Latest / Authentic Living / Trying to Lead Well Through COVID 19 with HR Expert, Neil Cosby

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Trying to Lead Well Through COVID 19 with HR Expert, Neil Cosby · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:36
  It's Sal Roxanne Durgesh of authentically being with Roxanne.
• 0:39
  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
• 0:41
  This week, I have a colleague, Neil Cosby.
• 0:43
  Hi, Neil.
• 0:43
  How are you today?
• 0:44
  I'm very well.
• 0:45
  Thank you, Roxanne.
• 0:46
  Happy to be here.
• 0:47
  Awesome.
• 0:48
  So thanks so much for taking the time.
• 0:49
  So Neil's a an HR specialist, and he's from it, his firm co is called are primed.
• 0:55
  So today, what we're gonna do is we're doing a bit of a special episode on, the impact of,
• 1:00
  COVID around performance because there's been some, really interesting things that, Neil's
• 1:06
  company has been seeing in the last 6 to 8 weeks.
• 1:10
  And the implication that has had on leadership.
• 1:13
  So, Neil, I know, you know, in the last little while, I've been, you know, talking about a lot
• 1:18
  of things.
• 1:19
  COVID related, but it's kinda been starting to kind of, I'm gonna say Wayne a bit, you know,
• 1:24
  whereas you know, the podcasts we really haven't been focusing on things as much, those
• 1:28
  types of things COVID related.
• 1:29
  And I know, in the HR and leadership world, there's been a lot of I'm gonna say nuances of,
• 1:36
  you know, ebbs and flows that have been happening.
• 1:39
  So tell kinda tell me what you were sharing with me before we go online.
• 1:43
  Some of the things that you've been starting to see, that HR has been having to deal with in
• 1:48
  the last week or so.
• 1:50
  Yeah.
• 1:51
  It's, it's been interesting.
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  You know, a lot.
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  We've had, a few clients, and I've heard this from some of my other consulting colleagues as
• 1:59
  well, that there's now starting to be some concerns around productivity, which is related
• 2:06
  to performance as well, while in a remote workforce.
• 2:10
  I think at the beginning of this, well, I know at the beginning of this, people tempered their
• 2:15
  expectations when when people had to go work at home.
• 2:19
  Obviously, for some roles, there's no way they could do a 100% of what they were doing if they
• 2:24
  were in an office.
• 2:25
  So I think employers were very much willing to temper their expectations.
• 2:30
  And to a degree, I think they still are, but some of the more stream things that, you know,
• 2:39
  I was told by a couple of clients today was some employers, some employees, sorry, have
• 2:44
  gone to absolute zero in terms of productivity.
• 2:48
  And, you know, from their perspective, there really is no, no no reason for that to be 0.
• 2:57
  They can be can be doing something.
• 3:01
  And somewhat a little surprising, I guess, for me to hear.
• 3:05
  So we we're talking around strategies and and having those somewhat difficult conversations
• 3:11
  with employees to say, look, you know, this can't keep continuing, and trying to get root
• 3:17
  cause of why why that is happening.
• 3:20
  And obviously, the the psychology behind, staying at home and being isolated Could it be
• 3:28
  boredom?
• 3:28
  Could it be mental fatigue?
• 3:31
  Could it be just fear of uncertainty?
• 3:35
  So these are, I think, a number of things that we're gonna be, dealing with and looking at
• 3:40
  and, you know, a lot what a lot of employers will need support with us as the time goes on.
• 3:46
  So that's interesting because I think to some degree, psychologically, most of us were like,
• 3:50
  okay.
• 3:51
  Okay.
• 3:51
  We're gonna get up on this surfboard and we're gonna try to not topple over as badly as we
• 3:56
  know what we can be.
• 3:57
  So people are just kinda trying to shift into this new mode.
• 4:01
  Yeah.
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  And then lately, I've been hearing from a lot of, coaching clients that not a lot of people
• 4:08
  are like, I can't do this anymore.
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  You know, I'm running out of steam.
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  You know, I've I've I've homeschooled the kids enough.
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  I've, you know, I've I've been I'm not you know, I've been doing, you know, like all of
• 4:22
  us, you know, being on on Zoom fest and people are are burnt out from a lot of them.
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  So
• 4:29
  is is do you think that that might be some of the impact that some employers are seeing, or
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  were these employees that they potent potentially had performance related concerns
• 4:37
  before that they let shelves and that it's coming back a little bit, fiercer as as as
• 4:43
  you're seeing?
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  Potentially, that could be Roxanne.
• 4:46
  I'll go directly nobody said that to me.
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  And quite honestly, I haven't asked that question.
• 4:53
  Certainly, with some of my clients, the I know of the employees, and there was never any
• 4:57
  vacation of that.
• 5:00
  But to your point, I mean, when we pre COVID days, when we talked about working at home, for
• 5:08
  and I'll use myself as an example, working at home during the day meant no kids at home.
