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America's First Female Serial Killer · Murder Files Unsealed

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  Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome back for another deep dive. This
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  time we're tackling a legend that you guys helped us pick,
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  Lavinia Fisher.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, this one should be interesting.
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  Speaker 1: You sent us a ton of great articles and historical accounts,
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  so we're going to really try to unpack all of it.
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  Speaker 2: Should be fine.
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  Speaker 1: Now picture this. It's Charleston, South Carolina in the early
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  eighteen hundreds.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm picturing it. Lots of trade going on, I
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  imagine you.
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  Speaker 1: Got it, bustling trade, a bit of danger.
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  Speaker 2: In the air, a little bit of a ceedy underbelly
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  to this Charleston.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could say that. And then right in the
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  middle of it all is this mysterious innkeeper named Lavinia Fisher.
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  Speaker 2: I'm intrigued already.
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  Speaker 1: The big question we're going to try to answer today
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  is was she really America's first female serial killer or.
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  Speaker 2: Or is there more to the story exactly? I mean,
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  that's what makes this so interesting to me. Right off
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  the bed. It's like the mystery starts right from the beginning.
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  You know, we know she was born sometime around seventeen
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  ninety three.
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  Speaker 1: But that's about all we know, right.
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  Speaker 2: Pretty much details about her family and her upbringing are
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  practically non existent. It's like she just appears out of
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  thin air.
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  Speaker 1: It really does make you wonder how do we make
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  sense of all this missing information.
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  Speaker 2: It's almost like when you don't know the facts. Yeah,
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  it's like it makes it super easy for legends to grow,
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  you know what I mean.
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I see what you're saying.
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  Speaker 2: Like when there's a gap in the historical record, it's
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  like fertile ground for speculations and rumors to take root.
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  So what we do know is that Lavinya she ended
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  up in Charleston, and it was a city of contrasts
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  in what way. Well, on the one hand, it was
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  this thriving port full of wealth and sophistication, but it
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  also had a darker side, a CD underbelly, you know
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  what I mean.
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely, And it.
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  Speaker 2: Makes you wonder how that might have you know, shaped Lavinia,
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  Yeah for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So we've got this mysterious figure emerging from a
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  mysterious past. That's already a great setup.
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  Speaker 2: Oh it gets even better, it does.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, tell me more.
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  Speaker 2: This is where the six mile wayfair House comes into play.
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you sent me some really interesting articles about
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  this place. It was an inn, right.
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  Speaker 2: It was, Yeah, located about six miles outside of Charleston.
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  Speaker 1: Oh wow, So you can imagine all these weary travelers,
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  you know, stopping for the night, thinking, oh, finally a
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  safe haven.
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  Speaker 2: M m except except except maybe not so safe. I mean,
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  don't forget. This was a time when highway robbery was
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  a real problem.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
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  Speaker 2: And travelers back then they often carried large amounts of valuables,
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  so they were prime targets basically.
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  Speaker 1: And so Lavina and her husband, John Fisher, they ran
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  the inn.
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  Speaker 2: Oh and the stories about what went on there pretty well, right,
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  let's just say that the stuff of legends.
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  Speaker 1: So then, is this where we have to start being
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  careful about separating fact from fiction.
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  Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely. I mean we've got to remember a lot
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  of what we think we know about Lavinia it comes
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  from these really sensationalized newspaper articles from that time period.
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  Speaker 1: Oh okay, so we're talking like historical clickbait. Yeah, basically,
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  so we need to take those accounts with a grain
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  of salt.
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  Speaker 2: Then, yeah, for sure.
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  Speaker 1: But the most popular version of the story is pretty crazy.
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  It basically says Levinya would be this charming and welcoming hostess.
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  She'd greet her guests, maybe offer them some tea, and
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  possibly lace it with something.
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  Speaker 2: Oh you mean the infamous poison tea.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a detail that's always captivated people. But again,
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  remember a lot of what we know is coming from
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  these sources that might not be the most reliable.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I gotcha. So maybe there was no poison t
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  But there's also this story about the trapdoor in.
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  Speaker 2: The end right leading down into a basement where.
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  Speaker 1: John Fisher and his buddies would.
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  Speaker 2: Be waiting, ready to rob the guests blind and maybe worse,
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  possibly even kill them.
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  Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like something straight out of a
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  horror movie.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, doesn't it.
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  Speaker 1: But this is where we run into that problem again.
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  Speaker 2: Lack of evidence.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, no bodies were ever found. Nope, no poison was
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  ever confirmed. So is this really a tale about some
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  kind of evil mastermind or is this just a case
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  of embellishment where you're taking a fairly common criminal and
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  turning them into a legendary figure.
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  Speaker 2: That's a question we need to ask ourselves for sure.
