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Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 7) (8/4/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: back in to the Kathy Ruhmler transcript from her trip
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: to Congress. Mister Submaranium, I may have missed this, but
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: were you ever Jeffrey Epstein was never a legal client
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: of yours in any way, Miss Rumler. He was not questioned?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: So you never had any kind of agreement with them
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: or an engagement? Answer? I did not. Question did you
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: ever receive any compensation from him? Answer? No? Question did
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: you ever receive any cash from him or any transfer
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: money transfer from him? Just gifts? Answer? Yeah, I did
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: receive gifts from him, but I did not receive compensation.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Question but not any money from them? And then did
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: you ever you weren't representing them, But did you ever
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: attend any of his court proceedings? Answer? As we discussed,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I was present, you know, as a member of the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: public at his are in July of twenty nineteen. Question
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: thank you and apologies if this has already been asked.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But the reason for that was because of your friendship
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: or was there a reason for you attending that? Answer?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: The reason was this is someone that I had dealt
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: with over you know, the prior period. I mean the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: prior you know, five year period, and he was he
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: was and remained at the time, well up until that time,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: a primary advisor for an important client of mine, and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I wanted to understand exactly, you know, I wanted to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: understand what was going on and what he was charged
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: with and what the conduct was. And I anticipated that
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: my client would also want to understand that. Question do
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: you believe he ever used the relationship you had with him?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not a friendship, I guess a business relationship.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Perhaps when reaching out to other people. We've heard from
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: other folks that he would use the name name drop essentially.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Do you feel that that happened to you? Answer? I
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: didn't know that at the time, but I know now
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: because I've seen, you know, references in documents that have
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: been released where he name drops me. But I didn't
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: know he was doing it at the time. Question and
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I apologize if this was already asked, But were you
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: aware that you were designated as an executor of his estate? Answer?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I learned that later that I was listed as a
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: backup executor. Question did you consent to that? In any way. Answer,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't know about it. Question okay, so there was
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: never a conversation about this answer with Epstein? Question or anyone.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Answer I don't remember having a conversation with Epstein about it.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I was surprised when I saw the document when it
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: was released last year. Question have you done anything with
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: his estate? Gets cut off by Rumler? No association? Answer no.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Question when was your name removed? Answer? I don't know exactly,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: but that was in a draft That was, you know,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: a draft document, and the final document does not. I'm
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: not identified. Question when did you learn about your name
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: being an executor? Rumler? Again, I believe the document was
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: provided to this committee and then made public. I believe
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty five. Question do you have any sort
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: of speculation as to why your name or you were
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: named as an executor? Answer? My only speculation is that
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I'm a lawyer, and I think someone who believed to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: be an honest person. Question okay, that's all I have.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Question redacted? Did you ask to be taken off the will? Answer? No,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: mister men if he asking questions now, good afternoon. I
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: was kind of struck by your statement here that you
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: and mister Epstein only had a professional relationship. You know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: since I've been sitting here, we've seen a number of
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: emails in twenty fourteen where he says to you, girl, careful,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I will review an old habit. In twenty fifteen where
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: you say to him, darling, I'm not one of your things.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen where he says that Griffin may be
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: interested in women and you say, I ain't. No affirmative action,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: so that's an unprofessional way of having a conversation. He says,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I meant romantically and new reference Russians, and then it
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: all culminates in twenty nineteen when he says, I very
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: much appreciate your friendship. So your statement here today is
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: that you all weren't friends. Roumler, No, I didn't say that.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I said I knew him professionally, and I say friendly
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: in that context. But the foundation of my dealings with
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: him were was that I was a lawyer in private practice,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: and that's why he dealt with me, and that's why
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I dealt with him, And in that context I was
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: friendly with him. And I believe this effort or attempt
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: to create a binary construct you're either friends or you're
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: a professional, is just not real life, and there are
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: you know, you probably you're working with other members as
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: a professional relationship, but you're probably friendly with him too,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: And that's the way it was with him. But again,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a number of personal friends who I
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: spend time with on the weekends. We go out to dinner,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: go to concerts, we might go on vacation, we might
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: go to a spot together. And those are the people
