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Your Niche is How You Add the Most Value | with Jim Rowe · GAIN Momentum

• ​GAIN Momentum episode #37 - Your Niche is How You Add the Most Value | with Jim Rowe === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the Gain Momentum podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I'm joined by our co host today, Michael Cohen. How are you? Michael Cohen: Hello, Adam. Good morning. Looking forward to this one. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, really looking forward to it. Our special guest today is Jim Rowe, Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing at Jonas Hospitality Property Systems. How are you, Jim? Jim Rowe: I'm Great Adam, thank you very much. Thanks for having me on. Adam Mogelonsky: Great to have you on. And we focus on timeless lessons, and we frame that around four key questions that we ask all hospitality technology professionals. So, Jim, the first question is, how do you When it comes to scaling a business, what is the single piece of advice you would give [00:01:00] entrepreneurs from your perspective as a professional in hospitality technology? Jim Rowe: great question. my biggest piece or single piece of advice I would give would be to know your product. Um, know where you fit in the industry. Don't try and be too much too soon. Um, really focus in on the audience that you can satisfy and serve well. and do that to the best of your ability. Michael Cohen: Wow. That's one of the most concise answers we've ever had. A multitude of these podcast sessions. So first of all, kudos. Second of all, like that just resonates perfectly because usually in our industry, people think that they have to either boil the ocean, They have this incredible micro slice of innovation that's going to change the world. So it's usually either one extreme or the other. And to have that balance is [00:02:00] really the art of commercialization of technology in general. I mean, Jim, what you just said really is applicable to any industry. Almost every industry or vertical industry in regards to technology and innovation and rollout. So that's, that's really well put. Adam Mogelonsky: So on my end, one recurring term that we have in hospitality technology or hospitality in general is fragmentation. and there's so many different vendors out there vying for the eyes and ears of buyers, and within your definition for what the answer you just gave for scaling a business, how would you define Jonas Hospitality within that? Jim Rowe: Another good question. So, um, I guess in my, our perception, right? So I guess to, to take a step back, Jonas Hospitality or Jonas in general are an acquisition company. So, but where we differ from other acquisition or other acquirers in the industry is we buy and hold forever. Right, so we run a decentralized [00:03:00] model, whereas we acquire a company, we keep that identity in place, and we let whomever the GM or the president is exclusively continue running that business and satisfying, uh, and doing everything they can to satisfy their customer base. what we don't do is, roll them up into one large organization, where you sometimes then lose, expertise within that business that we've acquired, right? So, so in a sense, Jonas Hospitality has always been, or historically always been, as we've made, A collection of best of breed solutions, which adds to the fragmentation that you just mentioned. We're changing that a little bit, and we can talk about that here in a little bit. But historically, that's what we've done. But because we are buy and hold forever, We look at things a little bit differently, right? From a scalability standpoint and things like that. We're not necessarily looking to just add bells and whistles because there's no exit strategy for us, right? So for us, we play the long game. We believe the tortoise wins the [00:04:00] race, right? to where we're constantly looking at how do we create longevity within this product set and this solution set to make sure in three years, five years, ten years, our customers are still satisfied and still. Still Jonas, you know, still working with Jonas Hospitality Solutions. Mm-Hmm. Michael Cohen: So, that's interesting. So, you know, when people, people oversimplify, that's what people do, including myself. a roll up. You hear that a lot, Jim, right? Like one strategy is to roll up, you know, we capture, different categories or subcategories and then, you're right, there's an exit strategy or it's a P& E type driven thing or something like that. And not that we need to get in the weeds specifically on business corporate structures, I don't think that's what the audience is dying to. listen to. No, but I think what you just said and what we know of our relationship with Jonas Hospitality as well is, you know, I see the best breed strategy. And the fact that interestingly, it's worth the discussion, the decision to [00:05:00] maintain autonomy in some respects, the decision to maintain leadership, which is really interesting from a sales and marketing perspective is a little different, you know, to have the, frankly, the confidence and the, vision to understand the that keeping some level of the integrity of each of each unit or each silo or each bucket or Whatever internally you discuss the various You know vendors in your portfolio. I think that's a fair statement portfolio is a word to use Jim Rowe: Yep. Michael Cohen: That's very different. And And why do you think it works versus the other the role of usual? Jim Rowe: so we, as we, as we acquire companies, we don't know a, your products, your customers, your solutions, your strategy better than whomever we're acquiring, right? Um, they know that space, right? They've been serving it for five years, 10 years, whatever it is, even if they're a startup, they've still been in that space for two to three years, whatever, whatever it is.