Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Tyler Robinson and the Cost of a Capital Trial (7/20/26)

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Tyler Robinson and the Cost of a Capital Trial (7/20/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. One
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: thing that's sure to get people fired up whenever you're
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: talking about a capital murder case is when the defendant
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  Speaker 1: is having the bill picked up by the taxpayer. And
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  Speaker 1: I understand why that could be confusing and why that
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  Speaker 1: could be frustrating, But in the system that we have,
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  Speaker 1: everybody's entitled to representation, and if they can't afford that representation,
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  Speaker 1: it's going to be provided to them. And when you're
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  Speaker 1: talking about a capital murder case that's as complex as
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  Speaker 1: Tyler Robinson's, you're talking about a boatload of money. I mean,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: look at how much money it costs to go after
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  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger. We're talking millions of dollars. And that was
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  Speaker 1: a local case that was gigantic as far as you
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  Speaker 1: know publicity, but certainly nothing like this case. And when
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  Speaker 1: you're talking about somebody that is going to be on
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  Speaker 1: the legal team defending Tyler Robinson, they have to be
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  Speaker 1: certified as a lawyer that deals with death penalty cases.
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  Speaker 1: Not every lawyer is capable of dealing with capital punishment,
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  Speaker 1: So of course the fee is going to be a
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  Speaker 1: little bit more. And when you start, you know, churning
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  Speaker 1: out the weeks, churning out the hours, the cost adds up,
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  Speaker 1: and the people of Utah, the taxpayers, unfortunately, they're on
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  Speaker 1: the hook. So today we have an article from the
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  Speaker 1: New York Post and the headline taxpayers could end up
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  Speaker 1: shelling out over ten million for lawyers to defend accused
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  Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk killer Tyler Robinson. And I know that sounds
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  Speaker 1: very unfair, but it's the way it goes. If you
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  Speaker 1: can afford a lawyer, you have to be provided with
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  Speaker 1: one that's competent, one that's going to be able to
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  Speaker 1: defend you to the best of their ability. And I
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  Speaker 1: think that's what's going on with Tyler Robinson. Now, if
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  Speaker 1: he wants to get a lawyer for himself, or if
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  Speaker 1: his friends want to put together some kind of fund,
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  Speaker 1: cool whatever, better off. But unless that happens, this is
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  Speaker 1: unfortunately the result. And the people that have to deal
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  Speaker 1: with the trauma, the people that have to deal with
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  Speaker 1: all of this circus that's now in town because of
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  Speaker 1: allegedly what Tyler Robinson did, well now they got to
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  Speaker 1: pay for it too. So yeah, it seems like an
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  Speaker 1: injustice and I definitely get that emotion, but we have
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  Speaker 1: to understand that when the state is talking about taking
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  Speaker 1: somebody's life, it's a whole lass other discussion. There's no
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  Speaker 1: going back from that. So, in my opinion, whenever we're
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  Speaker 1: talking about capital murder, especially, there has to be qualified lawyers,
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  Speaker 1: and people have to understand that it's going to cost
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  Speaker 1: a lot of money. This article was authored by Priscilla
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  Speaker 1: the Gregory. Utah taxpayers could end up shelling out more
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  Speaker 1: than a mind boggling ten million for Tyler Robinson's lawyers
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  Speaker 1: to defend them in the Charlie Kirk assassination. According to experts,
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  Speaker 1: the whopping potential cost is possible because the nature of
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  Speaker 1: such a sensational capital murder case, where the stakes are
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  Speaker 1: as high as it gets, with the defendant's life on
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  Speaker 1: the line, and there are likely years of appeals upon conviction.
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  Speaker 1: They said one thousand percent unless he cops a plea,
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  Speaker 1: because if he cops a plea, the judge might say, look,
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  Speaker 1: you have no ability to appeal this moving forward. You've
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  Speaker 1: copped to the plea, the same as they did with Coburger.
