Latest / Red Couch Theology / Grace at the Table: Judas, Peter, and Salvation

Transcript

Grace at the Table: Judas, Peter, and Salvation · Red Couch Theology

0:00
Hello, hello and welcome to another episode of the Red Couch
0:02
Theology podcast. Hey, this week we talk about
0:05
John chapter 13 and in there we talk about what's going on with
0:10
Judas and Peter and these betrayers and deniers.
0:15
We talk a little bit about at the end of this episode, we talk
0:18
about like this demon possession thing that is in the passage.
0:22
And then we talk about like, how do you, how do you get saved,
0:25
according to John from this text, Like is foot washing
0:28
related to that? Is that why don't we do foot
0:31
washing today as much as maybe this text would imply we should?
0:35
And all of those types of questions.
0:38
Let's dive right in. And we're live.
0:44
And we're live. And we've prepared more than
0:46
we've ever prepared for this entire show.
0:48
So this show is going to be so good.
0:52
How about that? Because it's.
0:54
Backwards week. Backwards week.
0:56
You. My hat's on backwards.
1:00
I don't know what that means. I don't have a hat backwards.
1:01
Week, well backwards week, is usually like I'm the preacher
1:04
and you get to ask the questions.
1:05
Or maybe we have a visiting preacher and we ask them
1:09
questions. But this week I was gone.
1:11
Yeah. You preached, now I get to ask
1:14
the questions. Indeed.
1:16
So what are we going to talk about today?
1:18
I like to do these little previews of sort of some of the
1:21
general things. Oh.
1:22
And then add another preview of the beginning.
1:24
Yeah, brilliant. Well, we're going to talk about
1:28
John 13, a very well known passage in scripture.
1:36
Yes, John tells a story that seems to be situated in amongst
1:45
the synoptic Gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke's version of
1:49
Communion or the Last Supper. But he doesn't tell that story.
1:55
He tells a different story. Yes.
2:01
And there's been some debate about what's what's up with
2:03
that? Like why is, was this before
2:06
Pentecost, actually during Pentecost?
2:08
Is that actually the meal they're sharing?
2:09
Is it? Is this actually Yeah.
2:11
And, and, and there's a whole bigger picture there of like,
2:13
and I don't want to throw anyone for a loop, but it seems like
2:17
John records Jesus dying on a slightly different day of the
2:22
week in John, Matthew, Mark and Luke, like, you know, and, and
2:26
it seems. That these goody, goody gun
2:28
drops you guys are in front of she's.
2:30
Trying to tie the story of Jesus to specifically the Passover
2:36
lamb, not just the Passover weekend.
2:39
So he wants us to know not just this is a new exodus, but like,
2:43
think about that lamb, which is different than the language in
2:46
the Synoptics. It's like a very specific
2:48
influence, very specific. I almost broke the red couch.
2:55
What would we do? I don't know.
2:59
That would have been great TV. It does.
3:01
It would have been weak. I don't know if.
3:02
You it does. Maybe I should be sitting on
3:04
there, yeah. We should take the heaviest one
3:07
in in the entire office. Yeah, put them on the rickety
3:10
couch. Absolutely, yeah.
3:12
It looks so good on camera though.
3:13
Look at that couch. Look at it shine.
3:16
So anyway, it's it's it's kind of very specific direction there
3:20
that that maybe isn't true. We'll we'll get to all that
3:22
because that's all coming. But right now they gathered a
3:26
little earlier than maybe the Last Supper.
3:28
And so this questions does this overlap?
3:30
Is this different etcetera, etcetera.
3:34
And Jesus does something that to us is super unusual.
3:39
He washes feet? Yep.
3:41
Like now. Now, I don't know.
3:42
Have you ever been in a foot washing service?
3:44
Have you ever done a foot washing service?
3:46
I have. You have.
3:47
I. Hate touching other people's
3:49
feet that aren't mine, my kids, or my wife's.
3:53
I have never done one and don't think I ever would.
3:57
Yeah, I'm not even the biggest fan of touching my family's
4:00
feet, if I'm honest, I'm. Trying to be more inclusive, you
4:04
know. Yeah, yeah, it's not my
4:06
favorite. I've never I've never done 1 and
4:08
I don't really understand the why of it.
4:10
I don't think but that that is a a common practice.
4:14
Yeah, but like based on this passage, it should be a
4:16
sacrament of the church because it part it, it potentially it's
4:22
it's almost like giving you salvation on one reading.
4:27
So why don't you tell us what you told people?
4:29
I didn't talk about that. OK, well why don't you tell us
4:32
you what you told people about this passage, maybe emphasizing
4:35
some of the salient points that might have been missed by people
4:37
listening. To yeah, yeah, yeah, some.
4:39
How? How long did you preach?
4:40
Do you remember? 38 minutes.
4:42
You went under 40 minutes. I did.
4:45
That's nuts. How far we've come.
4:49
Yeah, now the service was over, but that was less on me.
4:54
That was less once, so you did 30.
4:57
Well, I guess it depends whether you were scheduled to do 30. 5
5:00
It's a Lenten miracle. So.
5:04
So yeah, yeah. What do you say?
5:07
The 30,000 foot view is I think there's one primary imperative
5:14
in this chapter, which is to love like Jesus, like that's
5:19
the, the the text kind of you. Interestingly, I should go back
5:25
and look at this cause it feels chiastic.
5:29
Maybe it is, I didn't actually check.
5:31
Well, you know the, you know the theory that everything's
5:34
chiastic? Yeah, you look hard enough.
5:35
So for chiasm is like a literary device that the scriptures use
5:40
mostly in the Hebraic texts, Hebrew texts, but these are
5:46
Hebrew people writing, so they did it in Greek too.
5:49
So where they like in order to highlight the main point, they
5:54
do like an ABCCBA structure or whatever.
5:58
And the thing that's in the middle, yeah, is the most
6:01
important. So an exact really quick example
6:03
from other places in Scripture would be the story where Jesus
6:06
calms the storm. You know, part A of the chiasm
6:10
is Jesus steps onto the boat. Yep, there's a conversation dot
6:14
dot dot dot dot. The storm comes, you know, rises
6:18
up. Jesus speaks to the storm, and
6:22
that's the the furthest point, the ABCD of the chasm.
6:27
Yeah. And then the storm quietens and
6:30
you're coming back now. So you're back to CB.
