Latest / Deep Tech Germany – AI, Robotics & Frontier Innovation by Startuprad.io™ / Biotech Powerhouse: From Marine Biologist to Life-Sciences Founder
Transcript
- WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:20.400 <v Music> 00:00:20.249 --> 00:00:23.649 <v Speaker0>Hello and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from StartupRate.io, 00:00:23.789 --> 00:00:28.109 <v Speaker0>your startup podcast, YouTube blog, and internet radio station from the Dach region. 00:00:28.369 --> 00:00:32.189 <v Speaker0>Today, I do have somebody not necessarily from the Dach region, 00:00:32.349 --> 00:00:33.429 <v Speaker0>but a neighboring country. 00:00:33.849 --> 00:00:38.169 <v Speaker0>From time to time, we sneak into other startup scenes around Germany. 00:00:38.369 --> 00:00:43.909 <v Speaker0>And this time, I would like to welcome Annik from Belgium. 00:00:45.329 --> 00:00:50.889 <v Speaker0>You are, by training, a marine biologist turned biotech investor. 00:00:51.289 --> 00:00:57.849 <v Speaker0>You were employee number three at EIT Food, built the Rising Food Stars Network, 00:00:57.849 --> 00:01:02.349 <v Speaker0>and now you lead Biotope, a top European biotech startup hub, 00:01:02.529 --> 00:01:05.809 <v Speaker0>according to Financial Times. Annick, welcome. 00:01:06.689 --> 00:01:08.409 <v Speaker1>Thank you, Joe. Thanks for having me. 00:01:09.829 --> 00:01:15.349 <v Speaker0>I'm very confident there was a lot I've forgotten. and can you do a little bit intro by yourself? 00:01:17.530 --> 00:01:20.470 <v Speaker1>Yes, I can. But to be honest, if I need to introduce myself, 00:01:20.690 --> 00:01:23.650 <v Speaker1>I always start, I'm a derailed marine biologist. 00:01:24.210 --> 00:01:31.610 <v Speaker1>So I think that's fully correct. I moved from science to business already in my PhD. 00:01:31.830 --> 00:01:36.370 <v Speaker1>I did my PhD with BISF, which is a company everybody knows, of course. 00:01:36.690 --> 00:01:39.850 <v Speaker1>And that for me was the first sparkling, like, let's do something different 00:01:39.850 --> 00:01:44.610 <v Speaker1>than just science for the science. And that's how I, from opportunity to opportunity, 00:01:44.930 --> 00:01:49.910 <v Speaker1>always through trying to follow what I think matters most, run from science 00:01:49.910 --> 00:01:51.590 <v Speaker1>all the way into investment now. 00:01:52.450 --> 00:01:56.250 <v Speaker0>Funny thing, you know what BASF stands for, BASF? 00:01:56.930 --> 00:02:00.030 <v Speaker1>No, no, I don't. I used to, but I don't know anymore. 00:02:00.090 --> 00:02:04.490 <v Speaker0>For everybody who wants to train German, it's Badische Annelien und Soderfabrik. 00:02:06.090 --> 00:02:17.010 <v Speaker0>Exactly, there you go. Okay. I personally do understand what's fascinating about marine biology. 00:02:17.270 --> 00:02:21.110 <v Speaker0>What did actually bring you to study marine biology? 00:02:21.390 --> 00:02:24.470 <v Speaker0>What were your great plans to take over the world when you started? 00:02:24.690 --> 00:02:28.110 <v Speaker0>And how did you become a biotech investor? 00:02:28.590 --> 00:02:35.570 <v Speaker1>Yes. Thanks for that. As a marine biologist, I'm not this mermaid diving with 00:02:35.570 --> 00:02:37.330 <v Speaker1>dolphins or whales or whatever. 00:02:37.630 --> 00:02:39.030 <v Speaker0>You just ruined my picture. 00:02:40.470 --> 00:02:46.310 <v Speaker1>But I did a PhD in a factory of BISF where I was working with water treatment. 00:02:46.730 --> 00:02:50.910 <v Speaker1>And the fact that they were struggling with a marine species clogging their 00:02:50.910 --> 00:02:54.170 <v Speaker1>cool water system made me a marine biologist. 00:02:54.170 --> 00:02:59.810 <v Speaker1>It's as simple as that. And as a side remark, I had my first diving experience 00:02:59.810 --> 00:03:04.210 <v Speaker1>now only in December. So I'm that far off of marine biology. 00:03:04.430 --> 00:03:10.070 <v Speaker1>So taking over the world in preservation nature was never really high on my priority list. 00:03:10.290 --> 00:03:15.410 <v Speaker1>I think I'm like many started the PhD because I like student life. 00:03:15.610 --> 00:03:19.430 <v Speaker1>And it's like the easy, comfortable transition, at least for me, 00:03:19.570 --> 00:03:21.270 <v Speaker1>it was towards professional life. 00:03:22.581 --> 00:03:28.421 <v Speaker1>However, being in that environment and then having this connection with corporate 00:03:28.421 --> 00:03:32.101 <v Speaker1>showed me like there's something much more interesting than science. 00:03:32.461 --> 00:03:36.001 <v Speaker1>I don't know if you know, Joe, but at a lot of these scientific events, 00:03:36.001 --> 00:03:41.821 <v Speaker1>you get on stage, you tell something very scientific that nobody really understands 00:03:41.821 --> 00:03:44.781 <v Speaker1>or is interested in because it's only part of a huge puzzle. 00:03:45.121 --> 00:03:49.801 <v Speaker1>And then you get off the stage again. And that, for me, was not fulfilling enough 00:03:49.801 --> 00:03:53.701 <v Speaker1>to really make a difference and change the world to a certain extent. 00:03:54.161 --> 00:03:57.141 <v Speaker1>So I finished my PhD. 00:03:57.641 --> 00:04:04.041 <v Speaker1>I became a company advisor and worked with entrepreneurs, with scale-ups, 00:04:04.141 --> 00:04:08.921 <v Speaker1>with corporates, and also with these PhDs and postdocs where I felt there was 00:04:08.921 --> 00:04:11.521 <v Speaker1>something entrepreneurial, but nobody brought it up. 00:04:12.201 --> 00:04:17.001 <v Speaker1>So that's how I very organically, from a PhD, went through a collaboration with 00:04:17.001 --> 00:04:21.461 <v Speaker1>corporates, partnering entrepreneurship, all the way up to EIT Food, 00:04:22.301 --> 00:04:25.681 <v Speaker1>where I really joined in a very early phase, as you mentioned, 00:04:25.901 --> 00:04:29.341 <v Speaker1>because that was the ecosystem to change the food system. 