Latest / Breaking The Meta / Ex-CIA Officer: What's Really Happening In The Iran War?
Transcript
- Adam Dunigan VA08: The Pentagon, your government, is lying to you about this war. They've done so several times. Just the other day they published new numbers, right? That indicates we have 18 dead and 600 wounded. That 600 came out of nowhere for a lot of people because they weren't reporting anything close to that. And the reason that they're doing this now is because the little joke that I made at the top of this interview, they are reclassifying the new hostilities with Iran as a new conflict so they don't have to seek congressional approval for continued hostilities. They are just flouting the rules. They're using legalese to continue illegal action. And they are classifying all the the ha the casualties as a part of that illegal action as a new category for veterans' benefits and reporting. And it's it's Mike Winson: Mm. Adam Dunigan VA08: insane. It's just this is so fundamentally against who we're supposed to be as a country, as a people, and as a government. And to see our foreign policy and our military policy subordinated to just just lunatics at this point, it's really, really depressing. Mike Winson: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Breaking the Meta. Today we have a very special guest, friend of the channel, former Marine, former CIA case officer, and all around just really cool dude. His name is Adam Donnegan. He's running for Virginia's 8th district in Congress. But that is not only what we're going to talk about today. What we're talking about today, much more in depth, is the absolute shit show that is the Iran War. Hey Adam, how are you doing, buddy? Adam Dunigan VA08: Good bike. How you doing, brother? Mike Winson: man, you know, it's never a dull moment in in my line of work, just like it's probably never a dull moment for you right now. Adam Dunigan VA08: I would very much like a few dull moments actually. Mike Winson: I would love some. I would love some. I always laugh when people say that I've got, you know, Trump derangement syndrome. And I'm like, dude, the day I don't have to say that man's word man's name ever, I will be the happiest man on the planet. Adam Dunigan VA08: These these nerd these nerds that are out online in like right wing spaces that are like, You're gonna the Trump was the best thing that ever happened to the left. You guys are gonna miss him 'cause all you do is complain. Like, no, we won't. We really won't. We have we have other things that we need to get to, so let's stop Mike Winson: No, no, we literally won't. We literally won't. so obviously we're gonna we're gonna go deep into Iran, but I do wanna point out because it's very important that as as someone who's running for the eighth district in Virginia, at the time of this recording, you are one week away from your primary. so just Adam Dunigan VA08: Yes. Mike Winson: as I mean, we already interviewed you once for that, but I just wanna just give you a chance to just, you know. Let anyone know who may not know just a tiny bit about you, just so if they want to check you out, especially if they're in Virginia, they can. Adam Dunigan VA08: Sure. Yeah, so I am my name is Adam Dunnegan. I'm running for Virginia's eighth district congressional seat. I am primary a sitting Democrat, which is not usually done in this area, but I have no self-preservation instinct. So it's it's it's kind of David and Goliath. There's a few other challengers, but it's really boiled down to me in Congressman Don Byer. dude is good. But he's about seventy-six years old, he's got hundreds of Mike Winson: Mm. Adam Dunigan VA08: millions of dollars in the bank, and The job right now is to evolve the Democratic Party. And this is a safe blue district. So this should be one of the laboratories of democratic thought. That's what I'm trying to do. So if you if anybody wants to check me out, we're like semi-famous on Instagram now, which is wild. and then the website is Adam4Number4Congress.com. Mike Winson: I saw something interesting about that. I saw that you posted that the incumbent actually said out loud that if you're not gonna vote for me, vote for for you, vote for Adam. Adam Dunigan VA08: Yep. Yeah, that was that was two days ago and that blew my little mind. So it was it was me it was me Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: and the incumbent. We were speaking at a at an indivisible meeting, a local chapter, Mike Winson: okay. Adam Dunigan VA08: and so he went up there and he gave his tough speech and at the very end, he's no everybody's everybody get out there, make sure you go vote and if you're not voting for me, make sure you vote for Adam. And my mouth was a gate. Like I did not know how to react to that. so yeah. Mike Winson: Heck yeah. Which which is probably how politics should work. That is very different. Like the fact that so for those of you listening, actually it was gosh, how long was it ago now? A month and a month and a a week. I got to meet Adam and Elizabeth Dempsey Beggs in person, and and Tim was was newski. Swinsky. Adam Dunigan VA08: Suwinsky, Suwinsky on that one. Mike Winson: I can never say his name right. Yeah, Amanda Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, yeah. Amand Amanda Nelson was there, yeah, yeah. Mike Winson: Nelson was there who I got to interview too. That was amazing. But I got to meet the three amigos who that's a like way call you three, which is awesome. But what I love about you guys is is how much you care. And and to the point that I know how exhausted all three of you are almost at all moments, but you were always willing to sit down and talk to to anybody. And so I'm You know, I know I know Elizabeth and Tim are are up against each other, but that's a win win situation if either of them win. So it was really Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, yeah. Mike Winson: cool to meet you guys and it was really cool to meet just everyone, your whole team. You got a great team bar around you. Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, that was also that was also the day that we had Randy Blythe in town from from Lamb of God. So Randy Blythe, Rolling Stone contributor, long time. He's very politically active. He took an interest and he was over the shoulder with the campaign for a few days. And he actually just a couple days ago submitted an article about the campaign to Rolling Stone magazine. So that might be a thing that happens before the before the election comes too. I really, I really hope it is. but either either way, like I'm a huge metal fan and just like getting to meet my hero was pretty amazing. Yeah. Mike Winson: Yeah. As you can see with all the guitars behind you. all Adam Dunigan VA08: yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I can't play well, but you know, I do have them. Mike Winson: right. Let's get into the let's get into the meat. why why we brought you here. the Iran War, we're in month, I don't know, what, four, five, six, what we are now. Adam Dunigan VA08: technically we're actually in the first two weeks because per Mike Winson: right. Adam Dunigan VA08: the shenanigans that Trump is trying to play with the war powers authorization, he is classifying this as a new conflict, you know. This was a totally separate war with Iran because the last one we solved. We solved that. That was done. Mike Winson: Right. Solved that. Adam Dunigan VA08: This is new. So what y you know, it makes sense that you think this is a five, six month conflict. It's not. It's actually only two weeks old. Mike Winson: Yeah, yeah. Well, no Adam Dunigan VA08: Lunatics. Mike Winson: one told anyone over there, obviously, because it it's definitely still been going. But since since the last time we talked about Iran, you know, at least a few different things have happened. The biggest is the El Bab Mendeb Strait has been closed by the Houthis, and they have hit some of the largest refineries and and hubs of oil in Saudi Arabia, not to mention taking out I think three oil depots. So it's it's it's really picked up to a level that is frightening. Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, yeah. Mike Winson: so what there's so much that I want to talk about when it comes to Iran. Obviously, we're dealing with a lot of affordability here. We're dealing with a lot. What what are you hearing when it comes to our current state? Because there is a lot going on. There is a lot going around. There's talk of the reason we're not bombing right now is because we have a munitions shortage. Is that like what what are you hearing that that people Need to hear about. Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, I th so I mentioned before in my intro that we got kind of big on social media. The reason that we got big is because I started doing some analysis of the Iran war. That's how you and I met, Mike. That's so a lot of people know me. So I have been providing analysis on recent events, and right now you have the UN, the American ambassador to the UN out there saying that we're giving, you know, diplomacy a chance. We're given ro talks room to to to happen and To de-escalate the conflict. Separately, people at the Pentagon are saying to the New York Times that the only reason that we're in pause right now is because of our interceptor stocks being depleted at U.S. bases in the Gulf. And what that means in in true military terms is that if if the shooting starts again, then our troops in all those areas are at risk, and we cannot defend them from drone swarms of Shahid drones. You know, our interceptors cost about Two to three million dollars for some of the cheaper ones and much more for the more expensive ones, excuse me. And so when we're trying to intercept Shahid drones from the Iranians, which are essentially like duct tape and and bubblegum on on a bomb, those cost thirty grand. And so we're shooting Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: Lamborghinis at Kia Sorentos and wondering why we're losing the missile math in this conflict. It's really it's really sad too because it doesn't surprise anybody. That the Pentagon is essentially lying to us, or that we are doing subterfuge at the international political level. You know, war is war and conflicts are conflicts, and there's always going to be a game to it. But nobody trusts this government anymore. And especially the Pentagon is headed by Hegsef. The the trust in the American military has bottomed out. And I hate seeing that. And it's going to put American lives at risk over there. Mike Winson: Now what what is what is the from your interaction with people that are in the US military, because I'm sure you still talk to some people, what what are the what are the reactions of a lot of them right now to the current to the current affairs going on, especially the re you know, the reactivation of of hostilities? Adam Dunigan VA08: So there's no strategy here. the the conservatives, MAGA people, they're really they're big fans of saying that this is all 5D chess, you know, like there's a huge grand strategy and you can't see it, and it's because excuse me, the the the president has this very special brain and he sees through all the noise. It's not true. And I can tell you firsthand from conversations I've had with some of my previous colleagues and people in the Gulf, you know, we have several senior diplomatic posts in that region that are still not filled. You it's it's temporary