[00:06:00] And so we don't want to come in and disrupt that. Right. You know, we want to come in and enhance that. We want to come in and say, Hey, here's some business metrics and some ratios that we use across all our portfolio to manage businesses. Here's some things that we would like you to work to attain, right? Because this is what creates longevity and makes a healthy business continue to run in five years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever that be. Um, so we try to share best practices versus rolling up and suggesting we can do it better. If that makes sense. We, so we try and create an inclusive culture, um, where people are encouraged to go out and make mistakes, right? Hey, you know, go, go make that mistake. Right. So we're all human. We all make them, right. I'll probably make two more this afternoon. Right. So, uh, um, so yeah, it's more of an inclusive culture where we share best practices and, and, and look to encourage people to continue satisfying the base that they serve. What I would say [00:07:00] culturally that's what makes it a little bit different as well. and that's certainly serves as well. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, one thing about the different strategies of roll ups versus maintaining different entities that are best in breed solutions, it draws back to the dreaded I word in hotel technology, and that is integrations. We've come across this word before in previous podcasts, and it deserves notion, mention here because of how You can maintain these separate entities, yet they all should have some synergy within them. So I'm wondering, how do you balance that process from a strategic level in terms of maintaining these best of breed solutions, but also having them work synergistically towards a bigger goal within Jonas Hospitality? Jim Rowe: Right. Yeah. So again, I'm glad you brought that up because whilst I mentioned earlier, while historically that's the way we've done where, where we're heading, right? And while we choose not to roll up operationally, we want [00:08:00] to roll up from a technology standpoint, right? So we, so what we'll, what we'll see at Hitech this year and what we're pushing is Jonas Hospitality by its unified platform, um, because we're releasing a, a CDP. Um, and we've already got an integration platform, so everybody that is acquired or comes into the Jonas Hospitality? portfolio is given, is asked to connect to our platform, right, and then what we can then do, so everybody then has the same language and can connect to that, so from another vendor, if we work with another vendor, the benefit for another vendor is they only have to write to us once. They write to the platform and then they could connect to multiple of our solutions, right? Regardless, even though we're decentralized, the integration framework for them is the same. But then with us rolling out a CDP, what we're also going to do is connect everything to where now there's that single guest profile. Um, across all the solutions that we offer. and so it takes away those siloed, you know, that, you know, the [00:09:00] siloed approach. Or, and it also takes away some of the challenges that we've seen, you know, we all hear about that sometimes the best of breed approach. brings to the table, right? Which is, which is integrations, right? So we are, we feel like we're a little bit, we're not the only one, but we're uniquely positioned to bridge the gap between best of breed and all in one, right? Because you can buy multiple solutions from Jonas Hospitality, but we're still going to have the That single mindset, there's still a GM focus on this PMS company, or this spa company, or this point of sale company, whatever it is, that's going to do everything they can to make sure you're fully satisfied with your business. And people, you know, different, different hotel groups may only, will buy different levels of solutions from them. Some might only buy one, some may buy two, some may still want other third parties that they've got relationships, and that's okay. We're not saying it's, Jonas only in our world. We're saying, hey, if you want to use a third party for this, that, that [00:10:00] works for us as well. Michael Cohen: It's interesting because normally in the many, many podcasts episodes that we've recorded and released, we rarely let the guests talk as much about their company as you just did. Jim Rowe: Sorry about that. Michael Cohen: No, no, no, no, no. I'm bringing it up for a reason, Jim. And you know why, because this is, you know, normally this is not an advertisement, but the cool thing is why we're, why we're happy to have this discussion is from our perspective as industry advisors and, and former CEOs and SVPs is We saw the difference in your