00:04:30.881 --> 00:04:35.281 <v Speaker0>When you were talking about staying a little bit more in the student life, 00:04:35.541 --> 00:04:41.821 <v Speaker0>I was wondering, was academia like becoming a professor, spending your whole life in there, 00:04:42.061 --> 00:04:47.361 <v Speaker0>was that tempting from some dimension, except for getting there, 00:04:47.581 --> 00:04:50.781 <v Speaker0>doing a presentation and getting off the podcast again? 00:04:51.061 --> 00:04:58.501 <v Speaker1>Yeah, no, not really. I think a lot of PhDs and postdocs will align with me 00:04:58.501 --> 00:05:01.821 <v Speaker1>that as a scientist, it's quite lonely. 00:05:02.461 --> 00:05:07.741 <v Speaker1>Running a whole PhD is not the most dynamic environment to work with, even in academia life. 00:05:07.801 --> 00:05:13.421 <v Speaker1>So I never had the ambition. I was also definitely not that good to have an academic career. 00:05:13.721 --> 00:05:18.881 <v Speaker1>And that's why in an early phase, I started to look more into this applied world 00:05:18.881 --> 00:05:21.861 <v Speaker1>where you could do something that could add value on the short term. 00:05:22.001 --> 00:05:26.441 <v Speaker1>I've never been this long term impact person in the beginning. 00:05:27.640 --> 00:05:28.140 <v Speaker0>Hmm. 00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:36.840 <v Speaker0>Tell us a little bit about EIT food and rising food stars, because when I think 00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:43.940 <v Speaker0>about food and food startups, what comes to mind are those energy bars, those hangover shots. 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:47.480 <v Speaker0>But I do believe there's much more to that. 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:54.100 <v Speaker0>And interestingly, I think very few people will ever in their life get the experience 00:05:54.100 --> 00:05:57.160 <v Speaker0>of building up an EIT program. 00:05:57.640 --> 00:06:02.440 <v Speaker0>What was like the biggest challenge to be in there and building Uprising Foodstars? 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:09.060 <v Speaker1>Yeah, to be honest, it was an amazing journey there. 00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:16.000 <v Speaker1>When I was hired, because as an employee, I think I was one of the first few 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:17.160 <v Speaker1>who really did an interview. 00:06:18.320 --> 00:06:22.080 <v Speaker1>And one person of the leadership team then said, yeah, Anik, 00:06:22.080 --> 00:06:29.060 <v Speaker1>you sparkled the interest because you were talking about working with startups and not for startups. 00:06:29.420 --> 00:06:36.020 <v Speaker1>So for me, being part of a small Belgian ecosystem, having the possibility to 00:06:36.020 --> 00:06:39.740 <v Speaker1>do something on a European level for startups was like, we can do something. 00:06:40.340 --> 00:06:46.020 <v Speaker1>The idea of EIT Food and of every EIT community is to take a problem and try 00:06:46.020 --> 00:06:47.460 <v Speaker1>to solve it with the whole community. 00:06:49.060 --> 00:06:55.480 <v Speaker1>And specifically in the early phase, this small team was so intrinsically motivated to make a change. 00:06:55.620 --> 00:07:00.200 <v Speaker1>So that was great. I think my network exploded at that moment in time. 00:07:00.280 --> 00:07:04.540 <v Speaker1>And I still work a lot with these people on a daily slash weekly basis. 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:10.900 <v Speaker1>The biggest challenge though, Joe, was the aim of every EIT community as you 00:07:10.900 --> 00:07:15.180 <v Speaker1>have a lot of big corporates, a lot of big universities who want to sparkle innovation. 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:17.960 <v Speaker1>And everybody knows that these are these 00:07:17.960 --> 00:07:21.360 <v Speaker1>slowly moving ships and change 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:24.060 <v Speaker1>things in a short period of time is not their cup of tea 00:07:24.060 --> 00:07:27.380 <v Speaker1>so bringing startups to the equation in theory 00:07:27.380 --> 00:07:31.980 <v Speaker1>was a nice thing because they could make things move faster they could sparkle 00:07:31.980 --> 00:07:38.780 <v Speaker1>this entrepreneurial drive within bigger entities however eit communities in 00:07:38.780 --> 00:07:44.260 <v Speaker1>general also come with big projects and let's collaborate all together. 00:07:44.640 --> 00:07:48.700 <v Speaker1>And then you see that a startup, specifically those very small ones in the beginning, 00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:52.140 <v Speaker1>where there was the leadership of three, maybe one or two FTEs, 00:07:52.260 --> 00:07:58.120 <v Speaker1>they're not fit for purpose to work in these bigger innovation projects to drive a change. 00:07:58.380 --> 00:08:02.960 <v Speaker1>So that for me was the biggest challenge, like two different speeds and aligning 00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:07.820 <v Speaker1>these two different entities. I always use the David versus Goliath term to 00:08:07.820 --> 00:08:10.400 <v Speaker1>align them in a way forward on the short term. 00:08:14.020 --> 00:08:21.120 <v Speaker0>And where did rising food stars come in what was uh was this a project you came 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:26.680 <v Speaker0>up with was this something you assigned or uh was this something, 00:08:28.730 --> 00:08:29.790 <v Speaker0>you pitched there. 