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  It meant, you know, none of these other kinds of pressures that come with when you've
• 5:20
  suddenly been cast in a remote workplace and you've got kids.
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  You're trying to get your work done and kids are in the background.
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  And that is a bit of a a stressor.
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  I think also and again, some of this is my own personal experience with working in isolation
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  as well, the mental fatigue.
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  I mean, you I really feel, and I don't I'm I don't know about you, But, when you're on,
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  like, a meeting, like, Zoom meeting or anything, your full attention is there.
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  Your your brain is flowing.
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  Your adrenal I find it a different type of pressure if that makes sense.
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  And you can only look at a computer screen for for so long.
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  I think We've gotten away for some people.
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  Some of those rules around.
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  Sit at your computer for 90 minutes.
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  Take 15 minutes and walk away so you don't you know, do any damage to your eyes or anything
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  like that.
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  So it it's and again, a lot of people, maybe there was a novelty about working at home, and
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  they've since found out this isn't for me, and it's not for everybody either.
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  And maybe, you know, the the the discipline of getting up in the morning, and we were having
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  this conversation just before we went on board.
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  You have to treat this like a job.
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  It is get up in the morning.
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  Do your normal routine as if you were going to an office.
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  And And certainly that's something that I'm gonna be, and have been, suggesting to my
• 6:50
  clients to tell their employees is they to get in that mindset and to keep them still engaged
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  is, do what they normally do.
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  Shave.
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  And I as, as you know, I I was yesterday, I had a full grown beard.
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  And as I told you, I decided, I'm gonna I mean
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  You look like a new man today.
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  And, like, on our yesterday call, we do we do a writing group together.
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  He I'm like, wow.
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  Yeah.
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  So I I think it may, you know, that's a a pretty interesting angle because, obviously, as
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  a psychology just I would say that, you know, what we tell people, we talk about screens.
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  We talk about, you know, like, we can only pivot and ready work for 20 minutes and ready
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  to be productive than to go off and than to do something, but sometimes to your point, we're
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  on these Zoom calls.
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  Some of them 60 minutes or, you know, if they peel forward because there's questions.
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  And let's say, you know, we're doing that 6 to 7 hours a day, along with that, we're we're
• 7:50
  intensely to your points focused on, following because we're, you know, you're not sitting
• 7:56
  across from me like we were month ago when I met you at a meeting, certain things we can
• 8:01
  naturally kind of get from being in someone's presence.
• 8:04
  Now we're really I'm ready having to make sure I'm I'm getting every nuance to what you're
• 8:08
  what you're showing me, on your face.
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  I can't see your body.
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  So nonverbally, I'm not able to pick up a lot of those things.
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  So I'm really working with a lot less information or reference communication that I
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  would have naturally been able to be in a room with you, Neil, and be able to pick up certain
• 8:23
  things just by not even trying.
• 8:24
  100%.
• 8:25
  I agree I agree with that totally.
• 8:27
  And, I mean, for the most part, my my experiences and maybe the majority of others,
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  the meetings were on.
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  The, groups were on.
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  They're not contentious in nature.
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  So can you imagine if you have to have a contentious meeting and by no means is, virtual
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  meetings to best way to do this, but given our new reality, that's gonna become that may
• 8:52
  become a new normal for a while as well.
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  And I don't think as employers, you can ignore those conversations when you have such things
• 9:00
  as performance issues or maybe even some misconduct.
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  So So, being able to, you know, more to your point of reading that body language when you're
• 9:11
  in person, those conversations when they're contentious will become a little bit more
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  difficult and, more to that, along my point, more, tiresome.
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  You know, more fatigue from my perspective.
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  Fortunately, I haven't had to have one of those contentious conversations yet.
• 9:30
  But, you know, like I said, we get into those types of things.
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  And eventually, that is gonna happen because the uncertainty around this is, is still there,
• 9:42
  of course.
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  So, So
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  so you know what the difference is is I think it's really it's it's it's time.
• 9:48
  Right?
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  Because Yep.
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  When I was doing these interviews 6 weeks ago, what we were talking about is how do we
• 9:53
  communicate more effectively virtually?
• 9:55
  How do we connect with their teams?
• 9:57
  You know, you know, what kind of software do you need to be able to implement, you know,
• 10:02
  like know, make sure you all have a sauna and all those things that you're, you know, all the
• 10:06
  all the practical things, that some people may be potentially hybrid.
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  They were doing some virtual, but they were in office, some in FaceTime, those types of
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  things.
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  But here, we're talking more about, and I, you know, from some of the one to one coaching
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  clients that I'm talking about, they're talking about I am just tired.
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  If I hear one more client say that to me, you know, that they are fatigued.
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  They're not sure really why they're fatigued.
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  Their their schedule's not any different.