appointees, Charge de Faire, that are that are doing the job of trying to salvage our relationships with our partners and allies in the Gulf generally. That is an untenable system from a diplomatic standpoint. And then what I'm hearing from my friends on the military side is just just abject desperation to to try to salvage some sort of posture in the Middle East, because what's going to happen is If we get over our skis, and I think we already are, but if we get over our skis any worse, then we're going to start conceding parts of relationships to regional allies that we never would have done previously. For example, you're seeing the Trump administration signal that they are maybe okay with helping Saudi Arabia stand up a nuclear program. That's insane. Like Mike Winson: Yeah, yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: we should never never be even be talking about this. We did Decades and decades and decades of counter proliferation work in trying to keep the the genie as much as we can in the bottle with nuclear proliferation. Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: And now we just incentivized the Iranians to pursue their own bomb. The Ayatollah's out there. There was a CIA assessment the other day that came out and said the new Ayatollah, the son of the previous who got killed, he is now more inclined to pursue a nuclear weapon where his father was publicly not. So Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: we've degraded ourselves just in Iran specifically. But if that happens, what you're gonna see is a lot of other smaller states pursuing their own nuclear programs, and then the world gets really fucking scary. Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: I I did some work, so I for people who don't know, I I did go to a small college in the Boston area on my GI Bill, and some of I have a master's certificate from Harvard in nuclear strategy and deterrence theory. Like this is kind of what I know. And you don't need a master's certificate from Harvard in deterrence theory to know that we just screwed up. Our deterrence credibility for generations and the fallout from this and the posture that are is going to be taken by people in the by governments in the Middle East and around the world is fundamentally changed without credible American deterrence. We sacrifice that for nothing. Mike Winson: Do you because there's obviously a lot of discussion? one of the things that I hear a lot is, you know, there's obviously a lot of fear of Iran. They are not, they are not a good government, but we are not a good government right now, I would argue as a whole. Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, right now. Yeah. Sad. Mike Winson: and so obviously there's a lack of trust. There is a fear. Do you There's a lot of people that are sitting here going, you know, okay, so what if they do get a nuclear weapon? What if Iran gets one? What if Saudi Arabia gets one? What if everyone gets one? And I think the reason people sit here and and say that is the idea of mutual destruction. Is there enough is there enough fear of mutual destruction on the part of Iran or any of these Middle Eastern states to prevent? the kind of nuclear catastrophe that so many are worried about. Adam Dunigan VA08: Maybe is the is the basic answer. there is in deterrence theory this this aspect of it where like the more you proliferate these technologies, the less likely people are to use them for fear of retaliation, retribution. Yeah. That only works government to government, and that only works with rational state actors. In Iran, you have a fundamentalist ideology that does not operate by normal real politic math, and that that might be somewhat of kafeb between the the the regime and the hardliners in in the Shia is in Shia Islam. Maybe, maybe. But even then it gets a little squirrely as soon as you have a true believer who is not who is not fundamentally concerned with earthly well being Mike Winson: Mm. Adam Dunigan VA08: of themselves or their population. And in in Iran and other parties in the region, or around the world. It has nothing to do with the Middle East actually. Like as you increase the number of nuclear weapons, you increase the access that people have to them for whatever reason, right? There's there's there there there are plenty of John Brisham novels and and such that are written on this exact topic. So as you stand up a nuclear pro program, whether that's energy or bombs, you also increase the amount of fissile material that's just out in the world. And tracking Mike Winson: Mm-hmm. Adam Dunigan VA08: that and making sure it doesn't fall in the wrong hands becomes exponentially harder the more layers of complexity you put on it. So I can imagine a scenario with a proliferated world where somebody can scrape off enough fissile material or depleted material, make a dirty bomb, carry it over the northern or southern border of the border of the US. And detonate a weapon that is not going to destroy a city but will make it uninhabitable for you know as long as the uranium two thirty-eight's half-life is. It's really, really scary stuff. And this is why there was so much work. You know, the Soviets and us we hated each other in the Cold War. We were getting ready to shoot at each other at any given point, and even we were still trying to reduce the number of nuclear weapons on the board because it's good for humanity. Now, I don't know exactly where the deterrence value starts diminishing as you diminish nuclear stockpiles because there is the nuclear umbrella that has kept the the the Pax Americana together for generations. So there is something to be said for the existence of these weapons as a deterrent against the worst impulses