00:08:29.790 --> 00:08:32.690 <v Speaker1>Yeah it was something that i was assigned 00:08:32.690 --> 00:08:36.630 <v Speaker1>for so the aim was let's bring these startups into this 00:08:36.630 --> 00:08:42.890 <v Speaker1>big ecosystem and the basic pieces of the puzzle were already there there was 00:08:42.890 --> 00:08:47.590 <v Speaker1>already a scouting done like these might be interesting companies to work with 00:08:47.590 --> 00:08:53.630 <v Speaker1>and the theory for me is like pick them up build them into a network and see what comes out of it 00:08:54.530 --> 00:08:57.850 <v Speaker1>However, the fact that indeed there were some challenges with the startups, 00:08:58.090 --> 00:09:00.950 <v Speaker1>over time, we changed it into a scale-up community. 00:09:01.190 --> 00:09:04.230 <v Speaker1>These companies are way better fit for purpose. 00:09:04.590 --> 00:09:08.110 <v Speaker1>Also because of the fact, and you mentioned it a little bit in the beginning, 00:09:08.230 --> 00:09:15.130 <v Speaker1>Joe, we were looking for startups making a shift into the food ecosystem. 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:20.430 <v Speaker1>And that was not going to be the next energy bar of the smoothie that was coming 00:09:20.430 --> 00:09:22.030 <v Speaker1>out of fermented ingredients. 00:09:22.550 --> 00:09:27.010 <v Speaker1>So we were really looking for companies who had a technology which had a way 00:09:27.010 --> 00:09:29.330 <v Speaker1>broader application focus. 00:09:29.710 --> 00:09:34.010 <v Speaker1>And that's why scale-ups who already had that, who know what it was to go from 00:09:34.010 --> 00:09:40.050 <v Speaker1>a company of two or three people to five or 10, were a better fit for the EIT community. 00:09:40.330 --> 00:09:46.150 <v Speaker1>And that's how the EIT Food Rising Food Stars Network ran from a startup network 00:09:46.150 --> 00:09:47.790 <v Speaker1>to now more a scale-up network. 00:09:48.030 --> 00:09:51.510 <v Speaker1>And now EIT Food, there are more than 200 FTEs. The network is huge. 00:09:51.510 --> 00:09:56.150 <v Speaker1>So I think now they cover every part of the entrepreneurial challenge. 00:09:58.430 --> 00:10:07.030 <v Speaker0>And from rising food stars, you went to create Biotope. 00:10:07.290 --> 00:10:07.810 <v Speaker1>Yes. 00:10:08.090 --> 00:10:15.590 <v Speaker0>What is the problem you are solving, you're aiming to solve when launching Biotope? 00:10:18.550 --> 00:10:21.870 <v Speaker1>For me, I always make it very... 00:10:23.392 --> 00:10:27.212 <v Speaker1>Plastic so people can see it early stage 00:10:27.212 --> 00:10:30.412 <v Speaker1>startup and mainly startups working with a technology 00:10:30.412 --> 00:10:37.672 <v Speaker1>where a lot of money is needed they are in this eternal circle and they keep 00:10:37.672 --> 00:10:41.852 <v Speaker1>on whirling around it and let me explain joe what it means you have a startup 00:10:41.852 --> 00:10:46.732 <v Speaker1>on one side you have interesting parties whether it's corporates or investors 00:10:46.732 --> 00:10:50.352 <v Speaker1>on the other side and they do not speak the same language 00:10:50.872 --> 00:10:52.572 <v Speaker1>The startup, they have something. 00:10:53.172 --> 00:10:57.932 <v Speaker1>It's small. It itches like, ooh, there might be something in there. 00:10:58.352 --> 00:11:01.892 <v Speaker1>But the party on the other side always needs to say, my God, 00:11:01.992 --> 00:11:03.552 <v Speaker1>this seems amazing. But please come back. 00:11:03.772 --> 00:11:06.812 <v Speaker1>When you do the risk a little bit, you have a bigger volume. 00:11:07.092 --> 00:11:09.332 <v Speaker1>You can show that you have some customer traction. 00:11:09.972 --> 00:11:14.072 <v Speaker1>And the startups who got excited, like, yes, there's appetite on the other side. 00:11:14.832 --> 00:11:19.572 <v Speaker1>They needed to say, great, but please give me the money and I will be able to deliver. 00:11:20.352 --> 00:11:24.252 <v Speaker1>But the big parties always say, yeah, but first deliver and then you get the money. 00:11:24.752 --> 00:11:28.612 <v Speaker1>And there were a lot of companies who could not really get out of that. 00:11:29.212 --> 00:11:34.792 <v Speaker1>And that's why with Bio2, we decided, let's see if we can build something small 00:11:34.792 --> 00:11:41.892 <v Speaker1>to really push them out of that circle and to give them the means, not only financial, 00:11:42.092 --> 00:11:48.772 <v Speaker1>but the means to be able to deliver what the next, the next, the real investors, 00:11:48.992 --> 00:11:51.012 <v Speaker1>as we call them, and the corporates are looking for. 00:11:51.192 --> 00:11:54.452 <v Speaker1>And that was the aim. That was the challenge that we were trying to solve. 00:11:57.812 --> 00:12:06.272 <v Speaker0>I see. I was also wondering, what was the biggest hurdle setting up this incubator? 00:12:06.432 --> 00:12:11.192 <v Speaker0>Because it's backed by VIB, like the Flemish Institute for Biotechnology. 00:12:13.444 --> 00:12:16.924 <v Speaker1>But there were hurdles. There were also a lot of opportunities. 00:12:17.344 --> 00:12:23.684 <v Speaker1>But so VIB is the leading life science institute here in Belgium. 00:12:24.824 --> 00:12:29.964 <v Speaker1>What the institute is really good at is spinning out our own IP, 00:12:30.444 --> 00:12:34.604 <v Speaker1>meaning that we do not spin out a huge amount of companies. 00:12:35.104 --> 00:12:41.064 <v Speaker1>We support and grow them internally for a very long time. And by the time we 00:12:41.064 --> 00:12:45.044 <v Speaker1>spin them out, they do it with a seed round of three to five million. 00:12:45.344 --> 00:12:49.984 <v Speaker1>We also do the big part in human health. So there is more 20, 30 million. 00:12:50.364 --> 00:12:52.884 <v Speaker1>And then these companies really have the fuel to crawl. 