Latest / Beautifully Complex / 378: Body Image, Comparison and Self-Image in Girls, with Erin Washington

Transcript

378: Body Image, Comparison and Self-Image in Girls, with Erin Washington · Beautifully Complex

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Somewhere behind every daughter scrolling Instagram is a mother who
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: grew up on magazine models, and most of us never
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: stop to ask how much of our own body image
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: baggage are we quietly handing down to them? Today, I'm
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: talking with Erin Washington, author and founder of the Blue
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Butterfly Foundation, about the eating disorder she hid for 20 years,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: the moment she realized her mom's diet talk became her
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: own inner voice, and the small shifts that actually change
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: what our kids absorb about their bodies. I'm Penny Williams,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and this is Beautifully Complex. Hey everyone, I'm so glad
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: that you have joined us today for this conversation. We
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: are going to talk about body image, self-image, being the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: mom of girls, and what.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Sort of representations and habits and thoughts that we are
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: putting on them, even if we don't mean to. And
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I have Erin Washington here joining me to have this discussion.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: We're going to get deep into it, all the things
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: that we, I think, both have struggled with as well,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: and really try to help some parents to step back
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit. I had to take a deep breath
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: for that one because I get stuck in it too. Erin,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: will you start though? Let everybody know who you are,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: what you do, your foundation, the book, all the good stuff.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: First of all, thank you for having me. This is
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: my favorite thing in the world to talk about. It's
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: so important. I struggled for 20 years with body image,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: having no self-worth, comparing myself to other people. And I
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: always say my stuff kind of stemmed from soccer. It
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: was my identity. I played since I was four. In
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: high school, you know, I started varsity as a freshman.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: We were back-to-back state champions. And somehow I just found
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: my value as a soccer player. I played Division I
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: soccer in college and just put everything into it. And
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: the body stuff, I would hide in soccer. In high school,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I was severely anorexic. And I would just make it,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I was fit and fast for soccer. And
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: when a coach finally called me on it and was like,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: your crosses aren't as strong anymore. You're losing all the
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: strength in your legs. my eating disorder evolved to exercise bulimia.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: And this is something that I feel like a lot
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: of women do, and they don't realize it is an
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: eating disorder, kind of canceling out what you eat with exercise.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: But mine was so severe, Penny, that I would jot
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: down every calorie I ate. I would go on this
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: elliptical in my parents' basement and work it off. So
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I could show my coach I'm eating, but I was
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: working off every calorie. That continued into my college soccer career.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: And then midway through my sophomore year in college, I
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: wasn't playing. And I wasn't used to that. I never
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: really came off the field and kind of on a
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: whim decided, you know, I quit. This isn't fair. And
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: that is when I realized how much it was my
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: value and my identity. And I fell into a deep depression.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: That's when bulimia came on. And I always say, if
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: there is a child in your life that is putting
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: everything into one thing and seeing their value as that,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: you have to make sure that they see value in
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: something else. Maybe it is a sport. Or like my
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: daughter's a competitive cheerleader and that's her whole life. And
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: one day that's not going to be in your life anymore.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And if that's how they see their value, it could
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: be a slippery slope to an eating disorder. I also
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: say I was the oldest of four girls, complete stereotypical
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: firstborn perfectionist. And my mom wasn't worried about me. Like my,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: my sisters would come home if they had like a
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: C on a test. It was like, Hey, what were
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: you doing? I always had straight A's. There was a
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: time I had a geometry teacher that would let you
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: retake quizzes. And if I got an A minus penny,
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I would wake up early and go back and get
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: the A. And it didn't like, my sisters would be like,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: what are you doing? And I'm like, you can get
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: the A if you just wake up early. And they
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: were like, we got a B. Why would I, I
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: was just wired differently. But I say that to say that,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: If there's a child that you're like, oh, no, not
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: that one. This one, she's so driven. That's the one
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: you need to watch because that driven perfectionist personality, straight A's,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: can take a left into something dangerous like an eating disorder.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: We all grew up in the same house. We all
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: played Division I soccer, and no one struggled like I did.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: So I would say if you have a kid that
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: is the perfectionist and you're like, oh, I don't have
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: to worry about her. Her grades are great. That's the
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: one you do have to worry about. Yeah. I struggled
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: with body image and the actual eating disorders. And then
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: when I came out of my eating disorder mess, it
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: was right when I met my husband who was, I've
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: unpacked through therapy, shiny. He was in the NFL and
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: it validated me that I was his pick and I
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of confidence. So I was just
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: kind of on his arm, kind of finding myself and
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: had two kids, kind of got my body image noise
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: off of me. And we can get into exactly how
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I did that. But long story short, I wrote a
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: book And in the book, I decided to share about
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: my eating disorders. I cultivated a community of other women
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: that were like me too, and I've never told anyone else.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And that went further into a podcast. I was going
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: live talking about momming in a pandemic in 2020, and
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: a radio station producer gave me a podcast. Then I
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: wrote another book and started a foundation for teen girls
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: struggling with self-image and body image self-worth. And it all
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: kind of evolved from me unpacking something dark that was
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: in my past. So now I talk to women about
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: finding something that lights them up and getting out of
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: the mess and the struggle that they may have lived
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: with for decades and how to model positive body image
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: for your kids and have a new book out to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: kind of lay that foundation earlier in their lives. Yeah.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: It's something that I really struggled with growing up. I
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: was coming up late 80s, early 90s, all the magazines, right?
