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Alexander Surian: Meet the new Jack Kelly in Disney's Newsies · Theatre Life with Ben Kercheval

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: But like, what a what a terrible cruise this has become.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: The stories that the captain is telling are terrible.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: These are no Moby Dick stories.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: These are like the absolute worst anecdotes possible.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me was also why it was kind of funny and endearing, is because like this guy's doing everything he can to impress people and he's scraping the bottom of the barrel.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Theatre Life, a podcast for Theater People by Theater People.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Ben Kirchhoffal, and today we continue our conversation with Alexander Surian.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you missed our previous episode, we did a deep dive on Alexander's persona, Eva Destruction, in the drag universe.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of really great insight there, a lot of good learning moments.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was very fun.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed it.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Fully recommend you give that one a listen.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: But uh today we're gonna take in a little bit of a different direction.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Alex has been so kind to give us some more time.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're gonna talk community theater.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is more of the medium that I'm familiar with, but Alex and I have done three shows together.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about those, talk about some other ones.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be probably more of a free-flow conversation than maybe the last episode.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a little bit more meandering in some spots, I'm sure, but we'll have some fun with it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a good uh there's a good place to start with this, because it does uh translate a little bit from the last episode.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to talk first about Urntown, because when we were doing, I want to say it was Treasure Island together.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: This was this must have been summer 2024.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they had announced the season for uh the Bassdrop Opera House does it a little bit differently from some of the other places.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like Georgetown Palace will announce it for the calendar year.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say Lockhart's Gaslight Baker does the same thing, but Bass Drop Opera House, the new season will start typically like in the fall, winter, and then it'll carry through until typically about August or September of the following year.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they announce you're in town, and I think you and I are in the dressing room getting ready, and the like one of the first things you said to me is Penelope Pennywise, and you ended up getting cast in the role, but that's that is a role that is traditionally, if not exclusively, cast for a woman.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to be either Bobby or Officer Lockstock.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: What ended up happening was the choreographer saw my audition and then told Jonathan I think they would make an amazing penny.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then I see the callback list, and I have a callback for Officer Lockstock and Penelope Pennywise, and I lost my shit.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I freaked out because I did not think that that was possible.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, especially at a theater in Bastrop, Texas, where it's a little more conservative in that area, and the opera house is such a safe space in that red bubble.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of like I then shifted gears from Lockstock and Bobby, and I was like, oh, Penny is mine, and I will have her.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I will, I will do everything I can.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of like a all right, I've got to approach this where I'm like try to sing it in the original key, which is astronomically difficult for um someone with my range of voice.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I learned it in and out.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And with Penny, it's like that is such an iconic theater character in general for people that know you're in town and know of it and have seen it done before.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, it was like I knew that Eva was gonna step into the theater for the first time, and this was kind of like a thing where Eva was at like a 20%, and the rest was who Penny was because I didn't want to look exclusively like Eva, I wanted to be traditional with the mindset of this is me stepping into this role, this isn't Eva taking over.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the makeup was muted down a little bit, and the the styling was true to the character, but for me, it was like thinking about her characterization and then realizing first of all, like there was also the mindset of being I just took a role from another girl as a as a quote unquote guy in this space, like I took I took a role from a girl, so there was also that guilt that I felt at first, but also to be clear, it's it's more competitive for women in general.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's very tough in general for women to get a seat at the table in a lot of spaces, and with theater it gets even worse because it's a very uh the the female presence in theater is a lot heavier than with guys, and you can never have enough guys in theater um to speak exclusively to the binary of things for a second.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is difficult for all accounts, but I will say that like when I stepped into the role though, like I I told Jonathan my plan, and I was like, I want to present in the traditional way, but if you allow me, I would love to take this to a place that I've always envisioned with Penny, and that is leaning into the ridiculousness of the show and bringing some flair with what I know with my drag persona and uh giving her a voice with this show.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I'd because that's one of the origins with uh my love for theater in general, is you're taking all of your authentic talents and you're slapping them in a character and putting it on a stage.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And for years, I had always wanted to return to theater because I had taken such a long break since high school.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And with You're in Town, I dropped everything I was doing for the show because I had wanted to do it again for so bad.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I had waited 19 years to do that show again.