Latest / Back In The Closet - Two Crazy Cat Ladies / Sound Therapy for Cats with Dr. Amaya Espindola

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Sound Therapy for Cats with Dr. Amaya Espindola · Back In The Closet - Two Crazy Cat Ladies

0:02
I'm Jay, I'm Adrian, and together we are those two crazy
0:05
cat ladies I'm going to cut. You.
0:09
I think I just peed. Buckle up.
0:11
We're back in the closet. Welcome.
0:18
To another episode of Back in the Closet with the 2 Crazy Cat
0:21
Ladies. Guys, we are so honored and
0:24
excited to be joined today by none other than Doctor Amaya
0:28
Espindola. All the way from Spain.
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All the way from Spain and we are going to be talking about
0:33
sound therapy for cats, which I know so many of you guys are
0:37
really into. And some of you guys have
0:39
actually helped us along the way with some of our cats and using
0:43
music therapy or sound therapy for cats.
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So I know you guys are going to really enjoy this episode
0:48
because she's like the expert in this subject.
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Now I don't know that many of you, I, I, I don't know how long
0:56
a lot of you have been with us, but like it's been years.
0:59
It's been years. But we used to go live together.
1:02
We used to do lives on Facebook and stuff together pre like
1:05
podcast and things like that. So excited to be able to
1:09
actually meet in real life Doctor Amaya in Spain just.
1:15
Like to say that you are a very very good hugger.
1:17
Yes. Very good.
1:20
Yeah, I love hugs and I was so excited to meet you finally
1:24
after all these years, right? I know, I know.
1:29
So for our audience joining us, maybe listening in the podcast
1:32
or from our community that might remember you or for people that
1:36
don't quite remember you or I have never heard of you, could
1:39
you share a little bit about who you are, your background and why
1:43
you're just so. Changing the world.
1:46
Awesome. Oh.
1:48
Thank you. I'm going to blush.
1:53
Well, I, I would say that I started because I was afraid of
1:58
cats. And that's what started my
2:00
journey and how I decided to as a vet, I decided to move that
2:06
and say, OK, I'm going to face the fear and see what happens.
2:09
And that became a passion. And I had many adventures along
2:14
the way. And one of the things was I, I
2:18
started working at a cat shelter and that's what changed
2:21
everything. Working with the cats, having
2:23
the time to work with them, being able to practice a little
2:28
bit of more integrity, holistic views.
2:30
And once the pandemic hit is when, OK, I said I had to take
2:35
everything. Velvet already existed at that
2:37
time, but it was more home and you know, just for certain
2:40
clients. And after the pandemic is when I
2:43
decided to go worldwide and launch the real Velvet online
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services with consultation. It's more a second opinion vet
2:53
where you can get insights on holistic medicine for cats,
2:59
behavior, nutrition, natural nutrition for sure.
3:03
And now one of the things that I'm into is neuroscience and
3:08
sound therapy. And you think I'm not looking
3:11
back after this this? Is it this?
3:15
Is it I? Love this.
3:16
I I can't wait in your brain and on this episode and find out
3:21
like more about why this is like your passion that you're not
3:25
turning, turning back from and like the differences that you've
3:29
seen using it because you've already been, you know, been
3:32
practicing with, with sound therapy.
3:35
And it's, it's, it's mind boggling to me.
3:38
So when I was in college, I actually wrote a thesis on music
3:41
therapy for humans because I found that, like, for me, I
3:46
didn't, I wasn't thinking about animals at all at that time.
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But for me, it's still like, I listen to music every day, all
3:53
day long, right? Like, it is, it is part of,
3:55
yeah, it is part of my and, and it's, you know, specific genres
3:59
depending on my mood, right? Or where, you know, if I'm high
4:03
anxious, I'm listening to like Kenny G jazz type music, right?
4:09
And if I'm like just excited and, and like just want to like
4:13
pump it up or like I'm maybe I'm sleepy and I need to wake up,
4:16
then I'll listen to more like pop and you know, upbeat.
4:18
I love all kinds of music. But but this is this is super
4:23
interesting that we're going to that we're going to discuss how
4:26
it affects cats specifically. I love that you said that you
4:28
really got into neuroscience and sound therapy because you think
4:32
it's like sound therapy as kind of like a woo, but you're
4:35
talking about it from a neuroscience point of view.
4:38
Can we can we kind of start there?
4:40
Yeah. What do you?
4:41
Yeah, that's where I want to start actually, because I, I
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always, I always believe that I, I believe in all that wool
4:49
stuff, right. But I try to be very practical
4:53
as a vet because you need to make sure that you create steps
4:58
on how to actually make it work. Otherwise you can say, just play
5:02
music and see what happens. OK.
5:06
But there is a lot of background that I wasn't, wasn't even aware
5:11
of. So to understand a little bit
5:14
why it's important and why I always also challenge most of
5:20
the behavioral things going around all the some of the
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research on behavior, I'm not entirely happy with it because
5:30
they don't understand the neuroscience behind it is that
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we always talk about the autonomous nervous system, the
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one that we call the adrenaline, the sympathetic and the
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parasympathetic branches of that.
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And that allows us to fight or flight or relax, right.
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So that's kind of the basics and that what what we understand so
5:56
far of what the nervous system does.
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But The thing is that there is a new thing.
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Well, not new, it's pretty old. It not many people talk about it
6:05
is the Poly vagal therapy sorry theory, which explains that it's
6:11
more complex. It's not just about fight or
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flight, It's not just about relaxing.
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And once after the stress or the shock happened, you can relax
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and go directly to the parasympathetic, right?
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So what the Polyvagal says is that there are different ways
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for you to, whether to relax or to collapse at the same time
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with the parasympathetic Dr. And let me explain this in, in, in
6:43
normal words, because this is this is kind of complicated.
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So when, when, when you, when you encounter stress or any
6:53
situation in life, because not always even that something is
6:57
not dangerous for you, but it's new.
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You can stress, you know your first reaction is OK, it's new,
7:07
so your body relax to it. And this is how we adapt to our
7:11
to the environment. OK, if we are had a beautiful
7:15
childhood, which I don't know many people who did.
7:18
But anyway, if your life was really nice and everything was
7:21
nice, you adapt to your environment and your nervous
7:23
system will react to the new things in a more calm way.
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But if the stress has increased by any any trauma or any
7:34
accidents or anything that happened, then your body will
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react in a completely different way.
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So how does this happen? Is that once you hit the stress,
7:46
the body would say, OK, what is this?
