Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 207. Tips for Starting Out As a Refrigeration Technician with Patrick Connolly of Climarite

Transcript

Episode 207. Tips for Starting Out As a Refrigeration Technician with Patrick Connolly of Climarite · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Patrick: The other thing is to just, if you're with a bigger company, there's going to be certain people that you want to fall in with, you know, you're looking for experienced guys that are willing to help you, you know, if you hold your hand up, you'll make mistakes for sure. Everyone makes mistakes, so don't be afraid to make them.
• 0:01
  Just be honest.
• 0:02
  Trevor: Welcome to the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast. I'm your host, Trevor Matthews, as a former technician turned entrepreneur. My goal is to really help train you, educate you, and mentor you in the commercial refrigeration industry. Each week I'm going to have top guests from technicians, to manufacturers, to experts around the world to really help us grow and learn together by sharing their knowledge in commercial refrigeration, commercial HVAC, and not only on the technical side, but really the professional and the personal development side as well.
• 0:03
  I'm really excited that you're here. Now let's get a conversation going. As I talk about all the time, refrigeration is such an amazing industry and you can meet such great people from different parts of the world. And it's so important that you spend the time to meet more people. You know, I talk about this all the time about networking, growing, growing your network, and it's important to, uh, think about.
• 0:04
  How other people made their way through the refrigeration industry, because it's a uniquely, it's unique in a way that each of us work towards the same goal and refrigeration, and that is to get our licenses, to make more money, to build a career and my next guest, Patrick Connelly, he has a similar journey as me started out, uh, as a technician engineer, and then he And I have all the world working as a refrigeration technician, working his way up to owning his own business, uh, climber, right.
• 0:05
  And I'm super excited to get into this conversation today, learn a bit more about his journey. So you can get a great understanding on, uh, on different people from around the world on how they do it. Patrick, welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast.
• 0:06
  Patrick: Hi, it's Trevor. Thanks for having me, mate.
• 0:07
  Trevor: Patrick, I know we, we caught up on LinkedIn a few times.
• 0:08
  You've been following Refrigeration Mentor for a while. I'd love to just get in, let's talk a little bit about your story, how you got into refrigeration and, uh, and what it's looked like so far for you.
• 0:09
  Patrick: Yeah. So I think the first time was my family business is, uh, Trawlers and fishing. So my two eldest brothers are involved in the fishing industry.
• 0:10
  And I remember I was doing my Leaving Cert, which is, uh, the end of high school, if you like, in Ireland. Doing my Leaving Cert, and my brother came home, who was, uh, who was fishing. See, she needed to get into refrigeration. I'm after, uh, My ice machine broke down after charging me a fortune that I need to get you into refrigeration.
• 0:11
  So I said, I'll give it a go. So I emailed a couple of local companies and back then, I think it was like 2002 email wasn't as much of a thing as it is now, you know? So they received it. I remember talking to them. They received it was the first email they ever left from a, from a guy looking for a job. So pretty much one of the biggest companies in Ireland, Carl Langdell, Irish Refrigeration, took me on.
• 0:12
  And, uh, yeah, it was, um, started off there, they do all aspects of commercial refrigeration. So supermarkets, butchers, pubs and clubs, anything you can think of. So got a good apprenticeship there. Um, but obviously I was pretty raw coming out of it, you know, at the end of it all. So, um, there's just so much to learn, I suppose, in refrigeration, isn't it?
• 0:13
  Trevor: Yeah, that's the thing. So you're a first gen refrigeration technician, just like me, just figuring out as you go, right? Um, that, that was good advice from, from your brother getting refrigeration because there is so much to it and all it was, it was a nice machine. You know, it's like my ice machine broke down and it cost a fortune to get it fixed.
• 0:14
  And that, and right there, that gave me, sparked the idea of refrigeration. So your first, first four or five years with this company, what are some of the things that you learned about? Because refrigeration, especially getting into it, starting out young, like you, um, what were, what were your, some of your thoughts, uh, when you first began?
• 0:15
  Patrick: Uh, so I started off on installation. I think most apprentices probably start on install, don't they? I think it's a climate. Across the board is what happened. You go and install as a second man, um, thrown in some pipes in supermarkets. And then basically from that, you, what, what happened to me was I done install as a second man for about two years, and then they tend to put.
• 0:16
  Apprentices, if they got a little bit of it, and we tend to put them in their own van after two and a half years or so and go on service. So you're going attending basic faults, whether it's like a water leak or a noisy fan or, and then you kind of build your confidence from that. You make your mistakes, you learn along the way.
• 0:17
  And, uh, so yeah, the first two years was installation. The second two years of my four year apprenticeship was on service. Um, so. I got a good mixture of both. There was air con in there. There was refrigeration in there. Not so many ice machines, but, um, I learned about them a little bit further on down the lines.
• 0:18
  But, um, yeah, that was, that was kind of what I got a good apprenticeship, Anglo Irish for sure.
• 0:19
  Trevor: Yeah. And then this is my advice to apprentice who want to get into at least commercial refrigeration. So the supermarket refrigerator, I knew I wanted to get into commercial refrigeration, but it was the only jobs that were available were in.
• 0:20
  Installation, you know, building the stores, rentals, remodels, night work. This is the hard stuff. It's not easy when you get your first refrigeration job and you're working, uh, from 9 PM to 9 AM every day for three months, you know, so it's a tough start, but I had to move, I had to move 2000 kilometers to, to get a job that I wanted, that I was looking for.
• 0:21
  Right. So I wasn't, I wasn't worried about having to move to start my career because I knew I wanted to get in. Uh, to commercial refrigeration. And I did the same thing. Started in, uh, a couple of years doing, uh, construction, and I moved into the service side, which I'm, I'm grateful for because I think most technicians who have both construction and service backgrounds become some of the best technicians out there and thoughts on that.