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  Speaker 1: So was Lavinia really this manipulative mastermind or was she
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  more of an accomplice.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe she was caught up in her husband's schemes. And
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  that brings up another big question, which is were the
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  Fishers really cold blooded killers.
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  Speaker 1: Like a Bunny and Clyde kind of thing, right, or were.
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  Speaker 2: They involved in something, you know, a little less dramatic.
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  Speaker 1: Like robbery rings or something.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, those were pretty common back then.
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  Speaker 1: That's true. Well that's a puzzle we're going to try
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  to piece together. But before we get to that, let's
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  talk about the moment when all of these rumors about
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  the Fishers caught up to them.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the turning point in the story.
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  Speaker 1: In eighteen nineteen, a vigilante mob confronts them at the end.
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  Speaker 2: Seems like Lavinia's charm finally failed.
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  Speaker 1: Her because she was known to be able to talk her.
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  Speaker 2: Way out of things, apparently so, but.
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  Speaker 1: This time it didn't work.
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  Speaker 2: But there was this one vigilante named David Ross okay,
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  and he managed to escape and then he alerted the authorities.
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  Speaker 1: Oh so that's how they got involved.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And when they got to the end they found
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  the fissures. They were armed, but completely outnumbered.
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  Speaker 1: So they finally searched the inn. The dew, the supposed
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  scene of all these horrific crimes and what do they find.
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  Speaker 2: Well, what they don't find is almost as interesting as
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  what they do find.
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  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
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  Speaker 2: I mean there was stolen goods for sure, and there
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  was definitely weapons which pointed to some level of criminal activity, right,
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  but no bodies, no trapdoor, really no evidence of any poison.
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  Speaker 1: T So what was that mean?
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  Speaker 2: Well, and to complicate things even more, the house was
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  burned down later on.
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  Speaker 1: We had a whole lot of the house burned down. Yeah,
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  and that destroyed any potential evidence.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. So now we're talking about a real mystery, a
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  missing childhood, a legendary inn, rumors of poison and a.
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  Speaker 2: Trap, a vigilante mob and a convenient fire.
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  Speaker 1: This is like a historical thriller or something.
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  Speaker 2: I told you. It got better. Well, even with all
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  that missing evidence, Lavina and John, they were still charged
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  with highway robbery.
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  Speaker 1: Oh wow. So even without bodies or proof of poison. Yep,
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  they were still in big trouble, big.
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  Speaker 2: Trouble, and back then that was a serious offense.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. It really makes me think about the legal system
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  back then, it seems like they were under a lot
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  of pressure to make an example out of them.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, you got all these
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  rumors flying around. The public is totally captivated by this story.
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  And on top of all of that, this was a
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  time when women in positions of power, especially women, accused
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  of these kinds of crimes. You know, it was very unusual.
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  Speaker 1: So Lavina's case really kind of challenged how society viewed women. Oh.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it really shook things up.
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  Speaker 1: So did they just accept their fate?
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  Speaker 2: Actually no, not at all. They tried to appeal the sentence, okay,
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  and get this, they even tried to break out of jail.
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  Speaker 1: Wait, they tried to escape.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, from the Old City jail in Charleston.
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  Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty brave.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, if they were really guilty, why you risk
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  it all?
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  Speaker 2: It does make you wonder maybe they really did believe
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  they were innocent.
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  Speaker 1: Or maybe they just felt like the punishment didn't fit
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  the crime would be. So they were fighter.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, at least till the very end.
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  Speaker 1: But I'm guessing their escape attempt didn't work unfortunately.
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  Speaker 2: No, and on February eighteenth, eighteen twenty, both Lavinia and
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  John they were hanged.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. So Lavinia, she was only like twenty seven or
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  twenty eight years old.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, something like that.
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  Speaker 1: And she became the first woman in South Carolina to
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  be executed for a crime other than murder.
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  Speaker 2: A pretty significant moment in history for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, it's a lot to process. But you know
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  it's right before her execution that Lavignya's story takes on
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  this almost mythical quality.
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  Speaker 2: It does, doesn't it.
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  Speaker 1: And you were really curious about Leavinya's last words.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, tell me more about that.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll get ready for this because the debate about
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  what she really said has been going on for centuries entries.
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  Speaker 2: Really okay, I'm all yours.
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  Speaker 1: So legend has it that she wore her wedding dress
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  to the gallows. Wow, And as she was standing there,
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  she said, if any of you have a message for
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  the devil, tell me now, for I shall be seeing
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  him soon.
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  Speaker 2: That's chilling, I know, right, Like you can almost picture
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  it totally.
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  Speaker 1: It's such a powerful scene. Yeah, but did she really
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  say those words?
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  Speaker 2: That's the question, isn't it.
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  Speaker 1: Because like we've seen, the truth about Lavinya is really
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  hard to figure out.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's all that sensationalism mixed in exactly. Some sources
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  say she definitely said those words, but maybe not to
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  the crowd.
