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Reaction: Tigers swept in Minnesota. How Bad Are Optics? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network Detroit Tigers Podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I'm Kieren Sekly with me as always a man who
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: knows better than the pull out a cell phone at AUGUSTA.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? He is Cody Stapenhagen. How we
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: do it?
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Dune right?
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: I've got the Masters on in front of me right now.
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: It's a lot more relaxing than watching the Tigers has been.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: That is true, That is true.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: We're recording this early Thursday evening, shortly after the Tigers
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: drop a four game series to the Minnesota Twins and
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: now stand at four wins and nine losses. Off the
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: top here, Cody, I guess we should try to get to, obviously,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the more serious and topical element from this game, and
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: that is Parker Meadows exited the game after a collision
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: in left center field with Riley Green trying to get
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the latest year. He will be taken, has been taken
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: to the hospital and we'll be we'll stay there in
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Minnesota for observation overnight. Uh. He was his left arm
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: was in a sling and and and he had some
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: blood in his mouth or whatever. So obviously can't speculate
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: about the you know, complete injury there, but obviously not good.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Then didn't look good.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I hope Parker's okay, but uh, you know, just a
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: really bad break on you know, to wrap up like,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: what was you know, a bad week so far of
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: baseball for Detroit.
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, certainly not what you would want to see. Parker
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Meadow's not really off to a towards start, but he
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: had gotten some hits. He had been playing decently. Again,
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: this is a guy you want in the lineup. You
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: won his defense. You wanted to hope that some bass
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: hits falling here and there could maybe lead to him
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: really getting going and be the impact player we all
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: know he could be. We don't know for sure that
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: this is going to be sidetracks now, but at the
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: time we're recording this win, sil Perez is not in
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: the Triple A Toledo lineup. Just from watching Parker looked
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: clearly out of it. Sounds like the blood was most
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: likely from him, you know, biting his lip or his tongue.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: He's also holding his you know, his arms apparently in
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: a sling. There wasn't a lot of movement there, so
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: we don't know the exact extent of the injury or injuries,
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: but aj Hinch I think called it scary. The vibe
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: from Minnesota seems to be that this probably isn't going
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: to be good. I would not be shocked if this
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: results in an IL stint. So yeah, to have was
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: a pretty short but brutal trip to Minnesota end with
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: a popular player and Parker Meadows likely headed to the IL.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: And not just the fact that he's hurt, but hurting
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: kind of a scary way, something that paused the game.
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: You had to get him carted off. You hope he's okay,
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: just beyond the obvious baseball impact. Really really not a
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: good way to be leaving town.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and obviously you know, complete recovery and
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff. We give him our are well
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: rich well wishes, but for the sake of just kind
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: of talking about the on field part of this, you know,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: moving forward with respect to Parker, Uh, you mentioned Wentzel there.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Max Clark has been making a lot of headlines for
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: tanning it up in Toledo. Obviously, some of this stuff
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: will be determined whether there is an i OLE stint,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: and you know how long it is and blah blah
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: blah blah. But like Wentzel, let's just say it's Wentzel
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: who gets gets the call up?
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Here? Is it as simple as put him in center?
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Like is it?
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: You know, Matt Vierling for whatever it's worth. And you
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: know this is also a j I know it didn't
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: amount to much, but kind of being in his bag here,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: didn't just go centerfielder for center fielder. He brought in
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: McGonagall to go to shortstop and then put Hovey by
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: it in center field. Thinking about the turnover of the
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: order coming up for the Tigers, like, like, what.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Is the plan in center field? Now?
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: You think with with Parker, you know, let's just presume
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: he misses some games.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll be really interested to see exactly how the
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: Tigers handle this. My first thought is put Hobby Buys
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: in center play Kevin mcgonagal at shortstop. Now he talked
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: about there might be more reservations than we first thought
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: about McGonagall playing shortstop on close to an everyday basis.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: But with the start you're on, and particularly with the
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: start col Keith is having, I wonder if that just
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: makes more sense. It can ensure you get cold Keith
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: in the lineup almost every day at third. Now the
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: trade off there, You're probably not gonna love your the
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: left side of your infield defensively with both cult and McGonagall.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: You know, you might be pushing both of them a
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: little bit defensively, But I wonder if that's worth it
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: to make sure sure Colts getting consistent playing time. And
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: then once a fromber day and you know the ball
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: is going to be on the ground a lot. Maybe
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: that's Hovey back at short and a Winsole or a
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: Veeling playing some more center. This is the Tigers, this
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: aj Hinch. I'm sure we're gonna see a little bit
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: of both. But I wonder if this sounds bad. But
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: in a way, this kind of solves some of the
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: lineup problems dilemmas you were facing a little bit. At
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: the very least, it makes it easier to make sure
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: Colt Keith is getting in there close to every day.
