Latest / The Leader in You / 111. Bring Your Emotions to Work: Building Connected Teams | ATD OrgDev Recap

Transcript

111. Bring Your Emotions to Work: Building Connected Teams | ATD OrgDev Recap · The Leader in You

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Experience work interactions in a different and refreshing light.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: We bring the signs of attachment and emotional connection with insight from the last 20 years to share how you can overcome conflict issues at work and build strong team relationships as well as the connected culture.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leader in You podcast.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: We are so excited to be here.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paulina, and I co-host this amazing podcast with the wonderful Dr.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Lola Gershfeld.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Dr.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Paulina, and hello everyone.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited for today's podcast.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we have some very special guests.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: You probably know them because we have had them here on our podcast before.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to give a very warm welcome to Eric Bostik and Jamie Goff.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, guys.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for watching.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're so excited that you're back again.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: We just love you guys so much on our podcast.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we just couldn't resist having you back on.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: Feeling is mute here.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So today's episode, I'm so excited to really talk about like your experience and what you guys just had a really amazing presentation.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: You guys were at the ATD conference, right?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I had the pleasure of watching your presentation.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to kind of dive into that and share what the experience was like for both of you.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And also Dr.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Lola, because you were there as well, of course.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, how has it impacted you after that and what kind of experience was it to share that?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So um, Jamie, why don't you start?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course, absolutely.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we had the great privilege, the three of us, uh, Dr.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Lola and Eric and I, to present together on the main stage at the ATD Org Dev Conference.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um a great opportunity to share our message around the importance of emotion and tax sciences um in leadership.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was super fun uh to work with uh the three of us to work together and collaborate and um just for each of us to have the opportunity to share some of our expertise.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think the audience really enjoyed it.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: We got some fantastic feedback um after our presentation, and um, you know, they were engaged and up and moving around and talking with each other.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was a lot of fun, and I think it really had a big impact.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: What about you, Eric?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it was an honor.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, so grateful that Dr.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_04: Lola invited Jimmy and I to be a part of her team that day and present on this important um, you know, topic, you know, something she could have more than handled on her own, but uh shared the stage with us.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it was just such a treat to see Dr.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: Lola in action and get the audience, you know, excited and engaged about this important, you know, need for understanding how our emotions affect the workplace.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: And then Jamie was masterful in getting them up and moving and sharing the you know, pursuer withdrawal dynamic.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_04: And I got I actually participated in that and had a great conversation with one of the attendees on he was a withdrawal, and of course, um, as all of us on the podcast know, I'm a pursuer.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so we really collect and connected.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_04: But then for me to finish it off um and get people, you know, fired up about the micro moments they can give to make connections, um, was just so well received, you know, and understanding that we can really attune to the people that we uh connect with in the workplace and create a real foundation of safety and security before we ever have some of those difficult conversations when we do get triggered.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um and the excitement was palpable.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, afterwards we had, I guess, a lot of people lined up to give us testimonials and had a great conversation uh during Lola's workshop uh with people from the state of Hawaii who now are interested in bringing us in to uh you know continue to carry this message to their managers, but you know, that they were really uh inspired by this you know idea that man, you know, what I think our emotions are the the problem and the solution to how we can create bonds in the workplace.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's so beautifully said.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: The state of Hawaii, I probably know them.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know the I think you might I can see you heard email.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what about you, Dr.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Lila?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Before we dive into explaining really like what the session was about, what was your experience in presenting with Eric and Jamie and that entire um session at the ATV conference?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it really made it easy for me because we all speak the same language.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I felt like uh when I started the the presentation and I handed off to Jamie and then Jamie handed off to Eric, it felt so seam seamless for me.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like we all spoke the same language, and I like that because it wasn't like me, the only person who is trying to convince people how important attachment is and how important it is for us to tune into emotions.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: I had these two wonderful colleagues that are passionate about that, and can actually share their also experience and their knowledge and enthusiasm.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I just saw the room just fire up, you know, and it was just amazing uh with Jamie's uh activity and uh Eric's energy, it felt so unbelievably in you know, empowering for me at least.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: So after when I came back, I was so excited.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I feel like people need to know this.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided like to record every day while I walk.