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: who I count as my friends. So I have tried
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: to be as precise and descriptive as I can about
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: really the nature of my interactions in dealing with them,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: mister Menifee, So more of a hybrid situation. I practiced
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: at a large law firm too. I never called anybody
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: darling in a communication, So this would be more of
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: a hybrid situation where maybe not completely professional, maybe not
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: completely personal. Answer. What I would say is I was friendly.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I knew him professionally, I was friendly with them,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, with respect. You may not like the
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: words I used, and as I said before, I regret
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: it that I even knew this guy much less was
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: emailing with him. But I tend to be a pretty
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: casual person. I sometimes am a bit irreverent. I'm sometimes
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: a bit sarcastic, and those references that your appointing to
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: are an example of that. Mister Menefee, I'm introducing what's
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: marked as my already exhibit G. It begins with bates
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: number EFTA zero two six one zero seven seven nine,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: And we have copies that are being passed around now
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: bottom of page one, going into page two. And this
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: is an email from you dated December sixteenth, twenty eighteen.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: The subject line is my edited version. Am I capturing
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: that correctly? Answer? Yes? Question? So it looks like that
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: you edited a draft written article written by mister Epstein's
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: lawyer Ken Starr. Is that this answer. I don't recall
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: who drafted who drafted this originally, but I was asked
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: to look at it. But again, I believe this was
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: something that was going to be provided in response to media.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: It was a media response and I was asked to
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: look at it to either provide my thoughts question. So
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: EFTA zero two six one zero seven seventy nine reflects
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: a statement for mister Epstein's benefit that you edited answer.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: It was what I understand that was being contemplated here
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: was that I don't remember the specifics, but there were
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: allegations in the media that mister Epstein had received the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: so called sweet Art deal in Florida, arising you know,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: from the federal and state prosecutions. And so this was
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: contemplated by the media response that would be ultimately signed
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: or authored by his attorney, of which who I was
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: not one? Mister Menifee. Question, so, can we look down
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: at the bottom of page two, the last full paragraph,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: So the second to last paragraph on the page there,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the second to last sentence starts with Jeffrey accepted full
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: responsibility for his conduct. Do you see that? Answer? I do? Question? Okay,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: the last sentence on the page for over ten years,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: that being mister Epstein has lived a good and all
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: abiding life. Do you see that answer? I do. Question.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Turn the page the final paragraph. We're looking at the
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: third sentence. It begins with but Jeffrey an exemplary employer.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Do you see that answer? I do? Question? So, were
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: you trying to change the public's perception of mister Epstein
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: in this document? Answer? No, Again, what this was was
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: something that had been drafted by one of mister Epstein's
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: lawyers to respond to suggestions in the media at the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: time that mister Epstein had received the so called sweetheart
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: deal in Florida, and that the reason what I recall
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: during this time is that the media implication, or actually
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the media assertion, was that the sweetheart deal was the
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: result of something of undue influence or some type of corruption.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: And this was intended to be a response authored by
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: his lawyers who were involved in that very resolution, setting
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: forth the facts as they understood it. And I was
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: not involved in that investigation in any way, shape or form,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: and I was just asked to read it and give
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: my thoughts for sort of tone and style. Question, But
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: as you sent this back, did you believe at the
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: time that mister Epstein had accepted for responsibility for his
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: conduct and that he had lived a good and law
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: abiding life in the preceding ten years. Answer at the time, Yeah,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: that's what I understood. Question Do you believe that today? Answer? Today,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: we have a very different understanding. And again, what I
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: know is what he indicated in July of twenty nineteen,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: and that those prosecutors had presented evidence to a grand jury.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: The allegations were not proven, but they certainly presented evidence
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: to a grand jury. And a grand jury agreed that
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: there was evidence that he had intentionally enticed and recruited
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: miners for commercial sex. That is a very different, very
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: different set of allegations than I understood he had that
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: there was evidence of when he resolved this case in Florida. Question. Okay,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: mister Lynch, let's pick up right there. However, as you
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: indicated earlier, you know of mister Epstein's offenses, he was
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: a registered sex offender from those previous offenses Ms. Rumler,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: that's right, question by mister Lynch, which are very very serious.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: One of the other aspects of this, again focusing on
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. During the investigation, we find
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: people who are very very close to Jeffrey Epstein, friends, indeed,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: co workers who work several feet from him, yet when