• 0:22
  Patrick: Yeah, it's good to get a little flavor of both. I think, you know, the, the, the work ethic side of it comes from the installation, doesn't it? It's physical, it's hard, it's night shift, it's like 12 hours, it's a lot of the time, it's awkward, you know, and then you're looking at, I found, I was looking at my mates who had, you know, worked for Irish Rail on the, on the railways.
• 0:23
  And they got a cushy number, they're like nine to five and I'm down in the middle of County Cork on nights in the freezing cold, get me head blown off. So it's like, I did question it a couple of times when I was young, you know, but it did, it's, it's the install side of it. You need to get, I love, I take on apprentices now at the minute.
• 0:24
  I got two apprentices with me at the minute and obviously I want them to do both. There's no good for, for my company or for, for what I reckon to give. Guys, the proper training, if you can, it's not always possible, but if you can do some installation, do some service, and then both of them will kind of marry in after that, you know, you'll be pretty much be able to do most, most jobs in the trade.
• 0:25
  So I would, um, that's the way I'd look at it anyway. Would you agree with that?
• 0:26
  Trevor: Yeah, definitely. I like, I really try to. coach people to do both, you know, whatever way you can, for me, if you, if you get into service first, that's fine, but you got to get this construction side to see how it's built, how it's created, how it's designed to, to really get the, the background of.
• 0:27
  Building a store because I've made so many mistakes in construction that I learned, wow, this wasn't the right way to do it in service. And I've seen a lot of people who've done service that don't really understand construction and why people design and do things the way they do. So I think the good blend is, is doing both agree or disagree with me, but that's, I think it's a good blend.
• 0:28
  Both like that. So you finished that, that your first role doing some construction and service. And then what was the next step in your refrigeration journey?
• 0:29
  Patrick: Okay. So me in Ireland, it's a four year apprentice. I'm not sure what it is, where you are, but it's a four year apprentice. Yeah. Same. Um, I'd done my apprenticeship and I always, at the time there was people going traveling, you know, Australia was on the cards.
• 0:30
  I had a couple of friends that had been and come back and they really raved about it, you know, so I said, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to try it for a year. I got my qualifications, uh, I think in the August and in March 2007 or 2008, I I just went to Australia with a bite on my back. Uh, I had a friend over there, so catch up with him, caught up with him.
• 0:31
  Um, and yeah, the first couple I had, I had a couple of five or 6, 000 euros saved up and just blew that within a couple of months on partying and traveling and all the rest of it. Looking back, I just wasn't great at managing money. Uh, and then I said, geez, I need to get a job here. So I landed in Australia on a one year visa.
• 0:32
  And got the opportunity to work again, going back to the supermarkets to work, uh, for a supermarket company on installation. So the company looked after coals and wool worked supermarkets over there. Um, Ian Suffield was the Australian guy's name. He took a bit of a punt on me. Now it was living, obviously we were based in Sydney.
• 0:33
  This was working in rural Australia. So it was like six hours away from Sydney and in a town called Narrabri, uh, doing a coal supermarket. So I was there for a few months. And luckily it tied in, the rules in Australia, you probably know this Trevor, the rules in Australia, you have to work in rural Australia for a period of three months to get your second year visa.
• 0:34
  Now a lot of my mates and stuff were going fruit picking, but again, I was lucky to be in refrigeration, to be making good money. And I still got my second year visa as a result of working in, um, in rural Australia. So I worked, worked there. I got my second year visa again, painting a picture of myself here, which isn't great, but I saved up a load of money, didn't know what to do with it.
• 0:35
  So went traveling through Thailand and went to New Zealand and all the rest of it. So after that second trip, I finally settled down a bit in Sydney. A couple of years on install like that. And then I settled in Sydney on, with the same company on service. So they had the, the Woolworths contract, um, a company called Austral Refrigeration.
• 0:36
  They're no longer around. Um, I was on service for them in Sydney, metropolitan area. So again, it's just, you do. One week in every four is your week on call, which entails of night shift, weekends, and then the rest is like during the day. So got really good experience over in Australia. Um, Oh God, I missed, I missed actually something.
• 0:37
  Sorry. Before I went into the super, I finished my installations. I got a job with a smaller company who done pubs and clubs, restaurants and stuff like that. The visa issue was coming into play then. So my second year was kind of coming up. I had to make a call that the smaller company weren't fully kitted out to sponsor me.
• 0:38
  Um, whereas I found a supermarket company who would, they were called Fridgerite, refrigeration. So happy days, got my feet in the door of the fridge, right. Only to find out that about six weeks later, they were going bust. So I had some stress then because they were going to take over my visa and stuff. Uh, eventually I landed on my feet with Ostro.
• 0:39
  They took my visa on and, uh, that was, that was, that was my start in Australia.
• 0:40
  Trevor: So yeah, I look at, at the timeline. I was in Australia at the same time doing refrigeration. So that's, that's pretty hilarious. So Sydney, I was in Perth and room. I've traveled through Sydney and stuff, but I was working on the West, the West coast doing air conditioning and refrigeration.
• 0:41
  The big thing is like, I've talked to a lot of people who want to travel. Um, there's work before you ha you, you got to plan before you do the traveling. And that's the big thing. If you want to go to Australia, especially for it here in Canada, uh, The UK and stuff. It's not difficult. South Africa to get into to Australia on a work visa, especially if you're under 30, it's super easy to get that first work visa to go in there.
• 0:42
  It's that second one, like you said, the Royal, but for me, I, I set up. I knew I was moving to australia for a while because I wanted to go hang out at the beaches and the sun So I did the trade recognition. So I had all my paperwork ready I did my research before I bet you it's so much easier now back in 2009 It's the internet wasn't the same way 15 years ago.
• 0:43
  So I did all my research. It took me a lot longer It's a lot easier to do it now to figure this out. I think it took me 48 hours to get the visa, the first one. Yeah. Didn't take too long.
• 0:44
  Patrick: The trade recognition thing was, yeah, we have to, we obviously have to go there and get your trade recognized before you're legally able to carry gas and work on, on systems and stuff.
