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What I've Learnt - #BringThemHome (Guy Shahar) · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, welcome to this special edition of the What I've Learned podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm privileged and somewhat saddened to interview this beautiful family from Israel.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: As the Middle East war rages and innocence on both sides are caught in an unspeakable tragedy.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so grateful to speak to a beautiful family who've been utterly devastated by the October 7 horrors.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: It really is a father's agony.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's so unbelievably heartbreaking.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: On Saturday morning, Yoni Usher was sent a photo of his two young daughters playing in a family safe room before losing contact with his wife.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: He later found a video showing that they had been taken to Gaza, turning his life into a nightmare.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: My wife and the girls, four and a half-year-old Raz and two and a half-year-old Aviv, went to visit Duron's mother and her partner at Kibutz near Oz for the celebration of Simchat Tura.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, after losing contact with her and receiving no response to his calls, Usher located his wife's phone at 11.30am, discovering she was in the Gaza strip.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: He subsequently found a video on Telegram showing the terrorists loading Duran and the girls onto a cart, covering Duron's hair and taking them into Gaza.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: He said, since then, we've had no new information about them.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Ravid Katz, 51, was taken captive by Hamas terrorists on the same day when they attacked the same kibbutz, where Katz lives with his family and other relatives.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: On that Saturday, Ravid made sure his wife and four-month-old baby were safe, safe with neighbours in their sealed room and went to fight the terrorists with the kibbutz security team.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Ravid's wife and baby survived the assault after hiding for hours.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: His mother, Ephraim Katz, 70, was killed and her partner Gadi Moshem Moses is also captive in Gaza.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Ravid's sister Doron Katz, Ashtar, and her two daughters were taken hostage separately.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: The family was unable to locate any sign of Ravid for many days but received word that he is in Gaza.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's this story of the hostages that pervades the Israeli consciousness.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: You feel the ache of it in every conversation.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Shops and restaurants may be open, but there's little enjoyment to be had knowing that there's a young Israeli woman who gave birth into a musket captivity.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: It really is quite an extraordinary turn of events.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a boy taken from the kidwitz also who turned 13 years old underground.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, Colonel Aladdin told me he hasn't had a good day in the job since the war, not while he walked past posters that are missing in the middle of teleview every day.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ribbons and then the yellow ribbons up for them.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: They'll fly in the wind until they returned, and then flying all over the country.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Something that here in Australia we're also trying to find way up all thinking of this.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: These 230 plus hostages who at this time have not been released.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And until then, there can be very little progress.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So gone, he's the cousin of the Valaxy Pats and Darwin Asher Penns.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: He speaks about the trauma his family has faced and they're coping more than a month later.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guy, welcome to the What I've Like podcast.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for your time at this very difficult, I suppose, moment in your life and in your family's life.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you are the cousin of Ravik Katz and family with Daron Usher Katz, both of whom have been traumatized by this horrific event that occurred on October 7th.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Guy speaks about the trauma his family has faced, how they're coping, and I suppose it's more than a month later.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: But first, let me say, Guy, hearts all over the world are aching for your family.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: We are all with you.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: You are not alone.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Lebra.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: A special edition of What I've Learned Podcast, Shining Light on this tragedy.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is with our shared humanity that we shine this light and hope to help bring them home.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Guy, tell us a little bit about what happened October 7th, in your own words, and from your understanding from your family.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the Saturday of October 7th, early morning.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually on my way home from a camping trip up north with uh some friends.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um what we learned, we wake up and uh just do our coffee and uh get a lot of phone calls.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my hysterical mom, I thought she was hysterical, but then I understood that uh she was very uh uh that exactly what's going on.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: She said, tells me, Are you on your way home?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because there is a war.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I said, okay.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Quickly we understood that it is a war, it's not another operation, it's not another uh uh terror attack, a single point, something like this.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: We understood it's big.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I know my family is down there in uh Niroz, which is a beautiful small kibbutz, which I've spent a lot of my childhood in.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my aunt lived there all her life, and my uh two cousins, Ravid and uh Michal.