belittle them. I think that says a lot about your character,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: and I've noticed that in you, Bro, when you talk,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: it comes from a place of wanting people to understand,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: not just trying to get to catch you tight on,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: not just trying to get the internet around up.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: It gets the people going, yeah, you don't got all
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: of that. So I appreciate you, man, I truly truly
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: appreciate you, And can you please introduce yourself for the
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: people out.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: There first and foremost, thank you, bro, and a mutual respect.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: While we, I guess in this section of given flowers
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: man like you, we're in heavy rotation in the group
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: chat with me and the homies, man, one of the
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: friend groups that I have where we actually can unpack
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: these topics on the regular basis, you know, without shame
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: and judgment. A lot of what you shared, a lot
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: of what you posted, we you know, we built on that.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: So you know, it's an honor to even be having
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: this conversation. So so thank you for the acknowledgment and
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: for the space. Damn, man, I mean it's a lot
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: to me. Dog, thank you, nah for sure. As far
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: as myself, man, poet, educator, community organizer and the nigga
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: that really love black people bro in real life.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: And for me, it's one thing to say that because
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: you can, I mean in words, that doesn't take much
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: work to just say it.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: But I think, I think you show that.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: And one of the ways that I've been showing that
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I love black people, especially the ways I've been shown
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I love black men, because that's been it's been. That's
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: been a weird thing to traverse because growing up, you
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: don't show that you love black men.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: You show that you cool. You know.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: The love thing is funny because it gets attached to
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: sexuality and romanticism. It's never just a feeling that humans
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: have between one another. But this conversation of toxic masculinity
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: comes up often. And when I say I love black man,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I get caught in this cross heads of holding us
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: close and holding us accountable.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: If you hold us too accountable, folks think you're not
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: holding us close.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: If you should hold us too close, folks think you
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: not holding us accountable.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: And it's such a tough balance to strike. Man.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Uh, just if you could just give me your overall,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: your quick broad brush overview of how you see toxic masculinity, Man,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: how does it come across to you if I'm gonna
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: speak broadly to it, because it's hard to speak to
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: it without it's context. Right, the context that we operate
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: inside of toxic masculinity in another country may not look
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the same as it does here. But I think what
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: makes the masculinity toxic here is the need to define
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: itself off of making femininity subordinate as a paul to
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: acknowledging it as a present and equal force. The masculinity
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: we practice at a very basic level assumes a man
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: can because a woman can't or shouldn't, and that's a
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: toxic thought that its inception. So everything that comes from that,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: healthy as it may appear, has some form of that
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: toxicity in it. Now, let me meet you on that
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: for a second, because there is it is always a
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: comparative conversation. And I find it funny when even the
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: subject of women creeps into the concept of toxic masculinity,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: because the definition in and of itself, it has a
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: lot of different pillars, and one pillar has something to
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: do with women, but the rest of them are like
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: hyperindependence or suppressing of emotions or just having to dominate,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: not just women but dominate everywhere, and I'm very adamant
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: and very vocal about dominance in leadership. They're not the
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: same thing, right, and I think oftentimes they get conflated.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: But when I bring up toxic masculinity, especially around the
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: ros we in the group chat, whatever, the response is always.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, here we go with that bullshit. Yeah you know.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: And at first I used to get irritated by like, Bro,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to put you onto some real.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Shit and you're.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Getting defensive automatically. And then I had to stop and
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: actually think about the experience. Why are men reacting that
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: way to the word toxic masculinity? And I came to
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: realize this for a couple of reasons. One is because
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: the term has really been pathologized, and it's turned from
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: a set of behaviors that are harmful and maladaptive and
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: anti social that men demonstrate. It went from that to
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: just being an overall characterization of manhood, that manhood is
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: intrinsically toxic. Yeah, And that's and that's problematic because it
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: goes from trying to describe your behavior to trying to
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: describe your identity. Mm hm, And I can't I can't
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: see somebody not getting defensive, I think rightfully so, but
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: that that means that we still have to have a conversation.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So my question to you is, Bruh, why do you
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: think men get defensive when we start having this conversation.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Because we're doing what we're supposed to do.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Explain that to me.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: You attacking me for being exactly what I was told
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: a man supposed to be. Yeah, and all its ills
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: and all you how what the fuck is you coming
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: in me for? I'm supposed to suppress bad guy, right,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: you feel me. I'm supposed to suppress my emotions, that's
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: what you said. I'm supposed to to flow through the
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: women freely, that's what you said. I'm supposed to put
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: the money over my well being, that's what you said.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: And now that I'm the result of that, you want
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: to attack me for it. And that's what I'm saying.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: We do have to admit that here, And that's why
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: I said, it's hard to describe it if we say
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: manhood and just leave that as the overarching word, but
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: don't talk about American manhood, American patriarchy, white male patriarchy.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Then we are talking about every version of manhood that
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: could ever exist, including the healthy ones, and that is
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: a problem, which is why we have to properly contextualize
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: the conversation. You know what I'm saying, We're not just
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: talking about any old version of manhood. We're talking about
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: this one, the one we got, the one we consumptive,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: exact aggressive version. I'm saying it is a masculinity based
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: on dominance. You have to look at the inception of
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: this land and what they taught those men to be
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: in order to continue this project. They taught those men