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Is this danger? If it's danger, I may react in
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two different ways, fight or flight, or I may also go to a
7:57
social engagement and gather with other people to feel safe
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or I may collapse and shut down South suddenly.
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We had at least three different ways to react to something that
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before we only said this too. So the parasympathetic Dr. has
8:18
also the collapse and the play dead kind of way and the social
8:22
engagement. So social engagement is
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explained that if you don't feel safe, you try to go near the to
8:30
the nearest your friends or you know, just try not to be alone.
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That's the social engagement. You look for partners, right,
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Which this is the one we are going to try to explain through
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voice based sound therapy, right?
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You try to to give safety to, to the nervous system by social
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engagement, right? So the bagel, the vagus nerve
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that goes all around from the brain to all all in the back has
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very several branches. So it can affect the heart rate,
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it can affect lungs, it can affect all larynx, voice,
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breathing, the ear, everything right.
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And it has it's separated indoors and ventral.
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So it depends on if you collapse or if you go to social
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engagement. You know, it uses different
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branches of the same vagus nerves.
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OK, so that is that is how you explain a stress or something
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that happened, you know, a shock that you had and that will allow
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the way you regulate that and the way you move from because
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all of them are necessary. Sometimes you need to run, you
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know, sometimes you need to fight, sometimes you need to the
9:47
social engagement and sometimes it's best to play dead.
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But The thing is when any of those things aren't unregulated
9:54
and you maybe switch from relaxing to to automatically
10:01
fight or you know, the typical thing that I pet the cat and
10:06
three times and then he bites or hyper.
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The cats suffer from hypersthesia that they may they
10:12
may be really loving cats and suddenly they will attack you.
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So all of this is that they don't have that nervous system
10:20
regulated. And this is the basical thing
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that what we are doing with sound therapy, what we're trying
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is to teach the body with different techniques how to
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regulate. Because the way you perceive the
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environment is something that it's, well, it will shape your
10:40
personality in a way, right? But it's not definitive.
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So because as as being that we have neuroplasticity, we can
10:51
always learn and this is the fascinating part of it.
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So I hate when they just fixate on this is the cat is like this
10:58
or or they they always will react that way.
11:03
No, it's the way they perceive reality and that's why we have
11:07
to work on. So you're saying that sound
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therapy can actually shift perception?
11:13
Yeah, momentarily of course, but if you practice this, then you
11:17
can become become a safety point for your cat in all different
11:22
situations. So it's, it's essentially like,
11:25
you know, cats, you know, working with a female
11:27
behaviorist, it's like use your words.
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So we have certain words for this or positive reinforcement.
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If we say this word, they know they're going to get a treat.
11:36
So it's kind of that same association then?
11:39
Well. That is more conditioning.
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You are conditioning a certain word to a certain.
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That is more a the Pavlov kind of reaction.
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So I get a treat, I will get a benefit from it.
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This goes much deeper. This goes to the to the root of
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how I feel safe. And this can affect even
12:04
transitioning a diet. It can go that far.
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OK, so start sharing like some practicalities here for us.
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So maybe we do have a cat with that is really reactive.
12:17
You know, you've had them three times and then they bite or or
12:22
you want to transition a diet like what?
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What are some things? What are some of the main things
12:28
that you've seen are really effective?
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Somebody's organizing the closet.
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And he's like, hey, yeah, let's talk about this.
12:40
What are some of these issues that cats may be dealing with
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that we humans don't realize that sound therapy could really
12:47
be that breakthrough for us? Yeah, well, I can tell you the
12:50
story of how I I found out. And then I studied all this
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because I it was an accident. Like every single thing that it
12:59
becomes amazing is an accident. Usually it happens like that
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well, as if people for the people that don't know, I'm also
13:09
a singer. So I started and and I am a
13:13
person that it's very driven, very social.
13:16
You know me now and you know, I can be very intense sometimes.
13:19
So if you work, if you work with cats that have coming from a
13:24
shelter or they are very fearful and they are hiding and, and you
13:28
are the vet that has to microchip them or vaccinate them
13:31
or, you know, everything just to have the take protocol for the
13:36
shelter done and everything done.
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And he had and everything has to happen in a certain amount of
13:41
time. At first I was kind of OK, how
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do we do this? You know, we got the towels, we
13:48
got everything to handle the cat.
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And one day, I remember I walked into the adaptation room and all
13:55
the cats were, like, disappeared.
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Yeah. I, I think I I went in like,
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very fast and just, you know, very intense.
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So I said, OK, I understand. I was like, all right, yeah,
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that was too much for everyone. Let's all calm down.
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And I started singing one of an Argentinian song that I really
14:19
like. And I just sat down facing and
14:24
facing back to them just just to relax.
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And I was like OK let's breathe, let's relax.
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And I started singing. For me, that's a way to regulate
14:33
myself, which I didn't know by the way, but it is not.
14:38
And I started singing and one of the cat, there were like 2
14:42
little sisters, like tabby sisters.
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They were coming and they started like like coming around
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and one of them just got in on top of my shoulder and I was
14:53
like I couldn't believe it. I was like, don't move, don't do
14:57
anything. What are we doing that this is
15:01
this is working, right? And that was like a surprise.
15:06
And then I said to the to the the nurse that was working with
15:10
me and I said, OK, we have to sing every time we're doing
15:13
things. And we decided to sing, but I
15:16
didn't know anything about this. And of course, the handling was
15:20
much easier. And then we practice with other
15:23
vets when we had to take them to the hospital for any reason.
15:26
We always like, can we avoid using anesthesia because we
15:29
were, you know, as a shelter and as a vet taking to another vet,
15:35
you have a little bit of more authority.
15:37
So it was like, don't do any anesthesia.
15:40
I hold the cat for you and and we've managed to handle cats,
15:47
very traumatized cats without anesthesia just by talking to
15:52
them and working always voice based and keeping them calm,
15:59
grounding ourselves, breathing because we had to keep it calm.
16:04
And that taught me a lot about how I I was able to regulate by
16:10
singing, which I didn't know at the moment.
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I understand the way I do today and I was able to manage cats
16:19
much more easy. So imagine if that was placed in
16:23
every single clinic, imagining if well, there are studies,
16:27
there are studies in dogs like you use less anesthesia if you
16:32
if you put music, there is a there, there are sounds, for
16:37
example. Well, this is not very happy,
16:39
but there is one in the wildlife that certain certain animals
16:45
react more to human voice than to the predators itself, because
16:48
they are more afraid of us now than the the predators because
16:53
of how we are hunt, hunting them.