6:33
There's a conversation, a Jesus steps out of the boat.
6:36
Yeah. And that's just a really easy
6:38
example. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:40
And so you're supposed to look for the middle as sort of like,
6:43
it's a way of like literarily highlighting.
6:45
So imagine like an arrow, because that's what it looks
6:47
like on paper. It moves outwards and then moves
6:49
back. It's like a directional arrow.
6:51
Imagine like, yeah, that's the point to focus on.
6:55
So actually, I don't know if this chapter is chiastic, but it
6:57
actually feels kind of that way because in the middle of this,
7:02
so you have, you know, John gives you all these crazy little
7:06
Nuggets, which we talked a lot about on Sunday, but he he opens
7:10
with the story of foot washing. Then in the middle you have this
7:14
like command love, love one one another like I've loved you in
7:20
verse 34. And he says it a couple other
7:22
ways and the world will know that you're my disciples by this
7:25
love, right. And then it goes outwardly to
7:29
betrayal and stuff like that. So the bulk of the text is not
7:33
that command interesting. The bulk of the chapter.
7:36
It's it's actually a bunch of other things.
7:38
And so one of the things I was trying to do on Sunday is, is I
7:44
think that that is the invitation that God has.
7:46
And the lesson for us is to love one another.
7:50
But I think that he gives us the answer to the question, how in
7:54
the world are we supposed to love like Jesus?
7:57
And the answer to that question is, ironically, to be loved by
8:02
him. Yeah.
8:03
So the this, I think the statement, there's a literal
8:08
statement made to Peter about you.
8:10
If I don't wash your feet, you can't have any part with me.
8:14
That's a literal statement he makes to Peter.
8:15
But metaphorically and spiritually speaking, if we
8:19
cannot receive the unconditional, untethered love
8:23
of God, then we don't partake in the gospel because the gospel
8:29
is. I love this description that one
8:32
of my professors at at Denver Seminary described when we went
8:35
into soteriology, which is the study of salvation.
8:38
How in the world does God save humans?
8:42
He said whatever it is, there's all these theories.
8:45
Whatever it is, all the theories agree on this one point.
8:49
Salvation is without human technique.
8:54
Explain that. It means it means like there's
8:58
we don't. We can't strategize around
9:01
salvation as humans. We can't do something more or
9:05
less, and I think the bulk of this entire chapter is trying to
9:10
illustrate that reality that that we can't do this without by
9:16
human technique. All of Peter's efforts, he's
9:21
trying to like get more washed than the next guy.
9:24
He's trying. To.
9:26
Show more respect than the next guy.
9:29
Even at the end it's there's some hints that he still doesn't
9:32
get in. He's like, I'm more committed
9:34
and more willing to die than the next guy.
9:36
And Jesus is kind of like Peter. Goodness gracious.
9:41
You can't do this by human technique.
9:46
And then I think the failure of Judas, the, the betrayal by
9:50
Judas and the denial by Peter. And yet Jesus washes both those
9:56
guys feet. Another reminder that this love
10:01
is even in the face of of of a denier and a betrayer is still
10:09
extended unconditionally so. So how do?
10:13
You If we get there, I think we get the love of one another
10:17
thrown in. So how do I mean?
10:20
So if you're someone that struggles to receive love, what
10:24
do you do about that? Wow.
10:27
I think, yeah, this is actually the part of the of the message
10:31
that was like really raw for me because I I, I read on my own
10:34
journal about a moment when I felt like I couldn't receive his
10:39
love. Like the journal entry was like
10:42
about do I think God doesn't love me?
10:45
Is that why I'm all out of sorts?
10:47
And I concluded I didn't think that actually, I think he does
10:51
love me. I just disagree.
10:54
And it was, you know, when I wrote the journal entry, it was
10:57
like a company with a ton of tears and I just wrestled with
11:00
that thoroughly. And I so how do you do that?
11:05
You can meditate on his love. You can you can meditate on the
11:10
text that describe the gospel of like reading, maybe even putting
11:15
to memory Romans. The beginning portion of Romans
11:18
5 I think goes a long way to remind you that while you were
11:24
an enemy, in other words, running as fast as you can in
11:28
the opposite direction, that's when he loved you.
11:31
Things. Texts like that help to break
11:36
past the impulse to to try and save yourself.
11:41
Yeah, I I have talked before about one of the, the words that
11:46
I've played with in times of, of prayer is the word storehouse.
11:57
Yeah, that's a more recentish one, last two years, right?
12:00
Yeah, yeah, last couple of years, yeah.
12:02
And it came from this song and this lyric particularly you'll
12:09
never come to the bottom of my storehouses of love.
12:13
And, and, and all I had in the that my mind was this huge grain
12:19
silo, like picture one of those huge like storage facilities.
12:24
And it, it's just full to the top with all of this stuff.
12:27
And you imagine like trying to get to the bottom of it and it
12:31
just goes down and down and down and down and down.
12:34
You know, And some of these things are giant, like
12:36
underground ones that go on forever.
12:38
And I'm like, oh, like, that's unreachable.
12:42
At least it feels like it is. And this is, this is truly
12:46
unreachable. There is never a point that you
12:49
can find. And so somewhere like some of
12:53
those meditative practices, some of those types of prayer, that
13:00
they seem to really be important as well.
13:03
Yeah, and I think one of the reasons it's so difficult for
13:10
humans in general, but especially for Westerners to
13:15
apprehend the love of God is because it's a thing done by the
13:20
non linguistic part of the mind. It's a thing you feel.
13:28
It's a thing you experience as much, at least as much.
13:35
Not now. OK, so let me push back on that
13:37
a second, as you always do to me.
13:39
This is my favorite part about backwards week.
13:41
Perfect. So so.
13:44
How the turns table? Yeah.
13:45
At the same time, it is a feeling thing.
13:48
Yeah, but feelings change, right?
13:51
So like you have a couple of cloudy days, start to feel
13:55
different. It rains start to feel a little
13:57
different, eat badly for a couple of days, start to feel
14:01
different. So, so there's a bunch of
14:03
things. Look at yourself in the mirror
14:04
and don't look like what you see, like make a mistake.
14:08
And so how do you manage the need to feel something about
14:14
what God feels about you rather than just think it, but also the
14:20
the truth that how you feel about things changes so easily.
