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Automation Nation: Adopting Mobile Robotic Fleets · Speaking of Supply Chain

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You're listening to Speaking of Supply Chain, a meboch podcast. This is a
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show for logistics professionals looking to learn more about the latest innovations in supply chain.
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Each episode will feature a conversation on topics such as mitigating supply chain disruption
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and reducing risk, current automation trends, sustainability initiatives, and more. Let's
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dive right in. Hello, and welcome to Speaking of Supply Chain, where
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we explore trends, current events, and innovations impacting the logistics and supply chain
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industries. I'm your host, Ellen Wood. I am pleased to be joined
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by Victor Splitgerber today from Vakou Robotics, and we have a really great conversation
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today about this robotics control and management software that is available. Victor, what
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does it do? Does it just completely control the robots? Does it manage
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them? It looked like a little bit of both. It's essentially a new
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category, right, because something completely new. Clementing robots is a huge topic,
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right And I mean in a few years from now, any manual forklift
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will be automated, so it just becomes another feature to a forklift. So
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we will have lots and lots of mobile robots. We offer operations software to
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help companies make the transition. And companies meaning the end user, but also
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everyone in the supply chain so to say, meaning the integrators and the OEMs
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as well, so we connect the ecosystem if you like. All right,
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robotics are becoming very, very very popular recently in supply chain, even more
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so since the pandemic. I know they were on the market previously, but
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they were struggling to gain popularity, and in the past few years we've seen
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a massive uptick in the number of companies that are looking to implement robotics.
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And so two of the most popular solutions out there are the mrs and AGVs.
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So tell us a little bit about those two particular robots and what VAKU
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does, because it's you don't have the robots, correct, you're just the
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software exactly. We just the software. So really starting at the beginning,
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if you like. AGVs are automated guided vehicles. So they're pretty much like
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fixed machines, pretty rigid. They're there since over fifty years. Automotive uses
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them since forever. Almost structure and you can almost imagine it like being a
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train on rails. So they really follow a fixed path. It also takes
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a bit to install them, but once you install them, there's robusts so
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you know, like you can easily operate them for twenty years, and you
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know like they will exactly follow the same line after twenty years, like on
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day one. So that's great and it really helped us. But then there's
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this new technology aims autonomous mobile robots. It's basically inspired by autonomous vehicles,
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so the technology is fairly similar, the similar types of sensors that are used,
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like lighters, laser ranging sensors if you like, so to measure distances,
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and also the set of algorithms is fairly similar. And the difference is
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then to the train on rails if you like that that mobile robots are more
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like cars on a street, so they can freely navigate along certain lines or
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like paths if you like, so they can drive around obstacles and all these
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kind of behaviors. And typically if we speak about aim rs, we think
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about applications and warehouses or manufacturing, but of course there's also the broader scope
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of mobile robots that is developing very rapidly and also merging with some other technologies.
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So what we have seen is, for example, applications in restaurants where
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you have those robots that serve a few meal, right, I guess that
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that's fairly similar. Yes, I saw one the other day that was so
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neat. I really only saw one like together with my kids, and yeah,
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they were like unexpectedly unimpressed. I have to say that they were not
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impressed. And I would say that's awesome, you know, like that's what
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I'm doing, and they were like, yeah, no, don't touch the
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thing. Maybe they were also a bit of scared, but yeah, So
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we will see many more of those, right, because lack of labor is
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hitting every sector and we certainly need so these robotic workforces in every place.