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: All those super skinny girls. And I also have social anxiety.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: So I have this perpetual narrative in my head that
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not good enough and everyone's judging me, right? So
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I was really focused on that body image. It felt
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: so incredibly important to me. And in that teen mindset,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know that anybody could talk to me out
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: of it, right? Like, I don't, how do we talk
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: to our girls in ways that are going to help
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: them feel different about it?
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: It's like we practiced that and we did not. That
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: is exactly what my foundation does because it's the same thing.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I would not talk to my mom. And it's like,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I can give you all these things. Say this. I
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: was super defensive. I was 16. I was super skinny
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: and my mom could see it. And she was like,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: I want to help you. But I was like, you
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: don't get it. And she'd be like, you're beautiful. And
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you're my mom. You have to say that.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: So I created, it's called Blue Butterfly Foundation, where women
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: who have been through that exact thing, we're like mentors.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: We come back and at our events, we share our stories.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I talk about body image and eating disorder recovery. It
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: goes further into like toxic relationships, sexual identity, anything that
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: a teen girl feels alone or shame about and she's
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: not willing to talk to someone else. There is a
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: woman in our foundation who has been through that. And
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I would have talked to me, a 44-year-old woman that
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: came back and was like, hey, me too. I know
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: exactly what you mean. I wasn't going to therapy and
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I'm a big proponent of therapy. There was a part
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: of my life, the bulimia was almost 10 years and
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: I could not get a hold of it. And when
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I would consider talking to somebody about it, I pictured
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: a man with a clipboard, like, tell me about your
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: eating disorder. And I'd be like, you don't get it.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: So Blue Butterfly Foundation provides mentorships for women who have
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: been through that exact thing. And I'm telling you, it
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: is magic. They come in kind of hot and kind
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: of like, what is this? And you just see their
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: guards go down as we share our stories first. And
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: then we kind of go into like smaller groups and
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: you can see the girls gravitate to the person whose
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: story kind of impacted them more. And they come to
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: the smaller group with that person. We share, then we
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: go back to the big group and share anything that
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: came out in the little group and people are crying
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and it's just raw. And sometimes if it's the younger girls,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: like 12 or 13, their moms come and they have
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: had these profound moments. Like I remember one girl, she
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: was like, mom, her mom kept going, I don't know
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: how to talk to you. It was the same question
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: that you had, like, you won't open up. And the
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: girl was like, mom, if you just said to me,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: sometimes I don't know what I'm doing. I've never been
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: a mom before. Then I would like, feel like, okay.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: And it feel like, you know, she, she's doing her best.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: And all the moms were all looking at each other like, Oh,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: like we're like learning things. So I'll say that to
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: my daughter. I'm like, Amaya, I've never been a mom before.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: I'm doing my best. She's like, oh, mommy, but I
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: got that from a girl. So it's just like this.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I created something that I felt like I could have
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: used when I was in the mess. And now it
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: does exist. I think just to answer your question, if
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: you're not at a Blue Butterfly event, just that like
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: opening up, like I get it. Like you've been there.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I struggled too. And we always try to like, present
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that we have it all together. Now we're the mom,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: but it's like my most eyeopening and like best conversations
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: with my 10 year old is me kind of doing that.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Like I've never been a mom and I, Oh my God,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: that's so hard. Like I remember middle school and just
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: kind of like putting humanizing yourself as like a, you're
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: a person, you're not just a mom. You've been through
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: it too. It's like, they'll kind of see themselves in
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: you and not like you have all the answers, but
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: kind of putting yourself on their level. And in therapy,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: it's always like validate, validate, which is like, this girl
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: was so mean to me. And she said this and
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, that wasn't that me. But I'm like, oh,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: my God, that must have really hurt your feelings. And
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: she's like, right. And she'll come and sit. You validate.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: You say it back. That's kind of like what I do.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: But she's only 10. But my older ones, finding a
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: mentor that's not you. And it's hard because you want
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: to be the person. But I remember I did it
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: with my mom. Like, they're going to get defensive. They're
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: going to think you're just saying it because they're your mom.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: So find a mentor, maybe one of your friends that
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: has gone through a similar thing. And they may be
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: more open to talking to them about it. As much
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: as that hurts your feelings. because i get it um
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be like a professional but just
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: someone else to just be like oh my my best
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: friends struggle with that let them kind of develop a
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: relationship with them and maybe they'd be more open to
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: talk to someone that they feel seen by because they've
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: been through it too.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah We suffer in silence. Why do we do that?