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was kind of like a okay, now that I have the opportunity, I want to showcase my authentic true talents and not just lip sync abilities.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do this authentically and not just sing like a man, quote unquote.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I want to sound like Penny, the way she's written in the score and in the show.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of like peeling that back and understanding what that meant.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully, like we had a great cast, like um, and everyone was on board for what I was putting out there, and so was Jonathan.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the beauty of having Jonathan Young as uh a director, is he leaves so much open for you to make choices you want to make.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he's one of those directors that you know sits back and you're like, What would I do here?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I don't know.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: What would you what would you do here?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like Jonathan, yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like what tell go with like one of his favorite famous lines is do what your heart tells you.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes as an actor, you're very caught off guard by stuff like that, where you're like, Oh, I've never, like, even in high school, you'd never have that much freedom.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And when you get to uh, you know, a professional setting, you're like, Oh, I actually have some wiggle room here.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So then you take those chances, you you take those risks, or you make that joke or something.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I don't know, I think it was the perfect formula for making something out of such a long waiting period and finally being able to do what I wanted to do with it, but then having that opportunity to really make that character my own, just kind of like how I did with uh Hedwig recently this year, is you know, not so much leaning into Eva, but having elements there that helped me drive that character home.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's almost like Eva is a is a the vehicle that kind of helps drive it a little bit.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's like a conduit to play off.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so because what's your range normally?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Are you baritone?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I would say I'm baritone.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh some people would consider me to be like a tenor, but then I don't know, because like I feel like people have like the mezzo tenor, I think, is where like if we're gonna really gonna like be specific, but honestly, like my voice can go very high and it also can go very low.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very broad range that I didn't realize that I had comfortably.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but yeah, on paper, uh I would say like I'm somewhere between baritone and tenor.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Was was Mark your music director for Eurotown too?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Mark Lanetti.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um how much of a role did he then have in getting you to discover that?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because like you said, you you have a range, and then I'm sure Penny has her own range, and you're trying to kind of find that that melding.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: How much of of sort of working with him were you able to then find that voice out of all of that?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I so something about me is like on my own time, I'm kind of doing that work myself, and then I go back to the theater and I show them and say, Does this need to be adjusted?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Does this need to be worked on?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Does this need to be fixed, or whatever?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And with Mark, it's like once you show him what you can do, and if you're not hurting yourself in the process, because you can strain your voice very easily with some of the the vocals that we've been approached with in these shows.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um with Penny, like I felt so much tightness and so much strain in the beginning, but then over time, like um, because he is somebody that will work with you to make sure you sound at your healthiest and your best uh with the range, but then it's kind of up to you to uh maintain that and figure out what truly works.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, when Penny goes her highest in the show, that was when like I went from one way of doing it and then I went home and discovered there was this mechanism in my throat where I could like flip almost and reach these notes easier and healthier.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not the prettiest sound, but it is in like it still drives it home in a clear way.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it still is on brand with her too.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's she's not supposed to be this beautiful operatic character.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's she's harsh, she's very direct with her vocals in the show, and so I use that to my advantage where I was like, okay, I can hit this note.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: It may sound a little more nasally or whatever, but it it works, and they loved it.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I look at the footage back um when we recorded it, and I was like, okay, this sounds good.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I remember it.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: You hit the note, send the audience into a frenzy.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it was fun.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the way that Bass Drop works though, uh at the opera house, it's like with the schedules that we have.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you don't have a lot of time to really rehearse everything over and over again.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you at least get the framework of what you're needed to do, and then there's a lot of stuff that you need to do on your own because the turnaround for these shows are a little quicker than some other places, or just what you're used to in high school, where sometimes you'll have three months to rehearse a show instead of just one.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that's how it goes.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even in Broadway, sometimes you have a lot less time, uh, from what I understand, and sometimes like you're thrown in and you need to have this memorized in less than a week or the next day, or so like there's different demands for every type of show, so it's like a lot of these productions have been great for like my brain muscles to uh adjust and do things at a quick moment's notice or whatever.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, Mark's great though, he'll he'll work with you and make sure you sound good for sure.