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: If your move is to bump Hobby Bias to centerfield.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sure this will be you know, it's
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: a plan.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: They'll have multi fat, multiple facets, So don't expect Friday
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: to be everything moving forward.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: So all right, let's.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Let's get to again, there's a couple of things that
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: happen in today's game, Cody that we would probably be
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: either leading with or more emotionally charged by had we not,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: you know, seen the unfortunate collision with with Riley, which
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: by the way, also thankfully he's okay too, So you'd
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: have two players that you know that that go down
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: with injury. But Jack Flaherty today had himself a pretty good,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: like a nicer game than I felt in the moment.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Is that like, uh, is that something that's that's that's us?
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: I would frame it almost the opposite. He had a
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: worse game than I felt when he was leaving the
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: field after after you know, getting into the six and
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: pitching a little deeper into the game for once.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: But yeah, both both are true in their own ways.
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: I would say, first off, hey, credit to Jack. He
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: was coming off a dismal start and he was let's
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: just say, quite shook in his his post game after
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: that start. He comes out today and he gets himself
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: a nice line score the VLO. We all know that's
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: pretty important to Jack, and even if he doesn't love
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: talking about it, he needs to be above ninety three
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: ninety three five he averaged ninety two.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: The vela actually ticked up late.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: In the game, but we saw what some eighty nine's
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: a couple of nineties didn't love that. He did walk
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: what three guys, But I would say outside of those walks,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: his command was way better. And that's really what it
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: has to be for Jack to be at his best
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: at this point. He needs to have feel for the
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: slider in the curveball and land the fastball, and for
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: the most part, he did that and that helped him
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: get deep into the game. So all that considered, Hey,
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: I think you take this a little bit of a
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: step forward for Jack, even if you would like certainly
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: to see the velocity higher next time. Yeah.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: In another part of this, too, Cody, like that kind
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: of compounds the frustration that the team is feeling and
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: certainly the fans are feeling. Is that like we talk
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: all the time about like you don't want to lose
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: schooble starts, like you know, like you know, like the
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: one nothing schooble start game loss like those those those
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: those suck, and certain situations can kind of come back
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to bite you down the line at the end of
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the season. I would probably also say that if Jack
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: flarerity is gonna go nearly six innings and he's gonna
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: give up one run and he's gonna get above five strikeouts, like,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: those are not really games I like dropping either, Cody,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: And I think that's actually because I because you know,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: people talk, you know, people have feelings about Jack flarity,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: and we have in our own way, we have feelings
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: about Jack clarity. But if you're getting this version of
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Jack flarity on the road in a tough environment, as
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: like you're not gonna salvage a series when it's you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: a four game, it's the fourth game after losing the
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: first three, but you could feel pretty good going in
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: going back home with you know, all right, we got Jack,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: we out of w you know, let's move on here.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: You drop that too, I don't know, it's like another
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: added to the list of missed opportunities early in the year. Yeah.
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's actually a terrific point. Even if Jack
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: kind of gets stuff together and pitch as well this season,
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: if we're just being realistic, chances are that's gonna be
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: one of his ten best line scores all year. That's
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: a game you want to win and you didn't do it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: You can probably write off the Schoogle performance and the
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: Fromber performance.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: Is like probably one of their five worst.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: Starts they're going to have based on the track record
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: of those guys. But there's one of the reasons this
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: has been hard to know how to talk about missed opportunities.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: We've seen plenty of it. Sometimes it's been probably not
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: as bad as it feels in the moment, But last
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: time we recorded, I didn't really I was like, you know,
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: the Tigers might go put up ten runs and win
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: ten two and all these concerns areqwelled. Instead, you just
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: got swept by the Twins in April. And that's why
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: this is this is tough to navigate because even aj
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Hinschott said something to the effective like you can't just
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: keep shrugging and say, well, it's April. All these games
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: do count. Again, what's my weary level? Like I don't know,
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Like I think this is a good team, but these
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: games matter. Heck, playing the Twins, these are games you're
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: supposed to win to you know, to add to that
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: win tally early on. It does make me think back
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: a little bit to twenty twenty two, when expectations were
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: high now, they were probably higher than they should have been.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: We were all probably staking a little too much. And
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: Jonathan Scope and Robbie Grossman that team actually started six
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: and seven and then it just got really cold. And
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: if you recall AJ, probably people like us were saying, well,
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: you know, we have some guys with track records that
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: should get better, and it just never did. And then
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you were fourteen and twenty eight
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: on I think May twenty fourth, and the season was over,
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: Like it was pretty much over regardless of what you
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: did from there. So it is a reminder like should
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: we be panicking right now?