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: We really do keep things in. We don't tell people
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: what it's going on inside because, yeah, we think.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: We think we're the only one. And let me tell you,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: the thing that you're shameful about, I wonder what my
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: life would be right now had I not shared my
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: most shameful thing. And it was pulled out of me, Penny.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I was writing my first book. It was called Squats
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: and Margaritas. And I was talking about how I finally
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: changed my body and it's not about restriction and have
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: your indulgence every day. And I'm holding a barbell and
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: a margarita. And I remember telling the writing coach, I
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: was like, I just want to help women. I figured
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: out what to do. And she was like, are you
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a trainer? Are you a nutritionist? And I'm like, no.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: And she's like, well, you have no credibility. Why would
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: anybody buy this book? Like if you have a story
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: of how you got there. And I remember Penny, I
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: was like, absolutely not. I mean, I was homecoming queen.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: I was prom queen. I was captain of the soccer team.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I could have gone to my grave, like exuding this
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: like perfect personality. Nobody knew what I was doing to
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: uphold all those titles, but I shared it. She made me,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: she was like, write it. And I'm telling you that
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: heavy thing that you're feeling shame about. First of all,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: you are so not alone. Everyone struggles. Like you said,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: not everyone says it out loud. And second of all,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: it's only heavy and shameful because it's in the dark.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I have casually mentioned bulimia multiple times already because it
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: doesn't have that power over me anymore. When it was
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: a secret, I wasn't going to tell anybody. Once you
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: get it off of you, it really does lose that power.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: The amount of DMs that I got of women saying,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: me too. I haven't even told my husband. And it's
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: kind of just because I went first. And now it's
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: off of me. And had I not shared that, I mean,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: once that was off, it was like the rest of
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: my purpose opened up. A foundation, a podcast, a second book.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: And I know now that I'm here to share vulnerable
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: conversations and inspire women. But I only found this by
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: sharing that dark thing. So anyone who is listening right now,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I will give you a hint. It's whatever you've been
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: thinking of when I was talking. That's the thing. You know,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: you're thinking of it. You don't have to write a book,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: but write it and journal it. Tell your husband, get
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: it off of you. And it's like the rest of
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: your life just opens up once that is off. And
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: your purpose may be in that dark, shameful thing that
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: you're never going to tell anyone. And it's only going
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: to be lighter and off you once you do. Yeah.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: It's so transformative just to share, even if you're sharing
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: it with a piece of paper, right? Even if you're
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: sharing it, you're getting it out. And it can be
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: such a relief. Yeah. And we all have stuff. Like,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I am a huge proponent of being a human in
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: front of your kids. Because when we just show this
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: perfect self that doesn't really exist anyway, what are we
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: telling them? They have to be perfect. And they can't
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: be because none of us can.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: And we're just setting them up to feel bad about themselves.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, look, this is what I did when
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I was a teen. This is what I did in college.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: These are the things. And I'm not telling you whether
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: to do them or not, but here's my story, right?