14:25
How'd you deal with that? Yeah, so I all right, maybe the
14:28
word feeling isn't the most accurate.
14:34
So I'm thinking about brain science here.
14:36
So I, I referenced in passing and I was like, oh man, I like
14:41
it wasn't in my notes or plan, but I mentioned in passing like
14:45
the concept of attachment theory.
14:48
And I just explained it super quickly because I was like, I
14:50
shouldn't have even mentioned this because it's a whole can of
14:52
worms, but I mentioned it enough to like, at least close the loop
14:56
and then continue, you know? But the brain science around
15:02
human connection and around like, attachment is such that
15:10
it's a little bit less emotion and it's intuitive.
15:17
So that doesn't fully solve the question you're asking.
15:21
But one of the things you're looking for in an attached
15:24
relationship is that the prefrontal cortex is awakened
15:29
and alive. And I've even heard theologians
15:32
say, and I tend to believe that the image of God that the
15:35
scriptures talk about is the is, is sort of like embodied in the
15:39
prefrontal cortex. It's the humanist part.
15:43
It's the image of God part of of the brain where where you
15:50
experience joy or connection, safety, trust.
15:56
So you what you taught on the previous week on believe in God
16:01
means trust. What it means is when I
16:03
encounter the teachings of Jesus, the way of Jesus and the
16:07
person of Jesus, my prefrontal cortex is alive.
16:12
That's what it means to trust. It means I'm vulnerable and OK
16:16
about it. So yes, there's some emotions
16:19
involved in that, but it's it's actually more that I am awakened
16:26
as a creature made to connect relationally with a with another
16:32
being. So maybe that's a slight, I
16:37
don't know if that fully helps. No, it does.
16:40
But that's what I mean by experience.
16:43
It's this intuited space where you actually relationally
16:47
connect with God. So one of one of the interesting
16:51
challenges of worshipping someone you've never seen is
16:57
that usually our brains work around images, right?
17:00
So that that they were very image based people.
17:03
And this is different now, especially from how it was 100
17:08
years ago. You know, people used to work
17:10
more around writing and, you know, like it was order audio.
17:14
But now we're very visual people.
17:16
So someone says something instantly our mind goes to
17:19
pictures because our knowledge is so much greater.
17:22
You said to someone like a poor rural person who'd lived into in
17:27
the, the, the mountains of Russia 100 years ago, think of a
17:32
beach. Well, they had nothing to think
17:34
about, you know, whereas we've got so much data now, so many
17:38
pictures floating around in Avery.
17:41
And so one of the things CS Lewis talks about this really
17:43
interesting about having a relationship with God.
17:46
It is and this is AII found this brilliantly helpful.
17:51
It's in his book the screw tape. Let us and he talks about the
17:55
felt need to hold a picture of what you think God looks like in
18:00
your mind when you're praying or or when you're worshipping or
18:04
any of those things. Trying to imagine God in front
18:07
of you and then trying to work really hard to improve that
18:12
image over time to have a better sense of the image.
18:16
He says actually that's one of the biggest flaws in prayer.
18:20
He says, actually the moment you can get from praying not to the
18:25
thing I think you are, but to praying to the God you know
18:30
yourself to be outside of any of my experiences is actually a
18:35
groundbreaking experience. Yeah.
18:37
Like our sense that we need to be able to like hold this in our
18:41
brain is is a huge barrier to. Press which which starts to
18:44
approach on one of the one of the apologetic approaches to the
18:49
existence of God. Fact that we can imagine an
18:52
unimaginable being is in and of itself an evidence for the
18:57
existence of God. But yeah, absolutely,
18:59
absolutely. So, so, so so one of the things
19:01
that I tend to see with people is even how we understand God
19:07
tends to swing one of two directions.
19:09
We we tend to move to seeing God as as eminent, like high above
19:15
lifted up distant almost Yeah, great creator of the world who's
19:19
abstract all We tend to see him as a a friend and only a friend,
19:26
almost like someone that you can you can joke around with and and
19:30
there's facets of God in both of.
19:32
Those. Yeah, yeah.
19:33
But we tend to land in one land, in one or the other, yeah.
19:36
And so if you're someone that sees God primarily as things
19:41
like a judge, a father figure, perhaps that was difficult to
19:45
have a relationship with, maybe a, a, a, a policeman in the sky.
19:50
He was always watching out for the things you do.
19:53
Yeah, that prefrontal cortex piece can be really difficult,
19:57
right, because of all that baggage you're carrying into.
20:00
Yeah. And so your original question,
20:03
how do we do, how do we wrestle through the difficulty of
20:08
encountering or apprehending the love of God in this way?
20:12
Well, we gave you a couple already, but then some of them
20:16
are, I think that they're some of the close relationships that
20:21
you have here on earth with other humans.
20:23
As you do some work around how do you connect with them in love
20:30
is is a helpful skill that then can also help to translate so
20:37
interestingly, this text love one another as I've loved you is
20:41
the the command and you need but you need to 1st apprehend this
20:47
unconditional love of God in order to do that.
20:50
But you can approach that both topics simultaneously in that if
20:56
we get better at learning to love and be in good healthy
21:00
relationship with other humans, it the same muscles, mental
21:04
muscles are what's required to have a healthier relationship
21:08
with God. So one of the ways you can get
21:10
better at it is how are your relationships on earth.
21:13
What are the traumas that you face on a regular basis that
21:16
prevent you from being emotionally available or
21:21
anxiously attached like unhealthily attached to other
21:23
humans? Whether it and there's a a bunch
21:26
of different ways and if you do some counseling work around.
21:28
That, yeah, or spiritual direction.
21:30
Spiritual direction or or listening prayer around some of
21:35
those different things. It it's those are skills and
21:40
lessons that also chances are are preventing you from
21:44
relationally connecting with God.
21:47
So they're all, it's all intertwined in this text.
21:50
And if you're someone who's like, I'm not sure I understand
21:52
the difference between counseling and spiritual
21:54
direction. Well, counseling may do
21:58
spiritual direction, but it can also delve into a lot of other
22:02
things like trauma backgrounds and, you know, relational
22:06
backgrounds and family systems. But but spiritual direction
22:09
seems to come with one premise. How can you see God clearly and
22:14
be seen by him clearly? Like how can you remove the
22:17
barriers that sit between you and God and allow yourself to
22:21
stand in the light of God's love in a new way?