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: No?
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: But does this have to turn? Does do we talk
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: about seeing better signs? We have to both see better
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: signs and get some wins?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do kind of wonder where you draw that
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: line of like, Okay, this is actually very concerning. We're
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: not quite there yet, uh, but but we could be
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: if things don't change soon.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a there's a there's a couple areas that
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I could I could go, you know, based on what
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: you said there, Cody, and you know, one of them
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: that just gets, you know, it keeps coming back to me,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: is that we we're just witnessing like the worst visuals
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and optics that we've seen from this team. And you know,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: maybe I am prisoner the moment, but I never felt
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: this feeling at the second half of last year, during
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that collapse because nights, but because of the cushion built
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: in that, you know, you could always kind of selfish,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: you know, give yourself some self assurance here where it's like,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: all right, well, look, you know, still eleven game lead.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, still seven and a half game lead.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: You know that doesn't exist right now.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And what you have.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: What you have is you got people like our foul
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: territory colleague, Bob Nightingale after every loss being like the Tigers,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: heavy Ale central favorites, and I'm pretty close to direct
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: quoting here, heavy Ale Central favorites, lose blah blah blah.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Record is now this and now they're tied with the
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Mariners for the worst record in the American League.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Those are bad optics. This is a bad optic ball
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: club right now.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: And like, if you just want to take things from
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: this game, I don't know, how about the fact that
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: you get the second base each of the first four
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: innings and don't do squad. That would be a bad
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: That would be a bad optic for me. How about
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: you just can't get on the right side of an
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: ABS challenge, that would be a bad optic for me.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: All Right, the collision obviously a very bad optic. I
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: mean that's seriously like it did not look good. And
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: hopefully Parker's okay.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: But how about will Vest two?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Will best bad optics here? Number one Villo and we'll
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: talk about that in a second.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: But number two.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Royce Lewis, who is another one of those guys where
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: he's just like, please stay healthy because you're so much
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: fun to watch. It looks like he can't put any
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: weight on his leg. He tucks out at bat.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And what does he do.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: He puts it in play in the only fashion that
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: he could get on base with one leg. Yeah, a
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: little dribbler down the third base line. The cole Keith
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: has no play like that. Like, like, all these things
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: are just adding up against you right now, and you
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: have to be able to get out of this rut.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that's probably gonna help you
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: get out of the rut would be will Vest not
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: topping out at ninety four miles an hour. Now. Is
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: that because he was sick and he's still recovering and
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: all that stuff. That's probably and you know, obviously the
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: weather too, that's probably part of it.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Will. Yeah, Will had Vilo problems at the end of
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: last year. In my mind, he was he's better in
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: the postseason, but he was never quite the same after
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: that scare, whereas elbow went whatever. If you recall last
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: summer and you ended up being fine. But we haven't
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: really seen ninety eight to ninety nine's from Will vest
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: in a long time, which absolutely has me worried. Had
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: me a little bit worried coming in and then see
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: him come out and his fastball average is only ninety
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: three point eight, and he did get four whips with
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: the slider, but they got a couple of kind of
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: cheap hits on balls and play and one reason you
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: can't blow the fastball by guys like you like you
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: were this time a year ago.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that has me worried.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: And also probably the last last two things with like
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: just a bad optic going around, is that you know,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you have like coming into the game a four game
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: losing streak and now it's five hously, but coming into
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the game you have a four game losing streak. It's
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: a getaway to a game. I get this, got you
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: gotta rest guys, I get this. But it also, like
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: it was pointing out on Twitter by several people, like,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: you know, you're trying to get right, and you putake
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and you put out a lineup with your two best
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: hitters not in it. And again this is an oversimplification,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: but I could tell you it did not help things
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: both optically and on the field to have Dylan Dingler
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: and Kevin McGonagall not in the lineup. And he went
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: at at late in the game and that and you know,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: and and that's it, like like, I don't know, is
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: there a way to stagger that a little bit better?