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So cleaning machines is another category, right, everyone like nose vacuum cleaner at
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homes, but for industrial scale there of course a bit bigger. So you
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can imagine airports and so on, yard management, so you know, like
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those trucks that handle containers are automated at the moment, airports, so like,
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so pushback manuverse will be done by mobile robots and new categories evolving,
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like humanoid robots. So that's something that is super hot at the moment,
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so like basically robotize humans if you like, but on on on a much
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lower scale just to don't scare anyone away. So they're they're still pretty pretty
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simple what they can do. But um, looks like the stopping is ticking
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off and then to close it so to say VF mobile robots, which is
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like today really about autonomous forklifts and yeah, autonomous applications basically to move stuff
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around, so like share elves, items, pellets can be moved around,
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and we develop software the help companies to identify, to operate, and to
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service these kind of mobile robots. Okay, so when a company is deciding
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to implement a robotics solution, so they're they're about ready to purchase a fleet
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of mrs or agbs. One of the two is that when Vaku Robotics comes
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in to say, oh, you're purchasing robots, we can help you manage
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those or is it usually after the fact when they've got this, you know,
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heard of robots wandering around their facility and they're like, ah, I
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need help, you know, help us manage these. When do you typically
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come into into the facility and offer the solution. So it's really along the
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entire journey what we call it, and the first step for many is lots
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of bots dot com or you see lots of pots, and we have a
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it's a huge comparison of websites that we were building up over four hundred different
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robots that you can filter for use cases. You have service companies that help
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you to implement and design solutions with components, because a robot doesn't come alone,
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right, you need charger, sensors and all sorts of periphery that comes
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along. So and of course a lot of resources that help you to understand
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and learn about the domains. So I guess that's a good first step.
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With some companies, we also do consulting to help them with the first steps,
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and that's typically like really first scan which applications are viable, because yeah,
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certain conditions need to be met, like very repetitive movements. And most
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robots are still fairly fairly expensive. So when I said in the beginning,
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at some point every robot will be automated and autonomy is just another feature to
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a folklift, we are not there yet, so it's still fairly expensive.
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So tens of thousand of euro more than just the unautomated machine just to give
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an idea, So you have to do a fairly good calculation. Yeah,
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so that's the first step. So lots of what dot com is a good
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first step, maybe we help you with doing that and like like then later
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on some approach us when they want to add another robot to their fleets.
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So they have vendor A in their operations and already working fine, and then
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they want to add a second vendor, second use case. Then in that
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case they going to contact us to say, hey, you know, like
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how can we arrange those mixed fleets? And then we have a service and
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maintenance tool that is mostly for oms and integrators that want to have a software
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solution to handle their maintenance and service tasks, to say, to automate many
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of those tasks and managing partners and users in a proper way. Because the
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end autonomous robot is not a folklift. It has different needs, it has
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a lot of sends us. It's it's a complicated machine after all that needs
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proper handling and proper education of the people that operate source robots on a daily
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basis. Well, and you bring up a good point when companies who have
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already put in a robotics solution, a mobile robotic solution, and then their
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facility expands, their business expands, they need more. And that's where Vaku
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can really provide some additional value is they don't have to go back to the
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original vendor. They don't have to get the same type of robot. They
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don't have to clear out their fleet and start over from scratch. Your solution,
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your software helps control fleets of mixed sizes, mixed types of robots,
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you know, large fleets, smaller fleets, and it's scalable, so it
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allows them to be able to manage their entire fleet, regardless of how it
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was put together, whether it was all a single purchase or built over time.