organization, and we saw how it's an alternative, frankly, business structure, business model strategy. And, uh, and that's not just lip service because you're here and you're a guest. That's not because we're also partnering on a major event at Hitech, uh, for, you know, that's going to be the top evening event at Hitech, and that's wonderful. It's because intellectually and from execution wise, We saw a difference. We saw that this isn't, I wouldn't say [00:11:00] alternative, I'm not going to get that extreme, but it is a different path, right? And as you said, you're not the only one, but you're one of the organizations that have executed upon a strategy and vision that is a bit alternative than others. And I think we can leave it there and move on to the next question, Adam, but I think that's really why it's compelling. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. I think compelling is the right word. The other word I keep coming back to is flexibility as well. Michael Cohen: Yeah, well, if you want to know about Jim, he's not so flexible, but anyway, be Jim Rowe: I can't even touch my toes. Yeah, I can't even touch my toes. Adam Mogelonsky: Oh, well, flexible in spirit. Let's say that. Jim, our second question. What are some of the common pitfalls or failures you have witnessed that business owners should look to avoid when scaling their business? Well, Jim Rowe: would go to the reverse of the first question that I answered, right? And I think that would be trying to do too much too soon, right? So the [00:12:00] way, and again, full transparency. I didn't, I'm not a founder of Jonas, right? So, I didn't, I didn't obviously start it and things like that. But, you know, I've worked with multiple companies throughout my journey here, all at various levels. Some a startup, some obviously a little bit further along in their path. And what some of the pitfalls we see, or I see specifically, is people trying to do too much too soon. Right? And I think you mentioned earlier, Michael, people wanting to be something for everything, because that's what you want to go sell to the Pebble Beaches of the world, or whatever, whatever the, you know, the namesayers or the Marriots of the world, but really your solution doesn't warrant that yet, right? And I think you shouldn't be in a hurry. To get to that, try and build confidence and competency in the areas where you are successful, right, build those case studies, build that level of expertise, and then, you know, incrementally, every year or every quarter, whatever it is, you make the [00:13:00] box a little bit bigger, and your addressable market that you serve, you make that a little bit bigger. You don't start and go too big too soon. Michael Cohen: interestingly, you know, how I took what you just said was, it's not crawl, walk, run, but it's sort of like that, the trope, right? Crawl, crawl, walk, run. So, it's really about establishing Your presence, and that means a lot of different things, right? It could mean that you're establishing your, your reality as a business. You're validating your MVP. That's moving to a commercial product. You're satisfying your, investors expectations, initially keeping it tight, getting to execution, you know, meeting some KPIs. They could be smaller level KPIs initially, but they're still. KPI's or, or, execution targets or commercial targets. And then building, you know, I almost, when, when I've been involved and we've all been involved in this industry or in general for a long time is, uh, it's almost like building up scar tissue in a positive way. Learning how to [00:14:00] succeed in one of the most difficult industries in the world called the hospitality Jim Rowe: Right. Right. Michael Cohen: know this and people watching are going to go, Oh, here we go again. Well, we, it's true that hotels are hard. It's complex. Yeah. And Jim, you know this, and we all know this because we've been there, someone lands a deal. It's X Hotels, it's Y Brand, it's You know, Z ownership group. And yes, it's exciting. And, and we pop some, bottles of wine and we have a nice steak. And then we go, holy, you know what? Now we have to execute. Jim Rowe: Exactly. Michael Cohen: And that's where I, for me, take on what you just said was establish this kind of positive scar tissue of how to get it done, how to get it done, commercially, how to get it done, Obviously, product development wise, how to get it done from a deployment perspective. So it's whatever that means, hardware, software, cloud based, whatever, there's still levers to pull and plugs to plug in [00:15:00] and to make sure that it's deployed and supported well. And then you scale and then you go layers of growth, right? Layers of growth on product and layers of growth in commercial, hiring more commercial people, spending, having bigger marketing budget, but it's layers of growth. Expansion and growth. to me, that's in our industry for sure. I think that's the way it should Jim Rowe: I agree. It has to be a win win, right? You have to look to enter into it. It can't just be a win for the salesperson, right? You know, then, and then all of a sudden the client loses and the operation side of the business loses because they're trying to satisfy and service something that we probably shouldn't have sold, right? so it has to, it has to always be. a win win