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of my vacations and weekends, that's where I spent a lot of beautiful childhood memories, and it's a really pastoralic place, uh, kibbutz, and especially that one.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot a lot of good memories and a lot of shared memories with Ravid uh through my childhood.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're we are three years apart, so we also grew kind of uh close to age cousins, and uh and we are very close family, so I know the kibbutz very well.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when I understood that uh the extreme of what is going on there, so uh it started.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I got I got home and we started getting uh information from uh the media and then from uh family.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do have uh I immediately texted the Ravid that was maybe at 10 a.m.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: in the morning, and I saw I sent him a WhatsApp and I saw that the message did not even reach his phone.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I realized that uh it's not good, but I was still waiting to see, you know, maybe his uh I was waiting for his reply.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can save it until today.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Every now and then I go into the WhatsApp and check the message to see maybe there are two Vs, you know, but I I I know it's not uh gonna happen.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I hope he survived.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: His his wife and four-month-old baby were safe with neighbors in the sealed room.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, what happened is that uh this is talking to his uh wife.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, of course, afterward when they were rescued, about uh a day or two later, uh more than 24 hours later, that they were safe.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so what I've learned is that around 6.30 they already had uh sirens going.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there were rockets.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: By that time, there were already uh terrorists, Hamas terrorists inside their kibbutz.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody sleeping Saturday morning, 6.30.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing that woke them up was the rockets.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: They quickly received the messages on the uh uh on the kibbutz uh group that uh people already seen some uh terrorists inside the kibbutz.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: When Ravid understood that there are uh that they are inside, and it's not just the rockets that they have to go to the safe room.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: He grabbed his wife and his four-month-old baby.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: They ran to their neighbors.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't want to, he knew that he's gonna go out and and maybe help, or he didn't know if they're gonna stay in their safe room, but they made the decision of going to their neighbors to be together in their uh safe room because uh he knew that he could not uh he doesn't have a lock in his safe room, and he understood that there are terrorists inside the kibbutz.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they grabbed the baby, a couple of diapers, ran to the neighbors.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: The neighbors are a family of two young parents with three young children.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: They went into the safe room with them.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Ravid at some point uh left the safe room and went outside.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the details exactly what went out there, but he went out of the house to protect his family from outside.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh in the safe room is his wife, Ravital, with uh their four-month-old baby Alma, and the other family of five.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: They are closed in the Mamad in the safe room.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of hours later, uh, of course, all the messages through the kibbutz, and they hear from neighbors that they hear shooting and they hear shootings outside, and it starts to be uh a real war zone.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody understands exactly what's going on.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of hours later, it's maybe eight, nine o'clock, something like this.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Already the first terrorists, murderers coming to their house.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is and now they're in the safe room, the wife and the baby and the other family, uh start uh trying to uh uh open the safe room door, which does not have a lock on it, because it's not meant to be a shelter.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're not meant to that's a big issue, yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not a lot of them didn't have locks, which is because that's not the aim of it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's meant to be, yes, which is a big problem, which I understood a lot of families were that that was an issue.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and now uh all of us uh have uh some you know uh things that even for me in my house that we after this nobody I think felt safe in Israel, improvise locks for the door, you know, to hold the handle and stuff.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: But what happened there is that they don't have a lock.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: That the husband of the family, there are terrorists in their house trying to break into the room.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now we know to break into the room, to kill them and kidnap them.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the husband is holding the door, holding the handle with the terrorists outside trying to break in.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: The wife is holding holding the window of the safe room, holding that one closed.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: When Ravital, Ravid's wife, is hugging the their three children under a table, and her own baby, putting her, she's thank god she's breastfeeding, because that's maybe uh what uh saved them uh later, I will tell.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the situation trying to break into the uh room from window and uh from the door, they're inside, massive shooting on the door, like a lot of uh bullets.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow, somehow, they were not able to open the door from the shooting.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: The husband actually also got hurt from one of the bullets that did was uh able to go uh come went through.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So he was just wounded, but lightly it wasn't uh something in his leg or something like this.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't even feel it at the time, of course.