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, visually uh you think back to kind of what you're saying where it's like okay, Eva's at like 20% here.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: It never felt uh out of place.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Your Penny felt like she belonged in that universe that Jonathan and then the entire cast created.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's great uh hair and makeup with the way that you had Penny.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels like it's something that fits with and sir and serves the kind of story that you're doing.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the way that I I looked at Penny, was I I just looked at it and I went, yeah, that that feels right.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there are a lot of things about that show that felt right.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not always that something necessarily feels real in the tangible sense, like not everything always has to be hyper-realistic, but it feels appropriate, or it feels visceral, or it feels genuine, or we talked about this in the last episode.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: It feels authentic, it feels real to the type of thing that you're doing, the type of story that you're telling.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the that was a general compliment that I would have of you're in town in general, is that every person in that show, big part, small part, felt like they belonged.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been the fun of getting my sea legs again with theater in general, is realizing what I was not grasping or truly getting the hang of, or even being taught in high school, and then going into a more professional setting and realizing that there are choices to make, there's approaches you can have towards a character in a scene in a song where you go off of years of like watching other people or seeing like TV, movies, etc., and you think, oh, this is the way you want to go about it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: But no, like you need to feel comfortable with your body and your presence and what you want to do with the scene.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: The thing about like shows like Urentown, though, is first and foremost, like there's a lot of other shows like this where sometimes the show just requires a hundred and ten percent ridiculousness, and the energy needs to the energy needs to be maintained at a hundred and ten percent with your physicality, with your delivery, the timing of the jokes need to land, or else the joke is gonna flop, you know.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And with Penny, it was kind of like one of those things where she's another person that kind of lives as almost like the straight man of the show where jokes will be bouncing off of her and she needs to react to help the joke land.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And but she also has her own moments, and when you deliver certain lines, it's like you don't I I look back on moments where you go from a mindset of, oh, I need to learn these lines, and then you recite them.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: But then now that I'm learning theater again in a more detailed sense and on hand uh perspective, where I'm absorbing all my lines, and then it's like you practice actively listening, you practice actively reacting to help drive the scene, help drive your line delivery.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like depending on how you do that, really depends on how you should be like delivering those lines.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's the beauty of a character where you think it's one way, but actually it's another open-ended character where she can be so many other things than just one way, and that was kind of like the fun of discovering that, um, and realizing that there was so much more to theater that I had not grasped uh when I was younger, and then as an adult, I'm rediscovering and discovering new ways to approach uh such iconic roles like her.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I love character surprises that you find, and I think it's the hallmark of when characters are really well written, where and you don't always maybe realize that they're well written until you start living in them and you start becoming them.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that really well-written characters do is they they give you room to find those choices and to find moments of levity where maybe it doesn't look like there is levity on the page, or you find moments of you know, reflection or sort of introspective, you know, things, and and uh it's really cool when you discover the layering of them.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes really good real characters that are fun to inhabit and live in, is when you find those little nooks and crannies of details and surprises, and and it's almost like you're given the permission and the freedom to explore those because they're so much fuller than than you realize.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's cool.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and it's like sure, as an actor we want to be the most authentic and we want to make everything feel real, but then it's kind of like that thing where sometimes the show can just be fun, like as long as you lean into like what the vibe of the show is and read the room.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm a character, like my biggest thing um is immersing myself in the universe of the show, or immersing myself in the scene, and that is putting my whole body into it, whether it's physicality, my face, whatever, and like when I'm in rehearsals, I'm locked in, I'm making sure I'm absorbing everything so I understand what is being asked of us as actors from the director, the uh choreography, whatever.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that really lends to like the again the realism and the the um the authenticity of it, um where you aren't just putting something on and then taking it off, and it's just one note the whole time, and like it really helps me get into character by like really looking at my surroundings and understanding the universe of which we're playing.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Talking just now about physicality, I can't imagine too many roles more demanding on that front than prelude to a kiss.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because and that was our first show together, and we had some commonality there because it was your first show back in a while, and it was my first show back in a while.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the role of the old man, and I'm already gonna forget Samantha Plum player, uh I forget the character name.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Sam.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Rita.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Rita sorry sorry Sam.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's all that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the the f the physical ask of those roles because you've had a freaky Friday moment, you've swapped bodies, you now have a young woman inside of an old man's body.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that you you are very good at.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: You the physicality of it, you really do take on this thing.