16:56
And so, so there is an impact on The Voice, on the tone.
17:00
There are other studies as female voices, it seems to be
17:05
better forecast than male voices, which is not always
17:08
true. But you know, there are some
17:10
studies that will suggest that the the voice has an impact so.
17:16
I noticed I found a study on on cats.
17:19
You remember when we were emailing back and forth, I was
17:21
like, I wish there was more research around this, but I but
17:24
we did find a study talking about the effects of music on
17:28
behavior and and physiological stress response of domestic cats
17:32
in the veterinarian clinic. And it says.
17:35
Music for cats. Yes.
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And it, and it says exactly what you're saying that that, that
17:40
there was a positive benefit on both the handling and the, and
17:46
the stress levels and in cats and in vet clinics using music
17:51
therapy. And, and they, they also
17:53
analyzed the difference between using classical music and music
17:57
is specifically designed for them, which I, I really, I
18:01
really like that study and I, and I really enjoyed the work of
18:05
David Tay with the music for cats.
18:08
And but classical music can work as well because what I found out
18:12
especially, and then the other story is my cat.
18:15
He has a hypersthetia syndrome. And he's the I said he's my
18:20
other singing teacher because when I started singing certain
18:26
songs that were like, you know, I like Aretha, Aretha Franklin,
18:29
I like Janis Joplin. So imagine the tone of what I'm
18:33
talking about. And he will go and attack my, my
18:37
ankle. So he will like try, try to get
18:38
near my voice, but to attack me, right?
18:42
And I, and I again, I didn't know what I was doing until
18:47
when, when I moved here and I started working more in hotels
18:50
and singing and, and using my voice and preparing myself much
18:54
better. I learned that I regulated
18:56
better now. And he doesn't do that.
18:59
Now he actually wants to be on me when I'm singing, especially
19:04
these high pitched notes. But suddenly he gets overwhelmed
19:09
and he needs to stop because he, you know, he, he relaxes a bit,
19:14
but then it's like, OK, yeah, it's enough.
19:16
But he started attacking me to this.
19:20
So the difference, it's huge and it's amazing.
19:25
You know what, what you can do. And, and he relaxes now, he
19:31
likes to be near me when I sing. Or for example, when I, when he
19:35
moved to when, when I first met him, let's say he was very
19:41
frightened as well. And he was, he was afraid of
19:44
the, of the broom. You couldn't just clean your
19:47
house or because he was always afraid.
19:49
So I became without knowing all this was intuition and I just
19:53
simply nailed down. I said, OK, come here.
19:57
And I just became like his shelter every time he was
20:00
afraid. And I started using my voice.
20:04
So I have I have several trials with him.
20:09
And and then I started trying this with my deaf cat and
20:15
amazingly, she also reacts. Really.
20:19
So is it vibrational? She has to be closer.
20:23
That's the only difference. She has to feel my voice close,
20:29
closer. But it seems that it in humans,
20:34
it seems that your voice can activate certain parts of the
20:37
brain even in deaf people. Wow.
20:42
That is fat. Imagine the potential.
20:44
I mean, I, I'm like always, I never understood why certain
20:47
clinics would say, you know, you have to whisper because we don't
20:51
want to stress the cat, you know, but you can whisper very
20:55
nervously, you know, and that won't work.
21:00
Well, there's a there's a good question then.
21:02
So when you find so, well, first of all, is your cat a fan of
21:06
Janis Joplin now? Well, the way I sing it now,
21:09
yeah, he likes it, but he likes more.
21:11
He likes the classical songs and he likes songs that are in CC
21:18
pitch. Oh, OK.
21:21
Yeah, I realized that because I started looking at certain songs
21:26
and every single song he likes to be on me, it's AC or E Manor.
21:31
No, sorry, a Manor. So which is the relative?
21:36
And I realized that that kind of scale has no alterations.
21:45
If. You look, it's all, it's all the
21:47
when you look at the keyboard, the C scale of C, it's, it's all
21:52
white. How do you call that the white?
21:57
Key. Exactly.
21:59
It's all white keys, so it's no alteration.
22:02
So he likes that type, that type of sound, sound.
22:06
Other cats like different things.
22:08
It's not always the same, but I realized he starts purring when
22:13
a song. It's in C&A minor.
22:16
And I found this because one day somebody send me a song, a tango
22:22
actually. And it was really, you know,
22:24
tango. I know it's not an easy music,
22:27
isn't it? It's very complicated.
22:30
And it was played by the harmonica, which my cat would
22:33
run away. And he was actually enjoying it.
22:36
And I was like, I don't understand, why are you doing
22:40
this? And now I started looking
22:43
because he's my my study guy. I study everything with him
22:47
where when he gets tired, what type of music he likes and he
22:52
doesn't care if it's a high pitch or low pitch.
22:54
He likes the you know, as long as he's in city or there is
22:59
another one. I'm I'm still trying to figure
23:01
out if E minor also is good for him, but so far those are.
23:07
So then, well, my next question is we're talking about the the
23:12
nervous whisper, right? How important because we talked
23:15
to a lot of a lot of beautiful people just like you, other
23:18
veterinarians as well that we, you know, call woo woo where
23:21
because and we talk about energy a lot and how how energetic our
23:25
cats are and how important our energy is because it affects our
23:31
cats. So how important.
23:32
So just for all these beautiful people joining us tonight, how
23:37
like if you were to teach, just like the average cat parent
23:40
maybe doesn't really have a a great voice, but loves to sing.
23:44
I feel like our cats don't care about that, but might not, you
23:47
know, I wouldn't know what pitches what she's she's the
23:50
musician here. I'm I'm like a.
23:52
Jay's actually a very good singer.
23:54
But I. Heard her.
23:56
I wouldn't know how, I wouldn't know how to be like I'm going to
24:00
sing this in E minor or. A.
24:03
Whatever, like I wouldn't know it.
24:05
I wouldn't know any of that, right.
24:07
So how important is it that we our energy around singing to our
24:13
cats? How important is is that?
24:17
Or is that too broad? Your energy before you use sound
24:20
sound therapy. Sorry, sorry again.
24:23
Like, do you set your energy? You know, you're talking about
24:25
the vet clinic. You sat down, you took a couple
24:28
deep breaths, and then you started singing.
24:30
So is that really important? Like for us humans using this in
24:34
a practical way, should we set our energy before implementing
24:39
sound therapy? Yes.
