Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Behold Grace |a conversation with Alia Joy

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Behold Grace |a conversation with Alia Joy · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_04: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_04: It means so much to have you choose to take our conversation along with you today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide simple plans for life's most creative endeavors.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: The culture around us lulls us to complacency, half awake to our purpose, and more often than not, it seems as if everyone around us celebrates mediocrity.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_04: But we believe there is more to your story.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_04: Awaken your heart with extraordinary tales of the ordinary.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_04: Find encouragement as you discover your creative purpose, and be empowered to create your unique masterpiece in life, family, and community.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_04: Before I introduce this week's guest, I wanted to make sure you knew about our 100th episode.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, I can't believe it's coming up at the end of May.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: When I got started on this podcast journey a few years ago, I had no idea there were gonna be so many amazing conversations to have.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I'd love to celebrate two ways.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: One, it would mean so much to hear from you, to know what guests you would love to hear from during the next hundred episodes, and also to have us reach 100 reviews on iTunes.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's really simple to leave a five-star rating and then leave a comment with your favorite episode.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: These ratings help others know we'd love to have them join the conversation.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: So thanks.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: Today's conversation with Aaliyah Joy is incredibly fitting to my personal circumstances and these weeks of Lynn.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_04: I have devoured her new book, Glorious Weakness, not just for the sake of conversation, but because I felt her message would answer a lot of the conversations I've been having of late.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_04: Aaliyah asked the question, what if weakness is a spiritual gift?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man, right?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: And what if our lack leads us to God's goodness?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: She leads this conversation with great vulnerability and invites us to embrace our freedom to say, I believe.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: Help my unbelief.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: I don't love the color, I'm partial to the cover.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: And but I the glorious weakness, I mean, come on.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_04: But it seems to be the conversations that I'm having with my friends lately.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: The just the the reality of the pain and the struggle that we're facing on this side of heaven, and what do we do with it?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_04: And is it spiritual attack?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, where is God in it and what is his design through it?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: And um so it's a beautiful, I I love your writing.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's a beautiful piece.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm truly still I'm in the middle of it and just like I said, I'm devouring it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I have a stack of books, so I'm like, that's that's like it's it must be good if this is what I'm going to.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_04: But um but for you, how did you because as I'm reading some of the stories, some of them are similar to experiences that I've had in my childhood, and one in particular, you share some abuse that happened in your life.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: I can barely talk about it, but you chose to wrote write about it, and you did it in a really artful way.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_04: But how did you overcome that hurdle and and what led you to decide to share that part of your struggle?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it didn't happen all at once.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was probably 17, maybe 17 before I ever told anybody.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and so I was about 17 and I told my mom for the first time um about it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the first time I'd ever spoken anything about it out out loud.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and even though I could say the words, you know, this is what happened, and even though logically I knew it's not my fault, you like, you know, you have that perspective at the same time, the emotions are still all there, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: The um the pain of it and the shame of it, and the the guilt that you feel, and the confusion, it's all still, you know, under there.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So even as you're saying it and saying, like, I've I've moved past this or this is what happened, it's in the past, it still feels very present and very part of.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the the walk towards healing in that specific area has been, and I'm 40 now, so it has been years and years and years, and there have been layers um, you know, going to counseling um was part of part of that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had EMDR therapy for post-traumatic stress disorder because I was having it was interfering with my life after I got married, especially.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I thought I was over it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I talked about it, it's done.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm real, I mean kind of put it all down.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got married and it started coming back out, you know, all of these these feelings and these things, and I was just really, really struggling.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so um went to counseling, and then I thought, you know, okay, I've dealt with it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I'm good.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was probably in my that was in my late 20s.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so, you know, then fast forward a few years, and there's just layers and layers and layers of things that were um coming out.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I started writing, um, I had been talking about it more openly, like in women's groups or things like that, where we were close or friends, like I felt like, well, that's just part of my story.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got to the place where I could talk about it, um, you know, sort of removed.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I don't, I still don't think I had that full perspective of of actually what happened and um didn't have language really to wrap around the the feelings that I um still carried about that.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I started writing publicly, um it's such a huge part of my story and and kind of the way that that things went and a lot of the um really detrimental lies that I believed for so many years about God and about myself, can't you know, spurred?