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And somehow the terrorists lost this little fight.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Did they say did you say they start they set fire to the house?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you're saying?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, with them in it in the safe room.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: The they are in the safe room, locked in the safe room, holding the door locked in the safe room.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh the terrorists uh uh uh uh uh weren't able to open the door, the shooting inside they weren't able, they just burned the house uh uh outside the safe room.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the safe room is basically an integral part of the house, usually on the side that is yeah, uh more uh thicker walls and stuff like this.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: But so they just burned the house now.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: In the kibbutz, it's not so big houses, it's usually small, modest houses.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So they burned the house, and this is and and this is the situation now.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: They're stuck in the safe room, they cannot come out, they'll be shocked, and the house is burning.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: They stayed in the room as long as they could.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the smoke did start coming in.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: They tried to wet the towel to put under the it's not sealed, and uh also the heat started, the door was starting to be very hot.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the baby started.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um Alma, the four months uh odd baby, started the first one that started suffering from the smoke.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Then also them and they realized at some point that uh they have to make a very hard decision because it's either they die for sure in the safe room burning to death, or jump out of the window and hope that nobody's right there uh on the other side.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: They have no idea if yes or no.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when the when it uh became acoustic and they're critical for they see that they cannot breathe anymore, and the door was already uh very uh hot for the fire on the other side.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: They opened the window, and after a couple of minutes, and they jumped out, the seven of them.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Terrifying.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Seven of them, because they were the three children, the neighbor, the baby, and Ravid's wife.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: It is yeah, Ravid and the baby, and the and the family of five, the couple with three children, the seven of them jump out from the window and run about less than a hundred meters from their uh house in the kibbutz because it's been for the last 20 years that they're getting uh uh the rockets from Gaza.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is a kibbutz that is maybe, I don't know, three, four, five kilometers from the from the fence with Gaza.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's very close.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: All their agriculture, all their fields, they're working on the fence.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're working, they're right there.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're first line, first line to Gaza.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: They are the first line of the Israeli defense, you can uh you can call it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is how they live.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Since they've been uh rocketed for on and off 20 years, so in the kibbutz, every about 200-300 meters, everyone has a safe room at home, but also outside, there's a lot of open space in the kibbutz.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So there are uh like armored rooms that are just open, but you can go in like a little maze that you go in.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have a door or anything, it's an open building, but it's a safe uh building that is made for if there is rockets and you can't make it home.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: You just go into one of these, and after the when it's safe, you can come out.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they come out of the window.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God nobody's there.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: The terrorists are doing what they're doing in other homes by now.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that there were people that didn't get out of their homes.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we know that there were a lot of people that didn't.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a miracle, really.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh just it's a miracle, you know.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people, a lot of people that I would uh very uh secular or non-believers, let's say, after the stories that we hear.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know anyone that doesn't say uh thank God and uh and pray, and uh you know it's it's a miracle, it's a miracle.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they went uh and they made it to this uh safe, uh safe uh small uh building that is just uh somewhere in the uh open areas of the kibbutz, got in and just sat down quietly, three children.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure about the ages, but which is something like 11, 8, and 6 or something like this, and uh young baby, and they were sitting there quietly and hoping nobody will hear them and nobody will come to check inside, and they had to sit there for another several hours.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: It must have been it's around 10 hours that they had to sit there with half a liter of water, and that's why I say thank God that the baby is breastfeeding because she could be on her mother's breast and uh first of all have uh food and liquid and not be uh get dehydrated in 10 hours for a baby this old, and uh and also be quiet, not uh do a scream.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: That is really that is a very powerful image, I have to say, that you've just described.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very, very moving, that you know, that really nature made sure that that baby and that mother helped protect her, and both, as you say, as it giving food, but also keeping her quiet.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting, it was 10 hours, is a very long time to have those children sitting quietly and to try and not move.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that is actually another interesting point because it it really took such a long time.