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: What's explain the challenge and the process of of having two people in one and and trying to pull that off?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because you first you're one thing, then you're another thing.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole lot happening there.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was crazy because again, that was my my first show back into theater officially, and immediately I am taking on a role that I did not think would ask so much of me, but then as we got down to it, I was like, oh, this requires so many different elements.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, with with all of this being said, though, I I pull a lot from playing Dungeons and Dragons.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and because it's a role-playing game, and you have to react and act as the character that you're playing as in that game.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it lends a lot to like character study and choices and impulses and motivations, and why you're doing this, why you're saying this, why did you do this, why did you react that way?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And going from that and going back to theater right after really helped me understand where I needed to take the character of the old man.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's his name in the script.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like it it's labeled as an old man.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm gonna say he's in his.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: 70s, because that's how I felt, is like he is in his 70s, he's living with lung cancer and cirrhosis, and then Rita, her soul is then absorbed into his body, and now I am Rita in this old shell, and it's like I had to on the side watch Sam rehearse and watch her mannerisms and her little ticks, her little fidgest, her everything to make sure I could mirror that into like if Rita was then the old man, it's like, well, she's still Rita, she's still gonna have her tics, she's still gonna have how she but then it's like, okay, while doing that, how does a person with lung cancer and cirrhosis act and how do they hold themselves?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: How does a 70-year-old body stand?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do they position themselves?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: How do they posture?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do they uh, you know, act?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was it was two character studies in one where I took the femininity of Rita and I translated it to this old dying body, and you know, just even the the the detail of coughing in between lines, because that's what happens when you have lung cancer.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like yeah, and cirrhosis like it that you're living with chronic pain, and you know, there's a hunch, there's a there's a there might be a limp, there might be some gingerness to certain movements, and some uh you're slower and your speech might be a little impeded because of the different challenges that you might face.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was throwing me straight into the deep end for sure with this character because and then telling me like, okay, act.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, let's break this down.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really challenging, but it was the most fun that I had um in with some of the roles that I played, because it started me off on a on a good path of creating those habits for other roles after.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because with uh Captain Flint and Captain Smollett in Treasure Island, it's like Captain Flint had this, you know, cocky walk to him, and he had this thick Scottish accent, and he has blind in one eye and he was aggressive.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: But then after he, you know, meets his end, then I had to change into Captain Smollett, which is more upright, more short, snappy, and more no nonsense, and uh more direct and abrupt and heroic and all this stuff.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um with Penny, it's there's there's femininity and those qualities that exist within Penny, but there's a toughness and a hardness to her, and there's a more tomboyish nature to her uh because of how weathered she is um from dealing with you know people who want to take advantage of her kindness sometimes, and then uh with the captain and anything goes.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's again returning back to a little bit of Captain Smollett in Treasure Island, but kind of like I had more fun because it's like you you look at the subject matter of anything goes, and you have more fun with it.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can be a little more loosey-goosey with it.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like he's a blundering idiot, but he's also like he's compensating and he's trying to maintain his position and his his uh control, but also like you know, things are happening left and right that he can barely keep track of, and that's kind of where I took that character.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the captain had an air of it was all about to unfurl at any given moment, and he was doing everything he could to keep it all keep it all together.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Smalllet even in the face of of life and death and the utmost danger, you never felt like Smollett was was in too big for his britches or whatever.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: The the captain uh that that it all could have gone sideways at any moment, and I'm not sure he would have been able to handle it.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, and that was I would say, like, it's funny because as small as the captain's role may seem, like on paper, it ended up being like it, like he ended up being such a main character, like in my eyes, because like Jonathan had me involved in so many different moments in the show outside of the script, and then you know, with the choices that were given to me, and also the liberties I took to have fun with this character, it's like the captain became such a like main person by proxy, and like um it became one of my most enjoyable roles, honestly, after because I was exhausted after we just closed that show, but then looking back, I'm like, that was so much fun.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: There is a lot of the captain off the page.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's I think that's the way that I look at it, is there were so many moments of either full-on improvising, the great story, one of the great stories from anything goes, which by the way, I've got the anything goes.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you do, yes, I just noticed that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I do have the anything goes.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you do, is uh it ranged from everything from full improvising, which one of the great things that we I really enjoyed it, was we come out, uh Sue Toth, who is um Mrs.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Harcourt.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Mrs.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Harcourt.