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't rooted in that, right?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it I just there was no way to really tell my story without that that part of it.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I had a friend, Tanya Marlowe, she writes um about suffering a lot.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: She had a blog, I was brand new to writing, and I um I don't know how we connected, but um she asked me if I wanted to guest post on her blog.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And for some reason in my mind, it felt safer to write this very intimate post about what happened on her blog.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously there's the link social media, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: But having it hosted there somehow felt more removed to me than having it on my blog.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Almost anonymous, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you know, I don't know what it was, but like psychologically, I just felt freer.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I wrote a post that that talked about that, talked about some issues that I was having with my body and how I felt, and um and I posted it there, and that was I think the first step in sort of realizing how writing um is this cathartic experience for me.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I process so much um better through writing than I do through most everything.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like my thoughts and my emotions all come together, and a lot of times I'll spend time writing and then I'll step back and read it and go, oh, like that's what I was feeling.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I almost don't know until it's written.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so um as I started writing more and more um publicly, I realized this is the story that's unfolding.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is the, you know, this, these are the parts that help the rest make sense.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um interesting.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think, you know, I've written about um, I mean, I refer casually to other things that happened when I was a teenager.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those things I don't write about as much.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I'm still not there.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so I think having teenagers yourself plays into that a little bit because they're still almost processing through that in a way, in a new way.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's especially as like a new mom, like looking at my, you know, it happened when I was so young.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So looking at my kids when they were four and five, I just like it's you know, astounding to me because I think sometimes we look back at our life and we think we should have known more or like known that I don't know, you know.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: I know, right?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: Ridiculousness.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I put that on myself, but then I look at my, you know, when my kids were four and five, and I thought, they just need to be protected.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no, you know what I mean?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're like they're there's nothing that would ever be on them, you know, no matter what age they are.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: But there's no guilt on them or guilt to place or blame at all.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and there shouldn't be for anybody and any age that goes through that.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: But in my mind, you know, to see that was so jarring to me to realize I've I've lived with these preposterous lies for like my whole life, you know.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I don't, you know, I think that there's power in storytelling.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it was important for me to tell that part of my story.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: I also don't think that we necessarily owe our stories to, you know, there are stories that I'll probably never write about um publicly.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that and that's okay, you know.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um it doesn't mean that I'm being duplicitous or I'm hiding things or I'm not, but but I there are parts of our story, both good and bad, that are just for us.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I believe in um, you know, there people are always saying to me, especially like with my book and with other things, you know, you write so so vulnerably vulnerably about certain subjects and things.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the reality is there's a lot of stuff that I don't write.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's wisdom in knowing, you know, I I don't write about my kids that much, um, like specifics about them very much, because I feel like those are their stories that they're gonna tell in perspectives at some point.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't write about um people in my life, like in ministry situations, things like that, because that's just a personal preference not to not to do that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't want to use people as you know, blog post fodder, like oh, this is so important.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there are there are boundaries that I that I you know, there's a lot of my life that's very private.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in terms of you know mental illness and weakness, and that's that's my story.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel comfortable with the parts that I share to the extent that I share.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I also don't feel like I owe everybody every story, you know.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes I'll refer to things, you know, kind of vaguely because I'm just not ready to write about all of it, you know.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I think there's there's that balance of of knowing like there are some areas that are not fully healed.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: There might be some areas that aren't going to be fully healed this side of eternity.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: God's in the process of healing those things.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and sometimes I think in this, like the the downside is in this air air of like authenticity and vulnerability where that's a huge thing.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think those things are important.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: There can be the downside to it, this feeling like we have to expose everything um to be authentic.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: We have to sp you know, right about everything.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And some things, you know, are just they're just between me and God.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're just working through this, and it's not for everybody else yet.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe whatever.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they're sacred, and we have to determine what's meant to be.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and like you even referred to the whole idea of counseling.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, uh uh just kind of this similar situation where I'm turning 40 this year.