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: And it made such a difference versus the way I
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: was parented where my parents really looked like they had
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: it all together and all figured out. Of course they didn't,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know that as a kid, right? And
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: so we have to be so much more transparent about.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: It humanizes you. They're like, oh, she gets it. I think,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've never been diagnosed, but I have some
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: gnarly OCD tendencies and like, I'm always cleaning and cleaning
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: stuff up and I convince myself that if things are
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: cleaned up and like tidy around me, then I can
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: lock in with my kids. So it's always like this
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: noble thing that I'm doing. All they see is mommy's
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: cleaning and not sitting with us. And I would never
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: want my kids to live like I am. So I
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: am so on top of it now when I catch
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: myself doing it. And my daughter, one time she was like, mommy,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I'm ready for bed. And I always like go up
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: and do like back tickles. And I was like, okay,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: one second. And I see myself. I had a bucket.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I'm doing all the things. She goes, mommy, could you
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: do that later and put me to bed now? And
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I dropped the bucket. And I was like, yes. Because
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: while it's this noble thing that I'm thinking, if this
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: is off my brain, I can really lock in with
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: her and do the bedtime routine. She sees I'm asking
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: to go to bed and my mom is choosing to
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: clean up instead of go with me. And it was
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: like such an eye-raising moment. I was like, oh my gosh, yes.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: She sees it and I would never want her to
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: feel like she can't talk to her kids until she
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: gets her house cleaned up. And that's what I'm modeling.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: So I have to be better about it. And catching
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: it is the first step. I'm not perfect, but I
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: will see myself. I'm like, no, you're cleaning up. Sit down.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: No one cares if there's dishes in your sink, but
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: those two kids care that you're sitting and snuggling and
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: watching a movie with them. And they see you cleaning instead.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They interpret things in ways that we don't expect.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: And while you think you're taking great care of them
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: because you're cleaning up, They're over there sitting going, she
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: would rather clean up than be with me. I don't
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: know what you're saying, but that's how they take it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Like, I'm trying to not think about this mess so
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: we can. And they're like, no, we're watching a movie.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: You're choosing to wipe down the counters. And it makes sense.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: That's what they're seeing. They don't know what's going on
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: in this brain and how I have to get it
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: off of me. It's ridiculous. No one's holding me to
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: know the house must be clean before you take the
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: kids up for a bed. Something that I do that
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I'm working on, but I don't want them to ever
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: think that I'm choosing to use my time to clean
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: the kitchen when I could be with them. And that's
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: what they see.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, we were talking before
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: we started recording, I know that I put a lot
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: of my own body image stuff on my own daughter,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and I didn't intend to, certainly. But I also wasn't
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: aware enough and I wasn't catching it. And I wonder
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: if you have some words of wisdom around how do
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: you sort of go backwards? How do you repair something
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: that you may have already inadvertently done?
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know about repair, but I would say just
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: being on top of it now, moving forward. I mean,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: we can't go back. I have done the things that
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I speak on. I've done all of those things. But
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: my main thing, my mom always told me you're so
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: beautiful and strong and all these things. But she was
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: in the mirror like, oh, I got to lose 10 pounds.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So all I'm seeing is what she was telling herself.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: She was the model of what I would grow up
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: to be like the same sex parent. You know, my
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: son's going to watch my husband and my daughter's going
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: to watch me. I think moms get that part, right?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: They're like, no, no, no. She knows. I always tell
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: her how beautiful she is, but she's watching you. So
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: it's what you're saying to yourself. I always say, if
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't say it to your daughter, stop saying it
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: to yourself. If there is a scale in your house
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: and there is a little person watching you get on
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: a machine every day and your reaction, I'll be at
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: like happy, like, yes, or, uh, All that is showing
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: your child is we get it on a little machine
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: and that tells us if we're happy or sad each day.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: What our worth is.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Yes. They're like, oh, I was happy. We wake up. Oh, no,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: it's a bad day because we step on the machine
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: and that tells us. Every time there was a big event,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: a wedding, a vacation, my mom had to go on
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a diet. She's like, oh, we have this thing coming up.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I can't eat that. All that showed me is that
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: her body, as it was, wasn't worthy enough to attend
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: this event. It had to be smaller. And it's just
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: what I knew and what she knew. She was always
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: on some sort of diet and it's just showing them
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: that like, you're not good enough how you are. You
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: have to be skinnier. So it's what you're modeling. It's
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: not what you're saying to them. There are little things
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: like when they're a little bit younger and I used
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: to do it when my daughter would be like, can
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I be done? They still say it. Can I be done?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: What a beautiful, like what's the word? Intuitive, they're just being,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: they're eating intuitively. They're getting a fullness cue. Can I
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: be done? My knee jerk reaction was no clean your plate.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Cause that's what I got. Clean your plate. Then you
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: can be done, but they are eating intuitively. So they're
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: getting a fullness cue. I'm telling no, ignore that. Eat
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: till everything's gone. And then you can take it a
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: step further to earn a treat. My daughter is all
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: about sweets. So she will clean her plate to earn
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: a reward. So I don't put food on a pedestal
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: to be earned. Food is fuel. That's it, it's not good,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: it's not bad. I always use this, a Chick-fil-A cookie
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: is the size of your face, if you could picture that.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: My daughter said, can I have the whole thing? And