• 0:45
  I think I just got in on the cusp of it because I went to, I remember going to the, The refrigeration college in Sydney, I sat down with a guy. His name was Greg Greak. He was a, he was a lecturer there and he kind of just had a chat. We had a chat about, um, refrigeration, my experience and what happened. He just asked me to fault find, uh, something going on on a contactor.
• 0:46
  He had a little, uh, electrical board made up a little electrical panel. So I found out pretty easily. And then he says, you'll be all right. So he just can't take the few boxes. I got all my shares because of that. But then I think the guys that followed me had to do like a night course for a while to get a properly trained.
• 0:47
  So I just got in on the cusp. I must've got them on a good day. I didn't have to do the night shift and stuff.
• 0:48
  Trevor: I had to do, I was a Perth, uh, Western Perth, I think. Uh, and yeah, I had to go to university and I think it was five weeks and I had to go once a week and we just, you know, electrical stuff because the wiring is different there than here in Canada, they're different color wiring and things like that.
• 0:49
  So, um, and I can see their point. Minimal was fine. It didn't take too much to get, uh, for me, but it did take a little bit, even when I got there to get, get on with the company and stuff. But they're, they're like anywhere in the world, they're, they're crying for good people who want to work. No, like I got on with, uh, it was AAA Refrigeration, Australian Air Conditioning Company, so I was under somebody's ticket there and they took me on, but once again, it's just you plan before you put the work in, but every time I knocked on the store, uh, door, like to get a job, I was hired.
• 0:50
  Patrick: Like, yeah, I, um, I, I went, we came back, we settled, I was living in a flat with a couple of mates of mine. One was electrician, one was a plumber and one was a bricklayer. And basically, I think I mentioned this to you, like, I, um, I was always the first to get a job. I was always on the most money, uh, in living in Sydney and stuff.
• 0:51
  And it was kind of swept, swept, swapped around from what happened when I was an apprentice, right? They were, they were the ones that had to do the unsociable hours. I was kind of, I got a good gig. I was getting paid well, and I was living a good life for a little while. So refrigeration. In general has been good to me, to be honest, but yeah, especially, and I really realized that when you go to Australia, it's kind of, it's a, it's a trade that can travel.
• 0:52
  I could, or you could rock up in most countries throughout the world and get a job, you know, and, and be looked after for it. So
• 0:53
  Trevor: that's the plus side of it. In Australia, like I remember strolling up the broom. Uh, we had no money left. We were broke. I think that we had $500 left. We couldn't even afford gas to put in the car anymore.
• 0:54
  So we get to this, this town in B Broome. It's Northwestern Australia in the middle of nowhere. Nowhere. Yeah. And uh, man, I knocked on about five or six doors one day and then all of a sudden this guy, uh, I knocked on the door, I talked to the guy's wife. It was a company called Kiss Refrigeration, and uh, it was a day before my birthday.
• 0:55
  And I was, I was like, I'm a refrigeration technician. I'm looking for a job. And this is re coming into dry season. So it's starting to get really hot. And, uh, and that's when a lot of travelers come to Broome through that time. So, so it grows from like 6, 000 population, maybe to 20, 000. I can't remember, but there's a lot of people that go through that town at that time.
• 0:56
  And they were like, uh, I talked to him for like five minutes. He's like, when can you start? Oh, really? He start tomorrow. I'm like, yeah, no problem. Then I'm leaving there on my bike. Cause I was on a bike. I had a bike there because I didn't have any, you know, Gas for the car. And, uh, while I'm biking back to the tent that I'm sleeping in, it's like, I just realized tomorrow's my birthday and that's my first day starting, but you know what, it worked out great.
• 0:57
  Cause I, in six weeks I made 10 or 15, 000. Like it was, it was crazy. You know what I mean? So it's like, you can make money quick, but I put the work in, like he was teaching me, but I was working 16 hour day, 15 hour day, I didn't mind. Yeah,
• 0:58
  Patrick: it was hard graft. Yeah, no, it was good. It was good in Australia. I had a great experience.
• 0:59
  I didn't think we'd be, we believe in. So I met my wife while backpacking in Vietnam. We had planned, we, I got my citizenship for Australia, which is, um, we got, we got the passport and stuff, didn't think we were leaving and then her dad fell ill. So we, we kind of had to come home to the UK. Um, and then we ended up staying here.
• 1:00
  Yeah. So we left Australia, I think in 2013. Um, after eight or nine good years there left, left in 2013 to come back to live in the North West of England, which is a bit of a reality check for me, you know? So that gray cloud you see behind me, that's, that's what it's like 365 days a year. No, we, we moved back here and I wanted to.
• 1:01
  Obviously I was going to stay in supermarkets. So I done a bit of research, found out who had the Tesco contract, um, which is a big company, a nationwide company called Carter Synergy. Straight away they took me on. Uh, they've got an, they had an office in Liverpool, which is great. Look, two nice guys, Steve and Dennis, they were running the show.
• 1:02
  So they, they took me on and yeah. With them for a couple of years, um, working on Tesco. So a little bit different. They had a lot of scroll compressors on Tesco supermarkets. Whereas in Australia, you had a HT pack that ran off three big semis. Um, you know, you had maybe two or three racks per store, whereas Tesco, the bigger Tesco's could have eight or nine, you know, scroll compressor racks.
• 1:03
  So, um, a little bit different, but, um, refrigerators, the fridge is a fridge, eh? The control side of it was a bit different for me, I suppose.
• 1:04
  Trevor: And that's a big thing. It's all about learning, growing and developing. This is what I do in all my supermarket training programs. I have technicians who come in after six or seven years and haven't been really in any training programs and just walking through the, the fundamentals on what to look for, you know, even on the control side.
• 1:05
  And all of a sudden you start, I start to see things start to click with them. They're like, I've been doing this for six or seven years, but the way you're explaining it, man, I wish someone told me this four or five years ago. Because a lot of times it's, you're learning on the fly and I'm sure that's the way it was for you.