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh good, amazing.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: About uh the attachment and emotions because it just uh feels that we are not the three only three people who can learn it and can talk about it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: We are not the only three people here.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Four, four people, exactly.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Four people I speak the same language.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: We so for those of you who are listening or watching, you can actually access this presentation on our YouTube channel.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you can go to EMC Leaders, it's there and available for you to see.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So if you didn't have a chance to see it or you were not there, just to give you a little bit of a preface of what it was about, it was pretty much about bringing your emotions to work and how can we work with the emotions in the most effective way to connect with people.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I want to um also understand is why do you think this is important?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Dr.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Lola, why don't you start?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Why is this so important for us to know?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I know that I did a presentation recently and the people said, like, oh, so you know, this is maybe similar to like a therapy session.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's not a therapy session, right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a therapy session.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Why is this so important for us to know?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it's important because we are trying to solve problems, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying to solve problems in the workplace for people to work cohesively together, for people to engage, for people to create and support each other, for people to continue to grow and develop.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And when people get stuck or when there's a turnover, or when people are not working well together, we need to be able to identify what is it that is blocking them from moving forward?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: What is it that gets them stuck in these terrible patterns that they can't move forward?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I, you know, I was uh um thinking about our my my anniversary is coming up tomorrow, right?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: 45 years anniversary.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: I remember on our 20th anniversary, we went to Costa Rica and um it was beautiful, and we signed up for to go through a rainforest.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: And in that rainforest, we are walking with a guide, and suddenly the guide stops and he says, Lola, stop.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay, stop.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I stopped and he said, Look, look what next to you.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Look, look, look at what's happening next to you.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm looking, I'm like, I see only leaves, and you know, it's a rainforest.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: I say, I don't see anything.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: He said, Look, and I look, and it's four inches away from your foot, he said.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought it was like a snake or something, and I look and I don't see anything.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Look, the thing you think is a stick is a tail, and the thing you think is uh is the rock is the ice, it's a night jar.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: The night jar and it it nests on the floor of the rainforest, and I could not see it.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I and and I remember it was exactly the same way when I was sitting in like board meetings, and I did not understand why people could not talk to each other and could not understand.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was like being empathic to them, I was giving them insight, but they still could not talk to each other because I did not see, I did not know how to see what was happening for them, which is emotional disconnection.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the reason why we're teaching that, so people can see and can learn.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Just like I didn't see the night jar, people had to point it out to me.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the same thing in our interactions at work.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a good story.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's super surprising to me.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I um known you for 43 years and I've never heard that story before.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's so amazing and it's so, so true.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I like didn't even understand what a conflict was.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I didn't even, I didn't even know what it meant to fight.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know like there were emotions, I didn't even know like, you know, there's patterns and cycles.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: There was so much revelation to understanding and awakening that part.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do see that right now in this day and age where we're living now, there's a lot more progressive, you know, kind of openness in the workplace on understanding how emotions play such a big role in our relationships.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for sharing.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Which leads me to Eric.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I did see towards the end of your, you know, end of the presentation, you had that last part and you really talked about time.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: You really pointed that out, you know.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: You said that's how kids spell love.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, C-I-M-E.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is really important for us to spend time with each other, right?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important for us to act as if we are interested, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Have interest.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting how many people I meet and they don't really know how to ask questions, have conversations.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: But underneath the inability for people to spend time, and underneath the inability for people to really be curious about others are these blocks, you know, are the emotional blocks that we have placed in the many, many years of not feeling heard or seen or valued ourselves.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you feel?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and Cher also, um, I love that concept that you share at the presentation.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel that learning this process and really understanding attachment ties into our ability, gives us like that openness and ability to create that time for others?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's a great question, Paulina.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I I uh, you know, it means a lot to me that you obviously took the time to watch our presentation.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, you know, that obviously helps me feel seen.