00:12:54.544 --> 00:13:02.144 <v Speaker1>The opportunity here to first look at the bright side is that by having this as a success mechanism, 00:13:02.864 --> 00:13:08.704 <v Speaker1>it was very easy with the leadership team here to explain them how that model, 00:13:08.984 --> 00:13:13.504 <v Speaker1>by making it a little bit more scalable, would also fit IP from outside of our institute. 00:13:13.984 --> 00:13:18.384 <v Speaker1>So that was the convincing of how we could do this. 00:13:18.824 --> 00:13:23.164 <v Speaker1>Also, definitely an advantage was the fact that as an institute, 00:13:23.424 --> 00:13:26.244 <v Speaker1>we're so used of de-risking very, very early stage companies. 00:13:26.584 --> 00:13:30.464 <v Speaker1>Also, that was something that was quite easy, which is not always the case if 00:13:30.464 --> 00:13:32.364 <v Speaker1>you want to deploy money in early-stage companies. 00:13:33.604 --> 00:13:39.524 <v Speaker1>The biggest hurdle for me was that although VIB as an institute is really well 00:13:39.524 --> 00:13:45.724 <v Speaker1>known in human health, it's way less known in egg and fruit and to expand that 00:13:45.724 --> 00:13:47.824 <v Speaker1>planetary health, which is now our focus. 00:13:48.184 --> 00:13:55.104 <v Speaker1>And building the brand and trying to convince startups as well as later on investors 00:13:55.104 --> 00:14:02.044 <v Speaker1>that we can and we do play a huge role in this de-risking phase, 00:14:02.284 --> 00:14:04.944 <v Speaker1>I think that was the last year definitely the biggest hurdle. 00:14:06.396 --> 00:14:09.756 <v Speaker0>You talked about planetary health. 00:14:09.956 --> 00:14:14.956 <v Speaker0>Can you give us a definition for that? What are you aiming for? 00:14:15.456 --> 00:14:17.356 <v Speaker1>Yeah, yeah. I know it's a bit of a buzzword. 00:14:20.616 --> 00:14:28.736 <v Speaker1>And I like the impact. The story is you develop something that will make the 00:14:28.736 --> 00:14:36.236 <v Speaker1>planet better or to at least to diminish the pressure on it a bit. But that entails a lot. 00:14:36.396 --> 00:14:39.516 <v Speaker1>So for us, biotech always stays the key thing. 00:14:39.716 --> 00:14:42.396 <v Speaker1>There needs to be a biotechnological challenge still. 00:14:42.636 --> 00:14:48.536 <v Speaker1>But while originally that we were looking for biotech innovations in agri and 00:14:48.536 --> 00:14:52.576 <v Speaker1>food, we now also expanded to more sustainable materials, 00:14:52.996 --> 00:15:00.296 <v Speaker1>improving health of the soil, of water, much broader ecosystems, 00:15:00.736 --> 00:15:04.776 <v Speaker1>also more digital solutions, and even to a certain extent, some hardware. 00:15:04.776 --> 00:15:10.296 <v Speaker1>But everything that has a positive impact on the planet the human as an extra 00:15:10.296 --> 00:15:13.876 <v Speaker1>thing but we're not focusing on the human health what 00:15:13.876 --> 00:15:17.416 <v Speaker0>Was the defining moment when you knew biotope would be success. 00:15:19.456 --> 00:15:23.636 <v Speaker1>I'm still waiting for that moment joe i don't know if there's ever a moment 00:15:23.636 --> 00:15:29.316 <v Speaker1>that you can say yes now it's a success uh because uh since we we only really 00:15:29.316 --> 00:15:35.656 <v Speaker1>started in 2022 which is not that long ago and it means that and our portfolio 00:15:35.656 --> 00:15:38.716 <v Speaker1>companies are aware of that we are a startup amongst startups 00:15:39.976 --> 00:15:46.456 <v Speaker1>that's also the way we like to work i think by struggling ourselves by building a product 00:15:47.076 --> 00:15:52.656 <v Speaker1>people are willing to pay for as startups are willing to work with us and take 00:15:52.656 --> 00:15:58.336 <v Speaker1>the investment with it the fact that we are also raising a fund shows that we 00:15:58.336 --> 00:16:00.256 <v Speaker1>feel a little bit the same pains that they have. 00:16:00.636 --> 00:16:05.236 <v Speaker1>So that's a principle I like. However, every time one of our portfolio companies 00:16:05.236 --> 00:16:09.856 <v Speaker1>jumps into a next phase, whether it's successful fundraising, 00:16:10.976 --> 00:16:19.116 <v Speaker1>hiring extra FTEs, being successful in grant applications, that's for me the success. 00:16:19.296 --> 00:16:22.396 <v Speaker1>That's for me showing with a few data points, this works. 00:16:23.716 --> 00:16:30.516 <v Speaker0>And as you've been saying, to de-risk the very, very early phases of startups, right? 00:16:31.016 --> 00:16:31.616 <v Speaker1>Yes. 00:16:32.116 --> 00:16:39.156 <v Speaker0>I see. We will be back after a short ad break with talking about scaling and leadership. 00:16:44.430 --> 00:16:49.810 <v Speaker0>Hey guys, welcome back to my interview with Anik from Biotope from Belgium. 00:16:50.390 --> 00:16:56.630 <v Speaker0>We've been talking about how she has been a part of EIT Food and building up 00:16:56.630 --> 00:17:00.790 <v Speaker0>Rising Food Stars and now she's with Biotope and that's what we're talking about, 00:17:01.370 --> 00:17:03.650 <v Speaker0>an incubator for biotech startups. 00:17:04.150 --> 00:17:05.930 <v Speaker0>Where are you physically located? 00:17:06.510 --> 00:17:09.250 <v Speaker1>I am physically located in Belgium, in Ghent. 00:17:09.690 --> 00:17:11.150 <v Speaker0>Ghent, not Brussels. 00:17:11.630 --> 00:17:12.590 <v Speaker1>Not Brussels. 00:17:12.590 --> 00:17:20.030 <v Speaker0>Not brussels i see you know what always comes to mind in brussels is chocolate and beer of. 00:17:20.030 --> 00:17:26.030 <v Speaker1>Course that should be a general thing when you come to belgium chocolate beer and french fries 00:17:26.650 --> 00:17:31.730 <v Speaker0>Yes they were invented there but but i have to tell you my last visit is is 00:17:31.730 --> 00:17:37.710 <v Speaker0>already some time ago but it wasn't the best experience that i ever had i caught corona oh. 00:17:37.710 --> 00:17:39.390 <v Speaker1>No in belgium in brussels 00:17:40.210 --> 00:17:45.230 <v Speaker0>Yeah. It happened. I think at the time it could have happened all over the world. 