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was Saturday, it was Shabbas, and because I think it was Singh Khatchara, and then like like in a way, I think the length of time that people were nobody could possibly imagine the horror that was unraveling.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that's everyone was sort of in shock, including clearly they didn't get, you know, they didn't get attention for a long time because nobody fully appreciated until after the massacre just how horrific what had happened.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody realized that it could be um that horrific.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And during that time that they are hiding over there, Le Vital, the my cousin's wife, she did not grab her phone with her, so she was not available the whole time.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you can imagine where we were when you know, trying to get information from them because at that time we're talking to my aunt the whole time, in contact with her.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: She is Ravid's mother.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: She uh, as I said, lives all her life in the kibbutz.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: She's uh in her early 70s, just celebrating her.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is this Efrat?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Efrat?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, so this is this is Ravid's mother.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is Yardena.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yardena, okay.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: She yes, and she also uh survived in uh just another crazy, crazy, horrific story.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I get the uh of course I'm get the chills when I tell it to you uh now as well.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine how it was for me to hear it like uh so uh at that time when uh uh uh Ravid is uh out there and already missing, and uh Revi, Ravital, his wife, is with the family in the safe room in the story that I said, his mother is she lives by herself.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is Yardena.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: So she lives by herself, very strong woman, very independent, yeah.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: She's she's amazing, she's she's just amazing, and uh and I I I knew that she was strong, but I didn't know how how uh uh strong and uh uh she is uh uh and so what she did is she went into her safe room, which again does not lock.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: She went into her safe room, she went and laid under a bed, just laid on the floor under a bed.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: By that point, she knows that there are terrorists in the inside the kibbutz, and she knows that they're gonna come at some point.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: She's by herself, she's 70 years old, laying under a bed in her safe room, texting with my mother and her cousins, and my mom passes us the texts.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: She was there under the bed from 6:30 in the morning until 6:30 p.m.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: when the first soldiers arrived to rescue her.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: When they arrived.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: In those 12 hours, four times terrorists came into her house.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: She tells first it was the murderers that came in, and the first ones around uh 7 to 8 a.m.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they came into the safe room and did not see her, uh, tore down her house, you know, just took whatever they can, stole stuff, you know, like grabbed food and just broke broke stuff just to make a mess.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't see her, and they left.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then the uh the second group came in again, and like this four times, and she's laying under the bed, not brief when they come into the match.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I stopped my breath so I can save my life.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And 70 plus, I mean, it's unbelievable.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Another miracle, huh?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: In your family.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Another miracle.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so and um and she saved herself.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And not only look how how how uh I don't know how to say this word, uh what an inspiration.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: She what she did is that she understood that they it's gonna keep happening, that maybe again they will come in and she has to save yourself.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: When at the moment that she felt that around her home there's nobody, she actually came out of the bed and went to the front door of her house and made sure it's open, but wide open, and it stays open.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it looked like it's abandoned, so it looked like already people were there.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's been cleaned out, yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been cleaned out.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So she went in the middle of this chaos, opened the door, came back and laid back under a bed.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: A very she says a low bed, she couldn't even twist her head right and left.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, at some point when they came.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Into the safe room, she says she sees their shoes.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're right there standing.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: If they would lean down just to look under the bed, they would see her.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like it wasn't any like just a miracle.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because she was right there.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, even that the bed had uh the base of the bed was solid, not just uh not just see through, like if yeah, if it had transparency, it would have been because she said that one of the terrorists actually picked up the mattress to look, and she's under like if you would lean down, and at some point she says, I thought I was gonna, I was sure I was gonna die.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just closed my eyes, turned my head towards the wall.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to see their feet anymore, and not breathing, just looked at the wall, waiting, and and uh four times they came in and left, and that's it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that that brings me back to what you said about the uh army that came, that it took them so long to get there.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was uh after 1 p.m.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: or 2 p.m.