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so 20 years ago, I received a lot of great counseling and great help for some different situations in my life, and at another point got some good counsel and you know, like 30s, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: Motherhood that that season.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: And then, but now there's another layer, and I hate to call it an onion, but it is another layer of the onion that that I'm either at ready for, or the Lord has just ordained this time and this space to deal with that.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think as our story is healing, we also at different times can reveal different parts of our stories as we go along.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: But you're right, there's just some things that the side of heaven are just meant to stay sacred in between us and the Lord.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: And that's okay.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I and it's there is that like tough thing because in this, like you said, the era of vulnerability and rawness, it's just this buzzword that I think gets used and abused, and we have to we have to take it before the Lord so reverently of what it is that he intends for us to share with others.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm kind of curious to know what Aneagram number you are.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know four wing five?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, not a shock.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the four-est book ever.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is like I don't belong, and I have like a fatal blog.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: But I love it because I was reading it and I'm like, oh man, I bet she's a four.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: I happen to be happening to be an Aneagram coach.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm it's it's not that obvious, maybe to you know, the average Enneagram person, but it's also beautiful, and some of my very best friends are fours.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I am a three with a four-wing, and so I just I you know love leaning on that side and cleaning, and I and you all just have this ability to tap into emotion in a way that I'm like, show me how you do that.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: But it's I'm like, save me from my emotions.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: Isn't that the truth?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, I think it's you're using your gift beautifully, you're using your God-given personality in a wonderful way.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: Though um, I'd love it if you would share a little bit because this is not something we've talked about here, but I have several friends who, one in fact, who's releasing a book this month who's who's gotten more open over the years about her depression and anxiety, how that relates to her motherhood.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: I have a lot of mamas listening, and I bet a lot more who struggle with this than they let on.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: Just give me a little insight and maybe some wisdom for someone listening who's dealing with depression and anxiety and how that plays into your role of the motherhood and what you kind of done to I don't want to say cope, but maybe to find healing and be able to to be fully present as much as possible with your family.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I was diagnosed with um postpartum depression after my first born, and he he's 18 now.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the first time that they anybody'd ever put a label on um what I was feeling and experiencing.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: So you really struggled with it before, but I probably I showed signs now.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, looking back, I showed pretty distinct signs of having bipolar disorder in my mid to late teens.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I could probably chart, oh, and then when I did this, I was you know, hypomanic.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: When I did this, I was super like I mean, it's pretty obvious in retrospect.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: Right, always in retrospect.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, we had never flagged it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And my my periods of being hypomanic were quite a bit longer than they are now.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was hypomanic, you know, then I just thought this is the best me because I'm capable and I'm busy and I've got all this stuff and I've got all these ideas and I can do I'm super competent and I can do everything.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes those those um parts of when I was hypomanic didn't seem to have a huge downside.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was a lot of reckless behavior and things that I look back now and go, oh, that's why I didn't, you know, that's why I wasn't processing like this is probably a bad idea, and I'll just take on all this stuff or do all this stuff.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: But um I did not know that at the time.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the first time I'd ever been diagnosed with depression and it was very, very severe was after my um my firstborn.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um my doctor put me on Zoloft.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was on it for um I don't know, six to nine months, and then I tapered off, you know, with with his, and I thought, okay, I'm I'm good.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the not knowing that I had bipolar, the the um the antidepressant kind of shot me into a hypomanic phase.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was in a hypomanic phase for probably almost a year and a half, two years.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just was you know the busiest.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just did everything and took everything on, and um, and so uh again it happened, you know, it happened uh my my next um pregnancy.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I had a miscarriage in between.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had my daughter.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now my kids are all four years apart.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was a miscarriage between my oldest and my second, and then between the other two.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I each time I had by uh not by I had depression.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I had classified myself, okay.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have, you know, I deal with this, but there was a part of me that could kind of separate it from me and be like, well, this is just this is hormones, it's just we justify, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't wanna, I don't want to be like one of those people, you know, that has depression.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I remember sitting in the cart in Walmart trying to scratch off the label of the Zolof because I thought if anybody sees it, I don't want anybody to think that I'm on an antidepressant, you know.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then the shame we take on, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just just all of the stigma and all of the, you know, I can't fix myself, it must be something.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in a not in a healthy um church church situation necessarily.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of uh extra baggage that was there in terms of what it looks like to have depression in a church that believes that you just need to have more faith or that somehow you can sit in your life, or you know, these other things.