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: And and you know, I think the the the hardest thing about teaching this to others, and that's what I find when talking to educators and and as well as to you know corporate people, is that you're asking to them to do something that maybe they haven't experienced themselves.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: So in the book Why Love Matters, how affection affects the baby's brain by Sue Gerhardt, she talks about it, they're literally like branches that are not formed in your brain when you don't get that love and attention on a consistent basis.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: And then so now you don't even have a frame of reference to give that to others.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think at times the idea to show up for someone is hard and sometimes even brings up some resentment.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: Well, no one did that for me, you know, kind of thing.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so we're saying, but you know, as you know, Dr.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: Dan Siegel talks about, you can't really give an experience that you haven't experienced.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: And so this idea of really understanding relationships and having a really great secure base.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why it's so important to earn your security by having either the great therapist or you're very fortunate to have a great partner that willing to do this work with you and have this journey with you.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know, my beloved Jenny, who's gone through the attachment, you know, growth, learning and therapy with me.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: We we share the same therapist.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know, she really shows up for me when I'm at my worst, which is another Dan Siegel quote, which is a child only knows how much you love them when you're able to love them at their worst, not at their best.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, showing up for people is a real skill and proximity is what Dr.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: Bobby talked about.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: You it's about being in person and showing up and and saying, You're a priority to me.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm I'm gonna be there in person where I'm making this time for you.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think, you know, in this busy world of work, work, work, work, you know, we go to meetings, we go on Zoom meetings, we just get right into it, you know.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: But coming in and being intentional.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I practice just on your mom today, Dr.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: Lola, you know, from the conversation book from Dr.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, Vanessa Van Edwards, who talks about how do we have these great conversations because I think it's part of the skill that we're you're mentioning there.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: You know, what's something exciting you're looking forward to, Lola?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: And boom, she lit up.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, Jack's coming and celebrating her 45th anniversary.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, how was that trip you just took to Port, you know, to Maine?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, and she just lit up.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I literally know that she's having a dopamine hit as we talk and she's enjoying and getting, and then also that I'm interested, she's gonna associate that with me.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_04: And this is the same thing a good parent does, just like we see in the still face experiment.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: We're smiling and laughing, we're attuned, we're lighting up.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so if we can see how much it works for children, and we know that our attachment style lasts through the life course, as Bobby talks about, then why don't we be just as intentional with doing that for adults?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: And then we create that connection and closeness in such a way that people want to come near, they want to come close, and we're not just transactional, we're really relational.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_04: And as someone who was a latchkey kid, grown up in an empty, you know, home, I'm I I used to I tell on stage my babysitters were the Jeffersons, good times was happening.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_04: Uh at night it was Dynasty, Dallas, Dukes of Hazard, even Falcon Carest as an eight, you know, eight-year-old, nine-year-old.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, these were my relationships because no one spent time, my mom couldn't read, my dad was always on, um, left the home early in life.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was that kid in class who couldn't stop talking.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_04: And then I become the person in the workplace who can't stop talking and needs attention and wants to connect, right?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: So learning how to self-regulate has been a real chore for me.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: Learning how to share the stage, learning how to be a part of a team.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why honestly, this opportunity and privilege to be with Jamie and Lola was honestly uh a big milestone in my own personal and professional life.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: Saying I don't have to be the center of attention.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a teammate, I'm a colleague, and we've all got something really important to share.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I want us all to shine, you know.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought Jamie was masterful.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: I love watching both.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_04: I could listen to both of them all the, you know, all day long.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: I they're like heroes and colleagues.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I love them.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna wheel it back to your presentation because you did touch on that as you were talking, and you said you did bring up like the still face experiment.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that you discussed in the presentation.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And if you are watching or listening and you have not seen the still face experiment, we highly recommend just look it up on YouTube.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's available still.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was years and years and years ago, pretty much it was an experiment about a mom and a baby.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about this many times on the podcast.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: But what I want to point out, Eric, that you said so beautifully is when we cannot stay present, and maybe you've used a little bit of different words in your own personal experience, how difficult it was for you to really understand your emotions and to self-regulate.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: But when we can't learn that tool of actually staying present, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And where does that even come from?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: The ability for us to stay present is when we are self-regulated ourselves, because when we do have anxiety or insecure attachment, all those other symptoms show up where we're like distracted constantly and we're like reaching for someone else, and like we can't understand how, you know, we talk a talk and talk and talk a lot.