22:25
And so, so maybe one of those is a pathway.
22:28
So one of the things that's always interested me about this,
22:30
it's actually my favorite nerd detail about this passage, is
22:35
where a lot of the commentators have imagined the seating
22:41
pattern would be or the seating layout would be in this in this,
22:47
this moment. So we know that John is next to
22:51
Jesus in the Last Supper narratives, of which this seems
22:56
to be 1. And then Peter actually finds
23:01
himself at the lowest end of the table, the place that would be
23:05
given to the person that was at least significant.
23:09
And Judas finds himself next to Jesus as well, on the other side
23:15
of Jesus. Yeah.
23:16
So what do you think's going on with like how Jesus interacts
23:21
with Judas and Peter? Peter throughout most of the
23:25
Gospels is this heroic figure, or at least wants to be.
23:29
He's the one that speaks first. He's the one that always makes
23:32
the bold declarations. Even in in Matthew's Gospel has
23:35
this incredible insight when Jesus says, who am I?
23:38
And he's like, oh, you're the Messiah, the son of God.
23:42
Like there's no one who hits the highs of Peter and then there's
23:46
no one who hits the lows of people.
23:48
Yeah, like if you say enough stuff, you're bound to say the
23:51
right thing at least once. Even a blind squirrel 5.
23:55
That's Peter for you. Yeah.
23:57
So he's he's maybe one of the more out of all the disciples,
24:00
he's the one that we are most conscious.
24:03
Of yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
24:04
But just just because he's honestly most of the time
24:07
putting his foot in his mouth and humanizing what it means to
24:11
follow Jesus very kindly for us. Yeah, so, so, so I think there's
24:15
this weird interplay that you'd expect Peter to be at the top of
24:18
the table, you know, next to Jesus on the other side perhaps.
24:23
And, and knowing about Judas, as Jesus seems to be doing, you'd
24:28
expect Judas to be at the lowest point of the table.
24:32
Yeah, like, what's going on? Because these two, as you said
24:35
at the beginning, seem to be focal points of the passage, a
24:39
betrayer and a denier, and Jesus interacts specifically with both
24:45
of them. Yeah, I didn't actually study
24:47
that. And because I, I, I agree that
24:53
Peter and Judas are, I think they're foils in the story.
25:00
Not even actually, I think they're in the same camp.
25:03
I think they're both the losers of the story.
25:07
They're foils against the unconditional love of God.
25:13
Ironically, more Peter than Judas in this in this text,
25:18
because I think I, I think Peter.
25:25
So what's up with the seating arrangement?
25:27
I think it that piece of information is helpful to
25:29
understand maybe why Peter's trying so hard is he's trying to
25:34
prove his his love for Jesus. So his first struggle is I want
25:42
like, maybe it's not to impress the other disciples just like
25:45
make it as pure as you could possibly make it.
25:47
I want Jesus to know how much I love him and so so that he knows
25:55
that I'm all in. So therefore you can't wash my
25:59
feet Jesus, because I want you to know that I respect you that
26:02
much. I refuse and the the we talked
26:06
about on Sunday, the statement there, no, you won't wash my
26:09
feet is is a double negative and then the sentence prior is also
26:13
a negative. Lord, are you going to wash me
26:15
that the it's in reverse from what that Greek structure should
26:19
be in order to highlight the Lord part of it.
26:24
In other words, like you of all people, the most majestic master
26:30
in the room would wash my feet is how he sentences it.
26:36
And then the next section Jesus says if I don't, he says no,
26:41
it's a double negative like no under any circumstances.
26:46
And so and then he finds out that technique is incorrect.
26:51
You can't be part of me unless I wash your feet.
26:53
And so he says new technique to earn my way.
26:56
So maybe if he's at the foot of the table.
26:58
Give me a bath. He's like wash all of me.
27:01
So if you're, if this is the technique to to be in favor with
27:05
you Jesus to maybe work my way up the table line, then I want
27:12
to at least get washed more than the other guys.
27:15
So. So and, and, and there's this
27:17
whole like, like hovering tension in the passage, right?
27:23
Of like there's no servant foot washing was a traditional
27:27
responsibility of a host. And then Peter's put in this
27:31
servant position. And so you can almost imagine a
27:34
room of like the 12 disciples looking around at each other,
27:38
like, who's going to crack? First?
27:40
Someone's got to wash the feet. And then this horror when Jesus
27:44
starts doing it, like, I almost wonder whether because of how
27:48
Peter becomes this leader in the church, whether there's some
27:51
hidden invitation that Jesus gives Peter of like, oh, can you
27:56
do this? Like, can you actually be
28:00
someone who can lower yourself? You know, because that's part of
28:03
the language at different points.
28:05
Like, you know, whoever wants to be the highest must become the
28:08
lowest. I, I had a, a small group leader
28:11
years ago. You know, I was probably 19 at
28:13
the time. And he was really significant
28:17
leader in the church I was in really dynamic preacher.
28:21
And we were all very excited to be included in this group of
28:24
guys that he pulled together that he saw something in.
28:28
And so we got to his house the first week and he said said, OK,
28:32
Alex, go make the tea. And, you know, it's like English
28:37
version of foot washing. Like it's like just they're
28:41
like, yeah. So I was like, OK, he's going to
28:43
make us all do this. Like, you know, it's like, you
28:46
know, it's just going to be a, a, a roto, whatever.
28:50
Next week we got there. He says, like, Alex tea.
28:53
And I was like, why am I doing the tea again?
28:57
Like third week, Alex, he made the tea.
29:00
Like I was just the tea guy, but it taught me something about
29:04
like what service looks like in that environment, like willing
29:08
to be the lowest person in the room.
29:09
So I think there's this hidden tension as well that comes out
29:12
where they're all like, and then almost like, and this is where
29:15
Peter speaks up the horror of, oh, no, Jesus has done it.
29:21
That's the last person should. I didn't want to do it, but I
29:24
definitely didn't want Jesus to do it somebody else.
29:28
Should also highlights that I didn't do it.
29:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is so pretty early on in
29:35
the message, I I used the illustration of this of the
29:38
movie Inception, Yeah. And a lot of scriptures this
29:42
way, but like we and we kind of went top to bottom of the text
29:48
like 4 times during the sermon and each time it was like a
29:54
layer deeper. And then, oh, by the way,
29:56
there's this these Nuggets. And then by the way, there's
29:59
these Nuggets. I didn't even get to that one.