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was really a big struggle.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, and then I went through my first depression um that wasn't caused by pregnancy, and it was after a hypomanic phase, and I it was it it just got more and more severe and so and wouldn't lift up.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so I had cycled through a couple depressions, and now I have language for it and knew what it was, but I there was a part of me that resisted because I was like, well, I'm not this isn't postpartum, this is just like out of nowhere.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I would try to figure out like, well, what is it that's causing it?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it must be some life thing, or um, and there were times when life was super hard.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, well, of course I'm depressed, like everything's super stressful, everything's hard, it's just the season.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, kids, and there's we're you know, have our own business and we're doing construction and there's like no work, and my dad is set, you know, there were so many things.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, of course, anybody would feel you know depressed if they were dealing with all this stuff.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was sort of this r rationalization to it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then when I was in my early 30s, I think I was maybe 30, 30 something, I went through a depression for about four months, and I could not get, I mean, I just couldn't get out of it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was so, I was, I mean, even my um affect had changed.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't speak as clearly.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: I my brain was fuzzy, I was exhausted all the time, I was sad all the time, I felt nothing all the time, like it was just just very, very, very bad.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was when I went in to see a counselor, and that was, you know, when she was taking my full history and all of that stuff.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, I think, you know, there's a possibility you have a bipolar disorder.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, I was like, no, no, I don't have that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because in my head, I remember really distinctly I saw a like a law and order SVU episode, like I don't know, probably a decade ago.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the the girl that was on there was like bipolar, and she had all of these.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to me, I'm like, that's a crazy person.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a crazy person.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then you know a stigma once you say that.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: She was violent and she was no, and I just thought I'm not like like a violent criminal, you know, I'm not like that um a danger to everybody.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, the truth of you know, mental illness is that we're more often danger to ourselves than anybody else.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the way that it was portrayed, I just thought that doesn't, that's not me.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then as she started talking through, like, this is what these things look like, and um, I did the you know, the inventory that you have to have certain criteria in the DSM to be diagnosed with it, and I had like all of them.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so then we're talking through my past, and I'm like, all of a sudden I'm realizing, oh the light bulbs are going off.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is why all of these things make sense in my teens, and this is why we had all these ups and downs here, because this is when I was, you know, hypomanic, and this is when I was depressed, and you know, just it made sense.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and by then I was blogging.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I had started my blog.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I started my blog thinking it was gonna be something completely different.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I went through that depression, and um so I started writing about depression, and I only called it depression because I felt like by that time there was less stigma surrounding depression overall.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean it's still there, but I felt like people were finally talking.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: People can understand being sad, like there's a there's a, you know, a people relate to that in a way.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I thought, okay, you know, even if they haven't experienced it, there's there's more grace for that.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I wrote about that because I was more comfortable with it.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I didn't use the word bipolar um still on online.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I probably wrote for maybe a good year or so um just about depression.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I was having a talk with a friend of mine who knew that I wrote about depression, and she was talking about her son, who's a teenager who has bipolar disorder, and how um they don't tell anybody because they don't want the other kids at youth group to not play with them, they don't want parents to like not want them.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Him around their kids, you know, because he can be a little bit unstable sometimes.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so she was like, we don't want, we don't want that put on him, you know, at this age, which I as a mom can completely, you know, completely understand.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, if you've been a friend of the podcast for a little while, you know we love to talk Enneagram around here.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: But you might still have lots of questions about the Enneagram, and you might want to know the best way to begin your journey.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you're in luck because I have several simple ways to get you started.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: First, I have a wholehearted Enneagram quick start guide.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: You can download it and it gives you a rundown of my favorite resources and the step-by-step discovery process.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: Then I'd love to answer your Enneagram questions on the podcast or on the socials so you can submit your questions in just under a minute on our Enneagram question form.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: And now, best of all, I'm a certified Enneagram coach, and I have a few limited spaces this spring with me, your wholehearted living coach.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: With years of life experience in addition to an understanding of the Enneagram, together we can discover your type and the best plan of growth for your spirit, mind, and body.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_04: Let's move past the messy middle.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: Get free from the shame-based ending, and instead reboot your story by better understanding your season and uncover the fruit of your best life.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: Now, not everyone is right for this type of coaching, but if you want to find out if you'd be a good fit and get your 30-minute consult, you can get your name on the wait list.