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Heights of Victory with Coach Grant McCasland · Heights of Victory

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: From the Mass Rider Capital worldwide headquarters in Lubbock, Texas, this is Heights of Victory, a program showcasing businesses and leaders from across the region.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can expect to hear stories of success with bounts of adversity and resilience, which, when paired with hard work and a little West Texas grit, culminate in the Heights of Victory.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Heights of Victory.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Jeff Horn, CEO of Mass Rider Capital.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we welcome you here today.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're here with none other than Coach Grant McCasslin.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Many of you will recognize him.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's the head coach of Texas Tech Men's Basketball.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, coach, it's been an honor to get to know you over the past three years and call you a friend.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know this, but I uh I've been a Red Raider basketball fan since 1982.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you say, well, how's that possible?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my grandfather started taking me to the games at when I was five years old, and uh he was one of my heroes, and we went to football and basketball games until his death in 2007, but that's that was my journey to becoming a Red Raider basketball uh fan.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, that's a lot of basketball from Gerald Myers to James Dickey to Bob Knight to Pat Knight to Billy Clyde Gillespie to interim with Chris Walker, and then uh we hired um Tubby Smith, then Chris Beard, then Mark Adams, and then you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh it's been a fun ride.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I have to say as we get started that you are the most inspiring coach that I've seen during that whole period of time.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it is refreshing in this day of college athletics to see such a confident and humble, uh, great leader uh of young men and uh how you're how you're leading them and developing them uh with your authenticity.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I it's so obvious that you care deeply about all these young men as well as your coaching staff.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so without further ado, I welcome you to the heights of victory today.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: You got good days in the Coliseum.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you've seen some rodeo games.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen it all.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: You have.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen uh can't remember the co Tony Baroni, the the melee as they left.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I watched a triple overtime uh game with Tech in Texas, 128, 125 that Tech pulled out.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I watched uh Tech win the Southwest conference with Bubba Jennings uh there.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I watched him come back from SMU with a reach over the baseline.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen it all.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, it's been it's been a lot of fun.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's awesome.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, honestly, you you then you watched me play, which meant you watched me sit on the bench against the Red Raiders.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: So we've been in the same gym several times and didn't even know each other at the time.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's pretty awesome.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So one more note.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: While we won't dive too much into basketball uh season on this particular podcast, we aren't recording this near the end of the regular season.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's still a lot of basketball to be played, and and uh, but wanted to let you know that when we're taping this episode.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, coach, we're we're grateful that you're here today.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that we do at the start is to dive right into history, um, you know, family life, and all of that.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you've got a great story of you know what's built you into the man that you're here today.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start off, talk a little bit about your parents, where you grew up, you know, what uh what was it like to be a young Grant McCasslin?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it was pretty scrawny and and small, is what it was.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, I was born in Weatherford, Texas, west of Fort Worth.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm I consider like, you know, West my home, really do.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: And identify my my grandfather uh on my dad's side was a started churches and lived on a farm.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I would grow up staying at his place, shelling peas, shucking corn on the front porch, riding tractors with him.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then on my mom's side, um, her dad and mom both went to tech.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: And he played football here, 49 to 52, and was a high school coach in football, but then also ended up uh working in the gas industry.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: And and so I'd ride a truck with him as we delivered gas to Texaco stations.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, as a son of a Baptist minister, honestly, and my mom was the toughest person I know.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: And my dad was uh was my hero.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: And he gave me a lot of opportunities as a young guy, um, just to have leadership and to grow.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: He always challenged me.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: His father started churches and moved all the time.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: So he actually didn't even live with his dad his last couple of years of high school.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: He lived with his coaches in Jow, New Mexico.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so they, you know, that flipped for my dad because he was like, look, my parents weren't involved in my athletics and my life as much, even though they did great things and were doing uh awesome work.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: So he made it his mission to be involved in everything.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he he basically took care of Project Prom for our senior year, and he coached everything I ever played.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, pick a sport, he coached them all.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: That didn't mean I always liked him.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he was pretty hard on me as a player, which is probably passed down pretty good.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: But man, were they so involved?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: And my parents just loved us genuinely and gave all of their time and all of their extra time to our family.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I grew up moving a lot of different places.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: We lived in Houston for nine years, lived in Texas or Canada, had a short stint in Memphis, Tennessee, um, and then finished high school at Irving High School before going on and playing in college and starting the journey from there.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: But so thankful for having um uh an older brother, a younger brother, and then a 10-year younger sister who we were really, really close.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: And my parents kind of made that the heart of what we did was family, staying connected, being involved in each other's lives all the time, and you know, growed grew up with really loving parents.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't know that you lived in Memphis.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: We share that in common.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: I lived there for about a year.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: My dad played professional baseball for the Montreal Expos and played for the Memphis Chicks.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: No way.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: I went to a Chickscount.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: I was a Germantown elementary was my was my spot out there.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it was uh crazy.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's a cool place to live.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: What um I know that you you know you talk about your dad coming to all your games, coaching and all that.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the lessons that you learned that that you apply today uh that that that you know that you um that you experienced yourself?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, when I when I started um getting old enough to take on a job, my dad challenged me.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, hey, you need to find something that you can make some extra money.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: So there was a there was an office building that partnered next to his, and I went to middle school and I would walk home to his office, which was the church office at the time, and would take the trash out of the neighboring office, and I would vacuum and clean the restrooms.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I basically was a janitor.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: And through that, my grandfather, who I, John Mohan, who played football at tech, Pops is who I call him.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Pops actually gave me some money to expand the business.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so he would call me Bubba.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I called it Bubba's cleaning service.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I bought a steam cleaner.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: And how I got other jobs was I would do the basics and charge them square footage of vacuuming and picking up the trash.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: But then I would get these extra jobs by promising that I would steam clean a room, a different room every month.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: So it was an added bonus for free, if you will, for being young and probably dumb.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so my dad just challenged me, hey, if you want to be great, then you got to learn how to work and you got to be diligent.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: So as a young guy going in high school, I said, did that all the way through and ultimately ended up actually getting a preschool at one point, which was a pretty big mess, to be honest.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: And as a high schooler, we would have games late and it'd be 10 o'clock.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually had a team of people that I that worked with us at the time, and uh they would not be able to show up.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: So somebody had to clean it.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I had job responsibilities every night, but not to clean necessarily the preschool.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: But there were several nights till two or three in the morning as a high schooler, I'd have to go up there and like clean the whole building myself because they couldn't show up.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so honestly, I'm so thankful for my dad for pushing me.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then a summer job he gave us and helped organize.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was called Forerunners, and it was really unique.