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Am I understanding that correctly? Absolutely? Just one point. So,
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like most companies don't have robots at all today. So at a conference and
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I ask, they were maybe one or two hundred people, and I ask,
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you know, like, who is already operating mobile robots? And we're
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like ten or fifteen people. So that's about my feeling, right, So
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maybe ten or fifteen percent of the companies to operate robots, and of that
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one only a small fraction has mixed fleets. So are at a level whereas
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they have a first system and want to add another one. What most companies
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looking at today is to get it right from the beginning, so to say,
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and to buy this optionality. You can imagine it like an insurance to
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be able to add other brands in the future, So like buying up fality
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and having this insurance to add other use cases. So it's it's it's not
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necessarily that you want to change your brand, so to say, but it's
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oftentimes that, yeah, one vendor only has a certain pot for you to
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pick you right, and then you have like another use case that you want
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to cover. So you imagine you have maybe palette movement and you want to
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add the cleaning robot or a picking solution or at some point human a robot,
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right, and then you meet to make sure that those systems talk to
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each other. And that's kind of what many companies looking know for right They
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don't want to limit themselves in the future. They want that flexibility. So
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that is a I like the way you call it an insurance policy to make
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sure that everything is still possible in the future that they are limited and boxed
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into one particular solution. So I know, you said there aren't many companies
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out there that are currently using robots. It's still an expensive venture. It's
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it's a big investment to deploy a mobile robotic solution. And even though you
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said earlier that there are a lot of companies, these robots have been around
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for for years and there are companies that have been using robotic solutions, especially
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in the automotive industry, for for a long time. What kind of like
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success stories do you have from your solutions? Do you have a customer who
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is able to accomplish something really fantastic through using this control system? I mean,
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I'm imagining that, you know, like you were just mentioning when you
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when you get another type of robot in you've you've got the MRS and you
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get a cleaning robot and there's just a traffic jam or a you know,
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an accident in the warehouse where the two robots crashed into each other. You
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know, what what types of benefits are you able to provide for your clients
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with this solution that controls all of them? Yeah, so like multiple additions
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made to what it said. So one like those robots don't crash into each
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other, and what they rather do is say, block each other because they
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have those safety sensors and they don't crash, they just can't find a way
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around each other. So so that's what typically happens. Just to take some
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years away, right, So those robots are much safer than any human folklift
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driver. Just make that fear, right, So it's it's a huge safety
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factor. That's that's actually a huge buying reason for many to to buy those
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types of equipments, even in low cost countries. So, and maybe that's
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the second point. The robberts prices came down drastically over the last years.
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So if you looked into the prices of an application like five years ago,
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you can imagine that you're now like a diffraction of the cost maybe thirty percent.
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So what we see really a price decrease. If you pick one application
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like folklifts autonomous forklifts, that every year the price drops around twenty two thirty
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percent, So it's really a massive, massive cost reduction over time. That's
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significant. Yeah, and that has to do with the software that gets better
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and also like just economy of scale, right, more more applications cheaper sends
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those cheaper batteries. So all of this come together and to make those technologies
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much more accessible so that it becomes attractive for logistics. It wasn't attractive for
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logistics twenty years ago, probably even ten years ago, it wasn't attractive.
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But now you have those huge, huge companies like gig Plus, like locals
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that operate thousands of robots. Like gig plus has over thirty thousand robots deployed.
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Amazon Robotics has over half a million of robots deployed. To just to
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give some numbers, it's really there, right, It's it's nothing that is
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like fine the future. It's to be there and today, and how did
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we help companies? So again like we have different and user groups, we
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have the OEMs, we connected sometimes hundreds of robots, and that it's about
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automating the maintenance task and really like predictive maintenance that you exchange parts like batteries
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or motors before really process interruptions happens. And and also to to optimize the
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whole maintenance that is done, to to do it at the exact right time
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and not too early, not too late, and certainly not on a fixed
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schedule like a be half a year or so. So that's a huge part
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and of course, you know, like again like most companies never applied to
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mobile robot. You bring the machine and you want to make sure that all
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the sensors are cleaned at the right schedule and that are there, they are
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probably maintained because otherwise the robots just stopped. Because it's it's that simple,
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right, It's I have my vacuum cleaning robot, yeah at home, right,
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and it also asked me to clean this sensor, you know, like
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take a brush, because otherwise it's not driving. It just stops. And
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most mobile robots don't have such a system. And that's what we essentially provide
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here, right. It's it's a fairly similar actually, and of course again
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a brand independent, so many integrators support many brands to offer or to cover
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different use cases. So that's that's one. So like there we have in
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certainly in goods to person we have a huge installed base. And then secondly
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in terms of end customers. One of our flagship customers is TTI, which
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is a listed company. They have many billions of turnover per year and they
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operate in Germany, for example, a fleet of twenty robots like one vendor
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is Mere and Mobile Industrial Robots, which is in MR fifteen of those and
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then they have another four AGVs. So that's also interesting where you have the
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combination of the both both technologies actually, and we let those two systems collaborate.