• 1:06
  Here you go. Here's the keys, Patrick, get out there. Even if it's a new job, because you want to seem confident that you know what you're talking about to get the job
• 1:07
  Patrick: and
• 1:08
  Trevor: all of a sudden you're thrown out to the wolves and he's like, do I really know this or not? And, and that really came for me when I worked at Copeland, like I, Learned so much from them because I had the time to spend to, to really develop my skillset and, and understand refrigeration at a deeper level versus when I was, here's the keys, even though it's six, seven years in, here's the keys, go out and figure it out.
• 1:09
  And, uh, I think that's where that service I come in and I tell technicians this all the time. You want to get better, take more on call. You take more on call, you're going to get thrown into these calls that, you know, that are difficult and that you might need help on, but you take more on call, you get more opportunity to see different things instead of just, it's always the frozen up coil, or it's always the drain plug.
• 1:10
  This is where things break down and you get that opportunity to troubleshoot. What are your thoughts on on call?
• 1:11
  Patrick: On call, you actually, it's a lot of pressure to be on call, isn't there? I remember feeling that, both in Australia and in England, because I didn't. I'm not from those areas. I didn't know the engineers, so I couldn't really ring anybody.
• 1:12
  So it's like, Oh, can you work this weekend? And it's like, you don't want to say no. So you'd go, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And then all of a sudden phones go on, the phones go on. It's just, you know, how to manage them and blah, blah, blah. So on call. I did feel a good lot of pressure to be honest with you. When I was starting out, now you get the hang of it after a while and you know what's important and what's not important.
• 1:13
  But initially it's a bit like you're running around like a bit, yeah, a little bit scary to run around like a madman, not knowing the processes of how the company operates as well as you know, and then obviously when you finish your big, big project. Big sigh of relief, isn't it? On the Friday morning, it was Friday to Friday, like was, was the on call.
• 1:14
  So Friday morning used to finish a couple of pints and then you'd be okay, Trevor.
• 1:15
  Trevor: Yeah. The big thing is though, I wasn't taught about on call when you're, someone teaches you about how to take on call in the process, it doesn't have to be so stressful because that's what exactly was for me. It's like, I, I knew my on call was coming up.
• 1:16
  I was super stressed about it all that week. I was stressed the whole week for many years, taking on call because there, when I first started taking on call, I was still in construction. So I wasn't even doing service work. So, you know what I mean? Like when you do a big jump,
• 1:17
  Patrick: isn't it?
• 1:18
  Trevor: Yeah. So I think the big thing, if you're taught properly on understanding how to take on call, uh, it, it reduces some stress.
• 1:19
  There's still stress level there. Um, for, for examples, like, should I take my van to a kid's birthday party? You know, just say if you have kids with, with my family, well, you take two vehicles if you have to leave. Okay, you got to leave with the work vehicle and you talk about this with your service manager.
• 1:20
  But the other big thing is if you take more on calls, this is what I teach people too, is you get better on more calls, but the person you take it from, that's the thing is like you go ask and say, Hey Patrick, listen, I want to learn a little bit more. Can I take your on call, but if I get in trouble, can I make a phone call to you?
• 1:21
  And 99 percent of the time, the guys want to give the on call up, take my on call. I have no problem answering the phone for you this week to help you out. But there has to be that, you know, that relationship building with the person, um, not calling them on the way to the job site saying, Oh, Do you know what this job, I knew you were here on Thursday.
• 1:22
  I'm not there yet. What's the problem? You know what I mean? You gotta, you gotta understand how to take that on call.
• 1:23
  Patrick: Even, even now I say it's, it's some of my lads that work at like, before I asked them, have you checked this, this, this, and this, I expect them to have. Gone through that process. So once I see that they're making a bit of an effort, so they ring me, I'm struggling with this.
• 1:24
  Have you checked your gauges on there? Yeah. Have you checked running arms? Yeah. Have you checked all your fans are running in the evaporator? Bloody bloody, you know, just a little process to go through. And then if it's still struggling after that, I'm happy to take his call. And it was the same years ago.
• 1:25
  So I used to try and make a little bit of an effort when you build a relationship with a couple of engineers, you struggle a little bit, you might ring a more senior engineer and ask them. But obviously only after you go through the process of checking some stuff yourself, uh, but then bounce some ideas, like you said, 99 percent of the time, the lads are pretty helpful and sound, and it could be an ongoing issue that you didn't know about before, so you can, you know, it's just, just little things like that on call.
• 1:26
  Um, it is worth doing it if you're young and you know, before the kids come along and all the rest of it, take it, get the money in and you'll, you'll be a better engineer for it. I do agree with you there. Yeah.
• 1:27
  Trevor: I think the other thing it does is to, is coming back to training. I don't think there's a lot of, you know, especially supermarket training.
• 1:28
  That's why I do supermarket training and CO2 training. Cause there's not a lot of it out there I've looked for for it. And, uh, one of the big things is, is yes, you might be doing supermarket for five or 10 years, but you always can learn something from training, you know, and you have a different perspective from different people from around the world.
• 1:29
  And I, I think. Investing more time in your education will make you a better technician quicker. Because when I first started, I didn't do a lot of training. I did my apprenticeship program, but training wasn't, uh, the people I was hanging out with, it wasn't a big thing on training, like it wasn't like, oh, we should be going to, you know, doing training on Thursday night or go do some training on the weekend, you know, we got this manufacturer coming into town.
• 1:30
  And I think that's, that's the difference in my mindset now, where if If I would push myself a little harder to take that controls training, take that supermarket training, take this other training, I would have fast tracked myself a lot faster. I was in the more mindset, well, I'll learn on the job because that's where everyone says that's the best way to learn on the job.
• 1:31
  Well, is it? Because it takes you a lot longer to learn on a job when you, like you said earlier, if you don't know the processes, how do you even learn on the job?