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was, I attached basically a travel uh concession stand, and we called it the game wagon.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: We had a bunch of games in it, and we would go to a different apartment complex in Irving, which is where I went to high school my last three years, one in the morning, all summer long, one in the afternoon, nine to twelve, one to four.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: And we would put on in these Section Eight or less um, you know, low-income apartments, we would put on basically summer camp for them.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: So those kids that were stuck at home could go out and do something.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: And we'd do a little, a little Bible study, and we'd also play with them.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it was awesome.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I did it with eight of my really close friends, and we did it all summer long.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it you know what my dad taught me, not only did he give all his time to us and was he so invested, but he encouraged me to be a part of something that would give to other people.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And not necessarily just a way to make money, but a way that you could impact and help other people in the community.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I was young and organizing this and knocking on parents' houses, doors, and saying, hey, we kid want to come out and play.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so it just taught me a lot from a responsibility standpoint, from a service standpoint to love other people.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: And and then how do you care about those people that you do life with in a way that you can do something meaningful?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I can tell you that was hugely impactful on what what the blessing that I get to do and be a part of teams today because it was an early, early teach on loving people in a way that wasn't about what you get out of it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: You you you you were raised in that kind of household with loving parents, always there for you.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: A walk-on at Baylor uh playing uh down there, uh academic, all big 12.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you played for Harry Miller.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: You were telling me all of the people that were associated with the program during your time there.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Give us a give us a snapshot of what that was all like.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, you you know, I at the time, uh one of the assistant coaches uh was Billy Gillespie.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's who I ultimately and that that's a big part of my story, honestly, was being uh trying to make the team.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: And Coach Gillespie put us through a preseason conditioning and had to go through I'm telling you, the most grueling six weeks of my life.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And the fight that it took, we would, we would basically run slide whatever for an hour and a half without a basketball for every day, uh, but the weekends for six weeks.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then when it came time to possibly be a part of the team, which I didn't know if I was going to as a true freshman because it was basically a walk-on process, is the way it happened.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And Coach Gillespie at the end came in and brought me in and said, You're gonna be a part of this team, but you may never actually show up and be on the bench during games.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're basically gonna be good used for practices.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Your mom won't know you're on this team, possibly, and just gave me like a real bleak look at what it would look like to be a walk-on.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: And thankfully, honestly, got pushed, got the opportunity to be a part of the team, ultimately ended up playing in some games even as a freshman.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, that that journey of playing as walk-on, and Rodney Terry was an assistant coach uh on that team who ultimately ended up coaching against uh in the Big 12, and who's one of my great friends and several other guys.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: But no, it it really, when you look back on it, just the people that had that big of an impact on me on a daily basis ended up being pretty pivotal people in the journey of becoming a college basketball coach.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Next time you're in the United Supermarkets arena, once you go down to the floor, look up at the 207 section 207.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've heard this before, tell me.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, coach Coach Gillespie used to love to stop practice, tell whoever, run up, touch 207.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we had our support group at that time was called the 207 Club.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Which I was basically 207.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I've lived the uh 207 life, and uh, and and my stomach uh turns over when I think about those 5 a.m.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: workouts that involved uh our own version of 207.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you you completed your four years there, uh, graduated, then you had um don't know really what you're gonna do, and then you end up at Texas Tech as a part of James Dickey's staff uh chasing a young female, I believe.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, uh it is wild.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: The the the God story that has centered honestly around Texas Tech is really unbelievable.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: So one of we moved to Irving.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: My dad took a job at Plymouth Park Baptist Church in Irving, and we moved there, and the first some thing we did when we moved to Irving in the summer was summer camp with the church.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the young ladies that was at camp is now my wife, but it was Cecilia Dillon.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: And she was actually in my parents' my mom and dad's family group at this church camp.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: And she was in the same grade, and so we interacted and became really close friends over the next three years.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: She goes on to Texas Tech.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: I went on to play, and she ended up playing um as a walk-on and ultimately earned a scholarship at Texas Tech on the soccer team, the women's soccer team, and was actually a really good player.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And we would play against tech, she would come to the game when what when, or actually, come by the hotel and say hello.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then when they would play in Waco, I would go to the soccer game and say hello to her.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then in the summers, we would work out at different times, but we all had athlete, athletic responsibility.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: So it wouldn't like we got to spend a lot of time together.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: But this was the day of the landline, and I would call her every couple months because I always remembered, I mean, this girl CeCe, she was the type of person that you really respected because of her integrity, because of her um heart for people.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: She was always a person.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'll tell you a short story, but we we all hung out together, and there was a one night we went to the same prom in the same limo twice with different people.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: But we were close friends.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: There was a time we went all went out to eat, and we're all sitting around a table, and the server was doing an awesome job.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: And at the end, my CC at the time was talking to her, and she ended up asking her the server if she could pray for because she shared something personal, and then she shared Jesus, the gospel with her, and then ended up leading her to the Lord, like in front of us at the table.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I would, I like you never forget those people.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I always said, like, this is someone that I'd want to marry.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you don't say that publicly when you're in high school, but yeah, you know, I mean, I always thought it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, when I got done playing, I had an opportunity to do a lot of things.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was really close with a bunch of college friends.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: One of them was a guy named Um Chip Gaines, who everybody knows this Magnolia.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: And we had talked about in entrepreneurship, we talked about doing a laundry company.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I sit in the office at Texas Tech and see the tide truck drive by.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that actually started as a part of uh a possibility that we looked at was university laundry.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Some of my college buddies ended up running it and chip, ended up doing real estate.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: Another one was working at a local church, and then the other one, I called and I wanted a coach in college because I loved being a part of a team.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so I said, if I'm gonna do this, I called a guy named Mike Kuhnstadt and he said, you need to call out.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: And one school that may have an opening is James Dickey at Texas Tech.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I called Coach Brashier and asked him if I could come work camp.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I got to be honest, the main reason I wanted to do it was so I could come see Cece, who was finishing her college career playing soccer at Texas Tech.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: And coach uh was awesome, gave me an opportunity to work summer camp.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I drove in my 95 Jeep Wrangler with the top off from Dallas at the time uh to Lubbock and did about 100 push-ups.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, when I got out of the Jeep and went directly to her apartment, rang her doorbell and said hello, you know, and flexed probably, unfortunately, embarrassingly, and uh told her I was here to work Coach Dickey's camp.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: And uh really I was trying to say hello to her.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: But through that process, Coach ended up offering me a job as the first director of basketball operations at Texas Tech, and it was an unbelievable opportunity.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: It paid a whopping$8,000, and I had to pay for grad school with that.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I was in the hole before I got started.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it was unbelievable.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you do every job, you work every job, and what and the staff was amazing.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: And uh just the people, and it was the first year that we opened up the United Supermarkets arena.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'd played in the Coliseum, and then the blessing of being in that place and now to see it for what it is, and that be the first opportunity.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then obviously two years later, Cece and I ended up becoming great friends and ended up getting married through a pretty wild sequence.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it I will take tell this briefly.