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And before that wasn't simply possible. They couldn't operate both systems. They
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were limited in expanding their automation. They also face the same challenge that they
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need to grow their business without growing their workforce because they know people and yeah,
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the only results that they have is robots and other automations, certainly,
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but in that particular application, and we were really enabling that use case.
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And are they are sup happy customers? That's great. So what is changing
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in the industry about the way that robots are being deployed. You you obviously
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see these deployments taking place. You've tracked the progress over the years. You
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say, they're much more affordable now the prices are dropping, but there's still
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a low adoption rate in terms of how many companies are utilizing robotic solutions mobile
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robotic solutions. Let's let's make sure we're clear on that. Because robots are
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happening everywhere. But if it's slow to adopt but gaining traction, what's changing
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that people are more open to these robotic solutions. Is it because your software
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is enabling them to to have more options in the future once they make that
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decision. Is it more about what the robots are capable of doing? Is
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it just a matter of price. What's driving the changes in the market.
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It's definitely the lack of labor, right, It's it's a huge concern and
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just simply no workers to operate the folkliff already pretty straightforward, right, yes,
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but still there needs to be a business case. So also, the
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prices came down a lot, So I just thought, right on average ree
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trick like thirty percent and year over year, which is like over a couple
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of years. That's massive. So like just to make it more concrete,
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maybe for manual forklift, so to say that you wanted to automate that was
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like maybe seven eight years ago, that was it like two hundred thousand dollars
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and now prices are around seventeen thousand dollar or even lower. Like we even
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see solutions that go as low as twenty thousand dollars for automated forklift, and
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that is like just massive, right, It's like the earlier or these new
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entrants are in the market, the more RISKU also taking as a user so
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to say, right, because like they're not so established than the older systems
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that are more expensive, So there's a price to it sor to say so
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to answer a question, right, it's like the demand. It's the price
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for the machines. And then like also the performance of the systems. I
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told you about the software that is very similar to mobile cars or to autonomous
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cars, and that makes them applicable for logistics contexts. So like a warehouse
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is fairly unstructured and it's a lot of movement, and it's not like manufacturing
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right in many regards because also like the people that you see robots that operate
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alongside those robots are less trained oftentimes, and so there are many different demands
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that are now met and that allows these technologies to be applied and with our
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software really more help these journey to or to help companies to be successful in
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this journey. And that starts with services like this solution tool, lots of
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boats dot com that goes on with analytics, so like really understanding how to
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improve a process, how to improve your operations, not so much on the
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robot side, but really on the operations side and buying this optionality, so
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you also have a lot of flexibility. You don't need to install a big
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system with hundreds of vehicles or so, but you can start small oftentimes even
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with rental solutions. So that makes the entrance into the space fairly easy.
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And then again like this maintenance is it is also a small topic, but
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then it's a huge topic because yeah, like everything needs to come come together
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that those projects are successful, and these companies want to get it right in
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the beginning because like once they they have a backlash so to say, right
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and they implement a project that didn't properly work, you know, like you
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have a lot of negative sentiment and therefore, you know, like we really
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help companies to make those first steps successful and later on of course also the
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scaling successful. But since most companies just getting started, it's about those first
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steps. By the way, like we have also some bigger clients out of
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the three pl domain that have huge fleets. Though like we also see kind
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of a division in the market between I would say these early adopters that started
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a few years ago, like really investing into the space, forming a strategy,
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deploying different systems, from different vendors and really are like two three steps
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ahead of of the competition. And then oftentimes the smaller three pls are a
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bit behind, so they just now start to implement their first systems. The
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others are already like five years or so there, and so we also see
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kind of this division in the market, and especially with the more advanced players.