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  Yes.
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  They have all the pressures we're talking about.
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  Potentially, And some people don't have kids at home in that the kids are kind of staged out or
• 10:40
  maybe they're living on their own.
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  But people are talking about, I, I feel really, really hired, and they they seem to be a lot
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  more anxious.
• 10:49
  Yeah.
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  And I would concur with that wholeheartedly.
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  My opinion is It's those other outliers that are having, you know, as well as work, as well
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  as, you know, productivity trying to stay engaged.
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  Those other outliers, of I'm trying not to get sick.
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  I'm trying to protect my family.
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  And that can be you have all that.
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  And I don't know if you've heard this, Roxanne, but certainly I have people's sleep patterns
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  are totally disrupted.
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  Mhmm.
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  People are waking up at, for 2 hours in the middle of the night just thinking And, some
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  people have said they've described it to me as not anxious, not stressful, but I'm just
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  thinking And I think, you know what?
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  That's normal in this time because we have never dealt with anything like this in our in
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  our lives.
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  I I I I've often been quoting, my grandparents who I'm originally from England my grandparents
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  were they were alive and living in England when World War 2 was on.
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  And I remember the conversations recalling them more and more about, you know, the uncertainty
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  of those days.
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  And even when the tide of the war was changing and, it looked like they were going to defeat
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  the Germans.
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  It was still uncertainty.
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  You didn't know if there was gonna be a last minute assault and, England was invaded.
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  And I recall, you know, my grandfather on my dad's side in particular saying it was
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  tiresome.
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  So worrying can be tiring for sure.
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  And although we may not show it in other ways or think that we're not tired, How can you not
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  be impacted by this?
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  Okay.
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  And you've got a million pieces of information coming at you.
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  We know that there are still some people out there that do not see this as a real threat.
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  And and, again, from my own personal experience, do I do I think about Yeah.
• 12:52
  I do.
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  But I defer myself to the experts that are saying this is not the flu.
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  This is more infectious.
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  This is more dangerous.
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  But it's tiresome as well and somewhat frustrating.
• 13:05
  I think when you see those conspiracy theorists, those, people that are saying, why
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  are we having a complete economic shutdown?
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  There's there's no reason for this and you know, more even more frustrating, given the
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  fact I have 2 parents in their seventies, it's just impacting old people.
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  What do we care?
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  Right.
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  And and, you know, like, to your point, I'll give you my example.
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  My mom needed she there was no right way around her.
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  She had to see the doctor yesterday.
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  So, of course, so, you know, I you know, going to take her and Yep.
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  You know, not really going on in that, you know, and I'm trying to act like, you know,
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  okay, my mom, it's fine.
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  We'll do this and And so we got you know, I had some really, nice homemade masks.
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  So I got Mitchell.
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  We had them.
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  And but even the when I got to the doctor's office.
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  Now she's in Mississauga.
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  Yeah.
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  And so, you know, I've not already been out of town, and then I go and then just the reaction.
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  So I'm I'm taking her in she's, you know, my mom's in a walker.
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  She, you know, had a stroke a couple years ago.
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  And so I'm trying to get in the doctor's office, but, apparently, there's these big
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  signs that says, You got I had to call before to let them know should so I didn't know that
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  protocol.
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  So I'm, like, reefing on the door.
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  And then, you know, and then getting alarmed because I'm at the door because now there's
• 14:21
  another person behind me, apparently, that's supposed to be coming in.
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  And so it was just you know, and I'm a pretty level person generally, but now I'm now I start
• 14:29
  to worry because my mom's not well.
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  And I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I mean, because they're reacting to us on top of it.
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  Plus filling the prescription that she needed.
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  So I think you're right.
• 14:38
  It's it's it's so many things that are unconscious, and you know, like, you know, with
• 14:43
  from a from a perspective that so much of us functions unconsciously Yes.
• 14:48
  That I wonder the impact of that and the fact that we've been at this 6.
• 14:52
  It's almost 7 weeks now.
• 14:54
  Right?
• 14:54
  Yep.
• 14:55
  I I I would think, you know, if you're if we get down the road what can the leaders of
• 15:03
  organizations do to try to support their people in this is I think their need there needs to be
• 15:09
  a push to contact the EAP if you were able to provide that.
• 15:12
  Get the mental health piece is really coming into play here now.
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  Any kind of novelty that there was for this has long gone.
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  It's now, and we need to manage our people's mental health mode.
• 15:27
  And, and ensure that they're staying safe and psychologically safe and to a, to a very, very
• 15:34
  large degree employers have that obligation, even though people are working remotely, that
• 15:40
  is still the workplace.
• 15:41
  So, maintaining some psychological safety And, you know, I think we, I've said this all along,
• 15:50
  even business wise, we need to be innovative, we need to be creative, we need to be agile,
• 15:56
  and adjust to these changing circumstances, as they as they move along.