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Got to the end, and unfortunately, we'd got let go and they'd hired Bob Knight, which is all a part of the journey, as you know.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it was a quick introduction to maybe what this profession is, but also to the appreciation I have for Coach and how he handled it.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um, but we were in this tough kind of part of it, and Cece and I had become great friends, but I didn't have the guts to tell her that I loved her.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to mess up a friendship.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'd kind of just stumbled over it and I was horrible.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was, I was, I was not good at it.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: And one day I'd basically, my friends had called me, like, how's it going with Cece?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, man, I've given up on it.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: I tried to, but it just didn't seem like there was a right time to tell her that I really wanted to date her.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: I was so busy and working for basketball, and there was a storm that blew in, and it was a classic West Texas special, and I was driving that Jeep and the mud, and I didn't have any fluid.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so I had to pull over because it started to rain after the wind and dirt, and it was amazing.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to pull over, and I'm literally sitting on University Drive in Broadway, that's where I was parked, and I said, I'm gonna call CeCe.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I call her apartment, and I actually her roommate had called me, and that was my excuse.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Is Angie there?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: And she answered the day of the landline, so this is tells you when it was, and she answered, and she said, Um, why haven't you called me recently?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we we had hang out so much, and you haven't called me in a couple weeks.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's funny in life when you are honest and you almost give up.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I hate to say it this way, but you get to a point where you're willing to say, Lord, whatever you want for me.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like at a place of real desperation, not not meaningful, not meaning it necessarily, like that's how I was gonna do it.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I was like, I don't have anything to hold back.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna be honest.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I told her, you know what?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: I actually called for your room, but I'm glad you answered because I never told you this, but I've always liked you.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't say love because she told everybody she loved them.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I wasn't one of those kind of people.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, she's like, I love you, I love you.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, don't say that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really love everybody like that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't want to tell her that.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I've always really liked you.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, you know what, Grant?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: I've always liked you.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: And switch, talk on the phone for 30 minutes, the storm passes.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: I get out and, you know, wipe off the windshield with my hand, I drive straight to her house, give her this big hug, and then I tell her I love her.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then, like, we knew immediately, you know, we were gonna get married, man.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: It was so awesome.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so honestly, like this journey to be here at Texas Tech and to be a red raider and to marry a red raider and to be a part of this family and have my masters from here, and to tell people genuinely and honestly, that I feel like this is exactly where we're supposed to be and how we're supposed to do this, and who I'm supposed to do it with, and the conviction that God's given me in a way that it's really, really clear and really built on an honest love for the people in this community and for this university, and how we've started, and how my wife and I started, and how we get to journey on this thing together.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it was out of disappointment, too, that we got let go and we had to move away from here because we loved living here and we thought this would be a place that we get to stay.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so, for this all to connect, man, I can't tell you how deeply I am convicted about it and how deeply I am thankful for my wife for helping put this all into place.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's unbelievable to hear that story.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's thy will be done.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the true uh, you know, coming together of husband and wife, and then to be so connected to the university and then bring it full circle and you know, a couple of other connection points.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: When when Tech opened that arena, they played Indiana of all people.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Bob Knight, and that was right after one of his hunting incidents.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you remember that, but there was hundreds of people there in orange gear.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and all of that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: But uh what a blessing, you know, it was for you to find here.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to move next to the you know, you're I think you're at the Big 12 tournament, you know, when you see something roll across the screen that you know takes you from director of basketball operations at Texas Tech to somewhere in Colorado pretty quick.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And talk to us about that transition of life for you.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, um I was in coach's suite, uh Coach Dickie's suite.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: And and we thought we had a little bit more time, but and things change as you know.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so uh we look across the ticker, and there it is.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh, you know, uh TexteTech's gonna hire Bob Knight.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so really quickly, you're trying to figure out what's next.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm getting married in July, don't have a job, and don't know where I'm gonna end up.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: And there was a a uh uh junior college in Colorado called Northeastern Junior College, and had some other opportunities to maybe be a Division I assistant, but Cece and I were maybe excited about this journey of going to Colorado together.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: But the job paid to live in the residence hall in Herbald Scheimer Hall.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so they said, hey, you're gonna be able to help out with the basketball team.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And the big thing for me at this time that I'd realized there's only so many assistants that get to recruit.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: And recruiting is such a huge part of college basketball.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: The more you get to recruit, and that experience really was the way that you move up.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so if I went to a couple of places, they were like, look, you're not gonna get to recruit, but going to junior college, you get to do everything and recruit.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: And they said, well, but if you want to work, you got to live in the residence halls, and you don't really necessarily get to say you're an assistant, but you get to recruit and you get to help us with this staff, and you'll be the third assistant, which in junior college means you don't get paid and you need to find another job.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so Cece and I worked in Herbal Chimer Hall, which was, you know, a predominantly agriculture uh hall with 60 students, uh, guys and girls.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was a co-ed and different floors, and I and it was an unbelievable experience.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're talking about some hardworking people that I identified with.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: It was so much fun.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: And the unfortunate part was, you know, you just had to do that job and coach basketball.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, our job responsibility was to, you know, monitor the residence hall.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: We put on functions.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: I had to write people up, and I'd tell the story is, you know, they would spend a lot of time working.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, a lot of those young guy, young uh men and women would get up at 4 a.m., but they'd stay up till three.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd have to go write them up for different things.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And ironically, one of the most things I wrote people up for it was actually the the females in the residence hall for chewing tobacco and leaving their spit cups everywhere.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just, you know, what you what you'll do to coach college basketball, that's what people don't know, is just, you know, write people up for leaving their spit cups everywhere and loving them too at the same time and living life with them, and then traveling and driving four hours in the middle of the night to go recruit in Nebraska and all over Colorado, and then drive back and then open up the event center in the morning where people at 4:30 a.m.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: would work out and then teach a class and then coach basketball and then go back to the residence halls till 2 a.m.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: And CeCe and I got a pretty good introduction of just loving people, you know.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's kind of the tie to all this that we learned really quickly is that if you want to be great at something, honestly, then what you learn to do is to help people become the best they can be in every situation, whether that was living in the residence hall, whether that was teaching a fitness class at Northeastern Junior College, or whether that was um coaching basketball, which is what I wanted to do, and getting people to get in a stance and work on shell drill, you know, and you're just exhausted.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: And my wife was working at Head Start, which was a great little program that we were in.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then at night we would just pass out in the in the dorm with people knocking at our door, hammered drunk, wondering where their room was.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd have to go walk into the third floor, like wrong, wrong room.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: This is mine.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but man, so thankful for that because you you got to see, I think, what it takes to really be great at this.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's less about the money and the fame.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's more about the impact that you can have on people.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the that was an awesome journey to live in the residence halls and work in the event center and coach coach basketball for free.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: We can't talk about all your stops here because we want to get into some deeper subjects, but then you go on to Midland Junior College, win a national, win a national title.