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't wanna be like, no, it's bad for you.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I said, you can, but how do you think that
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: would make your tummy feel? So that's like what we
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: go with now. She said, good, she ate it, she
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: was sick. And so now she remembers that. I didn't
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: say it was bad, but it's like, how do you think,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know how that'll make your tummy feel. So
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I always say that. I don't make them clean their plate.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I don't make them earn a treat if it's, If
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: they do want to earn something, like I clean my plate,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: give them screen time. They can play 10 more minutes outside.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: My son's all about the Robux and Roblox. Like food
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: is not something to be earned. Food is not something
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: up on a pedestal, good or bad. Food is fuel.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: So I don't make them clean their plates. I ask
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: them how they think they'll make their tummy feel. And
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: then I, this is how I feel about foods that,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: and again, I don't say good or bad, but foods
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: that maybe you don't want them to eat all the time.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: We'll say treats. They are in my house and it
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: normalizes it. And I've seen with my kids, if I
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: make it off limits, that's all they want. And so
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: it's like, if they go to their friend's house, they're like,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: oh my God, Doritos or a drumstick. And then they
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: binge because it's this thing that they're not around. We
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: have ice cream. that can have a drumstick or a
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: popsicle every night. There's no need to binge or eat
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: a whole box because it's something that's available to them
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: and they don't have to earn. I just, food is neutral,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: not good or bad, never something to be earned. Food
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: is fuel. And I use, how does that make your
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: tummy feel? And then it's just modeling. No, we're not
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: going on a diet. If you want to move, it's
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: all about moving your body, not losing weight. We can
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: go for a walk to move our bodies to feel good,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: but not modeling the behaviors that you need to be
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: smaller or your day is ruined or a great day
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: because of what a number on a scale showed you.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: And those are all things that you're not thinking about.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: You're thinking about, no, I have to tell them they're beautiful.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: You don't need a scale. You don't need... They're watching you.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: One more thing is the physical compliments and always saying
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: you look so beautiful. You look so beautiful. There's going
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: to be a day that they don't wake up and
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: feel beautiful. And if that's how they see their value,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: then they're not going to have a good day. So
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I try not to use physical compliments. I always tell
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: my daughter she's so strong and kind and she's such
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: a good friend. So those would be my tips on
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: body image. And again, it's not all what you're saying
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: to them. It's how you're talking to yourself in the mirror.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: They're watching you. Yeah.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: And they feel that energy. They're taking that energy in.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: You don't even have to say anything, but they will
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: feel what you're feeling and they can get it from that.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So it's about more than just the words too, right?
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I said, we've talked off camera. I had to
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: check my mom a couple of days ago. We're riding
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: in the car and she's like, oh, nothing fits. I've
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: gained like six pounds. I was like, ah, and she's like, oh, sorry.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Like they were raised in a different time. And I remember,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I remember earlier, like two minutes ago when you said,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: We have the magazines. Penny, that's all we had were
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: the magazines at the grocery store. Can you imagine what
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: these poor teen girls have to deal with now? The
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: way that we both struggled with comparison and they have
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: social media and they're scrolling and seeing someone's highlight reel
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: that is doctored and edited. And I always say the
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: picture that is ruining your day because you don't look
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: like her. She's sitting in a window. Right now I'm
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: doing it. She's sitting in a window with like perfect lighting.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: She's contorting her body in a certain way. There are
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: nine other pictures in her camera roll where her body
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: doesn't look like that. and she's posting the one and
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: that's going to ruin your day. It's like unfollow. If
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: there is an account that's triggering you or making you
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: feel less than like, that's what we say at blue butterfly.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: We tell the girls it's not real. No one is
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: going to go to Instagram and post a picture that
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: they don't feel like it's flattering. So you're only seeing
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: their highlight reel. And they're again, their body is only
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: like that because they're holding it in a certain way
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: and you, it's not real. And they're just bombarded with
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: comparison and social media. And so We, just knowing how
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: much we struggled, can you imagine?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I know. I talk all the time. Like, thank goodness.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Can I share a quick story of what I saw? Okay.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: I was on a flight. I will never say who
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: it was because the poor girl, I feel bad for her.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Reality star, we'll call her. But I'm telling you, Penny,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: this was a thin, thin woman. She's sitting in a
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: row where nobody else is with her, but I'm behind
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: and I can see through the seat. So this is
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: 10 years ago. I wrote the story in my first book.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was, but now I know
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: it to be Facetune, the app that she had. She
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: is doctoring a picture of herself in a bikini. I
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: will say it again, Penny. This was a thin woman.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: And she was kind of blowing up her leg a
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: little bit so she could shave off a little bit
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: of her thigh. She shaved off a little bit of
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: her arm. penny. I'm through the seat. Like she's going
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: to post it. She's going to post this. And she
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: doesn't know that anybody's watching. So I get her name.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I see the picture. She posts it. I remember I
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: got 119,000 likes. Obviously the first problem is who we
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: just talked about, this little 16 year old girl that's
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: scrolling and saying, if I could just starve myself a
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: little bit more, I could have these legs. She didn't
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: have those legs. I watched her erase. You're comparing yourself
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: to something that's not real. And the second part, Penny,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: that's so sad, this very thin woman was not confident