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: She's thinking the ship's gonna sink.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: She's got all of her jewelry, uh, the life preserver, she looks like a hot mess.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you come out with the uh highfalutin passengers, and you had a new line pretty much every night.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: There was a it ended up becoming a bit of a of a rotation, and then it deviated into I thought of this today, and I'm gonna roll with it, and sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's not supposed to be funny, and whatever it was, it became this snapshot into the captain, who he was, it became a snapshot into the universe that we were living in, and it was one of the most enjoyable parts to me because it's not on the page, it's just a choice that you're making, it's a line that you're improvising, you're trying to impress the whatever high roller passengers you have on this ship, and it was and it was everything from that all the way down to even non-verbal improvised moments.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was it was the the uh moon face Martin and Irma, and they're practicing their oh, we're gonna scream if we see if we see Billy uh on the ship, we're gonna we'll scream and we'll let you know.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And Billy's underneath the sheets, and they do this whole, like, oh, you know, they do this whole the whole thing.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't you don't have a line, you don't respond verbally, but and there are gonna be people who are listening to this on Spotify or Apple and you can't see us visually.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you do this like Okay, like this just you know It's like a like you're about to say something like a uh never mind, and then they walk away.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it's all of these little things that fit so well in, like it's it makes the captain so well rounded and so again real within the universe that and I think that's part of why he became a little bit of like you said, like the main characters Reno and Billy and Hope Harcourt, but like he kind of entered the chat a little bit on just these people who felt you know very much kind of within the universe, and the captain was showing off the comedic chops because he had very he had a lot, he did.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that so let's talk about ad-libbing for a second.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because the thing is, is like I ad-libbing can go two ways.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Either you you do it right and it lands and you're allowed to do it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because normally you're supposed to ask permission, but the captain, I didn't necessarily ask for permission, I just did it and it got great reactions during rehearsals, and then it just never I was never told to stop.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So then because it because it felt within the confines of of who he was.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't improvising something and you go, well, that doesn't fit.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly, because again, it goes back to the study of the universe, the character.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the captain is walking on, like Jonathan had me walking on with you guys with the other passengers.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's like, okay, the captain isn't just going to like he's he's gonna be telling some type of anecdote, he's going to be trying to impress these people because he's trying to make up for the fact that there are no celebrities on board except for Reno Sweeney, and he's having to make up for a lot because this is now, in the passenger's eyes, a boring voyage.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: So he is now trying to bolster things up a little bit.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: So in my mind, it was kind of like let's turn this into something where this is now a swinging door, like, and you're getting 95% none of the context, and you're only getting five percent of the context, and now you're getting like the end of his story.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I yeah, I had the most fun thinking of like what would the captain talk about?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's re what's relevant to the 1930s?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: What is relevant to the show and like where they are, what's relevant to ships, living on the sea, blah blah blah.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, I just had so much fun thinking of the most wack-adoo shit to walk on to with you guys, where I would preemptively tell you, okay, laugh this time, but I wouldn't tell you what I would say because I wanted never tell us.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, but I wanted that reaction from you guys, and then sometimes like I had one where I was like, it was it's such a tragedy what happened to the Titanic, but my heart will go on, and like, you know, I told you guys not to laugh because I, you know, the Titanic's a sad joke land, it's a sad topic, so it's like it'll be funnier if we don't laugh and we give the audience the chance to laugh because of how random it is, but also that last line punching it home, you know.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there wasn't so much a science, but there was a method to the madness of me not stopping this ad lib.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: And going back to the top.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was gonna say real real quick, I just I I feel also the anecdotes that you came up with.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of the reason why they worked is because of what what you were just saying, where okay, this is becoming the worst cruise ever.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: So what are the anecdotes that you can tell that when you think about him, you're like, oh god, this sucks.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: You come out one time and you go, you know, the triangles are really hard instrument to play.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, what a terrible story this is.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is the bet the what's the what's the absolute best thing that you can come up with?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the bar is so low that you're like, you know, it's all in the wrist, and and you know, we as the uh as the passengers, the highfalutin passengers are like, oh yeah, you know, whatever, whatever, we laugh, but like, what a what a terrible cruise this has become.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: The stories that the captain is telling are terrible.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: These are no Moby Dick stories, these are like the absolute worst anecdotes possible.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me was also why it was kind of funny and endearing, was because like this guy's doing everything he can to impress people, and he's scraping the bottom of the barrel on some of these things.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's like with ad-libbing, it's like sometimes like you'll get slapped on the wrist, you'll be told, like, this ad lib wasn't approved, don't do it.