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_04: The links are in the show notes, and you can find out more at simply wholehearted.com.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: She was talking about her son who's a teenager who has bipolar disorder and how um they don't tell anybody because they don't want the other kids at youth group to not play with them.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want parents to like not him around their kids, you know, because he can be a little bit unstable sometimes.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so she was like, We don't want we don't want that put on him, you know, at this age, which I as a mom can completely, you know, completely understand.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I also thought he doesn't have the ability to share about it because he's in such a fragile age and place and space with peer.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's hard being a teenager already, you know.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then dealing with these very serious mental health issues is you know is really hard.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I thought, okay, he doesn't have the ability to share, but um, somebody needs to share because otherwise everybody thinks that bipolar is that SVU episode, you know, or they're not gonna understand what it looks like to be a person that actually deals with this in real life.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um I started writing about bipolar disorder.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the truth of it is because I was diagnosed so late, my oldest got the most uh unstable parts of me.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: So long periods of me being like the um sort of type A, very legalistic mom, super strict, homeschooling mom that was like, and then we're gonna learn Latin, and then we're gonna, I mean, I was just all the thing, I mean, bought every, you know, we're gonna do it all.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I, you know, was like first time obedience, like, you know, if I say something, you obey, you know, very little phrase child.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's so experimented on it.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Poor child as an oldest.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I know.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So my I have a 10-year-old and then he's 18, you know, so he will see the 10-year-old and he'll be like, I would have never let me do that when I was then like, you're right, I wouldn't have.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not the same person.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, by this one, I'm a little tired.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_04: I learned some things.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, I'm big on grace.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just big on grace.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Real big on grace.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I do think that because he had a lot more of the unstable parts of me, there there are some things that I think were just really rough for him as a as a kid.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't always know what to expect, which is really hard for anybody, you know, to not know which mom you're gonna get.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Are you gonna get the mom that's um and especially when I was hypomanic because I would get frustrated and angry and I was like a yeller, and um because everything had to be this way, and why aren't they keeping up with me?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And why don't they, you know, like my brain was just moving way too fast.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so very impatient, like I could fly into being just extremely impatient, you know.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so he got a lot of that just very hard on him, constantly like, you know, on him.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um by the time I had my daughter, I had I had a level of brokenness in my life that I had experienced and weakness in my life that made me more open to grace and more open to like to the true gospel and what that meant.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so that dynamically changed my parenting style for the last two.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he just grew up with a more more unstable mom.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_04: What does it look like to try to repair or um you know mend maybe those moments and time that because we can't rewind history, unfortunately.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: We know, and and I think that's really important to never shame who we were, regardless if it was as an adult and it was our fault.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like we know now what we know now, and we don't know we didn't know what we know now.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's really important to not shame that, but at the same time, there's this process of figuring out, okay, now that I know what do I do now, and what did that look like for you?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, part of it was just being really open about like your mom needs grace, and this is what it looks like to be somebody who um is broken, and this is what it looks like to be somebody who um needs Jesus.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been um pretty honest about that with them, you know, for at least since I've since I've realized what I know, you know, what I know now.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think that there's a lot, I mean, we have really open communication.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think because of the severity of mental illness, um, we talk about a lot of things that probably most families don't talk about.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we talk about a lot of mental health issues and things.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's you know, just genetic component to bipolar disorder.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: So as my kids are entering their teens, you know, when when it's most likely to present, right?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are things that, you know, I watch for with their moods and their things, and they have some of their own struggles.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my oldest two do.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so we just we're very, very open and we talk about things.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when I screw up, I say sorry, and I say, This is what I did.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and I think there's um, I mean, everybody needs to be able to do that.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be able to repent and ask for forgiveness, yeah.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Be able to admit the parts that we're weak.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't pretend to be anything different.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like they know that their mom is imperfect, yeah.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they also know that I love them more than anything in the world, and I you know, I'm doing my best.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is that part of me sometimes as a mom that I look at, you know, my kids are very kind and they're very compassionate.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And there are times when I think they have learned grace and learned how to be that way by loving me because it hasn't always been easy.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there have been times when I've been super, super sick and I can't get out of bed, and I'm struggling, and you know, I'm just gone.