24:40
And I would say that there is a technical part that it doesn't,
24:44
doesn't mean that you have to, because when people say I Can't
24:48
Sing, everybody can sing. It's not, it's not something you
24:52
will have your voice and it's unique and it's nobody has the
24:57
same voice. You know, it's a kind of a,
25:00
something that it's unique, which creates that really nice
25:04
bond with your cats and with people as well.
25:07
And there you have their commercial voices, which are
25:12
not, are not, aren't always regulator or, or, or, you know,
25:17
they are a little bit fake at the same time because they try
25:19
to post something. So when we when we relate to
25:23
that and we say I Can't Sing because I don't sing like Mariah
25:27
Carey. Yeah, I don't want to sing like
25:30
her. I want to sing like me, right.
25:32
This is how how my voice is good.
25:34
And so there is a technical thing that it's the diaphragm,
25:39
the diaphragm, which is the way we use it to breathe and we use
25:43
it to ground and relax. I've noticed that people that
25:48
aren't relaxed or grounded usually don't know how to use
25:54
that muscle. Right.
25:57
And, and especially women, and this is also cultural.
26:02
We have in our minds that thing that we can sing.
26:06
OK, That's the first thing we get in our minds.
26:09
Oh, I can't say I wasn't allowed to say if I, if I speak loudly,
26:16
people would say things. So there is a lot of judgement,
26:19
a lot of it. And then we have the cultural
26:23
side of the Corsa in in the past that we will breathe from the
26:31
ribs up and it will be a shallow breathing.
26:35
And the shallow breathing only gives a superficial voice.
26:40
So the tendency for most people, for most women, it's going to be
26:45
a voice that is so soft like this.
26:48
And when I get mad, it's going to be very nasal and I'm going
26:53
to start screaming here and here.
26:56
Nobody understands. Nobody, nobody's going to listen
26:59
to you. You know you're just going to
27:01
create anxiety to to the other person.
27:04
Sounds like anxiety. And this is the thing.
27:09
So that's why if you whisper, but you're whispering like this,
27:12
it's there is no diaphragm involved.
27:15
You know, you're just using this part of the body you're pressing
27:19
with your abdomen and there is no movement there.
27:23
So when the man actually had the opposite, they don't use the
27:29
diaphragm because they use the belly too much.
27:34
They tend to, you know, so the diaphragm is always doing like
27:37
in the man is it's a little bit deeper, but it still is not
27:42
working properly. So the idea and how you get
27:46
there is I always, I like to use visualization as a way to, to
27:53
understand. But just imagine you're trying
27:56
to set the cloth on the table, right?
27:59
So the diaphragm, it will go like this, right?
28:06
The only thing you need to feel is confident.
28:10
That's the only thing you need to be grounded and actually use
28:13
the diaphragm properly. Because we're here, we are not
28:16
trying to sing like anyone. So there are more things you can
28:19
do with the diaphragm, but the first thing is that when you're
28:23
when you're exhausted with something, you don't want to
28:26
say, you know, you've been arguing all day and there's a
28:30
point where you say this is enough, This is enough.
28:34
And then you get, you know, the, the word has a weight it, it
28:39
weighs on the, on your body and you feel it that fall here.
28:43
And that's, that's the, the actual good word you used in all
28:47
the discussion you had. It's when, when it has some
28:52
weight and you say, when you say no, you feel the no, it goes
28:59
down to the diaphragm and actually down to the floor.
29:02
You can, you can feel the weight as much as you want.
29:05
You don't have to raise your voice, but it's deep and it has
29:09
all the colors and, and sound. Everything in your body will
29:13
resonate with that No, right? And that is where you have to
29:18
sing you the, the, the air will resonate in different places of
29:25
your, you know, if it's, if it's high pitch, will it will
29:28
resonate here. And if it's low pitch, it's
29:30
going to resonate more here. There's mixed voice as well, but
29:33
that I don't care about that. We just need to be certain of
29:37
what you're going to say. So Despite that, I love calling
29:42
my cat, Oh my little cat, and I love you.
29:45
This doesn't mean anything because it's not connected to
29:50
anything. But if you say to your cat, and
29:53
this is something I encourage everyone to do every morning, is
29:58
say thank you to your cat. Because if you have a sincere
30:03
thank you, you're going to be using your diaphragm.
30:09
OK? So if you wake up and just say
30:12
thank you, thank you for another day is there you get that?
30:21
You know that weight on the word If you say, if you say I love
30:26
you, the same thing. Just make sure that you pay more
30:30
attention to the vowels because the vowels are the ones that
30:33
make the sound. The consonants will break the
30:36
sound. So if I if I say I love you,
30:41
there's no way you just put anything there.
30:45
But if you you say I love you, that O will have some weight.
30:53
I love that, and Jay's going to implement this more than me.
30:56
So for those of us that that really, you know, may not, may
31:00
not want to say to our cats. Right.
31:04
We are very curious about sound therapy.
31:06
I know back in the day, one of the most powerful moments we had
31:09
was learning that classical music could help calm cats, and
31:14
we had not really implemented it that much ourselves.
31:17
No, we had not really explored it.
31:18
We had just learned it and our, you know, our motto is learn,
31:21
share, grow. So I had so I did a cat tip and
31:24
this is years ago, like I want to say 20/18/2017 something like
31:27
that. It's a moment I always go back
31:29
to though. So I had recorded or I'd posted
31:33
a cat tip on on what we had learned.
31:36
And I said, you know, if you're one way to, to help your cats
31:40
getting them, you know, to the vet in the car is to play
31:43
classical music. And there was like some research
31:46
study or something that, that I was that I was citing.
31:50
And I said, so if you want to, you know, so if, if you need to
31:54
get your cat to the vet or you want to get to your cat to the
31:55
vet, try playing classical music.
31:57
And then it was I don't know how long later we were at a
32:02
conference, a cat conference, and somebody came up to us and
32:07
she said, I want to thank you. You guys saved my cat.
32:10
And we were like, oh, like, so that's awesome.
32:12
What, you know, like what we thought maybe she was using our
32:15
products or something like that. And she said you, you posted a
32:18
cat tip and you said, you said that classical music helps calm
32:22
cats so that you can take them to the vet.
32:24
And because of that, I was able to play classical music, bring
32:28
my cat to the vet and we caught his cancer before it, before it
32:31
spread, before it was too late. And I was like, Oh my God, like
32:35
that was still to this day, I get the chill bumps hearing that
32:38
because it's like, it wasn't something, you know, it was
32:40
literally just something that we, we learned and that we
32:42
shared. And it wasn't something that we
32:44
benefited from or anything like that.