of of human war making. However, right now we have a fucking madman in the White House and we have Our military and our nuclear arsenal governed by people who are fundamentally unequipped to understand the issues with which they're engaging, and they're going to make it worse. Mike Winson: For for the people that see what's going on are are nervous and potentially rightfully so of Iran getting nuclear weapons. Can you go into a little more of the the mentality of why what this current administration is trying to do to prevent them from getting nuclear weapons isn't working compared to what we in the past have done to even globally prevent some of these countries from getting nuclear weapons. Adam Dunigan VA08: Well, I th I think in the same way that a toddler just wants to smash things, this administration's tactic or or strategy for preventing Iran from obtaining a bomb is just destroy the facilities. And you know, and maybe, maybe if we launch more munitions than we launched in World War Two, we might have a shot at taking out one or two of their facilities to a point where they can't be used, to a point where the material is non viable. that is a huge expense and undertaking and it's gonna cost human lives. both for the Iranian civilians that are in that area and for American service members that are going to get shot down, things are going to go wrong. Excuse me. Sorry, my throat's killing me today. Mike Winson: No, you're good. Adam Dunigan VA08: so so there is that option and that seems to be what they're doing. It's dumb and short sighted. What we used to do, what the Obama administration did and what Biden tried to try tried to do was the JCPOA, right? The agreement I'm sorry, give me one second here. I'm little sick, I apologize. Mike Winson: you're good. Adam Dunigan VA08: So what Obama and Ob and Biden tried to do, like the Democrats generally, we have tried to create inspection regimens. So the Iranians can have a nuclear project or a nuclear program for civilian energy, and we have accountability and tracking of all material that goes into or out of that system for proper handling, disposal, and to make sure that it does not go into the hands of bad actors, either in Iran or abroad. Now that we've disconnected from the JCPOA years ago and now that we've actively harmed their country, we have incentivized them more than ever to leak that material to anybody who's willing to pay for it. And there are plenty of people, especially now that we've ruined our image on the world stage, that would be willing to harm the United States and pay the price for that kind of material to launch Mike Winson: Mm. Adam Dunigan VA08: new terrorist attacks, sabotage, what have you. Like we've we've only increased the likelihood of harm to our citizens by launching this war. Whereas under the JCPOA, was it perfect? Absolutely not. But we had a framework to start from and we threw it away again for nothing. Mike Winson: Yeah. One of the arguments that I always comes to my mind when we do it is especially when it comes to people that tend to be more radical, countries that tend to even for peop even pe even the people in Iran that maybe not be as radical as, you know, the the Iranian Republican army or something like that, there's Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah. Mike Winson: there there's a mentality that comes from living in in that situation. you know, when we were bombing Gaza, you know, the fear was that we were turning more of those kids towards Hamas. Are, you know, is there that fear as well from what we're doing that because we're we're just bombing everything, especially now that we're bombing desalinization plants and and and infrastructure that people need to survive, that we are just turning more, which is a war crime. Adam Dunigan VA08: Which is a which is a war crime for the record. Intentionally yeah, yeah, please. Mike Winson: And so are we turning more people are we turning actively turning more people against the United States? Are we making the danger worse by doing what we're trying to do to get rid of the danger? Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, potentially, yes. I mean the Iranian community and and the Iranian population are not a monolith either. You know, there's plenty of Iranian Americans here who had to flee this country because of the oppression of that regime. And they want us to go all the way. And plenty of them would would love to see boots on the ground in a full scale war to to Mike Winson: Mm. Adam Dunigan VA08: take out the Iranian regime. And you know what? Like I've tangled with these guys as as a CIA case officer. I have no love in my heart for the IRGC or the Ayatollahs. Or or the Iranian regime in general. So like, yes, we are probably turning some some otherwise moderate Iranians against us because their families are dying, their kids are dying when we fuck up a targeting package because of AI. Like they are going to suffer the consequences of our mistakes for generations and they will hold us responsible for those mistakes. However, there is an entire population that's being oppressed by the Iranian regime right now that wants out from under it. That are willing to accept the the the hardship and the the the the impact to their lives if it means it gives them a shot at actually being free, which they are not right now. So yeah, I'm I'm pretty doom and gloom because I think the people that we have commanding the American military and the people who got us into this war are fundamentally unserious and unqualified to do it. They are not the people to prosecute this war. However, I'm not going to pretend like there is no justification for trying to improve the lives of Iranians that just want to be