Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 360—735 GMAT, from Brazil. Australian MBB. Weatherhead vs Marshall wait list

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MBA Wire Taps 360—735 GMAT, from Brazil. Australian MBB. Weatherhead vs Marshall wait list · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the clear admit MBA admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, June 24, 2024. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 0:28
  Speaker B: Very good. Thank you, Graham.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: So, greetings from New Orleans. I'm in New Orleans at the Gmail Mac conference, have already run into dozens of admissions directors from all the leading programs and lots of old friends that you and I both know from our days at Wharton and just being in the industry for so long. But what's going on with you? And do you have any updates on how things are moving? Have things started to quiet down on the waitlist front?
• 0:50
  Speaker B: Yeah. Well, first of all, just tell all my mates that I say hello. I don't anticipate ever seeing them again. But I'm very happy you're all hanging, that you're all hanging out. But, yeah, we're still finishing up the cycle from last season. This actually, actually, this upcoming week, we've got a couple of decision deadlines for the deferred admissions program. So Harvard's two two and Wharton's deferred admissions program have announced their decisions this week. And that basically concludes the official decision deadlines for all the top programs. We've still got a few people on the wait list, and that will continue all through the summer. We've got a few people talking about the January program at Columbia and just a few other sort of things. But mostly the season is sort of coming to a conclusion, with the exception of the summer waitlists.
• 1:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. Now we're kind of really turning our attention to the coming cycle. And we're running that weekly column, the weekly refresh, where we document all the schools that have released deadlines or essay topics to help our listeners and our site users to stay on top of things, because this is. Yeah, we're getting into the busier period for putting in applications for the first round. Along those lines, we have our series of webinars that we're doing over the course of July, which are all aimed to help people with their essays. So you should definitely sign up for these. We've got them on, I guess it starts on July 10, which is a Wednesday, noon Eastern. We spend an hour, we talk with a set of schools, and we do it every week. So July 10, 17th, 24th, and 31st. So for four weeks in a row, I keep saying I'm not gonna read the full list of schools. So, I mean, it's really a who's who of the leading business schools, you know, from Yale and Tuck and Booth and Wharton and Columbia. I mean, there's a big list here, and you can sign up for this at bit Lee summer essays. So join us for that. We already have. I mean, there are a ton of people signed up, so get signed up if you haven't already. It's gonna be a lot of fun. And, yeah, I've seen a bunch of the people that are gonna be joining us for those webinars here while I'm in New Orleans, too. So, yeah, everyone's looking forward to this. It's always kind of, for us, it's like the official start of our events for the, you know, the coming cycle and stuff. So it's gonna be fun.
• 3:18
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, no, it's very good. Very well attended.
• 3:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, always. So the other thing is, over on the website, we ran a piece that helps people to understand the difference between the old GMAT scores and the new. So if you're a candidate and you're looking at like, oh, I want to go to this top school. And here's their historical kind of GMAT average. You might quickly realize that their published historical GMAT average is based on the old test, which is on a slightly different scale. So a school like Wharton might say their average GMAT is 730, or whatever it might be. But then the new test that, you know, what is a 730 on the new test? It's like a six, I don't know, 85 or, you know, it's a little bit confusing. We also have percentile. So we wrote this piece. One of our journalists on the site, Peggy, did this amazing piece about how to kind of compare and contrast old and new and why they've made changes that they've put in place. And so a great primer. And actually, somebody over at GMAC told me they really liked the piece. So that was good.
• 4:19
  Speaker B: Yeah. Focus on the percentiles.
• 4:21
  Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah.
• 4:23
  Speaker B: I think if I'd have put that article in chat GPT and said, summarize it in a sentence. It's a focus on the percentiles, tiles.