30:01
I didn't get to like, why? Like the salvation implications
30:05
of Judas and being demon possessed and all.
30:07
Like there's just layer after layer after layer after layer
30:10
after layer, which is very true to John.
30:13
Like John's just a master class in he's like, OK, if you're a
30:18
new Bible reader, you get layers one and two, one to two.
30:24
But like if you're like a doctorate in Greek exegesis,
30:31
I've got Nuggets in there for you. 2 Like it's just like he
30:34
just deposits layers upon layers upon layers.
30:37
And I think it were meant to meditate on this over and over
30:41
and over again and, and and find those things.
30:43
Well, well, for us, you know, the, the, the obvious takeaways,
30:49
we should be foot washing, right?
30:52
I mean, that's the easy like assumption when you come to it
30:56
the first time and you look at the first couple of layers.
30:59
Jesus did foot washing. Why don't we do foot washing?
31:02
Yeah. So, yeah.
31:04
And there's some, Scott, there are some who've tried to make
31:09
the case that foot washing should be a sacrament.
31:13
Like like communion like. Baptism.
31:16
And so, yeah. What's a sacrament, Alex?
31:21
Like a sacrament is sort of it a practice that's in a little bit
31:26
of a different category. Yeah.
31:28
How would you define a sacrament?
31:30
Maybe do it together? I mean, it's a rhythmic
31:33
invitation to step closer to God.
31:36
So you step into the story in a very practical way.
31:39
And so Communion does that, Baptism as a once off year does
31:43
that. And the Catholics have a lot
31:45
more sacraments than we have. Yes, one of which is foot
31:48
washing. So the the Pope, the highest
31:51
figure in the the Catholic Church will gather 100 or so
31:56
people every year and he'll wash their feet.
31:59
Many of them might be, you know, particularly poor.
32:03
They might, I mean he, they, they'll specifically select
32:07
people that are lower in society.
32:10
And this is this moment where this Pope takes off his his
32:13
robes of state and he and he comes very low and humble to
32:20
mirror very concretely Jesus practice here.
32:25
Yeah, yeah. And so I think the impulse.
32:28
So why don't, why don't we do foot washing itself on a regular
32:32
basis? Like there have been things in
32:34
the in history that we have while I've been here where we'll
32:37
have a special service or a, a class on spiritual practice or
32:41
whatever. And then then maybe there's some
32:43
foot washing involved. Why isn't that more prevalent?
32:45
Like, why don't we do second Sunday of the month?
32:47
We have foot washing ceremonies, Yeah.
32:51
Because I said that quick. Yeah, that's right.
32:53
Because Alex hates it. Yeah.
32:55
He was kind of hoping that we would have a foot washing
32:58
ceremony in this service so that he would check.
33:01
We did it once during my tenure, but I was in a different
33:05
country. Yeah.
33:06
Oh dear. Oh, shoot.
33:08
It's almost like it happened. An accident, yeah.
33:12
Yeah, you you get a joke in that I I had to do foot watching.
33:16
So yeah, I think it actually is a really interesting question
33:21
around this entire chapter because you could make the case
33:25
that one could make the case by reading the entire Gospel of
33:30
John that this text has some salvation Y kind of language
33:39
more than a lot of the texts in the rest of the book of John.
33:43
So the theological constant term for that is soteriology.
33:47
So is this foot washing thing related to our salvation?
33:56
And I think I think it's a natural impulse to have because
34:00
of some of the words he he uses. So in verse 8, we have no Peter
34:08
says you shall never wash my feet.
34:11
Jesus answered, unless I wash, you have no part with me that
34:15
feels salvation. Y right.
34:17
And then, then the Lord's OK, no wash all of me then.
34:21
And then, and then there's this like weird thing, like if you're
34:24
if you've changed gears to Jesus is talking about how do I go to
34:29
the good place and get out of the bad place?
34:31
The rest of this next section starts to like you're spinning
34:35
in circles. Like.
34:37
What? OK, so let's try and keep that
34:41
hat on or that lens of this is about salvation, our eternal
34:46
heaven destination. Jesus answered.
34:48
Those who've had a bath need only wash their feet.
34:52
Their whole body is clean and are and you are clean, though
34:56
not everyone of you. And you're like, OK, so
35:00
specifically it has to be this part of one of these two
35:04
appendages. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:07
That's a really weird salvation mechanism.
35:09
Sure, and and one that clearly doesn't get passed down to other
35:14
in the the movement from. Jesus to the church, Yeah, the
35:18
rest of the can't. Make disciples and baptize them.
35:20
Otherwise you'd expect go make disciples and wash their feet.
35:24
Yeah. And so.
35:26
Like you have it's some conflict for the rest of Scripture, but
35:28
then you're like, these are the words of Jesus.
35:30
So like, if we're like, they're, they're red letters.
35:33
You're seeing them on the screen, right?
35:34
They're they're these are red letter words about salvation,
35:37
right? For he knew who was going to
35:39
betray him. And then he says, do you
35:40
understand what I've done for you?
35:42
You call me teacher and Lord rightly so for I'm this now do
35:46
do this for each other. So then, oh wait, maybe it's not
35:50
about salvation, but it's about ongoing sanctification.
35:53
Like if we're not physically washing each other's feet, we
35:55
have less access to the grace of God known if we don't, which is
35:58
where the Sacramento nature of this came in for the Catholic
36:02
Church and well, or for those who advocate for this particular
36:06
practice as a as a sacrament is, they said, well, the rest of
36:13
Canon of Scripture says that it that it's not salvific.
36:17
It doesn't save us. So but what it might be is a
36:21
means of grace is the theological term of like a
36:25
sacrament. It's a way that the grace of God
36:29
is specially imparted to the people of God through a
36:32
Sacramento act, which is actually what is what we kind of
36:38
believe when it comes to the sacraments, that there is
36:43
something uniquely special about communion and about baptism that
36:49
is a it's, it's not solely representative.
36:53
There are people who believe it's just a metaphor.
36:57
But then I think we at South believe in sort of real presence
37:01
around. We don't believe in
37:03
transubstantiation, where the the bread and the cup literally
37:07
turn into the physical body and blood of.
37:10
Jesus. But we believe that that Jesus
37:13
meets the church in a unique, intangible, spiritual way around
37:19
communion. Anyway, so I didn't answer any
37:23
of the question where I stand on this.