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: to be vile, to be hard on those around them,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: to be individualistic, to see their their peers as competition.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: That was very antithetical to what we to our belief system,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: our practice is what we come from.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And so it still don't fit us.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, it don't work for them, but it don't
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: even fit us, you feel me, which is why it's
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: and for a black man specifically, right, I don't fall
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: so hard just to be seen as human, to be
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: seen as man, and so I went doubly hard, and
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: all the ship y'all said, y'all shared, y'all, y'all said,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: I should lord over my community, my nigga. I did
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: it with an iron fist wherever I could and whenever
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: I could. You said I should stand upright. I got
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: the broadest shoulders in here. You said we should dress well.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Ain't nobody ever did a suit like a nigga done
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: did a suit? You hear me like, like, we did
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: it all and now that we've achieved it, we found
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: some way at a societal level, whether it's in our
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: community or outside of it, to move the gold post
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: just two more yards. And that's the grace that we
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: have to get each other. That's the balances that we at.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: As wrong as the idea is, we were operating inside
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: of it, which means inside that idea, we weren't doing
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: anything wrong. The idea of being the problem and niggas
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: doing what they told. While it's a part of the
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: same conversation, them's two different bullet points. You feel me,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: we fought to be men. It's just that the idea
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: when when Martin Luther King said, I fear I've integrated
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: my people into a burning house. Right when he said that,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: you got to understand that that was an overarching statement
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: that we might have walked into some shit that's not healthy,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: that was already fucked up. We fought to be the
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: men and women that oppressed us. Bro, you have to
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: understand that we don't create the standard of manhood and womanhood.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: It's not enough of us for that. We may influence
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: what it looked like, like talk like, sound like, listen to,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: but what it's supposed to be, it's built on top
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: of its.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Bro.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: You're like, like, white is still a part of it,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: as unspoken as it may be what it actually means
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: to be a proper man here a proper woman, white
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: is still attached to that idea. And so we went
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: doubly hard. And now you're telling us it's not enough.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: We done got the bag. Now we got to be
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: emotionally intelligent too. And I'm not caping for the bullshit.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: I'll be going harder on men. It's just that that's
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: the grace that I have to give us, is that
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: I was an ignorant nigga at one point too. I
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: was a wild nigger. I was a gas station nigga.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I'm out the window with it. OHI land that on
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: when they pull up, you feel me?
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: So it what's up with it?
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: It's like, you know what I'm saying, so don't. I
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: don't necessarily get to come at niggas crazy. Now that
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: I know better, shit, I'm still unlearning.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: But you know what, though, Trip, I think that makes
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: you the perfect person for the message, because there is
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: you know it, man, it's a dual is sore. It's
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: on one side, you know, there is what do they
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: call it empathy, where there is this idea that men
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: who are bad actors in society can get copious amounts
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: of empathy if they appeal to the emotion human parts.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I'm a father, I'm a community leader. You could still
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: be a trash individual, you know what I'm saying.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I wrote. I've read a book written by one of
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the women in a black panther movement who wrote a
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: whole book about the sexual assault she faced within a movement.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: That was a hard book to read.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Br Some of my heroes were despicable creatures inside of
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: these very powerful movements. And that's the duality of it.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: You say when you say I did not build the system,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I can only operate within it. While in some ways, yeah,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: you get victimized by trying to gravitate towards this warm
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: center of like economic wealth and independence and all that shit.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: And that's cool, but you still got to take accountability
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: for all the blood you leave behind on your way
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: to prominence.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the easier thing to just say
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: in a thirty second clip than it is to contend
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: with when you are a real person in real life,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: and you're not just it's some character you're of a man.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: You're an actual person who has actual feelings. You have
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: family you're responsible for, you have community you lean into,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: you have spirituality that you lean into, and all these
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: things live within the same system that could be incredibly confusing.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the reasons why I because I
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: was never a wild nigga, I can't say I was wild.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Wow, I'm from the projects.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I've done my fair share of wiolent you fairt shall wilent,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: fair share.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Of not really understanding how to have relationships with women,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: necessarily fair share not understanding how.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: To wield power around and what that looks like, how to.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Reasonably hold power so that the people around you got
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: space too. Make sure if you will protect them and
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: provide you say, hold up, hold left, hold up, slap,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: hold up?
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Did the women and the kids eat everybody good? You know?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Not just leading from the front, but the middle of
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the pack as well.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: That's the difference between what leadership is, real power is
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: and what we taught it is. And that's owing to
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: the version of manhood we taught about. Right is you
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: taught to horrid power. But when you think about what
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: a bettery is actually supposed to do, it's supposed to
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: power other things. The more power you have, the more
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: those around you should be in power and feel in power.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: That's real serving leadership. That's not what I taught leadership is.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: You feel me like we taught leadership is all right,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: I delegate and tell everybody what to do around here,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: like I point my finger, I snapped my finger, clap
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: my hands, and I tell everybody to get it done.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: And sure, that is a version of leadership. And I'm
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: not saying every time that that version is unhealthy. That's
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: not fair. But what I will say is that again,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: when you think about what a real powerful thing is
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: actually supposed to do. The most powerful thing and our
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: solar system is the sun, that's right, and it gives life,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: just distribute. What do we think about what we could
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: realistically get a son?
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: What can you even give it? That brother?