• 4:30
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. So that you can do sort of apples to apples. The other thing is, we also ran a story about NYU Stern. They announced a kind of a little bit, some changes to the curriculum and the naming of one of their specialized one year MBA programs. As you know from. We've talked about this on the show before, they have a one year tech MBA, and they had a one year fashion and luxury MBA. Well, they've removed the word fashion from that second one, and now it's a luxury and retail MBA. And this is because they realized as they, you know, kind of over time here with this program that there are a lot of people interested in the luxury sector but who want to do luxury for automotive or other areas. There are all kinds of real estate. There's all kinds of other areas that pertain to luxury. They've broadened the scope with this luxury and retail instead of emphasizing fashion. Apparently we did a long piece about some of the changes, but people seem really excited about this. I think it's a smart move on their part and probably to some extent reflecting reality of, like, what people were doing with the degree. Right. So I think that's a positive for stern.
• 5:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
• 5:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then the only other thing I wanted to talk about, Alex, before we get into our candidates, is we, as I mentioned last week, we continue to do these admissions director Q and A's on the website. Lauren on our team leads that every year. And so we've got three more that came out this week. So we sat down with Andrea McHale from Michigan, Ross, and I'm just going to share a little quote from her because we asked them all kinds of questions about how they run their admissions process, what they're looking for in a lot of the operational stuff, too, so we can understand the life of a file as it travels through their office. But we asked Andrea about how she and her team at Ros approached the essay portion, and I thought that was a good one to focus on on the show here because we've just been talking about essays and our essay workshops that are coming up. And she writes, be concise and articulate, stick to the word limit and thoroughly edit your essays for clarity and grammar. Having others proofread your work can provide valuable perspectives. Be transparent about your experiences, including setbacks, as this showcases resilience and a growth mindset which are valued by the admissions committee. Avoid negative tones or strong opinions unrelated to your goals, and focus on presenting yourself positively and constructively. So that was Andrea's advice over at Michigan, Ross, I think.
• 6:58
  Speaker B: Did she add, don't talk politics or something? It sounded a little bit like that, yeah.
• 7:04
  Speaker A: But you and I have seen this as admissions readers. Occasionally you'll get a candidate who just sort of goes off on a little bit of a tangent. And it could be political. It could be. So I hear what she's saying there. Yeah. Maybe that's happened to her at some point or another. We also caught up with Rebecca Mallon Churchill, who's the admissions director over at Arizona State Kerry. And again, we asked her. And I'm just kind of sticking with the theme here. How do you approach the essay portion? And she said, speak from the heart. Don't feel compelled to use business jargon if it's not part of your normal speech. By no means put anything in your essay simply because you think it is something the committee wants to hear. I promise we'll know it's not genuine. Proofread your essay. Did you reference the right school? Are there spelling errors? Did you answer the question? A good rule of thumb is to have someone else read your essay, cover up the prompt, and have them guess it if they can't, try again. So I thought that was good, too. Like giving someone your essay and having them not know what the question was and having to tell you what the question was.
• 8:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, I've never heard that advice. That's quite interesting. Yeah.
• 8:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, you know, that's. I think obviously, as you always say, Alex, answer the question and give a pretty quick signal of how you're going to answer that question right away in the essay.
• 8:18
  Speaker B: Right.
• 8:18
  Speaker A: So I think that's good advice. And then lastly, we caught up with Kara Trippie, who's the director of admissions over at Michigan State. That's the broad college of Business. Or is it broad? I always get confused as to how we pronounce that, but I'm going to say broad because I'm from Philly and that's how we spell that street. But in any event. Yeah, so, okay, so we asked. So, a little bit of a twist. How do you approach, in this case, the video essay? Because she talked quite a bit about their video essay, and she said, the video essay is a bit different than the written essay, as candidates do not know what question they're going to be asked prior to recording. The video essay offers a unique chance to show critical thinking and communication skills in a dynamic format. And we look for candidates who can think quickly on their feet and formulate a thorough response. I always say this is the perfect introduction to the admissions interview, which happens later. Overall, my biggest piece of advice when approaching essays, though, is to start with intention. So, anyway, that was her take. I thought that was kind of interesting. And I think more and more schools are moving to use these little video prompts where, you know, you're basically, you know, you log into this system and it throws a question at you and you have, like, 30 seconds to just, you know, answer. And you don't get to do multiple takes. It's just really off the cuff. And the. They don't tell you the questions in advance. So that's.