37:25
I don't think any of those readings are helpful for what
37:28
John's trying to accomplish. In fact, I think it's a much
37:32
more casual interaction, spiritually speaking than than
37:38
that. So let me read it from a
37:41
different Now take your salvation lens off and thinking
37:45
about it just like a conversation between two guys
37:49
that hang out a lot of a long time and, and they're, and one
37:54
of them is trying to like look good in the other's eyes and all
37:56
that stuff. So Peter says, no, you can't
37:59
wash my feet. And, and Jesus says, unless I
38:01
wash, you have no part of me. I think that's the spiritual
38:04
statement that in other words, it's serving unless you let me
38:10
serve you with this act of love and receive my love in this way,
38:18
you can't have a part in me. Then he says no.
38:21
Then then all of me. And Jesus is like, yeah, but
38:25
guess what? Washing your head in the hands
38:28
isn't like in our in our culture, washing heads and hands
38:33
isn't an act of service. So it's not as helpful for the
38:37
lesson I'm trying to teach you, where the King of Kings and Lord
38:40
of Lords Stoops down and demonstrates unconditional of I
38:44
could wash your head and hands and you would not get that
38:47
message. So specifically why feet?
38:50
Because it's the most stooping I can come up with for this
38:54
illustration. So he kind of just yeah, yeah,
38:56
yeah. It's that's not the point.
38:58
The point is that that that this is the yucky part.
39:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Peter, I think that's actually
39:02
what's going on, is that he's saying I'm serving you and heads
39:06
and hands are irrelevant because the ACT is service.
39:09
So why don't we do it today? Because foot washing isn't a
39:13
thing we do today. And that and that has been my
39:15
conclusion. I, I have often thought as much
39:18
as I understand the service that people want to demonstrate the
39:23
loneliness of it. And like in today's culture, it
39:26
would probably be more relevant to wash people's car during the
39:29
service. Like, I'm just skipping the
39:31
preaching and I'm out there like with sponges and, you know,
39:34
water and, you know. Yeah, or.
39:36
Now there isn't a a human interaction with that, so it
39:40
doesn't work really, but it's just trying to navigate.
39:44
It's not a cultural thing that we connect anymore.
39:48
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
39:50
It's a. So there's maybe much better
39:53
relevant things that that a a leader or person in authority
39:59
could do to demonstrate genuine love and service.
40:03
Yeah, yeah. And so you would have done that
40:05
in our. One, one of the things for me
40:07
actually that I really found value in was was being in the
40:11
food bank and, you know, taking groceries to people's cars for
40:15
them. And one of the things that came
40:17
up and this demonstrates, I guess, how leadership tends to
40:21
work in our culture. I, for a while, take someone's
40:25
groceries back and I'd see the same people every week and be
40:28
going to the car. And finally someone said, like,
40:31
so I only just found out that you're the lead pastor of the
40:35
church. And I was like, yeah, I mean,
40:39
yeah, that that's my, that's my title.
40:41
And her reaction was like, what are you doing out here?
40:45
Like, what is wrong with you? This isn't where you're supposed
40:48
to be. Like, don't you have better
40:50
things to do? And Jesus take on that seems to
40:54
be, no, I don't have better things to do.
40:56
Like you might think this is something that I'm that, that,
41:00
that I'm that that I shouldn't be involved in.
41:04
But the act of it and what it shows you about me, about you
41:10
and about how I see you and about how you should see others
41:14
is indispensable. Yeah.
41:16
To the worldwide church that I'm about to found.
41:19
Yeah, so. So there's this beautiful like
41:23
sense of like, Oh no, no, no, you have no idea how much I
41:27
should be doing this. Yeah, and I also think that the
41:32
whole foot washing isn't the point fully for John in the
41:36
scope of the book either. So I made the case that John is
41:42
trying to tease the principles of the cross in this chapter and
41:47
he leverages foot washing as a microcosm or a preamble to the
41:52
cross. So think about, let's just pair
41:57
up these illustrations. Foot washing, it was meant to be
42:01
done by servants. Instead, the most authoritative,
42:05
like the most authority deserving person in the room
42:09
does that task and we know that he does it out of a deep seated
42:15
love that we find out in verse one.
42:17
It's a love that is complete and thorough to the uttermost is the
42:21
is the sort of language of the of the Greek.
42:25
And then John deposits a few hints in the text of the Greek
42:29
that this is a microcosm to the cross, because it's a call back
42:32
to the take the the laying down my life and taking up my life,
42:36
the laying down of his clothes and the taking up of his
42:38
clothes. So I think he's saying you think
42:43
this is service. How about the King of Kings,
42:46
Lord of Lords, the creator of the entire cosmos, the one who
42:50
spoke the universe into being, takes off his his his godness
42:58
and takes puts on humanity, and then Stoops not to wash the head
43:05
in the hands, but all the way to the point of death, which is the
43:10
equivalent on a the most cosmic level and the most visceral
43:15
level of humiliation. There's almost this hidden like
43:19
idea of like, if you won't let me wash your feet, how will you
43:22
let me go to the cross? Exactly.
43:24
That's what he's this is what John's trying to tease is he's
43:28
like, oh, you think foot washing is crazy?
43:31
Wait and see dude. Not a chance you're gonna even
43:34
be able to stomach like Peter can't stomach foot washing.
43:39
How in the and this is what I think Jesus is getting all
43:42
animated about with Peter. He's like, you have no idea the
43:46
level I will go to stoop to demonstrate my love for you,
43:49
which we learn from the rest of the scripture that God
43:53
demonstrated of his love for us in that while we were still
43:55
sinners, Christ died for us. Scarcely will someone die for a
43:59
righteous man, but for a a a righteous person, someone might
44:03
dare to die, but God in that while he we were still enemies
44:06
of God, he loved us like it's that's Romans 5.
44:09
So this is what John's starting to set up.
44:13
And then to illustrate the peace of the Romans passage.
44:19
I don't even reference Romans really.
44:21
Maybe I quote it briefly, but to illustrate the the palpable
44:25
nature of that humility. It's not like Jesus is stooping
44:30
to wash the feet of rock stars. He's not washing the feet of the
44:35
the most respected rabbi in the community or the OR the
44:39
political figure. He's washing the feet of a
44:43
betrayer and a denier. And then I love the little
44:47
nugget in there that the figure of speech or the idiom that that
44:51
he has when he describes Judas as one who betrays him, it's
44:54
literally he places he he shows me the heel of his foot.