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that 06, 07, 07, 07 down there.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Then you go to Midwestern State, you're kind of circling West Texas here.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then uh, you know, go from there to, I believe, uh to Baylor, uh, an assistant under Scott Drew.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think he coached with Jerome Tane uh as well uh while at Baylor.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Then you go to Arkansas State, then you go to North Texas and kind of make in the full circle where you come back to Lubbock.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, I know we can't talk about all of those experiences, but what what's what's an experience or two during those stops that prepared you to be the head coach at Texas Tech in the Big 12?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think the junior college experience in turnover really was hugely pivotal.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the thing that you do is every year or so you gotta turn your roster over and figure out a way to win with them.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, when we first got there, we lost on a tip dunk at the buzzer in the Elite Eight in our first season at Midland College.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: And that was my first year as a head coach.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: And actually, Jeff Linder and I were on staff for two years together.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I'd met him at Northeastern.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: He was recruiting a couple of our guys.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so we started our journey together, and I begged him to come with me to Midland and leave where he was at Emporia State, a Division II school in Kansas.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And he and I started our journey together coaching at Midland.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: And we lost, and I and I got to tell people the truth.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I first became a head coach, man, I was just happy to be at the national tournament.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: In our conference was Steve Green, who's honestly a level in South Plains legend and worked at tech, and then uh Mark Adams was at Howard.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so, I mean, I was getting my teeth kicked in at a young at 26 by some really good head coaches and had to learn.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: And our first year, we actually ended up beating those guys and going to the national tournament.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: And we lost in the Elite Eight, and that's where I we have believe, give, competes our deal.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I said, I'll never play for anything other than a national championship after that.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I love being at tech, because we can win a national championship.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then three years later, we go back and win a national championship, is 25 years from the last time they'd won it with the old times of Spud Webb, Mookie Playlock, and Ricky Grace, all those great players, and and uh Todd Duncan being one of those guys, too, that was actually a middling guy that ended up playing at tech.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: But that was such a great experience.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Went on to division two, like you said.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I'll tell you taking over at Arkansas State and then going to North Texas, those were pivotal because that's division one and that learning curve of how you tell people the truth, how you recruit with honesty and how you love people.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: And probably the biggest thing I learned was admitting when you mess up.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that being a life lesson that's hard to do, the more people look at you and tell you, we trust you, you're supposed to be great, and then you don't want to let them down.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: So you you start to, and two things that I I remember about uh being at North Texas.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: One, we had the best start in school's history one year.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: We were 17 and one.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: And we're on our way to what looks like even possibly a, you know, a uh a run that had never been accomplished at North Texas.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: And we had a the number one after timeout offense in the country.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: So that meant every time you come out of a timeout, you run a play and it works.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to get a coach's ego up, that's a good one.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: And and so I remember this so distinctly.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: We came out of a timeout, and this is when we were about 17 and one, and I s and and not one of our plays worked, and it was against a really good team.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: Dusty May was actually in our conference, who's now the head coach at Michigan, and it worked, and I said audibly, like out loud on the bench, dang, I'm good at this.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: And like this is embarrassing to admit, but this is the truth.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like we ended up losing seven of our last eight games, and we got three of our best players hurt through some freak things that happened, which is uniquely something that you learn how to deal with.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: And really quickly, we went from having the number one ATO to number 238 in the country.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so the Lord's like looking at me like, hey, dude, oh, you got this figured out.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, let me tell you how great you are without your better players.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so I, you know, I like those times, and then we get to the end of the season, and we ended up really learning that next year and going through a journey of like, how do you get people to believe and be honest?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: And fast forward, we end up having a season where we go to the win the conference by the most wins in school's history, in the history of the league of Conference USA, the most ever.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: And and the heart behind it being a humility that we hold what we do in life.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: You can do it three different ways, I think.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: You can think it's yours and just squeeze it to death and tell it like, hey, I got I'm in control of all this and I have all this, or you can be flippant and not hold it with any real resolve and grit and be like, whatever, it happens.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: But I think there's a posture in our heart that I learned through that experience of thinking I was such a good coach.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: And number one, that if we hold it in a way that's a steward of this, and our heart is to make it better, and then it's not ours, but how do we every day step into our team and find ways to give and to learn to help make other people better, not tell other people how great we are or impose our will to show people how great we are?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: But how do you make other people better every day?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you what, it was a real fight in athletics and in life that you have success.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: And the moment you have success and you have the best record in school's history, can you have the humility that it takes to love other people in those moments?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then another one, we're we're we've won.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: We've had a win in the uh NCA tournament against Purdue.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: We've had the best record in school's history.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: And my father had a stroke who I told you was really impactful on my life.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: And we're playing in Florida against Kansas.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: And this is at North Texas, and one of our best players, Thomas Bell, I was on him, and I know people can identify with this because they see me get on our players pretty good.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I was on Thomas Bell, and I got done with the game.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: We ended up losing to Kansas, and my dad sent me a really long text.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: And at this point, he had a difficult time communicating verbally because of the stroke, but he had sent me a really long text that said, Hey, Grant, I love you.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're my son.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: I've always loved you, but I want you to hear this from me.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: You need to apologize to Thomas Bell because you took it over the edge.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: And he'd never, I'm telling you, in my entire time as a head coach, he'd always been supported and loved me.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: And he'd never basically said, Hey, you were wrong in what you did.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: He'd be like, Me, I mean, like anybody, he'd be like, Why are you running that offense?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, thanks, Dad.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: But like, convictedly had a long page.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I called Thomas Bell in the office, and we're in there, and I'm telling you, we're both weeping.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I just told him, man, I messed this deal up, man.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to tell you how much I love you.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to tell you what an impact you made on my life.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to encourage you, he's like, Coach, I was gonna come talk to you today and tell you that I needed you to help me do this differently.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm telling you, us hugging in that room, and I love Thomas Bell to this day.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: We ended up, he was a part of our team that played in the NCAA tournament, and he was a part of the team that went 16 and 2 and had the best record in school's history.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: We ended up going and winning the NIT, but it was a real honest part of this that's not a celebration of cutting down nets.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't in front of everybody telling you how great you were.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was in a loss that I think I grew the most as a leader and as a coach because of my father being honest with me and telling me, hey, Grant, you need to apologize to Thomas.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then instead of going like, oh, I gotta be tough on these guys, I listened to my father and I said, Dad, I love you.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I called him in and I did it, and it changed both of our lives.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: And Thomas Bellistay is someone that I talk to literally weekly and monthly.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's my heart for all of this is how often can we be in a place of leadership where to get the best out of people, you have to honestly tell them when you mess up and you got to ask for forgiveness.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: You can't just sit there and tell them, like, I'm a leader and you just need to do what I say.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's a real, real heart for other people in this that's that's not tied just to the success of winning and losing a basketball game.