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: So and still it does its job. They do exactly
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: what it's supposed to do without without acknowledging that we
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: hear or acknowledge. So if you're a powerful person, like
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: an actual powerful person with an I'm in power without
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: acknowledgment because that's I'm built for that. I'm legitimately built
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: for that. But that's not the manhood we taught to carry.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: It's not and it's not the manhood that we celebrate.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: And that's why it's compounded because you said something earlier.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: You're talking about you know, when you get a lot
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: of women, you get a lot of female attention, when
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: you the lowdest one in the room, when you got
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: the biggest muscle, when you're the most intimidating, you are.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Celebrated for those things. Man, you celebrated for them. And
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: it's hard to let.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Go of things that your community lifts you up for,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: even when you become a grown man and that shit
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: ain't working for you no more. So your brain don't
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: send you the signal that a I'm in a different
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: season in life, perhaps I should do things differently because
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: things have changed, And you just cruise through the intersection
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: at the same speed, not realizing the stop lights and
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: stop signs and kids walking in a crosswalk. You just
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: going because you're centrally focused on how good it feels
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: to be looked at, how good it feels to be
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: noticed and recognized and appreciated, three things that black men
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: don't always get. So when you get it for the
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: wrong thing, you don't question it. You just drink the
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: kool aid because the shits sweet, for sure. I don't
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: love that for us man. I do want to move on, man,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: because you potting right now. I don't know if you
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: know what you got word you ponder, my boy. I
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: want to talk about what men here when they hear
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: toxic masculinity, because we gotta talk.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: We touched on it a little bit. We touched on
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: it a little bit.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: But I think what's being said and what's being heard
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: ain't on the same frequency. So what is it that
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: you think men here when we start having this conversation.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I think that here, what's being said to him. I
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: don't think men are necessarily mishearing.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: We misspeaking in general, Like masculinity is not a human concept.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: So the moment we make it about man and make
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: men the exclusive vessels for masculinity, a concept which predates us.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Then we already miss speaking. So what's being said is
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: that you're doing manhood wrong. Is that your man is
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: unhealthy because you're you're not saying that just the masculine
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: part of you is unhealthy. That's not what's being said,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: and that's not the problem. The problem is a lack
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: of feminine presence. It's a it's an imbalance. So we're
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: not niggas are hearing it?
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: I say it what you are, You said what I
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: thought you said, and you do low key have me
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: fucked up, because that that reduces the size of the
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: entry point into a healthy conversation. You take us from
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: a door to a high window that now we're both
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: gonna have to climb through.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: High and small like one of the basement windows.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Because now you are actually attacking my identity, valid as
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: it may be. You are now attacking my identity by
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: attacking my manhood as opposed to attacking the imbalance of
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: energy there right, because the things that we say men
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: lack that that emotional intelligence to depth, those are feminine qualities.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: They are We're just gonna have to call that what
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: it is like when we look at the intrinsic qualities
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: of masculine feminine. You're talking about structure, you're talking about fluidity,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: you're talking about birth and the destruction. You're talking about
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: the actual life cycle when you're talking about masculinity.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Right, So when we're talking.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: About things like protection, covering something that's the womb, fam
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: that's feminine. We'll let men do that because we think
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: about it in an offensive way. When we think about protection,
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: we think about violence, fighting, but it's alarm goes off. Yeah, wisdom,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: that's feminine. You need wisdom to be an effective leader.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Dog.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: When we're talking about presence and being able to sense
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: your your even your lady, to sense your old lady
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: that something is off, that's a feminine quality. So we're
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: talking about imbalance. But when I say that, like your
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: masculinity toxic, I'm saying the way you do manhood, it's toxic.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Your identity, some part of you is toxic. I would
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: be defensive if somebody said that to me too.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and I think I me and you, man,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I gotta invite you back because me and you got
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: different philosophies on masculine and feminine to not derail because
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: you said something that made me think I'm a chew
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: on your perspective because I think you onto something. And
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: when I think about what men here, well, I think
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: about what I hear. I'm gonna just make it selfish
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: because you said there's an imbalance there, and I think
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: you're one thousand percent right. And when you say men
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: here was being said, I think you're a thousand percent
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: right man. Because there's one thing to have a reality
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: that you're having a hard time accepting, or you don't
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: see a trip, it's another thing to be crashed into
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: that reality at a thousand miles per hour for different things.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: It makes it hard to accept. So to me, toxic masking.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I think the reason that there's an imbalance is because
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I think some men here what's being said. But I
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: also think some men here what's not being said. And
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: with something with a subject like this, when I hear
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: toxic masculinity, I get away from theology pathologizing of it all,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: and I don't hear.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Masculinity as toxic.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I hear a man that is wounded and even like,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: for instance, the four pillars of toxic masculinity, harmful independence,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: emotional suppression, dominance, and harm towards women right, just me
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: is a therapist bro when I'm in a room with somebody.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: All of these are responses to traumatic events.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: And if you ever read Bill Hooks The Will to Change,
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: which I think is a brilliant book read, I think
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: it's chapter four about boyhood. It is a brilliant chapter.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I think I read it like eight or nine times.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: But she talks a lot about how men are pretty
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: much traumatized boys for the most and how even in
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: young boyhood we in order to make men tougher and
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: not make them soft because society hates a soft man.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: There's no use for a soft man in society. Become
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: we withhold love and warmth from them. And little boys,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: baby boys, and this is science back. Baby boys are
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: more needy, they need to be touched more. They cry
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: more than more emotional. And we always say man, women
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: are emotional. I had never seen nothing more emotional than
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: an angry man. It's just that we suppress our emotions.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: It's a complete difference. Women are just more comfortable with