32:46
It was like we, we really help someone by just sharing
32:50
information. And that was like, that was our
32:52
moment of like, we're never stopping this, ever.
32:55
And Fast forward to just this year, our Madison Grace was in
32:58
the ER and had about a pancreatitis.
33:01
And it's almost like you forget about all the tools in your
33:03
toolbox when you're going through it.
33:06
And someone messaged us on Instagram and said here is this
33:12
sound therapy for increasing appetite.
33:16
If you would like to try that with Madison because she at
33:18
first she didn't want to eat. And we used it and it worked and
33:22
it was like a YouTube video of a sound therapy.
33:27
So is it you know, what are some of your favorite ways to?
33:31
That probably has something to do with the when you're when you
33:34
said it also helps to with transitioning diets too, which
33:37
you know, because we spoke in Spain about that.
33:39
You know, that's like our passion, our passion passion
33:41
subject this year. So so is that is that you?
33:45
Do you find that certain frequencies of sound helps for
33:51
helps cats appetite or helps them want to eat a new food
33:55
better? Well, to answer that question,
33:58
there are there's different ways into sound therapy.
34:02
You have for example bioacoustics which uses natural
34:06
sounds. They measure the frequencies
34:09
that nature gives and they can, they can say that if those
34:15
frequencies can help different organs in, in the cat or in the,
34:19
in humans as well. It can also regulate the, the
34:23
circadian cycle. And there, there are many, many
34:28
ways. I, I know one here in, well, she
34:31
lives in the north of Spain and she's called sound and life and
34:35
she travels around the world recording with high quality
34:38
sound. And she, she uses as therapy,
34:42
which is a great tool, especially for clinics if you
34:44
don't want to be singing right. And, and that is for me the most
34:50
scientific I know so far, because then you have other
34:54
frequencies, like the chakras have certain frequencies and you
34:58
can, you can use the chakras with those frequencies as well.
35:01
And then you have the sulfaccio frequencies.
35:05
And, you know, there are different schools with different
35:08
sort of frequencies. And I'm, you know, I played them
35:11
all. And for me, the chakras, I would
35:16
say it worked really well. The bioacoustics is amazing.
35:21
There are even, there are some studies, even a cat recovering
35:25
from a toxicity that they get, you know, they gave him a few
35:28
days to live. And actually the cat recovered
35:31
completely from using bioacoustics.
35:36
And then the voice based sound therapy, which is the one I
35:40
like, is the one that led to the lullabies for cats.
35:44
Yes, my. About that.
35:46
Yeah, and the The thing is that when I recorded the lullabies,
35:51
somebody instead of singing them, he she simply played them
35:55
to her cat. And the cat wasn't eating as
35:58
well. And I didn't know she she called
36:01
me saying I can't believe they how they worked.
36:03
My cat wasn't eating and suddenly I play your your tunes
36:06
and and now she's eating. I was like, really, that wasn't
36:10
the point. I didn't know that could happen.
36:15
OK, we have to investigate. So now I'm into a little bit of
36:19
research. You have the you can access to
36:22
the lullabies and I'll explain in a minute what they are, but
36:25
you can access to them Spotify and if you let me know how they
36:29
affect your cat, I would love that.
36:30
I'm doing that research. Send me an e-mail telling the
36:34
story. You know, guys, we have the link
36:38
in the description here. So when we're when we're done,
36:40
go ahead and click on that and it can and it will, it will
36:43
bring you to, yeah, to the lullabies.
36:46
Yes, well, and how they were created.
36:49
The idea came through the cause of what The thing is that you
36:54
can use music therapy as a sound or or Sound of Music.
36:58
It depends. It has lyrics or not or if it's
37:00
a melody in instrumental melody or not.
37:04
But I I've tried them all and I think they all work perfectly.
37:09
The music for cats works perfectly, but I wanted to do
37:12
something where if you had nothing, if you couldn't play
37:16
music, if you, if you only had the 5 minutes on the hospital
37:21
visiting your cat, if you only had that moment where the
37:25
ultrasound is going and you have you're holding your cat or even
37:30
you know, you use a gabapentin to get it, but then they don't
37:34
recover really well. I wanted to have something that
37:37
you know as a kid you want your mom to be with you in difficult
37:41
situations. In this case, you are the mother
37:44
and you can improve. I think this can be an
37:47
enrichment as well and in the home.
37:51
Oh, I think I just got it for the first time, like the
37:55
lullabies part, like I don't, I don't know why I didn't connect
37:58
that before, but that, but that's the a great explanation
38:01
because it's, you know, like you just said, like, and I remember
38:04
when I was a kid, when I was, you know, just small and I was
38:08
sick or I was scared or something like that.
38:10
My mom would hold me and she would sing to me and she would
38:13
rock me and that would always calm me down.
38:15
Right. I mean, so many of us have, you
38:17
know, mothers or grandmothers or maybe dads or something like
38:19
that, that, that have done that, that made you feel safe, that
38:22
made you feel comfortable and that you're right.
38:25
You don't need a radio. You don't need a phone.
38:27
You don't need, you know, if you're in a vet clinic, you
38:29
probably aren't going to go, you know, turning on some music
38:32
anyway, unless you're us. We did.
38:35
But but to be able to just, you know, or in the car or wherever
38:40
you are, right. Like to be able to maybe.
38:41
I mean, so many of You Beautiful people here are rescuers, right?
38:45
They're trying to, they're trying to rescue cats or trap,
38:48
you know, trap, neuter, return. And they're trying to, you know,
38:53
transport cats or they find cats that are.
38:55
Yeah. Or they're trying to, they find
38:57
cats that are injured and like to be able to, you know, to be
39:01
able to, or our own cats right when they get sick, to be able
39:04
to hold them and sing to them. A lullaby is you don't need
39:08
anything except for yourself. Wow exactly.
39:11
And there's there's another thing when you're traveling, if
39:14
you don't, if you put play the music with your phone or even
39:19
using Spotify for example, because Spotify doesn't have the
39:22
best quality sound. There are others that may use
39:25
it, but we tend to have lower quality sounds recorded because
39:31
it's easier to have it on the phone and different devices and
39:34
that's it. So those frequencies get lost.
39:37
So you may get some effect, but imagine if you have a good
39:42
device that plays that music. So you have to carry a really
39:46
good headphones or anything that speakers anything.