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  We can absolutely have our longer term plans but there's gotta be contingencies.
• 16:07
  There's gotta be a, b, c, or d.
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  But managing your employees is should be a number one priority if this is going to be the
• 16:16
  the way of the work world for quite a while.
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  And more to that, when this is all over, and it will be over.
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  Employers are gonna remember how their employers treated them during this.
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  And, that's gonna send a strong message after that.
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  So, Randy, what I hear, right, is that we need to management or leadership needs to take a
• 16:36
  pivot and really maybe plant a flag and talk a little bit more about mental health.
• 16:41
  Because
• 16:41
  I do.
• 16:41
  Yes.
• 16:42
  Yeah.
• 16:42
  Cause if you're talking about the things you're seeing and I'm talking about things that I'm
• 16:46
  seeing, reality is gone of the days where, you know, say 3 weeks ago where we're talking
• 16:52
  about, we will adjust.
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  We'll through this.
• 16:55
  We'll flatten out the curve.
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  Those types of things.
• 16:57
  That that language now is okay.
• 16:59
  We're past that point.
• 17:00
  Yeah.
• 17:01
  And now it's let's be realistic about where we're at what's really happening with people
• 17:07
  and versus we'll get through this.
• 17:09
  The question becomes innovative from an from a leadership perspective How do you pivot so you
• 17:15
  can assist people?
• 17:16
  And maybe you need to start to be talking a little bit more openly about mental health.
• 17:20
  I think so.
• 17:21
  I think, just as you and I are doing, I think, managers, leaders need to talk about their own
• 17:26
  experiences.
• 17:27
  Make themselves a little bit vulnerable because some people may not wanna talk about this.
• 17:32
  It's not always easy for some people to discuss how they're feeling for a variety of reasons.
• 17:38
  And going back to your point of, you know, adjusting 2 or 3 weeks ago or 4 weeks ago,
• 17:42
  saying adjusting will be agile.
• 17:44
  We'll get through this There was nothing wrong with those statements.
• 17:47
  That was a good a good start.
• 17:49
  But more to your point about pivoting, yeah, now we need some concrete strategies.
• 17:54
  We need some concrete actions.
• 17:57
  And, whether it's a a, you know, you can do I believe, you know, we sorry.
• 18:05
  Just lost my train of thought.
• 18:06
  We I've said from the beginning that we are built for this to get through this because of
• 18:12
  the virtual technology we have.
• 18:14
  Can you imagine if this had happened 30, 25, maybe than 20 years ago?
• 18:18
  We this would be far, far worse.
• 18:22
  Yes.
• 18:22
  So utilize and leverage the technology.
• 18:26
  I truly believe and, I I've expressed this, although I haven't created anything, you can
• 18:31
  have a virtual wellness day.
• 18:34
  Where, you know, you you you created to so it's something fun for people.
• 18:40
  In the absence And I say that because in the absence of, going, you know, people being able
• 18:47
  to meet at a restaurant or a club or a bar or a coffee shop, people are being creative and
• 18:54
  having virtual get togethers.
• 18:56
  And I've participated in a couple myself, and there are a lot of fun.
• 19:00
  You can get you can you can get funny and silly and and, and only one involved alcohol, by the
• 19:06
  way.
• 19:08
  But it's just a it's just a new way of having fun.
• 19:11
  Is it sustainable?
• 19:13
  I believe it can be for a while.
• 19:16
  Again, it's just that innovate innovation creativity constantly constantly looking,
• 19:21
  what's the next issue or challenge that might be around the corner and, you know, coming up
• 19:27
  with the strategies to resolve that, which is certainly something I I, am, as well as a lot
• 19:34
  of other people I know are concentrating on is what are the possible scenarios And that's the
• 19:41
  that's where we have to be right now.
• 19:44
  And I, you know, that's that's interesting, right, because you I I know I spent like 20
• 19:48
  years in the EAP field and, you know, you do see a lot of the bigger providers having a lot
• 19:54
  of online platforms But I think the languaging has to come from leadership, like, like you're
• 20:01
  saying, like, you're talking about scenarios.
• 20:03
  I'm talking about scenarios.
• 20:05
  We're all a bit anxious.
• 20:06
  And if anybody were to tell you they're not they're they're not anxious, I think they'd be
• 20:09
  lying to you.
• 20:10
  Should be known.
• 20:11
  100%.
• 20:11
  Right?
• 20:12
  And, yes, we all we all deal with our IT in different ways.
• 20:16
  But at the end of the day, you know, there's fear.
• 20:18
  Like you said, your your parents are you're in your in their seventies.
• 20:21
  My mom and dad are in the late seventies, early eighties.
• 20:25
  So there's that even though you're thinking, oh, we're doing everything that's needed.
• 20:28
  There's the fear that any of us could lose our loved ones, right,
• 20:31
  which is
• 20:31
  the reality.