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, this is that didn't land, it doesn't work, don't improvise, just stick to the script.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: But they kind of let me off my leash a little bit with the role, and I it was the first time that I had the opportunity, so I took it, and it was kind of like uh no regrets, like fuck it, we ball, you know, type thing.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it was a great acting exercise, you know, improvising and also knowing the differences between what will help comedic timing and what doesn't.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: But there are a couple things at play here.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: One, you have to have comedic timing, and that's a little bit of a you either have or you don't.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's not always something that you can manufacture there.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is is good is improvising in that situation has to be earned.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um there has to be a level of trust and respect for again letting it serve the story.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: There have been plenty of times where I've seen an improv moment or an ad lib thrown in where it potentially derails the whole scene.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or it yeah, or it will unintentionally or intentionally break everybody on stage or break your scene partner.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, by the way, by the way, that's the worst kind of improv.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't I don't like improv that is designed to shatter that world.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, no.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like it.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, look, if you just this is this is where trust is really important.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because to to go back to the example we were just talking about with the the captain anecdotes.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, the reason why we're talking about this, I was a passenger.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was one of the highfalutin passengers.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is you would come to me and to Christy Branch and and Anik Baker and Mike Salvo and you would say laugh or don't laugh.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we've set rules, we've set parameters of what we're gonna do.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the three of us have the ability and the wherewithal to stay focused and listen and uh let that be the guide.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you introduce something to us that we're not ready for and one of us breaks, to me, as uh harmless as it may seem, that's a violation of the trust and the chemistry and the rapport that you work so hard to build up with each other.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Your goal is to tell the story.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you do that through the script, and sometimes you do that through improv.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: But your goal is still the same.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: If your goal is to make people laugh, you've one, you've deviated from the goal of telling the story, but also breaking character is I I I hate it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: You made me do it once and anything goes, but you didn't mean to.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: It it was just it was so freaking funny that that I that I did it and I had to and I had to hide it, but I'm also like not proud of it.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's sort of funny to talk about now after the fact.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but I like in the moment I'm like crap, you know, I I don't like what happened.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it's a way to disengage the audience.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: Takes them out of it.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people are easily influenced by like the the slime tutorials out there on Broadway of like Broadway recordings where they'll see like uh a two-time Tony winner uh ad lib outside their character, but it's iconic and it's hilarious because people know this actor and they have the they have the chutzpah and the grounds to stand on the gr the the platform that they have to do something like that, even though it may or may not be allowed, but it's like okay, that is funny, and it's like I feel like sometimes actors sometimes forget themselves a little bit when it's like this is this is a community show.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: We are doing the best we can.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Please stick to the material if you can, and please check with us beforehand to do ad libs, or at least fill the people in in the scene if you're gonna add something intentionally.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Don't try to break people like on purpose.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's evil.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of evil, you're going from one show right into the next.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah, self-inflicted villainy.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't we haven't talked about it yet.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're Jack Kelly in Newsies.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, yeah.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Which uh by the time this I've got my script right here as we speak.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: By the time this episode is released, the opening will be tomorrow, yeah, September 4th, and you're running for a month.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my goodness, the three weeks of anything goes, if that didn't kill us, one month of newsies will.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what take me through the the impetus of that because you were I think we were really early on in anything goes, and then you had the audition for newsies.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Did Lisa uh Holcomb, who's the director for that, did she approach you about that?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um this was into it on your own.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I saw that newsies was up on the schedule for the season, but then I didn't consider it because I was like, oh, I'll do anything goes because I want to work with Jonathan again, and let's see if I have the opportunity to do newsies, but then you don't realize how uh how soon the auditions come up sometimes, and you lose track, and you're just like, okay, so we're doing a blocking rehearsal for anything goes, and literally all of a sudden I'm like, Oh, auditions are happening as we're rehearsing in the other room, and I was like, Okay, well, maybe, and then something in my head was just like just do it, just do it, go for it, see what happens.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because something that I have a habit of doing is not going outside my comfort zone, and um it it scared me at first, but then um, you know, I just I I had uh a little clip of follow your heart from You're in Town prepared, and um I didn't have to do a monologue, I I did a a side for Jack because Lisa wanted me to read for Jack.