39:52
So it's not always easy to have to have that at hand, right?
39:57
And you, you may get some effect, of course, but the real
40:02
effect with music and sound therapy is the quality of the
40:06
sound. And even YouTube, the YouTube
40:08
has a lot of beautiful sounds, but they are they're not well
40:12
recorded. When you use sound therapy, the,
40:14
the bioacoustic sounds, you realize that what you have, you
40:18
have at home. The YouTube videos are not the
40:21
best. It's like, Oh my God, the
40:24
difference is huge. So here you go.
40:29
A. Lot of people they, you know, I
40:31
don't know if Sally's here tonight or not, but a lot of
40:34
people are just like, they love to go to concerts.
40:36
They love to, you know, they, they prefer versus listening to
40:39
music on the radio or lexer or something, right?
40:42
They prefer to, to hear live music in person because, because
40:47
of that, because the music is so much better.
40:49
The the sounds are so much better when it's when it's right
40:52
there in person versus versus on the screen or on a radio or on a
40:57
phone. Exactly.
40:59
And and we don't we don't look at we don't look at really good
41:05
sound now it's like we like the tune, we like the music and we
41:09
don't care. But the cats are very sensitive
41:11
to that. So the idea of the lullabies was
41:15
through the science of lullabies for humans.
41:19
It was I rocking my baby. I'm doing, you know, I'm just
41:22
making feel it better and all the all the research doesn't say
41:27
in any ways that you have to be a singer or that you have to
41:31
sing. Well, you can even just do
41:33
humming if you don't want to sing.
41:35
The important thing is that you use that relaxed and you know
41:41
the breeding comes from here and not superficial, that you take a
41:45
few breaths before you do this and you are not trying to calm
41:50
your cat while you're very anxious, right?
41:53
Because it's not going to work. And you have to release all
41:57
expectations from sometimes they will react and sometimes they
42:02
don't need it and that's OK, but you need to do it very often.
42:07
And the idea was that my songs at the the lullabies have a
42:11
scientific, there's a lot of scientific background.
42:18
It's because they are not just songs, they usually very simple
42:23
songs that have a repetition. They have a, a very round
42:32
melody, melody and the the words that are used are very loving
42:40
and happy and respectful and thankful and grateful, right.
42:44
So all those things, everything is proven to be good for the
42:50
nervous system to regulate it. If you, if you want to make a
42:54
test, you can say I love, love, love many times and then say
42:59
this like for 30 seconds and you can try hate for 30 seconds and
43:04
you will, you will feel different because the words have
43:09
an intention and that that hasn't, you know, the way you
43:12
use it, the way you, you speak, even the, the music that you
43:17
hear. If you are listening to songs
43:19
of, of hatred or, or you know that they contain aggressive
43:25
language, you will have a name a different impact.
43:29
That's why also we, we like certain music when for different
43:32
moods, right. So everything is explained
43:35
there. And then the repetition usually
43:38
goes in 60 bits per minute because it's the it's, it's
43:43
trying to get a synchronicity with the heart rate of a baby
43:47
that it's relaxed. That is interesting.
43:52
Oh my God. That's why there are very slow
43:56
songs, you know repeatedly they you can that people can
44:00
memorize. It's important that also you
44:03
sing it in your own native language because it's easy.
44:08
It's easier for you to relax on your native language.
44:11
Of course, the others it may, it may be difficult.
44:15
And and the other thing would be that in cats, the normal rate of
44:23
heart, you know of relax normal heart rate, it's double.
44:28
It's never going to be 60. Of course, if you use 60, it's
44:31
going the cat is going to relax, but it gives you a broad, a
44:37
broad expect spectrum of music you can use because their heart
44:41
rate in relaxed, relaxed heart rate, it's over A120150.
44:48
You know it can be. It can be much higher, so you
44:50
can use happier songs. That's cool.
44:55
I do love though that I mean, I think that's, you know, us as a
44:58
community. I think that's something that
44:59
like every cat parent loves so much.
45:02
I mean, pet parent really in general, right, But is that you
45:05
don't you don't get any, you don't get any judgement from
45:08
your, you know, from your you can sing all day to them.
45:10
And even if, you know, if you're singing to your family or your
45:14
friends, they might be like, you know, like stick with your day
45:17
job or, you know, like that right.
45:20
But our, but our, but our cats love anything that's coming from
45:24
the heart. So you don't have to sing at a
45:26
certain, you know, a perfect pitch or you don't have to.
45:30
You know, it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to sound good to a
45:35
human. It still sounds wonderful to
45:38
your cats because they're, they're they're hearing your
45:41
energy. They're not hearing your your,
45:44
just your voice. It's the intention.
45:46
It's the intention. It's that weight of every word
45:50
that you're saying, like you mean it, like you're feeling it.
45:54
You can even hum it if you're not, if you're overthinking,
45:57
because usually if the cat is not reacting, it's because
46:00
you're overthinking. I, I, I've seen, I've seen
46:04
people trying to, to sing and they're like, they are thinking
46:08
the note they have to sing, right?
46:11
And no, you just have to feel it, make it, you know, and
46:15
again, the commercial music doesn't mean commercial singing
46:19
doesn't mean is the best singing.
46:22
So somebody can have a very commercial voice and some people
46:28
will have beautiful voice and it's not commercial.
46:31
So you know, other people will say you don't sing like and so
46:33
you're saying you're you're not good singing.
46:36
That's not true. Your voice is unique and and if
46:39
you work it with your cat that has no judgement at all, you can
46:43
improve communication with other people later on.
46:46
Yeah. Without even noticing.
46:50
That's beautiful. I love it so.
46:52
A question then as far as implementing this like I love
46:55
the the clinical application that you're talking about as far
46:58
as in high stress situations, but earlier you were talking too
47:02
about using sound therapy in a regular basis.
47:04
So it's something that we should intentionally try to make a part
47:09
of every day. Is this something that we can?
47:12
Use I think all of us have like made-up songs for our cats,
47:15
right? Like, I mean, we do, right?
47:18
We usually make a song around their name and we, you know,
47:22
sing some cheesy little song to them.
47:25
But maybe if we do it readily and do it intentionally with,
47:31
you know, good energy versus like.
47:33
Mr. Beatles. Right.
47:39
I mean, we used to have a, a, a little song that we sang to Mr.
47:43
Beatles so that we just made-up, but we both sang it.
47:47
But if we did it, if we did this on a regular basis with our
47:50
cats, that's what you're saying is that, that it, it, it works
47:53
better if you're doing it intentionally and, and often
47:56
consistently. Then it'll help.