45:01
So this clean foot that he just finished washing.
45:06
And John says, how do I use I want to describe this betrayer.
45:09
Those clean feet are the ones that will betray me.
45:13
It's like it's all over this text that that he's trying to
45:16
help us be willing to receive this kind of shocking love.
45:21
Yeah. And then to try to figure out
45:25
how to love each other the same. Way.
45:27
And then it seems like when we get to the end, Peter's going to
45:30
need some more lessons in that. Direction totally.
45:32
Like I, I didn't even get to that when we were describing
45:34
this. Like he still doesn't get it by
45:36
the end he's like, I'll die for you.
45:37
And Jesus is like, Oh yeah, you're going to deny me three
45:41
times. So not only are you not going to
45:43
die, you're going to do the opposite of die for me.
45:46
You're going to you're, you're going to decline, deny that you
45:49
even knew me. Yeah.
45:50
And you know, this to me is one of the interesting grand
45:55
narratives of, of, of John, Jesus willingness to nudge these
46:01
disciples down this journey. Like Peter's journey will
46:05
actually end when he goes to the cross decades later.
46:10
But it will like this element of it will start to conclude in
46:14
John 21 after his denial and his surprising willingness to let
46:22
Jesus go to the cross for him in the end.
46:24
Yeah, which is which is the tension, right?
46:26
Of of like, Will, will we let you go?
46:29
How could we stop you? Yeah, you'll you will never wash
46:32
my feet. Why?
46:33
Because it there's no utility in this for me.
46:35
Because I want to look good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:37
But I'll let, I'll let you go to the cross.
46:39
Why? Because there's more utility for
46:41
me in that. Because otherwise I'll look bad
46:43
if I'm associated with you. Yes.
46:45
Like it's just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:47
There's a whole but, but that one of the things that's been
46:51
interesting to me is this sense in today's culture that
46:59
everything that you've done through the whole of your past
47:02
life is just as relevant today as it was then.
47:07
So, so like this sense of like, you see it with council cancel
47:10
culture, someone will find out someone did something 15 years
47:14
ago or 20 years ago and it's like, Oh no, we're done now.
47:21
There's a sense with some things of justice, but what it speaks
47:26
to actually is this wider culture that says you can never
47:31
recover from mistakes, you never grow, you can never learn a
47:35
lesson and that be OK. You have to express complete
47:42
alignment with the cultural values of the day throughout
47:46
your whole past. Now, Now when that's true, like
47:49
how can you ever move on in a journey?
47:52
And Jesus seems to be a huge fan of people being able to move on
47:56
in a journey, being able to grow, being able to change.
48:02
And that that to him is exactly as it should be.
48:06
So, so, so a guy I was listening to the other day, and I'll use
48:11
it in my term just because it's easier.
48:12
But he said, like, I've just started saying to people when
48:17
they brought up something that happened in the past and he's
48:19
fairly well known and someone will bring up like an event or a
48:22
thing. And he said, you know, you know,
48:24
I've just started saying like, yeah, that was like 9 Alex's
48:28
ago. That was like 12 Alex's ago.
48:32
And we can talk about it. But like, a lot has changed
48:35
since then, like, and I'm in a completely different place.
48:40
And Jesus seems to have this grace.
48:43
And you get this slight suspicion that the difference
48:49
between Peter and Judas is in the in the end is that that
48:54
Peter is willing to keep coming back and say, man, I got that
49:00
wrong. Like, I am so sorry.
49:03
Yeah, it might take some prompting, but but Judas can't
49:06
get to that point. Yeah, well, I described like, I
49:14
guess maybe emotionally in the sermon prep process.
49:16
The part that, like, baffled me the most is when you see this
49:20
level of love and then you see the level of brokenness and the
49:28
literary tools that John uses to highlight the weakness of Peter
49:33
and the weakness of Judas. And then I extrapolate that to
49:36
the weakness of me. I start to think of like, why
49:40
does God invest in the human project?
49:45
Because he, he knows in advance love one another as I have loved
49:50
you. And literally you're failing in
49:54
this very moment. Like you can't obey that
49:59
command. Then why say it?
50:03
Like God should have invested in a flock of golden retrievers
50:10
that were well trained because he could get a lot more done
50:13
with them than with humans. Because humans this is so there
50:18
feels like there's a futility built into the gospel that only
50:24
makes sense if God is is patient enough to let humanity stumble
50:32
all over ourselves. And then he picks us up and then
50:35
he we stumble again and he picks us up and then crazy things
50:39
happen in human history like the Crusades.
50:41
And he's like, I'm still gonna pick you up.
50:44
And like then crazy other things happen where like Christians in
50:47
the name in in the name of Christianity, we we, you know,
50:51
tout slavery. Like he picks us up and then we
50:53
like, why does God keep doing this feudal project and come and
51:00
he doesn't lower the bar. He doesn't say like, OK, I love
51:04
you. I love you to the point of
51:06
death. But could you guys like try to
51:10
use like nice words at least, like you can feel anger towards
51:16
each other, but like try not to cuss at each other?
51:19
Like that feels like a more realistic command.
51:23
You see what I'm saying? But I think all of that
51:27
illustrates how unreal, unimaginable the unconditional
51:32
love of God is because He knows all of that and he still
51:36
continues the project. And so there's this little piece
51:39
as well that like the excitement, the joy even for us
51:46
of helping someone live up to all they could be is real.
51:50
You know? You know, I I often wonder why
51:53
teachers will happily go and work in inner City Schools at
51:57
times rather than in affluent suburban communities.
52:01
And like, you know, you, you talk to some teachers and
52:04
they're like, well, yeah. I mean, like when 20 of your
52:07
class go to Yale, another kid going to Yale isn't the most
52:12
life changing thing. But when you take or work with
52:16
a, a person in a community that's truly like destined for a
52:22
life that means nothing, and you help them raise up to something
52:27
that's beyond anything they ever imagined, like that's a gift.
52:32
And, and so the, the amazing thing about God's project is we
52:35
are the only species that have that image of God that are
52:40
capable of doing those kind of things.
52:42
A golden retriever dies for its master, right?