• 9:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think, yeah, Kellogg, I just seen their essay topic analyses that we, we run each season and there's definitely a big component of that for Kellogg. And I think at the end of the day, authenticity is really important throughout the application process. And the video essay really requires authenticity because like you say, you don't get the prompt ahead of time. You can't overly prep, get other people to review and give you feedback. And this and the other, this is you. This is how you answer that question within the context of what, 30, 90 seconds or whatever time they give you to answer it.
• 10:15
  Speaker A: And definitely something you can practice with. I mean, on the forums and even in our interview archive, for example, there are tons of questions that are asked and you could always go through those and record yourself on your phone, see how you're able to do when you're given a question and just have to give a quick answer.
• 10:32
  Speaker B: I think at the end of the day, Graham, the best way to prepare for these things is just be really confident about your overall candidacy and why you're applying and all that stuff. So whatever the questions that they come up with, you should feel really comfortable answering because you know that applying to broad or to Kellogg or whatever is a great next step for you.
• 10:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Speaker B: Doesn't have to be the best next step. I think sometimes people get tripped up that it has to. I have to show broad that they're the very best at what they do for me, just convince them that they're a great next step based on being authentic.
• 11:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And I think it's hard at this phase of the admission cycle. I think a lot of our listeners and people over on clearadmit.com are kind of just beginning and so they're like, well, how could I possibly be ready to answer these kinds of questions? But you'll get there. You know, as you work on your applications, you will become an expert on why you want the MBA, what you're going to do next, and why each school is a nice fit for you. So, yeah, absolutely. Good advice and I'm looking forward to seeing more. I know Lauren told us she's got us a pile of these admissions director Q and A's. I also, I ran into a couple of folks here at the conference. I won't name names, but they, they're like, I'm working on it. Like they, you know, everyone knows they gotta get it into us. So we. There are a lot of these coming, so stay tuned. There, there. Last.
• 11:51
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 11:51
  Speaker A: Last thing is we haven't had any reviews or, you know, ratings for a while. So if you have a moment, go over to Apple podcasts, leave us a review. They're just so helpful in kind of getting the word out about the show. Please do that. If you can take a moment, you can also rate us on Spotify. You can write to us@infolereadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps and we will write you back. So send us some mail. It's been a little while, Alex, since we got an email, so I'm hoping.
• 12:15
  Speaker B: Maybe we've run out of listeners.
• 12:17
  Speaker A: Graham, you might be right. Yeah. One last thing before our candidates this week, we did run a special episode that you can see in the feed here if you're listening. That is with Noble Stafford, the head of recruiting, vice president recruiting, actually, over at Bain and company. He works out of their Chicago office. And I did an interview with him in person in Chicago that we recorded, and that's now in the feed here. So if you're listening to this show, you can find it. If you're, you know, you get a listen, there's a ton of information in there about how to get a job at Bain and how they interview and really about strategy consulting writ large. So that's here. You can listen to that. And there's more to come with those extra bonus episodes from Chicago. So stay tuned on that front. But otherwise, Alex, do you have anything else before we dive in?
• 13:00
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 13:01
  Speaker A: All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week has six schools on the target list, and they're looking to start in the fall of 25. Those schools that they're looking at are Berkeley, Harvard, LBS, MIT, Stanford, and UChicago.
• 13:21
  Speaker B: Booth.