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's tied to the how do you help someone grow and be the best man that they can be?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the best thing we can do as leaders is apologize when we mess these things up.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: I really do believe it.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I do to this day.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: And because of that, it I don't care if we win or lose.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, not I don't care, but I what I hope the heart is that our team sees the passion and love that we have together.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: And the only way to get better is to pour everything we have into this, and then when we mess up, have an open heart to say, how do how can I get coached?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: And and this is my heart.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: How can I tell people the truth and apologize when I don't do things well?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's honestly been some pivotal things uh that I've learned in that journey and being at North Texas and doing that was a couple of big things.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, your servant leadership, that's r that's what it's that's what it's called of serving serving others to you know for the greater good here.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, it's led to a very successful tenure for you.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, winning over 70% of your games.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Kirby, Dusty, and I were talking the other day, and you've you've improved the winning percentage at every one of the schools you've been to on average twenty percent uh higher uh at Texas Tech.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've had your full team available to play I think ten times out of 120 or not 120, close to 120 games now in in uh in three seasons, but you never use that as an excuse and you expect to win every time you step out on the floor and and you do it with the guys that are there and and ready.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very admirable deal.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's let's dig a little deeper.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to find some comparisons to the business world of what you do and what uh what the business world is doing.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so as a head coach in this NIL and transfer portal era, you kind of alluded to it um a while ago, um, you know, talking about your junior college days, but it's really a lot of work um and probably fun too, but a lot of work.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to put together a team in a relatively short period of time.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then also you know, you got your on-the-floor team, then you have your off-the-floor, your coaching staff and everybody surrounding in that.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in the business world, sometimes you've got to fill, you know, open positions, you need to move quick and whatnot.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: What can you share about what that process is like and what how you go about thinking and what you actually go and do?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, you know, when we first took this job over, I can tell you we we caught a lot of grief because we didn't move very quick.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the one thing it was like everybody was like, Well, why are you taking so long?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, part of it was, and this is my heart for it, is I want to find people, and I mean this sincerely, that are better at this than I am.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a that's that takes some time.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: And how do you put that together?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what's been cool.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like Matt Breyer, who's a head coach now at Stephen F.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: Austin, there won the conference outright in the first season after winning less than half the games.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: And Matty B is brilliant.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the guy can not only coach basketball, but he can build tables.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's unbelievable what he can do.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, literally, he can hit a golf ball, like 325 yards, and literally he played in on the Sweet 16 team at Wichita State, creative offensively, unbelievable husband and father.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just how do you find people?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's really important that not only have the passion and vision for what you want, but really do care about people.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the separator in what we do.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is like you can have a high skill level, you can have a very determined person that has great work ethic, but how do they help have the heart that they want other people around them to be better?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you a couple things that we do.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: One is I really, as much as we can with what we do, really put it on the team to help brainstorm how we want to put this together.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: So once we get those people that I know that we do life similar, that we love people in a way, that you want them to be as great a people as you do basketball players.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Once you have that heart and you have that skill and that talent put together, we spend a lot of time together making sure that we're all fitting into this.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like everybody is on board with this person being a part of what we're doing.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: And what we do as college basketball coaches is has some really intense moments.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're you're on display in front of everybody to see it.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: So there's some things that are unique to what we do.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I honestly I believe that if you can have everybody's belief and connectedness to how you want to put this together, it really helps build this in a way that they have that same ownership and that person be a part of what you do.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: And if you came and watched our practices and you would see them, you would hear, and some people they've commented on this, you'd hear that our coaches have a loud voice in what they do.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: And they actually communicate as much as I do in these practice sessions.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why it's so important that the conviction of what they do matches what I, what the heart for it is that I want for them.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really an important part about putting a staff together.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think taking your time and getting it right and making sure that you don't rush into it is a really important part of this.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you that doesn't always work out that way.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: But as diligent as you can be to make sure that everyone's connected for a purpose that's bigger than just earning money, that's just what maybe their job description is, really does give you a greater purpose to how to build it so that when you give them leadership roles and you give them more, just much like I do with our staff.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: And when people comment on that, what that requires of me is a lot more work on the front end and on the back end of working with people, not just walking into practice and I've done both, where I just get out there and I tell everybody what to do.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: So then everybody's like always trying to figure out what I want where when I can help them be prepared in these practices, where I can help them be prepared in these opportunities by giving them my direction before we get out there and then encouraging them to improve so that our team can better, so that everybody has a voice, so that everybody can be involved in a way that everybody can build up.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then you got to go work behind and then constantly have conversations to build up what we're doing.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: And there and there are times where we get after it on the court and there's time it takes more time, but it's so much worth it because I think what people hear is a common voice that everybody's connected with that purpose, and everybody can move in a direction where your improvement grows at such a rapid rate.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll tell you, a big part of my journey and learning this is screwing it up, though.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I've made as many mistakes as I have, improved it.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the heart behind this.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the heart of giving people leadership roles.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the heart behind this is that like, it doesn't matter if you mess up, and that's when people see me coach guys really hard.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I've said this, it's not that I expect them to be perfect.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's I enjoy the squeeze of how you put people in leadership roles, how do you give them responsibility, how do you empower them, but then also how do you hold them accountable and then still love them behind the scenes and tell them, like, hey, this is awesome.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing great work, let's keep pursuing this.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then everybody has to grow with you.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: No one gets left behind.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody's a part of this journey, and everybody's in the middle of it, and everybody's moving in a direction that I think builds us up, takes a lot of work.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the part that maybe people don't want to do is the behind-the-scenes work to give people opportunity and have hard conversations and build people up and give them responsibility because it sometimes it doesn't work out.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where as a leader, you got to be willing to say, hey, man, I messed this thing up.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's where everybody's heart is that way.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then how do you move forward quickly and don't make a big deal out of what didn't work as much as how you want to improve and how you want to move forward.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: So putting staffs together, putting teams together, playing better as a team, improving your group and how you do that, man.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think it all kind of fits the same mold, honestly, of believing in people and finding people that have a heart to get better.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a big, that's a big part of winning.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: People, people see you with your players, and obviously you've got tremendous passion and and competitive fire.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: We did get a question from our from our followers, CEO, our the CEO of Seven Crew Enterprises, Kendra Burris, uh, runs the, I don't know if you know this, the the second fastest growing seven brew franchise in the country.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: They have over 4,000 employees.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: The average age is 21.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you can relate to this.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: She wants to know when you are coaching your players hard or employees hard, what do you do to develop a relationship even when you really got to get after them?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you how do you go about that?