47:59
I can give you some tips. For example, as, as we were
48:02
talking about transition, you know, there's a especially let's
48:07
say if you, if you have a cat that likes certain meats, but
48:12
they don't like others. You know that when we are
48:16
serving the food, we are worried already, you know, and, and we
48:22
are thinking he's not going to eat it.
48:24
You know he's not so so you you start to panicking before you
48:28
just set the plate wherever it is, you're already panicking so
48:33
one way and and that that makes the cat feel unsafe because
48:37
suddenly you're just putting the food and you are like, I don't
48:43
know if you're going to like on your energy they.
48:48
Up on your energy. They take it, of course they do,
48:50
is that you're trying to give your medicate the medication and
48:53
you know the cat is already hidden and he knows that because
48:56
you've been thinking about it all day and you've been showing
49:00
that energetically, right? So what I found out is that when
49:05
you, the cat needs to feel safe in order to feel good about
49:11
change. That's why I don't like the word
49:13
neophobic, because neophobic. It's not it's not actually true.
49:17
The cats actually like change. The thing is that how you pose
49:21
that change is that environment that is chaotic and it doesn't
49:25
you know, it doesn't have any, any boundaries and limits or
49:29
anything. So of course I am going to be
49:32
neophobic if that's the case, right?
49:36
But if you have a routine, if you if you create some, some
49:41
safety for a cat, some cats need to have eat in a box and some
49:45
other cats will eat next to the other one.
49:48
So you have to understand that safety and how can voice make it
49:52
happen is that can be a point. You can be a point of safety.
49:56
And there is another example for that when you sometimes you pet
50:00
your cat and then after that he will eat.
50:04
I don't know if you've ever seen this.
50:06
It's affection eaters, yeah. Yeah, we call them affection
50:09
eaters. Because food is emotional.
50:14
So if you create with voice, with singing, with music, with
50:19
whatever, anything, you create a routine that is not always
50:22
petting your cat just before they are going to eat and you
50:27
create other things like saying a word or singing something or
50:32
hamming when you're serving the food or, you know, just given
50:36
the intention of this food is great for you.
50:40
It will have an impact, of course, not the first day.
50:43
Maybe if it's a very picky cat, but especially those
50:46
affectionate eaters are looking for food that nurtures their
50:51
soul, their emotional part of things.
50:53
It's not just that what you're said.
50:55
Put it on the on the on the plate.
50:59
So that's one practical way of using it.
51:01
But then you can use it all the time instead of trying to, for
51:07
example, you have a sick cat and, and you need to give
51:10
medication or you need to handle them and you need to trim their
51:14
nails, whatever you have to do. I always tell people that if you
51:18
explain that to the cat, even with this grounded voice, the
51:24
cat is going to perceive that you are, you know, I am, I am
51:29
doing this. You need to, this has to be
51:31
done. And you can, you can say
51:33
whatever you want. You can say because my furniture
51:36
needs some love. I need this to be done.
51:41
And the content is not important is the intention.
51:45
Right. Of what you're saying OK and and
51:49
it can make it really easy and people that don't don't sleep
51:53
well. I sometimes, you know, I know my
51:56
cats want I want to sleep 10 more minutes or I want to do
51:59
something. My cats don't wake up.
52:01
I'll just say, come on, guys, just a few more minutes.
52:05
Thank you, you're great. Let's do it.
52:08
I know we can do it and they they don't, they never magnitude
52:13
to wake up or you know, or start going around and meowing, asking
52:18
or demanding for food because I'm constantly talking to them.
52:22
And even if I don't know what to do, let's say you're trying to
52:25
do something I like and you don't know if you're doing it
52:28
right. You can tell your cat I don't
52:31
know what I'm doing and just feel it.
52:36
The important thing is that you feel it and you will see that
52:39
the cat is easier to handle, easier to give medication,
52:43
everything. That's the power of the.
52:47
I love that and IA 100% believe that.
52:49
I know, like in our presentation, we talk about the
52:52
importance of our energy while we're preparing the food, right.
52:55
And talking about like when you are, when you are, you know,
52:58
feeding a good species appropriate raw diet.
53:00
For those of you guys that are raw feeders, you, you know,
53:03
probably you feel the same like you're preparing, preparing the
53:07
food is, is a little bit more time consuming, but you put
53:12
what, whatever energy you put into that food while you are
53:16
preparing it or even just putting it on the plates, right?
53:18
Like that, that is going to affect how your cats take it as
53:22
well. And I would so, so I would say,
53:25
you know, maybe we'll put that in the in the presentation that
53:29
that maybe we sing to maybe we, maybe we sing or we hum a happy
53:35
tunes while we're preparing the food to help to help our cats
53:39
better eat the the foods that we.
53:41
In the better ground, our own energy, right, because we're
53:44
doing something new. Yeah, right.
53:45
Like that's. Yeah, that's awesome.
53:48
And it's not going to be just for you.
53:50
It's not going to be just for your cat.
53:51
It's not going to be for you. This is going to help you be
53:54
grounded more often, be present more often.
53:57
Because we talk about presence, like, yeah, you need to be
54:01
present. But most of the time, we're in
54:03
our minds thinking, you know, what we have to do next.
54:06
What? Yeah.
54:07
So if you practice this, then you'll be more present without
54:13
even noticing and you'll be able to make better decisions at the
54:17
vet if you just take a moment to, to think about it.
54:23
And you're going to speak with a voice that has more intention
54:26
instead of yelling like this, you know, and, and it has so
54:31
many effects. So that's, that's what I want to
54:33
keep working on because it's a way for us to become better cat
54:39
guardians. And, and, and this also can be
54:42
used in dogs as well, of course, but I love cats.
54:48
They can use the lullabies. And this is this is the teacher,
54:52
the second teacher. Oh my God, what's his name?
54:56
Nilo like, like the well, like the river in Spanish, like the
55:01
river Nile. Oh yeah.
55:05
Beautiful boy, Beautiful. 13 years is going to be in January.
55:12
Oh my goodness. But he's been the teacher of
55:15
everything. He's he's really happy in
55:18
Mallorca because there's less noise, environmental noise.
55:23
So that's another thing. If you live in a busy city or
55:27
you have a noisy environment, you will benefit by using
55:32
especially bioacoustics for that, you know connecting with
55:36
nature sounds or if you have insomnia or anything that
55:41
doesn't allow you to sleep, you know many people will complain
55:45
about my cat doesn't allow me to sleep.