free. You know, this is the same regime that was going into hospitals Mike Winson: Right. Adam Dunigan VA08: and slaughtering people just because they protested against their government back in January, February. This is this is not this is not a government that we should lionize just because they're under attack by our government. At the same time, there is the very real fact that we have probably radicalized in Gaza and in Iran, we've probably radicalized another generation. Of people to hate this country and to do everything they can to harm it. And that's it was completely avoidable. Mike Winson: Where is that line in your mind for the Iranian government is not good? But there are civilians in in there. Like the as you said, the Iranian government is not the Iranian people. It's the same thing we say about Israel. It's the same thing we say about Gaza. It's the same thing we say about we could say it about North Korea and China and Russia. Like it's not. It's not everybody. So where is that line for people listening and sitting here struggling with this idea of not wanting to support Iran, but sitting here being angry that we're doing something right now, especially with what's going on in the United States? Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, I I don't know, honestly. I wish I had a better answer for that. It's it's frustrating and it's it's something of a catch twenty two, right? Because the US has demonstrated over the last twenty five, thirty years that we cannot and should not be the world police. at the same time. There are conflicts and there are times where morally if we do nothing, we are compromised. And we used to be a country that acted when there was a moral imperative. You know, there's a statue of Bill Clinton and Pristina Kosovo right now because we used to be a country that stopped genocides. There is in Bosnia, you know, monuments to US and NATO actions during the dissolution of the former Yugoslavia. Like we we used to employ military force and multilateral institutions to protect people, to help people when they needed it. And we lost that. We became the villains on the world stage because we Mike Winson: Mm. Adam Dunigan VA08: put a bunch of toddlers in charge of the biggest, most powerful military in the entire world. We are a country that spends a trillion dollars on the military every year while people can't afford insulin. Two out three families are paying for groceries on credit. Like we we got way over our skis as a result of the post-Cold War world. And I don't know exactly how to get back. And so for people that are angry at what's happening right now, me too, and you should be angry. And I think the best way back from this right now is to change fundamentally the face of the US government, make a logical break between who we've been on the world stage. And who we shall be. And hopefully that new thing, if guys like me get elected and hopefully it's a lot more people to start to turn in the minds of foreign parties, foreign governments, foreign citizens, these people that hate us right now as a result of the actions that we've taken, if we can show contrition and we can show a new face of who we want to be, that is the best shot we have at trying to reclaim some credibility in their eyes. Mike Winson: You posted a video, I feel like it was a few days ago, talking about the amount of people that we have lost and have been injured and and just numbers that we are getting from from this administration involving Iran. do you believe that this administration is actively hiding casualty numbers or at least injury numbers from us? Adam Dunigan VA08: Yep, yep, unequivocally, yes. I I can tell you firsthand, I live so my district, so people don't know, Arlington, Virginia is the home of the Pentagon and the CIA. They physically sit here and I I miss in the military and the CIA, so I got some friends. and I will tell you firsthand from some conversations that I've had, I'll protect their identities, but yes, they absolutely are fudging the numbers every time they publish them, and there are things off book that are just nobody's going to see because The Pentagon right now is not concerned with educating or keeping the American public informed. It's just true. we don't have thousands of dead that they're hiding in in tanker trucks and stuff. There's a bunch of conspiracy bullshit that's out there. I think you can ignore a lot of that conspiracy, but the the crux of those conspiracies and what they're alleging is true. The Pentagon, your government, is lying to you about this war. They've done so several times. Just the other day they published new numbers, right? That indicates we have 18 dead and 600 wounded. That 600 came out of nowhere for a lot of people because they weren't reporting anything close to that. And the reason that they're doing this now is because the little joke that I made at the top of this interview, they are reclassifying the new hostilities with Iran as a new conflict so they don't have to seek congressional approval for continued hostilities. They are just flouting the rules. They're using legalese to continue illegal action. And they are classifying all the the ha the casualties as a part of that illegal action as a new category for veterans' benefits and reporting. And it's it's Mike Winson: Mm. Adam Dunigan VA08: insane. It's just this is so fundamentally against who we're supposed to be as a country, as a people, and as a government. And to see our foreign policy and our military policy subordinated to just just lunatics at this point, it's really, really depressing. And that's why I I'm really hoping, you know, whatever happens in my election's fine. But like I'm really hoping that whatever happens in November in the generals, that our next slate of legislators from across the country better reflects the kind of people who have American values in their heart because these guys do not. Mike Winson: Is the only fix for something like that bring having people in those positions that care? Or is there is there something that you as a congressman or congress in general could do to help to help with that kind of issue? Because this administration loves saying that they're the, you know, they they're the most what's the what's the word of blanking on they they're the most transparent presidency Adam Dunigan VA08: Transparency, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mike Winson: ever. And yet We're constantly hearing cases where they're they're not being transparent. Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah. I I am I'm I'm a fan of the phrase that sorry, I'm a fan of the phrase sunlight is the best disinfectant. We do need transparency. These guys are obviously not, but you know, we're not surprised by their lives anymore. I, if I were to be elected, one of the first things I want to do, people always ask me which committee I want to get assigned to. One of the committees that I really want is the House Foreign Affairs Committee. There's a subcommittee on that, and it isn't usually sought, but it's for oversight and accountability. of special envoys, special appointees within foreign affairs. Steve, sorry, Jared Kushner and Steve Whitkoff, they got us into this war essentially, right? The president sent his son-in-law and another real estate dude to go negotiate on your behalf, my behalf, ours. They were special appointees of the US government negotiating with Iran. Those negotiations went so badly that we are now at war with Iran. Nobody has ever called them to account. On the House floor. They've never been put under oath and had to explain what happened and why. And I think that is a travesty, especially as we have American service members being killed and coming home and caskets draped in the American flag. Those two gentlemen, I'm couching myself here, those those guys, they need to answer for how we got here because they played a fundamental pivotal role in it. And so, yeah, we might not be able to stop wholesale this war because we're out of the executive. But even before twenty twenty eight and we get a democratic president, I wanna hear some I wanna hear some answers. And I wanna know exactly Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: what I got there. And if they lie or if they broke the law and violated the constitution, they go to fucking jail. Somebody has to be punished for this entire dark era of American politics. That's the only way we can burn out the rot that this has created. I don't see any other way. So that's as a single congressman from a single seat, I think that's our best bet. Other than that It's the power of the purse. So Congress has to deny future war funding. It just has to. So Senate, House, everyone has to hold the purse strings away from the Pentagon until withdrawal, de escalation, and some sort of workable framework for peace with Iran. I without those two things, the the accountability aspect, the transparency in the legislature, and holding the purse strings, I don't see how we come back from this. It's just gonna get worse. Mike Winson: Let's also get the Pentagon to pass an audit for once. that Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah, it'd be nice. Mike Winson: one of the one of the other places, one of the last places I want to go, because I know you've got a busy day. We were talking a little bit about stuff you've Adam Dunigan VA08: Doing do. Mike Winson: got going on later today. Some pretty some pretty cool stuff. if you if you follow Destiny, if you're listening, you follow Destiny, you're gonna be on with him later today, which is which is pretty amazing. but so One of the other obvious ramifications that that we've all been dealing with in this country is the increased cost of of everything because the Strait of Hormuz being closed and now the Bob Almendeb Strait being Pretty much closed. you know, it at least they can't. Yeah, that's that's the it's very dicey. Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah. Yep. A little a little dicey, I believe it was referred to as. Mike Winson: and you know, the insurance companies have have already the main insurance company for all of them has already come out and basically said, we're not insuring any of you for anything anymore, which is frightening, Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah. Yep. Mike Winson: to say the least. so we're already seeing the cost of goods skyrocket by September. It's probably going to be worse. while oil is going up and down because of market manipulation by this administration, gas is is not going up and down very much. It's pretty much just consistently starting to go up. Our our strategic reserves are at near historic lows. How we're even if let's say it just Let's just say the the war ended tomorrow and both of them opened back up. We figured something out. There is a fundamental issue with how our trade structure is set up for the American people, because we've got, you know, most of our fertilizer comes from the Persian Gulf. And one of the reason prices are going to go up is because they either had to pay 20% more of their fertilizer or there just wasn't enough accessible. And so we're going to have a we're going to have food supply problems in the United States. And Because our oil is owned by companies, their job is just to make as much profit as humanly possible. So that also doesn't help the American people. What do you see us being able to do to help the American people? Not just