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: emotional emotional expression. But when I see things like harmful
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: independence as a therapist, I think about abandonment symptoms. That
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: is a symptom of abandonment, that hyper independence, emotional suppression
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: that's learned internalizing behaviors. You learn to eat your feelings
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: because somewhere along the route you figure it out that
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: nobody cares about them, or nobody can help you solve them,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: or nobody's interested in helping you solve them.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Dominance.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Dominance is a true lack of self esteem. I look
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: at the leadership in our country right now, man, they're
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: obsessed with dominance. And I look at men who lack
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: self esteem. When I look at those men harm towards women.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: That's misplaced anger and rage. And we're gonna talk about
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: red pill content in a minute. But them boys be wilding.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I see them clips, man, and I shake.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: My head and I say, God, damn, this is what
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: the young men have to eat right now. I don't.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I can see through these bamas. I can see through them.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: But the young boys can't at all. They can't, and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: they believe that women are the reason that men are down.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: It's hold on, let's yeah, goode get it all, because
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: once we get on red pill, we ain't gonna be
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: getting able to get off of it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Just just I'll be quick. That's a tried and true
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: recipe like blame blaming women for the problem. So it's
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: not like you know what I'm saying, it's just podcast
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: new platform to do it all.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: That's all. I think.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: This after World War.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Two and before that.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: And the thing is, it's so easy to blame women
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: because if you look at society now, women have a
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: larger share of voice on the internet, so they talk
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: about their negative experiences with men. Depending on who you are,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: you might say at nauseum, but women are talking about
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: You can go anywhere and hear women talk about their
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: negative experiences with men. It is an entire wall of
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: sound with these things that are happening to them. They
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: they're not lying. This is really happening in a real time.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And if you listen to a rad Pill podcast and
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: he tells you you know feminism, how did I blank
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: on feminism? They first off, they act like all feminism
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: is the same. No, but they tell you feminism is
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: out here to kill men. Feminism is out here to
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: emasculate men and feminize men. And then you go on
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: TikTok and you hear fifteen female TikTokers in the rold
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: talk about men aren't lonely enough. Men aren't sad enough,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Men aren't committing enough suicide. That negativity bias creeps in
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: where you think that group of women represents more women
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: than it actually does, and now it's confirming the negative
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: thing that you already believe. And then the red pill podcasters,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: they're so sweet with the selling you candy in your
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: ear man because they get the prescription. They get the
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: diagnosis right, but the prescription wrong, and the diagnoses will
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: be like men, men don't feel powerful enough.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: That's true. Men don't have enough community. That's true.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Men opportunities that men had back in the fifty sixties,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: our grandfathers had, We don't have those to take care
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: of our families anymore.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Prescription is right, the diagnosis is wrong. It's women's fault. Wait,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: what hold on? You need to surround yourself with more women.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: You need to be having more sex. You need to
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: hit the gym, bro and have bigger muscles. You need
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: to read the forty eight laws of power, like whoa.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Hold up? Hold up? Dog? You missing, you're skipping some steps.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: It's my boy, all of them trip. I planned on
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: having this conversation later in the podcast, but fuck it.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: We here. Let's let's for.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Y'all that don't know what red pill content is. Damn,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: let's see if I can define it without yousing Google.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: So red pill content is a series of It's like
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: a content genre in the manosphere where male content creators
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: and podcasters say things that seemingly empower men or speak
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: to men's experience. But it's not steeped in healthy masculinity.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: It's steeped in performative masculinity. It often blames women for
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: the issues that men have.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: It often subjugates women, puts them down. You could see
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: some of these podcasts. It will be a guy at
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the table with like eight or nine young women around,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: and they'll say things like, you know, I need I
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: need my woman to be fit, fair and friendly, and
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: it dehumanizes the whole woman. That just bulls her down
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: to an accessory for your manhood.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, trip, I do that right? Did I miss something?
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: The only thing I would add is just this. What
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: makes it stick is the red pill concept. You remember
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: the matrix, right, there was the red and the green
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: pill blue or yeah, the red in the blue pill.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: And the red pill was like waking up this harsh truth.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: So that this started like by speaking to men harshly
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: and tell them you need to toughen up, you need
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: to do this, and like women this, and like the
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: violence against women and the bias towards women. Of course,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: while it was there, it started to creep in and
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: get louder and become But a lot of them feel
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: validated because again, this affirms that part of manhood that's
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: supposed to be tough, that's supposed to always be honest
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: and truthful. So like that they feel like they wake
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: up from the matrix by thinking this way, Like they
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: feel like this is the actual truth, or at least
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: that's the way it's presented and soul to gods.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that it gets compounded when I
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: go online and I look at these men's coaches that's
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: a popular thing now, and they rope you in like
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: dirty past Us from the eighties, bro where they just
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: trying to break you down.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Your wife left you because you're not mad enough.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: You'll never be the man she wants you to be
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: if you keep And they'll say something that men who
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: are having a hard time in life can identify with.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: And then they'll say something that's ridiculously prescriptive, like here's
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: what you need to do, and it'll just be like
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: a bunch of MACHIESE mo bullshit that makes you feel
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: good about being a man, Like they're parts of masculinity
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: that feels good. It feel good to be in the
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: gym and get big muscles and shit and walk around.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Don't nobody try you when you're big and you look
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: good in a tank top, when your back look all
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: the you're flexing the mirror.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: You're like, you'm filling myself, so that feels amazing.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Or when you got the house or the car you
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: want you it's a lot of finance talk. You know,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: you got the economic means to be exactly who they
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: told you you needed to be in order to be
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: a man.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: What's what's the joint called man?
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's what is six four brown eyes finance?