in mind. Adam Mogelonsky: the term that comes to mind is customer success. And, I'm wondering if you, could speak to any specific example that you've seen from a customer success standpoint, where you've you've made that announcement, you've signed with a brand with an ownership group, and then you have to now deliver. And how do [00:16:00] you, what would you recommend to other companies to properly navigate that process? Jim Rowe: Um, I think I would just go back to the same as what I just said here is, build slowly, you know, establish your niche or whatever it is, right? and, and establish and then build methodically. you might have multiple solutions available to somebody, but don't try and, um, Go all in too soon, right? let's understand the need that you're trying to solve, right? And understand, you know, ask good questions. I mean, we all know about the consultative sale and things like that, that, that everybody talks about these days, but I still think that's tried and tested, right? you have to truly understand the need you're trying to solve and you have to, recognize, what's most important at that point in time to the prospect or the customer. Um, and then solve that. You can always, as you build credibility and you build relationships, you can always come back if you do have more things. You can always come back and talk to them about [00:17:00] that. Once you've solved that initial need, and I think sometimes again, the reverse of that is the tendency of some people is to try and, hey, we have five things available. I want to talk to you about all these five things, but they truly only care about one. so it's trying to separate, you know, it's trying not to elevate your needs above the need of the client that you're trying to ultimately satisfy Michael Cohen: and the interesting thing, just to wrap up this question, is You know, people may think we're talking about startups or scale ups here. Yes, we are. But we're talking about all companies, Jim Rowe: Yeah. absolutely. Michael Cohen: and we, and we, um, we've worked for them, we've partnered with them, we've, we've been clients of them. All of us, you know, even, um, you know, massive global companies, it's just, it's the same principles you're talking about, Jim. It's just. Bigger, more zeros at the end of the agreements Or maybe the, the financial statements more touches, more regional, more global. But it's the same [00:18:00] scenario it's so tempting maybe to almost confuse the client partner or, maybe it's a distribution partner or whatever the. Transactional partner is, because you have them now, like, you know, they're interested in A, let's slam B, C, and G, and maybe we'll tell them about, we'll tell them about Z that's coming out in two years, right? And that's, uh, I've been there, by the way, I mean, as a younger executive, and we're all exuberant, I'm sitting in front of a major global brand, you know, one of the top seven in their headquarters, and you know, you, you start to roll, right? And you can see, and I learned. Hopefully it was great. It was early personally, but we've all done this and everyone who's been in the commercial side watching this has done it too, where we start seeing the client's eyes glass over and they start looking at their phone or they're looking somewhere because we've lost the room. Jim Rowe: Absolutely. Michael Cohen: Yeah. And that's, that's a really good piece of advice. Jim Rowe: You've prioritized your own agenda over theirs, right? and it is extremely tempting and you you absolutely see that people [00:19:00] early on in their careers, right? and hopefully they learn from that and recognize that's not the best practice. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, keep it simple. So, but mentioning here, Michael, you did say, you know, you're looking ahead applying X solution now, Y solution in six months, Z solution, maybe next year or two years, which is the perfect segue to our third question, which is all about the future. So Jim, what do you see as the key opportunities And challenges for hotel technology companies in 2024 and beyond? Jim Rowe: well, given Michael's comment earlier, I'm not going to plug Jonas at this moment in time, right? We're going to keep this high level and we're going to keep this generic here, right? And I think, you know, it's an ever changing landscape, right? And I don't know if I actually have the true answer to this because nobody can I can confidently say the impact AI is going to have on our industry at this moment in time. Uh, but I think it's going to be an [00:20:00] interesting journey these next five years, right, that all of us need to keep our ears to the ground and be reactive, proactive and reactive to the needs of how we can work more efficiently for our guests or our customers, and how we can help them advance their businesses by perhaps using technologies that don't currently either aren't mainstream today. so I, I think it'll be interesting. And I think from an entrepreneur standpoint, I think over the next three to five years at Hitech and others, as we go into these shows, there's going to be a lot of cool vendors and cool products and cool solutions enter the market that we haven't seen over the last 10 years, let's say. I'm looking forward to it as much as everybody else is. Right. So, Michael Cohen: well, it's