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like there, I'm present, but I'm not really there.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's hard on a kid.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: If I could change it, you know, I would change it.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but that isn't what has happened.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm seeking balance and wellness with meds and with you know my psychiatrist and trying to stay as healthy as I can and being mindful of of those things.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there is an aspect that is out of my control.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um there are some things that I, you know, I I'm one of those moms that doesn't make a lot of promises anymore because I used to say, oh yeah, we'll do this on, you know, we'll go to this or do this, and then I would have a you know, uh depression where I couldn't, I just couldn't function.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, I have chronic illness too, so it that compounds it.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: So there would be times when I just had every intention of going, but I'm super sick.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that instability too of like, is mom always gonna let us down is heartbreaking, you know.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there have had to be adjustments in how we live our life in like this is a possibility that we, you know, and I will make every time to go, or I will try to see if somebody else can come.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, sometimes it can't be me, sometimes it has to be a community that steps in.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I will try to find somebody that can take you to that party.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Call one of my friends, or you know, and and depending on a I mean that that's really what it is, it's depending on a body, which is how we're supposed to function as Christians.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And some of that is really embarrassing to navigate that feeling of like, I can't do it all, so I have to ask for help.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it can feel very, very vulnerable and it can feel embarrassing.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, part of the reason that I wrote the book was like we need to reframe what it looks like to be weak and to be connected and to admit like this, I can't do it all on my own.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um I, you know, I'm finite, my capacity's small, I'm sick a lot, and I need people to help.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and when I'm well, I'll help other people, you know.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: So some of parenting has been has been that just like extreme honesty.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, extreme honesty about all of the things and talking it through.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, they can tell me, hey, I feel really hurt by this.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I miss you.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I and you know, we can we can navigate through difficult feelings.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we're a pretty tight family.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, considering, you know, I have two teenagers, like we spend a lot of time together and we're, you know, talk about a lot of things, and um, I make myself as available as I possibly can, you know.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's a constant dialogue, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's just a it's a constant dialogue as a parent.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, you touched on something.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_04: I've been working through a motherless study.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's something that I've just been writing as I go, and it's with a group of women at my church, and we've been talking about our own experiences with our moms, but then also our motherhood and touching on the fact that we may have experienced an absence either in our mother's physical absence, emotional, or spiritual in all the different stages of our life, and really the crux of it comes down not only for our moms and looking at their lives, but for our own lives is that it we are actually signing up to fail when we sign up to be a mother, yeah, and that is God's invitation to us to remind us and to remind our children through us that the only perfect one, the only one who won't fail us is the Lord.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_04: And that is it, end of story, and it's so hard.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_04: And as an Enneagram 3, in particular, failure.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, kill me now.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_04: But it's devastating because we go through life thinking I'm not gonna do the same thing my mom did to me or didn't do to me, or I'm gonna do it exactly how she did, I'm not gonna fail, whatever it is, how our viewpoint.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: But the reality is we're gonna do it imperfectly, and so it's our opportunity to dialogue, give grace to our history, give grace to our moms, and then give grace to ourselves and extend it towards our kids and show them what it looks like to give grace and actually write about that exactly in my last chapter of my book.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: No way giving birth to my son and and just being terrified that I all of a sudden realize realizing I'm absolutely 100% destined to fail you.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just hit me so hard.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had complicated things with my dad because I felt in my teen years, I felt like he kind of abandoned me because my brother needed so much help and he was so focused on my brother.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, I was the little girl that adored my dad.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so during my teen years, when he was busy and wasn't as attentive, I, you know, tons of like um, yeah, there was tons of tension between him and I resented him, and we had a complicated relationship.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I talk about that in the end of the book, like this sort of this, these three generations of people realizing how how we love and fail each other and how cycles repeat and how there, but right um it's so true, like there is an aspect I think that of of humility and realizing um just how uh human we are.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're human, and uh with that humanity comes the ability to wreck each other unintentionally, yes, you know completely unintentionally, right?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Those things are opportunities to see God work in the midst of those things.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Even even with my dad, you know, the redemption and our relationship, you know, as I was caring for him because he he passed away.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um it gave me an ability to see the way that that God works through all of those things.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and a better understanding of how I mother my kids.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_04: What would you say was one of the most profound nature of God's character that came to you in some of the healing process of all of this?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think one of the most profound things for me was just that I I'm I'm beloved.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I I to have the understanding that I could be in bed for eight weeks, barely able to get up or shower or do anything, that I would that the the literal, you know, existence that I have is staring at a wall.