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that comes from that inability for us to find that secure attachment, know securely in ourselves that we can be present for others.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you say it so beautifully, you can have it in your own personal experience, right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you really, really truly understand what is happening and how you can show up for others.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And this actually reminded me of my experience learning this process with my mom, because when I got divorced, I had the privilege of understanding and learning the EMC process for about two years at the end of my marriage, which got me to clarity of how I didn't want to be married anymore.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I spent like the last, you know, the last seven or eight years working with my mom on this process to rebuild our relationship.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, I was doing it with my kids.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I took the role on as the child in the practice I had with my mom.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then I took the role on as the mother in the practice I had with my children.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that was so, so awakening because it was like every single time I was able to unravel what I had experienced, then I was like, oh my gosh, my kids are probably experiencing that same thing when I'm feeling that way with how my mom talks or how what she says or whatever that how that message lands.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're probably feeling that same way.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really nice to hear that.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for sharing.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, you're very welcome.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: And again, like I said, it was just it was really cool to to share with the you know the audience in real time some of these micro practices of scheduling, you know, prioritizing time with your colleagues, smiling and lining up when you see each other, being attuned to their needs and finding a way to support them.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, this EMC process has become so powerful, not only as something to be in association with with Dr.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: Lola, but over that weekend, right after that, I went home with my EMC journal and me and my partner uh did two or three sessions together.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: That's so great.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: As we continue to trigger each other and work through it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm telling you, um this is something to be shot at from the rooftops.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I um I had the opportunity to teach this to a group of kids, fourth, fifth, and sixth graders.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did talk about this on the podcast last week.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was so amazing because now every time I go to the school, they're like, Miss Polina, we need more sessions.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Miss Polina, I said that you're not supposed to say sorry because that really doesn't mean anything.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: We need to acknowledge that we hurt someone.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I hear all these kids like, Miss Belina, we when are you gonna come back and teach us more lessons on this?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cute.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I so beautiful.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that I think children, especially every every time I talk about attachment to high school kids and college kids, they're like, I mean, their eyes just you know, and they they they're so thirsty to learn about it.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and they're so kids are also so quick.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know how parents uh like adults take because we're so traumatized, there's so much time in between for us to like we get the form, we do the form, but then it like needs a moment to like sit, and we have to kind of sit with it, and then it just has to change our brain wiring and it takes so long with kids.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's so fast, you know.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: You do a session with them and they're like they're already kind of over it, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: But then you kind of just like are able to give them that space, just a little bit more of that space, and then they self-regulate so quickly, so quickly.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really interesting.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So cool.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I want to just turn the stage over to Jamie.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jamie, you had an opportunity to present on like the withdrawal pursuer, and I really love how it's just like the way that you present it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I would love for you to share just your take on the withdrawal and pursuer.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because I the more I also really understand the withdrawal and the pursuer, the more I realize that there's so well, is it happen when people are hurt?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do they become the withdrawal, or do they become the pursuer when the other person is hurt and they think they did something wrong?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we also take that role on where it kind of switches.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So share with us a little bit about that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So during the presentation, you know, I spent some time introducing that um by talking about how in Karen Thrall's book, she talks about she calls it the now and later people.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love a little, you know, way to explain it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, those now people being kind of the pursuers who are like, if there's a problem or if they experience any kind of discomfort, I'm like, we have.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Deal with this right now.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, come on, we got to talk about this.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we can't have any space, you know, to think about it.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and then you have your later people who are like, whoa, you know, like I need some time to process this, right?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so whenever that later person experiences that pursuer coming at them, then what happens is that they want to pull back even further.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so then you end up with this cycle, they this pattern that develops over time, where that it becomes more and more deeply embedded in the way that two people interact with one another.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really where the problem lies, right?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's the when that pattern and that cycle becomes embedded.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: The now, you know, the now strategy, the pursuer strategy, it's not wrong.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: The later, the distancer strategy, it's not wrong.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're just different ways of reconnecting, of trying to reconnect and trying to find safety in interactions when things feel threatening.