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: I'm sure maybe. And then also AJ Hinch at one
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: point actually kind of did.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Like, uh, I hope you'll give me subscribe on YouTube
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you can see me do an impression of it where
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: he just kind of like, you know, looked up to
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the to the sky a little bit and he and
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: he didn't do the thing that some like people do, uh, but.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: He came just short of that.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And Aj normally knows that the camera is gonna be
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: on him at pretty much old times and doesn't let
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: out anything that was I would say something something of
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: a real emotion from aj Hinch.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: We don't get a lot. So for all the talk
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: of yes.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: It's you know, it's only April ninth or April tenth
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: when you're listening to this, like that's true. But here's
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: the thing. Nothing's a big deal right now until it
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: becomes a big deal. It could become a big deal
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: at any point. And that's kind of where we're at
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: That's also well said here, and yeah, it's not a
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: big deal until it is.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: You know, you.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Kind of have your your finger on that button and
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: it's like, well, how long do we wait to press it?
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: You know, when do we press the big deal button?
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: And I think that certainly applies for people in the media,
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: but I think that probably applies a little bit to
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: aj Hinch too, because it is telling he hasn't he
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: hasn't really shrugged these losses off. I don't think, just
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: going by his words, he's dropped the you know it's
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: a marathon not a sprint once maybe, but he has
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: kind of been like, yo, that that can't happen. He
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: said that two nights ago, he said The story is
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: not the comeback, you know, the story is he said
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: something effect of the fact they were in an eight
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: run hole to begin with. He's not really been shrugging
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: this off.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: I promise you. He is displeased at.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: The the brand of play, the fact that Tigers have
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: been sloppy, have left opportunities on the board. That that
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: will get to him more than you lose a tough
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: game in April. But the how things have looked, the
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: optics you're talking about, I'm pretty confident AJ is not
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: a fan of that. The lineup thing is interesting. AJ
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: tens to write out these lineups days in advance. So
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: this was part of the plan, right, Kevin McGonagall, Dylan Dingler,
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: they were always gonna get this day off. I assume
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: as a as a leader, that's kind of interesting. You know,
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: do you panic in April saying, oh, we can't get
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: swept by the Twins? I got it, I got Sorry
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: that lineup I sent you guys a few days ago. Nope,
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: tearing that up because that could signal panic to your players.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: At the same time, Yeah, having a rough series here,
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: you're sure you're gonna sit Dylan Dingler and Kevin McGonagall.
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: I don't know where I land on that one, like,
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: because I can really see both sides of that for sure.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: I mean I kind of.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Lean towards like if your.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Matra is essentially adjusting to the moves made on the chessboard.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know, dropping four in a row.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Feels like, uh, you know, if there was some sort
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: of like lane that you could make an adjustment for,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: this could be it. Now maybe I would lean more McGonagall. Yes,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: he's a rookie, and you don't want to like you know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: obviously you gotta be cautious with how how how how
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: you use him all that stuff, Like he's also twenty one,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: You gotta rest catchers a little bitt's play this guy.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, let's let's get McGonagall out there and just
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: like you know, you know, give him, you know, some
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: more opportunities and and and unfortunately Cody, like you know,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: we call this a rut, and I think it's certainly
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: felt like really ruttish when your star uh prize free
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: agent just gets sal acted and to his credit, he
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: last he like he was able to he didn't collapse
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: and like have to come out after the second ending
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: or whatever, like he he stuck it out so to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Fromber's credit, you know, he ends up you know, going
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: deeper into the game to kind of save the bullpen
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: taxing a little bit there, but obviously he was just
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: getting schleced.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Uh. You have this somewhat of a comeback.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Multiple multiple opportunities for Parker meadows, multiple opportunities for Kevin
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: McGonagall to kind of have some sort of like magic moment,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: and and and and you know the reason why you
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: would call him a magic moment is because they're somewhat rare,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: so therefore, like it can't happen all the time.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: These did not happen. Uh there and.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Back to back playoff, you know, appearances in the game
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: five the DS you're kind of old good buzz silver
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: sluggers and gold gloves and another Cy Young and oh
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: we got from Oh we got Verlander, like all these