52:44
It's herd instinct or yeah, yeah, whatever.
52:46
But like, to truly like get to that point of giving your life
52:50
as someone who has no connection to you.
52:53
And, and, and yet we've seen humans hit those heights time
52:57
and time again. Live into that image of God.
53:00
Yeah. And so that seems to be part of
53:02
the beautiful, the beautiful work that God does.
53:05
And the shocking and the shocking love of God, because
53:07
it's just like I have a very low anthropology, My expectations of
53:15
humans is very low. And part of that becomes comes
53:19
from if you live enough life, you see how bad I am, I see how
53:26
bad I am, and I see how bad humans can be to each other.
53:30
And yet theologically, the Scriptures state so explicitly
53:41
that we do have the image of God, that we have a potential
53:47
energy built into our design that that describes us as being
53:55
able to do more than Jesus did while he was here.
53:59
What that describes our capacity to commune with the triune God
54:05
in perfect loving relationship through in in eternity.
54:09
What? And so I think this is part of
54:13
the beauty of the contrast of the gospel is that our utter
54:18
disaster area, that is we are as creatures mixed with the
54:24
optimistic goodness of God, demonstrates even more of his
54:29
glory and his beauty. It's just powerful.
54:33
Yeah, any anything you want people to know.
54:36
Well, I wanted to ask you since I think you have 4 minutes to
54:39
say like is Judas possessed by Satan himself?
54:45
I didn't answer the question on Sunday, so I'll throw.
54:47
It back on you really and thanks.
54:50
Yeah you know, it's I think it's just super vague, right.
54:53
Like, I mean the language of of demon, like as a whole history
54:57
across Hebrew Thor, across, you know, Greek Thor.
55:02
It says Satan entered him, right?
55:04
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
55:05
And, and what does that mean? Does that mean like on a
55:07
physical level? Does that mean like he was at
55:12
that moment an embodiment of the, the work and the desire of,
55:16
of Satan? I don't think you can say
55:19
concretely one way or the other. I do think you can say that
55:22
Judas in that moment is actively working for the interests of the
55:27
one who is opposed to God most of all, and yet at the same time
55:34
helping fulfill the very purposes that God had.
55:37
You know, so there's this weird tension in the passage that, you
55:41
know, it's, it comes out in some of the synoptics when he's
55:45
described as the one doomed to destruction so that the, the,
55:50
the, the, the words of prophecy could be fulfilled.
55:55
I'm always intrigued by what that means.
55:58
Does it mean that Judas had no chance to repent, that I was
56:01
never an opportunity for him? Does it mean that he couldn't
56:04
trust God with God to be big enough to forgive him?
56:09
I don't think there's any clear answers there.
56:12
Yeah. And I, I tend to agree.
56:14
Like I spent some time studying that and.
56:16
But I think the most useful way I have seen for people
56:21
understanding the difference between Judas and Peter is the
56:25
willingness to stay, the willingness to wait.
56:29
You know, Peter, even with all his doubts, his self loathing,
56:33
his sense of failure, finds himself still waiting around for
56:38
Jesus to show up with the rest of the disciples.
56:41
Yeah, and Judas is longer. Yeah.
56:45
And so I, I think, you know, if you're ever in doubt of God's
56:49
capacity to forgive and welcome you home, like I think Peter is
56:55
a great example of that, yeah. Just keep coming back.
56:58
No matter how big the failure is, no matter how the
57:02
willingness to keep coming back is an important thing.
57:06
Yeah. And I think you can make a case
57:07
that, I mean, at least textually speaking, Peter Waite made far
57:13
more mistakes than Judas did as far as numerical.
57:18
Like it's a pretty big one to turn over Jesus to for murder.
57:22
So it's a pretty big quote UN quote mistake.
57:25
But we know of two for Judas. He was sneaking some of the
57:29
money and he betrays Jesus. We know like dozens with.
57:36
And like even later in the in the writings and Galatians, we
57:40
see Peter still making dumb mistakes, right.
57:43
So, but so if it's if it's just about that I, I think that we
57:48
see from the text, the heart of Jesus towards Judas is would
57:52
have been forgiveness. He washes this man's feet
57:55
knowing that like the illustration of the cross he's
57:59
trying to do. He's like, you know, I'm gonna
58:01
wash the guy who's gonna betray me.
58:03
Yeah, because it illustrates how much I'm willing to love.
58:07
So I think it's not on the part of of of God or or Jesus that
58:11
would reject Judas. So it.
58:13
Is something else, so. I'm on this like, like nerdy pet
58:19
peeve at the moment of that. You've probably heard me say
58:24
before, I'll probably say again in the future of the difference
58:27
between a gospel that seems like it's a first person thing or the
58:30
gospel that seems like it's a third person thing.
58:33
And anyone who starts following Jesus, The reality is at some
58:37
point you're going to you're going to screw it up.
58:39
At some point you're going to be like, man, I really let down the
58:42
one who not only washed my feet, but went to the cross for me.
58:46
And, and when it's a first person gospel, you're like, OK,
58:50
guess that's it. Not good enough.
58:52
Never really believe this stuff. Clearly, you know failure when
58:56
it's third person and you realize it wasn't about you
58:59
anyway. The invite is usually to come
59:02
home. Yeah, like the God says.
59:04
I actually am quite willing to deal with that time and time
59:08
again. Yeah, as you grow and learn to
59:10
follow me. So yeah, and like, which is why
59:15
whatever you believe about how salvation functions, it is going
59:19
to it. The only biblical answer to how
59:24
do humans get saved is the fact that it's something that is done
59:28
without human technique. Like you.
59:30
You just aren't, you aren't able to earn this.
59:33
You aren't able to earn it more than the next one.
59:37
You aren't able to get a little more saved than the next.
59:40
Like it's just that's not how this thing works.
59:43
And if we can't, if we can't wrap our minds around that, then
59:47
we have yet to wrap our minds around the good news of the
59:49
gospel. Yeah.
59:50
Absolutely love it. All right.
59:53
Thank you all for tuning in and. That.
59:55
Bombshell. We'll be back.
59:56
Oh, by the way, you may have noticed we didn't talk about AA
59:59
was cancelled this last week or this yesterday because of Ash
1:00:02
Wednesday service, which many of you came to.
1:00:06
Yeah. So we'll be back to alpha
1:00:08
questions next week. Love it.
1:00:10
Bye.