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the problem is that they're opposite ways of coping with that.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you have two people who are in a relationship and coping in opposite ways, it can bring about a lot of distress if you don't realize what's happening and don't recognize that it's the pattern, it's the cycle, it's the problem, not the other person.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that kind of becomes the first step is that recognition that wait a minute, we're stuck in this pattern and we are victims of this pattern.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can the two of us work together to overcome the pattern?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then that becomes where comes into some self-regulation as part of that, being attuned to your own emotions.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, like through the EMC process, right, you're able to identify like what's really going on for me at a deeper level.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why am I reacting in the way that I am?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of these feelings that are being triggered?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the same thing, you know, so for both people in that cycle, and then being able to express that to each other and to hear, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: To listen and to really try to understand what the other person is experiencing so that you can reconnect.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was super fun because you know, had people in the audience like kind of identify whether they tend to be a now or a later person and go to opposite sides of the room and then have them, you know, partner with someone on the opposite side of the room to talk about what that's like for them.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it was funny because I mean, I had to like yell at people like three times, like, okay, people, your time's up, like come back together because everyone was so engaged in their conversations.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when I said so, like, are you having conversations like this at work?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they're everyone's like, no.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would it be helpful if you could?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Yeah, it really would.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because the cycles, obviously, and maybe it's a little easier, easier to identify how they happen in our personal relationships, but the same things happen in our work relationships too.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, how would you say would be a good idea to like what would you say if you have if you're a now person and you have a later person that you're dealing with, or you're a later person, you have a now person you're dealing in with, what would you say would be a good way to either re-engage or you know, get someone that says later all the time to feel like they can come and have the conversation, or someone who's a later who can really get someone that says now to put a pause.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that first is that awareness, right, of kind of what your strategy tends to be in that particular relationship.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And our chat strategies can change.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's not always the same.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it depends on the context, right?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for me, I do tend to be a bit of a later person.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I like to think about things and I need some space.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so as a later person, and I'm in a relationship with someone who is a now person.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: What I can do to help kind of calm the, you know, the anxiety that they might be feeling is just to say, hey, can I have some time to think about this and get back to you?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we reconnect on this in a little while to give myself some time to think and like really identify what I'm feeling and what might be going on for me in that situation.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that can even just a simple thing like that can really help to calm that now person because they at least know that you see them and you've heard them and you recognize that they're wanting to connect with you around something.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think for the now person, once they hear that, to trust, right?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that that later person is going to come back to them and be willing to engage and have a conversation when things are a little bit calmer.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: You you wrote the secure leader book, is that correct?
• 26:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I wanted to share that.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting because I really love, I didn't really, and I understand there's like secure attachment or insecure attachment, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the entire attachment situation.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like it also aligns with like being an actual secure person, right?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when you are a secure person, it is a lot decent easier to deal with insecure people, yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it's funny because secure oftentimes kind of correlates with confidence, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: How do you become more confident?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do you, you know, and oftentimes people who have insecure attachment struggle with being confident.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought it was so I love that you titled your book that, and you really come from that perspective of being a secure leader.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because even as a parent, I can tell you that the insecurities that my kids experience that I see still, I have a much easier time dealing with, right?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't impact me as much.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I'm concerned about them.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I and I saw that actually recently when my mom was visiting here, and um, she became very triggered by something my daughter, like how my daughter was responding to her.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of being able to like be more curious about what was going on with my daughter, it was very difficult for her.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was much more um stressed about what was going on with her.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I noticed that, oh, it does make a difference because it doesn't, yeah, I I've spent a lot of time working with my daughter.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that I have a much more secure attachment than maybe my mom does with her.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's that difference that like really, really, I I feel I can see how it impacts my life and how I'm able to just be, I think the I feel word is like be more at peace, you know, where people find like, oh, you find inner peace, you know, from that Adam movie.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can be able to regulate those emotions and become use that same process to become more secure within yourself and your own cycles, and then be able to regulate and de-escalate what you need in order to show for the insecure people in your life.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that something that's really important to point out is that if you are secure, that does not mean you don't get triggered.