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: goodbbe you know, hatty toddy stuff in the offseason, even
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: through spring training.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: No, it's all gone. And the mental this is pretty early.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I really did not think the mental toughness of this
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: team would be like like you could really test it
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and judge it.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: On April ninth, April tenth.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: But but I think we're there, and I and and
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: a six game homestand so I'm not just saying against Miami,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: but a six game homestand I think we're gonna learn
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: some things. I don't know, like we're gonna learn, We're
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: gonna learn, We're gonna learn some things about how they respond.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Because this is you know, to scale with expectations and hype.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: This is a this is everything looks There are a
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: lot of things that look putrid.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not wrong.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: I guess I'll go into some of the maybe reasons
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: for optimism. There are a lot of complaints about the
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: Tiger's offense right now, and a lot of that is
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: warn did I would say pitching has been as big,
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: if not a bigger issue to this point. And when
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: you look under the hood, which kind of Scott Harris
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: type word, but seriously, like not everything is as bad
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: as it feels or maybe as the results balls in
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: play have indicated with the Tigers. Let's start with this one.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: Runners in scoring position. Now, the Tigers were oh for
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: eleven with runners in scoring position against Minnesota, but entering
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: that game, you want to guess where they ranked in
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: the league with the runners in scoring position. First, they're
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: hitting three twenty with runners in scoring position. It's important
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: to remember that all at that's with the runners in
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: scoring position count. Just because Riley Green doesn't drive someone
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: in in the eighth or ninth doesn't mean they're terrible.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: Even Riley Green has fared well with runners in scoring
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: position both this year and for his career. He's a
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: two to seventy hitter with runners in scoring position, although
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: in leverage late in games last year he was he
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: was really bad. But entering Thursday's game best average in
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: the league with runners in scoring position. There's a really
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: nerdy stack called x wobacon. This one pushes my boundaries
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: even a little bit. Expected weighted on base average on contact. Basically,
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: it's a measure of like, how well are you hitting
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: the ball when you make contact? Is your quality of
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: contact good? And the answer for the Tigers is yes.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: They rank fifth in the league at least entering Thursday
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: in x wobacon. So again, it's not like we're seeing
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: a ton of ground at like dribblers, like maybe a
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: few too many lazy fly balls, but we've seen a
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: pretty good quality of contact. I would argue the biggest
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: issue for this offense has been the lack of home
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: run power.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: But gosh, col.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: Keith has had three balls that could have been homers
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: in a different part. Kevin mcgonagall's had a couple. Riley
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: Green smoked one that probably in a different time of
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: year as a homer Thursday at Target Field.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: So that's good.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: And then you're asking, Okay, what about when they don't
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: make contact entering Thursday? They actually were the only the
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: twentieth highest with rate. They're they're not actually whipping as
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: much as it might feel like at times, So there
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: are reasons to suggest and in addition to the fact
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: they they've had days where they've put up good run
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: totals and still lost reason to believe things can be
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: a little better with the offense than both at feels
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: and both at the actual results might indicate. Right now,
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: what was that sad ex whoba x Wobacon Wobacon I
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: need for the YouTube channel. We got to get you
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: to just like ask every single guy in that clubhouse,
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: can you explain to me ex wobcon. Oh, they very
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: few of them know, maybe like two of them know.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Most of them probably have no idea that even exists.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: Now the analysts and know it exists. Hey, hey, don't
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: weary euro for four today your ex Wobecon was off
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: the charts.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Just feeding for them for their arbitration hearings.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: Well, I know their agents know their ex Wolbicon and
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: I know Scott Harris is looking at the ex Wobegon So.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Oh man, Okay, that's funny. That's a funny thing to
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: kind of you know, wind down the pod with. But
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: a little newsy item that we didn't get to last time.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Cody was aj kind of talking about he's probably gonna
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: split Schoogle and Fromber from being back to back in
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the rotation, Uh, when he can. Obviously he didn't say
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: when that would be or you know whatever, but it's
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: something they'd probably look to do. Any thoughts on the
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: valid validity of doing that or.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: You know what do you? Or you know what do Yeah?