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: where she sent us a message that she got from the uh uh kibbutz security that they sent whoever was still available, that uh there are soldiers uh getting close to the kibbutz, not entering yet.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, I think it was 6:30 p.m.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: when we got the message that they are safe with the soldiers.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they're also safe is uh relatively thing, but they were with soldiers, but they still also that situation.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we know at least that she's with soldiers that guarding them, they put all the kibbutz members that survived in a one house and uh guarded it when they still know that there are terrorists hiding in the kibbutz, so fighting is still going on around.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just an incredible story.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, meanwhile, Ravid has been taken.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh Ravid was probably taken very early that morning because, like I said, it was 7:13 a.m.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: when his phone was last uh seen.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that uh it was very early when he was uh I believe that he was taken to to Gaza.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: We hope and pray that he was taken alive.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: We have no information about that, and for now we are more than five weeks now.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: This Saturday is another week that is since then, and um so we do not have that information now.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So his wife, his little baby, and all the the I mean, and um and well, the mother, it's like it is like a bit of a horror movie.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't feel I mean, and what we're all hearing and what your your storytelling is really profound.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do you have faith that, or you have no idea?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: How how are you mentally, what is your thought process?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like you talk about the miracles, and so that gives you faith, yeah, because you go, well, there's you know, the baby and the children, and the neighbor and his wife managed to survive and the mother, but we'll talk about review that there's there's review, but there's also his sister, so we can come to that story next because that is also a horrific story, and I've seen all the photos, and that's quite terrifying.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: But to give us a little break in between, what is how are you thinking?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: How is your family feeling, and how are you processing other than this traumatic story?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Five weeks later, who would have thought?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Did you think that that we'd be here five weeks later?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is a nightmare it's it's a nightmare for everyone.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's super difficult to be also involved with a first circle of a close family member.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the dimensions of Israel, not only physically also population-wise, and also the uh Israeli mentality is that really everyone knows each other.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, absolutely.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it affects there's not a single person, single Israeli, that it does not affect him from first or second acquaintance.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you can imagine the stress level, the panic of everyone here.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's what I'm going through is just it's too much, it's too much that I can process.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what I feel about everybody.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And this is stress.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Stress is having too much tasks or too much information that you cannot uh process or you cannot do and do all these tasks, and and and it's very, very intense.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that the human uh soul and body is able to process something in these dimensions, so cruel, so big, in such big uh numbers.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So this kind of comforting for me, actually, that because I feel I'm not able to really process it, but I'm saying, like, okay, no human should should be able to.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, in a weird way, it's a little comforting for me.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I feel normal in all this time that nothing is normal, but it's um the biggest challenge is to help the family, the immediate family, his mother, his sisters, all the survivors.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: I saw uh Revital and the baby, they are in uh the baby is just amazing.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: She's she's alive and vivid, of course.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: That that that is that is the beautiful part of the f of the story.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: But her mother is in a big drama.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: She is now they are evacuated to a lot, they've been living in a lot in a hotel for a month, and um and she's in uh uh very big uh uh stress and and she does not right now she does not want to leave the safe room over there.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: She lives with the family, so she can be in a safe room.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: She feels only safe to sleep in a safe room with her baby.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: There has been more than a couple of uh sirens in a lot, which was very, very also uh alerting for her and took her back.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if she had like a couple of weeks, she can feel the quiet and start to gain a little bit back of confidence uh in the security, self-security feeling.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: So every siren that uh went on, it takes her back.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I just can just can't imagine one siren caught her, she was in the room, and my aunt Yardena was not with her at the moment.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're staying together in the room, Ardena and Revital, and the baby, because she does not want to sleep alone.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: She had a siren, she had to grab the baby, was sleeping, she had to grab the baby again from the bed and run to the safe place in the hotel.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I just it's exactly what happened to her on this Saturday morning.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine the flesh breaks.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: So now we are a big uh uh trauma, and uh so I can say that her situation, like thousands of others, is uh not not easy.