• 1:32
  Patrick: Yeah, absolutely. So we, we've got, this is, this is naivety on my half for sure. But we've got, um, I've got two young lads with me at the minute, which I think I mentioned there, there and there.
• 1:33
  The first year apprentices, they've been working with me about two or three years for the first year apprentices. So I always was of the opinion that they don't need college. They don't need to go and do it. I can, I can teach them, but I found that I was teaching them how to fix stuff without them properly understanding it or understanding refrigeration.
• 1:34
  So I was giving them good work experience, but the knowledge of training and the theoretical side of it, I wasn't teaching them or they couldn't grasp it properly. So I've decided to go down the college road. But even after college, CO2 training courses should be more readily available. I know you do, Dom, but you know, you're on call, like we were talking about before, you're walking into a supermarket and the CO2 pack has fallen over and all the fridges are high.
• 1:35
  You need to, um, Pretty stressful when you're not as confident as you could be. So bigger companies here now, I think you might know more than me on this. Are they doing their in house training a little bit over here? Some do,
• 1:36
  Trevor: even with in house training, you know, depending on the size of the company, you still need more training.
• 1:37
  And in house training is, you need every company. I keep telling every company, you got to do in house training, but you need to do training outside as well. Manufacturers with third party training consultants because everyone has a different, um, way to teach and train. And if that trainer doesn't understand how to connect with the technicians.
• 1:38
  You know, cause a lot of people, Oh, it's all hands on. Everyone learns hands on. Well, they do learn hands on, but that theoretical side needs to be done as well. Some people are kinesthetic learners, audio learners, visual learners. We're all a little bit different. So it's important that, uh, like I talk with companies is like, you need to give them options.
• 1:39
  So they are firing on all cylinders as quick as possible, right. To get the results, to make them, you know, get the results for profit for the business. Cause that's what we want to do to train for, reduce the stress on the technician and as well as to help them make more money because they're more confident on their job sites, less callbacks, less warranty calls.
• 1:40
  Patrick: Yeah. And it makes the engineer feel valued, I suppose, doesn't it? The fact that you're investing in training for them and stuff. So, um, yeah, it's, it's very important for
• 1:41
  Trevor: sure. I want to take a minute to talk about my upcoming programs. There's so many great things happening at Refrigeration Mentor. We got awesome compressor programs, we got awesome supermarket programs, and signature CO2 programs.
• 1:42
  These are game changers. These are getting the results you're looking for. When you take these programs, you're going to be able to start Implementing and applying the things that we talk about in these programs, really helping your customer out, helping your business out and helping yourself out by having that confidence, be able to finish jobs quicker, troubleshoot faster, reduced.
• 1:43
  Callbacks. This is going to help you get to your next level. It's going to get you the results. I look forward to seeing you in these programs, head to the refrigerationmentor. com website and check out the courses page, because this is where you're going to take yourself to the next level and becoming that elite technician.
• 1:44
  So you did these, you did a lot of work, a lot of traveling, which is amazing as a engineer. And now you started your own business called Climberoid. What, how'd that happen? How'd that come about?
• 1:45
  Patrick: Um, so before I left Australia, I kind of had, had conversations with an Aussie buddy of mine that we were going to do it.
• 1:46
  We were going to take the plunge together and, and he's, he's actually done it since I left and he's doing really well there now, so, um, I, I just always a little bit of an urge in me to, to give it a go on my own. So I've left Cataclysm Energy, the supermarket mob, to get myself some more air conditioning experience with a view to going out on my own, uh, setting up my own business a year or two later.
• 1:47
  So I went to a smaller air conditioning mall, but didn't last too much, too long. I just had to go for it. I was like, let's just do it. Um, without thinking too much about it, I said, let's, let's do it. So we had a. Newborn baby at the time and another baby on the way. So I remember when I, uh, very first customers, like a local restaurant that, you know, is, is local to, to where we live.
• 1:48
  And me wife was on labor on our bed where our second kid, she's just on labor. A call came in for this walk in cold room gone down. And she was in labor and pain on the bed, asking me to go and fix this fridge. She was fully on board with me. And I was just thinking like, should I go and fix this fridge?
• 1:49
  And she's in labor. And I was like, well, I asked her how long she going to be. And she was like, I don't know. So anyway, I didn't go and fix the fridge, but yeah, just a memory that popped up. Um, went there on my own. Kind of sacrificed a lot to do that. Two young kids in the family. Just looking back, it was a hard, hard time.
• 1:50
  You know, you're taking any work that comes in. It was just myself and Ivan, me and Ivan initially, taking whatever work that comes in, traveling, living in London, living up in the Northeast of England, just taking whatever you can, hard going. That was, I found that really challenging, you know. But the first couple of years to get that off the ground, probably the hardest couple of years of my life, to be honest with you, looking back now, or if I had to move somewhere else again, I don't know if I'd have it in me to do it again.
• 1:51
  You know,
• 1:52
  Trevor: I think that's, that's a good thing that you bring up, but it doesn't matter if it's refrigeration. I think it's any business, you know, you know, it's tough in a way that you're going to do the service work. You're going to go find a work, but when you become an entrepreneur, I don't think it matters what industry you're in.
• 1:53
  It is tough getting off the ground. Um, especially when you're doing it all by yourself, you don't have any backing, you know, you're just trying to figure out how to be a business owner versus being a technician in the field. Easy to be a technician. You go and you knock on the door and you get a job and someone hires you, they're paying for insurance, they're paying for the van, they already got the jobs already laid out for you, the calls, the dispatch, when you go on your own, there's none of that.
• 1:54
  There's like, you got to go fight for work and you got to go find the work and then on top of that, then you got to go do the books and then you got to find the parts and then you got to get wholesalers and you got to get suppliers and then you, so there's a lot of work to it. And is it. You know, you got to think, is it worth it doing it this way or can I do it a different way?