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: It was like a little song that was going on
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: on TikTok and it was like a woman's ideal man
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: and it the content is so captivating because one just
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: being around my wife, Bruh, she'll go out in public
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: and it's crazy like she got a publish.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Like yes body, yes man. The gods. Okay, Orange, okay,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Bob okay.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Here.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I have daughters, they get told they're beautiful all the time.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: And I have friends, I have sisters, I have cousins.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: My best friend is a woman. And it's just this
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: wall of affirmation that they get that does not exist
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: for us.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: So the second that a young man who's never been affirmed,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: never been told that his penis is anything but a
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: weapon of mass destruction, you know what I'm saying, who's
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: never been saying a bro, you're a beautiful person by
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: any man or any woman. The only time he's told
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: these beautiful is by a woman who wants to have
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: sex with him, or his grandma who's trying to make
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: him feel good because he ain't that cute. You know what,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: you have some baby, You know, he doesn't get those
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: touch points. He doesn't get touched unless he pays for it,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: or unless he has a woman that has that level
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: of affection for And then you get another man that
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: seems like what a man is supposed to be telling
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: you that the things that society are telling you that
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: you're tripping off of, it's legit when you say that
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: you're not. I don't feel loved as a man or
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: accept it. But he's not telling you that you're supposed
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: to be six y five with a fourteen inch penis
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: six pack, abs a trust fund three hundred thousand dollars
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: in account. He's not telling you that. He's telling you
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: you're fine just the way you are. And that's partially right.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: You still need to grow, bro. But what he's also
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: creeping in there messages about what you should be and
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: who the enemy is. Yeah, who the enemy of your
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: progress is, and oftentimes the enemy to the progress, it's women.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: And that's that's not that's wrong, that's.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Really so when when you when I when I spoke
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: earlier about where I where I thought the masculinity became toxic,
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: and I spoke about this misunderstanding of a masculine and feminine.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: If you look at the red Pill content and you
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: look at what the enemy is in that content, it's
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: all forms of femininity. Look at what they define, and
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: it's weak within the man. And so if a man
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: can't accept nurture, even relate to the feminine parts of hisself,
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: then he can't relate to that part of the woman.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: We taught to dominate those parts of ourselves that that
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: part of ourselves are the enemy. We have to suppress
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: that the same way we try to suppress women. So
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: so not only should you seek to be hard on
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: the hose, like stand on top of these women, you
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: should stand on top of your own feelings, stand on
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: top of your own healing.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Stand.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: On top of that, because they're not talking about healing
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: in that manisphere of shit. No, they told the nigga
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: to go through some push ups. He depressed, your wife left,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: you go and prove.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Your pr Yeah, nigga, go get your dead lift for him? Right, boy?
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, Like, like, so it's it's
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: not to say that it's not what you're saying. I
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: think that even if we got right with women, like
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: if the red pills left tomorrow, there's still another layer
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: within ourselves that that we have to address.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I'd argue there's several layers within ourselves that we need
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: to balance.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Value very valid them niggas all right, broh them cats losers, Doug.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, man.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to be podcastle correct man, but like niggas
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: loses dog I and I ain't even trying to shoot
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: on the niggas that subscribe to it. But like the
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: fact that niggas don't understand that they getting pandered to.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: And again, this is a part of the misunderstanding, this
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: inherent belief that men are logical. So you don't think
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: you're being pandered too. You think you're subscribing to a
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: person that's being logical. No, nigga, your emotions are being
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: played with, just like the dudes who be the Derek
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Jackson's and shit to be telling the women that they
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: always write like them.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Man, I don't.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Know he was on tonight's conversation you talk.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I can't remember.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Is that is that his name? Yeah? Talking about yeah,
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: bro talking about baby moms. This baby mom's that bro?
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: You you went and got with a woman that had
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: children already. Dog, you're a stepfather, And I'm not shitting
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: on step dads. It's just that, like brou if y'all
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: would even kind of look and see who niggas are
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: in real life, y'all will see y'all being pandered to. Yeah,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: you feel me like he is everything that he says
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: a man should not be. And it's not to say
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: that those things are actually bad. I had a step dad,
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: like my father was a stepdad to my brothers. Nigga,
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with that, but you shitting on But
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: it's you shit on baby moms though, you shit on
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: women who have children. You shit on women who are
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: not this, who are not that, And it's like dog,
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: y'all these people, fellas, these people got y'all shitting on
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: women that one you may not even be attracted to,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: so there was no need to shit on them. You
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: already not looking over there. And two that got you
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: shitting on women you ain't got access to to make
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: you feel good about yourself. You you, I'm just let's
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: keep it g fellas. You know what I'm saying. You
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: don't have the hoes. You was never that man. You
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. You may get women from time
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: to time, but you was never the one with the hose.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: But these niggas on YouTube got you hating on the hose.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Why why are you going out your way to shit
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: on women that you was never pulling like you was
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: never around the hot girls, the bad bitches that ain't you.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: But you gotta do that to stand on attention that
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: you actually want. You do want to be that man
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: you feel me like like but it so it makes
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: you feel better to shit on them because that's the
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: closest you're gonna come to access bro tiring them niggas off, Man,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Stop subscribing to that weird ass shit dog. Go outside, sorry, bro,
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: go go outside, my nigga, speak your mind. Man, Let
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: me take a second and level set.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: If you are a person listening to this podcast who's
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: not a man, who's not a black man, I'm gonna
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: tell you something. This is how men talk when they're