• 20:32
  You know?
• 20:33
  Yeah.
• 20:33
  And in this state, in in these times, and I try not to think about this too much, anybody's
• 20:39
  parent can get sick now you know, hopefully, it doesn't happen pass away, and you will never
• 20:47
  you the only time you've seen them is virtually.
• 20:49
  And then we get into the funeral.
• 20:53
  So
• 20:53
  Yeah.
• 20:54
  Yeah.
• 20:55
  Nobody should we, you know, do I encourage people to be thinking about that?
• 20:59
  Well, it it's certainly there.
• 21:01
  I think we need to be aware of it.
• 21:04
  I I myself I mean, I've got 2 teenage kids.
• 21:07
  One's eighteen, and I've had these conversations with my teenage daughter about
• 21:11
  what are you gonna do if something happens to me or your mom because this is a reality now.
• 21:16
  Yeah.
• 21:17
  And, she doesn't wanna have that conversation.
• 21:19
  And, you know, while we have to be sensitive to this, I I think we have to face some of the
• 21:26
  potential situations that could happen that are are not very nice to think about.
• 21:31
  Self.
• 21:32
  Let's let's let's let's try to brainstorm then for what potential things leadership should be
• 21:36
  considering.
• 21:37
  I heard some that I love the idea about a wellness day.
• 21:40
  Yes.
• 21:41
  I you know, so what would something like that you what do you think from an HR perspective
• 21:45
  that should encompass?
• 21:47
  It could be anything from a, you know, let's, let's do, online.
• 21:54
  I have a a colleague She provides corporate wellness in the form of she's Polynesian, and,
• 22:01
  she does, Polynesian dance.
• 22:04
  It's called Calani.
• 22:05
  And she's been she's been doing this online.
• 22:09
  And I've I hooked her up with a couple of clients Mhmm.
• 22:12
  That we're looking for things like that.
• 22:15
  And, you know, so those are things that can be done.
• 22:20
  Start a virtual workout group god, I am missing the gym.
• 22:25
  I was, you know, I was there very regularly, and I think a lot of people are are missing out
• 22:31
  on that physical exercise piece, which, as we know, is certainly connected to mental health.
• 22:36
  Mhmm.
• 22:36
  It is, I can honestly say it is not the same working out at home.
• 22:41
  But if you have other people doing it with you, it becomes a little bit more fun.
• 22:46
  So there's things like that.
• 22:49
  Doing a virtual cooking group.
• 22:51
  I mean, you know, in the workplace, we used to have potlucks and international, you know, so
• 22:56
  show each other how how to cook and be in each other's kitchen and just have a lot of laughs,
• 23:01
  and don't drink too much wine or sherry.
• 23:03
  That's for the that's for the food.
• 23:06
  So It's, those are just some of the ideas that you can do.
• 23:09
  Or even team building, Neil.
• 23:11
  Like, if you think about it, right, if we're addressing, we're talking about, you know, you
• 23:15
  know, the anxiety or, you know, now it's kinda like now what?
• 23:20
  Right?
• 23:20
  Like, it's been I've been doing this, and I thought it was gonna be done by now.
• 23:24
  And, you know, what kind of what kind of tips and tricks that people could share and they
• 23:27
  could share about what they've been doing or, you know, like you said, having the Zoom family
• 23:32
  calls or
• 23:34
  You know?
• 23:35
  I'm even thinking, you know, having leadership just pulled together and ask what's working,
• 23:40
  what's not, and Although that's more of a business related thing, for me, the optimum
• 23:48
  goal is to get people to open up to talk about their the other things that are going on
• 23:52
  because I think people need to be heard.
• 23:54
  They wanna be heard.
• 23:55
  If all you've got is your kids and your dog or your cat, you're not being heard.
• 24:00
  And again, for some people, over phone or virtually talking to somebody, that's just not
• 24:06
  gonna cut it.
• 24:07
  They need that face to face.
• 24:09
  So if I'm saying I'm feeling one thing and you're feeling it, it opens up the door so much
• 24:14
  more.
• 24:14
  It just takes that one opening.
• 24:17
  And, I believe that, you know, the rest, the rest will follow when they're feeling it.
• 24:22
  So, one of the other things, if I can just segue into another thing, Roxanne is you know,
• 24:30
  you see these memes on Facebook and quite frankly, I may I laugh at them too, but,
• 24:35
  alcohol consumption during the day.
• 24:38
  I really That's come up a couple of times with a couple of calls.
• 24:41
  Yeah.
• 24:42
  Yeah.
• 24:42
  Yeah.
• 24:42
  And, you know, I think employers need to be mindful of that.
• 24:48
  And not try to, in in whatever way they can just you know, certainly the expectation when
• 24:56
  you're at work is you won't drink at work.