• 1:55
  Because I teach different people. Some people want to start their own refrigeration business. I help teach them how to do that. People want to make more money as a refrigeration technician. I teach them how to do that as well, because I, I don't see anything wrong with a technician making two, 300, 000 a year, but you got to do it right.
• 1:56
  And the only way you can do that right as a technician is make the business more money. Yeah, a technician can come in and say, I'll make you a hundred, 500, 000 more on your bottom line by doing the service work. Plus selling jobs, can I get a commission from those sales? And you're hands down every day, you're going to say, no, if you're bringing 500, 000 more on the bottom line, for sure, you're making some of that money.
• 1:57
  At the end of the day, you're going to say no. Yeah. You're going to look after them on that front. That,
• 1:58
  Patrick: yeah, it was, it was just, just, just initially it was all, all the knapwacks, but I met a guy called. Brett Smith, he's actually lived in Ontario for years. He was born in the UK, lived over there. He worked for Hussman, I think, came back to the, came back to the UK.
• 1:59
  Um, he, I met him at the air conditioning company that I worked for in the UK for a brief period. So we kind of kept in touch. And he was the first person that I took on, he's still with me now, Brett, so he was the first, he was the, he was the first guy I took on, so then he took a lot of pressure off, he took, he eased the pressure at home, because obviously I was allowed, I was, freed me up to be, to help me, me missus with the kids and stuff like that, so, um, he was a big help, he come on, um, And then after that, yeah, just both of us kind of grew, grew together, you know, so not that it's massive or anything like that, but it was just, just, um, initial years was hard.
• 2:00
  And then after about five, six years, you get to find that a little bit more of a, of a balance. So, um,
• 2:01
  Trevor: I totally think it's, you didn't give up and I can see like you put the work in and you weren't giving up. And that, that's the big thing. I think a lot of people, you know, they struggle for many, many years.
• 2:02
  And they're just like, is it, is it worth it? Cause I met lots of people who own refrigeration companies or air conditioning contractors. And they were like, it was a struggle to make 200, 250, 000 a year after all the bills and all that stuff. And they were just like, it wasn't worth it. So they went for them because it's a hard work.
• 2:03
  It's not easy and it's, I think it's not only refrigeration, I think it's being an entrepreneur. It's, it's, it's tough.
• 2:04
  Patrick: Yeah. There's no right and wrong. It's just different strokes are different folks. Isn't that so? If, if, if it does, if you don't want to do it, that's fine. It's perfectly okay. And if you do, yeah, give it a go.
• 2:05
  So we kind of struggled a little bit with staffing for a while. We found it hard to get good engineers because. With a smaller company, I suppose everything's highlighted that little bit more. There's easier gigs to have with a bigger company. Right? So I couldn't get great. I struggled with staffing for a while.
• 2:06
  So I find that now, thankfully Touchwood have got, I've got really good guys with me. I've got a really good team that I'd love to hold onto for as long as possible. So I'm doing my best to kind of, you know, look after them within reason as much as much as I can try and be flexible where I can be. Um, and yeah, just see what happens in the future.
• 2:07
  Keep, keep trying to investing in apprentices, um, keep investing in apprentices because they are probably the future. And yeah, here we are. That's, that's kind of my story. That's my journey up to now.
• 2:08
  Trevor: No, and I like that. I think the big thing is, is investing into apprentice. What I see too, I'm in a lot of investor groups and business groups.
• 2:09
  A lot of business owners who run their companies for 20, 30, 40 years. 40 years, they have no exit strategy or exit plan. So they get up and they build this company up, but at, when they get to time to retirement, they don't have any out. They don't plan on who to pass it down to, who to sell it to. Is it worth anything?
• 2:10
  Because you putting in all the work is, you know, Is building that company, but planning, having apprentices. This is, I love hearing that you already said you, how many tech people at your organization at this point?
• 2:11
  Patrick: So there's 10 of us in total, um, 10 of us in total. There's two apprentices that I've got with me and, um, Actually a local wholesaler is, he's a, he's a branch manager and a wholesaler, refrigeration wholesaler called TF Solutions.
• 2:12
  He kind of got in touch with me. His kid is looking for an apprenticeship. So I'm going to meet him next week for a chat. Uh, he's 17 years of age looking to get into the industry. So, um, he lives, he lives not far from us, so it might work out that. Yeah. And, uh, I think it's good for small companies, if you can, to invest in apprentices.
• 2:13
  You know, teach them how they want to be taught, get them proper values, proper cultures, proper work ethics. If you can instill them in them in the first couple of years, then, um, hopefully it'll, it'll pay back or come after that, won't it? So that's my, that's my plan. You know?
• 2:14
  Trevor: That's great. And you know, you're, you're, you got two apprentices, you're looking for a third apprentice.
• 2:15
  You're trying to continue to grow because the, the big thing is, is that, that it's, it's teaching them, but it's once again, for you as a leader is to, to not give up because it is a struggle to find technicians. Everyone's always. I've seen it here in Canada. Well, they're always swapping journeyman. So experienced guys, they all get, they're trying to get all these guys who already know all this stuff, but it's very difficult.
• 2:16
  And sometimes you're bringing their bad habits over as well. You know, you get a good experience, but their communication skills, not good. They don't want to help, uh, invest in the future of the team. You know what I mean? So the big thing is, is that like you said, if you can get some younger talent to come in.
• 2:17
  Yep, teach them, educate them. Sometimes they're gonna leave. Either way, refrigeration is not, uh, not an easy role, it's not an easy job, but it's a rewarding job. You know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, but I put the work in just like you, you know what I mean? You put the work in to make the money there You can't just go like your friends that did the the railroad work there.
• 2:18
  There was no okay You can work just a hundred hours a week. I bet maybe there is I got it My neighbor works in the railroads as well but You know, it wasn't just, there wasn't as much work as there is for refrigeration, you know?
• 2:19
  Patrick: Yeah, it is a huge, and you know, I think now there's a big push here in the UK on training.