because of what's going on now, but in the future to help prevent something like any country starting something in one of these other trade routes? Destroying us as much as it is. Adam Dunigan VA08: Yeah. So I I've said this quite a bit since the start of the war, but I think there's an opportunity right now. This is all really dark and scary and we should all hate it. However, if we're willing to think creatively and we're willing to do some some political judo, you know, use the inertia of the conservatives against them, we can actually do some very interesting things that could make us more resilient and things cheaper in our lives right now. Excuse me. Energy is the is the first sector that I point to, right? So conservatives are these, you know The the caricature that I have in my mind is that guy that's like rolling coal and he's like, I'm never gonna drive one of those gay hybrids 'cause blah, whatever. So so right now, even those people that are, you know, like big fans of the oil lobby and the petrochemical dependence of the US on the world stage, we have a chance to use this inertia from the war to get funding and research and implementation behind green energy, and that's Mike Winson: Mm. Adam Dunigan VA08: renewables like solar and wind, and that's also safe nuclear. and future future tech research like nuclear fusion. My incumbent that I'm running against here, he's actually really big into nuclear fusion, and it's one of the things that I admire about him. Like we can push ourselves into a new revolution of energy in the US. And we can I mean, they love onshoring of jobs, right? So let's call it onshoring of America's energy market. So let's get off petrochemical dependence and move towards these technologies that we have right now and have not stood up at any scale. We can be resilient and durable against these disruptions if we just stop being addicted to oil. And it's very, Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: very easy for us to say that because I think in democratic politics, we've been for this for a long a long time. The failure of the Green New Deal comes to mind. We can reinvigorate that conversation and redouble our efforts to get these techs, these tech the I'm sorry, to get this tech implemented In a way that brings down energy costs for every single household in America. And that's not like a ten year project. That could be an eighteen month project, a two year project, if we have the political will to move. And the only political will we were missing was about forty percent of the country that vote conservative. Right now, if we can use this against them, if they are uncomfortable as as uncomfortable as I think they are with the excesses of this administration in Iran, we can build a coalition to move forward on these initiatives that can help people right now. And with more energy comes the ability to build more. And if you want to solve housing, you're gonna have to build more housing. You're gonna have to supply that housing with electricity. And as electricity becomes cheaper, so do the construction methods for some of the new modular home construction. As more homes go up and people can afford a little bit more room, so do they invest in communities for better services. As novel farming innovation takes hold. Vertical farms are a great thing that there's a couple of labs in in Virginia that are showing some promise here. You know, the There are solutions to basically every part of the affordability problem. There are solutions even to this war in Iran. You just gotta think creatively about how to get there. And we fundamentally don't have any creative thinking in the American legislature or the presidency at this point. I'm hoping that whatever comes after this, and I hope to be a big part of it, but whatever comes after this, we need to encourage that out-of-the-box thinking and give some of these new technologies and and approaches room to breathe. Mike Winson: Yeah. I think you know, we hear we hear about the job market problems. There's there's you know, especially trade and doctors and things like that. And I I feel like the response right now is always just telling people to do it. Where I feel like that's one of those places where the government I think can have a benefit, which is not just saying we need more, but actually doing things to actively encourage people and and make it something that people want to consider. And you know, I think that's the best way we're gonna grow in a lot of these sectors that that have the ability is. encouraging people, finding ways to encourage people and not just saying, you know, go to college for this or go to school for this. Like let's do something to encourage it. Adam Dunigan VA08: Positive incentive, you know. if if we can reimagine the next let's say 10 to 20 years politically in the US as a project to like rediscover the American experiment, you can get buying on that, right? Like let's do an American Civil Engineer Corps, let's do Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: some sort of like statistic actuarial outlook on what we need to go where we want to go and incentivize those positively. We have an Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: entire Bureau of Labor Statistics. that could and does predict our labor needs over time. So why don't why don't we incentivize education and trade education in any of those fields? You know, I went to Harvard on the GI Bill, which was great, I can brag about it, but like what if you didn't need to go to Afghanistan to get your education paid for if you're willing to go work in rural areas, in healthcare, Mike Winson: Yes. Adam Dunigan VA08: in in infrastructure, in the kinds of things that make people's lives