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: not being overly performative on the internet likes It's this
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: is exactly what it sounds like every time when I
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: hear men talk on social media. It's like this this
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: gradient of going from being toxically masculine and just embodying
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: all the things that hurt men in real life to
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: being overly playing caten to the sensibilities of women to
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: the point where, you you know.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Grand awaken. It is my queen.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I ain't never heard nobody talk like that when women
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: weren't present, And it's like, all right, bro.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Just be ja.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: So if you if this is your first time, this
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: is what the barbershop conversation sounds like it's just the
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: words a little bit bigger. So welcome, Welcome, Welcome to
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: the group chat, Welcome to the group chat. And I also,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: you know, let us know your thoughts, let us know
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: what you've been thinking so far, let us know what
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: a high moment you stumbled upon as you've been going
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: through this episode, because I'm curious to know what y'all think.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: To wrap that up with the red pill content.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: If you are a man who finds identity in that content,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think that there's anything inherently wrong in hearing
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: parts of your experience being said by those dudes, But
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: I want you to be cognizant of when they're not
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: being honest, when they're being disingenuous. Why when they telling
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: you what you want to hear for the sole purpose
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: of either reaching in your pockets or getting your attention,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: And be careful about who they say the enemy is.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: You know, especially if you're a black man, you are
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: used to messages that call you the enemy.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Of things that you ain't got nothing to do with.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And it's not women's responsibility to fix men. We got
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: to pull ourselves up, you know. We gotta be communal
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: gotta hold your brother's accountable, hold yourself accountable. And don't
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: just fix the outside world. Don't just try to manipulate
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: power around you. Take time to be inside your own body,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: live inside your own experience, sit with your feelings. What
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: are your feelings? Here to say to you, There's nothing
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: wrong with being emotional. Nothing wrong with being emotional. Everything
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: wrong with not having the ability to control your emotions
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: and acknowledge and honor your emotions.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: That's where you go wrong as a man.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: But trip you said something earlier before we started talking
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: about Red pil and I could talk about that stuff
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: all day. You were talking about how Western society has kind.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Of shaped black masculinity in a way.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: And I'm acknowledged, Like now, all of our listeners are black,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: we have Asian men, we have white men who listen
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: to this pod. And I don't think white men always
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: under stand how Western versions of masculinity have victimized them
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: in a way. But there was this around the turn
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: of the nineteenth century, there was a self made man myth.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: And in the self made man myth, it was mostly
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: about accumulating material resources and getting land and obtaining opportunity
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: and wealth, and black men got caught in the cross
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: hairs of that because we were trying to obtain on
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: one side what these men had when they come in,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: and now they set the standard. This is what success
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: in America looks like, This is what American dream looks like.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: This is what you got inspired to.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: And then on the other side, we go back to
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: our communities because we can't quite touch what they built.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: We can't get there. There are a lot of barriers in
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: a way. And then on the other side of our
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: community we get demonized for not being able to touch it,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: and we just get caught burning the candle on both ends.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: And when you burn the candle on both ends, for
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: when the candle don't last very damn low, and for
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: two of your hands going to get scorched.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: So I want you to talk a little bit about
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: how I said, we get punished for not meeting in
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the middle. I don't know if your perspective is the same.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Can you talk about how that affected us, where that
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: puts us in just how you see that thing.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: Overall running after a moving gold post. Essentially, because we
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: have to be honest, the internal pressure is there to
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: still meet that mark.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Oh one thousand percent.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: So it's not like we're chasing it for no reason.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: So we're gonna keep chasing it. You know what I'm saying.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Our community buys into this version of manhood. Our homes,
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: our spouses buy into this version of manhood. So there
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: is no real incentive at this current moment to not
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: chase that. But then at the societal level, you're still
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: a black man, and there's no incentive to really give
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: you the full benefit of manhood because then what is
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: a white man? So you chasing this idea that they're
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: gonna continue to find ways to move just outside your hands.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: What does that put us though? Because there's a profound why.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: I think everything that you're saying holds merit for sure.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: That puts you in a place of powerlessness because you
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: are you. It's like when you dangle the carrot in
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: front of the horse to make it run ahead and
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: pull the wagon. It'll pull the wagon forever, but it
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: will never taste the carroat. So what does that leave us.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: We're gonna have to start making some safe places for
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: niggas to start running.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Shout out a trip fonteam man.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: If we don't, if we don't build that, it's not happening.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: I think what's happened to us as a people is,
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: in a lot of ways, we've stopped thinking in revolutionary
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: ways because we don't think. We still have revolutionary problems.
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: And a man not being able to take a break.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Is a problem.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: A man not being able to stop long enough to
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: assess whether what he's chasing is worth chasing or can
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: be caught is a problem. And if we don't fix that,
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: it does not get fixed. Society has no reason to
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: fix it for us. We have to understand it. We
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: have to accept that, not just understanding that that the
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: things that the problem is specific to us, There is
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: no real incentive for society at large to fix those
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: things because society at large runs on those things. Yeah,
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of our hurts you you feel me? Nah
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: that that my bament interrupts you?
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Good? Is you just inspire the thought?
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Why fix the thing that hurts you when that's the
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: very fuel that I need to keep going?
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Correct?
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: So what does that look like for us? But how
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: do we how do we actually fix that in real time?