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We offer based on all our tooling comparison of different systems to compare total
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cost of ownerships, since we track the performance of the different systems goods the
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person so like they are oftentimes hundreds of robots in one installation, and you
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want to know, like, what's the performance of the system, what does
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it cost me to operate in terms of how much service do I need to
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put in in terms of work, but all in terms of spare parts,
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And that together gives me the total cost of ownership of a system for given
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the performance, and that goes back feeds back into the planning, so to
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say. And that's very very attractive for those big three pls that have fleets
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around the world, and and and you want to make sure you know,
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like you compare them properly, you have best practices that you can share and
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therefore you need like independent analytics really going down deep into the robot system,
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like down to the battery performance, down to the motor uptime, and and
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and like really on a detailed level. Right Like of course you have power
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BI those tools, but they stay on a on a fairly high level,
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and we really go down into the machine room if you want. That's significant
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that that level of information can be available to your clients with this, with
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this software to really understand that that cost of ownership. I imagine that that's
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a huge impact not only for those large three pels, but for any client
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who's who's considering this. You mentioned something else a moment ago, and you
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were you were talking about implementations that go poorly or that don't roll out according
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to plan, and how that can cause negative feelings. And I did have
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that question because a lot of times robotics solutions can be polarizing in terms of,
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you know, whether the employees are are happy about it. I know
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we were talking about labor being an issue, and there has been at least
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in the in the US, the labor strikes out on the West Coast because
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employees were concerned about robotics solutions that was one of the reasons. Not the
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entire situation, but it's a factor in a lot of companies where they're they're
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wanting to roll out more automated solutions in order to stabilize when the labor market
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is volatile, and so that it can be a difficult thing even for the
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employees that remain or will be retained, that they have to work with a
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robot now and that can cause a lot of negative feelings. So do you
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work with your clients as they're considering these implementations on that change management to really
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get that adoption buy in from the beginning or is that left to an outside
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consultant. Is that left to the company themselves to manage their own team and
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all of that, or do you come in and support that as well.
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Yeah, absolutely so we help companies being successful in this journey and the cultural
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change, so to say, is just part of it. And you mention
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as those labor strikes, maybe their solutions to that one. Right, getting
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people early on involved like training them or give them skilling them up, so
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to say, that's one it can be as easy as or giving names to
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the robots, right, that already helps to somehow have the feeling our colleagues
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and not you know, like some sort of abstract beings, so to say,
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and sometimes even important what kind of names because animal names, fictional names
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are more digestible or more supportive than human names. For example, it's super
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interesting. So there's a whole art to that one. Treating like a pet,
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yeah, exactly, like it's like a donkey also, right, or
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like like your horse, and then it becomes much easier to understand that,
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you know, like it doesn't take your job, but it helps you.
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But the other part that is super interesting is that more generally spoken robotics will
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change how companies operate, and especially logistics because like logistics is a domain where
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companies deploy tens of thousands of people, right, so that's their business like
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managing people, if you like, right, And there's a lot of fluctuations.
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Right. Oftentimes people don't stay very long in a company because they're fairly
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lower level skill levels that are needed. And that changes with robotics. Right.
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You need to train your workforce, you need to keep your workforce,
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You need to really make a different job in how you handle your operations.
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Before it was just handling many many people, right, and now certainly you
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need to handle technology and you have a labor force that is much better skilled.
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So this is also a company change, right how do you skill your
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labor and do you really change your culture in that way that it's more about
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getting the best out of the robots, where we support with ourselves instead of
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you're not like trying to optimize processes so that the people can work more efficiently.
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So there's also a lot of change happening there, and it's a lot
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about it. How do I connect those systems into my r P landscape,
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how do I make an integration layer and and so on, so so it's
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it's it's a lot about that one. And so that's a shift, right,
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We are just at the beginning again, right, and but that is
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really a massive change. So like this build up of it talent of robotic
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operators, that is something that needs to be taken into account and certainly where
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we also help companies to form a strategy around awesome. So I have one
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last question, and that is what is the most the biggest or the most
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common objection that you run into when trying to promote this offering, to promote
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robotics, use to promote your software. When you're trying to sell this,
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what's the objection that you hear more staffen or the biggest one and how do
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you overcome it? So it is always an issue, right, So,
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like we have a very safe software and that is really tested and certified,
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but having a VPND connection down to the robot into the like through these firewalls
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to say, and in the Wi Fi network of the of the client of
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the warehouse is a topic, I have to say. So we pull data
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really on a second basis, we have huge algorithms and run in the clouds
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that crunch data and machine learning algorithms to condense the knowledge out of you know,
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like this data streams of tens of thousands of data points per minute.