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, uh uh two parts of this.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think on the front end of these of these opportunities that we have together that I love to paint a picture, and I think people do this in the business world too.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: You tell people all the great things, a part of the job that you get to do.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: And there are a lot of great things in college basketball.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to see it.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: You're on TV, you travel well, like you know, there's some things, notoriety that you get to have.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I think there's an honesty at the very beginning of things that you know people need to improve in, and you give them a realistic approach.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where you can make everything sound great as an employer or as a basketball coach.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I've learned.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've tried to do in the past.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we'll start you at the point, you'll play a lot, you'll get lots of shots.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: Then they get there and they don't get any of those things.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I think there's this balance at the beginning of it that you tell people, if you know what you know some of their weaknesses are by your development of a relationship, that you're honest in the things that they have to improve on.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then, but you have a hopeful approach of where you want to help them get and the opportunities that you get being a part of the organization.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: But you have to do it from the beginning.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: I honestly believe, as honest as you can be at the beginning, that it's it's hopeful and it's with belief of positivity of where you want to go, but of authenticity of the things that you know they don't do well.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I did it with like Chance McMillan.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's one of the best stories is Chance McMillan came to us and was a great player at Grand Canyon prior to us being a red raider.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then he had his best seasons ever at Texas Tech in back-to-back seasons, better than at Grand Canyon, which is a higher level, more competition, tougher competition.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: And the one thing I did with Chance, he came in and said, I want to play the point guard position.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: I said, I'm not doing that.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_03: And in the past, the younger me would have been like, you're gonna play the point, make it sound real good.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: And the other thing I did was like, I said, you will get the opportunity.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: We'll work really hard to help you get where you can do that, which he ended up doing it actually his senior year because of uh because of some injuries.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I also said, you're not a great defender.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason why you want to come to Texas Tech is because we've had great defensive teams, and I'll believe in you and I'll help you become the best defensive player, which in turn will give you the best opportunity to play on any team professionally in the world if you will buy into what we need to do to help you become a better on-ball defender.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't give him the perfect picture of this.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then when he gets here, every time I challenge him, there's a reference point of honesty from the beginning that he knows that I honestly believe in him, but I'm gonna hold him accountable so that he becomes the best for the greater purpose of everybody around you.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: And what my heart is every day, and this is part of that journey, is twofold.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where Kendra, she's super smart, by the way.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: So she's doing all this, but it's honestly giving people a belief of where they're always going.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you're always telling them that behind the scenes.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: You're always encouraging them for the purpose of how this is the key, I think.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: This is the key, not for what they get out of it, but how do they help other people around them become great?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: And that's honestly where I think you take this.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what's awesome about being a part of a team.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: Whether it's a seven brew location, that's your team.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: And like, how do you help other people become great?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so what I would challenge chance is don't do this because it makes you better.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do this because it makes us better.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: We win more games.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: You get to improve and you can help those other people become great.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: So then your heart and the way you look at it isn't for your own benefit, it's for the benefit of other people.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that is honestly the greatest part of being a part of a team.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Whether it be you're on your work for an organization or you play college basketball for the Red Raiders, or you work at Seven Brew.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, how do I improve in such a way that I help other people become better?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: And when you do it that way, you you you take so many great huge streets and you do things that you would have never done individually for other people that actually make everybody better, which in turn allow people to trust you.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know who you work with in life, but you want to work with those people that are for you and helping you and have always been there for you when things got difficult.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what Chance McMillan was for me, and that's what he was for other people.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Even though he wanted to be a point guard and he wanted to play professionally, he wanted all the shots.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: The more he learned to give, the more he actually got in the end.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that starts to domino and build belief in what you're doing as a group, but it's got to be rooted in honesty, but with hope that they can get where they want to get ultimately, but it's not tied to your own success.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's to lifting other people around you.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's tremendous, coach.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I I can only imagine that the conversation you had with Chance about let me hone your defensive skills is probably 90% of the conversations that you have because all of these kids can have some offensive, you know, offensive skill and probably don't work on the defensive end as much.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Are we is the high are we close on that?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's pretty accurate.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, you know this, there's a heart and competitiveness that you can see ultimately of the of of the the young people we get to work with that they do want to be great.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um couple other questions here as we dig deep.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you you know, you businesses and I'm sure you do this as well.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, you have team practice time, but you know, individual players, whether it's JT Toppin or Christian Anderson or Law Watts, you know, they need to work on individual parts of their game.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that your y'all staff is coaching them and all of that.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do to work on your game to say, hey, I'm I haven't arrived at 49 years old and I've reached the pinnacle.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing to get better every day?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: You got me.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I think there's two parts of this that I think are really important.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I'll tell you, I'm thankful that I'm married and I've got four awesome kids because if not, I think the obsessive with obsession with trying to be a great college basketball coach, you would dominate your time.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: And there's there's no what's the key word to this?
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's no greater um uh lesson on humility than to be married.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and just just the real aspect of when you're exhausted doing all the things that we do in life, and that's goes with for what CC does too, then you get the opportunity and and some of your weaker moments, how how do you love your spouse and how do you serve them in a real way?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_03: That when maybe your tank's pretty empty, how how do you in genuine ways love people at your worst and and still be there for people?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: And my wife is the greatest example of that that I know.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so one area um specifically to that is just how do I fill up my tank by being with them in a genuine way and allowing myself to love them and not get so consumed with work that I don't see the greatest responsibility that I have, which is be a husband and be a father.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: And those are the two greatest responsibilities that I have.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: And don't put those first in a way that's real.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: And how do I drive into the driveway and like, you know, punch in the air, give a couple slaps and go, let's go, bro.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta like be great, man.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is not, you ain't done.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: This is where you get started.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so one is just the constant fight for putting your priorities in order.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I'll tell you, I think is is is one.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: But probably the foundation of that is there's a few people that I meet with regularly that I give the the authority to be honest with me and tell me that when I'm screwing up.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: And one of them is a guy that's one of our chaplains uh that works with us, and and um his name's Kevin Fox.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: And and actually I'm always calling him, and anytime he's around our team a lot.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I've done some stupid stuff, okay?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm gonna be the first to say it.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: And and you gotta have people around you that can tell you when you're being stupid, you know, that actually aren't on the outside, but on the inside and doing life with you.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: But not afraid to tell you to tell you.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and honestly, I mean, he he's a pastor, so I'm I'm telling you, like, there's a biblical principle to all this that like if if I'm not having a foundation, if you're asking me the truth, it's it's is is I spend time reading God's word, that's really important to me.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the that's the light uh into my feet and the path that gives me a direction that I think is foundational and it's not it's not um it's not my own opinions.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_03: And my heart's pointed toward the affections of not being praised and not being identified with wins and losses, and there's a greater purpose in my heart.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then having friends that regularly I get allow them to ask me hard questions and that can tell me when I'm being dumb and are not afraid to tell me when they see a blind spot happening in my life.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you're asking me what I do to help keep guardrails up, those are two big ones, man.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: And one of them is just how do I love my wife?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a hard one.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm it's probably the hardest thing I do.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not because of who she is, it's because of my own pride of wanting to be a great basketball coach and getting consumed with trying to win a basketball game and love the people you're with and the exhaustion that goes with working.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then that how that starts to take over.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: And now I'm giving my kids and my wife scraps.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think it's got to be the opposite.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_03: How do I love her?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: How do I lift her up?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: How do I protect her in a way that is she feels encouraged?