00:17:45.450 --> 00:17:46.750 <v Speaker1>Yes. No, I agree. 00:17:47.390 --> 00:17:52.950 <v Speaker0>Yes. Talking about a little bit navigating the biotech startup landscape, 00:17:53.530 --> 00:17:58.050 <v Speaker0>biotech startups often face regulatory and IP challenges. 00:17:58.330 --> 00:18:01.230 <v Speaker0>How do you help founders to overcome them? 00:18:01.350 --> 00:18:06.290 <v Speaker0>Because I do understand you need for a lot of that a lot of smart people, 00:18:06.510 --> 00:18:10.230 <v Speaker0>lawyers, tax advisors, professionals, and regulations. 00:18:10.490 --> 00:18:14.930 <v Speaker0>So that's also very expensive to have on hand as a startup, right? 00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:20.270 <v Speaker1>Yeah, I was going to say, you also need a lot of money and, unfortunately, a lot of time. 00:18:21.430 --> 00:18:25.950 <v Speaker1>So I fully aligned there. But as you say, I think it's a crucial part of the 00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:31.430 <v Speaker1>puzzle that I would not say that biotech startups tend to forget it. 00:18:31.690 --> 00:18:34.990 <v Speaker1>They tend to think that it will work out fine in the end. 00:18:36.212 --> 00:18:41.032 <v Speaker1>And if you do not have a strategy behind it, it will not. I think that's very 00:18:41.032 --> 00:18:43.192 <v Speaker1>black and white, but that's the story. Yes. 00:18:43.792 --> 00:18:50.872 <v Speaker1>But I think how we work, Joe, is we bring pre-seed companies to seed stage, 00:18:51.052 --> 00:18:55.112 <v Speaker1>meaning that by the time they raise a seed round, there can still be a lot of question marks. 00:18:55.372 --> 00:19:03.012 <v Speaker1>They don't need to have a full novel food regulation, fully paid out to maybe 00:19:03.012 --> 00:19:06.272 <v Speaker1>have an agreement on a component that will not be their end product, 00:19:06.292 --> 00:19:07.692 <v Speaker1>just stating something. 00:19:08.032 --> 00:19:15.592 <v Speaker1>So what we do is we support the startups in understanding why IP is important, 00:19:16.192 --> 00:19:21.912 <v Speaker1>to understand how to do the basic IP parts themselves, how do you search, 00:19:22.092 --> 00:19:25.932 <v Speaker1>how do you check competition and where they find their NP, 00:19:26.732 --> 00:19:28.912 <v Speaker1>what are different databases to use. 00:19:29.112 --> 00:19:33.452 <v Speaker1>And we do the same with regulatory. Do you understand how EFSA is different 00:19:33.452 --> 00:19:37.832 <v Speaker1>than FDA in the U.S.? What does it mean for the different countries? 00:19:38.172 --> 00:19:42.492 <v Speaker1>So this is a part of the learning. And then they get support by legal advisors, 00:19:42.932 --> 00:19:50.472 <v Speaker1>by regulatory experts, to together develop a long-term strategy on IP and on regulatory. 00:19:50.812 --> 00:19:55.372 <v Speaker1>And that's how we really hands-on support them, help them with the first filing, 00:19:55.852 --> 00:19:59.772 <v Speaker1>help them with mapping out what could be the different roadmaps, 00:19:59.772 --> 00:20:04.472 <v Speaker1>IP-wise and regulatory-wise, but really focus on this long-term strategy mindset. 00:20:04.792 --> 00:20:11.552 <v Speaker0>I was pretty curious how you are selecting the right founders to back, 00:20:11.752 --> 00:20:14.272 <v Speaker0>because very simply spoken, 00:20:14.552 --> 00:20:19.992 <v Speaker0>a lot of people emphasize a lot of the business plan, but I haven't met a startup 00:20:19.992 --> 00:20:24.532 <v Speaker0>where the first business plan was the reality of the successful startup. 00:20:24.532 --> 00:20:30.792 <v Speaker0>So most people say personality of the founder. What is your take on that? 00:20:31.172 --> 00:20:38.992 <v Speaker1>Yeah, yeah. I think when I started this, I still thought that people, 00:20:39.112 --> 00:20:40.892 <v Speaker1>people, people was exaggerated. 00:20:41.652 --> 00:20:44.072 <v Speaker1>It is people, people. But... 00:20:45.565 --> 00:20:50.305 <v Speaker1>I think what is for us important is that it should be more than that. 00:20:50.685 --> 00:20:56.365 <v Speaker1>So when it comes to how do we identify the right people to back is very often 00:20:56.365 --> 00:20:58.645 <v Speaker1>as an early stage investor, you do your due diligence. 00:20:58.785 --> 00:21:01.945 <v Speaker1>On paper, you have a few calls and then there's a selection. 00:21:02.525 --> 00:21:10.145 <v Speaker1>We built a specific process whereby we do a first selection based on the signs 00:21:10.145 --> 00:21:11.925 <v Speaker1>and the IP. How tangible is it? 00:21:12.405 --> 00:21:16.365 <v Speaker1>Not about the business model. as you can say, you can mold a lot around that, 00:21:16.485 --> 00:21:17.925 <v Speaker1>but really on the science and the IP. 00:21:18.625 --> 00:21:24.045 <v Speaker1>And then the ones that stand out at this part are being invited to a base camp. 00:21:24.365 --> 00:21:31.145 <v Speaker1>And a base camp for us is a three-week program, one week in person to understand 00:21:31.145 --> 00:21:32.905 <v Speaker1>what is the baseline of the company. 00:21:33.025 --> 00:21:35.285 <v Speaker1>There's a reason why we call it the base camp and not the boot camp. 00:21:35.425 --> 00:21:38.145 <v Speaker1>It's really about where are you now and where do you want to go? 00:21:39.125 --> 00:21:44.805 <v Speaker1>And this first week is an in-person week. And that is for us the key thing to 00:21:44.805 --> 00:21:48.005 <v Speaker1>learn, to understand who the people are who drive the company. 00:21:48.525 --> 00:21:52.625 <v Speaker1>So, yes, people, people, people, but we also look at the science and the IP. 00:21:54.545 --> 00:21:59.025 <v Speaker0>People, people, people, people, science, IP. Okay, understood. 