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  Speaker 1: Now is that going to happen? I don't know. We're
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  Speaker 1: still in the very early stages. So we don't even
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  Speaker 1: have all the evidence, right, We don't know what discovery
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  Speaker 1: has been turned over. We don't have all the Jillio
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  Speaker 1: Brady information, so we're kind of flying blind and there
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  Speaker 1: is still a lot of speculation. Right. However, we do
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  Speaker 1: have enough to go on when it comes to the
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  Speaker 1: prelimb hearing. And that's why I really wasn't talking about
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  Speaker 1: this too often until we had that prelim hearing. I
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  Speaker 1: wanted to see what the evidence was. I know, shocking, right,
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  Speaker 1: Let's take a look at the evidence and what I say,
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  Speaker 1: law at that prelim hearing was enough circumstantial evidence to
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  Speaker 1: give me probable cause that they got the right guy.
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  Speaker 1: Does that mean it's true that he did it. No,
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  Speaker 1: we have to go through the process, and I think
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  Speaker 1: it's way too early to proclaim one way or the
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  Speaker 1: other who did what Robinson Stonewalling lawyers are litigating anything
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  Speaker 1: and everything to try to bring the prosecution to the
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  Speaker 1: table to offer a life without the possibility of prole deal,
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  Speaker 1: said Nyamorakmani, a prominent former prosecutor with no ties to
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  Speaker 1: the case, to the Post on Monday. I think that's
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  Speaker 1: the likely scenario, and I would not be shocked if
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  Speaker 1: this does not get the trial. I know that would
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  Speaker 1: ruin a lot of grifting going on for people, but
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  Speaker 1: I would not be shocked. Nobody thought that Coburger was
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  Speaker 1: gonna plea And I think it's pretty ironic that a
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  Speaker 1: lot of the same people that are pushing this Tyler
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  Speaker 1: Robinson narrative are the same people that tried to say
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  Speaker 1: that Brian Colberger was being set up as well. Different case,
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  Speaker 1: new grift. So yeah, it's costing taxpayers, he said of
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  Speaker 1: the drawn out process, which most recently involved Robinson's pre
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  Speaker 1: lim hearings. But what do you expect the defense to do.
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  Speaker 1: They're playing the hand that they're dealt, right, and it's
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  Speaker 1: not a good hand. And I've heard that from so
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  Speaker 1: many lawyers that it's not even funny. I was talking
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  Speaker 1: to a friend of mine who's a trial lawyer, and
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  Speaker 1: he was like, dude, with that kind of evidence, it
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  Speaker 1: is an uphill battle. And people can, you know, gnash
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  Speaker 1: their teeth and cry and yell and scream all they want,
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  Speaker 1: but none of that changes the facts in the courtroom,
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  Speaker 1: and none of that's going to change the process because
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  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the only opinions that
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  Speaker 1: are going to matter are from the twelve jurors that
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  Speaker 1: get elected to that jury. The twenty three year old
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  Speaker 1: left the alleged murderer, is accused of fatally shooting the
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  Speaker 1: charismatic conservative Turning Point USA co founder, a married, thirty
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  Speaker 1: one year old data too, as he was speaking in
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  Speaker 1: front of a crowd of thousands at Utah Valley University
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  Speaker 1: in Orum. In September, the Utah Commission approved an initial
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  Speaker 1: one million dollars in funding last year to pay the
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  Speaker 1: salaries of both Robinson's high powered lawyers and prosecutors on
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  Speaker 1: the case. Fox News reported a county lawmaker then said
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  Speaker 1: in February that an additional one million would be needed
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  Speaker 1: from the state for the lawyers, for a total of
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  Speaker 1: at least two million, after the county had already paid
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  Speaker 1: the defense team three hundred and forty nine thousand. Look,
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  Speaker 1: same story for Coburger, same story. I think his lawyers
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  Speaker 1: were making like four hundred and twenty five bucks an
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  Speaker 1: hour or something like that, something crazy like that. But
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  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's a complex case,
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  Speaker 1: and we're talking about capital murder. You know how much
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  Speaker 1: time it takes to go through that Specialists going through
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  Speaker 1: every bit of discovery, looking for every loophole. There is
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  Speaker 1: a lot that goes into it, and I think as
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  Speaker 1: we move forward, the people out there that might not
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  Speaker 1: have followed one of these kinds of murder investigations previously
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  Speaker 1: are gonna be shocked. It's very complex and there's a
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  Speaker 1: lot of moving parts. Part of the reason for the
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  Speaker 1: high price tag is because Robinson, who has been deemed
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  Speaker 1: too poor to pay for his own defense, is entitled
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  Speaker 1: under state law to be reapped by a highly specialized
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  Speaker 1: team of lawyers who are experts in the appeals process. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and if you want the conviction to stand. If there
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  Speaker 1: is a conviction, the prosecution has to respect the process
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  Speaker 1: and they have to do everything in their power to
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  Speaker 1: make sure that everything's their constitutionally speaking, The lawyers thus
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  Speaker 1: command a higher price, and taxpayers must foot the bill
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  Speaker 1: as the painfully slow case plods along while his lawyers
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  Speaker 1: try to take possible execution off the table. Yeah, that's
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  Speaker 1: how it works. What do you think is lawyers are
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  Speaker 1: just going to be like, ah, yeah, you know what,
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  Speaker 1: all good, put this guy to death, No big deal.