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I would sometimes lay there, I couldn't sleep, and my brain was just blank, and I would be staring at this wall in my dark room and just thinking, not even necessarily being suicidal, just thinking I just don't want to even like exist, but I'm too tired to not exist.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm too tired to come up with a way to end it, so I'm just gonna lay here and stare at the wall.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um being in that dark and that empty of a place, and the realization that God adores me right there in my bed, not doing anything, not contributing to the kingdom, not doing missions work, not you know, being being not reading scripture or having a quiet time or even being a good parent, you know, or a good like I could be there in my lowest, lowest point, and Jesus adores me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that identity as beloved um really transformed the way that I see grace for myself, but then went on to transform the way that I see grace for everybody else.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because if God could love me the way that He loves me in that sort of state, then what does that say about the way that God asks me to love the people around me?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, I think once we've experienced grace like that, you you have a deeper well to offer to other people.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I used to be extremely judgmental.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I remember taking um a spiritual gifts test in my 20s, and I didn't even register like mercy, if it could have been negative numbers, it probably would have been negative seven.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was like very black and white.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, if people make the choices they make in their life, then that's the I mean, it was so it just was like justice, justice, mercy was not a thing.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um probably a lot of us would raise our hands to that in our 20s.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: I knew it.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna tell the truth in love, but really that just meant like insult you a lot and bash you with the head of the Bible.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so, you know, because I thought I had it all together.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was more together in my 20s because I was hypometic and doing all the things and I was performing, and I just was so empty inside and didn't even realize that I didn't have an understanding of the gospel.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that transformation later, you know, I mean I'm sure if I took it again, I would register as having mercy.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but I, you know, got it took it really took being broken and realizing my own dependence and need and lack and um sin, all of it, you know, to realize that that God um is a good God and loves us in the midst of all of that.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: And he does.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_04: Now, if we could just for the last couple minutes that we have, because we and your conversation just fit so perfectly within our Lint season.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's continuing to be this theme of you know, just struggle, but also what does struggle look like in light of the cross?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: Lint is this time where we do without and we experience lack, and you talk about the you know, lack and poverty of spirit and poverty in general, even experiences in poverty.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: But how about for you as you think of Lent or this Lent in particular?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: What is something that you've done in preparing your heart for Easter, your home with your kids, something there that has readied you for the celebration?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's funny because I didn't we didn't grow up with Lent.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know anything about Lent until um I didn't either.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, gosh, maybe like three years ago when I was like, what are these people putting ashes on their forehead?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and I was like, what is this about?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's totally, totally what I grew up thinking is like for you know, other people, and I never knew anything about the liturgical calendar.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but for the la maybe longer, maybe five years.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe for the last five years, I've kind of known um and dug into it more.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that those uh seasons of preparation and intentional focus are so meaningful.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um every year it's been different things.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I don't have like one, oh, I'm gonna fast this thing or I'm gonna do that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I think um this year a lot of it has been just like in a mindfulness of um of the areas where God is meeting meeting that uh desperation, sort of, you know, like um keeping track of and writing down the parts because I think it's so easy to forget.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I I feel like I'm kind of attentive anyway, but I think in seasons like this where I knew I was gonna be busy, I'm in the middle of book launch, you know, a million moving parts, and I mean it's just so so busy.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew that if I'm doing I'm gonna be doing book launch during Lent, and I knew how easy it would be to um to think I have to do all of these things and I have to um yeah, check all the boxes, right?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Check all the boxes and perform and all, you know, and I've had just an incredible peace.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that I would be more freaked out, you know, because you hear about book launch and I'm very physically tired because it's been a lot, I bet.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even mentally tired, you know, by the end of the night, I'm like my brain is mushed.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but um spiritually and emotionally, I feel just a complete peace.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when my book went out, I was like, I did the thing, you know, I did the thing that I felt like I was supposed to do.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I had my launch team read it, and you know, the the input from them and the things that they got out of the book from reading it, I felt like I remember thinking, I was thinking I was talking to my mom, I said, if this is the the farthest impact that it has is this like hundred people in my book launch team, that it it would be worth it, you know, like because I was seeing the way that God was using the words, and I thought, anything else after this is a bonus.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, this is like it's worth it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, it was worth it because their you know, their reactions and the things that God was doing in their lives through this book.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some to be more compassionate, some to be open to a different view of the poor, some just that felt met and loved by God, like all of the some that just felt seen, like, oh, you know, I've I've been through this.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't think anybody else had felt this.