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: enough to post a picture of her own body without
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: tweaking it. So everything about it was the saddest thing
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I've ever seen. She passed, like posted for validation. Like,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: look how thin I am. Wasn't real. Watched her do it.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: So any picture or account that is triggering you, it's
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: not real. It's somebody's highlight reel. No one's going to
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: post a picture that they don't feel their best in.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: So don't let that ruin your day. Like social media,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: if that is triggering you, I know it's so hard.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Everybody has it, but like unfollow the accounts that are
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: making you feel less than I'm telling you, it's not real.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I watched it happen in real time. And she wasn't
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: confident either. Like, it's just so sad all around. It
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: was the saddest thing I've ever seen.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: An unconfident person doctoring their photo and posting it is
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: creating a whole bunch more unconfident people, right? Like, it's
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: just contagious. It spreads.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Yes. And you're comparing, like, I can look like that. Like, look,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: this is possible. That wasn't real. And that is making
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: somebody else starve themselves. It's the whole thing. it's so
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: disappointing that people can, but again, she needed the validation
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: and didn't feel like she would be validated unless she
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: was smaller. It's just, it's, it's so toxic. Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: And so we need to teach our girls, right? That
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: if something doesn't make them feel good, it's not about them.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: They just need to stop looking at it, right? Like
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: if you're consuming something that makes you feel bad about yourself,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: stop consuming that thing. I did that a few years ago.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I just unfollowed a whole bunch of stuff that every
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: time I looked at it, it wasn't necessarily body image
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: or anything in particular. I was just like, every time
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I see this, it makes me feel bad about myself
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: in some way or another. And I just cleaned it up.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And I started following more body positive people. And it
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: just made such a big difference. I think it's a
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: lot harder to get our younger people, our youth, our
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: kids to do that. but it really can change how
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: they feel. So if you can model, I don't know
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: if you sit down with your daughter and be like,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I'm combing through my Instagram. I'm going to unfollow everything
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: that makes me feel bad about myself and just be open.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe that'll help them to at least consider it.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Yes. Be the model for it. I love that. And
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, what a introduction. I just I have a son,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: but he heard me do a TV interview the other day.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I wrote it for my daughter.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: And he was like, hey. And we were kind of
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: talking off camera. I was like, bud, you never question.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: My daughter would come every day. Nobody's ponytail is like this.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: And when am I going to have skin like yours?
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, Amaya, nobody is supposed to be like
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: anyone else. Like, She couldn't understand. She had asked me
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: once when her skin was going to be like mommy's
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: because I'm her mom. And I said, everyone's a little
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: bit like their mom and a little bit like their dad.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And when you lay that foundation early that you're not
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: supposed to look like anyone else, it was honestly, Penny,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: like she'd never considered that. And I was like, daddy
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: has dark skin. I have light skin. You and your
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: brother are right in the middle. She was like, huh?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And she's like, but I'm so much taller. And I said,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: you are supposed to be exactly like this. And she'd
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: be like, this girl has a straight ponytail. Her mom
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: has a straight ponytail. And we just kind of broke
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: it down. And honestly, when I tried to find a
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: book to back me up, there wasn't a book that
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: explains to young kids why they are like they are.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: And again, with mine, it was being biracial. And I said,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: she's five, seven, and she's 10. So she's the size
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: of the teacher. Yeah. So she doesn't look like anyone
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: around her, but I kept saying, you are not supposed
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: to look like anyone else. You are supposed to look
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: like you. And I'm just like me downloaded into my brain.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Like every stanza rhymed. I felt like I was just
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: like a vessel. This is my third book, but it
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: was the easiest to write. It just came through me
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: and I put her on the cover. And I would
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: say for like kindergarten, first grade, it's like an easy read,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: but it sets a foundation. It shows lots of different
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: kids represented and it shows a family, how everybody's like
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: a little bit like their mom, a little bit like
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: their dad. And once you lay the foundation that you're
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: not supposed to look like anyone else, there's no reason
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: to compare. Yeah, she looks that way. She's just a
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: little bit like her mom, a little bit like her dad.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: And it just kind of clicked for them. So I
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: was like, I have to write this book and I
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: want it in every child's hands at an early age
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: just to set the foundation. Yes, you're not. That's the point.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: But she's got this hair. She's supposed to have this hair.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: It was like she just stopped questioning when somebody finally
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: told her, no one's supposed to be like anybody else.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I read the book this morning, and the first thing
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I thought was, why didn't anybody tell me that as
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: a kid? I just got goosebumps. Why didn't anybody tell me?
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I know. What a relief that would have been. And
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: maybe I would have believed them, or maybe I wouldn't have.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: But if I kept getting that narrative... it would have
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: changed a lot. But it was a different time and
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: all these things, right? Like, it is what it is.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not, but, like, doing that for our kids now.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: It's here now. And I believe, so I, full disclosure,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: I'm going through a divorce. And, I've been with their dad.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: We're so married. I've been with their dad for 22 years.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: And yes, you could say like our marriage didn't work out,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: but I believe I was supposed to meet their father
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: to have these children, to have them ask me these
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: questions and put this book into the world. And this
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: is my life's work is to write this book and
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: have this daughter come home and say, my ponytail's not
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: like anybody else. And why is my skin not like yours?