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  Speaker 1: They're gonna fight tooth and nel and it's gonna get frustrating.
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  Speaker 1: People are gonna get mad, people are gonna have some
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  Speaker 1: things to say. But I would cause you to exercise
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  Speaker 1: a little bit of patience because I promise you this
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  Speaker 1: is going to take time. Robinson doesn't even have a
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  Speaker 1: trial date yet, ten months after the September tenth shooting.
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  Speaker 1: Well that's not shocking either. Whenever you have this kind
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  Speaker 1: of case, they're going to waive their right to a
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  Speaker 1: speedy trial. More time, the better for them. And that's
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  Speaker 1: exactly what Robinson did. The accused killers' lawyers have stonewalled
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  Speaker 1: the upcoming trial at every juncture by filing a slew
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  Speaker 1: of seemingly endless motions, ranging from repeated requests to keep
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  Speaker 1: the media from filming and photographing in court to seeking
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  Speaker 1: to disqualify and sanctioned prosecutors, all in an apparent bid
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  Speaker 1: to bring prosecutors to the plea deal table. And that's
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  Speaker 1: what they do. They'll try and frustrate the process, make
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  Speaker 1: it expensive, and wait the prosecution out, and if the
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  Speaker 1: prosecution doesn't have a strong case, sometimes they'll bend. Or
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  Speaker 1: if they want to spare the families the nightmare of
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  Speaker 1: living it all over again, like in Idaho, then they'll
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  Speaker 1: come to the table. But I don't know if that's
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  Speaker 1: going to happen here. I mean, we're talking about a
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  Speaker 1: politically charged event, and I don't know if the prosecutors
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  Speaker 1: in Utah are going to be satisfied with a plea deal.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm keeping an eye on the docket to look
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  Speaker 1: at what motions are filed to see if that gives
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  Speaker 1: us a little bit of a clue one way or
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  Speaker 1: the other. As far as Robinson's camp goes, the tactic
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  Speaker 1: would hopefully end up with the prosecution taking the death
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  Speaker 1: penalty off the table, similar to how the quadruple homicide
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  Speaker 1: case of Brian Colberger played out. Rockmanni said, And yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I think that's the best comparison as of now, considering
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  Speaker 1: the complexity and how much money it's going to cost,
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  Speaker 1: and also that case is relatively fresh in all of
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  Speaker 1: our minds. They're trying to put pressure on the prosecution
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  Speaker 1: to offer a life deal like they did in Coburger,
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  Speaker 1: Rockmani said of his lawyers. If the state offered a
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  Speaker 1: plea deal and a life sentence, the taxpayers would save
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  Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars, the expert said, noting it's
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  Speaker 1: usually cheaper to put someone behind bars for life than
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  Speaker 1: to sentence them to death. Because of the cost of
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  Speaker 1: the appeals process, it goes on forever, I mean forever,
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  Speaker 1: and of course it's a state the taxpayers have to
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  Speaker 1: pick it up the bill. Judge Tony Graff, who is
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  Speaker 1: overseeing the case, is also extra cautious, which has slowed
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  Speaker 1: things down. Rochmanny noted, I think all the attention on
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  Speaker 1: the case he doesn't want to make a mistake or
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  Speaker 1: be overturned on appeal. He said of the judge, he's
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  Speaker 1: very slow. He's very thorough, and he's very deliberate. Look,
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  Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. I know people aren't, but I am.