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy, it's going to be have to be taken care of, it'll be years until we get over this.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's um it's sitting here, it's sitting here in the air.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: The energy in Israel is uh stress, depression.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh and as I feel that it's individual, I feel very um sad and uh weak and uh insecure.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: But as a family and as a team, and I think as a country, and you hear about all the beautiful stories that are going on, the civilian, this is the strength, you know, like we can choose, isn't to to to we can choose to fall down from the from the uh and and go down.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and sink into yeah, or rise up with strength.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or strengthen, or strengthen from the people we have uh above us and our future and what we and what where we need the uh to go.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just praying that this baby will uh be able to grow up with the father.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I pray too.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm wearing this heart of solidarity.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are friends of ours in Sydney that have sold hundreds and hundreds of these hearts, which are being sold all over Australia in solidarity to try and raise funds, but also just to show that we're all in support of your families.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not just happening in your country, the entire globe is resonating in the Jewish community.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Bring them home now.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: It is a mission that we all have, and this is very much part of why you're I'm talking to you, because I want to shine this light on this really dark time.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me, and I know this is hard because it's a lot, but can you just tell me a little bit about the Ravid Sister Duran Katz?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a terribly difficult story as well.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And her two daughters and her were taken hostage separately.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: So more trauma in the family, more reconciliation of how do you process this?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that this is also challenging.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also, uh Ephraim Katz 70 was killed, and her partner Gadi Moshe Moses is also captive in Gaza.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is unbelievable.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: That as you say, everyone's connected and interconnected, and your family here, it's like a microcosm, isn't it?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Of like everybody is traumatized, and this is another example of another branch of the family.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me a bit about that story briefly?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Doron also grew up in uh Nir Oz, and uh also I remember her as a little girl, and of course, in the Ephrat, and it was she also grew up in the in the kibbutz, Efrat still.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, she lived in the kibbutz uh obviously until uh that day.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: She left the Doron left the kibbutz and she lives somewhere in the center.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: She has her two daughters, and that Saturday, which was uh uh uh uh our holiday, that was the weekend that she went to visit her mother.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: And she came to the kibbutz where she grew up, and uh she came with her two daughters.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Her husband did not join them for this visit, and and this is where it uh got her, and she's at her mother's house with her partner, and uh they are in the safe room, just like everyone else, from 6:30 in the morning, and the terrorists came into their house as well, and uh at that point uh at some point Gaudi actually came out and tried to negotiate with the terrorist to save his family, also uh you know a brave man.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Dawn is visiting her mother with her two daughters, they're in the safe room together with Gaudi, and uh so the negotiation with the terrorists did not work, they're all kidnapped.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, and that point we don't know uh anything about it.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: The next thing that happens is that Hamas releases uh video footage from their body cameras and head cameras and stuff like this, all the horrible uh uh uh things that uh they were evil enough to capture it on video and and and and release.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so Doron's husband sees all the video footage um his uh Doron and his two daughters uh uh kidnapped to uh Gaza by the Hamas video that they released, identifies them.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um he sees her phone location already in Gaza.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this was very early in the time when we were not and still not getting the amount of people that were kidnapped.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: We understood that there are people that were probably kidnapped, they were talking about 10, 20, at the end of the day, it was probably 25 people.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody understood uh the dimensions of this thing.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: So he's the first one to find out that his family is kidnapped with these two baby daughters, and yeah, so this is where it starts the this is when we start to understand the dimensions of of this uh thing.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just about this story that we have hopes that we see them alive being kidnapped.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we are the next thing that happens a few weeks later, two two or three weeks later, is that they found uh Efrat's body.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And tragic.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's 70, yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: She's yes, and this is I don't know for me.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, just hoping that they're all safe and alive and together, and suddenly knowing that Efrat is dead.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you must you probably you and you you understand what went in everybody's mind about uh Dawn and the daughters.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're hoping that they're all uh uh alive and to get the sign of uh life, uh and and this is where the family is at.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: No family is uh it will never be the same again.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I saw Yuri spoke out today.