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  Speaker 1: Like everyone thinks, Oh, so who does she say it to?
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  Speaker 2: Maybe to the governor who denied her pardon.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, that would make sense.
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  Speaker 2: Adds a whole new layer to her character.
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  Speaker 1: It really does. Because we think of her as this
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  cold blooded killer and then suddenly she's pleading for mercy.
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  Speaker 2: It's like we're trying to understand this real person through
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  this fog of myth and legend.
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  Speaker 1: It's a great way to put it.
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  Speaker 2: But even if those last words are made up, their
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  impact is undeniable.
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  Speaker 1: What do you mean?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, they perfectly capture the world's fascination with Lavinia Fisher,
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  this woman who refused to be silenced even when she
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  was facing death.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see what you mean. It's almost like with
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  those words, she took back control of her story.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly, like she was deciding how she wanted to be remembered.
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  Speaker 1: And that's why, even after all this time, with all
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  the unanswered questions and the speculation, right, Lavinya Fisher's story
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  continues to captivate people. She refused to be forgotten. It
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  really does make you think, I mean, would we be
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  talking about Lavina Fisher today? If she hadn't said those words.
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  Speaker 2: That's a good question. Maybe maybe not.
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  Speaker 1: It's also fascinating. But you know, one of the things
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  that stood out to me is how the lack of
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  bodies in Lavinia's story plays such a big part.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's weird, right.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, if she was really the serial killer, wouldn't
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  we have found something?
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  Speaker 2: You'd think?
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  Speaker 1: So, right, you would.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it really is the biggest hole in the
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  whole serial killer narrative. Yeah, it makes you wonder if Lavigna.
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  Speaker 1: Was just a scapegoat, a scapegoat for what.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, society was grappling with anxieties about crime
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  and morality and the changing roles of women back then. Yeah,
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  that's true, so maybe she was an easy target.
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  Speaker 1: That's interesting. Okay, So, after all this digging, what stands
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  out to you the most about Lavinia's story?
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  Speaker 2: Hmmm, that's a tough one.
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  Speaker 1: I think.
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  Speaker 2: For me, it's just how powerful her story is, even
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  with all the ambiguity. I mean, centuries later, we're still
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  talking about Lavina Fisher. We are, We're still captivated by
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  her crimes, her defiance, and all the mystery that surrounds her.
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  Speaker 1: It's true, it reminds us that history isn't just a
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  collection of facts and dates. It's like a tapestry woven
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  with all these stories and interpretation.
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  Speaker 2: And sometimes straight up lies, exactly. So it's our job
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  to kind of like unravel all those threads.
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  Speaker 1: Separate fact from fiction, right, uncover the hidden stories.
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  Speaker 2: And you know what else what Lavinia's story, even though
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  it is shrouded in all this mystery, it gives us
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  a glimpse into a specific time and place, a.
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  Speaker 1: World that was going through a lot of changes.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly, And it encourages us to ask questions, to challenge
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  what we think we know, and to consider you know,
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  different points of view.
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  Speaker 1: And speaking of different points of view, you sent some
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  amazing sources about the Old City Jail in Charleston.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, where Lavinia spend her last days.
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  Speaker 1: Can you imagine the history those walls have seen.
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  Speaker 2: It's a real tangible link to her story. It is
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  like if you could walk those halls and see the
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  cell where she was.
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  Speaker 1: Held, it would be pretty powerful.
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  Speaker 2: You'd be like connecting with the past in a way
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  that's usually impossible.
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  Speaker 1: So for our listeners out there, if you're ever in Charleston,
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  make sure you check out the old city jail.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, or maybe even take a ghost tour.
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, get a taste of that spooky Charleston history.
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  Speaker 2: Because Lavinya's story is definitely part of the city's folklore now.
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  It is like you can imagine people whispering about her
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  on these dark Charleston nights.
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  Speaker 1: Oh totally. And as we wrap up our deep dive
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  into Lavinia Fisher's world, I think there's one last thought
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  provoking question to leave our listeners with.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, hear me with it.
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  Speaker 1: What if Lavinia's story was happening today? Whoa the age
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  of social media, twenty four to seven, news cycles, viral videos.
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  Speaker 2: You know, that's a good one.
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  Speaker 1: How would her story be told?
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  Speaker 2: Hmm? Would she be a trending topic, a meme or
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  the subject of a true crime podcast? Right? Would all
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  the attention help us understand the real Lavina or would
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  it just make all the myths and legends even bigger?
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  Speaker 1: Something to think about, because in the end, Lavinia's story
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  is a reminder that how we consume an interpret information,
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  it shapes how we understand not just the past, but
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  also the present and even the future. Well said, So
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  until our next deep dive, keep those minds curious, and remember,
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  sometimes the most interesting stories are the ones that leave
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  us with more questions than answers.
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  Speaker 2: Couldn't agree more