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then, and then how do I love my kids?
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then how do I involve them in what we're doing, as opposed to being separate?
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then how do you allow people in your life to tell you the truth, man?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: And those are those are two big, those are two big ones.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Last question, then we're going around the horn, have a little fun.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, last segment on the show.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, you've told how all things, you know, point to Texas Tech in your life and a huge connection point.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I know, I know tech and Lubbock mean a great deal to you.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about what you feel is special about this university, Lubbock, West Texas.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: What what what makes it special for you?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's already the ties to it, but uh I'll tell you Cece and I were at Northeastern Junior College and then came to Midland.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I got to be an assistant coach to Shannon Hayes, who Larry Hayes is the longtime legendary.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: He was an assistant with us at tech when I worked for Coach Dickey, and then he got the head job at Midland College, and he hired me to be his assistant.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was assistant for one year before I got the head coaching job.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so Cece and I were head coaches and assistant coaches.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: And Larry Hayes, um, who's the head baseball coach at Texas Tech at the time, we didn't have the money to go to the national tournament, Cece.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_03: And he came to us and handed my wife cash and said, Look, for the rest of your life, you will do this together, or it's not worth doing.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: And we went to the national tournament that year together.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the next year I became the head coach and we decided we were going to do this journey together.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, six years there at Midland, we all of our kids were born there.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: Beckett was conceived there.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: We ended up moving to Midwestern state.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: But living in West Texas, the Permian Basin, and her and I living together for two years, we had spent basically our entire most of our married life in West Texas for eight years.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: Our kids were all born here.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: So honestly, there's a weird part of this that this is home, you know?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then for us to move around and go all these different places, I think if you asked us both, like where our home is, she was born in Irving and lived there all her life.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was born in Weatherford and moved around because of my dad's job.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I will tell you because of our family and because of who we are, this is home.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: And this is where we started.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's a uniqueness when you love people.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been offered a lot of jobs.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not trying to say that like it's awesome, but I've been offered a lot of jobs.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: And there were several Division I head jobs of high major schools that called us before Tech offered us a job.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll never forget being on that Zoom with Dusty Womble and Joey McGuire, and when and and obviously, you know, Norrence Odiasi and Jonathan Boutros and Kirby Hokutt.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: And when I flipped that Zoom on, every part of me was like, I gotta say this, I love Mark Adams and Chris Beard and Tubby Smith and everybody that's been head coaches here.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_03: I never thought I should have been the head coach at Texas Tech because I thought Chris was unbelievable and I thought he'd stay here forever.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_03: I thought Mark was unbelievable.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: I thought he'd stay here forever from Lubbock and all the awesome things.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I never wanted the tech job for that purpose.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: But when it had become open, when it first flipped on and I talked to him, I what I wanted to say was like, why did this take so long for us to have this conversation?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_03: But that's but that's just my heart for loving this place.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's the genuine part of it.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not that I should have been the head coach because I wasn't qualified to that point.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: God had a timing that was perfect for what we were supposed to do.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I can tell you, I didn't really want to be a head coach for the purpose of being a Division I head coach.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't, I wasn't caught up in like, how do I get to the, how do I get make with this money and how do I get in a Big 12?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was just like, I wanted to be at North Texas because that's where all my family lived.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: My dad lived 10 minutes from me.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_03: My we we ate dinners nightly with her parents and my parents.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was like the one of the coolest times of my life.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we had got to be everybody involved.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: We had to build a program that had won six games before, and now we've won back-to-back-to-back conference championships and we were doing some awesome things.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't like I was in a hurry, but I'm telling you, there was such a deep conviction with the passion and history.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: And when this opportunity came, it was I remember being at Tyler Technologies in Frisco, I mean, or whatever it was, yeah.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: And sitting in there, and I I remember walking out and shaking Dusty's hand and being like, I promise you we are going to win big.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: And he's kind of looking at me like, we'll see, my man.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: He said that.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: But he but he believed, but there was also like a D I what people, what they heard and what they knew from me was like, I love being a Red Raider.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: And um It's the people in grid of West Texas that I identify with the most.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's there's it's not entitled, you know.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like my wife had to pay for college for a lot of it.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I had to pay to go to Baylor.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you're paying off to my great parents, but like, you know, like just we were both walk-ons, and we both scrapped and clawed for opportunities, and she was a starter and a really good player, so I was not.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: But like our just the the the grit that it takes and all the journeys and stops, we've had to build it in a way that you didn't always have the greatest resources, and we have great resources here, so I love being a part of this, but also there's this belief that we can win the whole thing and that we're gonna do this at the highest level, and that's kind of what living here is.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you don't live here because of the the maybe the out external beauty, but you live here because the sunsets are amazing, the people are amazing, and the grit that you get to be a part of a community that has the same heart.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, first job opportunity where I told my wife I loved her, where we both got a chance to be a part of success and her crab tree catch celebration.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: She is the biggest Red Raider fan you could ever imagine.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that part puts it all together with the grit of living here, and our family was started here, and all our kids were basically born here in West Texas, and the people that you get to do life with are people that I I love and I identify with in the deepest of ways.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so there, there's all that, and then there's like the high expectation that we can win the whole thing here.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: And there, there how rare is that that you're at a place that has both.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: That like that you identify with the people because of who you are as a person and how you were raised, but then you also have like this opportunity to be the best at what you do in the world.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like that part is unique, and that is Texas Tech, and that's what being a Red Raider is.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome, Coach.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: You you summed up this area very well.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: I do believe that Red Raider, Red, first off, Red Raider Nation loves your family, loves CC.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: You got four, uh is it Amoris or Amaris?