• 24:59
  So try not to I think and again, with no disrespect and no judgment, I think employers
• 25:05
  at the beginning, there was a little bit of tempering of there at home.
• 25:09
  Mhmm.
• 25:09
  But you know, again, from what I've seen, what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing, it that's
• 25:16
  starting to become an issue if it's not an issue already.
• 25:18
  Right.
• 25:18
  And and it also issues are on domestic violence too.
• 25:21
  Right?
• 25:22
  Like, I mean Absolutely.
• 25:23
  I think if we think of what what have been happening internally within a workplace,
• 25:27
  whatever whatever the issues were, what would keep people away from work, then now people are
• 25:32
  at home, and they're, you know, there there's no need to call in sick, because, you know, I'm
• 25:38
  I'm ex I'm I can work.
• 25:39
  I have a computer.
• 25:40
  I, you know, I can I have a phone?
• 25:41
  I can do all those things, but that along with a compounded stress, of, like you said, we
• 25:46
  don't, you know, you're not going out for that quick coffee with that friend that tells you
• 25:51
  the funny jokes and makes you forget about what you're dealing with at work or you know, all,
• 25:56
  you know, all the loss that you're feeling, even though you're seeing someone, you know,
• 26:00
  you enjoy spending time seeing people in your as those types of things.
• 26:04
  We've lost all our friendships.
• 26:06
  We've, you know, we've tried our best, and I know I do, but still, I'm not seeing my
• 26:10
  friends.
• 26:11
  I'm not seeing my family all those things.
• 26:14
  It it it it it it it is I could see how it's a cumulative effect that, maybe impacting
• 26:19
  productivity.
• 26:20
  If I go back to my organizational behavior books, the majority of people, the reason they
• 26:27
  stay in working relationships is because with an employer is because of the social
• 26:32
  relationships they build.
• 26:34
  And, again, some people may not be may not be totally conscious of that.
• 26:40
  So that's definitely another contributor to some of this.
• 26:45
  People are kinda getting fed up with this some people are kinda getting fed up with this
• 26:49
  remote work.
• 26:51
  The other thing that pops into my mind is we're talking is challenging work is the, you know,
• 26:57
  and this goes back to if people aren't doing the full scope of their job and the employer's
• 27:02
  okay with that, is it's still challenging for them, because some people, they need that
• 27:07
  challenge in their work life.
• 27:09
  And if they don't get it, they get bored pretty easy.
• 27:13
  And, you know, we all know that to some degree, like, stream more than others, the work that we
• 27:19
  don't like, we tend to avoid in some capacity.
• 27:23
  Of course.
• 27:24
  So things might be piling up.
• 27:26
  So for for managers that are now pivoting and managing virtually.
• 27:32
  Yeah.
• 27:33
  And so for maybe employers that might listen to this and say, wow.
• 27:38
  We may be having an issue.
• 27:40
  Mhmm.
• 27:40
  Or we may be missing Lamar what could be some ways that they could, you know, and I'm not I'm
• 27:45
  not suggesting a witch hunt in any way by all means.
• 27:48
  But what if you're seeing these patterns, one could assume that these are patents that are
• 27:52
  existing in different sectors.
• 27:54
  Yep.
• 27:55
  Yeah.
• 27:55
  So individual check ins are always good.
• 27:58
  I I mean, if you are an organization that was doing coaching sessions as part of your
• 28:03
  performance management system, no reason for you to stop.
• 28:06
  Keep check.
• 28:06
  Keep doing those.
• 28:07
  They're they're crucial to getting a sense of where the employer the employee is at.
• 28:12
  Sorry.
• 28:14
  You know, maybe now at 6 or 7 weeks.
• 28:18
  Maybe now is is a time to do kind of an impromptu quality of work life survey to find
• 28:24
  out people may not want to speak to you for the record, but you do an anonymous quality of work
• 28:30
  life on where people are at.
• 28:32
  That can be a very good indicator as well.
• 28:35
  More to your point that you said a bit ago about keeping the lines of communication open,
• 28:40
  that has never stopped.
• 28:41
  We just need to possibly amp it up a little bit because, people are now starting to feel the
• 28:48
  the the stress of, working in a remote workplace and, with, no end in sight.
• 28:56
  So
• 28:57
  And maybe rerolling out their EAP programs, That might be an opportunity at this point.
• 29:01
  Right?
• 29:02
  That's probably a good thing.
• 29:04
  You know, maybe to start to do more of their, you know, lunch and learns that they have as
• 29:09
  part of their quality, quarterly contract, things around, work life balance.
• 29:14
  Maybe a shifting of work life balance and what it means now because there's no balance
• 29:18
  anymore.
• 29:19
  Yeah.
• 29:19
  And, strategies for things like managing boredom or anxiety you know, how to how to have
• 29:26
  fun?