• 29:30
  unknown: Right.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: You absolutely get triggered, right?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: The difference is that I think that the more secure you have, if you've really worked on kind of earning security in your own life and your relationships, you recognize I'm being triggered.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and you can and that's where the self-regulation comes into play.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can slow down, and that's really important.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Slowing down.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can slow down what's happening inside of you and take that pause to really think about what's happening.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe notice the cycle that maybe you're being triggered to get pulled into and say, no, I'm gonna make a choice here to not get pulled into that cycle that I've been victim to before.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think even again, even for people who you know have earned security and have been working on that for themselves, we still tend to lean one way or the other.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of tend to lean a little bit more like anxious or avoidant if we're using um attachment style terms.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: But again, we we recognize it's easier for us to recognize what's happening.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and to be able to even say, like, I'm noticing we're getting pulled into our cycle here.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Can we slow down and take a moment, right?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really interesting.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: As you said that, I was trying to think back.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: When I get triggered, I oftentimes, I mean, aside from my relationship with my ex-husband, because I definitely feel like that.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of sensitivities that I still need to work on.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I ask myself, why am I getting triggered?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is it that's triggering me?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's the first thing I first feel discomfort.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know so well, I think now what my symptoms are of being triggered.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, ooh, like what is happening?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I lean more towards being curious, right?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really funny with my daughter, for example, we were talking about this yesterday, my youngest daughter, who's gonna be 11 in a few days.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: She, I can tell as soon as she gets triggered, she doesn't recognize right away what's going on with her, right?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it changed her behavior changes very noticeably for me.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I just start to call it out.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm like, oh, yeah, I see like what's happening here, you know, there's something going on.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're ready to share, you know, what is triggering you, or you've like had some chance to think about it, I'm here and ready to listen.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been really interesting because then she starts to become aware of her behavior, and she's like, Wow, mom, I don't know why I said it that way, you know, and I'm like, that's okay, there's something there that's bothering you, and that makes sense why your behavior changes, you know.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that curiosity within yourself to be able to, and I agree, I definitely notice I used to be a withdrawal, very much so.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I say I'm a recovered withdrawer because I tend to now lean more to a pursuer because I also know the torture withdrawal goes through because I experienced it myself.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I that was like the only moment I felt bad for my ex-husband because he's like a hundred percent pursuer.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, I really tortured him there.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's like there's more of that feeling like I'd rather talk about it as soon as I possibly can so that it doesn't affect me physically.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can live longer, right?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the math is mathing in my head.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: If I can talk about it faster, then yeah, of course, temporarily I feel better.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then long term I have more secure attachment, but like long, long term, I live longer, right?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, ultimately, it just makes sense to talk about it sooner.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: All right, but it does.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the research does show that it impacts our health.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when we turn down, when we become isolated, when we're down, when we don't want to talk to anybody, and we think it is relieving, but it's a disastrous for us when we are creating this shelf, like kind of like isolation for ourselves.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is also you know research, especially when it comes to couples specifically, um, that does say though that you know, taking some space, like talking about something when both people are incredibly heightened, does not you is not helpful.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because physiologically, if both people are in either fight, flight, freeze, you know, fawn type of mode, there's not real communication going on.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't really communicate effectively in those moments.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there is value in taking some space, but you can't suppress it forever.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have to commit, you know, as a couple or in any relationship to this is a conversation we need to have.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let's maybe give ourselves a few moments to calm down physiologically, but we need to engage around this and you know, eventually and have this conversation rather than just sweeping it under the rug, you know, and hoping it eventually just disappears and goes away.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: You know, to Jamie's great point there, me and uh my partner, Jenny, uh, we are we get in that negative cycle and I get activated.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it just I I now, because of the EMC process and of course Sue Johnson's work as well, like but even more so since working with this with Lola, but you know, on a personal level, I start seeing the cycle and I just keep going and we keep going.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: And then Jenny will say, Let's just stop.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: And we will get off the phone and you know, I'll do some physiological size.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_04: But all of a sudden, my upstairs brain turns back on, and then I can see.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_04: And just yesterday, we after a wonderful meeting we had, and then I end up we end up getting back into a negative cycle from the day before about a topic.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_04: And thankfully, the signal on my phone went out like in terms of like it, I couldn't get a signal.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_04: And and during that moment, I asked the question you talked about, Polina was, why am I so triggered by this?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's about it's about a trust issue.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: And then and then I immediately the voice in my head remembered my mother used to often say to me, After all I've done for you, and this is how you think.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_04: And what our uh upset was about was I was upset that something hadn't been done, and she had promised to do it, and then she was reminding me of all the things she is doing, and and and I was like, Yeah, but right, and then I was oh my gosh.