00:21:59.345 --> 00:22:00.925 <v Speaker0>That makes an algorithm. Okay. 00:22:02.645 --> 00:22:09.465 <v Speaker0>How do you balance this innovation and the risk when you evaluate those companies? 00:22:09.465 --> 00:22:16.965 <v Speaker0>Because they can either work spectacularly well or go bankrupt very fast because 00:22:16.965 --> 00:22:20.005 <v Speaker0>when they don't have the right balance there. 00:22:20.725 --> 00:22:26.065 <v Speaker0>When you've been talking about how you help those founders to prepare, 00:22:26.445 --> 00:22:31.845 <v Speaker0>look at the right databases, how to search, I imagine them sitting in front 00:22:31.845 --> 00:22:36.765 <v Speaker0>of three screens with a lot of coffee mugs all around and looking, looking, looking. 00:22:38.616 --> 00:22:41.116 <v Speaker0>I think that's not too far from reality. 00:22:41.356 --> 00:22:45.076 <v Speaker1>Is it? No, it's definitely not too far off. And a lot of these sessions, 00:22:45.236 --> 00:22:48.896 <v Speaker1>by the way, we also try to do in-house here so that they see from each other 00:22:48.896 --> 00:22:52.676 <v Speaker1>that we're not the only ones struggling with a lot of coffee trying to understand 00:22:52.676 --> 00:22:54.336 <v Speaker1>and how to navigate these things. 00:22:55.696 --> 00:23:02.056 <v Speaker1>Balancing innovation and risk in the pre-seed phase is a very delicate balance. 00:23:03.896 --> 00:23:10.816 <v Speaker1>Um the i think if if we need to put a bet on that in such an early phase innovation 00:23:10.816 --> 00:23:19.696 <v Speaker1>always comes first and risk always comes second so if the innovative potential is huge 00:23:20.516 --> 00:23:27.056 <v Speaker1>and we see a business appetite then we will just take the risk but we will never go for a 00:23:28.756 --> 00:23:34.196 <v Speaker1>risk-averse decision almost when it's a low-hanging fruit that cannot make impact. 00:23:35.676 --> 00:23:42.416 <v Speaker1>So for us, innovation is key. And risk, we try to mitigate as much as possible 00:23:42.416 --> 00:23:45.296 <v Speaker1>by working with them and trying to tackle that as good as possible. 00:23:48.096 --> 00:23:55.416 <v Speaker0>I see. Let us now, after we know a little bit how your algorithm works to select startups. 00:23:56.776 --> 00:24:01.836 <v Speaker0>Let's talk a little bit what you already learned from scaling those startups. 00:24:03.836 --> 00:24:11.316 <v Speaker0>What do you wish more biotech founders understood before they seek their first investment? 00:24:12.116 --> 00:24:17.196 <v Speaker1>Yeah, I, how many can I select? 00:24:17.696 --> 00:24:22.116 <v Speaker1>I think the first one, perfect. I think the first one, As we mentioned, 00:24:22.256 --> 00:24:29.816 <v Speaker1>Joe, a lot of biotech founders love their technology very often. 00:24:30.716 --> 00:24:35.756 <v Speaker1>And one of the first lessons that we learned them is stop loving your technology, 00:24:35.756 --> 00:24:42.836 <v Speaker1>but start loving the problem that you can solve and that people are willing to pay for. 00:24:44.996 --> 00:24:47.236 <v Speaker1>Together with that comes the fact that 00:24:50.336 --> 00:24:54.656 <v Speaker1>Sometimes if i look in in my surrounding and a lot of startups that we support 00:24:54.656 --> 00:24:58.796 <v Speaker1>whether we invest in them yes or no they tend to forget that we are in a people 00:24:58.796 --> 00:25:03.936 <v Speaker1>business we mentioned people people people from the team part but also you enter 00:25:03.936 --> 00:25:08.816 <v Speaker1>your clients your investors they're also people and 00:25:10.396 --> 00:25:14.016 <v Speaker1>this overarching focus on the tech should also disappear there. 00:25:14.596 --> 00:25:19.396 <v Speaker1>So that's number two. And then the third one, I think that's one that we learned 00:25:19.396 --> 00:25:23.436 <v Speaker1>by doing is operational excellence. 00:25:24.976 --> 00:25:30.376 <v Speaker1>We still see a lot of startups who focus on this long-term at this big, 00:25:30.536 --> 00:25:33.136 <v Speaker1>hairy, audacious goal that everybody's talking about. 00:25:35.348 --> 00:25:39.568 <v Speaker1>And of course, there you are ambitious, right? You cannot change the world if 00:25:39.568 --> 00:25:43.028 <v Speaker1>you look at this marginal innovations that you want to do. 00:25:44.348 --> 00:25:49.808 <v Speaker1>But really showcasing and then working on what you have in your hands in an 00:25:49.808 --> 00:25:54.768 <v Speaker1>early phase and have this operationally nicely laid out so that indeed you make 00:25:54.768 --> 00:25:57.548 <v Speaker1>progress towards that goal instead of only selling that, 00:25:57.788 --> 00:26:03.468 <v Speaker1>that is something that would be great if more early biotech founders would understand 00:26:03.468 --> 00:26:05.988 <v Speaker1>that and implement that already in a very early phase. 00:26:07.768 --> 00:26:12.788 <v Speaker0>Can you share with us like one example, one case study of a biotech startup, 00:26:12.968 --> 00:26:14.608 <v Speaker0>Biotope, helped to grow? 00:26:15.608 --> 00:26:19.628 <v Speaker1>Yes, yes, I can. It's still very early, because together with the investment 00:26:19.628 --> 00:26:21.308 <v Speaker1>comes the support of 18 months. 00:26:21.768 --> 00:26:26.048 <v Speaker1>And the fact that we only made our first investment, not only three years ago, 00:26:26.268 --> 00:26:28.228 <v Speaker1>makes my, again, my data points. 00:26:28.368 --> 00:26:31.208 <v Speaker1>And I think that's part of our language, right? Having 00:26:31.208 --> 00:26:34.008 <v Speaker1>enough data points makes them limited but of 00:26:34.008 --> 00:26:36.988 <v Speaker1>course there are always startups that that we 00:26:36.988 --> 00:26:40.188 <v Speaker1>are very proud of and that we think make progress i 00:26:40.188 --> 00:26:47.568 <v Speaker1>can make the example of zymofix zymofix is a is by the way a company that got 00:26:47.568 --> 00:26:52.428 <v Speaker1>investment from high tech linder fund so there is a link with germany and they 00:26:52.428 --> 00:26:58.908 <v Speaker1>scale up the production of beneficial microorganisms for agricultural applications. 