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Amheris.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: Amorous, okay.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Jersey, and then Jet and Beckett.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: And Red Raider Nation loves your family, and we're so glad you're here.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and we feel, we feel like we're in the lion's den with you every dime because you're a you're a West Texan.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're uh been here you know all your life.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's have a little fun here to wrap up.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do a little segment called Around the Horn.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know what these questions are, these are 10 seconds or less answers.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna move through these pretty quick.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: We've got about 10 of them.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm terrible at this just before we get started.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, some of these you might want to give a longer.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna put a shot clock, we're coming out of the gate swinging.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just give me a bang, and then we'll go.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're coming out of the gate swinging here.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: What level of rock climber are you?
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: A suck.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Zero.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: My wife does love Valentine's Day.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_03: She told me, hey, I got a surprise for you.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_03: We're doing something for Valentine's Day.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, we're gonna go eat.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_03: And she takes me to the rock climbing gym here in Spire Rock, and we climbed two holes.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say I got to the top, so maybe not suck, but I'm not the best.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm the worst in our family for sure.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do to recharge?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Mountains, beach, what do you do to recharge?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, mountains, uh, but we we love the lake.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up on a lake and uh skiing behind a bass boat, so it's not perfect.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: But no, we love our family loves the lake, but Cece and I's favorite thing to do is to go backpacking and spend a couple nights in the mountains.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: What is one skill you wish you had?
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: I wish I was a better pickleball player right now.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get to play ever, but I'd like to beat people.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: Some of those associated with Imass Rider Capital are a little afraid to play pickleball with knee injuries and Keely's dead injured.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's all it's an injury weight.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hate losing or love winning more?
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I hate losing.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not close.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: We've had the you've met some of our golf group, our friend group.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've had this long-running debate.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't actually gone to the indoor sports uh indoor track to actually do this.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: But do you think Dusty Womble can high jump four feet?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: No way.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: I love you, Dusty, but no way.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, uh this would be entertaining.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm there.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, just tell me when and where.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we've got to make this happen because he's been talking about this for 15 years, that he can no doubt high jump four feet.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: Does he know the longer you wait, the worse is the opportunity you get to do this?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: He better jump quick.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: Would have been better to do this 15 years ago, Dusty.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this podcast will make it happen.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, all right, we got to tell you our turn Big 12 tournament idea.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you can say, hey, I don't need to talk about that if you want to.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: But me and Dusty, you know, you go through this grueling Big 12 conference season, and then you go to the Big 12 tournament right before you play for all the marbles.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the Big 12 tournament's great.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Our idea is to play the Big 12 tournament after non-conference, before the start of conference, after the last football game, and between the start of the playoffs and the bull season.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do it in Las Vegas.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: Guarantee every every every team three games that you play out there, it's part of the conference schedule, but the winner gets the automatic bid and you be the first league to hand it out every year.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that crazy?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's crazy, but it sure is awesome.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because what isn't crazy about college athletics right now?
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: But to your point, it's so grueling.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_03: And when you get to the end, you're so beat up.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: And the teams that are basically in the tournament, there's one team that basically has a chance.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll tell you, the only negative to me would be those teams that are possibly making the tournament, probably on the way out, that it keeps your team going to the very end.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: So you have a reason to like try to finish it out.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's the one thing that it takes away that would be difficult.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, it would definitely be more competitive and make it more compelling than it does at the end.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's that's what we think.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of starts the spring, but spring kick starts the season in a bit.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: And probably if you don't win that tournament, the teams that are gonna make the tournament are probably gonna make the tournament anyway.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: No doubt.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, what is the one game you've won playing or coaching that sticks out to you the most?
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: Probably the losses, but um it's hard to win.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_03: Don't remember the wins.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you, and it's the the CBI win uh when we played Matt Mooney at South Dakota.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was like one of the original crazy wins that we weren't supposed to win.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we were 25-point dogs, and the guy that shot right-handed all season, I convinced to shoot left-handed for the game, and he made four threes in the game, and we ended up winning and beating Matt Mooney.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what was crazy is um that ended up propelling that team to win 20 games and winning a CBI which started the run of North Texas wins.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_03: But that was that was a pretty wild one.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: Matt is a beloved Red Raider.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you've gotten that.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: Man, there's nothing I'd rather do than hang out with Matt.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: What do you s what's your favorite meal to celebrate after a game?
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, I don't eat much after games, man.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I'll tell you, um, you can't beat a ribeye uh on on on uh flatstone at my house with my son.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: My son's an unbelievable jet.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: We used we cook steaks often, so if I had to pick one, that would be it.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_03: Two more.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: What's your favorite tech memory?
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what was cool?
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um beaten Arkansas in the in the Sweet 16.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_03: Coming back the way we did.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_03: Just the belief that it took.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that, and then uh this is probably the one that sticks out to me more is being in in uh in Dallas when football won the Big 12 championship, man.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_03: You just because I know how much Joey and everybody, all Red Raiders had poured in to make that happen.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_03: And to see, to be in there with our basketball team and watch us win that was inspiring, man.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: It really was.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's something I'll never forget.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because our whole team was together very how often is that like our basketball team was together and got to watch it and got to see all the people that we do life with that we love so much when and everybody, you know, I mean anybody that you know that you love are all in that building together.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: You might not be standing next to each other, but like to all experience that together as a as a red raider, that was probably Yeah, and that's really when this year's group really started came out and really played well against LSU.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from the very tip, and that was the start to what has propelled this group.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: Last question What is the one thing of your day-to-day routine that you just can't live without?
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: Dang.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'll tell you something that's unique.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: I love, I love music, obviously.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_03: I've been listening to Mumford and Sons a bunch recently, like just like two like pastors' kids, I think, that like didn't like the church but love each other and then listen to their stories.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I love listening to music and my heart, and something for me is worshiping God.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_03: I love it, man.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: So listen to music that would worship God is kind of my heart because everybody wants to tell you how much you're great in life or you suck.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it's one posture where you're open-handed and worshiping God.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: I love, I love that.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: So that's usually a daily routine where I try to listen to a song at least that puts my heart in a way that's not about me.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: Coach, you completed the around the horn segment.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't thank you enough for being here today.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was incredibly uh informative and entertaining.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we thank you so much for making the time to be here.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: We know your schedule is around the clock, and we really are appreciative for you being here today.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: Your genuine care for the relationships that you have both on and off the court is it is truly inspirational, and we're appreciative that you took the time to come here and share some of your journey with us.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was awesome, Jeff.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you having me.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: That does it for our episode here with Coach Grant McCasslin.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Heights of Victory.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: You want to ask us a question, leave us a comment, or you can email us at heightsofvictory at masterider.com.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us on this episode, and we'll see you next time on the Heights of Victory.