55:48
The thing is that you have a problem sleeping first because
55:51
the cat is bothering you because you are semi awake, you know, so
55:58
you can use you can use bioacoustics to relax to get a
56:03
good night's sleep. And if you look at that at her
56:07
page, you have for immune system, you have for chronic
56:11
illnesses. I've tried one time and this was
56:15
really amazing that she has like the sound of different fires.
56:20
You know, she usually goes with blessed fire from a place in, I
56:25
don't know, in a very weird place in one night.
56:28
She has meditations on the 11th of November of 2011.
56:33
So you know, dates like that or she has that.
56:36
Yeah. You know, there is an energy
56:38
content in all her sounds. And I used one time the the
56:43
fire, one of the fires and I felt warm just by listening to
56:49
the fire. I felt.
56:51
Warm and like I had like heat around me and I think.
56:56
That would be good for all of us.
56:57
And if you think about that, if bioenergetics work with cats
57:00
like that, for the cats that are, you know, in the like that
57:04
are outside that are it's, it's winter now.
57:07
Things are getting really cold. Like could we play some, you
57:11
know, and what's, what's the, what's the website to find for?
57:15
It's a sound sound on life. I'm I'm I'm trying to help her
57:18
get everything in English as well, but she has it in Spanish.
57:23
But if you contact me, I can I can guide you on which ones
57:28
because for example, for kidneys or for liver issues that fire
57:32
that keeping the warmth of the body when it's needed it, it can
57:37
be really helpful so. That's awesome.
57:42
That's awesome. All right.
57:43
We are like past. Time really past time, but
57:46
quickly, could you just kind of share what you envision you
57:50
know, like sound therapy is something that's kind of like
57:53
you said, it's very old, but what do you envision for like
57:56
the future of sound therapy? It's implementation I guess have
58:02
parents but. I am working.
58:05
On something I am working on something that I want to create
58:09
a membership where we study all this and we share as a
58:13
community, especially women to, to discuss all, all what we are
58:19
our voices, the cultural things that we have to erase from from
58:24
our ancestors and being able to communicate and be better.
58:28
Because I think if you start with your cat, then you'll,
58:31
you'll be better at life in general communication, maybe
58:35
communicating with your vet. So the extent of how far it can
58:40
go, it can improve everyone's life and it can, it can improve
58:45
the way I wish. I would love to say that in
58:48
every clinic, but this is going to be the, it's going to be from
58:54
the pet parents, you know, that we have to push it ourselves.
58:57
And I don't think any we know the, we know that classical
59:02
music, you know, reduces the amount of anesthesia and nobody
59:05
does it anyway, right? So we still need to, to
59:10
implement this in a clinic would be very difficult.
59:13
But if we get the word across and we start doing all these
59:16
things, we can provide health to our pets.
59:22
And it would be another way of doing, if you can find, for
59:25
example, this with self selection, you will, you will
59:29
have a first aid kit for your animals.
59:34
You'll understand them better you and, and you know, there's
59:38
still a lot of research to be done, but it is said that it can
59:43
I, I don't know if you heard that now there is this, this
59:47
thing is the way where you get in touch.
59:48
If, if, if you just simply get in touch if somebody's sick and
59:52
you hug them while being naked. So the skin to skin, it gets
59:57
connected, the other person instantly feels better.
1:00:01
So imagine if sound if getting, you know, getting closer,
1:00:07
getting in community, getting, you know, all these things can
1:00:10
heal. We don't know the extent of how
1:00:13
far we can go. And don't limit and don't limit
1:00:18
your manifestation because I do believe that it can one day soon
1:00:22
be in clinics as well. I hope so.
1:00:25
I would love to see it. The thing is that we need to
1:00:27
erase the the way healthcare it's, it's going, it has more
1:00:33
economical interest than healing.
1:00:36
So we need to, we need to ship the shift that first.
1:00:40
But that that starts with us the the pet parents, right?
1:00:44
Like that's where it starts. And then and and then once our
1:00:46
demand becomes that, I mean, you look at the dog food industry,
1:00:50
right? Like, like it the demand is for
1:00:53
dog parents is changing the way that the pet food industry is
1:00:57
creating their foods, right? So and so, you know, the more
1:01:02
that we, the more that we, it starts with us, it always
1:01:05
starts. With us.
1:01:07
But it it will absolutely be in clinics one day, yeah.
1:01:10
I hope so. I really hope so.
1:01:12
And I hope we, we start changing the way clinics are and be more
1:01:17
integrative and, and accepting that we don't know everything
1:01:22
and you can have you can have protocols.
1:01:25
I, I don't think we are, we're ever going to find out how far
1:01:29
our brain can go because I, I also, I already think that what
1:01:35
Joe Dispenser, for example, is doing is incredible and, and,
1:01:38
and the extent of his work is, is incredible.
1:01:41
So, and I don't think that's the limit.
1:01:44
So imagine I have no idea where we can get but every single time
1:01:52
I'm fascinated by cases that you don't understand, There's no
1:01:57
clinical explanation and you just simply played a tune or
1:02:03
simply or you got connected with nature suddenly, right.
1:02:08
And that's what I want to promote.
1:02:09
I want to promote self selection because I believe the wisdom of
1:02:13
animals and actually can help us reconnect, reconnect with what's
1:02:18
good for us. Yes, Yep, it's true.
1:02:22
It's true. Wow, Sir Amaya, you're amazing.
1:02:26
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us
1:02:28
and thank you guys so much for joining us.
1:02:31
Just, I mean, the, the information is, is just like,
1:02:35
like mine. Yeah, we could keep going for
1:02:38
hours. And so, yeah.
1:02:41
So we, we, we we have to have you back.
1:02:43
We have to have you back in our closet again.
1:02:45
Link for the lullabies and I love it say lullabies.
1:02:48
I know lullabies, lullabies. Yeah, lullabies for cats follow
1:02:54
me. I will I will like come with
1:02:57
this. So just keep my social for cats.
1:03:00
I will post things there and if you're interested in singing or
1:03:06
learning on how to, you know, properly use your diaphragm,
1:03:09
that is going to be very soon on on my community as well.
1:03:15
Yay. Oh, that's exciting, Yeah.
1:03:17
I will invite you someday so you know we get we would go.
1:03:24
Oh, awesome. All right.
1:03:25
Thank you guys so much. Yeah.
1:03:27
Thank you for staying up so late with us and and you.
1:03:31
Will I love it?