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  Speaker 1: I've been through this dog and pony show too many
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  Speaker 1: times and seeing way too many shitty judges screw things up.
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  Speaker 1: So as far as I'm concerned, I think that Judge
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  Speaker 1: Graff is doing a pretty good job thus far. Utah
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  Speaker 1: defense lawyer Nathan ever Shed told the Post he would
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  Speaker 1: actually expect Robinson's team to employ such a delay strategy
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  Speaker 1: because it's a common move in capital cases, as it
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  Speaker 1: means a seeking to secure a life in prison plead
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: deal BINGO one. Obviously, this is not a game, but
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  Speaker 1: they're playing a game within this, and it's a game
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  Speaker 1: to try and get the death penalty off the table.
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  Speaker 1: That's exactly what you're seeing here. That's what the argument's about,
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  Speaker 1: that's what the back and forth is about, and that's
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  Speaker 1: what the cajoling's about. And an off ramp is harder
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  Speaker 1: to find when it's raw and very, very fraught with emotion,
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  Speaker 1: whereas it's easier to find when it's less raw and
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  Speaker 1: you're able to come to the table. And I think
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  Speaker 1: that's true too. But at the end of the day,
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  Speaker 1: I don't think this is one of those that's going
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  Speaker 1: to die down. People saw what they saw and it
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  Speaker 1: was horrific. I don't care if you like Charlie Kirk
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  Speaker 1: or not. What I saw on my TV that day
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  Speaker 1: on my computer was absolutely horrific. He agreed with Rock
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  Speaker 1: Money that Robinson's case would be very pricey given the
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  Speaker 1: potentially long trial, his team of death penalty specific lawyers,
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  Speaker 1: and the for witnesses that would have to be hired
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  Speaker 1: to testify at both the guilt phase of trial and
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  Speaker 1: the sentencing phase. It's going to cost quite a bit
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  Speaker 1: of money to get to that point, EVERSHD said and
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  Speaker 1: the only people that will be paying for that are
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  Speaker 1: the taxpayers. Last week, Judge Graf sat through a multi
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  Speaker 1: day prelim hearing and must now decide whether there's probable
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: cause for the case to move to trial. The process
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: is utah's alternative to grand jury indictments, and that's why
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: at the prelim hearing you saw the prosecution get a
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: little bit more leeway to use things like hearsay. But
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  Speaker 1: as the process moves towards trial, that all ends. Not
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  Speaker 1: only was that hearing delayed by two months from his
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  Speaker 1: original May date, but Graff said he wouldn't rule until
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: further arguments in September, and a trial date wouldn't be
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  Speaker 1: put on the books until after his ruling and after
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  Speaker 1: Robinson's arraignment, which would follow if Graft finds probable cause.
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  Speaker 1: The defendants currently remanded behind bars. I have no doubt
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  Speaker 1: that he's going to find probable cause, because well, probable
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: cause exists. Kirk's widow, Erica Kirk, his parents, and family friends,
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  Speaker 1: were in attendance for the prelim hearings, during which gruesome
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: videos of the public shooting of Kirk were played for
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  Speaker 1: the judge. Erica stepped out of the courtroom while the
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: harrowing footage was shown. Erica did not respond to a
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: post request for a comment on Monday. Yo, I couldn't
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: even imagine. I'd probably have to get up and walk
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  Speaker 1: out too. I wouldn't want to see that kind of video,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that kind of evidence. Sorry, so I understand completely, but
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: as far as the rest of us go, we need
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  Speaker 1: to see all the evidence. We need to see it
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  Speaker 1: all because when you have a case like this, with
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: so many questions that's so politically charged, the only option
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: is transparency. Whether we get that or not is a
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: whole lass other thing, entirely all right, everybody that's going
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: to do it for this one. All of the information
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
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  Speaker 1: description box.