• 13:22
  Speaker A: This person's been working as a tech manager and a product manager prior to business school. They're thinking about a number of things post MBA. They've got consulting technology, private equity banking on the list. And as a result, they list a whole bunch of different companies, from Bain and McKinsey to Amazon and Microsoft and others. So they don't really know what they want to do. Their GMAT score is a 735. And I probably should open up our GMAT, our gMAT primer article to help convert this. But that is an off the charts really, really high score, just if you're keeping score at home, because the 735 on the news test is probably like a 780 or something, very high. They had a 3.5 Gpa in undergrad. They have five and a half years of work experience. This candidate is located in Brazil and they actually state that their post MBA location is kind of undefined. They're sort of trying to decide between getting a sponsorship from, I guess, the bank that they're currently doing some work for and then just returning to Brazil or maybe staying in the US or if they go to LBI so they don't really know what their plan is. They mentioned that they're male, that they're black, that they studied econ and business administration as an undergrad, had several extracurriculars as an undergrad as well. And then they also say they worked at a mama company, which, remember is, I'm going to get this all messed up now, but it's Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, Apple and Alphabet, I guess. I mean, who knows what the order is, right? But that's. So they worked at one of those companies and they've also worked for a brazilian multinational footwear and apparel company where they were promoted twice to become a manager in tech. They are currently working as a senior product manager for the largest bank in Latin America. And their goals for the MBA are to expand their network, to feel challenged by a group of ambitious peers, open new possibilities for employment and acquire knowledge relevant to open their own business in the future. So, Alex, what do you make of this? Because on the one hand, I actually. My heart is melting a little bit at these. You know, they have these four really kind of nice reasons for getting an MBA. You know, they want to expand their network, they want to be challenged, they want to open up possibilities. But I have a feeling that we're going to come down on the fact that they don't really know what they want. So where do you stand on this?
• 15:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, quite frankly, Graeme, this is an outstanding profile, you know, coming from Brazil with a top test score. And we know Latin America test score testing culture isn't as sort of developed as North America. So having this test score coming out of Brazil, it seems like their work experience is probably very strong. They, like you say, they work at a mammoth or worked at a mammoth company. When's it going to be manmade? Is now the most expensive company in the world according to the last chart on pure greed or whatever you call these charts. So I'm not quite sure why Nvidia isn't in. Yes, but anyway, the point is it looks like their work experience is top notch or at least working for top companies. Top GMAT score coming out of Latin American. They're going to be really sought after, I think. We don't know as much about their current extracurriculars, but they were involved in school, so they've got an affinity for that kind of stuff. So that's really good. I just want them to spend this summer really refining those goals, Graham, before they deliver their applications into that first round. Because if they really fine tune their goals and come across as someone that's really thought thoughtful in terms of where they see this NBA carrying them over the next several years, I think in the long run they want to start a business, and I think that as a long term goal is very good. It would be good for them to have some sort of focus on what that type of business is, where it is, what impact it's going to have, and then the short term goal to get there. I think if they really develop that side of their profile, Graeme, they're gonna really be a sought after candidate. I'm just a little bit worried that that's just not as well developed as absolutely everything else in this profile.
• 17:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I mean, to me, that's the linchpin, is they need to come up with a set of goals. And I'm kind of in reading this, like I am seeing a very easy path for them. They could say they want to do consulting and that they're thinking about something entrepreneurial. Maybe they have a specific domain in the long term because they talk about wanting to acquire knowledge relevant to running their own company in the future, and they have a variety of experiences, so if they can come up with a path, that's going to just help them tremendously. But I think everything else sort of lines up. I mean, we don't have all the details. They have five and a half years of experience and they have bounced around a little bit. They worked at one of the mama companies, but they also did working for a bank. They've kind of bounced around a little bit, but with five and a half years, it's possible that they've done two years at each place or close to two years at each place, so that's sufficient. And they are an.
• 18:41
  Speaker B: You do make a good point, though. They've got to explain the whys between their switches from big tech to big brand, whatever, footwear brand to banking.
• 18:55
  Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah, because those are kind of all over the map, and that's probably why they don't know their goals yet, because they've had these three probably quite different experiences. So. But I will say the thing I was talking about earlier is I really admire the fact that they want to be challenged, they want to be in an environment where they're surrounded by really bright individuals who are going to push their boundaries and help them. So that's great. And that's admirable. But, yeah, everything lines up. They just need to, as you say, explain the path that they've been on. Have a path, a proposed path for the future, and they should be in great shape. You know, if they add an end to mama and put it right on the end there, it would be almost like mammon, which is the french word for mom. So that would still work, you know, but we'll see. In any event, no, I think this person, the world is their oyster. Like, they, as you say, amazing numbers, and they could get in where they want, but they need to figure out how to describe their path.