00:26:59.528 --> 00:27:02.308 <v Speaker1>They do it through biomass fermentation. 00:27:03.348 --> 00:27:06.608 <v Speaker1>So this is a company. It was not even a company, by the way, 00:27:06.688 --> 00:27:07.908 <v Speaker1>when they joined Biotope. 00:27:08.208 --> 00:27:16.548 <v Speaker1>It was Emil, the CEO of the company, joined together with a financial profile 00:27:16.548 --> 00:27:18.008 <v Speaker1>that he worked together with. 00:27:18.528 --> 00:27:24.308 <v Speaker1>They joined our base camp with an idea coming out of an SMB that already existed. 00:27:24.548 --> 00:27:28.428 <v Speaker1>And they said, you know what, we can use any waste manure in this case, 00:27:28.608 --> 00:27:32.128 <v Speaker1>which is a huge problem in Belgium, but not only in Belgium. 00:27:32.328 --> 00:27:37.948 <v Speaker1>And we can turn this manure into something sterile that can have added value for agriculture. 00:27:38.868 --> 00:27:42.848 <v Speaker1>So as I mentioned, they came in, not even a legal entity yet, 00:27:44.168 --> 00:27:52.428 <v Speaker1>1.2 FTEs, white male young guys, which does not align also with the diversity 00:27:52.428 --> 00:27:54.048 <v Speaker1>angle that we are focusing on. 00:27:54.048 --> 00:28:01.408 <v Speaker1>But now in this less than two years, they managed to grow their team from 2 to 14. 00:28:02.028 --> 00:28:09.128 <v Speaker1>They raised a successful seed round with some really impressive family offices. 00:28:09.428 --> 00:28:17.168 <v Speaker1>They were successful in the EIC accelerator and they had this... 00:28:18.857 --> 00:28:22.537 <v Speaker1>I think maybe they were a little bit, even the other way around than what I 00:28:22.537 --> 00:28:25.557 <v Speaker1>mentioned before, they were operationally amazingly excellent, 00:28:25.557 --> 00:28:29.637 <v Speaker1>but maybe their ambition was not ambitious enough. 00:28:30.437 --> 00:28:34.917 <v Speaker1>And now they have grown in that. So I think for me, that's a great case study, 00:28:35.057 --> 00:28:37.997 <v Speaker1>how this company, not only by investment, but also by grants, 00:28:38.117 --> 00:28:42.337 <v Speaker1>can grow over time in a very rapid pace and hopefully can make a significant impact. 00:28:45.757 --> 00:28:53.337 <v Speaker0>I see. um i was when you talked about like your diversity goals can you tell 00:28:53.337 --> 00:28:57.257 <v Speaker0>us how diverse your current cohort is yes. 00:28:57.257 --> 00:29:02.617 <v Speaker1>I can uh with pride by the way because 85 percent of our portfolio companies 00:29:02.617 --> 00:29:03.957 <v Speaker1>have a mixed founding team 00:29:03.957 --> 00:29:07.337 <v Speaker0>That is good um 00:29:07.337 --> 00:29:13.057 <v Speaker0>we've been coming back a little bit to funding many founders struggle with raising 00:29:13.057 --> 00:29:19.057 <v Speaker0>the next funding round coming out of of your program you have the first funding 00:29:19.057 --> 00:29:22.857 <v Speaker0>round and then usually there's a problem next funding round what is your best 00:29:22.857 --> 00:29:24.857 <v Speaker0>advice for them yeah yeah. 00:29:24.857 --> 00:29:30.517 <v Speaker1>I think there joe these days are worse than ever if you want to raise i think 00:29:30.517 --> 00:29:36.517 <v Speaker1>a lot of companies will agree with me on that and for me there the main advice 00:29:36.517 --> 00:29:40.717 <v Speaker1>is to be Be realistic in the timeline. 00:29:41.137 --> 00:29:46.197 <v Speaker1>Be realistic in understanding how long it takes not to raise only, 00:29:46.377 --> 00:29:48.217 <v Speaker1>but to get money on your bank account. 00:29:48.877 --> 00:29:54.117 <v Speaker1>So we try to challenge our startups by very often they said, 00:29:54.257 --> 00:29:57.557 <v Speaker1>we're going to open our seat round in May or in June, whatever. 00:29:57.917 --> 00:29:58.877 <v Speaker1>There's this time frame. 00:29:59.970 --> 00:30:03.570 <v Speaker1>And then if you ask them, but, okay, when would you need money on your bank 00:30:03.570 --> 00:30:05.650 <v Speaker1>account to keep on going? 00:30:06.150 --> 00:30:06.870 <v Speaker0>In August. 00:30:07.170 --> 00:30:10.610 <v Speaker1>And very often the answer is, yes, August or even June or July itself. 00:30:11.510 --> 00:30:18.550 <v Speaker1>And for me, that's important. Be realistic on when you need money and then try to count backwards. 00:30:18.850 --> 00:30:23.610 <v Speaker1>And not say I will open and everybody will be so enthusiastic that this will come by itself. 00:30:25.830 --> 00:30:32.610 <v Speaker0>We've been talking about the diversity on biotech you you emphasize backing 00:30:32.610 --> 00:30:36.530 <v Speaker0>diverse founders why is this important in. 00:30:36.530 --> 00:30:41.930 <v Speaker1>Biotech for me it's important everywhere i think specifically in the early startup 00:30:41.930 --> 00:30:46.570 <v Speaker1>phase and and maybe in tech a bit more than than in in some other fields 00:30:48.270 --> 00:30:53.070 <v Speaker1>there is this balance which is not how the world looks like right 00:30:54.710 --> 00:31:03.150 <v Speaker1>and I think for me diversity is key to innovation if you have if you limit who 00:31:03.150 --> 00:31:08.490 <v Speaker1>can contribute to innovation you will also limit the amount of solutions that 00:31:08.490 --> 00:31:12.450 <v Speaker1>will get out there and for me it's a given to have diversity. 00:31:12.770 --> 00:31:16.590 <v Speaker1>And that can be diversity in every aspect. 