interesting. Jim, because, you know, Positive guy, commercial guy, that's who you are. So you're positively looking forward to it. And we all know, and there's no criticism here. It's just a human [00:21:00] reality. Many people have trepidation of what's happening in the next five years. You know, and from our perspective and working with folks like you and others in the industry and so on and clients, you know, cause we have an AI for hospitality practice. Like it's, we're brought in for vendors or brought in for brands, et cetera. and why we're having impact, frankly, is because it's the navigation and the prioritization is two, is the first two things. And the third thing is it's everyone. Take a breath. like actually being able to be a third party expert expert and be able to walk into a, a, a court, a, boardroom, or a, or a, a virtual meeting with senior executives of a partner firm or a VC or whatever it is, hotel brand, of course, travel brand, and kind of being able to, in a politely, non patronizing way, say, let's all take a breath. This is a massive paradigm shift. Jim Rowe: Yeah. Michael Cohen: So when people say two ways to Adam's question, I mean, Jim, some people are saying, eh, [00:22:00] overkill. It's like, to me, it sounds like the metaverse or something, you know, and they, okay. Everyone can have their opinion, and that's important, we have to respect that but you know, it's clear, it's obvious, maybe, to most, that this is, you know, PCs, the internet, mobile, AI. Four massive paradigm shifts over the last 50 years. Jim Rowe: Yeah. Michael Cohen: The entrepreneurs that we're talking about now in travel and hospitality and the mice industry or any other industry, the ability for this conversation to even happen, how it's happening so efficiently from a, from a cost perspective and a value perspective, the technology we're using, you know, the ability to start a business and in three to five years have something that's really substantial with a global presence that didn't happen 20 years ago. Just didn't. it was so difficult. So AI for all of us and our client base, commercial base, uh, management base, investor [00:23:00] base, you know, I think it's interesting for us people on our side of this together is we need to make sure that we highlight the potential without minimizing the, hmm, what's the word, the damage because there is going to be some damage. And specifically for folks in our industry on the hospitality innovation side, to use something like AI, which is a wide term, to produce tools, to enhance tools or expand tools and systems and technology to ensure that our client base and the investors who invest into these companies, that they maximize the opportunity of what's next. To me, to people like us, maximizing the opportunity of what's next. That's all of our jobs as stewards in some ways to make sure that that happens. And, you know, this whole thing of that AI is going to focus people on. and their bandwidth on the most profitable, high margin [00:24:00] sides of whatever business they're in. That is the core principle of AI, in my opinion, and I believe yours too, Jim and Adam. And our collective industry's job is to make sure that we're we're providing opportunities and laneways to actually successfully execute on that. Jim Rowe: Agreed. Michael Cohen: That's my speech. Jim Rowe: And it was a good one, Michael. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, I have, I have another sort of speech and then it'll get into a question, but Michael mentioned a word that I think is very important for people to remember and that is being stewards. And it hearkens back to something that I don't personally remember in my lifetime, but to give you perspective, when hotels, when the modern hotel industry first really got, got onboarded in the 1920s, a hundred years ago, we used to have elevator operators. Somebody to push the buttons on the elevator. And then eventually that gave way as people got familiar with how to push the buttons on their own, but it's not like one day the [00:25:00] GM said, Oh, you're an elevator operator, you're gone. No, they didn't do that. They gave them another job at the hotel doing something else. And they were stewarding those people to keep them in the family. And now it behooves hospitality technology companies to steward their clients, the hotels, with new AI products and using those, like how to best to use something like a copilot feature. So my question therein, with that as a premise, is how do you see Hospitality technology companies properly stewarding their clients on a one to one basis to start onboarding these new next generation AI tools. Jim Rowe: You want to take that first, Michael, or do you want me to take Michael Cohen: No, Jim, you're just the talking head. You're the one that actually does the work. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Yeah. Jim Rowe: like I said, there's multiple ways this could go right and I, think we're, we're just at the very start of this. Um, [00:26:00] and, but I, I'm hopeful like you are, like I said, that this is just gonna, the initial releases of, of solutions like this are gonna be create more efficiency and enhancement in a guest journey or in a guest experience within the hotel. and that's why I would, I would look for hotels and encourage hotels and hoteliers to look at solutions that are doing that. Because ultimately, that's what everybody cares about, right? How do I have an improved experience during my stay, within a hotel? and, I think the, the companies that are out there, the, you know, that are bringing new technology via AI or, whatever it is, that's going to help enhance that experience are the ones that are going to be the, most successful. where it goes from there, I think, you know what I mean? I think, like I said, we're all curious, and we'll, we'll, we'll find out here in the next three, five years, but we could do this show again in three years, five years. I mean, we might all go. Didn't see that coming, right? Maybe something's gone a different way, right? you know, and we might have virtual people [00:27:00] checking us in or something. Who knows, right? Michael Cohen: Well, actually, Jim, we will be having that because we're, we've already worked with clients and companies and they're mostly startups who have holographic Jim Rowe: And it's exciting, but it's, that's, that's the scarier side of AI to me, right? You know what I mean? And so, but, but I get it can be, it can also create efficiencies as well. Because some I've seen where there are people there, but they're just able to scale themselves You know, And you guys, Mike, you've probably seen more of this than what, what we do on, on our, certainly from a Jonas perspective, because you're working with multiple different entrepreneurs, right? And so I guess, Mike, I shouldn't ask a question on your podcast, but what excites you guys the most from what you've been seeing? Michael Cohen: actually that's awesome. And Jim, you're going to be invited back cause you're so far, you're hitting all the right check boxes. Adam, let's, let's, let's keep it tight because we only have a, you know, a certain amount of time here. for me personally, uh, and as a professional, I guess, industry, anything that's, oils the machine. that [00:28:00] creates seamlessness that takes some of the sandpaper out of either travel or guest experience back of the house stuff as well anything that oils the machine so for example some people it's controversial but i don't see it as that much controversy myself is the facial recognition technology that's being deployed in many many choke points in the travel experience, hotel hospitality experience. So, to me, that is, and that, and there's a lot of technologies that incorporate, you know, facial recognition and integration with passport systems and, or loyalty systems at hotels, or, I mean, you know, the cameras, the IOT, the, what the, you know, the power of the wifi, the, it's, as you know, it's a honeycomb of technology. A lot of it is old school technology, old school, last 10 years, that is creating the platform for the new school. Right. So for me, one of the ones is, is facial uh, recognition and the ability to [00:29:00] streamline and smooth the, you know, the travel transaction. If you know what I'm getting at. Adam, what are your thoughts? Adam Mogelonsky: Well, to draw on your point about oiling the machine, I'd say that that is the core of everything, because the more you can increase team productivity and liberate your team's time, because we all know that labor is the ceiling here, in terms of not availability. So, what I then would go for is, what are you oiling towards? So you oil the machine and where is, where is that engine moving towards? What's the big why for a hotel? And my big why, my personal big why is wellness. And I bring, I bring that up because so much of wellness is not just going off and having a spa with people there and going to a mineral bath, but how you can use the data that's within your systems to then personalize and improve [00:30:00] somebody's health while traveling. Everyone's traveling for whatever reason, they're visiting a client, they're getting away with the family, etc. But there's so many little, tiny ways That you could increase and improve somebody's stay from a well being or physical wellness point of view if you just had a little bit more time from your housekeepers and front desk people or just a little bit more personalization to know that they were lactose intolerant or they didn't drink alcohol and would really prefer a great coffee experience down in the cafe. So, but all that depends on the oiling of the machine and And also having that, that North Star of knowing that you want to improve somebody's health while traveling. Michael Cohen: and to that point, Adam, it's interesting, and we're gonna wrap up this point here overall, but we're working with a, a, a new client in the sleep technology space. I mean, Jim. You know, 15 years ago, if you and I were having a scotch somewhere at a conference, we'd be talking about sleep [00:31:00] technology for hospitality, but now I just said it to you, and you're going, I imagine, huh, That's a value added technology implementation, because obviously in the travel and hotel, uh, hospitality experience, Sleep quality, providing a better sleep quality than your competitors, whatever, is a differentiator, right? So the company's called Waver Labs. They're great. But six months, even six months ago, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have contemplated that as being part of our conversation. So that's some answers to your questions. Great interviewer, Jim. You're doing well. Jim Rowe: I flipped it on you guys. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, I guess it's a, yeah, that's a part of the job of a sales and marketing person is, you know, you're, you're trying to, you know, uh, find out what our, our big issue is, our top priority to sell to us. Right. Jim Rowe: Whoever asks the last question controls the conversation, right? Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Michael Cohen: I'm writing that one down. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Michael Cohen: All right, Adam. Adam Mogelonsky: Jim, we're going to move into our fourth and final question, which [00:32:00] is, what are the key things innovative leaders and entrepreneurs should prioritize and focus on to gain traction for their business? Jim Rowe: So I feel like I'm kind of hitting on a theme here. But again, for me, my recommendations would be to carve out your niche. there's nothing better from a sales perspective. The favorite lead any salesperson's ever going to receive is a warm referral, you know, from a happy client that's passed along, Hey, you've got to speak to these people, right? I've been using them now for six months, 12 months, whatever it is. You need to speak to these people and again for us, from my experience, that still starts of understanding your target audience, understanding your product, understanding where you play strong. Don't try and spread yourself too thin too soon and really have that niche and focus on that market. And then grow from there. And like I said, really satisfy that base extremely well to where they are your champions and they're singing from the rooftops for you and they're [00:33:00] doing your marketing for you in a sense. Right. And because that's, like I said, as a salesperson, my favorite lead ever is that warm referral. Michael Cohen: Yeah, And, it's um, it's an age old theme. It comes up many times in these podcast sessions with the Game of Momentum podcast. Business is about people, and our industry, travel and hospitality and the mice industry globally, is even more about people. Because literally it's about people on the consumer side, the passenger side, the patron side, and then it's definitely about people in regards to the staff, operations, and the engineering commercial side. I'm talking about other brands or the entities. And then of course, many of us and many of us in the industry are facilitators between those two constituencies in many ways, right? The technology and innovation that we're all involved in really is about facilitating that dialogue. and, and keeping it efficient, keeping it profitable, keeping it, innovative, [00:34:00] effective, all those things, but it's really a dialogue. so, so I like how you kind of wrapped up your whole theme, because the theme is about keeping it focused, Being smart about growth, focusing on the customer or partner or the end user, which are things that we can all say and we know to say them, but to actually do them or execute upon them is actually where the superstars to the middling executives, that's the delineation is who can actually take these principles. There are, or their team or their board of directors or the senior or the C suite actually successfully build businesses for themselves and also, of course, for their clients by living and executing and being consistent on those principles. So yeah, I, I, love, I love that answer And I love the, the reality of, you know, tough industry, but business about people. Jim Rowe: Yeah, people buy from people they like and people they trust and I don't think no matter what [00:35:00] innovation comes out, what AI comes out, that's not going away, right? That's not changing. and yeah, and I tell our teams all the time, just because somebody's in the market for a new solution doesn't mean to say we should participate, right? Because if we're not a fit, we would rather walk away rather than, like we talked about earlier, trying to force your agenda ahead of theirs just to get a win. That ultimately ends up taking your business or your operation backwards because you now can't effectively satisfy that, that client that you just try to onboard. and it's, it does take a certain discipline to do that. But people that get that Right. tend, I we, we see tend to build longevity and, and keep that everything moving towards the right? Adam Mogelonsky: I think that's a perfect way to finish off talking about the discipline required to find and focus on your niche. And we could spend a whole two hours just. Drilling down to specifics within that and getting into some examples, but Jim, [00:36:00] I can't thank you enough for, that, those words of wisdom and for coming onto the show. Jim Rowe: No, thanks for having me, Adam. Thank you, Michael. Michael Cohen: Yeah, and I just want to say also thank you for being a corporate partner of our VIP event in Charlotte at the stadium on the Tuesday evening. We really appreciate it and we look forward to a lot of success at Hitech for you in general and for us overall. Jim Rowe: Absolutely, yeah, we're excited about that event as well, and look forward to meeting you guys in person. \ yeah, and sharing some more battle scars with each other, right? So Michael Cohen: Great. Thanks, Jim. Jim Rowe: gents. Adam Mogelonsky: Thanks, Jim.