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: they come before the panel, they didn't know him. He
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: was a stranger. And you know, reading all these emails,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: as my colleagues have already identified, you know, their references
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: to you, calling them darlin uncle, Jeffrey sweety and then,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: which would indicate a much closer relationship. And also you
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: may call it humor, but dismissing his offenses by saying
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: referring to Jeffrey's type of massage, which refers back to
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: his abuse of those younger women for which he was
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: a registered sex offender. There's a connection there as well
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: as when you sort of dismiss you dismiss those offenses
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: by joking about it, you know, joking about the Russians
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: or your young things or victims rights. My ass sort
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: of dismissing the attorneys and the legal team who are
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: trying to defend the accusers and the victims. Is that
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the way that you gained his trust? Answer? I appreciate
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: that question, and I understand why. You know, sitting here
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: today in twenty twenty six, the emails could come across
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: as if there's a callousness to the victims. That's not
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: what I intended at the time, and it wasn't my
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: state of mind at the time. I feel terrible that
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: he victimized women and girls. And you know, if I
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: could have done anything, travel back in time stop them
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: from doing that, I would like to think I would have.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: And you know, he clearly lied to me. I think
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: he lied to a lot of people. And as I said,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I regret you know, ever knowing him much less you know,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: emailing with them. But I think one of the things
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that's important to or I would ask you to at
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: least try to understand from my perspective, is that you know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: I had a very different understanding of the conduct at
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the time when I was joking or seemed to be joking,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: and I certainly never intended to be insensitive. Mister Lynch,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: you knew he was a sex offender though a registered
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: sex offender Rumler, Yes, I did. I did, Lynch. Let's
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: move on Rumler again. As I said, I regret dealing
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: with him, much less emailing with him. Mister Lynch understood. So.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Leon Black, he's the former CEO of Apollo Global and
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: a longtime friend of mister Epstein's. During his transcribed interview
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: before this committee, he mentioned your name in a list
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: of people he claimed to have met through mister Epstein.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Do you believe that it's accurate? Answer that he met
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: me through mister Epstein. Question that he met he said
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: during his he mentioned your name in a list of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: people that he claimed mister Black claimed to have met
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: through Epstein. Answer, Yeah, mister Epstein did introduce me to
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: mister Black. Question Okay, when did you first meet mister Black. Answer,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I don't recall what year it was. Question arrange between
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: answer probably in the two thousand and fourteen twenty fifteen timeframe.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Question I see, what was the frequency of your interaction
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: there between yourself and Epstein and mister Black. Answer I
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: only recall meeting mister Black on two occasions. And what
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein would typically do, as I said, He'd come
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to New York where he didn't he had a house,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't his residence. He'd come into New York
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: and he would set up a bunch of meetings with people,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: which he would hold in his dining room at a table.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Believe it or not, that's even bigger than this one.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: And so, for example, we're coming to a meeting at
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: two o'clock, that was my scheduled time to meet with them.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I would, you know, sit in the secretarial office space
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: until such a time as mister Epstein you know, was
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: ready for the meeting with me, and he would, you know,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: typically have the person who was coming into the meeting
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: in this example me at the same time that the
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: person he was meeting before was exiting. And so in
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: that context, that's where I met mister Black. Question, Okay,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: did mister Epstein ever talk to you about the nature
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: of his dealings with mister Black? Answer? I understood they
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: had a business relationship, but I didn't know any more
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: details than that. Question. Yeah, what in particular business? Answer No,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I didn't understand the details of their business relationship. Question
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: were you ever aware of any abuse allegations against mister Black?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Answer not that I can. I know there has been
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: some litigation subsequently, meaning you know, after Epstein, you know, died.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: In more recent years, there have been mister Black has
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: been involved in some civil litigation. I'm aware of that.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Question What about affairs? Were you ever aware of mister
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Black being involved in any affairs? Answer? I don't remember
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: at the time. I know there have been allegations again
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: in the media covering civil lawsuits or civil lawsuits that
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: a leg an affair. Question I see. And were you
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: ever aware of mister Black requiring women to sign non
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: disclosure agreements in connection with any of that litigation? Ms Rumler,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I don't have any knowledge of that, mister Lynch. Okay,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: that's all I have. All right, folks, We're gonna wrap
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: up right here and in the next episode, dealing with
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: the topic. We're gonna pick up where we left off.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: found in the description box.