00:31:17.310 --> 00:31:22.610 <v Speaker1>So it's key. I think even if we see a full male or a full female team, 00:31:22.750 --> 00:31:25.450 <v Speaker1>one of the questions is, how are you going to solve that? 00:31:29.310 --> 00:31:34.330 <v Speaker0>How do you see the biotech startup ecosystem evolving in the next five years? 00:31:36.195 --> 00:31:44.795 <v Speaker1>Quite positive. It's not the easiest ecosystem to be part of. 00:31:45.055 --> 00:31:53.595 <v Speaker1>And I always admire these brave entrepreneurs who really want to put a technology 00:31:53.595 --> 00:31:57.855 <v Speaker1>into practice to improve what we have here. 00:31:58.755 --> 00:32:03.715 <v Speaker1>But the good thing is, at least in Europe, is that the European Commission has 00:32:03.715 --> 00:32:04.775 <v Speaker1>also acknowledged this. 00:32:05.235 --> 00:32:13.575 <v Speaker1>There is now this wanting to build the future with nature within the European 00:32:13.575 --> 00:32:16.195 <v Speaker1>Commission, and that will definitely boost biotechnology. 00:32:16.815 --> 00:32:20.015 <v Speaker1>I think there we do have an added value. 00:32:20.395 --> 00:32:24.415 <v Speaker1>On the other hand, the difficult financing climate, we already elaborated on 00:32:24.415 --> 00:32:28.655 <v Speaker1>it, that will again have an impact on the other side. So I'm still hopeful. 00:32:28.875 --> 00:32:33.415 <v Speaker1>I think it will grow, but it will stay a very difficult field for a startup 00:32:33.415 --> 00:32:36.315 <v Speaker1>to easily navigate and grow in for sure. 00:32:38.995 --> 00:32:44.075 <v Speaker0>I would like to ask you a few more very short questions because we're already 00:32:44.075 --> 00:32:46.515 <v Speaker0>running around 30 minutes of recording time. 00:32:47.155 --> 00:32:52.235 <v Speaker0>What is one biotech trend people are underestimating? Short answer. 00:32:52.695 --> 00:32:57.515 <v Speaker1>Yeah. Um, biotech that can be of added value in restoring health. 00:32:59.415 --> 00:33:02.655 <v Speaker0>What is the best piece of advice you ever received? 00:33:04.175 --> 00:33:10.575 <v Speaker1>Oh, I think for me, that was not to spend too much time out of my circle of 00:33:10.575 --> 00:33:12.815 <v Speaker1>influence. Stick at what I can impact. 00:33:14.275 --> 00:33:17.335 <v Speaker0>If you weren't in biotech, what industry would you be in? 00:33:18.735 --> 00:33:22.515 <v Speaker1>I would already have changed my studies. I think I would be a veterinarian, 00:33:22.755 --> 00:33:24.955 <v Speaker1>no industry at all, working with animals. 00:33:26.295 --> 00:33:28.455 <v Speaker0>One founder trait that guarantees success? 00:33:29.015 --> 00:33:33.175 <v Speaker1>Oh, listening, for sure. Listen instead of talking. 00:33:35.075 --> 00:33:36.815 <v Speaker0>Like listeners to podcasts. 00:33:38.755 --> 00:33:41.875 <v Speaker1>For example, but also really deep listen, Joe. 00:33:42.115 --> 00:33:46.155 <v Speaker1>I think you can acknowledge that. Not just listening while you're in the car 00:33:46.155 --> 00:33:49.615 <v Speaker1>and driving, really listening to what it means and how it can add value to you. 00:33:49.615 --> 00:33:52.335 <v Speaker0>What is your go-to productivity hack? 00:33:52.575 --> 00:33:56.555 <v Speaker1>At this moment, meeting free day a week. 00:33:58.675 --> 00:34:03.835 <v Speaker0>I actually also implemented this two days where only a very, 00:34:03.855 --> 00:34:07.555 <v Speaker0>very few people can book some meetings with me and it helped me a lot. 00:34:07.735 --> 00:34:09.735 <v Speaker0>That's why you do all the stuff. 00:34:10.435 --> 00:34:15.495 <v Speaker0>You usually don't do administrivia, tax filings and all that stuff. 00:34:15.495 --> 00:34:21.055 <v Speaker0>That's basically where I have this all connected. 00:34:22.275 --> 00:34:28.675 <v Speaker0>I even get together in an online hangout together with a friend and we call it the hour of the skunk. 00:34:28.815 --> 00:34:31.975 <v Speaker0>It's when we do all the stuff nobody wants to do. 00:34:34.305 --> 00:34:43.585 <v Speaker0>Before we leave right now, final advice, what's the one key takeaway you want 00:34:43.585 --> 00:34:47.585 <v Speaker0>biotech and agri-food founders to remember? 00:34:49.465 --> 00:34:53.385 <v Speaker1>For me, it's something that we hardly touched upon. 00:34:53.785 --> 00:34:58.725 <v Speaker1>As a biotech founder, do not only focus on diluted funding, meaning investment. 00:34:59.365 --> 00:35:03.445 <v Speaker1>Definitely also explore grants as undiluted one. 00:35:04.105 --> 00:35:08.265 <v Speaker1>The match of both are ideal, not one, not the other. Try to match them together 00:35:08.265 --> 00:35:10.125 <v Speaker1>in your ideal financial strategy. 00:35:14.645 --> 00:35:19.605 <v Speaker0>Now a lot of people know you. Where can they learn more? Where can they follow you? 00:35:20.325 --> 00:35:25.985 <v Speaker1>I think the easiest is LinkedIn as well. Myself, as Biotope by VIP, 00:35:26.245 --> 00:35:27.925 <v Speaker1>we're quite active on LinkedIn. 00:35:28.265 --> 00:35:31.865 <v Speaker1>So we have a website, but everything goes through a quite static thing. 00:35:31.865 --> 00:35:35.325 <v Speaker1>LinkedIn shows how we work as a dynamic team. 00:35:36.985 --> 00:35:41.025 <v Speaker0>Anik, thank you very much. Everybody else, if you enjoyed this episode, 00:35:41.225 --> 00:35:44.345 <v Speaker0>don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to StartupRate.io. 00:35:44.605 --> 00:35:48.885 <v Speaker0>We'll be back with more insight from top founders and investors. 00:35:49.145 --> 00:35:52.645 <v Speaker0>And Anik, somebody like you, thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you. 00:35:53.365 --> 00:35:55.625 <v Speaker1>It was a pleasure being here, Joe. Thanks for having me. 00:35:55.865 --> 00:35:57.025 <v Speaker0>Have a good day. Bye-bye. 00:35:57.425 --> 00:35:58.485 <v Speaker1>You too. Bye-bye. 00:35:59.120 --> 00:36:28.928 <v Music>