• 19:48
  Speaker B: Yeah. And again, it's not just about numbers, but, you know, I reckon they've probably done very well at work.
• 19:54
  Speaker A: Sure. Yeah.
• 19:55
  Speaker B: Even in their three different things. I think this is a high achieving type of profile, but they've just got to sort out this outcomes. Focus the goals. Focus and, yeah, this is really strong profile.
• 20:11
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I want to thank them for sharing their profile on the site and wish them the best of luck. Hopefully, they'll follow up with some comments. And as they refine their goals, they can run them by us if they want. But let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So, our second candidate this week has just four schools on the target list, and those schools are Harvard, Stanford, Wharton and MIT. They want to start school in the fall of 25, just like our first contestant this week. They are working at. They don't say which, but they're working at one of McKinsey, Bain or BCG. They want to stay in consulting after business school. They have a GMAT score of 740, so very good score on the earlier version of the test, obviously. They have a 3.7 GPA, three years of work experience, they indicate, although I think that's how many years they'll have upon matriculation. They are located in Australia and they want to stay in Australia. They do mention in the notes that they are currently a second year australian MBB analyst on track for promotion by the time they apply in round one. So I guess that promotion is really forthcoming here. And then they mentioned they're wondering, just how realistic are Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, given their statistics? And that's all we've got. They didn't give us a lot of other information. So, Alex, how would you proceed with this? You know, are they barking up the right tree? What do you make of this?
• 21:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, possibly they are right. I mean their accounting stats are again, a very strong, you know, decent GMAT GPA looks very strong. They've got obviously the career coming out of undergrad that is most sought after doing MBB consulting, or at least that's one of the tracks that the high profile undergraduates will focus on. And they seem like they've done well at MBB. So they're heading on for a promotion into their third year or whatever that might be. So I think there's some. And they're from Australia. Right. So let's be frank, kind of like Brazil. Well, you know, these are, these are going to be underrepresented international markets, right?
• 22:27
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 22:27
  Speaker B: So top schools in the US like to have a nice sort of balance of different international countries represented so that they've got lots of sort of cultural diversity but also experiential diversity by region and so on and so forth for all that classroom engagement. So, you know, there aren't going to be too many top candidates coming to business school in North America from, from, from these top firms out of Australia or New Zealand or whatever. So that's going to help them. Like, I'd like to know a little bit more about their personality and, you know, what they might do outside of work, what they did at undergrad outside of work. Obviously there's some stereotypes about Australians. So, you know, are they sports mad or are they doing crazy things, whatever it is that they do. So just understanding a bit more about that element of their profile, that would be very good. I'd like to know a little bit more about their post MBA goals. You know, their plan to sort of return to consulting. Fair enough. But what is their long run in impact? Where do they see themselves in ten years, 15 years after getting a top MBA from a US program? So like to just learn a little bit more about that. What sort of stands them apart in that regard. But the core basic ingredient that is really strong stats, brand name firm that they're working at sort of helps us understand that they went through that rigorous recruiting process and they're probably surrounded by other really smart people and stuff. That stuff's there. So just a little bit more stuff that we're not so, so aware of to round out the overall profile. They're applied to top schools. Graham? I think at the end of the day, if they don't get into a top school next season, they can afford the luxury of reapplying and continue on and get another year of experience because that could be a weaker element, like three years of experience coming in.