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: And I was supposed to have these children. So it
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: like kind of justifies my marriage and, Every journey that
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I've been through with my body, because I always compared.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I always go on a tangent, but the
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Disney princesses when I grew up, I never had to
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: question that something that was beautiful and valuable in my
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: eyes as a little girl, like they look like me.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: So I would never think that I wasn't beautiful. But
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: had my daughter grown up in that era and seen
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: those princesses with all light skin and straight hair, she
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: would have been like, that's beautiful. I don't look like that.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not beautiful. So now there's Moana, who my daughter
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: looks exactly like, and Tiana and Mulan. So we have
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: had representation there, but... It's so important for kids to
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: see kids that look like them or people that look
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: like them doing what they think is valuable or what
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: they want to achieve. Everybody says doctor, like if a
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: doctor is always portrayed as a middle-aged white man, then
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: my biracial daughter is going to be like, I can't
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: be a doctor, but I've seen a nurse that looks
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: like me or a pilot. I was flying recently and
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I said, I've never seen a female pilot with dark
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: skin and curly hair. So my daughter, if she wanted
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: to be a pilot, she'd be like, well, I could
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: be a flight attendant because I've seen that. Can't be
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: a pilot. Pilots are boys. They have to see what's possible.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: So I have every child represented in the book and
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: anything that they see is valuable and important. They have
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: to see someone like them doing it. And I never
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: had to consider that. until I had my daughter because
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I was a white girl growing up and I never,
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: why would I ever consider that people didn't look like me,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: but she would have. And I know I was supposed
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: to have this daughter to like have me examine things
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: and like look at these questions and write a book
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: that lays this foundation. So I'm so glad that you
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: felt that way about it. You gave me full body
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: goosebumps and we didn't have the book, but it's here now. Yes.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Yes. And I was just imagining as you were talking,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: like if you have the means to buy a couple
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and take them to your kid's school and put them
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: in the kindergarten classrooms or something. Like every kid needs
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to feel represented and to feel like they're not supposed
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: to be like anybody else.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: That's the point. You're supposed to be like this. Somebody
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: said that ponytail has been in the works through all
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: these generations. Your ponytail is supposed to look just like this.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: And I've taken it to all the libraries and I'm
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: reading it at schools. That would be what I also
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: think is like a baby shower book. Does the family have,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I'm just like me yet, like get it on a bookshelf.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: And you know, if they have older kids, I just
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: want it to be like just the framework that everybody
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: has this on their shelf. They read it when they're,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: as soon as they start to learn to read. And
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: it's just, there's no point in comparing. You're exactly the
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: way you're supposed to be.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I love it. I love it so much.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I love it so much. Yeah. And little me is like, oh, okay.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: You know, like that little kid inside or that teen
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: inside who still comes out with lots of um, worry
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: about comparing and, you know, how I come across to
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: other people. Like, that just felt like a little bit
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: of relief to be like, oh yeah, I am who
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be. And I believe that in every way, like,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: except for the body image things. I'm still stuck there
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: in all transparency.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: But I'm working on it.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you, this is not a body image, like, podcast,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: but I'm telling you, my body went to a set
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: point that I have been able to maintain and since
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: my son, eight years, when I stopped stressing about it.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: And I know that sounds so easier said than done,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: but I'm telling you, I've had so many people on
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: my podcast say the same thing. When I lived in
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: restriction and deprivation and calorie counting and pulling up menus
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: before I went to restaurant and comparing my arms to
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: everyone in the room, when I stopped that, it kind of,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I don't want to make, it's not about a weight loss,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: but it's ironic that it was like, it fell off.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: You are living in such a state of stress by
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: all the calculations and living in restriction in the pursuit
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: of this valiant effort to like have this ideal body,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: the pursuit is working against you. And it's like, that's
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: what my first book is about. It's like everything that
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: we're taught, calories in versus calories out. I was working
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: out two days, excuse me, two times a day, barely eating.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: And my body was holding on to every calorie I
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: put in because it didn't trust me. When I calmed,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I always say calm the F down. I stopped stressing.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: And it was like, I had two kids. I didn't
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: really have time to like, just focus on it. My
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: body started trusting me again and it started working again.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: So anybody that is still in the mess, I'm telling you,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: you're stressing your body. Your body doesn't trust you. You
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: just have to eat when you're hungry, eat every couple
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: of hours and fuel it, move your body. Don't punish it.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Stop running. I was running for PRs for no reason.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I wasn't running a marathon. I was just punishing my