better? Like I I would Mike Winson: Yes. Adam Dunigan VA08: much rather give a GI Bill equivalent somebody doing the work to heal sick people in rural America, then I would somebody like me who like turned a wrench on an airplane a few times in Afghanistan. Like I I don't think we should get a free ride ahead of anybody else, especially when the country is hurting so much here at home. I'm glad that I did and I would never want to take away veterans' benefits. But if we can do it for veterans, why can't we do it for the people doing the work for the people here at home? I think we should do both. I want this government to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and they just can't Mike Winson: Yeah. Adam Dunigan VA08: right now. Mike Winson: Yeah. so one last question regarding Iran and then and then I will let you go. Considering where we are right now in in this entire Iran war, what would you consider the best case scenario for getting out of it? And what do you see as potentially a worst case scenario if things don't go the way we hope they do? Adam Dunigan VA08: Worst case scenario is easy. you're already kind of seeing indications of regional expansion, right? So you have active hot zones now in the Persian Gulf, in the in the at the Bab Almandab, on the other side of the peninsula, and the Caspian Sea. The Ukrainians just shot up a a tanker that was headed for that was an Iranian tanker that they claimed was full of Russian weapons being shipped to fight the Ukrainians in the east. I I will never lose sleep over the Russians getting shot up. Or them or the Ukrainians doing what they believe is best based on their intel, like I support Ukraine 100%. That is a fight we have to win. However, those three hot zones, man, like that those didn't exist a year ago. You know, there was Russia, Ukraine, fine. But now we are seeing the regional expansion and the global expansion and the involvement of third parties. And each of those third parties, I put this out on a video recently, each of those third parties, they have their own escalation ladders, they have their own map. And they are not at the negotiation table between the US and Iran. So the odds of us starting shooting again go up exponentially every time you add a party that is disconnected from the de-escalation process. And we're doing that at an alarming rate. You know, eighteen, nineteen countries have been involved at this point, and they all have their own casualty counts, they all have their own long memories, they're all gonna change their nate the nature of their alliances with us over time in response to what we do. And they are also actors in this war. That can kick it off in in scary, surprising ways at any given moment. This is how World War One started, right? One guy got shot in Sarajevo, and then for the next nine-ish years, the entire world slaughtered each other. I don't want to go back to that, but there is a risk. The best case scenario is true de-escalation, contrition from The US government and a a redoubling of focus on rebuilding our alliances with Persian, with allies in the Persian Gulf. That's what we have to do. The Iranians ain't never gonna tarry with us now. I think the new hard line government is worse than the last. We can contain as best we can, but that containment is going to rely on allies, which is why all over the Gulf, we need to make sure that we are shoring up defense and we are shoring up our relationships with those governments. That's the best we can do. Mike Winson: Do you see the United States being having any contrition when it comes to what's going on? Adam Dunigan VA08: fuck no, no, Trump is a toddler. He's never gonna do it. No. Yeah, if he discovers the true meaning of Christmas and his heart grows three sizes. Yeah, for sure. I just don't see it happening. Yeah. Mike Winson: I really want to see that. Adam, thank you so much for spending time to talk about this really frightening thing going on in the world and in this country. again, for those of you that are in Virginia, make if you haven't voted early, get out and vote. You're the voting day is a week from today, which is August 4th. So make sure at least that day you get out and vote. If you're in district eight, you you know. I'm sure Adam wants your vote. I really very much appreciate that. Adam Dunigan VA08: I would I would very much like your vote, yes please, please vote for me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mike Winson: And I think you would be great at it. yeah. So thank you. Thank you for sitting down. And we'll put the link to your website down below. So if anyone wants to check you out or support you in any way, they can absolutely do that. And yeah, I appreciate you, man. Adam Dunigan VA08: I I hope one day to come on your show, Mike, and like not have to talk about the potential end of the world. That'd be that'd be nice. I I think I would enjoy that, man. Mike Winson: That we, you know what? We will we'll make sure we have a beer while we're doing it or something like that. Cause that that'll be a great day. All Adam Dunigan VA08: I will do. I will look forward to that day, sir. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Mike Winson: right. For everyone listening, thank you so much. Please hit all those likes, links, and everything below. it helps help me continue to do what I'm doing. Just so you know, breaking the meta is about having hard conversations when necessary, fighting to break the status quo and the idea that all people, no matter your race, religion, gender, or identity, deserve rights, respect, dignity, and safety. Again, Adam, thanks for being here. And for everyone else, we'll see you on Breaking Them Beta. Bye, guys. Adam Dunigan VA08: It means my