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: He actually spoke today to remind the world that his wife and two daughters are still being held captive, um, and spoke really powerfully.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And clearly, you know, I suppose, as you say, the world is changed forever, but I think not just for the local communities, but for all of us.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what can we as a global community do to assist?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what do other than to tell these stories and to remind the world that there are still over 230 kidnapped victims?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: What what is it that other than, and I know we're sending food and and we're we're challenging, you know, uh some of the parliaments and the communities, especially in the US and Australia and a lot of the democracies that are trying to ensure that this does not because in a way the global community, part of it's really supportive, and part of it's just gone completely crazy.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm hoping that uh the world uh and people, the world is is is people like now.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: I see more than ever our government that uh and the people that are working here, the civilians, how much power we have as people to influence and to do stuff.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been five weeks, five long weeks, and uh as I understand you know already the the interest in it for people that are not personally involved is less and less.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but we cannot sit down and wait for uh someone to maybe do the job.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like we are not gonna do the job, we just we we can influence our governments and our leaders, they are here for us, they are serving us, and they have to hear the people, they have to see what is good for the people and international in international uh support on this case.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think that uh can be influential also on foreign leaders to support the Israeli uh uh government in uh staying strong and doing the right thing and bringing the the people uh home and being uh uh courageous and taking some difficult uh uh decisions and also paying the prices.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if everyone supports that, I think it would be easier for for a leader to to take a difficult decision, like releasing other hostages on our side, like giving anything.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: There is no meaning right now in this war, there's no winning and no meaning if those people don't come back home.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't care.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing about conquering land, it's not.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's conquering any land right now.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just to take control of the security situation and getting to the hostages.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing is the hostages right now.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's the only thing we have left from this war to not even to be a winning, it's not to win a war, it's not to lose.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's to be able to go on.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Without this, I don't see how you can go on uh and put this behind you, which will take anyway a couple of generations to put this behind you, but at least to do the first step.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think the the the it's crucial to have the support of as many people, to uh shout your voices, to make sure that the leaders know that we just want to live, we want to have family, smile, wake up in the morning.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants the same.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Also, the Palestinians in Gaza, which are not Hamas, they just want to wake up and go to work, have a coffee in the evening, love their wife and kids, go fishing and celebrate holidays.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's the essence of life for me.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, guy, I couldn't agree more.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, really what you're talking about, which is where we started, which is the shared humanity, and that if we stay focused on that while accepting the complexities of historical, political, you know, multifactorial issues, at the end of the day, these are innocent lives, these are innocent family members that have been kidnapped and need to come home to their families.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, on that note, I would like to thank you so much for your time.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is stressful, but I hear hope and I hear faith and I hear focused unity in your community, and I can tell you it's in our community too.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, wishing you praying for peace and praying for the return of the hostages.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, guy.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: I want to show you this.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Deborah, thank you so much.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: And show me.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is beautiful.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, can people, where can people does this go to um, if people get one of these, does the the money go to help with the exactly, exactly.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's a donation, it's a it's a thing that they and you and you buy these.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh where did they buy them?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Please tell our audience where can they get one?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you I will send you the link and you can post it with the uh with the podcast.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: I will I hope they I hope they send it to Australia.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, if not, and there are uh many people who want to buy, I don't mind ordering it and uh sending it to you guys.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh it's amazing.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, this is like the the what the soldier wears.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: The dog tags, yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, very special.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we have also these hearts of solidarity, and there are so many people, there's candles with the kidnap victims plastered on there, and selling these candles to keep them in mind's eye and to keep the light shining bright, and we will do that.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, guy.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wishing you and your family all the love and peace, and hopefully, they'll come home soon.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Deborah, for a good thing.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my What I've learned Instagram for up to dates.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, comment and curious.