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, it was so cool because we both are doing this work together.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that time went by.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, she sent a very EMC low, you know, uh type of response saying, that must have been really hard for you growing up with that with that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm really sorry that what I said is triggering you, you know, and and I'd like to heal this with you.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: And and and and thank you for and thank you for sharing.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_04: And then I said, you know, thank you.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: I really appreciate trying to understand, and I see where I'm triggering you.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_04: And of course I can say, because I love the EMC process, you're so courageous and strong.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: And uh but you know, at the end of the day, like we both went to bed peacefully because to Jamie's great point, we're finally learning.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: We I just I have to shut up already.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: Just let it get that's get the the brain settled, you know, central nervous system settled, and then our thinking brain can come back.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_04: And now we have an even more entrenched process that we can refer to.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, she needs to be heard, I need to be heard, trying to be seen, and there's a deeper why behind the behavior, as Dr.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: Siegel talks about.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_04: So it's just really powerful when you feel like you finally got a roadmap.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why back to the very beginning of this this podcast, the question is why do people need to know this?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_04: Because we're not we don't all we don't get this roadmap unless you had really secure parents who modeled this for you and it became part of your neural pathways and lens.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_04: This is not natural, and nearly half the population is insecurely attached.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, more than like 90%.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know, the so the research is 95%.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that doctor, Dr.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_04: Diane Pool Heller, Dr.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: Siegel, like if you want to like what they say is 90-50 percent, you go over the actual that that research.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_04: I've heard it since COVID, it's actually maybe not flipped to where like maybe 30 are secure, 70 are insecurely attached.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: But like you, I keep wondering where are the all these secure people?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: I I would agree with you, I'm gonna where's that where's that that percentage that are all secure?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because I haven't met on yet, you know.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, great point.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm just saying when you when it when I talk to my presentations, I cite them as yeah, yeah, of course.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's valid.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Which brings us to the second session that we did.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: And also Jamie and Eric were ab were able to attend the session.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to talk about that.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we just have a few more minutes.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, let us hear it, share, share what's gone, what happened in the second session.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: What was that like, Dr.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Lola?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think uh what we were just talking about self-awareness.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: How do we become more self-aware if we don't ever hear how we triggered other people?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or when we never share how we trigger, you know, how we get triggered.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the the second session, we actually talked about building emotionally connected leaders and teams and how uh using the emotional connection process or EMC as we call it, to really go step by step to recognize and have these conversations of what is our trigger, what is our ROSPATs, what is the emotion, what is automatic thought that happens for us, what do we do to protect ourselves and what do we need to feel safe and connected?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know Eric and Jamie, you guys participated in that.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious, how was that for you as well?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: I'll just show briefly, uh, my people loved it and it was really cool.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: And one, my person said wrote quickly, he said, Wow, wouldn't this be interesting to do with people?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it really would be.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, Jamie, what's your experience?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, the person I was partnering with also, I think it was uh it was a familiar process um for me because I'm uh had been trained as an EFT emotionally focused therapist in in the past.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that that process in the cycle I you know I'm familiar with and have used it um you know throughout my life and both my personal and professional relationships.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: I remember like one of the most uh challenging kind of work issues I had to, conversations I had to have.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: The first thing I did before doing that was sit down.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: This was probably uh 20 years ago at this point, was sit down and work through like my side of the cycle.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then kind of started from there and expressing, you know, what like what I was experiencing and starting from that place of like vulnerability, which just makes the whole conversation easier.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, the person I was partnering with was like, this is you know, really interesting.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think she was, you know, it's like you were saying, Paulina, sometimes adults are like, sure.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was some caution, like a little bit of um, you know, caution there, just kind of wondering um, you know, what it would actually be like uh to utilize that in the workplace.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we, you know, we talked through that some and I shared with her some of my experiences.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think she did she did find it valuable to work through that.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, when we were renowned, the my partner when we did that for healthcare, uh, my partner right off the very first, she was like, Wow, I love having a framework for this typical conversation.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_04: And then she got into a triggered moment about her boss who left her out of an important meeting and how how she felt.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_04: And we worked through that when we remember how we did three sessions, she worked through that with me.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then I just kind of tried to morph into her boss, like, that must have been really hard for you.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: I'm really sorry that we did that, you know, and just like, you know, what do you need from me?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: And it was just so cool, you could almost see like the healing on her face, and but you know, and my partner, Jenny,'s just sort of doing this with her daughter.