• 24:40
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's fair. And they're aiming very high. Right. But I do think that, as you correctly point out, I just remember Australia is a market that does not send a ton of candidates to especially the top us schools. And there are always a handful and they're always sought after. And especially when you've got an Australian working at MBB, I mean, that's always a positive sign. So I think they should be able to write their ticket. You say it'd be nice to understand. Yeah. What are their current outside activities? What are their goals? I mean, obviously, as you say, they're going to go back to McKinsey or Bain or BCG, but what do they really want to do in the longer term? And, yeah, I'm curious. You mentioned these stereotypes about Australians. I'm shocked to hear that someone from the United Kingdom would have stereotypes about Australians. But no, it would be really helpful to know what else makes this person tick. Are they interested in sports or something? Or what are they doing with their spare time? And I imagine they're working really hard. They must have some other interests, so. But, yeah, actually, some of my greatest friends from Wharton were from Australia. There were a couple in my class, actually three, I guess, maybe as many as four or five of them, but I just remember, I think I've even.
• 25:50
  Speaker B: Hung out with one of them.
• 25:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know, all of them, actually. But, but, yeah, so it's, it's definitely, there's a small, like, pipeline to the us schools from Australia, but it's. It's a nice position to be in if you're applying from that market, for sure. So, yeah, I would just encourage this person to work on their, you know, kind of goals and story and obviously flesh out what they're doing with their extra time and stuff. But, yeah, they got the numbers and, you know, as you say, they could always reapply. So I'm not going to tell them they need to expand the list of schools here necessarily. They could reapply if they don't get in.
• 26:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, that was my point, that last comment. No need to dip down and get safety schools at this stage of their career.
• 26:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair. So. All right, well, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Best of luck. And they can always share additional details on the site with us if they so choose. Let's move on, though, and talk about why are candidate number three. So our final candidate, Alex, it's an applywire entry that you've chosen, but it actually behaves a little bit like a decision wire entry because the person who posted it has some outcomes already. So they have like six schools here. There's Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, Rochester, USC Marshall, UT Austin, and Washington University. And they want to start this fall. Right? So they've already applied to these schools, and I'll get into the results in a second. But they were working, or have been working in advertising and design. They want to pivot into consulting or possibly tech or entrepreneurship. They've got a whole bunch of companies that they want to work for, including Accenture, Deloitte, Ernst and Young, KPMG, and then a handful of tech companies, too, that they mentioned. So they, depending on what they do, I guess they'll go one way or the other. Gre score was a 318. Their undergraduate GPA is a 3.64. They have four years of work experience to date, and they're actually located in Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam. And they would love to land in southern California. That's the goal. They also, you know, they applied to some other schools, too, that are, I guess we're not on the pick list on our site. So they applied to University of Utah. They applied to William and Mary, as well as George Washington University. So it was a total of nine schools that they had up targeting. They were denied admission by Utah and Rochester. They were wait listed at Washington University in St. Louis. They were accepted to William and Mary, but with no scholarship. They were also accepted to case Weatherhead with a merit based scholarship and fellowship. And it sounds like they're on the waiting list at a bunch of these other schools, Tepper USC, or did us. Anyway, they get into it in the comments. It's very complicated. Complicated. But I'll let you shed light on where they stand now. But they're trying to figure out, you know, where to go. And they're leading case Weatherhead because, sorry, case Western, which is the Weatherhead School of Management, which is where they've been accepted, and they have a scholarship. But I guess they're still waiting on some of these wait list sort of outcomes. So, Alex, what do you make of this? I mean, it's a, we don't see that many candidates from Vietnam on the site. You know, GPA is good at 364, but gre leaves a little wanting.
• 28:55
  Speaker B: So.
• 28:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. What do you make of this? What's happened to them and what's your advice?