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: So then um I got in there, did it just like everybody else, and then I had to do a dance call audition, which I couldn't be there for because I had uh a drag show to do later that evening.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they sent me the footage of what I needed to learn for the dance call, and then the next day I learned it in two hours, recorded it, sent it to Michelle, and then the next day Lisa called me and she was like, I want you to play Jack, and I was like, Holy shit.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool, yes, of course, yes, but also what have I done?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what have I done?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because like I had never been in this position before where I'm like two shows at once, and then right as we're opening one show, we're starting rehearsals for another one, and the weight of that really hit me once we started, and then it feels impossible, but it it really was fine juggling two things like that.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the trippiness of going from one universe to the next that weekend for our shows with anything goes, and then Monday I'm going to rehearsals as Jack, it really does mess with your mind a little bit where you're like committed to one show, and then you kind of have to split that commitment where you're just like, oh, I'm excited about this other musical, but then like I have to return to this universe where I'm a ship captain, and it it's crazy.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy, but it's it can be it can be hard to do because uh it's also just the like the bit the mental bandwidth to get out of what you were doing, and then because you want to give your all to both, right?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Even if one is opening weekend and the other one is okay, you still have you know, whatever, six, five, six weeks of rehearsal, and you're still in this infancy stage where you're blocking, maybe script's not out of hand yet, and you're still kind of kind of feeling your way through it, yeah, but you still want to be available mentally, right?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for to to be there.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: And on top of it, those are both physically intense shows.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for as difficult as anything goes was for the dance numbers, newsies is every bit of that anymore.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: I said anything goes is like a warm-up for what newsies is going to be.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because like just feeling what we had to learn for anything goes, and like, you know, I hadn't worn tap shoes in years, and then learning like jazz modern, like light ballet choreography, I'm dealing with a back injury during this production, so then it's like realizing how much of your body you have not touched upon uh and felt in a long time because you're not used to doing that.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: So then, you know, going from that and then the difficulty of you know what newsies will be because Jack is the whole show.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: He is the main character, and Nuzies is a dance musical.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think that intimidated me at first, but I think with the team that we have, like I've I'm very excited to do what is asked of me, but also like just know that I'm going to be taken care of because we've gotten to know these people pretty well by now, so it's kind of like a collaborative mindset where it's less snappy and more of just like how can we fix this problem or what can we do to feature you but keep it comfortable and safe.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: So big cast too.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: It is a lot of kids.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I a lot of kids.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of kids, and I'm happy about that because it's like it really shows, like um, you know, with newsies, it's about kids hawking newspapers on the street, and it's nice to have more of that uh authentic element in it.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the kids are great, they're they're ready to work, they're they're attentive, and they're chatty, but you know, it's like I was I was I was chatty during rehearsals all the time when I was younger, but everyone still knows the job that they have to do, and I'm excited to work with all of them.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we actually uh touched upon this um I think the second or third rehearsal where Lisa communicated to the children think about your characters, like even if you're not a named character, what would your newspaper kid do or how would they act?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: How would they walk?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: How would they react?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, this is my lifeblood.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: Character study is what I enjoy the most out of theater is how would you play even the smallest character or the biggest character?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: How would they stand?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: How would they how would they talk?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: What what inflection would they use?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like what would their accent be?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everything.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just my favorite part.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think about like even like the smallest, uh, the smaller roles where it's like some of the newsies are kind of like in the background, but they're still present.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the um you have to think like these are street smart, street-raised kids that live off of scraps or like barely any food.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're hustling, they're being led by one character and you know, his new friend, and they're trying to survive.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I really want these kids to have that opportunity to think about character development and like uh creating that energy with this time period.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, again, this is my favorite thing to think about, and I just I have this thing in me where I'm like, I want to impart this excitement onto other people sometimes where I'm like because it makes it so much easier to work off of somebody on stage when they already have that kind of built in sometimes, and I see it in their eyes and I see it in their body language.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, this person is a hundred percent here.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: I am talking to this character as this character, and I feel it, I'm immersed, and it's just it's it's it's awesome.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've yeah, there there are a few things at play here.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: One being that you're always sort of under this belief that it's true, but you're under this belief that you know you're just being a kid up there, right?