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and she saw, again, like you said, about a child, how quickly she just kind of got back online, you know, and that's what I've seen with Jenny as well.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_04: When I start to write right off the bat, that makes sense.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for sharing.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like all of a sudden, you can see their face even changes where they're feeling feeling hurt.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_04: So it it would be such a gift to every organization to have this as the framework for your difficult conversations.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, to me, it's like, what else are we spending our money on than learning than than how to learn how to be uh close with each other and understand each other?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_04: So um, you know, I want to keep shouting it from the rooftop so I know like Dr.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_04: Loma.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I also want to just bring uh I was listening to Sue Johnson since uh Jamie, you are and Eric, you know her work.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: And she talked about the importance of attunement, attunement, attuning to each other, you know, listening to that emotional music.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: And over and over again, I mean, I if I try to have a conversation without my form, I get lost.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: I get lost because my emotions start to overcome, and I get lost in the story, I get lost in responding or defending my position in that moment.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: It is hard to tune into the person's emotional experience if we don't have a framework or if we don't have this guide.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: So even myself, I mean, uh, when I have these conversations, I'm following the form with me, you know, and I have my journal wherever I go to be uh to be a source of uh comfort and a source of security.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh yeah, so this the form, it really gives us that ability to actually tune in into ourselves and tune in into the other person.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is what leadership is all about.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: I really believe that leaders need to learn how to tune in.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I I so agree with you.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: That makes such a great point, Lola.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, it seems like You know, even the few times since not uh using the journal with my partner, uh, you know, she'll say, I don't want to do the book right now, and you know, because um, whatever.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, I'm thinking the only way to do this regulated would be let's get the book and to not do it right now while we're driving or we're upset.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you think about an NFL football coach uses a playbook, you know, the quarterback has the plays on his thing.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_04: Like, why would we want to be able to bring out the playbook?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, this is and I what I love most about this is that you know, there's the the answers are right there for you.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for sharing.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: You're so courageous and strong, you know.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: Thank and it's become a fun, fun thing for me.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: It became kind of you know running little joke with me and Jenny.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: We would get on the elevator and she'd print number two.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: I'd thanks for doing that.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_04: You're so courageous and strong.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: You know, just as we're just getting to where we're just enjoying saying to each other those things, thank you for sharing.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_04: That makes sense.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I mean, it but it's really like and that's why I still think it's so important to talk in attachment terms, anxious, avoidant, disorganized, you know, secure base, safe haven.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like these are the real glossary of understanding how we work.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's my view.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Even even in this room, don't have to agree with me.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just saying that you know, I had someone yesterday say, Oh, you weren't so crazy.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: And it really kind of hurt my feelings.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_04: It should have been you were much less anxious, you were self-regulated.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because I felt demeaned.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_04: But they don't know the attachment terms.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, and I want to do with the EMC process with this, you know, person at another point.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: But it was like, you know, I I know it was encouraging, but it was, hey, that's you know, when we go, when a child, oh, you weren't so crazy today.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_04: That that's so how you were really self-regulated today.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so proud of you.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, well, thank you for sharing, Caric.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're so strong and courageous.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: I appreciate it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, I so very much appreciate all of you being here today.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us, and congratulations on a very successful presentation.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel we are like a hundred steps forward ahead of where this, you know, I think this is especially in the tech world and how everyone's on their phones and using that as a coping mechanism to deal with their emotions.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: I feel we are on the path to bringing people into this experience that that makes them feel connected and closer together and not alone.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate anything else?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Any last words before we close up?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think you're an awesome host.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_04: You do such a great job.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'm telling you.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: You are so good at this.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_04: You're so courageous and strong.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hopefully, this will lead me to my own talk show one day.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for all of you who are watching or listening.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate you.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: We value your time and energy and your desire to create a thriving workplace environment and close connected relationship.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: For more information, you can go to emcleaders.com.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can find us all over the web and social media as well, EMC Leaders and Dr.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Lola Gershfeld.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you next time.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's a joy to share these podcasts with you.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: Be sure to check out our previous podcasts and subscribe to join us at our next podcast of The Leader in You, brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Until then, be well and be focused on your relationships.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you soon.