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So like these discussions around VPND connection is probably the part that takes is the
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longest in such projects. We of course try to help to facilitate those discussions,
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but sometimes our last resort is really saying okay, okay. In all
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we do provide you an on premise solution because you know, like sometimes with
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automotive clients for example, they are really a hardline with with like putting data
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in the clouds. It's just no, it's Okay, so data security is
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the concern. Yeah, so there's this topic around to a US cloud software
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or not and how much rights to have so and and and it's right,
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right, Like, we absolutely promote data security. It's a it's a huge,
30:30
huge topic. It's absolutely essential, right And many companies you know,
30:36
like shut down for weeks and months because they had a security incident. So
30:41
it's it's absolutely essential, right. But sometimes you know, like maybe it's
30:48
on the wrong corner, so to say where those concerns are. Maybe you
30:52
know, like we have a very safe surftware, so to say, like
30:56
I imagine it to be a bit easier because really are concerned with security,
31:02
and like with ninety percent of the clients it's totally fine, but of course
31:07
you're not like there those not the kategrees it says, mah, you want
31:11
to have it on site. That's fantastic that you have that flexibility to offer
31:15
that to your clients. So when they have that concern, you've you've got
31:19
a solution. Obviously, you'll you'll try and convince them and help them to
31:25
understand how how safe it is. But if it is a hard line in
31:29
the sand that you're able to work with them anyway. So any last remarks,
31:33
anything else that you want to tell our listeners before we close out for
31:36
today. Yeah, so I can strongly encourage you if you never tip your
31:41
toe into the waters of mobile robots and visit lots of bots dot com.
31:45
It's a great resource, great overview on the market. Right really, what's
31:51
there? I have also my own podcast called Vaku Update. So there are
31:56
a few English episodes also there on on the Chinese use ecosystem for example.
32:01
That was a huge success. And it's of course you're not like a superdown
32:06
and to the topic. But anyone who's interested, and of course you're not
32:09
like reach out to me on LinkedIn, just text me if you have any
32:13
interesting project or any potential to improve your robot operations. And yeah, looking
32:20
forward to hear from you, of course. And I did notice that if
32:22
you, if our listeners go to Voco Robotics, that you are the little
32:27
chatbot that pops up. It's not you. I'm twenty four seven available for
32:34
questions with the chat bot. Yeah, I managed to replicate myself and not
32:42
yet absolutely, So you can all of course check out vacu minus robotics dot
32:46
com, where you find an overview of everything I told you, and yeah,
32:52
it's a great conversation, Allen. Thank you so much Victor for joining
32:57
me today and telling us a little bit more about this software solution that helps
33:00
to manage mobile robotics fleets. Again to our listeners, if you would like
33:06
to learn more about Vaku Robotics Lots of bots dot com. We've got Vaku
33:10
Robotics. You can find Victor on LinkedIn. We'll have those links down in
33:15
our description. And that brings us to the end of our episode today.
33:19
Thank you Victor so much for joining us. I'm just really excited about some
33:23
of these innovations in the industry and seeing what's possible. I love your innovative
33:30
style and an entrepreneurial spirit, and I know that there's going to be some
33:34
great things in the future coming from your company. For our listeners, if
33:37
you have a suggestion or a topic for our podcast, please let me know
33:42
at podcast at mebak dot com. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like,
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follow us subscribe in your podcast app. But as always, thank you
33:52
for listening to Speaking of supply Chain. We'll tune in next time. Bye
33:57
bye. Mebok Consulting is one of the largest and most globally recognized supply chain
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