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Because I'm guilty of it too, I will, I will
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: work until I drop to be able to make sure
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: that I'm holding up my ended agreement, in my marriage,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: in my family, in the eyes of my community, and
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: in my own heart. So this ain't you know, we're
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: not demonizing men for thinking this way. We're just putting
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: words to the feelings here for sure, and in my
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: mind one of the ways that we move past this.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: And I said this on Instagram. I got a clip
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: where I said, men need to build intimacy with other men.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: And intimacy ain't about sex. It's not about sexuality, even
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: though like homophobia is a huge turn like hinge point
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: in masculinity, especially black masculinity. If it even hints at homophobia,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: my god, you know, the world better be lucky homophobia exists,
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: or those black boys.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Would be dominating gymnastics.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: You understand, it's such a ridiculous thing to think that
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: the worst thing as a man you could be as gay.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: But it's.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Whenever it hints at that, it's like an automatic refusal.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: But intimacy, you need closeness with other men. You need
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: to be able to have a conversation where you see
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: and be seen, bro, where you.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Feel and be felt.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: You need to be able to say, hey, bro, I
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: miss you, Bro, I miss you, I miss hanging around you.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I miss your presence without somebody calling it glazing or
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: you know, ord hopping. You need to be able to
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: see versions of yourself out in communities or out in
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: a community that feel good. You need to be able
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: to see different versions of masculinity. One of my favorite
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: people in the world is Kevin on stage.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: He's low key my idol, and I've told him this
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: in person several times because keV has a version of
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: masculinity that ain't tough. He's not tough, bro, Bro try
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: to drink a beer in front his face every time,
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: but he does not care.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: But guess what, though, trip that man wife love him down,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: that man, family love him.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: He's so successful and it's because he's a to be
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: confident in himself man. And I feel like you get
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: that confidence when you're in community with other men like
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: that might ain't even know a version like a man
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: like you exist. Now I got something else to pull from, Like,
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: how do you see this thing?
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: How do we secure that?
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: When you say we gotta make a safe place for
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: niggas to run, that's brilliant, bro, What does that look like?
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: I think it's what you're talking about. I think we
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: got to be realistic. As nice as my word sound,
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: I'm not telling niggas to stop paying bills. That's yea
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: we adults man Like yes said, I think it actually
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: is at least a nice amount of it soft through
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: what you're talking about, because when I you know, when
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: I told you earlier, Me and the homies. You want
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: of the people who videos come through the group chat,
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: but the homies is the point when when we in
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: the group chat, when we link up the homies safe
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: to say that, like, hey man, fatherhood been kind of
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: whopping my ass lately.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: And talk about it.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: You know, because a couple a couple of the guys
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: in the group half kids, they talk about, hey man,
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: how did you handle when your daughter did this the
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: first time and threw the toy across the room? What
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: did you do?
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Bro?
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: Because I felt myself getting angry and I knew that
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: I was about to move from that instead of you
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: know what I'm saying, We can have convos like that.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: I don't smoke it on platforms plenty of times, BRO
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: shout out to my homie Atlas, that's my big brother.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: When I was down bad, Bro, like it felt like
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: my dreams had just fell through my fingers. It's like
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: my early twenties. Roger just went to this nigga crib
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: and cried brouh. He sat there, asked me if I
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: need a prayer. I was like, nah, bro, just kind
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: of need to, you know what I'm saying, And that
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: nigga put some music on and left me be and
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: was like, Hey, when you're ready to rap, let's rap.
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, made some food, left me
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: a plate when I was ready to eat. You know
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Like that, we not related by blood.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: As matter of fact, at the time, I didn't even
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: know him to the degree that I knew him now.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: But we have to be able to be warm and
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: safe spaces for one another because manhood is hard. I
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: think in healthy societies where women were acknowledged as as
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: equal beings, manhood was still hard. Being human is hard.
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: The nailing, the coughing for a lot of us is
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: that this version of manhood is taught to be or
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: taught to live in isolation. Oh absolutely, And that's the
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: killer right there. No human is meant for that. That's torturous.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: That's how you torture people isolation. It's a psychological tactic.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: You isolate people and they lose the cognitive constitution.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, m hm.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: So we need more intimate spaces than the barbershop, man,
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: Like you got to have them for yourself. Like as
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: a black man, you got to have that for yourself,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: in your in your your call.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: One thousand, bro, one thousand. And you can overlap man.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: You can have a past and that there, merapist. You
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: can have the close homie who you tell everything too,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: and one of your son's friends. Y'all go to the
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: playground and y'all might just kick it and talk. You know,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: you have to go break beyond the surface level, you know.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: And when a homie doing something that don't make sense,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: you got to pull them up, dog, yull them up,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: pull him up. Hey, bro, I just want to tap you,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: you know, stop the love he bro. I love you, bro,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: and I don't think that's you right there. I don't
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: like the way you did that. Let's talk through it.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Let's do that better, you know what I'm saying. Let's
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: because I love you and I want the best for you.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: See a homie who ain't living up to his own
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: dreams and expectations. Say, Bro, I know what you've been
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: talking about this shit for ten, fifteen, twenty days. Man,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: I ain't seen you make moves on it. How can
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: I be of service to your calls?
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: What can I do for you?