• 29:27
  Because I think that's the one thing that I, you know, you've mentioned it a couple times
• 29:30
  and That's, you know, you know, with my girlfriends, we we got on the phone the other
• 29:35
  day, and we were just silly.
• 29:37
  And we were talking about nothing and everything.
• 29:40
  And that's the part that I missed more than ever.
• 29:43
  Of course, I miss seeing them, but, you know, it was stupid at times.
• 29:46
  And then I was like, woah.
• 29:48
  Like, getting all of them as many of them as we could on Zoom was so we Everybody sent I I set
• 29:54
  it all up, and I said, everybody said, oh my goodness.
• 29:56
  That was the best thing because we laughed and we chuckled and, you know, stuff like that.
• 30:03
  And told jokes.
• 30:04
  And so I think that's the part that may be lacking also.
• 30:07
  Like, you know, okay, we can do this.
• 30:09
  We can do this 7 weeks.
• 30:10
  It's 8 weeks now.
• 30:11
  Okay.
• 30:11
  And and people aren't having the kind of fund that they used to before.
• 30:15
  Agreed.
• 30:15
  And, I mean, as we're talking, I mean, ideas just keep popping in my head about how to
• 30:20
  possibly alleviate this.
• 30:22
  So why not at noon?
• 30:23
  Everybody take a virtual lunch together.
• 30:25
  And those are the times when you're silly and laid back with your with your fellow employees.
• 30:31
  And, you know, you can make fun of whatever everybody's eating if they're eating because
• 30:36
  I'm also hearing a lot of people are just we're going lunch, surviving on coffee.
• 30:42
  So, you know, there there are a lot of creative ways.
• 30:45
  We can try to manage this and manage it successfully tempering expectations as well.
• 30:53
  And, again, as you've said, we can't stress communication enough in all of this.
• 30:59
  So
• 31:00
  So that's just pivoting communication, so it looks different.
• 31:03
  Right?
• 31:03
  Like, so we kind of think less the flow down.
• 31:06
  I don't think I think we should need to do that, but just an employer's have to think
• 31:10
  about how are we becoming more vulnerable in some way so that people I if I'm the CEO, and
• 31:17
  you're in my senior team.
• 31:19
  Am I acting so put together, even though I may be also struggling?
• 31:23
  Mhmm.
• 31:24
  Because I'm thinking, boy, how much more of of a this can I take?
• 31:27
  And my senior team is probably feeling the same things, but I'm not sharing that because I'm
• 31:31
  supposed to kinda keep things going.
• 31:34
  And that's a good point as we've been talking, you know, I've been and I had this thought
• 31:37
  before I came in.
• 31:39
  Even I think even for managers and leaders, the stress upon them is even more because quite
• 31:44
  frankly, and I don't say this disrespectfully.
• 31:46
  They have they're having to take care of a lot of employees in a very different way.
• 31:52
  And I mean, part of it also could be, you know, if the company is still maintaining success or
• 31:59
  has adjusted their success expectations, share that with employees so that they know what
• 32:05
  you're doing is still important to us, and we need you to still be working at as much
• 32:12
  capacity as you can.
• 32:15
  You know, sometimes team meetings, involved from my experience, a good story of the day.
• 32:22
  And that's not just in the nonprofit world.
• 32:24
  That's in the private world.
• 32:26
  Well.
• 32:26
  What did what did we do that was really good today?
• 32:29
  And I still think you can have those success stories when, you're you're still working
• 32:35
  remotely.
• 32:36
  And I cannot assure you as I'm sure you're well aware of that anybody who's talking to clients,
• 32:42
  to customers, to, you know, vendors, you're all leaning on in each other.
• 32:47
  I know for myself, I've had those those you're sharing things and maybe you're sharing things
• 32:53
  with people that you normally wouldn't share
• 32:55
  Yeah.
• 32:55
  Because of the situation.
• 32:56
  And, you know, for the most part, I don't think that's a bad thing.
• 33:00
  As we keep saying, we're all in this together, and, complete strangers will probably become
• 33:06
  good friends after this just because of the nature of relationships.
• 33:10
  One of the thing I thought of, Neil, is what about maybe the leaders or managers in pressing
• 33:16
  on people that mental health days are still a part of the norm.
• 33:21
  So I think I think of it, you know, you know, of course, people would take the mental health
• 33:25
  days just because, but they would if they would be in person, but ready to be able to have it
• 33:30
  so that people could just take a day off way they can just shut off, you know, like you
• 33:35
  said, stay in the pajamas, play with their kids, you know, cook all day.
• 33:39
  Do whatever they want.
• 33:40
  So I think that permissiveness may may actually give, and not not suggesting that, you know,
• 33:45
  everybody do it all at once, but so that people are aware that if you're really, really having
• 33:49
  a tough time that you, you know, if you haven't slept that night or, you know, your kids aren't
• 33:53
  doing well or whatever, that you can take that to kind of, give yourself a bit of a break and
• 33:59
  then come back in with a bit more, you know, higher level of productivity, you know, for the
• 34:03
  rest of the week.