• 28:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's a little tricky, I think, because as we were talking about it before we came on air, they have a 318 on the GRE. That's probably a bit of a stumbling block that they've sort of run into. I'm sort of guessing that they applied a little bit late in the cycle this season, so they're now getting these results in. And we know that if you apply late in the cycle, things get more competitive. And it's been a bit of an up year on number of applications, so that might have factored in too. But, you know, they're on the wait list at, let's say, Marshall and Tepa. I think maybe somewhere else. Well, if they have any desire to get off those waitlists, they need to get their retake that Gre and try to get it into the. Would think that would do two things. One, it would make the score more comparable to those schools medium, but it would also show those schools that they're committed and they've got the self awareness and understanding. That's probably the weak point because they've got a decent GPA. It looks like four years of experience. I mean, we don't know that that's necessarily great experience, but let's just assume it's quite good experience and so on and so forth. So their current status is, you know, they've got scholarship at case Western. They might have one or two other non scholarship options, but they're basically pretty much committed to going to case Western. They have got a generous scholarship, so that's very good. And they've got lots of good reasons to go to case Western. Some, you know, they look forward to being in Cleveland. They've got a design background that aligns quite well with case Western and they mentioned some other aspects. But what puzzles me slightly, Graham, is that their desire to be in Southern California post MBA. So I think they're going to find it quite tricky. Like a lot of work on their part. It's not, you know, it's not. Not completely out of bounds, but it'll take a lot of work on their part along with the school to be able to get a placement out in Southern California, I would think. Right. Coming out of case Western, probably a lot of their career management's focused on the Midwest and whatever. I assume that's where Cleveland is, is. It's been a while since I've been over there, but yeah, but yeah, we know that these schools are effectively in the top 30 or whatever it is. Their career recruiting is very sort of localized to where they're based. So if that's good for this candidate, then absolutely. Maybe case Western is a really good option for them, take the really good scholarship and have a great two year experience. But if they really want to be in Southern California, the value of getting off that waitlist at Marshall would be huge. So, yeah, that's basically my assessment.
• 32:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think so the first thing that jumped out of me with this candidacy, I was like, wow, they applied to a lot of schools and they've had a lot of wait lists and, you know, and I. And even some of the schools I got into is sort of no money. And I'm thinking, wow, this is kind of an interesting candidate from Vietnam. Work experience sounds like it's fine. And I was like, I couldn't help but just be immediately drawn to that gre of 318 and think, wow, if they had, like a 323 or something, they probably would have not only gotten into more of these programs, but maybe had some money thrown their way. I assume they want to be in Southern California because they're sort of interested in both consulting and tech. And maybe some of it also is like proximity to Vietnam and to Asia. Right. So easy to get those flights right across. So I think that's it. But you're right. I mean, I think that the size of the alumni network for case western reserve MBA grads in the LA area or something is going to be small. And so that's why if there was any way they could get into USC, that would be probably the best fit for them. I think, again, it might be too late, but retaking that test and sending a score, as you say, would show a certain level of seriousness and commitment and may trigger an acceptance off the list. But we're getting down to the wire here, right. They're going to be needing to move somewhere in the next month or two. So it's really tricky. I think if they were to say that they are happy to work for Accenture, Deloitte, Ernst and Young, one of these consulting firms out in the midwest, very doable, I would think, from case western, and then they might have to just sort of make their pivot out west later. But, yeah, so there's a lot going on here, but I definitely agree with your assessment. And, yeah, it's just an interesting strategy, and we don't. I'm glad you picked this because we don't see a lot of people with this list of target schools from that market. Like, so it's just an interesting situation.
• 34:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. And hopefully good luck to the candidate. And if they do end up going to case western, which seems very, very likely. I mean, hopefully they'll have a great experience and that very well may be the case, but I think, as you say, they might have to readjust their goals in terms of that short term goal coming out. And maybe consulting in the midwest is a good starting point for them.
• 34:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So anyway, I want to thank them for sharing their journey. Very interesting. And yeah, hopefully we'll see where the chips fall for them, but I think they could have a really good experience at case western. It's a really nice, close knit small program. So in event. Alex, thanks so much for doing this. I know we do it at an oddball time because I'm out here in New Orleans and we're at I don't even know how many hours apart time zone wise, but appreciate you being flexible. Let's do it all again next week when I'm hopefully back in France with any luck. So we'll see how it goes.
• 34:58
  Speaker B: Very good. Best of luck, enjoy New Orleans and say hello to all my mates and everyone else. Take care, stay safe and we'll hopefully talk to you next week.