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it makes sense at first, you know,
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: when when they signed Fromber and people were asking about this,
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: I didn't get it. I was like, why not just
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: have them one two and just more people down, you know,
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: call it good win two games in a row in
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: a series, call it good. But I think when you
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: taking in the long view, it's it's probably more about
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: the bullpen. It's probably less about like, oh, hitter seeing
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: lefties on back to back days, Like, it's more about
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: how you can use the bullpen, because against Fromber and Trek,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: you're gonna see lineups that are pretty right handed heavy,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: which probably means you're taxing your right handed relievers in theory.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: In theory, you want to be winning on those days,
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: so you might be rolling out will Vest, Kyle Finnegan,
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: you know, back to back days, and if you space
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: them out, maybe you can do that a little bit differently.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: If you space them out, and assuming you're winning the
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: Fromber and Trek starts, it could even mean, you know,
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: you're able to work different relievers, middle relievers, left handed
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: relievers on that day in between. So I think that's
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: why the Tigers would do it. It actually be more
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: about bullpen usage.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, real big picture stuff basically, that makes sense. Yeah,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: that makes that makes a ton of sense.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: And the playoff, I want them back to back and
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: just mowing people down. I guess you had you got
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: to start winning some games for before we ahead of
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: ourselves here.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, let's uh, let's not count any chickens before
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: they hatch, when the when the team is four and nine,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: and I got.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: I did, I did a whole Oh go ahead, here
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: the text.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, I get text for peoples by you know,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: trying to troll me. It's like, oh, might want to
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: just like cancel the season, and then I and then
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: it forces me to be the adult when sometimes I
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: don't want to be the adult. Cody something right, That's
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: how I feel in the moment. But when I get
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: trolled like that, I gotta you know, I got, I got.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I gotta be real, you know what I'm saying.
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: So Yeah, I just did a whole mail bag on
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: the athletic and I got a ton of questions about
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Riley Green and Spencer Twirklesen. And it's funny because I
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: feel like those are the two guys I've probably gotten
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: the most like heat four if I'm like critical about
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: really two guys I've probably never been able to talk about,
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: like someone's always gonna be mad no matter how you
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: talk about them. Hell, remember in spring training we had
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: a long new one It's Riley Green discussion and people
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: were like pissed at us. And now I got people
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: like wanting to fire Riley Green into the sun, and
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: I was like, this guy's a now I sound like
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: aj Hinch, Like, well, he's a two time All Star,
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: Like he is a pretty good player. And I think
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: that's where we've arrived in that like Riley and towerk
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: are good players. Probably every team except maybe the Dodgers,
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: because they're so good, would want them, would be happy
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: to have them on their roster. But they are flawed,
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: they are imperfect. They are probably both victims of expectations
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: and in a way their own successes. These were guys
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: who were touted, who were supposed to carry the franchise,
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: had varying degrees of success very early in their careers,
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: and now it's like, well, okay, are either of them
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: going to the Hall of Fame. Chances that are pretty slim,
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: and like so when they have bad at bats, or
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: they straight out, or they get off to cold stars
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: and the team is four and nine, they get in
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: the crosshairs man, And I almost some of it's deserved
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: because they they're not performing. Riley in particular is barely
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: hitting over two hundred since July second of last year.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: So we're not talking about a small sample it's not good,
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: but like the idea that you need to blow up
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: the core, like move on from right. I'm getting questions
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: about trading Spencer Torklesen thirteen games in the season. It's
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: like that that's probably a little much.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: So I don't know.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: I struggled doing that mailbag. If maybe I wrote something
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: stupid in there. Maybe I'm saying something stupid. Now this
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: is again, this is Baseball in April for you.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Headline Tiger's beat writer says chances are quote Slim Torkalsen
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: will be a Hall of Famer.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: You get ripped for that? Is that a hot take?
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: The way I'll say it is, there are a lot
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: of things.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I've been followed this team closely for the past several years,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and like, you know, really really invested in trying to
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: know as much as I can about this team and
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: the coaches and all that stuff. There are certain things
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: that I think I know, and I would just like
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: those things to be shown out on April tenth, because
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of them have not shown out for me,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: and so I have to start questioning what I think
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I know, and I like to.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I would prefer not to do that, all right, You can.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: I think things very well in this episode. Care I
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: think you have Thank.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: You, thank you, thank you.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: You can follow us on next Fully Known on Twitter
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: at Cody Stavenhagen, I'm at Kieran Underscore Secty pod page
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: at Tiger Territory Underscore YouTube, Instagram, Apple, Spotify, you guys.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Know the deal.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: We appreciate all of you, so for Cody Stavenhagen, I'm
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Kian Steckley.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Everybody have great deck,