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: But then on the inverse, though, trip you got to
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: be mad enough to reach out and say, hey, Bro,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Know how to say this, but I feel sad, and
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't know what I need, but
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I feel sad.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Men are very good at not feeling, filling space within
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: the words. Sometimes men are very good at just sitting
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: with you in silence. And sometimes silence is medicine, and
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: so it's presence. And I think that if we can
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: move closer to those things, we could be true leaders
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: of our community, not by virtue of wanting to be seen,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: but by virtue of wanting to be effective. We can
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: make sure that we're reading books that feed our souls,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: not just our egos.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: We can disrupt the idea, and I know.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Dating culture doesn't support us, but disrupt the idea that
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: a man's value is his money. You know you think
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: your values your money. Man, Wait till you get a
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: lot of money and realize how lonely. It feels because
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: when you get money, that means you're spending a lot
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: of time making money. And when you spend time making money,
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: you ain't got time for shit else. Some of the
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: saddest people I know a millionaires brou somebody said that
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: on the pot one time.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: It's like, Man, your average streamer, he's richer and happier
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: than your average rapper. They don't. They not happy, Bro,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: They're not happy, They're just visible. Nigga.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: I know my best year. The longest block of time
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: I was home is two months m hm, in my
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: in my own home, in my own career. For the
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: most part, I was home two days, three days. I
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: ain't seen my mama, I ain't seen my niece. You
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: know what I'm saying Like that, man, Leadership ain't about
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: being in charge, man, It's about being present and willing
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: to be a service with your gifts.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: And any man can do that. Every man should do that.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Any man can do that. So let's let's let's close
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: this joint out. Man.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: I really enjoy talking to you, bro, like I think
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: you super special, I think you brilliant, I think you
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: just man. I've learned a lot just from sitting here
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: talking to you. Got to change numbers after this. Let's
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: be friends in real life, dog for sure, no Hollywood shit.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna do a little quick fire around you, ready,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: and I want you to just give me a quick answer.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Rapid fire. I'm gonna do one too, all right. So
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I want you to tell me one thing you wish
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: someone that told you about manhood growing up.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: Being strong doesn't mean being violent.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: M I like that. I like that. I think mine is.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: You're going to lose your whimsy. Fight hard for it, nigga,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: fight hard for your whimsy. Bro, be too serious, so bad, Bro,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: I just want to frolic in a in the bed
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: of lilacs. My boy. You know what I'm saying.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: I just want to be I just wanted to be
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: a nerd.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Goddamn. I just wanted to watch you just sue kis
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: in and cere you on my underwear. Bro, I'm just
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the boy man, Damn. Manhood is like a wolf in
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: the night. Boy, that thing come for you, all right.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Second one, give me a man in your life who
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: model something different and tell me what it taught you.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Shut out to brother Godfrey Man computer engineer family man.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: But like he was, he was like, just to be
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: Frank the first nigga that was still like a Christian
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: family man, still like a semi street dude, you know
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Like he and so for me, it
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: was just like, damn, you could be all of that,
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: like at the same time, you know what I'm saying,
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: still be successful, not be no clodes with no none
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: of that. Like I'm like, damn like all right, uh.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: And he took me under his wing man, so you know,
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: to have that direct mentorship.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Was dope shut out. The brother Godfrey.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Love me a multimodal black man. Mine would be my
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: man Jose. His dad's name was Jose. He used to
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: take us the Bible study. He got out of jail.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: He did a long stint and dedicated his life to
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: the Lord man. And Bro used to take us the
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Bible study. And he used to take he knew I
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: like the rap. He took us to the studio. We
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: worried albums off. He paid for everything. Oh what man,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: That's how I made my living before I became a therapist.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: Man, b A'll rather too, nigga, We got man.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: You know you know what it is? Yeah, connect you
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: know what time it is, Jose Rest in peace. Man.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: He was a great man. He was.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: He was a great man. He wasn't a perfect one,
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: but he was a great one. All right, finish this sentence.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: A real man blank.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Is who? He say? Is? How man? How man? How man?
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: I always say my biggest flex is I'm exactly who
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: I say I am. I say love that.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: I would say a real man feels he feels, and
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I say this to the couge come home.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's two.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Types of men, men who are afraid and men who
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: are terrified of being afraid.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: M hmm.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Falling in two categories all the time. Listen, if you're
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: a listener. This is to the man sitting in his car.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: This is to the man at work putting headphones on,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: trying to get through the day. This to the man
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: trying to hold back tears. This to the man fighting
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: for his marriage. Just to the man trying to understand himself,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: where he has been, where he is, and where he's going.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna hope that you picked up something valuable from
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: this episode. Make sure that you go and follow trip
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: trip tell him where they can find you.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: My wife at tripon tang t R pp F O
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: N T A n E Trip after Dark two ps.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: Everything else spelled correctly because we be reading this shit.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, tap in with your cousin brouh.
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Tap in with your cousin's fire man.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know I said it before, man, but thank
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: you for coming on you You you definitely lived up
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: to the expectation of all the things you say online.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: And it's something affirming about meeting somebody and they give
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: off what you thought they'd give off when you met
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: them online when they ain't know who you were. So
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: thank you for being you, bro, Thank you for existing
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: real live blush. Appreciate it. Oh of course man. Of course,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: of course might have to have you back, so stick
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: by the phone. So to the rest of y'all, if
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: you're listening, I appreciate you rocking with me being here
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: for the podcast. If there's something that pops up in
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: your head that you want to share, feel free to
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: hit me up.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: We're building this.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Community break by Brett, were building it back by Wickshun,
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: So I want you to stick with me. Hit me
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: up with your questions, your thoughts, and your feedback. Appreciate
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: y'all for being here. Appreciate your attention, Appreciate your awareness.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Make sure y'all follow my man trip. I'll see y'all
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: next time. Job well done, Peace, Learn the Hard Way.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: As a production of iHeart Podcasts, I'm your host kre Gaines.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: We're produced by Courtney Deans and Cason Alexander Ashley. J.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Hobbs is our senior producer.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Our executive producers A Will Packer, Doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Alex Balden, and Carla Willmarris