• 2:20
  We, um, we recently joined an organization called the Coal Chain Federation. Um, and only yesterday I was in, I was in London and the Houses of Parliament, they hosted a, uh, an event with an MP. Um, basically they were focusing on a few different things. And one of the things was training the future generation in the cold chain.
• 2:21
  So I think there was research done on the, on the 6 percent of young people now know about the cold chain industry, or I've even thought about it as a career, which is pretty low. So it's kind of trying to get young people interested to joining it. Um, and hopefully on the back of the meeting that they had yesterday, there's going to be incentives to take on apprentices for refrigeration companies and stuff like that.
• 2:22
  So, Yeah. That's, that's another thing that the bigger organizations are pushing as well. They're trying to invest in training and the future of the industry. So you keep doing what you're doing as well, travel, what you're doing is putting it on the map as well. You know, everybody's watching your videos.
• 2:23
  You're, you're on LinkedIn, you know, it's getting bigger and bigger. All the guys that I work with watch your stuff as well. So keep, keep doing what you're doing.
• 2:24
  Trevor: Uh, thank you. I appreciate that. And it's once again, it's a community, this industry trying to share and help because I didn't know anything about refrigeration.
• 2:25
  I just knew I could open the fridge and pull out milk or ice cream and things stays cold, you know, so didn't even have air condition where I was from. Didn't really need it. But, um, let's, uh, let's, I want to ask a couple of questions on some of the things that yeah. Some ideas for technicians. So you are a technician, now you're an entrepreneur, a business owner, but what would be one or two tips for a technician starting out that, that you would say, man, if I would have known that, that would have really helped my career, boost my career a lot quicker over the years.
• 2:26
  Patrick: Um, as a technician, the thing I struggled with a lot and it took me the longest time to grasp was wiring diagrams and the control side of things. Mechanically, it was okay. Pumping down a system was all okay. I didn't learn how to read a wiring diagram quick enough. Um, if I'm being totally honest with you, and if I had done that, it would have saved me a lot of time and stress.
• 2:27
  I done, I done commissioning for a few years when I set up on my own commissioning supermarkets and stuff. And even then. It took me a lot longer to find the faults because I wasn't great at reading wiring diagrams. And there's loads of help out there. That was one for me anyway. I don't know if that's okay.
• 2:28
  You know, the wiring, the control side of it, I struggle with for a while. Um, I mean, the other thing is to just, if you're with a bigger company, there's going to be certain people that you want to fall in with. You know, you're looking for experienced guys that are willing to help you. And that, you know, if you hold your hand up, you'll make mistakes for sure.
• 2:29
  Everyone makes mistakes, so don't be afraid to make them. Just be honest. And that's just probably two things that I could think of off the top of my head.
• 2:30
  Trevor: No, I think that's huge because same here. I was not good with wiring diagrams because I didn't, I didn't read them. I do this in my programs all the time, supermarket or CO2 is like, I asked them how, how often outside of work, they ever picked up a wiring diagram and tried to read it.
• 2:31
  It's absolutely zero. And I've tried thousands of people that are doing, you know, some don't, I shouldn't say absolutely zero, small one to 2 percent say, yeah, I'll pick up a wiring diagram before I go to try to get a better understanding of what I'm going to work on. But it's years and years of struggling with wiring diagrams until you either meet someone who makes it click.
• 2:32
  Or all of a sudden you're like, you start reading the diagrams and try to learn off them. And one of my things in my courses is that I get them to do that throughout the course. You've got to look at the wiring diagrams. You've got to take one and by the end of it, you've got to understand that wiring diagram and start with a basic and move it on.
• 2:33
  There's so many videos on it, but this is investing in yourself outside of work. You know, that's, that's the big thing. And I really like that. I think that's a big thing. Controls and wiring diagram. Everybody struggles with that. Because they don't spend the time doing it all the time. You're a lot of times as a technician, you're putting out fires, you know, you're out there to wash out the keys, you're out there to, uh, charge it up, fix a leak, charge it up, whatever it is, but it's not spending the time just on wiring.
• 2:34
  It's, you know, if you spent right now, one hour a week for the next year, that's 52 hours on wiring diagrams. That next year, you're going to be better at wiring.
• 2:35
  Patrick: Yeah, absolutely. Cause when you're on site, you're fixing things, you're, you're leaving it. You'll probably forget about it. And then the next time you're in trouble, you'll, you'll, you know, you need to do some work outside of it, whether that's YouTube videos, some of your videos, manufacturer videos, um, you do need to, um, for sure do some work outside of on the job training.
• 2:36
  Trevor: Yes. Next question. So we talked about, you know, being an engineer, a technician in the field. Now, what would be one or two tips for business owners? Because I have a lot of technicians who are starting their own business, getting out on their own. What are a couple of tips that you can give them? Uh, cause we talked about how you struggle at first.
• 2:37
  What are a few things that if you went back now that you would have tried to implement a bit quicker inside your organization?
• 2:38
  Patrick: I think I would have got so busy. I used to be. Not very good with my invoicing side, with my chasing payment side. So I had an accountant that I paid the bare minimum to, uh, I let things build up and then all of a sudden I'm hit with all these bills coming from everywhere or tax bills coming from everywhere.
• 2:39
  I just didn't grasp the whole tax side of it quick enough. Um, I struggled with that. And that is, yeah, obviously the number one priority is getting work in the door. So. You obviously get your work in the door and then just try and get your head around VAT, corporation tax, personal tax, PAYE, all these little things that I was pretty clueless about for years.
• 2:40
  Um, not saying, not paying myself as a great business owner here, but I just didn't, didn't, didn't know it was the same stuff.
• 2:41
  Trevor: Patrick, I deal with the same stuff now. I've been doing it for 10 years, you know, so it's.
• 2:42
  Patrick: Yeah, it's, it's all those things. I suppose that side of it, the accounting side of it, I'd, um, if I was to go again, I get my head around that a lot quicker.