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: body because that's what you do. Now I go for walks.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: And my body has gone to a set point that
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: is so easy for me to maintain. And I never
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: found it in all the years of the struggle of
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: trying to find this physical ideal. So it's that. It's
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: the stress that is keeping you stuck. And once your
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: body can trust you again, it's harder when you're trying
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: to achieve, like you're overworking and that's causing more stress
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: on your body. Listen to your body. Eat when you're hungry.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Stop when you're satisfied. Move it instead of punishing it.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, something shifts. Yeah.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: And there's biology behind that. There's research behind that. You know,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: when our stress system is just stuck in that survival state,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: it affects all of the chemicals. It affects your immune system.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: You can get immune disorders and all sorts of things
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: if you're just living in stress. So yeah, it affects
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: us big time. And I always think about what you
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: resist will persist. Like I just keep telling myself, Just
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: pull back a little bit because you're leaning in too
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: much on that resistance and it's going to have the
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: kind of effect that you're resisting against, right? Like, it's
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: a self-fulfilling prophecy sometimes.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: It just doesn't sound right. It's like, no, I need
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: to not eat and I need to overexercise. I need
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: to really focus. And I'm telling you, your body doesn't
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: trust you. If you've lived as long as, for me,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I said 16 to 38, I was just restricting and
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: depriving and my body was holding onto everything. Once your
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: body trusts you and you can kind of just, I
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: don't know, like never miss a Monday. I'm like, it
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: makes me cringe because I'm like, if I'm tired on
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: a Monday, I don't work out. And people are like, no,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: you need to set the tone. You need to push
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: and push. That failed me. That failed me. Now it's like, no,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: what is my body? I'll sit in the sauna. I'll
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: go for a walk. And before, when I was in
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: my mess, it's like, you don't go, you run every day.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: You took a day off and I was heavier. And again,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: I don't want to make it about a weight loss,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: but I'm telling you, ironically, I found a set point
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: that I can maintain easily that I'm happy with when
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I stopped trying. And it sounds not right, but all
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: that stress and cortisol is making your body sick. It's
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: holding onto fat. It's working against you. Just listen to
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: your body. Eat when you're hungry. Stop when you're satisfied.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Move your body every day not to punish it. And
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: your body will trust you again and just go to
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: a set point that you can maintain easier.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And let your girls see it.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Let your girls see you doing all those things.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And they're strong and it's not about a
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: body image. Yeah. Yeah.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I think we could talk about this forever, honestly. I
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: say this a lot at the end of the podcast,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: but like.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I know. I'm going to have to come back.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: All the things are coming up, you know, from decades.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Let everybody know where they can find the book, the foundation, you,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: all that good stuff. And then I'm going to link
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: it up in the show notes as well.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. I show up the most
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: on Instagram. I am Erin Washington. I actually have my
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: own podcast. It comes out every Monday and it's called
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Therin P. It's Erin doing therapy. And I talk to
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: mental health professionals and relationship coaches. Basically, you're a fly
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: on the wall of my therapy sessions and you can
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: get all the answers from my questions. So if you
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: are co-parenting, going through divorce, I'm looking at my sobriety, anxiety,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Parenting a Neurodivergent Child. Any of those topics, you can
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: click on and have me ask the questions and you
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: get the answers. Therapy with Erin Washington, wherever you get
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: your podcasts. And Just Like Me is available wherever you
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: get books. Amazon, if you have a local bookstore and
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: they don't have it, they can order it. You can
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: ask them to order it. And my foundation is Blue
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Butterfly Foundation. Our website is called thebluebutterflies.org. And if there
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: is a town that you want us to come to,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: I've got the mentors. I have the formula. Like we
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: get a woman owned business to sponsor the venue. We
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: provide lunch. It's always free to the girls. And we
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: do a whole day of bonding and telling them that
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: social media is not real and hyping them up. And
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: that is also on Instagram, the blue butterflies.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Fantastic. So much good work.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: So much good work. We need it. We need it.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: We need to be having these conversations. We don't, we
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: suffer in silence. We hold it in. We, it We
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: just need to be having these conversations. That's where things change.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: So I'm so thankful that you're doing that. And you're
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: an open book because your story is going to touch
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: other people. It's going to make an impact.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that so much. Multiple goosebumps on this podcast.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: And it was such a pleasure being here.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I love when we feel, right? I mean, that's when
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: we're human, when we're feeling things. Fantastic. So, so much
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: good stuff. I so thank you. And I will see
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: everybody next time. Take good care. Visit beautifully-complex.com for more resources, coaching,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: and parent training. And help another kid by sharing this
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: with someone who could benefit from listening.