• 34:04
  And I was having a somewhat related conversation with client today who is still
• 34:10
  going to encourage people to take their if this stretches out into the summer months, they're
• 34:16
  still going to encourage people to take vacation.
• 34:19
  And by vacation, they really mean, okay.
• 34:21
  You may not be able to go to Wissauga Beach.
• 34:24
  You may be confined to your backyard or your front porch, but you're away from the computer.
• 34:29
  Right.
• 34:30
  You're you're taking that time, which is very much owed to you, which you've earned.
• 34:36
  Mhmm.
• 34:36
  Take your week or 2 week and just turn off your computer.
• 34:40
  Do not check-in at work or anything like that.
• 34:43
  And if people need that, this particular client said, you know, they're very open that if
• 34:47
  people need that now, They're very much willing to take to to, approve that.
• 34:55
  So, yes, people need to take advantage of the time that they have available to them to, take
• 35:02
  care of other things, not have that, weight of, it may not be stressed.
• 35:06
  It just may be weight of work on them, and then they can concentrate on family and home.
• 35:12
  And, that's all that's it's one less thing that is weighing on them for sure.
• 35:18
  So we can
• 35:19
  Well, Neil, this has been an impressive, 45 minutes.
• 35:22
  There's so many things You know?
• 35:24
  Has it been 45 minutes?
• 35:25
  Yes.
• 35:25
  It's been it's been a yeah.
• 35:27
  Oh, yes.
• 35:28
  But, you know, I think this has been so engaging because I think this is the first time
• 35:34
  I've had a conversation of this nature because I've already not talked to people about you
• 35:39
  know, you're seeing it all over social and you're hearing people talking about it, but to
• 35:42
  actually talk about someone that's in companies from an HR I think it really brings to fruition
• 35:47
  where where we're at.
• 35:48
  And maybe in a month from now, we'll be having a different conversation.
• 35:52
  Absolutely.
• 35:52
  You know, that would be interesting based on whether we're we're starting to get out there
• 35:56
  or if we're still maintaining, then that means we may have a new iteration of what how people
• 36:00
  are coping a month from now.
• 36:02
  Yeah.
• 36:02
  And I think, you know, it's it's probably obvious to say that if there is an easy if
• 36:07
  we're in a position to have an easing of restrictions and people are able to get out a
• 36:12
  little bit, that's gonna have a positive impact for sure.
• 36:15
  So Absolutely.
• 36:16
  Absolutely.
• 36:17
  I would, yeah, I'll, it we again, I just go back, at least from my perspective, agility,
• 36:24
  and, it's an always evolving situation.
• 36:29
  So, yeah, but I do believe that at some point, this is all this will all be over.
• 36:35
  And, you know, we will come out of this in a in a better way for sure.
• 36:41
  So
• 36:41
  Well, Neil, thanks again, for taking your time.
• 36:45
  I I think, anyone listening, whether you're a leader or, other HR professionals, managers,
• 36:51
  I'm sure there's a lot or people at home can relate to what we've been speaking about.
• 36:56
  So, what I would say is the, where can people get a hold of you if there's people that are
• 37:01
  needing HR, support at this time, where could they reach you at?
• 37:07
  Yep.
• 37:07
  So we have a website www.hrprimedot CA.
• 37:11
  Our con there's some contact information there.
• 37:14
  I can be reached at neilneil@hrprimed.ca HR prime is is spelled exactly as it sounds, h r p
• 37:23
  r I m e d.
• 37:25
  And you know, or you can contact me directly on my phone.
• 37:30
  905-929-5075, and I appreciate the opportunity to to put that out there.
• 37:36
  Sam.
• 37:37
  Thanks so much.
• 37:38
  So for everyone, we're in it.
• 37:41
  This is different.
• 37:42
  We may be a bit more bored and anxious.
• 37:45
  You know, try to, do something smaller that's a little bit different, but definitely connect
• 37:52
  And if you're an employee, reach out to your employer just to let them know what you're
• 37:58
  needing and to utilize your EAP key services.
• 38:01
  And that what that is is most companies have them.
• 38:03
  If there are no services, what you could do is also reach out to me, and I'll let you know
• 38:07
  whether service is available.
• 38:09
  So, again, Neil, thanks for your time.
• 38:12
  And this is Roxanne Derhodge the authentic connection Movement.
• 38:14
  I'm a mental health and wellness specialist.
• 38:16
  If you're needing to support, give me a call at rock Derhodge.
• 38:22
  Take care.
• 38:23
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne creating the space for positive,
• 38:29
  healthy change.
• 38:30
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 38:36
  roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 38:40
  We'll see you next time.
• 38:42
  An authentic living with Roxanne.