• 2:43
  So I know where I'm profitable, where I'm not profitable. I was kind of a busy fool for ages, driving here, there and everywhere, trying to keep people happy without thinking about the finance side of it. You know, now I did. I suppose the counterargument to that would be, you have to do it, you have to get out there, you have to get the work in, you have to make a good impression, and so I'm shooting myself in the foot by saying I didn't do it right, I could have done it right, but I could have done it a lot better, I reckon, you know.
• 2:44
  Trevor: I think that's huge, you know, uh, the books, understanding the books, P& Ls, um, as well as understanding accounting, because it's, it's, it all comes back to you. Right. Even you hire these people and you pay them a lot of money to do this stuff. It's still, you're the business owner. So if they make mistakes and you don't understand, it still comes back onto you, not really onto them.
• 2:45
  So as a business owner, you got to understand that stuff
• 2:46
  Patrick: for sure. Yeah. So I'm still learning on it, but I would've got my head around that. Uh, And at the minute, I'm just trying to keep, keep the guys motivated, you know, trying to give them a different variety of jobs, seeing what each engineer wants. One guy likes install.
• 2:47
  I try and keep him on installs where I can. One guy likes a variety. So he could be on a Starbucks ice machine one day and a food production. Screw the compressor the next day. So it's, it's a bit different. Um, just trying to keep each engineer, what they're into, you know, some engineers like overtime, other engineers don't, so it's kind of managing everybody to keep them, keep them motivated, you know, and, uh, keep everyone going smoothly and then when, when, when you're in trouble, sorry for jumping in on you, you know, there's, you know, a couple of weeks a year here where there's a bit of a heat wave when you're in trouble.
• 2:48
  You'll find that the labs will help you out. You just drop them a text and any chance you can do a few XR was this week. They're normally pretty, pretty okay. We're helping out. They understand the industry. When you look after them for the rest of the year, especially Camden, they do, they do dig in a little bit at that time of year.
• 2:49
  Trevor: Yeah. I love that. And that's it. It's about being a team, having a good culture, understanding how. You guys help. Cause this is, this is it. When you have a good team, someone's birthday comes up. You're like, I'll take you on a call that day. No problem. But the big thing, another thing I teach in businesses and companies and in technicians, like at the start of the year, they should be meeting with you a couple of times a year talking about their career, like, okay, Patrick, it's my wedding anniversary this weekend where I'm on call.
• 2:50
  Can you help me out or build a relationship with the guys and say, listen, that one day I'm going to be out taking my wife out or my spouse out and I need it off. Can we work together? I'll take one of your own calls. Yeah. You can take this, you know what I mean? Building that up. And that's where it makes it easier for technicians.
• 2:51
  A lot of technicians are worried to go in and talk about, uh, how their career should go with their boss or the manager. I think that's the first step I'm teaching. I'm definitely getting technicians to go in and Build that career, show them like, I'm willing to put the work in this time of year, but this time of year, like I need this week off.
• 2:52
  I need that week off. And this week off because of family commitments, birthdays, whatever, the holidays, just that those non, those non negotiables. And if you do it at the start of the year, a business owner like you would be like, okay, I'll work with you instead of the day before I need tomorrow off. It's my kid's birthday.
• 2:53
  Well, why didn't you tell me this six months
• 2:54
  Patrick: ago? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We do find that on call here. We're climate right, it's kind of not like a supermarket company or you're unlikely to get called out at nighttime. Basically, most of our companies are, that we work for are day businesses or they could wait till tomorrow morning.
• 2:55
  So if it's a case that they, there's a job in Manchester city centre and one of the guys is in there, normally they have that personal relationship where they can say, I'll ring them, a call's come in, they can ring each other. And say, look, while you're in there, would you mind picking this up for me? And then that favor will be returned, you know, down the line.
• 2:56
  So it's, it's, it's the way it works at the minute. I'm not saying it'll always be like that, but, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's working okay at the minute that way. Yeah.
• 2:57
  Trevor: I love that. I love that. Yeah. Patrick, I want to thank you for taking the time to come on chat. I love, I love. Hearing your story is very similar to mine on how, how we went through the industry.
• 2:58
  And I think there's a lot of other technicians out there doing the same thing. And I think there's a lot of value in that. How can people get ahold of you, get ahold of your organization if they want to learn more about you and find more about your company?
• 2:59
  Patrick: Uh, we've got a website, which is climeright.
• 3:00
  com. C L I M A R I T E. Uh, the same for our company LinkedIn page is Climeright Limited. Um, and then obviously my own personal LinkedIn page, please, uh, come and have, say hello on that. That's Patrick Connolly at Patrick Connolly on LinkedIn. So, um, yeah, Trevor, thanks for, thanks for your time. Thanks for having me on and keep doing what you're doing, man.
• 3:01
  Keep doing the videos.
• 3:02
  Trevor: I appreciate that. Once again, this is going to be in the show notes. You can go and connect with Patrick, learn a little bit more about him. If you're, you, you're moving to that area, this is an opportunity to network and build relationship. This is what this industry is all about. If you enjoy this, please share this on another platform.
• 3:03
  And if you, if you connected with this. Conversation reach out to us and we'd love to say hi, reach out to us on LinkedIn, wherever you can. Once again, Patrick, I appreciate you taking the time. Love your story and we'll connect again. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. Cheers, mate. I want to thank you so much for hanging out with me and the refrigeration mentor podcast.
• 3:04
  If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a comment. Let me know what were your key highlights. What you took away from myself or my guests, as well as if you have not subscribed yet, head over to Apple podcasts or Spotify and subscribe. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share with a friend, let your friends know that there are people who care, who want to share the refrigeration information to help them get to the next level in their career.
• 3:05
  If you have not been to the refrigeration mentor website@refrigerationmentor.com, go check it out. There's a ton more guest podcasts I've been on as well as the event page. Check out the events page because there's a lot more free trainings as well as paid training to really help you grow your knowledge base.
• 3:06
  Super excited. Can't wait to see it. The next refrigeration enter podcast, let's get a conversation going.