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so when you have a cast full of kids, well, there's no excuse.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all are a bunch of kids.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: So go up there, be kids, don't have any inhibitions, go play.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: The world the world building aspect of it, I think only helps that for them, is you just go use your imagination, you know, create this this whole being and this whole universe that you can go and live in.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's really it's really fun when you get to this point, and it it's different for every production for various reasons, but it's fun when you hit this stride of uh everyone stopped acting and it's just just R.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: And exactly.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really cool when that happens when you've stopped trying to figure it out, and you're just you're just going.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: And something too is like um something that I love to see is kids like out there doing community theater and also just theater outside of school because it's a very different world compared to how we were in school.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um for me, my biggest goal with working with kids in theater is like I want to first of all, this has to be fun.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we we have to have some fun like doing this, it like make it enjoyable, but don't lose focus because clearly we all have a job to do.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the adults are working, they have to drive long distances to be at the theater or whatever.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's like when whenever I'm in front of those kids and we're on stage, it's like I want to feel like Jack to them.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I'm not saying that I want to think and be like a kid, but it's more of just like I want to be as loosey-goosey and like not make it seem like such a strict environment around me, um, because I want them to have the freedom to feel what they feel and make the choices they want to make if they so choose to.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, there's a permission that you're giving them that as the first on the call sheet is not insignificant.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that I have the mindset of right now is um, especially with Jack, it's and this whole musical in general, because we're in New York in the like 1899, and things were different back then, attitudes were different, you know, everything was different.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's like these kids are tough, they're street built, and but they're loosey-goosey, and they're not afraid to be themselves.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's written in the freaking book, and so for me, I I went into this musical thinking, okay, from the captain who is so you know, tightly wound, but able to let loose, but he can't let that guard drop.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with Jack, it's now I'm stepping into this role where the idea of cringe and the idea of self-embarrassment towards like choices and certain things you want to do and say, would certainly be, you know, laughed at like today with the standards we have and the way we speak.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like I want to promote an environment, especially with kids, to just have fun and be free and not be dictated by uh the idea of cringe and embarrassing yourself in front of other people.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, some of them are shy, and I was shy and very reserved until I felt safe with the people I was working with when I was younger, but it's like this is now stepping into a less formal character, and now I'm kind of like thinking about like a young man who is so complex and you know, um he's he's smooth, he's loose, he's it like he's just very like um and he's he's he's slick with the ladies, you know, and to me there's such a challenge with this character, and um I think about that, but also like everyone around me, like how we're all gonna play off of each other, and I don't know.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone's like stepping into their own slowly but surely, but yeah, I can't wait to see what this production will look like when we open for sure.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've got a great group.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me neither.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Opens tomorrow.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, December 4th.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Feels like it.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely opens, opens, and then uh we're gonna have a month-long run for that.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: After that, you gotta take a break, right?
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is my last show of the year.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then uh yeah, we'll see what next year has to bring.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, once uh September's over, I'll be going back to drag again and performing and working and doing whatever I can in the the fall spooky season of October and then see what November and December have for me.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: But honestly, like I feel like I did a lot of theater this year, and I can take a little bit of a breather.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you've been on a run between Hedwig, anything goes, newsies, and that's not even talking about it.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: We we obviously talked about it in more detail in our previous episode, but going on tour uh with Dracula, and it's uh 2026 has been a year, but uh you've earned it.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's been a lot of fun to work alongside you and uh and watch you thrive.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been really great wend on that.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank my guest, Alexander Surian, again.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're running on like three hours of recording time here.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Editing for this is gonna be a lot of fun.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, can't wait to do that.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you can find Alexander on Instagram at Eva Destruction.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow all of our socials on Instagram, on Facebook, on X and Blue Sky, and TikTok at Theater Life Pod.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow Theater Life on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube so that the next conversation finds you and find everything at theaterlifepodcast.com.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: New episodes drop every two weeks.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to catch news opening at Bass Drop Opera House running September 4th through the 27th.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll even see you there.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, I'm Ben Kirchhoffel.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.