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Those kind of things, like I just thought, oh, like this is all this has all been worth it.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: God knows what he's doing.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so going into the book launch, there's I've just had a a piece that it will do what it's gonna do.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'll I'll be a good steward and I'll do my part, but the results are completely not in my hands, you know.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I'm I'm that's just the Lord.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I would usually be freaking out probably.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's been it's been chill in that way.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think um for me during this Lent season, I really wanted to focus on the way that God is meeting and nourishing my hunger.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the past I've fasted from different things, and I think there have been seasons when I really needed to fast.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: This year I didn't feel like fasting was something that God was calling me to do in that way.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like it was something that I needed to add back in.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, really, really being extremely intentional about, you know, I picture like in this desert season where it's busy and dry, and you know, what is God nourishing?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: What is he putting back into my life?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I like that.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's and being mindful of that also means being mindful of all the areas that I'm lacking that he needed to show up for.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um it makes me feel very small in like the best sort of way.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_04: That's good.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, turning towards Easter, you got a lot to celebrate, and I hope that you're celebrating well this.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Book launch and you know, being faithful, like you said, being faithful to the call of God to get out the word.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: For you guys, what's Easter going to look like?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a big meal with family?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: Is it about church?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've done so many different things.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we've done like a big you know church thing, and it's just everybody who's come.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we've done that at my husband's parents' house.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my brother and sister-in-law used to live here, so sometimes we do a big family thing, and then you know, whoever was single or you know wanted to come and join us when we get home, right?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know that we have plans yet this year.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think we'll probably tag along with other people.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're usually always with somebody eating something.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: And that might be really nice and perfect for you, like you said.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: So you're not stressing, so you're not taking on that you know, hurry and performance mode, which it sounds like surrendering a lot of that in this season in the midst of a book launch, which is so beautiful.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have no three wing at all.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like during book launch, I'm like, I wish I had a little three wing.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's a none.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_04: This is when you hope you have a really good three friend in your life.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not there.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, ah, you know.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's all good.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's all good.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: And the the last funny thing that we're enjoying ask asking during this lint season is that when you go to fill the plastic eggs, what candy do you make sure you get so you can have a few?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like Reese's pieces and um let's see, what else do I like?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: A lifesaver?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: I like the lifesaver's rolls, you know.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Books with the rolls in them.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was like totally do.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would make those last for like six months.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: We like never got candy and stuff, so I was like, Yes, I'm gonna keep this forever.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: No peeps.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do marshmallow y fluff things.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Those are so scary to me.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, my kids love them, and I'm like, gross, you did not get that from me.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my kids don't, so I'm like, I don't have to get those, but um yeah.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_04: Reese's are for sure some of the most favorite.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_04: I'm there too.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, okay, I'll just take a little handful as I fill these up.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, this is wonderful.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: Your conversation has been a blessing, and your book is ministering to my spirit, and I know so many others.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I pray that you will just be able to continue to celebrate the joy of the success of being obedient to the Lord and be able to celebrate the season of Easter and the hope that we have, and I feel the hope through your book, and it's just beautiful, really encouraging.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: Suffering will visit us all, but so will God's glorious hope.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_04: And we can bear witness to this goodness which carries us through it all.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_04: We may hear the first part of Job 13, 15.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_04: Though he slay me, I will hope in him.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: But let's not forget the freedom the second half of the verse gives us as we journey through pain.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yet I will argue my case to his face.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_04: We have such freedom in a relationship with Christ, and he's inviting us to use it even through the pain.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: Aliyah's literate prose and her unflinchingly raw stories just might give you the words which will allow you the cleansing cry you need and the truth of God's word which will heal.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'd love to have you tune in next week for our last conversation during this Lent season, which is encouraging each of us as we reflect, remember, and celebrate rebirth.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_04: Let's continue to fight others as we continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply whole-hearted life.